Werewolf II - Flight to Hawthorne Manor

[KevinNU7]

From two days ago Just in case I get eaten tonight here's a brief run down of who I think is a wolf:

Swaggs - He was on my suspect list before tonight's vote and the vote simply confirmed it. The very weird switch-unswitch move seemed contrived and meant to imply indecision, when I'm sure his decision was made well in advance. Also commented on stressing about being eaten, just like Lathum. I think it's a ruse. None of the villagers seem to comment about that aspect, since it's a fact of life for them.

KWhit - Jumped to defend Lathum from Jon and also tried to deflect attention onto NTNDeacon, all in the same post. Also previously tried to indict deacon. His attention on deacon is the reason why I don't think deacon is a wolf.

I really think it might just be these two remaining, unless one of the non-voters is also a wolf. Order of viewing, lynching for me would go Swaggs then KWhit.

Further reason for me to remove my vote against Desundo, I have to say I am really believe his bodyguard statement now.

[Desnudo]

All right, I have to own up to making a mistake in voting for Kevin. I felt that my logic was sound in voting for you. But looking back through your posts, I can see that you were on Lathum before Jon mentioned anything. Unless that's some sort of game you all played, or you are the cursed villager, it doesn't make sense. Crikey.

Unvote Kevin

[KevinNU7]

Kevin, before last night the only one of the viewed people that could be cursed was Nequa. I think like others, Jon was targeted last night. So that would mean that the cursed was not viewed ever.
ANy care to try and validate this theory?

[Mustang]

Well, I see Barkeep so.. maybe we will get some resolution...

[Mustang]

ANy care to try and validate this theory?

Umm, I would but, I'm missing the theory. NTN always confused me anyways.

[KevinNU7]

Well if we assume that the Cursed was attacked by the wolves one night and became a wolf then he could be the last remaining wolf. I'm jsut wondering if ntn's logic that Nequa was the only one in a position to be attacked in a cursed situation true. Remember nequa is barkeep

[Mustang]

If NTN was referring to Jon being targeted by the Seer, that was impossible since Jon was the seer.. :confused:

[Barkeep49]

I am very sorry to see Airhog and Eagle go. I thought for sure Witt was going to come after me if he was the brutal wolf. I've long been suspicous of Kevin, but am not quite ready to cast a vote in that direction. Let me go back and look at the evidence to see what we've got.

[Mustang]

Kevin unvoted then leave for the night now?

[Barkeep49]

Oh wow. I didn't see that once again the spotlight had been turned back to me. I think that we have to assume that the cursed villager was turned wolf in one of the first two days. I was just about ready to let Kevin off the hook, but now he is trying to repeat KWhitt's attempts to get me killed which raises my suspicions.

My sticking point right now for Kevin is that he was the first to suggest KWhitt be killed, before any other votes had been cast. Now we know that Whitt is the brutal wolf so if the wolves assumed that a wolf was going to be killed that round it makes sense for Whitt to be the one as he gets to take a villager with him. But I do not think it was obvious at all that we were going to go for Swaggs like we did.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm going to have to go back and do some looking at Mustang.

[Desnudo]

I'm heading out for the night so I'll put my vote in before I go. Had I bothered to look through Kevin's initial posts before voting, coming out as the bodyguard probably would not have happened. I was nearly certain based on recent posts that he was the wolf. Unless he is the cursed, I now believe I was wrong. I'm sure the decision to announce myself will be critized when we look back at the end game. In retrospect, it was a mistake in judgement.

In any case, the only other clue I think we have at this point is Barkeep's tie vote for KWhit. It could be chalked up to him being new to the game, and/or feeling very strongly about KWhit's guilt. So it's not a definite, but it's the only thing I have to go on. It's also possible that he wanted a tie and no kill, since Peregrine had announced it. It's possible that either Mustang or Kevin got attacked later and was the cursed one. A lot of things are possible, but two things that are definites are that I'm definitely getting eaten tonight and the game is over if we're wrong.

I vote Barkeep

[Barkeep49]

Ok now looking back seeing that it was clear that Swaggs had a great deal of suspicion on him before voting even opened I think Kevin made a smart tactical move by trying to get KWhitt, the brutal wolf, voted out rather than the regular wolf. Therefore, I am going to go with what has been my longstanding suspicion and Vote KevinNU7

[Barkeep49]

In any case, the only other clue I think we have at this point is Barkeep's tie vote for KWhit. It could be chalked up to him being new to the game, and/or feeling very strongly about KWhit's guilt. So it's not a definite, but it's the only thing I have to go on. It's also possible that he wanted a tie and no kill, since Peregrine had announced it. It's possible that either Mustang or Kevin got attacked later and was the cursed one. A lot of things are possible, but two things that are definites are that I'm definitely getting eaten tonight and the game is over if we're wrong.

