Werewolf: Hunt for Necromancers - GAME OVER! Post #3469

[Barkeep49]

I cannot do this right now but are there any players we have not heard from?

[Passacaglia]

How would we have a statement to test against? Aren't these orders done over PM?

[Barkeep49]

How would we have a statement to test against? Aren't these orders done over PM?
Yes but if path orders the bodyguard to protect you tonight, if someone claims to be the bodyguard they can prove it by explaining that path order him to protect you. Path then confirms that this was his order and we have verified the bg.

[Abe Sargent]

Ok so I think this is pretty clear: path should definitely issue a protection order tonight. In this way if someone later claims to be the guard we have a statement to test against. If we get a new pharoh same deal, on the first night of that pharoh's rule he issues a protect order so we have something to verify a statement from the elite guard.


What if the EG knows something path doesn't and needs to guard elsewhere?

-Anxiety

[Barkeep49]

Does the EG know something now? What if path knows something the EG doesn't? I agree that this plan has more of a potential downside in days to come, but for tonight, I can't imagine that the EG knows too much and so letting path do it seems like the way to go.

[Lathum]

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

I always seem to go for him early.

[Qwikshot]

Schmidty is like a camel. He drinks it all one night in early march, and then can call upon it at will over the year and be drunk in a second. Quite a useful skill really

In Russia, Camel rides YOU!:D

[SnDvls]

there is a crap load of crap for just being day 1.

my thoughts will follow....got to reread rules now

[path12]

Does the EG know something now? What if path knows something the EG doesn't? I agree that this plan has more of a potential downside in days to come, but for tonight, I can't imagine that the EG knows too much and so letting path do it seems like the way to go.

I can verify that I have no knowledge of anybody else's role.

[Coffee Warlord]

In Russia, Camel rides YOU!:D

It's in Soviet Russia, Komrade!

[SnDvls]

HOOPS -
question RE: - Pharoah: duke role, keeps it if he lynches a necromancer.
Can only be day lynched if all three members of the ruling class are all in faction voting for him. Can issue a protet order to Elite Guard if desired

does this mean that if the 3 ruling class vote for path and the majority vote for someone else that there would be 2 lynches? Or that all three have to vote for him and a majority?

[Vince]

Vote Vince

He chose WoW over WW. Insanity. And as everyone knows, necromancers are insane.

For the record, I chose WoW over chatting with Drunk Schmidty :)

I think this game is going to be a bit of a change for me -- instead of spending craploads of time analyzing everything, I believe I'm just going to be a bit more chill. I don't have as much free time as I have for previous WW games (as evidenced by my lack of participation of late.

That being said, I think Alan T is right on -- if/since the bad guys don't know each other, we've got the upper hand already in simple numbers, and there will probably be more bad guys around.

[SnDvls]

here's my guess on bad guy numbers.

with 22 players I would say there are at least 5 bad guys to start w/ the ability to bring over/convert another. there are just too many roles even if some aren't in game to not start w/ at least 5. just MHO

[hoopsguy]

No, the majority must still vote to lynch the Pharoah. However, he cannot be lynched without the three ruling class members being part of that majority.

So there would only be one lynch on that day (or on any day).

[SnDvls]

cool thanks

[SnDvls]

vote Bek

first day vote hasn't checked in

[hoopsguy]

D'oh - just realized that I have been butchering the spelling of the Egyptian leader.

Pharaoh. While I realize that I'm not going to get every aspect of the game to dovetail with ancient Egyptian culture, perhaps I could spell the name of the ruler correctly? I = dumbass.

[Alan T]

D'oh - just realized that I have been butchering the spelling of the Egyptian leader.

Pharaoh. While I realize that I'm not going to get every aspect of the game to dovetail with ancient Egyptian culture, perhaps I could spell the name of the ruler correctly? I = dumbass.


Will I get smited somehow at night if I agree with you?? :) just kidding!

[hoopsguy]

Nah, I'll let your fellow players take care of smiting you.

Doesn't mean I won't put a bounty on your head to incent the other players to smite you at night :eek:;)

[Barkeep49]

From my purusual of the list it seems like Bek is the only one who hasn't checked in. As such I would be leaning towards voting for him as well.

[Barkeep49]

there is a crap load of crap for just being day 1.

my thoughts will follow....got to reread rules now
While there are a lot of posts I think we've had some useful discussion, especially for a Day 1.

[SnDvls]

While there are a lot of posts I think we've had some useful discussion, especially for a Day 1.

oh I agree, just a lot of crap thrown in between that makes it hard to sort through.

[SnDvls]

dola - also a lot or posts too for day one was my other point.

[SnDvls]

oops should say a lot of posts

[Alan T]

My current vote talley is:

St. cronin - Blade (139), Anxiety (178), Schmidty (200), Chubby (227)
Schmidty - St. Cronin (195)
Bulletsponge - Tyrith (196)
tyrith - vince (209)
Vince - Coffee Warlord (220)
Dubb93 - Saldana (248)
Tanglewood - Lathum (256)
Bek - Sndvls (266)


St. Cronin has 4 votes with 7 other people having 1 vote.

Without having any idea where to place my vote I will go ahead and vote for the first person to start a run on St. Cronin. Day 1 runs without a night 0 always feel weird to me anyways.

Vote Anxiety

[kingfc22]

I have no clue on who to vote for. So I am going to go with Tyrith. He was such a good bad guy in my WW game and I hate for him to fool us in this one.

Vote TYRITH

[SnDvls]

My current vote talley is:

St. cronin - Blade (139), Anxiety (178), Schmidty (200), Chubby (227)
Schmidty - St. Cronin (195)
Bulletsponge - Tyrith (196)
tyrith - vince (209)
Vince - Coffee Warlord (220)
Dubb93 - Saldana (248)
Tanglewood - Lathum (256)
Bek - Sndvls (266)


St. Cronin has 4 votes with 7 other people having 1 vote.

Without having any idea where to place my vote I will go ahead and vote for the first person to start a run on St. Cronin. Day 1 runs without a night 0 always feel weird to me anyways.

Vote Anxiety


I actually like your thinking on this.

1st vote on day one is a throw away.
2nd sometimes could be the same
3rd is usually the pile one (in this case it seems to be the retalatiory (??) vote)
4th is usually the clincher and lyncher (in this case a new player reacting to a poorly laid out St. C joke)

I'm going to keep my eye on this as admiditally my vote is a wast and throw away.

[Passacaglia]

I'm going to vote Bek, too. It's been a looong Day 1, encompassing weekend and weekday. If he shows up, and I sign on again before the deadline, I will take my vote off him.

VOTE BEK

[Barkeep49]

Both Chubby and Schmidty's vote are understandable retaliations. I would agree of the 4, at least on the surface, Anxiety is the most suspicous. Though I am still inclined to go with Bek simply because quiet = bad for the villagers.

[SnDvls]

Both Chubby and Schmidty's vote are understandable retaliations. I would agree of the 4, at least on the surface, Anxiety is the most suspicous. Though I am still inclined to go with Bek simply because quiet = bad for the villagers.

which is the same place I'm at as well.

[Abe Sargent]

My current vote talley is:

St. cronin - Blade (139), Anxiety (178), Schmidty (200), Chubby (227)
Schmidty - St. Cronin (195)
Bulletsponge - Tyrith (196)
tyrith - vince (209)
Vince - Coffee Warlord (220)
Dubb93 - Saldana (248)
Tanglewood - Lathum (256)
Bek - Sndvls (266)


St. Cronin has 4 votes with 7 other people having 1 vote.

Without having any idea where to place my vote I will go ahead and vote for the first person to start a run on St. Cronin. Day 1 runs without a night 0 always feel weird to me anyways.

Vote Anxiety


Then why go after me? I voted in direct retaliation for st. cronin acting odd, and I was the first to vote cronin. When I voted, there was no pile.

-Anxiety

[Alan T]

Then why go after me? I voted in direct retaliation for st. cronin acting odd, and I was the first to vote cronin. When I voted, there was no pile.

-Anxiety

Its a day 1 vote, and I have no information on anyone. You wern't the first to vote for him however, Blade was. you were #2 :) Of the three later votes, you were the only one I didn't see any personal conflict reason to vote there.

Either way, I'm not making a huge deal out of this, I find your defense more interesting than the vote itself though :) Its a day one vote and I just went for what to me felt like the fishiest day 1 behavior is all.

[Blade6119]

EEK! well if thats the case im voting for TYRITH
Try and re-do it like this:

VOTE TYRITH

NOTE, THIS IS NOT MY VOTE..mine was cast long ago

[Blade6119]

and I was the first to vote cronin. When I voted, there was no pile.
What alan said...you were not the first to vote cronin, and you started the pile...

