Werewolf: Hunt for Necromancers - GAME OVER! Post #3469

[dubb93]

Doesn't it seem like SnDvls's statement in that post #644 would be false no matter what? I mean, if king keeps his vote on Sndvls, there's NO chance we lynch a necromancer? That's automatically untrue, as king's vote along does not decide who we lynch. Or am I nitpicking?

I'm pretty sure you are nitpicking b/c I got what I believe to be a "ture" statement. However in true Hoops fashion he never used the words true or false in his reply;) . It's not about the wording exactly as the guy that is saying its intent.

Plus, when I'm doing that, I'm looking at it. As in, "If we keep our votes on SNDVLS there is no chance we get a nec?, true/false?"

[Barkeep49]

Well in fairness the votes could be kept on SnDvls and still we'd have a chance to get a necro since more votes could accumulate to someone else.

Anyhow I'm willing to trust Dubb and SnDvls. So turning in another direction would be good. I would still really like to hear if someone got a message similar to what Lathum got on D2.

[Coffee Warlord]

Unvote Dubb

Back to the list I brought up last night, I guess.

[dubb93]

Well in fairness the votes could be kept on SnDvls and still we'd have a chance to get a necro since more votes could accumulate to someone else.


Once again, you are looking at it wrong. It is about intent. What did SNDVLS mean when he said that? The response I got was that SNDVLS was not trying to decieve me. He really felt if we all kept our votes on him that we wouldn't get a nec. He was hiding nothing from us with that statement.

My role does not give me a simple true/false like it has in other games. It deals with the persons intent and the fact if they are hiding anything from the group with that statement.

[Barkeep49]

Once again, you are looking at it wrong. It is about intent. What did SNDVLS mean when he said that? The response I got was that SNDVLS was not trying to decieve me. He really felt if we all kept our votes on him that we wouldn't get a nec. He was hiding nothing from us with that statement.

My role does not give me a simple true/false like it has in other games. It deals with the persons intent and the fact if they are hiding anything from the group with that statement.
Fair enough. Like I said I believe you and sndvls now. Which is a huge start for us, having two known goods.

[Coffee Warlord]

Well in fairness the votes could be kept on SnDvls and still we'd have a chance to get a necro since more votes could accumulate to someone else.

I was thinking of that as well, but in reality...that's a reach. A really really long reach. Reminds me of those old D&D Wish spells, where a vicious GM would take whatever you wished for, no matter how intricate, and fuck you over. Just a little too ridiculous, in my book. I as well will take his word.

[Alan T]

So trust list as I can think of right now is:

Path, dubb, sndvls and pending someone today getting a message like Lathum, him .

I think thats the next step for today is someone vouching Lathum's story. The other loose end was the references to Vince making a claim that he had more information on other people.

Some other questions I have is in regards to path and the helmet from yesterday, did you find you could do anything with it? Did anyone find anything about someone replacing Swaggs in the ruling class?

[Barkeep49]

These are all good questions Alan. I still think having the ruling class do a reveal would be helpful.

[dubb93]

These are all good questions Alan. I still think having the ruling class do a reveal would be helpful.

I on the other hand don't. If we assume the ruling class right now is good, the "evil" ruling class can knock them off one or two at a time if they reveal and before we know it we got a nec sitting on the throne.

[path12]

So trust list as I can think of right now is:

Path, dubb, sndvls and pending someone today getting a message like Lathum, him .

I think thats the next step for today is someone vouching Lathum's story. The other loose end was the references to Vince making a claim that he had more information on other people.

Some other questions I have is in regards to path and the helmet from yesterday, did you find you could do anything with it? Did anyone find anything about someone replacing Swaggs in the ruling class?

I asked, but I do not know what the helmet is used for. I'm holding onto it for the time being.

[Chubby]

Hopefully dubb isn't doing what barkeep said he would do if he was a necro soothsayer...

Moving on to others for now is probably a good idea however i would agree.

[dubb93]

Hopefully dubb isn't doing what barkeep said he would do if he was a necro soothsayer...

Moving on to others for now is probably a good idea however i would agree.

:rolleyes: , give me more credit than that. If I was a nec I wouldn't use my role on day 2 to clear SNDVLS.:rolleyes:

[Chubby]

:rolleyes: , give me more credit than that. If I was a nec I wouldn't use my role on day 2 to clear SNDVLS.:rolleyes:

ummm, true.