I vote Barkeep

Let me get this straight. I am being criticised for voting for a wolf rather than an innocent? Think about it from a wolf's persepctive. Would a wolf rather have a tie, and no one killed, including the wolf, or have one less villager, and thus be closer to winning the game, as would have happened if I had voted for anybody but KWhitt? I argue that having one less villager is the right answer. NTN was innocent an KWhitt was guilty. Why should I be attacked for having perceived things correctly? Was I strongly confident about it? No. But I was confident enough to risk having no one be killed rather than an innocent villager. The easy route would have been to have voted for ntn or Kevin. Instead I tried to do what I thought was right. It's someone switching at the last moment, as YOU did, that is far more suspicious.

[Mustang]

Let me get this straight. I am being criticised for voting for a wolf rather than an innocent?

A switch was definitely needed to avoid giving a tie to the wolves. A tie would have helped the wolves because it there would have been no lynching the wolves would have gotten a free kill and then we would have redone the voting and then someone would have clearly been lynched. It is just natural to try look at the person that caused the tie as opposed to breaking it as one helps the villagers and the other the wolves... That is why Peregrine put out the 'are you sure' comment.. (or whatever that was...)

[Barkeep49]

Did you read the rest of what I wrote? Having a villager killed is far better for wolves than nothing. Therefore for villagers having no one killed is better than a villager killed. I stand by my actions.

[Eaglesfan27]

I come back from one of my worst call patients ever (I can't discuss the details but I think it might get me called into a medical malpractice suit [fortunately as a witness and not a defendant] and I found out I've been eaten :(

I hope I gave you indigestion.

[Mustang]

Did you read the rest of what I wrote? Having a villager killed is far better for wolves than nothing. Therefore for villagers having no one killed is better than a villager killed. I stand by my actions.

That was the debate at the time.. what is better. At the time, it was a coin flip if NTN or KWhit was next.. hmm.. I can see your point though. It would have been a definite bonus to get KWhit the next day but, I guess in hindsight, it wouldn't have mattered because KWhit would have been lynched and then probably NTN..

Having said that, I'll trust your judgement since you were right on KWhit... Kevin just unvoted and left for the night and put a few comments out... maybe that was so he could come back later and swing the vote tomorrow. I'm not sure.

Vote KevinNU

[Peregrine]

Barkeep49 - Kevin
KevinNU7
Mustang - Kevin
Desnudo - Barkeep

[Mustang]

Of course, with the current voting, Kevin is probably going to vote for Barkeep which forces a tie and we come back tomorrow...

[Swaggs]

Oh drama!

I love it. :)

[KevinNU7]

it seems pretty clear to me now. Mustang I urge you change your mind

I vote Barkeep

[KevinNU7]

Dola,

a tie isn't necessarily bad, it forces the wolf to make a move. I'm going to log in once tomorrow morning, other then that I can't do much for this weekend. If we make it another day it would have to wait until Tuesday :(

[Mustang]

it seems pretty clear to me now. Mustang I urge you change your mind

I vote Barkeep

What did I miss??? :confused:

[KevinNU7]

I think barkeep is the cursed.

[KevinNU7]

Ok, I'm off

[Mustang]

I think barkeep is the cursed.

You know if I change my vote and you are the wolf, people aren't going to be happy with me right? *L*

[Eaglesfan27]

This is a very fun ending..

[Eaglesfan27]

well except for the whole getting eaten portion of it.

[Swaggs]

well except for the whole getting eaten portion of it.

Don't feel bad.

I'm sure that you were delicious.

[Mustang]

:(

Unfortunately, Kevin is busy tomorrow and I'm busy tomorrow... I could see this going on for a few days. I'm still muddled in my head that If Neuqua was replaced and Desnudo IS the bodyguard then there was a reason for the replacement.. that is the cursed. Maybe I'm wrong.. blame me..

Unvote KevinNU

Vote Barkeep

[SirFozzie]

Looks like if Barkeep and Mustang can convince Desnudo to vote for Kevin, then we have a winner, either villagers or the wolves.

If there's no change, it's a tie, and I think we go to the chomping and gnashing of teeth, right?

If either of the two votes for Kevin change, we could have a plurality without a majority, or still a tie(depending on what Kevin does). Interesting to see what happens there.

The music is about to hit a crescendo.....

[Mustang]

This thread is going to get 1,000 views in the next 40 minutes.. *L*

[SirFozzie]

And NOW Kev can make the difference. Interesting strategic potential coming on his vote

[Swaggs]

Howl!

[ntndeacon]

Kill the Wolf!!!

[SirFozzie]

Damn I wish I was playing so I could speak on this. I have a theory, if any NON-PLAYING folks want to hear it on what his strategy could be :)

[Mustang]

Kill the Wolf!!!

Swaggs is already dead.. heh.. must be a wolf spirit..

Ohh.. Possessed wolves.. if a wolf dies, his spirit enters a villager.. hmmm.. now that would be interesting rule

[ntndeacon]

ok fine! Kill the werewolf!!!
Better?

[Peregrine]

Barkeep49 - Kevin
KevinNU7 - Barkeep
Mustang - Barkeep
Desnudo - Barkeep

I'm calling the voting at midnight (20 minutes).

[Buccaneer]

Ok, I've been following this since the beginning and I only have one question, what the fuck is *L*???? Is that some new internet/chat thing that makes kEwL d00d looks cool?

[SirFozzie]

It's another way to say LAUGHS.