[Vince]

Ok, with not much else to go on after day one (though we did get some good discussion), my Tyrith vote is pretty weak. I'm going to switch over to Bek, as I like the "quiet = bad for the villagers" logic more than just picking someone at random. And I'm heading out to work here pretty soon, so that should be it from me until this evening.

Unvote Tyrith
Vote Bek

[Blade6119]

Ok, with not much else to go on after day one (though we did get some good discussion), my Tyrith vote is pretty weak. I'm going to switch over to Bek, as I like the "quiet = bad for the villagers" logic more than just picking someone at random. And I'm heading out to work here pretty soon, so that should be it from me until this evening.

Unvote Tyrith
Vote Bek
This may sound funny. But this may be the only day where not talking a lot helps us. They dont know each other yet, therefore talking a lot might give them the same reads were trying to find. Be careful what you wish for, as if they all figure each other out we could be in a heap of trouble if i understand the night kill mechanic.

[Passacaglia]

But, by that argument, would it behoove a necromancer to start a pile, like Anxiety did?

[Abe Sargent]

Its a day 1 vote, and I have no information on anyone. You wern't the first to vote for him however, Blade was. you were #2 :) Of the three later votes, you were the only one I didn't see any personal conflict reason to vote there.

Either way, I'm not making a huge deal out of this, I find your defense more interesting than the vote itself though :) Its a day one vote and I just went for what to me felt like the fishiest day 1 behavior is all.


I thought st. cronin was the fishiest.

Why wouldn't I defend myself?

I didn;t realize I wasn;t first, my bad.

-Anxiety

[Vince]

This may sound funny. But this may be the only day where not talking a lot helps us. They dont know each other yet, therefore talking a lot might give them the same reads were trying to find. Be careful what you wish for, as if they all figure each other out we could be in a heap of trouble if i understand the night kill mechanic.

That makes some sense, but I still am of the opinion that the more information there is out there, the better off the "villagers" are.

Also, though I don't believe this is the case, that post could very well be looked at as a defense of Bek, perhaps by another Necromancer. Again, I don't think this is the case, but it ran through my mind when I read it for the first time, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

[Blade6119]

But, by that argument, would it behoove a necromancer to start a pile, like Anxiety did?
It might. Remember, they have no idea who each other are, so a spread out vote prob. suites them best. So start a pile and look like a villager(though im focusing more on the fact in the face of evidence pointing out he voted after me he still claimed to vote first)

[Passacaglia]

That makes some sense, but I still am of the opinion that the more information there is out there, the better off the "villagers" are.

Also, though I don't believe this is the case, that post could very well be looked at as a defense of Bek, perhaps by another Necromancer. Again, I don't think this is the case, but it ran through my mind when I read it for the first time, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

What motive could he have to defend Bek, though? The necromancers don't know each other -- that's the whole crux of the argument!

[Passacaglia]

It might. Remember, they have no idea who each other are, so a spread out vote prob. suites them best. So start a pile and look like a villager(though im focusing more on the fact in the face of evidence pointing out he voted after me he still claimed to vote first)

I think you're right, but I have a feeling we're helping the necromancers out here. My inclination, though, is that for the most part, on Day 1 the necromancers don't care much who we vote for, as long as it's not a fellow necromancer -- although, in this case, with the necromancers not knowing each other, they REALLY don't care.

[Blade6119]

That makes some sense, but I still am of the opinion that the more information there is out there, the better off the "villagers" are.

Also, though I don't believe this is the case, that post could very well be looked at as a defense of Bek, perhaps by another Necromancer. Again, I don't think this is the case, but it ran through my mind when I read it for the first time, so I thought I'd throw it out there.
I just remember last time bek played he was just as quiet and was clean..so im not trying to throw him under the bus quite yet. Defense, somewhat. If you want to kill him i wont try to stop you though by moving my vote around to anyone but anxiety now.

[Alan T]

Its day 1, Im guessing usually someone who doesn't even show up at all to say hi once the game starts has the same percentage of being bad as any of the rest of us. Removing someone who is not going to participate however is a good thing since inactive players don't help our side any either. I tend to at least try to give someone 1 day before kicking them. never know what might have happened. some emergency or whatever.

In this game the bad guys don't know who each other are, so I doubt you will see any maneuvering to save anyone or such. There was no night 0 for seer activity, so pretty much all of us have a 4/21, 5/21 or 6/21 whatever the bad guy total is of being correct with our guess.

So maybe a bad guy would want to hide their vote on day 1? Arguably you could "hide" a vote by being one of the 10 people voting for someone entirely different. or you could "hide" your vote by being in a group of people to not stick out.

In the end, I really don't know what we will understand immediately after the first lynch. Likely will take at least 1 or 2 night actions for either side to start forming circles of trust so to speak.

Thats why I said I think you're making a bigger deal out of it than it should be Anxiety :) Unless someone just slips up and makes a mistake, usually day 1 isn't rocket science. Thats why I said your reaction was more interesting than your vote was to me. :)

[Abe Sargent]

Does the EG know something now? What if path knows something the EG doesn't? I agree that this plan has more of a potential downside in days to come, but for tonight, I can't imagine that the EG knows too much and so letting path do it seems like the way to go.


I thought I got the impression some roles could be combined? So, for example, an Elite Guard Brother or an Elite Guard Soothsayer may know more. Obviously, if path does know more, why not use it, but if he is just taking a shot in the dark, why take the chance?

-Anxiety

[Blade6119]

I thought I got the impression some roles could be combined? So, for example, an Elite Guard Brother or an Elite Guard Soothsayer may know more. Obviously, if path does know more, why not use it, but if he is just taking a shot in the dark, why take the chance?

-Anxiety
The logic is that then when the elite guard reveals down the road and says who he guarded each night, path can confirm that the night 0 is the same as the order issued. On night 1, its a seemingly innocent way to provide a check later in the game against a fake role reveal. I doubt either path or the EG know who to guard yet, so path doing it tonight seems a fairly high gain low loss move to me.

[Abe Sargent]

I understand the logic. Remember there are possibly multiple EGs, so that's not as good a check as it might otherwise be.

-Anxiety

[Blade6119]

I understand the logic. Remember there are possibly multiple EGs, so that's not as good a check as it might otherwise be.

-Anxiety
I highly doubt we have multiple EGs...especially with the avatar a possible role based on player choice. Id bet money against it in my mind, as i feel the whole multiple thing applies to some of the other roles like favoured by the gods and what not. I might be wrong, but im playing under the assumption we have 1 EG this game

[Blade6119]

dola, pharoh can issue orders to THE EG, not one of the EGs

[Qwikshot]

What is 9pm CST in Eastern Standard Time?

I think I always ask this?

I doubt there are multiple EGs, but I want an EKG, since I think this is going to be a heart pounding game...(badump dump dump)

I hate day one votes.

[SnDvls]

I see bek here so it should help some now with everyone checking in.

[Bek]

Im finally here after a long day...after working in the morning, i am just getting on know...i hope i will be able to catch up on everything that went on...good luck to all of us

[Passacaglia]

Okay, Bek's here, so like I said, I'll change my vote.

UNVOTE BEK
VOTE BARKEEP49

Barkeep's been pushing for a lot of reveals that I disagree with.

[Bek]

Vote St Cronin

[Barkeep49]

Pass by a lot of votes you mean 1? I've pushed for one reveal, that of the Ruling Class. Furthermore reveals are good. It was the reveals which won us the last game.

[Barkeep49]

Or rather, reveals are often good. In this game I think they're of less value then others, especially with the neutrals. But reveals help to form circles of trust. And that is the time proven effective strategy for villagers winning the game.

[Barkeep49]

So bek any thoughts at all?

[Abe Sargent]

I highly doubt we have multiple EGs...especially with the avatar a possible role based on player choice. Id bet money against it in my mind, as i feel the whole multiple thing applies to some of the other roles like favoured by the gods and what not. I might be wrong, but im playing under the assumption we have 1 EG this game


If we have one, and another reveals, can we be certain that's a fake?

I've seen the protagonists make many mistakes in WW games assuming that a role can't be held by more than one person.

Especially since:

Post 247, hoopsguy says:

n terms of multiple holders of the role, the Pharoah can only issue his order to one person - he would not be able to issue two or more sets of orders in hopes that there are multiple parties. If an Elite Guard is moved off his protect by Pharoah's order he will be informed of this via PM.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

As a matter of fact, the more I think about this, the more it just seems like a bad idea, altogether.