Since I think you are on most people's "good guy" list, who do you think we should look at? I had a top 3 but it's in pretty shabby shape right now since one was already on my "pretty sure he's good" list and now you're added to that list as well.

[dubb93]

ummm, true.

Since I think you are on most people's "good guy" list, who do you think we should look at? I had a top 3 but it's in pretty shabby shape right now since one was already on my "pretty sure he's good" list and now you're added to that list as well.

I have no clue. There is too little information. It seems to me like we are barely starting to hit what could possibly be considered a normal day 2. With only two dead, limited ability to do anything with voting records, and no night kills I think it is nearly impossible to have much of a suspect list at this point.

[Tyrith]

I think assuming there is a necro soothsayer just because there is a good one is a bit of a reach. The role was neutral, so what? It doesn't mean it has to stay neutral once roles were assigned. While it is certainly possible there are two, we shouldn't jump to that conclusion.

So it appears last night we got another round of search for necros. Even if two necros found each other night one it was still a good play for them to search again last night and consolidate their base. If we assume we have five necros that means up to half the players have been searched now (because they do have to search each other); however, I am more likely to believe that if we have five necros that seven or eight people have been searched now because someone out of the cronin/blade/barkeep group probably took two searches from hopeful necros and there's a pretty decent chance of some overlap otherwise. It isn't until the next night or two that we can probably expect to see full team bad guy coordination as the rest of the players get searched out. And I think it's important for us to remember that once this happens we're going to be facing two night kills a night, as four necros can do two guarenteed kills, or two necros plus the head necro using disease will get two kills eventually.

My suspects for today also go back to the cronin list. I'll assume for now that dubb isn't pulling a fake on us, as it seems consistent with what he said yesterday when he was hoping it wouldn't come to a reveal. Saldana isn't brazenly dumb enough to do what he did if he were a bad guy in all likelyhood. Anxiety's vote seemed innocent enough...he didn't do his usual thing where he tries to convince us, but saldana was doing it for him, and that method has gotten him killed two games in a row. Schmidty's vote was almost certainly just schmidty being schmidty. Tangle's vote was a dogpile, and Vince's was a lesser degree of dogpile. That leaves the three in the middle -- Alan, barkeep, and bullet. And bullet could theoretically be pulling the do good innocent newbie trick on us, just a little less quiet than I did it. Otherwise, out of those three, I really have no idea.

[SnDvls]

:rolleyes: , give me more credit than that. If I was a nec I wouldn't use my role on day 2 to clear SNDVLS.:rolleyes:


ha ha...thanks I guess dubb :)

not sure how to take the rolleyes though :confused:

are you saying I"m not worth clearing or I'm a waste of a person to clear?

:D

[saldana]

dubb, sorry i wasnt early enough this morning to save you from having to make your reveal....i thought it was pretty obvious what your role was yesterday when you used it....it was just a matter of reading SNDVLS posts to figure it out, which is what i would have told everyone that was on you early to do, but was still sleeping until after you outed yourself

as of right now, i am leaning towards Lathum for my vote today...he claims he got the "someone is watching you message" 2 nights ago, but no one got it last night, so if we are assuming that the seer scanned him, that would mean the seer didnt scan anyone last night, or that they scanned a Necro, and the wolf isnt aware they were scanned. since there is still some doubt for me, i may look elsewhere and give lathum the benefit of the doubt for another day.

i thought barkeep was high in my Circle, but i realized something last night that downgraded him back to neutral, and the fact that he pushed so hard on dubb early this morning kind of drops him below neutral...he and chubby both were pretty fast to jump on the dubb train this morning, and i would have expected BK to have seen the same thing i saw yesterday in the sndvls situation.

[dubb93]

ha ha...thanks I guess dubb :)

not sure how to take the rolleyes though :confused:

are you saying I"m not worth clearing or I'm a waste of a person to clear?

:D

I'm saying that if I was a nec I would probably have waited till much later to make a move and used it to try and set up a win.

Since we are both egyptians you are more than worth clearing[as would be any innocent that was headed for the gallows], however playing it from the other side it would be completely stupid to clear a villager on day 2, when there are much more devious ways to play with the role.

My role eyes were not directed at you in any way.

The way I look at it the game is all about information. If say on day 6 or so, I could have cleared 2 people, we got a seer clearing multiple people that are still alive to come out, and if we are confident the ruling class is good and they all come out that makes the game that much easier. I would rather clear people than finger baddies with a seer or soothsayer role. First it forces the bad guys hands.