[Mustang]

Ok, I've been following this since the beginning and I only have one question, what the fuck is *L*???? Is that some new internet/chat thing that makes kEwL d00d looks cool?

My assinine way of not using LOL

[Buccaneer]

Sorry. Emoticons are getting tiresome, aren't they?

[Swaggs]

Bucc, the big question is.... will you be playing along next time?

[Buccaneer]

Swaggs, thanks for asking but I'll just watch. I'm just not around that much to commit.

[SirFozzie]

I will definitely play next time. this was fun strategitizing, even if I couldn't post it.

Two minutes, and then we will have a winner, probably..

[Neon_Chaos]

Watching intently. :)

[Swaggs]

Swaggs, thanks for asking but I'll just watch. I'm just not around that much to commit.

You could have been the newly created "Grey Wolf."

Edit: Forgot the ";)"

[Peregrine]

Three of you agree on lynching Barkeep, who keeps protesting his innocence. "But...but...the seer, the seer said..." Kevin finally yells "Enough out of you wolf!" and runs Barkeep through with an old spear that's been propped in the corner for some time. Hmm...strange that Barkeep isn't changing into anything though. Apparently he was an innocent villager, just as he said!

After that it's fairly quick. There's some talk of trying to leave the manor, but the snow is piled up high outside and travel would be difficult, if not impossible. That night Desnudo is ripped to shreds, and even though Kevin wakes up in the middle of it and sees the werewolf, it's far too late. With a quick leap the wolf lands on Kevin and finishes him off too. Then quiet descends on the manor...quiet except for evil laughter from the sole remaining werewolf, Mustang...


Werewolves win!!!

Nice work all, especially Mustang, who I don't think got a vote the whole game, even at the end people had no clue. Brilliant wolfing.

[Neon_Chaos]

BRILLIANT. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

I never thought Mustang was the one. I was going to vote for Kevin if I survived.

[Swaggs]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[SirFozzie]

Here was my theory for Kevin btw.

IF Kevin is the werewolf, he should immediately go for the vote and finish it, and the wolves would win.

If he's NOT the werewolf, and he's not 100% sure that Barkeep is the wolf, his safest play is to vote for himself, believe it or not. That ties it up two-two, so no lynching, (not sure on whether they go to a chomp or not).

The reason is: By voting for himself to force a tie, he makes SURE there is no lynching, and sends a message that he's a villager, and NOT a wolf. That gives the other two villagers a chance to determine which of the other two is a wolf. He's Airhogged himself, removed himself as a possible suspect.

[Buccaneer]

That was f'n brilliant. *L*

[ntndeacon]

Stupid wolves! Well I have discovered that I am horrible at this game. and that I definately want to play again.

[Peregrine]

Here's the full list of roles. The wolves didn't kill anyone the very first night, by my choice, since I don't like eliminating someone before the game even starts. They got super lucky with their first kill by hitting Mustang, who was the cursed!

Villager - Condors
Villager - Eaglesfan
Brutal Wolf - Kwhit
Duke - Airhog
Villager - Shorty
Bodyguard - Desnudo
Villager - Neuqua
Werewolf - Lathum
Seer - Jon
Witness - McSweeny
Villager - KevinNU7
Sorceror - NoMyths
Villager - TazFTW
Cultist - Qwikshot
Cursed - Mustang
Villager - ntndeacon
Werewolf - Swaggs
Doctor - BrianD
Hunter - GWB

[Eaglesfan27]

Here was my theory for Kevin btw.

IF Kevin is the werewolf, he should immediately go for the vote and finish it, and the wolves would win.

If he's NOT the werewolf, and he's not 100% sure that Barkeep is the wolf, his safest play is to vote for himself, believe it or not. That ties it up two-two, so no lynching, (not sure on whether they go to a chomp or not).

The reason is: By voting for himself to force a tie, he makes SURE there is no lynching, and sends a message that he's a villager, and NOT a wolf. That gives the other two villagers a chance to determine which of the other two is a wolf. He's Airhogged himself, removed himself as a possible suspect.
Very smart.

[Peregrine]

Mustang had the 4 player vote locked up though, no matter what the strategy, since no one was voting for him, he could have switched at the last minute for either candidate and assured a win.

[SirFozzie]

Mustang had the 4 player vote locked up though, no matter what the strategy, since no one was voting for him, he could have switched at the last minute for either candidate and assured a win.

Correct, I was assuming that Kevin's vote came too late to change anyone elses

[Swaggs]

That was a blast, Peregrine.

Thanks for all the work. :)

[Mustang]

Whew..

My head hurts.

And thanks Peregrine. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

That was a blast. I'd love to do it again. Thanks for running this Peregrine.

[Peregrine]

The wolves had a lot going for them in the early part of the game, with several lynched villagers and especially getting rid of the Witness early. Then it turned against them when Jon finally got a hit on Lathum after a lot of unlucky viewing. Swaggs and Kwhit could be picked up as allies of Lathum, but Mustang was playing the opposite strategy, which was a good one. Even at the end Desnudo did a good job bodyguarding Eaglesfan the previous night, so there was a chance, but Mustang had everyone fooled.