Suppose there are two EGs, and the pharoah issues an order. One follows the order. Now, if the other reveals, honestly, then the pharoah would say, "nope" and we'd end up lynching an EG. The strategy would backfire and help the necros.

-Anxiety

[Passacaglia]

Pass by a lot of votes you mean 1? I've pushed for one reveal, that of the Ruling Class. Furthermore reveals are good. It was the reveals which won us the last game.

I was thinking of two -- for the ruling class, and the elite guard. Granted, the elite guard was something down the road. I wasn't in last game, but it just seems to me that reveals make targets.

[SnDvls]

hmmm...here and gone...I'm sticking with my vote

[dubb93]

Just finished catching up with the thread, doesn't seem as random as most day 1's for some reason. However, I'm pretty sure Saldana isn't on the up and up ;)

VOTE SALDANA

[Barkeep49]

Actually I'm not pushing for the EG to reveal at all. Only trying to ensure we don't get caught in a fake reveal.

Anxiety: With all the bad guys have going against them I don't think it's likely that there are two egs out there. Why SHOULD we suppose there are two egs? In your scenrario, sure it's not great. But is it a likely case?

[Passacaglia]

Actually I'm not pushing for the EG to reveal at all. Only trying to ensure we don't get caught in a fake reveal.

Anxiety: With all the bad guys have going against them I don't think it's likely that there are two egs out there. Why SHOULD we suppose there are two egs? In your scenrario, sure it's not great. But is it a likely case?

Re-reading, you're right -- you weren't pushing for an Elite Guard reveal. I'm going to keep the vote out there, though, since it's the only thing that's really occured to me.

[Blade6119]

UNVOTE ST.CRONIN
VOTE ANXIETY

[Qwikshot]

I don't have any particular reason for anything, but I'll vote the new guy

{b]Vote Bek[/b]

1st day voting stinks

[Qwikshot]

er

Vote Bek

stupid typo

[Barkeep49]

Well he posted a vote and then disappeared. Basically the same, I feel, as a nonvote.

Vote Bek

[Barkeep49]

So with my vote I think we've started to see some consolidation. hint hint, nudge nudge.

[saldana]

qwik, the deadline is 10pm in eastern TZ, to answer your question

[Alan T]

Anxiety, lets follow out your logic a little further here and look at all possible scenerios..

A - 1 Guard
B - 2 Guards
C - 0 Guards

Now A.1 - 1 guard and we do this strat. When they reveal themselves later on, we can verify they are telling the truth. Win for us

A.2 - If we do not do this strat, and they reveal later on, we have no way to be sure if they are still telling the truth or not... We will say this is a Draw

B.1 - Person reveals they are a guard, we do this strat, but they didnt end up being the guard who got the ordered. They end up not being trusted, and we lynch someone that hurts us. Loss for us

B.2 - Person reveals they are a guard, we do not do the strat, the other guard reveals they are the guard, so we end up in a trust war, where likely end up still lynching one of our two guards. Loss for us.

C.1 or C.2 its a draw either way since it does not end up impacting anything..

So in my mind, it only benefits us to go with barkeep's plan here. I can't see any downside from it that wouldn't already be there in the case of multiple guards and a reveal.

[Blade6119]

Chubby 7
dubb93 6
Lathum 5
kingfc22 5
Tyrith 4
Bek 3

He hasnt been all that quiet, comparitively. I just think you guys are making a move off hypocritic views of posting quantity

[Alan T]

This is what I see as the current vote totals. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

St. cronin (4) - Anxiety (178), Schmidty (200), Chubby (227), Bek (304)
Bulletsponge (1) - Tyrith (196)
tyrith (1) - Kingfc (276)
Vince (1) - Coffee Warlord (220)
Dubb93 (1) - Saldana (248)
Tanglewood (1) - Lathum (256)
Bek (4) - Sndvls (266), Vince (285), Qwikshot (317), Barkeep (318)
Anxiety (2) - Alan T (275), Blade (315)
Barkeep (1) - Passacaglia (303)
Saldana (1) - dubb93 (312)

[Blade6119]

dola, dont take hypocritic the wrong way...just saying others are quiet too, no offense to anyone!

[Tyrith]

My tally has it the same except that I'm counting bullet's vote for me at the moment. No votes are path, swaggs, and tangle.

[Barkeep49]

Blade: That includes pregame activity. Bek has had NO game related activity besides the vote. Everyone else I see has at least posted a vote and a sentence or two.

[Blade6119]

My tally has it the same except that I'm counting bullet's vote for me at the moment. No votes are path, swaggs, and tangle.
Bullets vote does not count in my mind...but this is what i mean. Everyone jumps on bek, when we have 4 non-voters right now...

[Tyrith]

Right now I think everyone has just made way, way, waaaay too much out of the whole possibility of two EGs. Hoops couldn't come out and say that there would only be one because it would go against the nature of how he did roles, however, it seems unlikely there would be two because of the likelyhood it would unbalance the game later and the interaction with the pharaoh order. We shouldn't be making dollars out of pennies, here.

[Blade6119]

Blade: That includes pregame activity. Bek has had NO game related activity besides the vote. Everyone else I see has at least posted a vote and a sentence or two.
4 non voters(granted, bullet tried) should be looked at before bek to me. I think tangle and swaggs have done less then bek

[Barkeep49]

Anxiety, lets follow out your logic a little further here and look at all possible scenerios..

A - 1 Guard
B - 2 Guards
C - 0 Guards

Now A.1 - 1 guard and we do this strat. When they reveal themselves later on, we can verify they are telling the truth. Win for us

A.2 - If we do not do this strat, and they reveal later on, we have no way to be sure if they are still telling the truth or not... We will say this is a Draw

B.1 - Person reveals they are a guard, we do this strat, but they didnt end up being the guard who got the ordered. They end up not being trusted, and we lynch someone that hurts us. Loss for us

B.2 - Person reveals they are a guard, we do not do the strat, the other guard reveals they are the guard, so we end up in a trust war, where likely end up still lynching one of our two guards. Loss for us.

C.1 or C.2 its a draw either way since it does not end up impacting anything..

So in my mind, it only benefits us to go with barkeep's plan here. I can't see any downside from it that wouldn't already be there in the case of multiple guards and a reveal.
I would actually categorize C.1 and C.2 differently:

C.1 we do this strategy. Someone tries to do a fake reveal and we find out that they're a lying liar who lies. Win for us.

C.2 we don't do this strategy and it's a draw.

[Barkeep49]

4 non voters(granted, bullet tried) should be looked at before bek to me. I think tangle and swaggs have done less then bek
I would be amenable to Swaggs. Tangle I feel some sympathy for due to time zone issues and will cut a little D1 slack.

[Alan T]

I would actually categorize C.1 and C.2 differently:

C.1 we do this strategy. Someone tries to do a fake reveal and we find out that they're a lying liar who lies. Win for us.

C.2 we don't do this strategy and it's a draw.


You're right.

[saldana]

anyone have a way of getting a hold of tanglewood....he always misses the deadline on the first day...he never knows what time it is here, and then we always hold it against him, so if we start trying with 3 hours to go, maybe we can actually get him here before the deadline is past.

[Barkeep49]

Right now I think everyone has just made way, way, waaaay too much out of the whole possibility of two EGs. Hoops couldn't come out and say that there would only be one because it would go against the nature of how he did roles, however, it seems unlikely there would be two because of the likelyhood it would unbalance the game later and the interaction with the pharaoh order. We shouldn't be making dollars out of pennies, here.
I agree 100% with this post. KISS is an excellent way to look at WW and has guided me well.

[path12]

Right now I think everyone has just made way, way, waaaay too much out of the whole possibility of two EGs. Hoops couldn't come out and say that there would only be one because it would go against the nature of how he did roles, however, it seems unlikely there would be two because of the likelyhood it would unbalance the game later and the interaction with the pharaoh order. We shouldn't be making dollars out of pennies, here.

I agree with this, and since it seems to me that Anxiety has been pushing this idea the most:

Vote Anxiety

It's really the only thing I have to go on right now. I don't think quiet posters on day 1 are as bad as if it continues into days 2 or 3. There's so much that is unknown at this point that speculation just for the point of posting can create as many red herrings as helpful leads.

[Bek]

sry that i have been on and off today...the toilet and i are making good friends...i do have some ideas...i dont see a need to reveal roles this early in the game...we should be voting for those that havent been logged in today...

Unvote St Cronin

Vote bullet

[Blade6119]

sry that i have been on and off today...the toilet and i are making good friends...i do have some ideas...i dont see a need to reveal roles this early in the game...we should be voting for those that havent been logged in today...