They can't look for more important roles when someone comes out with multiple cleared people. The way I look at it, if I play this right clearing two innocents can be just a good as getting a nec with my role.

[Lathum]

I'm not really surprised that no one has come out and said they were viewed last night. The only reason I did it was because I thought it was possible that other people also had the same thing happen and we could start to develope some circles of trust.

That being said it is obvious I was scanned by the seer and not a necro. At this point it would be extremely foolish for someone else to say they were scanned last night. All that would do would be to narrow the search fields for the necro's and give them an advantage. For every person who is cleared as a "good guy" that helps the necro's find each other. I would be very suspiscous of anyone who wants someone to come out and say they were scanned so I think one of 2 things happened.

1. Seer scan and another "good guy" was cleared

2. Seer scanned a necro and he doesn't want to come out with the information until he has to.

Either way I am not at all surprised no one has come out to validate my story and I would rather they didn't because all it does is help the necro's.

[tanglewood]

Dubb's role reveal makes sense, so I think that he and SnDvls can be placed in the trusted pile for now.

I think that some of the more active players, Barkeep, AlanT and so on, are perhaps more likely to be necros. From my pount of view, the necros need to find each other as quickly as possible, the sooner they meet up the quicker they can start killing, the longer the more likely one of them or more gets offed. So, the necros have to talk and make themselves visible, they have to attempt to stand out, not necesarily hinting that they are bad just get noticed, so that the other necros pick them at night to search for. Of course, even assuming this is true, it's difficult as you can easily conflate players who are naturally active with thos e deliberatley trying to put themselves out there more than ususal. I know that Barkeep always says that more communication always helps the villiage, but in this game I'm not so sure that is exclusively true, more communication helps everyone, so low-liers are not so likely to be bad guys here as they are perhaps normally.

[tanglewood]

I'm not really surprised that no one has come out and said they were viewed last night. The only reason I did it was because I thought it was possible that other people also had the same thing happen and we could start to develope some circles of trust.

That being said it is obvious I was scanned by the seer and not a necro. At this point it would be extremely foolish for someone else to say they were scanned last night. All that would do would be to narrow the search fields for the necro's and give them an advantage. For every person who is cleared as a "good guy" that helps the necro's find each other. I would be very suspiscous of anyone who wants someone to come out and say they were scanned so I think one of 2 things happened.

1. Seer scan and another "good guy" was cleared

2. Seer scanned a necro and he doesn't want to come out with the information until he has to.

Either way I am not at all surprised no one has come out to validate my story and I would rather they didn't because all it does is help the necro's.

If anyone did come out, do you have any information you could use to verify some commonanilty between you two viewings?

[Alan T]

I'm not really surprised that no one has come out and said they were viewed last night. The only reason I did it was because I thought it was possible that other people also had the same thing happen and we could start to develope some circles of trust.

That being said it is obvious I was scanned by the seer and not a necro. At this point it would be extremely foolish for someone else to say they were scanned last night. All that would do would be to narrow the search fields for the necro's and give them an advantage. For every person who is cleared as a "good guy" that helps the necro's find each other. I would be very suspiscous of anyone who wants someone to come out and say they were scanned so I think one of 2 things happened.

1. Seer scan and another "good guy" was cleared

2. Seer scanned a necro and he doesn't want to come out with the information until he has to.

Either way I am not at all surprised no one has come out to validate my story and I would rather they didn't because all it does is help the necro's.


I disagree a little bit here. You saying you are cleared because you were scanned by the seer doesn't necessarily mean that should be what all of us believe. By having someone back up your statement helps us put you on our trust lists without having to have a seer reveal. So yea, it tells the necros you are cleared and the other person is cleared thus saving them from having to scan you themselves.. but us knowing we can trust you is far greater in my opinion than them knowing that we know we can trust you.

Its becoming obvious the way this game is designed that we have a few day head start on the bad guys here. Worst case scenerio, after several days they finally know who is on their side. Thats normally day 1 for them. Right now we are doing their work for them. They are not doing night kills so we need to stop killing good guys during the day.

If we can clear a few people without having to reveal the seer its a good thing for us. Without anyone else coming forward we have no way to validate you today. If you were a bad guy it could be a very good day 1 plot to lure out the seer by saying you got scanned when you didnt. Any game i have been in I would happily give up one bad guy for the seer in most cases (with obvious exceptions in end game scenerios.)