For the Witness role, btw, the general accepted strategy is to burn this role early, because at least then you have one wolf out of the picture, and a second villager who, like Airhog, has a revealed role and is known safe. Didn't happen this time though.

[Peregrine]

Great game all, it was a lot of fun running it and seeing what people would do. If the Cursed hadn't been hit so early, who knows what would have happened. If Jon could have gotten his view in the night Desnudo protected him from death, he would have viewed Kwhit and could have saved another villager, that might have been another turning point.

[SirFozzie]

One thing that I wonder. I don't know if players can send PM's between each other. but if the Duke is out there (ie, revealed his Duke role in a lynching), it might be good for the Seer to send him a report on who he's viewed, and the results. That way, the Viewed people either have two people against their lynching if they are innocent, or two people to vote for them as a wolf (if they are one)

[Swaggs]

Three big points (after obviously getting Mustang to turn to a wolf on our first try) that I thought would swing the game:

First, Mustang voting too early for Lathum (when it looked like it would be a blowout. He didn't want to look suspicious switching, so he held his vote and we ended up lynching Lathum 5-4 and "outing" KWhit and myself).

Second was that we suspected that Eaglesfan was the bodyguard and knew Jon was the seer. We decided to gamble that Jon would either be too obvious to protect or may have been protected the night before, so we decided to try and use reverse-reverse psychology and eat him on Night 6, which obviously did not work. We thought it was over at that point. We were guaranteed of him not being protected the next night, so it ended up working out reasonably well in hindsight.

Third, ntndeacon somehow getting lynched before KWhit. Big, huge turning point that gave us another villager death, anther evening to kill, left KWhit with his brutal wolf 1-1 tradeoff, and then another evening to kill. Huge turnaround on that one.

[Eaglesfan27]

One thing that I wonder. I don't know if players can send PM's between each other. but if the Duke is out there (ie, revealed his Duke role in a lynching), it might be good for the Seer to send him a report on who he's viewed, and the results. That way, the Viewed people either have two people against their lynching if they are innocent, or two people to vote for them as a wolf (if they are one)
Only wolves are allowed to send PM's between themselves. This game would be too easy IMHO, if villagers could send PM's between themselves.

[NoMyths]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!

Strategy-wise, I wanted to keep enough heat on me early to hopefully signal to the wolves that I wasn't a threat, but not enough to actually get voted off. Worked well (up until I got eaten). The Sorcerer is a tricky role...no real advantages (besides being able to view the Seer...but once you have, tricky to report the info). I didn't know who the Seer was when I was eaten, but I'd managed to identify KWhit as a wolf.

I also was very glad to lead the charge against what proved to be the Cultist, which was an effort to show the villagers that I was on their side while still not knocking out a crucial wolf. Worked pretty darned well...too well, though, as I'm certain that's what got me eaten. Still managed to distract folks and massage votes in a good way throughout my portion of the game.

Fantastic finish, and congrats to my werewolf compatriats for our hard-earned victory. :)

[Peregrine]

One thing that I wonder. I don't know if players can send PM's between each other. but if the Duke is out there (ie, revealed his Duke role in a lynching), it might be good for the Seer to send him a report on who he's viewed, and the results. That way, the Viewed people either have two people against their lynching if they are innocent, or two people to vote for them as a wolf (if they are one)

Most of the time villagers can't PM each other. In some games there is a role called the Mason (usually) which I didn't use this time, basically there are 2 or 3 masons who know each others identities and can PM each other, however they are a really powerful force for the villagers since they can discuss things behind the scenes and vouch for each other if needed.

Yep, NoMyths, the Sorceror is probably the strangest role of all. You have the Seer power, and you're invisible to the Seer, but you are in the dark and have to be careful.

[Peregrine]

I'm currently trying to fine-tune the system for my next game, which will be a bit of playtesting since I've written it from scratch. I'm not sure if it's totally balanced, and it will probably be a very brutal game, but we'll see. ;)

[Buzzbee]

Only wolves are allowed to send PM's between themselves. This game would be too easy IMHO, if villagers could send PM's between themselves.
Then wouldn't it be pretty easy to look at the Current Active Users to see who is PM'ing to determine who is a wolf? Seems like AIM or YIM would be a better choice for the wolves, if they can.

[NoMyths]

Yep, NoMyths, the Sorceror is probably the strangest role of all. You have the Seer power, and you're invisible to the Seer, but you are in the dark and have to be careful.
Pretty much. I enjoyed the challenge, though...and seems like it worked out pretty well. Though not being able to affect the game in the closing days sucked. :)

Yeah, if the villagers could PM each other it'd be an overkill advantage, even if trickery was involved.

[Mustang]

At the time, there were a few opportunities to out me. The most glaring was that Qwikshot said he said I wasn't a wolf because of my tell. I was sure someone was going to put the 2 together and accuse me.

I wasn't the most popular for not switching to protect Lathum at the time but, given my early vote, if I would have switched, I would have been dead wolf walking.. Luckily NTN came in to take my place in that role...

The whole Scrawls email/mailbox thing couldn't have come at a worse time. KWhit's mailbox WAS full.. I tried to act quickly by joking around...