Unvote St Cronin

Vote bullet
Ive been supporting you until this one. Bullet was around and voted, just incorrectly. Really, its swaggs and tanglewood with no votes yet, bullet just needs to re-post his vote.

[Alan T]

So interestingly enough, Bek moving his vote now makes him leader for the lynch. :)

Bek - 4
St. Cronin - 3
Anxiety - 3
Bullet - 2
Lots of others - 1

[hoopsguy]

OK, I show one difference from Alan T's votes post above - Cronin voting for Schmidty. Here is what I have listed as of Post #336:

Cronin - Anxiety (178), Schmidty (200), Chubby (227)
Schmidty - Cronin (195)
Bulletsponge - Tyrith (196), Bek (336)
Tyrith - Kingfc (276)
Vince - Coffee (220)
Dubb - Saldana (248)
Tanglewood - Lathum (256)
Bek - SnDvls (266), Vince (285), Qwikshot (316), Barkeep (318)
Barkeep - Passacaglia (303)
Saldana - Dubb (312)
Anxiety - Alan T (275), Blade (315), Path (335)

Bad vote - bulletsponge (216)

I'm hoping that Bullet comes back to update his vote (include both VOTE and the NAME in bold) before the deadline.

[Barkeep49]

I'd be up for a shift to Swaggs, BTW. Still plenty of time before lynch.

Oh kind moderator could we have one of your (in)famous vote counts?

[Blade6119]

I'd be up for a shift to Swaggs, BTW. Still plenty of time before lynch.

Oh kind moderator could we have one of your (in)famous vote counts?
Id swap to swaggs as well, but on your second point isnt the post above yours a vote count from hoops

Hoops, can you include no-votes in your list in the future by chance?

[path12]

If Blade switches to Swaggs I'd be willling to also, since at that point the Anxiety vote is wasted. But I leave in about 6 minutes so it'll have to be soon.

[Barkeep49]

Ok. So I can't read. I thought it was someone other than hoops doing the vote count. My bad.

[Blade6119]

Fair enough

UNVOTE ANXIETY
VOTE SWAGGS

[Barkeep49]

To get the ball rolling then

Unvote Bek
Vote Swaggs

[Barkeep49]

Damn you blade. I was supposed to get the change of votes in their first :) You weren't even in the thread according ot the thing when I submitted :)

[saldana]

just to weigh in on the elite guard conversation, since i realize i have been in and out of the thread twice without actually contributing...i think it is highly unlikely that there are 2 or more EG's...that would unbalance the game significantly if you consider the fact that there are other ways of being protected at night (favored by the gods, scarab of protection, protected by the avatar) it just seems to me that given all those ways of protecting players, and that there is only a 50% chance of a kill on an unprotected player, that it would tilt the scales to far to us if we had more than 1 guard

[Blade6119]

Damn you blade. I was supposed to get the change of votes in their first :) You weren't even in the thread according ot the thing when I submitted :)
My evil plan worked then, the plan to undermine barkeep at every corner

[hoopsguy]

To update the voting, I show only Swaggs and Tanglewood on the "Not Voted" list at the moment. I'll have all future vote updates tonight include that info.

[Barkeep49]

Building off the reasons saldana just mentioned I think it more likely for their to be no EGs than 2.

[saldana]

Building off the reasons saldana just mentioned I think it more likely for their to be no EGs than 2.

huh (i think barkeep went to the schmidty school of WW (read: is drunk):D )

[path12]

OK.

Unvote Anxiety
Vote Swaggs

Out until later. Your pharaoh thanks you.

[path12]

Dola. Crap, no bold:

Unvote Anxiety
Vote Swaggs

[saldana]

My evil plan worked then, the plan to undermine barkeep at every corner
dola, i would be careful admitting to anything evil in the middle of day one voting;)

[Barkeep49]

huh (i think barkeep went to the schmidty school of WW (read: is drunk):D )
If by drunk you mean bored at work ok.

I'm saying this:

Based on all the things you mentioned in your post, I think that it is more likely for their to be no EGs in the game then for there to be two EGs.

Something like this
60% - 1 EG
25% - 0 EG
15% - 2+ EGs

[Abe Sargent]

Anxiety, lets follow out your logic a little further here and look at all possible scenerios..

A - 1 Guard
B - 2 Guards
C - 0 Guards

Now A.1 - 1 guard and we do this strat. When they reveal themselves later on, we can verify they are telling the truth. Win for us

A.2 - If we do not do this strat, and they reveal later on, we have no way to be sure if they are still telling the truth or not... We will say this is a Draw

B.1 - Person reveals they are a guard, we do this strat, but they didnt end up being the guard who got the ordered. They end up not being trusted, and we lynch someone that hurts us. Loss for us

B.2 - Person reveals they are a guard, we do not do the strat, the other guard reveals they are the guard, so we end up in a trust war, where likely end up still lynching one of our two guards. Loss for us.

C.1 or C.2 its a draw either way since it does not end up impacting anything..

So in my mind, it only benefits us to go with barkeep's plan here. I can't see any downside from it that wouldn't already be there in the case of multiple guards and a reveal.


I woke up from a nap and read this and had to reread it three times. I knew it was important somehow, I just couldn't wrap my head around it.

Maybe sleep helped, but I think I figured it out. All of this is predicated on the pharoah being a good guy. I just realized that I was reading this again in order to figure it out.

Are we sure that's true?

I just don't think this strategy will work as well as any of us hope it will.

-Anxiety

[Barkeep49]

I woke up from a nap and read this and had to reread it three times. I knew it was important somehow, I just couldn't wrap my head around it.

Maybe sleep helped, but I think I figured it out. All of this is predicated on the pharoah being a good guy. I just realized that I was reading this again in order to figure it out.

Are we sure that's true?

I just don't think this strategy will work as well as any of us hope it will.

-Anxiety
I just want to say that if the pharoah is a bad guy he's a crappy pharoah. The guy could change a nation's religion and did. In fact it's thought that the change of religion by Tut's father might have led to Tut being murdered.

Anxiety: You're wrong on the idea that this requires the pharoah to be good. It merely requires them to tell the truth. In the thing game, CW was bad, but continued to tell the truth. The same thing could work here. That said I still think the initial pharoah is likely to be good. 90% likely if I had to put a number on it. Perhaps even higher.

[Blade6119]

So, 3 way tie for vote lead between cronin, swaggs, and bek...who wants to cast the deciding vote(though, none of the 3 in question have their votes on any of their rivals)

[Barkeep49]

Blade: I'm hoping tangle will show up.

Bek: I see you're in the thread and you stated earlier you have some thoughts. Care to share?

With about 2 hours to deadline I am still hoping we'll see some of the 1 vote people coalalesce around our 3 leading candidates.

[Abe Sargent]

Anxiety: You're wrong on the idea that this requires the pharoah to be good. It merely requires them to tell the truth.


Now that's a good point that I hadn't thought of, and I concede it.


-Anxiety

[saldana]

Blade: I'm hoping tangle will show up.

Bek: I see you're in the thread and you stated earlier you have some thoughts. Care to share?

With about 2 hours to deadline I am still hoping we'll see some of the 1 vote people coalalesce around our 3 leading candidates.

as much as i hate being the deciding vote on day one, you know i wont let it be a tie....if it comes down to the wire, i will change in order to make sure there is a lynch

[Blade6119]

Blade: I'm hoping tangle will show up.
Im giving him a pass on day one with his location, but i will not allow it pas that. Ive seen him be active and this deadline is later then most other games. I hope he shows, but in banking on one of bek, swaggs, or cronin deciding things.

[Barkeep49]

I think saldana is our best hope there.

And I agree Tangle doesn't get a pass past day 1.

[Blade6119]

I think saldana is our best hope there.

And I agree Tangle doesn't get a pass past day 1.
Bek is in thread, so im leaning towards him saving his own neck. His vote change that put him in the lead was so perplexing that he might not though.

[Bek]

Blade: I'm hoping tangle will show up.

Bek: I see you're in the thread and you stated earlier you have some thoughts. Care to share?

With about 2 hours to deadline I am still hoping we'll see some of the 1 vote people coalalesce around our 3 leading candidates.

Earlier i incorrectly voted for someone that had posted and in a effort of self preservation.... and this is day one voting so unfortunately i dont have any validating reason for it besides self preservation
Unvote Bulletsponge
Vote Swaggs

[Qwikshot]

Isn't Tangle a completely different time zone though...he's always on a different schedule then everyone else...

[Blade6119]

Isn't Tangle a completely different time zone though...he's always on a different schedule then everyone else...
UK i thought, so hence why were letting him pass. He usually shows up at night, so were letting it go today(though he has had all weekend...:rolleyes: )

[Alan T]

Isn't Tangle a completely different time zone though...he's always on a different schedule then everyone else...


He is either in Europe or Australia. I don't remember which. usually he is in during the day though and misses the deadline if I remember right. He should have been in by now though.. however I don't like to vote away non-voters on day 1 usually.. dunno what happened to them. But anyone who hasnt showed up or participated much past day 1 is going to be considered on day 2 by me.

[Barkeep49]

He is in England. And he often has shown up already. Still want to hear from him. Ever since poor Mark Vaughn was railroaded in his only game I try and give some leeway to our overseas brethren, though not too much :)

[Barkeep49]

By "he often has shown up already" I mean he's often been around by this time of the lynch.

[Blade6119]

He is in England. And he often has shown up already. Still want to hear from him. Ever since poor Mark Vaughn was railroaded in his only game I try and give some leeway to our overseas brethren, though not too much :)
I still feel bad about that one, though he did turn out to be a spawn to be fair.

[kingfc22]

What is the reasoning for the current swing towards Swaggs? Is it because he has not checked in?

[Qwikshot]

Well, I'm standing by my vote, I was up at 4 AM...so I'm turning in early tonight...happy trails...and see you all tomorrow (I hope).

[Barkeep49]

I still feel bad about that one, though he did turn out to be a spawn to be fair.
Details details :)

[Barkeep49]

Especially as the reasoning that got everyone there was faulty, in that no one attempted to sabatoge the mission. The dice just rolled really poorly.

[Blade6119]

What is the reasoning for the current swing towards Swaggs? Is it because he has not checked in?
There was a swing to bek for not checking in and not voting, and now bek has voted 3 times...swaggs and tangle have yet to vote/talk, and since tangle in UK were letting him slide and voting swaggs.

[saldana]

i'm out for dinner for the next hour...be back before the deadline in case the deadlock comes back.

[Tyrith]

as much as i hate being the deciding vote on day one, you know i wont let it be a tie....if it comes down to the wire, i will change in order to make sure there is a lynch

Don't have to worry about a no-lynch, path's vote is a tiebreaker.

[Barkeep49]

Don't have to worry about a no-lynch, path's vote is a tiebreaker.
I don't believe we know that to be true.

[Barkeep49]

I don't believe we know that to be true.
My bad. We do know this to be true.

[Tyrith]

General Info:
Roles are revealed by moderator/GM upon death.
Lynch every day, Pharoah initially has tie-breaker.
Deadlines: 9PM CST for lynch, 7AM CST for night actions (earlier if possible)

In the rules.

[SnDvls]

we'll I'm not moving to create a tie again

[Swaggs]

Vote Bek

[Barkeep49]

Hey Swaggs.

So what is it with people showing up with long abscense and simply voting? Did I miss a memo or something? I hate to not be in on what the cool werewolf kids are doing.

[Barkeep49]

I feel like Day 1 has gotten stronger. It has been a boring conclusion though despite the closeness of the vote.

[saldana]

so are we tied again...can a brother get a vote count

[saldana]

unvote dubb93
vote swaggs

showing up, forcing a tie, and leaving again is about as useless as not showing up

[hoopsguy]

Cronin - Anxiety (178), Schmidty (200), Chubby (227)
Schmidty - Cronin (195)
Bulletsponge - Tyrith (196)
Tyrith - Kingfc (276)
Vince - Coffee (220)
Dubb - Saldana (248)
Tanglewood - Lathum (256)
Bek - SnDvls (266), Vince (285), Qwikshot (316), Swaggs (383)
Barkeep - Passacaglia (303)
Anxiety - Alan T (275)
Swaggs - Blade (344), Barkeep (345), Path (353), Bek (365), Saldana (387)

Bad vote - bulletsponge (216)
No votes - Tanglewood

[saldana]

General Info:
Roles are revealed by moderator/GM upon death.
Lynch every day, Pharoah initially has tie-breaker.
Deadlines: 9PM CST for lynch, 7AM CST for night actions (earlier if possible)

In the rules.
iirc, the pharaoh loses the tie break if he kills an egyptian, so i would rather not have that happen on the first day.

[saldana]

dola, bek, if you turn out to be bad, you will be my new day one vote every game, even if you arent palying

[saldana]

double dola,


Playing, not palying

[Abe Sargent]

I hate it when Im palying.


-Anxiety

[saldana]

double dola, hoops you forgot to delete my vote for dubb from your list

[Barkeep49]

Gentlemen this is serious business. No palying around!

[Tyrith]

Pharaoh doesn't lose tiebreaker if he kills a friendly, he loses duke if he uses it to kill a friendly.

Side note, let's cement this, just in case.

UNVOTE BULLETSPONGE
VOTE SWAGGS

[Blade6119]

so swaggs is going down with 5 minutes left? Im ok with that result

[Abe Sargent]

Broke you dola string - nah ha!


-Anxiety

[Barkeep49]

double dola, hoops you forgot to delete my vote for dubb from your list
In what world would you be able to pull off a double dola minutes before lynch :)?

[saldana]

Broke you dola string - nah ha!


-Anxiety

bite me:mad: :D

[saldana]

In what world would you be able to pull off a double dola minutes before lynch :)?

last game i was the only one in the thread at the deadline on one day

[Abe Sargent]

I love you too, saldana.


-Anxiety

[Blade6119]

last game i was the only one in the thread at the deadline on one day
Was that after the trifecta of talk were killed? lol

[Abe Sargent]

Time Check.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

I had 10:00 ah well

[saldana]

Was that after the trifecta of talk were killed? lol

i believe it was...i think it was the day after hoops bought it, and fozzie wasnt even there

[Abe Sargent]

It's official, boogie woogie oogie.


-Anxiety

[saldana]

so wtf, swaggs showed up long enough to write 2 words, then left again? he had to have been here long enough to read up and realize who to vote for.

also, i figure we have about 20 minutes until tanglewood shows up and says "oh shit, i missed the deadline again!"

[Blade6119]

so wtf, swaggs showed up long enough to write 2 words, then left again? he had to have been here long enough to read up and realize who to vote for.

also, i figure we have about 20 minutes until tanglewood shows up and says "oh shit, i missed the deadline again!"
Basically yes, which is why i dont feel bad losing him...if hes not going to help he is as good as bad to me. Tangle, well i dont like him missing it. He had all weekend, UK or not..

[hoopsguy]

Final votes:
Cronin - Anxiety (178), Schmidty (200), Chubby (227)
Schmidty - Cronin (195)
Tyrith - Kingfc (276)
Vince - Coffee (220)
Tanglewood - Lathum (256)
Bek - SnDvls (266), Vince (285), Qwikshot (316), Swaggs (383)
Barkeep - Passacaglia (303)
Anxiety - Alan T (275)
Swaggs - Blade (344), Barkeep (345), Path (353), Bek (365), Saldana (387), Tyrith (395)
Bad vote - bulletsponge (216)
Saldana - Dubb (312)

No votes - Tanglewood

The discussion is animated, but ends with a late swing toward the largely silent Swaggs. The stoic Egyptian is brought before the statue of Osiris. The priests of Osiris make quick work of him, slitting his throat and watching him bleed out onto the sand.

The throng is quiet, and not altogether pleased with the actions. Surely a necromancer would have gone out screaming and cursing his enemies? A search of Swaggs' home reveals little, until you stumble across a ceremonial coin that is associated with a hidden society - one that is largely credited with backing the Pharaoh's rule.

Night 1 has begun.

[Schmidty]

Nice job chumps.

[Blade6119]

18. Swaggs - Ruling Class, lynched Night 1

So he was ruling class, and by the way hoops described it they would seem to all start clean...am i right?

[saldana]

Nice job chumps.

not for nothing schmidty, you know i like you, but thats a B.S. comment, considering you had nothing to say about the matter all afternoon.

[Blade6119]

*drops pin*

[Schmidty]

not for nothing schmidty, you know i like you, but thats a B.S. comment, considering you had nothing to say about the matter all afternoon.

What "matter"? I was being a smart-ass because day 1 is absolute garbage. Nothing means anything. I hate bandwagons on day 1 because they are......weak.

The fact that so many people post and try to "find something" from NOTHING, always amuses me.

[Abe Sargent]

Personally I agree with Schmidty here. Its funny


-Anxiety

[saldana]

What "matter"? I was being a smart-ass because day 1 is absolute garbage. Nothing means anything. I hate bandwagons on day 1 because they are......weak.