All I know is that it is odd to have to type something up and review it looking for misplaced words, typing or using them instead of us.. I was so damn paranoid at times that I typed up 'I'll be back after dinner' and promptly erased it. I think Swaggs called me Neurotic.. :D

[Buzzbee]

By the way, pretty awesome game Peregrine. Seems like there is quite a bit of strategy involved. I started following along a few days ago and was pretty impressed at how things seemed to balance out. Upon first reading the rules I didn't think it would be possible to do this on a forum, as people tend to want to give out too much info. However, that was proven to be a false assumption.

I am curious though, it seems like the early events really drive how well a game will unfold. The wolves hitting the cursed early really helped them in the long run. However, a wolf getting lynched early, even if by accident, could really impact the game (to the negative in my opinion).

As a result I get the impression that the quality of the game is really hit or miss, depending on what happens early on. Thoughts?

[Mustang]

Then wouldn't it be pretty easy to look at the Current Active Users to see who is PM'ing to determine who is a wolf? Seems like AIM or YIM would be a better choice for the wolves, if they can.

We were on AIM nightly to discuss.. I hated having to us PM's.. easy to spot really...

[BrianD]

That was quite the finish. I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was totally confused all the way to the end.

[Swaggs]

When it looked like Lathum-me-KWhit would go out back-to-back-to-back, I though it was over. At that point, it looked like it could up being one wolf (Mustang) to six villagers.

I was thinking then that with all the good luck we had had (good run of lynchings, getting the cursed early, killing the witness early, the hunter killing another villager), that if we couldn't win this one, it would be near impossible to win as wolves.

[BrianD]

I wasn't the most popular for not switching to protect Lathum at the time but, given my early vote, if I would have switched, I would have been dead wolf walking.. Luckily NTN came in to take my place in that role...


Was this the vote that ended up with Airhog switching near the end because he was trying to draw the wolves out? You narrowly avoided playing into his hands.

[Buzzbee]

Thought/suggestion:

Under the current rules everyone is trying to look like a villager. Seems like there should be a role where it is beneficial to look like a wolf. So, I came up with the Martyr.

If a Martyr is lynched, the first innocent villager eliminated (by lynching or eating) would be brought back into the game. Obviously the Martyr would die, but it would be a net zero effect on the count.

This might be a huge swing for the villagers, as it would 'void' an innocent being killed off, as well as increase the number of known villagers.

It would also have the effect of potentially bringing back into the game someone who was eliminated early, thus making it more fun for that innocent.

There might need to be some tweaks, as it sounds like a big advantage for the villagers, but thought I'd toss it out for Peregrine to consider.

[Mustang]

Was this the vote that ended up with Airhog switching near the end because he was trying to draw the wolves out? You narrowly avoided playing into his hands.

I think I was chatting with Lathum at the time and I told him Airhog was baiting us to do something... sure enough, with 3 minutes left, airhog switched..

[Airhog]

When I first stated that I wanted to eat Neuqua I was just joking around. However, I decided to run with it. I probably should have waited a bit longer to use my power, however given that I had very bad luck fingering the wolfs I dont think it really mattered except to taz. I was surprised that they didnt eat me the following night, but I guess a free kill is a good thing to have.

I definately hope I can play in the next game :)

[Mustang]

Actually, I believed we left Airhog around just because

1.) He was wrong alot and helping us out.
2.) We knew who he was. Thought it would be better to take a stab in the dark at getting other roles.. (not the sorceror/cult)..

In hindsight.. should have killed him. We didn't realize he would start posting graphs and being a general pain in the ass... :)

[ntndeacon]

Actually, I believed we left Airhog around just because

1.) He was wrong alot and helping us out.
2.) We knew who he was. Thought it would be better to take a stab in the dark at getting other roles.. (not the sorceror/cult)..

In hindsight.. should have killed him. We didn't realize he would start posting graphs and being a general pain in the ass... :)

Of course since he was pretty nearly always wrong, we villagers shoulda used that as a clear sign whoever Airhog was voting for was innocent.

[ntndeacon]

Of COurse my record wasn't much better. I just kept accusing important good guys. oops. And coming in just in time to vote but not having enough time to read posts was not good.

[Peregrine]

Then wouldn't it be pretty easy to look at the Current Active Users to see who is PM'ing to determine who is a wolf? Seems like AIM or YIM would be a better choice for the wolves, if they can.

What's this all about? This must be a feature of this board that I'm not aware of.

[TazFTW]

I'm currently trying to fine-tune the system for my next game, which will be a bit of playtesting since I've written it from scratch. I'm not sure if it's totally balanced, and it will probably be a very brutal game, but we'll see. ;)
You can put me on the "wanting to play" list for that game.

[Airhog]

I think this game shows one rule of thumb for wolves. If one of you is getting alot of votes, dont jump in and try to persuade the others from voting for your fellow wolf. If he is killed, then your screwed.

[Peregrine]

f a Martyr is lynched, the first innocent villager eliminated (by lynching or eating) would be brought back into the game. Obviously the Martyr would die, but it would be a net zero effect on the count.

This might be a huge swing for the villagers, as it would 'void' an innocent being killed off, as well as increase the number of known villagers.

It would also have the effect of potentially bringing back into the game someone who was eliminated early, thus making it more fun for that innocent.

There might need to be some tweaks, as it sounds like a big advantage for the villagers, but thought I'd toss it out for Peregrine to consider.

Interesting idea, though I think you'd have to use this when roles were not being revealed on death, otherwise if an important special role villager went out first the Martyr would want to sacrifice themselves immediately to bring them back.

My next game is going to have a lot more mystery, there's not going to be an explanation of the roles beforehand, and there are going to be more than just wolves vs. villagers, I think involving more factions will be fun.

[Fouts]

Nice finish. I was sure EF was a wolf with all his obvious I'm a lowly villager talk. How does one get on the list for these games?

[Peregrine]

I am curious though, it seems like the early events really drive how well a game will unfold. The wolves hitting the cursed early really helped them in the long run. However, a wolf getting lynched early, even if by accident, could really impact the game (to the negative in my opinion).

It's interesting, I think it depends on the game. A wolf getting hit early would hurt, but on the other hand if the remaining ones were crafty, having fewer of them would actually help them hide among the crowd. With several wolves they can almost be tripping over each other at times, and the voting patterns become a giveaway. Notice how in this game it took a while for the first wolf to die, but once he did Kwhit and Swaggs were being named by everyone.

In our first game there were a lot fewer special roles but a werewolf was lynched pretty quick, and the game ended a lot faster, with a villager win.

[Peregrine]

Well I'll be starting the new game probably on Tuesday, I'll try to gather some of the new people who have expressed interest and fill out the game with veterans. I think it will be a 16 player game, and will probably play out a good bit faster.

[BrianD]

My next game is going to have a lot more mystery, there's not going to be an explanation of the roles beforehand, and there are going to be more than just wolves vs. villagers, I think involving more factions will be fun.

I'd be anxious to try this one out. I think a game without revealing roles would be fun. Lots more mystery when you don't know if a seer or bodyguard is alive or not.

[Raven]

Well I'll be starting the new game probably on Tuesday, I'll try to gather some of the new people who have expressed interest and fill out the game with veterans. I think it will be a 16 player game, and will probably play out a good bit faster.


I'd love to play if you are taking names.

[Fouts]

Yes, count me in. No weekend plans here, except the A's-Chisox game. 8 straight wins and counting for the A's....

[Eaglesfan27]

Nice finish. I was sure EF was a wolf with all his obvious I'm a lowly villager talk. How does one get on the list for these games?

Sometimes a rose is a rose. :)

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm interested in being included again, but would understand if you give a role to someone who didn't get a chance to play in earlier games.

[Neon_Chaos]

Put me on the list as well. :)

[Desnudo]

Well played Mustang. I can't believe I missed by one night and it changed the whole game. I thought you were a target early, and when nothing happened the first night, I figured I was right (and definitely lucky) in picking you to protect. Nequa seemed the obvious choice the second night because of the option to frame Airhog, so I didn't think anything of it when nothing happened.

In retrospect, I wish I'd stuck to my guns on KWhit. I should have tried to convince Kevin to switch to him, instead of sticking with deacon. What prevented me was the suspicion that Kevin was the last wolf besides KWhit at that point, and it didn't matter. Even had that happened, I think you would have been low on the list of suspects, possibly the last guy to get called out, considering the way you voted.

Even had Jon viewed on the night he was protected, I don't know if we would have won. More likely it would have meant more lynching of villagers. I just don't see how anyone would have deduced it was Mustang.

I'd love to be involved again, but I'll understand if you want to give new players a chance. Thanks again for running these games. I've enjoyed them a lot. :)

[KevinNU7]

Nice work Mustang. I guess I can be happy that I made it to the Final 2. Would have been cool if the Hunter was in the Final 4 to freak you out.

I'd like to continue playing this game but it seems like my current schedule really limits my playing after 4pm. If there is a game with deadlines during the day I'd love to play again.

Peregrine, IMO you should take PMs for requests to play and then try and fill the game with as many newbies as possible, and then add the veterans

[Joe]

so why did the wolves kill me?

[Mustang]

so why did the wolves kill me?

If I remember right, purely Random... We wanted someone that wasn't too quiet and wasn't too talkative. Everyone was so hyped on the quiet thing we wanted to leave the quiet ones alone . . .

[henry296]

I'd be interested in playing too.. Been following along the whole time.

[Peregrine]

Added a poll to see what people think.

[KWhit]

Great game wolves!

Thanks for running it Peregrine.

Some things about the game:

The Jon vs Lathum vote was a turning point. Obviously, Swaggs and I put targets on our backs by doing what we did, but we were just one vote short of basically being assured a victory. If Jon got lynched instead of Lathum, it would be 6 vilagers to 4 wolves. After a villager was eaten during the night round, that would have made it 5-4 and then it would be a bodyguard vs brutal wolf race. As soon as the brutal wolf was lynched, the wolves would win. UNLESS the bodyguard stopped a killing.