The fact that so many people post and try to "find something" from NOTHING, always amuses me.


fine then, i'm just saying that your smart-assedness didnt really resonate very well from your post..perhaps you may want to try attaching one of the little smiley-face things when making a post like that, such as the grinning guy or the tounge guy.:D :p

like i said, i am probably the last guy here thats gonna fight with you, but if even i took your post as somewhat asshatted, i'm sure others did as well...that is all...back to the game....

i think that todays result was 50/50 at best...we lost a member of the ruling class, but other than their need to be part of a lynch on the pharaoh, we dont really know if they have any other purpose.

[saldana]

which translates to....i think it could have been alot worse in terms of who we blindly stumbled upon.

[Schmidty]

but if even i took your post as somewhat asshatted, i'm sure others did as well...that is all...back to the game....

I am a born asshat, so it's no biggie my brother. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I just say what I think. :)

It gets me in a lot of trouble though.

[Alan T]

So.. now.. does someone else end up a member of the ruling class to replace him?

[st.cronin]

I'll catch up tomorrow or later tonight, but I'm not ready to read much from the votes on me today. I'll have some thoughts later.

[hoopsguy]

Alan T - I believe the words I used in the rules on this matter were "up to a point".

[Barkeep49]

So.. now.. does someone else end up a member of the ruling class to replace him?
Yes. I had asked Hoops about this pregame.

Also I don't think that the writeup clears all starting ruling class players in anyway. Though I will say if Swaggs had done his reveal, I would have said that there was a 2/3 chance of him being innocent and likely swung my vote elsewhere.

[Barkeep49]

I am a born asshat, so it's no biggie my brother. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I just say what I think. :)

It gets me in a lot of trouble though.
I don't think people found any reasons to vote for a person except that Swaggs didn't offer anything to help us. Asshole or not you at least provided some discussion.

[saldana]

Though I will say if Swaggs had done his reveal, I would have said that there was a 2/3 chance of him being innocent and likely swung my vote elsewhere.


thats something i have been thinking about since the day results were posted....i think it is pretty safe to say that the ruling class (or at least Swaggs) dont have anything special about them except their ability lynch the pharaoh....otherwise swaggs would have said something ( i hope) to make us go in a different direction.

[Blade6119]

I am a born asshat, so it's no biggie my brother. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. I just say what I think. :)

It gets me in a lot of trouble though.
Welcome to the life of blade

[Alan T]

Either that or he was too busy/preoccupied with RL stuff to really focus alot. And won't really realize what happened till tommorrow.

[kingfc22]

I was looking in the rules and it looks like one of us will be appointed to join the ruling class to replace swaggs.

Private Role - Neutral
These roles may or may not be in the game. There may be more than one of these roles.
- Ruling class: will have a vote that can potentially hang the Pharaoh. Upon the death of one member another member will be appointed - up to a point.

So how many members are there and do they know each other? If they do know each other, then we could probably count out those who voted for him as members of the ruling class.

Also, I wonder how their voting mechanism works against path.

[Chubby]

wow, finally caught up after getting home from work. At least I'm off the next 2 days :)

[SnDvls]

I'm pretty sure hoops said there were three...I don't know if they know eachother or not. The thought is that initinally all 3 were good, but it has yet to be determined it that was the case or not or if the new apointee would be good or could be bad as well.

[Alan T]

maybe the entire ruling class is good to start, and then as one dies, they vote on a new replacement who might be good or bad (since they have no idea when they appoint them)?

[kingfc22]

Final votes:
Cronin - Anxiety (178), Schmidty (200), Chubby (227)
Schmidty - Cronin (195)
Tyrith - Kingfc (276)
Vince - Coffee (220)
Tanglewood - Lathum (256)
Bek - SnDvls (266), Vince (285), Qwikshot (316), Swaggs (383)
Barkeep - Passacaglia (303)
Anxiety - Alan T (275)
Swaggs - Blade (344), Barkeep (345), Path (353), Bek (365), Saldana (387), Tyrith (395)
Bad vote - bulletsponge (216)
No votes - Tanglewood

Am I blind or did Dubb also not get a vote in?

[Alan T]

dubb voted for saldana, I think hoops just missed it.

[kingfc22]

No, the majority must still vote to lynch the Pharoah. However, he cannot be lynched without the three ruling class members being part of that majority.

So there would only be one lynch on that day (or on any day).

Answers my question.

[Passacaglia]

Just checking in before bedtime -- looks like I missed a lot. Did anyone have votes on Swaggs when I left? Wow. Anyway, I'll catch up in the morning.

[hoopsguy]

Thanks for the catch on Dubb's vote - it took place in Post #312. Sorry for missing it in the totals earlier. I'll update Post #409 to reflect this and leave a note in Post #1 refering to the end of day votes (easier for future reference).

[Coffee Warlord]

Just checking in before bedtime -- looks like I missed a lot. Did anyone have votes on Swaggs when I left? Wow. Anyway, I'll catch up in the morning.

I was about to say the same thing re: Swaggs. Good lord.

[hoopsguy]

Heading to bed. Just a reminder for those with night actions (that are applicable at this point in the game) to get them in by 7AM. Figured I'll try to give notice on Night 1, but probably won't make a point of issuing reminders going forward ...

[bulletsponge]

ignore this post, i think im confused a bit

[kingfc22]

bullet - There is going to be a night phase and then you can vote for tyrith.

[Tyrith]

Please, do not edit posts in Werewolf threads.

[bulletsponge]

sorry

[saldana]

sorry
BS, there are 2 main rules to Werewolf...i posted them earlier for Chubby since this is his first game too, but you must have missed them.

1. do not edit any posts, even if its just for a typo...if you need to correct yourself, quote yourself and correct it that way....this way, everything is the same for everyone regardless of when they are in the thread. if you edit something, some people may see it and some may not.

2. do not quote any PMs from the games' moderator, such as your role, any night action responses you may receive, or any other messages you may get during the game.


i just thought of another one, so i guess there are actually 3 main rules, so...

3. you cant send any PM's to any other players in the game while the game is going on, even if you are dead. if anyone PM's you during the game, you should not read the message and let the mod know so he can ask the person not to do it again ( the exception to this rule is when you are a wolf, in which case you can PM all day, or if your special role, called the Brothers in this game, allows you to PM with one or more specific players)

[saldana]

and oh yeah, always vote dubb on day 1 :D

[Alan T]

BS, there are 2 main rules to Werewolf...i posted them earlier for Chubby since this is his first game too, but you must have missed them.

1. do not edit any posts, even if its just for a typo...if you need to correct yourself, quote yourself and correct it that way....this way, everything is the same for everyone regardless of when they are in the thread. if you edit something, some people may see it and some may not.

2. do not quote any PMs from the games' moderator, such as your role, any night action responses you may receive, or any other messages you may get during the game.


i just thought of another one, so i guess there are actually 3 main rules, so...

3. you cant send any PM's to any other players in the game while the game is going on, even if you are dead. if anyone PM's you during the game, you should not read the message and let the mod know so he can ask the person not to do it again ( the exception to this rule is when you are a wolf, in which case you can PM all day, or if your special role, called the Brothers in this game, allows you to PM with one or more specific players)


I had to reread this a few times to figure out you meant BS as in Bulletsponge.. I thought you were saying Bulls...

I was thinking.. wow you sure are flipping out over this!

[kingfc22]

I had to reread this a few times to figure out you meant BS as in Bulletsponge.. I thought you were saying Bulls...

I was thinking.. wow you sure are flipping out over this!

So did I. You should really edit your post saldana.:D

[Vince]

Checking in after work...seems like another typical Werewolf day one -- lots of bluster, not much concrete, and we're just about back where we started from.

I'm also off for the next two days, however tomorrow I have a LOT of stuff to catch up with and Softball at night, so I'll probably be in and out quite a bit.

After reading through the thread since I left this afternoon, the main impression I get is that there was a LOT of vote switching today. I know it's day one, but...that was rather absurd. I gotta go get myself acquainted with the RWBL Cardinals, but I might be back later tonight to posit some more ideas.

[Blade6119]

I wont be around until 30 minutes to the deadline or less...so bear with me during the day, but i have to work all day(and us west coasters get off work when you guys are at night)

[Vince]

I wont be around until 30 minutes to the deadline or less...so bear with me during the day, but i have to work all day(and us west coasters get off work when you guys are at night)

Except for me, who goes to work just as everyone else in the world is getting off. Ah, the life of a bartender.

[hoopsguy]

The storms rage on again this night, making life miserable for anyone who sets foot outside of their home. Many of you are on edge, feeling the dark presence of the necromancers looming close. When the sun finally appears in the east everyone emerges from their homes. Your numbers remain intact; it is possible that perhaps there are no necromancers? Or that the threat has been overstated?

Day 2 has begun.

[Barkeep49]

My guess? The threat has not been overstated. No sir, no overstatement..

[Qwikshot]

All this talk of two elite guards...it is a possibility...anything is possible in this game.

We /know/ there is one pharoah.
We /know/ there is one, at least one, elite guard.
We /know/ there are multiple baddies, at least one is a boss, and a few underlings (4 or 5)
We /know/ there is one, at least one, seer.

These are the things we know...we know the ruling class lost a member due to the lynch.

These are the absolutes, along with no deaths last night. Perhaps a conversion?

This game is going to be more interesting because the baddies don't know each other, which means we can buy some time until we can find them, but like sands in the hourglass, or the Sahara for that matter, we're running out of time.

[Qwikshot]

Above when I meant (4 or 5) to baddies, that includes the boss.

[Alan T]

All this talk of two elite guards...it is a possibility...anything is possible in this game.

We /know/ there is one pharoah.
We /know/ there is one, at least one, elite guard.
We /know/ there are multiple baddies, at least one is a boss, and a few underlings (4 or 5)
We /know/ there is one, at least one, seer.

These are the things we know...we know the ruling class lost a member due to the lynch.

These are the absolutes, along with no deaths last night. Perhaps a conversion?

This game is going to be more interesting because the baddies don't know each other, which means we can buy some time until we can find them, but like sands in the hourglass, or the Sahara for that matter, we're running out of time.

I am guessing last night there wasn't a conversion. Who would they convert if they do not even know who the other bad guys are? My guess is just like we have the day time to discuss who is or is not on our side, they must have some mechanism for building their circle of trust too.

My guess is they spent last night to start working on their circle of trust instead of blindly killing anyone.

So far from what I can tell in this game, the fireworks are all going to start on day 3. Several roles don't get to do certain things till day 3, and it will take a few days for the bad guys to figure out who each other are.

[Coffee Warlord]

This game is going to be more interesting because the baddies don't know each other, which means we can buy some time until we can find them, but like sands in the hourglass, or the Sahara for that matter, we're running out of time.

However, BECAUSE they don't know each other, these early votes are doubly useless. We can't try and connect any of the votes to bad guys, because not even the bad guys know who they are voting for.

[Passacaglia]

My guess? The threat has not been overstated. No sir, no overstatement..

No, I think there are no necromancers at all! Yay, we win!

Anyway, hopefully we're not back to square one -- maybe someone will show up with a report of something that happened on Night 1.

[Barkeep49]

Qwik: How do we know there is an EG? How do we know there is a seer?

[Alan T]

No, I think there are no necromancers at all! Yay, we win!

Anyway, hopefully we're not back to square one -- maybe someone will show up with a report of something that happened on Night 1.


Its kind of funny, but it made me think of an interesting twist for a Werewolf game though... Would be fun to play a game where there might not be any wolfs at all, and the only thing against you is your own paranoia. :)

[Barkeep49]

However, BECAUSE they don't know each other, these early votes are doubly useless. We can't try and connect any of the votes to bad guys, because not even the bad guys know who they are voting for.
I believe they can search at night instead of killing. This search gives them some way of finding the other bad guys. This mechanism is not real well fleshed out in the rules but is there in the bad guy description. Presumably this is what they did last night.

[Alan T]

I believe they can search at night instead of killing. This search gives them some way of finding the other bad guys. This mechanism is not real well fleshed out in the rules but is there in the bad guy description. Presumably this is what they did last night.


Yeah, thats pretty much what I figured and mentioned above. Like I said earlier this morning I have a feeling its going to be day 3 before we really start to see things develop

[Barkeep49]

Its kind of funny, but it made me think of an interesting twist for a Werewolf game though... Would be fun to play a game where there might not be any wolfs at all, and the only thing against you is your own paranoia. :)
Also I think CW hit on a limitation on us that we don't normally have: We can't assume coordinated bad guy action. This does mean that even once we find the first bad guy the info gleaned will be of minimal value in finding the next bad guy.

Still, compared to the handicaps the bad guys have I don't think we're nearly as handicapped, so there have to be mechanics out there we don't know about.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah, thats pretty much what I figured and mentioned above. Like I said earlier this morning I have a feeling its going to be day 3 before we really start to see things develop
I wouldn't be surprised. D3 is often when games in general start to heat up and this game more so. Though I do believe some powers can't be activated until D4 as they are N3 actions.

[Alan T]

Also I think CW hit on a limitation on us that we don't normally have: We can't assume coordinated bad guy action. This does mean that even once we find the first bad guy the info gleaned will be of minimal value in finding the next bad guy.

Still, compared to the handicaps the bad guys have I don't think we're nearly as handicapped, so there have to be mechanics out there we don't know about.


Well some of our tools are limited, but our goal is still the same as every game. We need to develop ways to enlarge our circle of trust. It will kind of be like dealing with terrorist cells this game when we catch a bad guy, there is no gurantuee they will have any knowledge of any other bad guy, so not as much to go on. However if we create a tight enough circle of trust that is bulletproof, its only a matter of time to find them.

[SnDvls]

Didn't I read in the rules about a disease too...could be someone will be dying without knowing it in a few nights and we'll have multiple deaths. Some might confuse this as a good assassian role too. just wanted to get that out there.

[Barkeep49]

I agree circles of trust continue to be our best friend. Alas I have nothing to contribute to starting a circle.

[Passacaglia]

Its kind of funny, but it made me think of an interesting twist for a Werewolf game though... Would be fun to play a game where there might not be any wolfs at all, and the only thing against you is your own paranoia. :)

I think everyone would kick your ass after it was over. :)

[Barkeep49]

The head bad guy has a power to cause someone to die after 2 days. This can be used twice. I don't think he'd use it yet since presumably more efforts were made to find the bad guys.

[st.cronin]

Ok, I think it's obvious that yesterday's voting data is completely meaningless in terms of finding a necromancer. Since they are not capable of synchronizing their votes yet, and since, presumably, they don't even know who they are yet, they were voting as blindly as we were - only, instead of hoping to hit a necromancer, they were hoping to not hit a necromancer.

However, while VOTES from D1 are meaningless, POSTS are not. I haven't identified any suspects from the posts yet, but I feel sure that somebody could.

Also, I agree that the necromancers most likely spent last night searching each other out.

[Barkeep49]

In fairness to Alan I am likely going to be running a game on another forum where the game does not end for the good guys simply because they have found all the bad guys, as the good guys will be fighting with each other as well.

[st.cronin]

By the way, what is a "scarab?"

[Barkeep49]

cronin I agree posting is still useful which is why I am OK, though not happy, with voting out Swaggs. I generally think posts only become useful after we gain some more context so I'm not sure how useful a d1 examination would be but would love to hear anything you find.

[Barkeep49]

By the way, what is a "scarab?"
Basically a jewel. Often has a religous/political significance attached to it.

[Alan T]

In fairness to Alan I am likely going to be running a game on another forum where the game does not end for the good guys simply because they have found all the bad guys, as the good guys will be fighting with each other as well.


I watched a movie over the weekend for the first time called "Cry_Wolf" in it people play a WW type of game I guess, but they expand it to some bigger RL thing. It just made me think of that some :)

[Alan T]

cronin I agree posting is still useful which is why I am OK, though not happy, with voting out Swaggs. I generally think posts only become useful after we gain some more context so I'm not sure how useful a d1 examination would be but would love to hear anything you find.


The biggest problem I have with voting for someone like that on day 1 is you honestly don't know what reason is keeping them from the game. Maybe really swamped at work, or something in RL. I remember last game Blade voted for me because I wasn't there day 1 even though I said a week before the game even started that I wouldn't be in town till the following day if we started then :)

I just think it gives an easy "out" vote to bad guys that doesn't look suspicious (he wasn't here, why wouldn't I vote for him?).

I agree fully that someone who is not contributing to discussion or votes is not much better than a vote against you, but I usually like to at least give them a day or so to make sure something didn't come up. Everyone gave Tanglewood that luxury for instance but did not extend it to Swaggs. If tangle doesn't show up today I think he is fair game however.

Day 1 votes is a crapshoot no matter which way you go I suppose. Just hate to see someone kicked out if something truly came up that day.

[Barkeep49]

Well swaggs came in to post two words. Even a "I'm swamped" would have been OK. And he was in the thread at least once after that vote.