And with ntndeacon's last second vote, we had enough votes to lynch Jon. But Mustang didn't change his vote, so Lathum got lynched. I thought we were toast. But one thing it did was to put Mustang on the "likely not a wolf" list in people's minds, so it worked out to be a good strategy.

Something to remember in future games - it only takes one wolf to win.

[KWhit]

And I'll throw my name into the running for the next game as well, but understand if you want to go with new blood.

[Peregrine]

Here are the new people who have expressed interest, as far as I know:

henry296
Raven
Neon_Chaos
Buzzbee (confirm this?)
Fouts
SirFozzie
mrsimperless
heybrad (requested before this game started)
barkeep49

Barkeep was in the last game but only as a replacement near the end.

[Qwikshot]

Can't wait to to watch the next round...

For the record I didn't know Mustang was cursed, I only had information on Swaggs, KWhit and Lathum...

My main goal was to generate enough conversation to at least start killing off the first 6 (yes, yes Lathum was a wolf, but I figured I could pull and kill 5 you guys would be fed up enough to ignore my theories).

Happy the wolves won...

I enjoyed it very much.

[Barkeep49]

Thanks for letting me a part of the game, even if only towards the end. Playing is more fun than watching.

After seeing the game here I went and found a couple of other boards that run the game and one permutation that I read about, but never saw a thread for, was the idea of having competing wolf packs. That seems like a neat spin on the idea.

Great job Mustang, as you really did slip through the cracks.

[Lathum]

Grat job wolves !!

Thanks to peregrine for running the show.

I thought I had Jon for a bit there. I knew he was the seer and thought I may have had a chance. The way the voting went down to the wire was very interesting.

Not only did we get lucky with Mustang but I also thought we did a great job spreading out our votes and not drawing to much suspiscion untill the end.

I thought everyone for the most part played great. Especially Desnudo and Eaglesfan (who I tried to get rid of early). And thanks to airhog for always guessing wrong :).

I'll play next game but if you need to bump me so someone else has a chance to play I will consider myself an alternate.

And once again I just want to remind everyone what happens in the game stays in the game, don't take it personaly.

[Peregrine]

After seeing the game here I went and found a couple of other boards that run the game and one permutation that I read about, but never saw a thread for, was the idea of having competing wolf packs. That seems like a neat spin on the idea.

The board that introduced me to it is Boardgamegeek, they have a whole forum devoted to various WW games. Bringing it here seemed like a natural thing. It's been a lot of fun running the games and we've had a lot of good players.

For the next game I think I may not include people who have already played in two games, to allow some more new people to play. However, I'm thinking of some schemes to let killed players, and even observers, still have a role in the game. More on that later.

[Peregrine]

I've been talking with Kwhit, who said he's interested in trying to run a game. We're thinking that he may run a game for the newer players, that's a bit less complex, and I'll run my playtesting game for the veterans. Hopefully that sounds good to everyone, we can accomodate a lot more people this way. Kwhit can decide the size and rules of his game and when he wants to start. I'm still planning on starting on Tuesday (I think) and will be posting something later on tonight maybe.

[KWhit]

Yep. It sounds like it will be fun to run a game, and I think there's enough interest to run two games at a time.

I plan on starting mine Tuesday or Wednesday (probably Wednesday). I'll let you know as we get closer, and start a sign-up thread for it soon.

So tentatively, these new folks have shown interest:

henry296
Raven
Neon_Chaos
Buzzbee
Fouts
SirFozzie
mrsimperless
heybrad
barkeep49


Anybody else, let me know.

Also, I want to run a semi-basic game with just wolves, villagers, a seer, and maybe another role or two. Let me know if you definitely want or definitely don't want another role in the game. I don't want to make this game too complex, but we can handle some more special roles if you want them.

[Raven]

KWhit, I was hoping we'd have several more roles other than just wolves and villagers. While I've never played the game, I did read all 1300+ posts in this thread, so have a fairly good idea of what each role can do. A couple other guys on your list (if not all) probably feel the same way. I understand you wanting to keep it simple, i just hope it isn't too simple that it's a dumbed-down version of the game and not quite as fun.

Thanks.

[Barkeep49]

I would love to play another game, but also would prefer more roles, if possible.

[Joe]

I think this game had too many roles, it really lagged waiting for the PMs from everyone to do the night turns. So maybe find a good middle ground.

[Mustang]

For the next game I think I may not include people who have already played in two games, to allow some more new people to play. However, I'm thinking of some schemes to let killed players, and even observers, still have a role in the game. More on that later.

Even if you had a spot for me, I'd need to sit one out...

Not to mention, I don't think I'm going to be trusted for a bit of time in these games... no sense getting killed the first night. :)

[Desnudo]

I would think you would actually get a free pass, since most people would think you wouldn't be a wolf twice in a row.

I apologize if it was asked and answered already, but why didn't you vote for Jon? Was it part of some sacrifice strategy? The Swaggs and KWhit votes make sense since they were obvious, but the Lathum one...