[st.cronin]

cronin I agree posting is still useful which is why I am OK, though not happy, with voting out Swaggs. I generally think posts only become useful after we gain some more context so I'm not sure how useful a d1 examination would be but would love to hear anything you find.

Nothing has jumped out at me yet. I'm very much in the dark at this point.

[Qwikshot]

Qwik: How do we know there is an EG? How do we know there is a seer?

Well, we have a Pharoah, and there is the Elite Guard order, ergo, there should be at least one Elite Guard...it makes sense.

As for the seer(s), well that's easy, reading the rules about the scarabs...they're useless unless there was a seer in the game...

This is of course Qwikshot logic not to be mistaken for Quiksand logic which is far superior.:p

[stevew]

Necromancers!

[Coffee Warlord]

I believe they can search at night instead of killing. This search gives them some way of finding the other bad guys. This mechanism is not real well fleshed out in the rules but is there in the bad guy description. Presumably this is what they did last night.

Yeah, that I understand. If I had to guess, I'd say this works much like a seer ability. Target someone at night, and find out if they are on your side.

My point was largely that the early votes are going to be even more pointless than usual. We can't hope to ascertain a bad guy pattern when the bad guys themselves don't know each other, and probably won't for a couple more days.

[Barkeep49]

Ok I'm willing to buy your seer argument. The EG bit though? Not as much. Just because a pharoah can order it doesn't mean he can order it in this game.

[Swaggs]

Well swaggs came in to post two words. Even a "I'm swamped" would have been OK. And he was in the thread at least once after that vote.

I got in late. Started to review the thread with like 25 minutes until the deadline and got a long distanced phone call, so I voted so I wouldn't miss the deadline. I was in the thread after the deadline but didn't want to be sour grapes.

[Barkeep49]

I'm sorry to hear that. I look forward to seeing you next game.

[stevew]

won't be the same without charlie around.

[Swaggs]

won't be the same without charlie around.

It never is.

[path12]

Qwik: How do we know there is an EG? How do we know there is a seer?

As far as I can tell, my night order to the EG went through (got no notification that it didn't), so I think that might point to there being one.

[Barkeep49]

As far as I can tell, my night order to the EG went through (got no notification that it didn't), so I think that might point to there being one.
I don't want to get too caught up in this since I believe there to be 1, and only 1, EG. However, I also think that hoops would play it the sameway whether there was 0, 1, 2, or 12.

[Chubby]

Ok so now we go back to what we did yesterday?

day = vote
night = hope I don't get killed

This is basically the order of operations?

[Barkeep49]

Ok so now we go back to what we did yesterday?

day = vote
night = hope I don't get killed

This is basically the order of operations?
You got it. Seems like you're well on your way to being a WW pro :)

[Chubby]

You got it. Seems like you're well on your way to being a WW pro :)

Well I gotta try and help the good guys identify the bad guys before I can be a pro :)

You suggested "outing" the EG earlier or waiting for someone to claim they are the EG? Why would someone claim to be the elite guard when they aren't?

[path12]

Well I gotta try and help the good guys identify the bad guys before I can be a pro :)

You suggested "outing" the EG earlier or waiting for someone to claim they are the EG? Why would someone claim to be the elite guard when they aren't?

If they were bad and wanted to not be lynched they might claim a good role.

[path12]

I don't want to get too caught up in this since I believe there to be 1, and only 1, EG. However, I also think that hoops would play it the sameway whether there was 0, 1, 2, or 12.

Yeah, I wasn't referring to numbers (and feel that's a blind alley), but just the fact that the order appears to have gone through suggests that there is a guard.

[Alan T]

Well I gotta try and help the good guys identify the bad guys before I can be a pro :)

You suggested "outing" the EG earlier or waiting for someone to claim they are the EG? Why would someone claim to be the elite guard when they aren't?


One of the things we try to do is validate who is on our side through the roles they may have or the actions they do. The EG is listed as one of the Good guy roles, so we know whoever it is (if we have one), is on our side.

So hypothetically speaking, if the bad guys were pretty confident they killed the EG one night before he revealed himself, one of them could pose as him and try to get our trust and into our inner circle.

So this would make you think that well the EG should come out and reveal themselves now so they don't have that chance! The downside to that is once the EG does reveal himself, he becomes a target for the bad guys to kill off. Since his role is fairly useful for us, the EG has to balance when the best time to come out and reveal is. Usually its once they have been about as useful as they can (ie: have already protected the seer or some other important role). This game complicates that decision some however since the pharoah can repeatedly order the EG to guard an important person if they choose.

[Barkeep49]

Did you recieve an affirmative resposne or just no response? An affirmative response, meaning hoops sent you something, would seem to confirm the existence. No response though I think just means no response and we're still in the world of uncertainty.

Chubby: Fake role reveals are an important part of this game. The bad guys can claim to be something they're not so we trust them and as such don't kill them.

[st.cronin]

All this talk about the EG makes me nervous. I don't want to know who the EG is, and I don't want anybody else to know either. Not yet.

[Alan T]

All this talk about the EG makes me nervous. I don't want to know who the EG is, and I don't want anybody else to know either. Not yet.


Thats why I wrote what I did. To try to encourage the EG to NOT reveal themselves at this point.

[Barkeep49]

Chubby: I have referred a few times to a circle of trust. This is an essential part of the game. The reasoning behind this was well illustrated last game: enough of us could vouch for other players that we greatly reduced the people who could be suspects. This gave us a smaller pooler to vote from and led to us eventually winning the game.

[Chubby]

Did you recieve an affirmative resposne or just no response? An affirmative response, meaning hoops sent you something, would seem to confirm the existence. No response though I think just means no response and we're still in the world of uncertainty.

Chubby: Fake role reveals are an important part of this game. The bad guys can claim to be something they're not so we trust them and as such don't kill them.

K, that makes sense. I kinda learned that basically everyone says "I'm a good guy" at the beginning so they don't look like a wolf tho it has something do with the seer tho it might not apply to this game due to hoops running it or something.

[Barkeep49]

All this talk about the EG makes me nervous. I don't want to know who the EG is, and I don't want anybody else to know either. Not yet.
Ok so would you want to know any role? Last game hoops came out as the BG exceedingly early and it turned out well for us. I agree we don't want to know who the EG is yet. But I'm trying to think of how we start to build a circle of trust without at least some role reveal. Is there any role out there we'd want to reveal? If the answer is no, which is most likely correct, how do we proceed today?

[Barkeep49]

K, that makes sense. I kinda learned that basically everyone says "I'm a good guy" at the beginning so they don't look like a wolf tho it has something do with the seer tho it might not apply to this game due to hoops running it or something.
There is a role described for this game which can test how true a sentence is. Hoops has said that not all roles are in the game so we don't know if this role is around. However, hoops has also said the role cannot test the statement "I am a good guy" or the like. So I'm not sure what kind of statements would be tested by this hypothetical role.

[st.cronin]

Ok so would you want to know any role? Last game hoops came out as the BG exceedingly early and it turned out well for us. I agree we don't want to know who the EG is yet. But I'm trying to think of how we start to build a circle of trust without at least some role reveal. Is there any role out there we'd want to reveal? If the answer is no, which is most likely correct, how do we proceed today?

I like role reveals that also give information - when hoops revealed, he was also able to provide info that allowed that circle of trust to build. There have been other honest role reveals in other games that provided no info, and were therefore useful only to the bad guys.

So at this point, unless somebody is a witness and knows a necromancer, or something like that, I'd prefer not to know any roles.

Maybe the ruling class?

[Alan T]

Ok so would you want to know any role? Last game hoops came out as the BG exceedingly early and it turned out well for us. I agree we don't want to know who the EG is yet. But I'm trying to think of how we start to build a circle of trust without at least some role reveal. Is there any role out there we'd want to reveal? If the answer is no, which is most likely correct, how do we proceed today?


I think Hoops was a bit lucky too last game with how that went. We also had a seer reveal close after to his reveal plus there were clearly a few more roles more important than the Bodyguard out there known to deal with.

I generally would say the bodyguard is good to keep in your back pocket until you have your seer reveal.. so you can have extended life from your seer. That does not apply to all games, but its something nice to have in my opinion. Coming out as the bodyguard before the seer reveal usually ends up in a dead bodyguard and no one to protect the seer.

That said, I agree fully about coming out with roles when there are ways to validate them. Thats how the circle is formed.. but on certain roles that are key to exposing the bad guys, keeping them in the back pocket until they can provide us more info is good I think.

You wouldn't want your seer to come out day 1 and say i dont have any info for you all, but I'm the seer!