[Desnudo]

A couple of suggestions for the next round:

First off, I really like the organization that you've applied to these games. I think the only improvement I would like to see is quicker removal of non-active players. Something like two missed votes in a row and you are replaced. I don't think it is strategy missing a vote more than once in a row, and it isn't fair to the other players. It is disruptive to the game flow. You should be forced to make a judgement. If I were locked in a house with twelve people, I would demand to know each one of their opinions. There's flying below the radar and not even being on the radar.

Second, if you combine the guys from both of the games plus the new guys, couldn't you run one complex and one normal game? Or does KWhit want to run a simple one for his first game? :)

[Airhog]

I have to agree with dsenudo here. Having neuqua drop out was a bit frustrating. I think you should be able to abstain from voting, but I think you should have to say your doing so before the deadline.

[Swaggs]

Two other small things for the next game.

Other than short comments and such, it is disruptive and messes up the game when viewers speculate "out loud."

The other thing is that werewolves should have the option to not kill during any given evening. It adds to the hysteria/speculation, at times.

[Mustang]

I apologize if it was asked and answered already, but why didn't you vote for Jon? Was it part of some sacrifice strategy? The Swaggs and KWhit votes make sense since they were obvious, but the Lathum one...

Initially, Lathum had suggested that if the tide turned on him, just vote on him. I voted I believe 3rd or 4th.. then some momentum turned on NTN.. I was watching that hoping Lathum would pull one out but, when it went 5-3, there was no sense.. NTN helped by voting at the last second. With a minute left, I would have swung but, he literally voted at the last second...

[ntndeacon]

I don't think you should be able to abstain. In fact that is why I voted at the last minute that one night. just to vote. I think that part of the game is putting yourself on the line each night with an accusation.

[Peregrine]

First off, I really like the organization that you've applied to these games. I think the only improvement I would like to see is quicker removal of non-active players. Something like two missed votes in a row and you are replaced.

I agree, I dropped the ball on this as I wasn't keeping as close a track as I should have been to who was active and not. Also, it's no shame to PM me and say "Look, I can't be active for a few days if you want to replace me." Real life stuff happens.


Second, if you combine the guys from both of the games plus the new guys, couldn't you run one complex and one normal game? Or does KWhit want to run a simple one for his first game?

Well as far as I'm concerned I would be fine running both games, but Kwhit was interested in running one. I'm just worried that my new game is going to be chaotic enough, without new people having to learn sort of how to play at the same time. The other game can be however we want it, I think Kwhit wants to ease himself in.

I think this game had too many roles, it really lagged waiting for the PMs from everyone to do the night turns.

I don't think it's too many roles, it's just that it took me a while to set a deadline for those PMs, and I should have done so immediately.

[Peregrine]

Also, Swaggs, the wolves always have the option of not killing someone, it's just rarely a good option since whatever confusion they may gain, they lose in having to take an extra turn to get rid of everyone.

[Barkeep49]

I don't think you should be able to abstain. In fact that is why I voted at the last minute that one night. just to vote. I think that part of the game is putting yourself on the line each night with an accusation.
I agree with this completely.

[BrianD]

If there is any room in an upcoming WW game, I'd love to be in. Since I was in the last two games, I'll understand if we want to give others a shot. But anytime there is an opening, I'll definitely throw my name in.

[Peregrine]

Anyone who was in the last game is welcome to sign up for my next game. Just shoot me a PM to let me know. I only need 17 players though, this time. I'll also be asking Fonzie and Jeff061 who weren't in this game, but were in my 5 player game.

[Peregrine]

Hmm maybe PM isn't the best way to do it. I think I'll also include a couple of new people to keep the mix fresh. If your name is on this list and you don't want to play in the next one, let me know.

Eaglesfan
ntndeacon
BrianD
Airhog
TazFTW
Desnudo
Fonzie
Qwikshot
Jeff061
SirFozzie
Barkeep49
KevinNU7
Swaggs
Nomyths
Jon
Tigercat
Lathum

[Thomkal]

I would also like to get in on one of these games. I've been reading many of the games at the boardgame geek site Peregrine mentioned, and have become intrigued by the whole thing.

Oh and Peregrine-you are an evil Spawn! :)

[Peregrine]

Oh and Peregrine-you are an evil Spawn!

Yeah we suckered that crew but good, even though they basically knew our identities, they couldn't lynch us fast enough to prevent us from winning. A couple of good or lucky actions on our part got them all paranoid.

[KWhit]

I don't need to keep my game simple for me, and I'll add more special roles than just the seer. But I do think that for first timers there shouldn't be as many roles as what we had this last time. I also think that some of the extra roles don't hold as much value as others. It depends on how many people decide to play in my game, but I'll have more roles than just the seer, and I'll make sure it's not a dumbed down game.

Here's who I have playing so far. Let me know if you want in the game or if your name is here and you don't want to play. Note, I didn't include anyone who is in Peregrine's game. If you want to do both, you can if I need the people, so let me know if you want in mine too. But I will be taking players that aren't in Pere's game first.

henry296
Raven
Neon_Chaos
Buzzbee
Fouts
mrsimperless
heybrad
Thomkal

So come on folks! I need more people!

[Barkeep49]

KWhit you might want to do a new thread as I know I would have signed up at the end of the 1st game had I known it was the end, but I wasn't checking that thread.