[bulletsponge]

But if Dubbs is the seer (good seer) he scaned SnDvls that first night, not you. so either there is a second necro seer or your lying. im betting on a necro seer, because Dubbs hasnt mentioned your good or evil.


Hmm. Trying to think of how to express it without being insulting. I don't have a problem with the questions being asked or new players not quite sure what to make of things. But I feel with Chubby's questions there is a bigger consistancy to what he does and does not know. Whereas a few posts like the one I quoted from bullet seem to be more inconsistant.. I would expect someone who has some decent idea of bad guy strategy to know the basic flow to the day's order (ie: night action results, discussion, vote, lynch, night action).

Not looking to make a huuuge deal about it though. just something that jumped out at me. Maybe I'm trying too hard to read into people's behavior here.

its hard to be insulted when i cant understand what your trying to say about me, or Chubby

[Alan T]

But if Dubbs is the seer (good seer) he scaned SnDvls that first night, not you. so either there is a second necro seer or your lying. im betting on a necro seer, because Dubbs hasnt mentioned your good or evil.




its hard to be insulted when i cant understand what your trying to say about me, or Chubby


Dubbs did not say he was the seer. he said he was the soothsayer. Which means he has the ability to once every 3 days read a line from someone's posts and find out if they were trying to deceive us or not with the words.

[SnDvls]

But if Dubbs is the seer (good seer) he scaned SnDvls that first night, not you. so either there is a second necro seer or your lying. im betting on a necro seer, because Dubbs hasnt mentioned your good or evil.




its hard to be insulted when i cant understand what your trying to say about me, or Chubby

Dubb said he isn't the seer he said he's the soothsayer

[SnDvls]

damn alan beat me to it

[Schmidty]

Alright, I'm going to finally wade through all the pages since yesterday. Might take a while because I'm pretty busy today, but I'll try to have some thoughts long before the deadline.

I can't keep up with you jokers.

[Abe Sargent]

Dubb's role reveal makes sense, so I think that he and SnDvls can be placed in the trusted pile for now.

I think that some of the more active players, Barkeep, AlanT and so on, are perhaps more likely to be necros. From my pount of view, the necros need to find each other as quickly as possible, the sooner they meet up the quicker they can start killing, the longer the more likely one of them or more gets offed. So, the necros have to talk and make themselves visible, they have to attempt to stand out, not necesarily hinting that they are bad just get noticed, so that the other necros pick them at night to search for. Of course, even assuming this is true, it's difficult as you can easily conflate players who are naturally active with thos e deliberatley trying to put themselves out there more than ususal. I know that Barkeep always says that more communication always helps the villiage, but in this game I'm not so sure that is exclusively true, more communication helps everyone, so low-liers are not so likely to be bad guys here as they are perhaps normally.


If someone were talking an unusual amount this game, I'd agree that'd be suspicious, but Barkeep is just being Barkeep.

-Anxiety

[bulletsponge]

Dubbs did not say he was the seer. he said he was the soothsayer. Which means he has the ability to once every 3 days read a line from someone's posts and find out if they were trying to deceive us or not with the words

Dubb said he isn't the seer he said he's the soothsayer

sorry my mistake, have to go read what the seer does then

[bulletsponge]

is the seer called something else, on the first page rules i dont see anything about him except that the dreamweaver can look for him

[dubb93]

- Mystic: Option to view one player per night. Can summon an Avatar, but must forego seeing for three days to do this (summon on Night 4).

That is the seer.

[hoopsguy]

The conventional "Seer" role is the Mystic in this game. Although that role does have some tweaks beyond the normal "Seer" ...

[path12]

Strikes me that if the seer is taking a few days off in order to summon the avatar that might be a reason nobody is reporting being seen last night.

[Alan T]

Strikes me that if the seer is taking a few days off in order to summon the avatar that might be a reason nobody is reporting being seen last night.


I don't think they can do that till night 3.

[Lathum]

Alan- I know I an a good guy but I never once came out and said I was cleared. The only way I could be cleared is if the seer clears me and I have said a number of times I don't want the seer to come out, I would rather be lynched then have the seer come out. I am a meannless villager and the seer is to valuable to us.

[dubb93]

In the event the seer got a nec last night there is a good chance he is waiting until he can summon his Avatar before he comes clean with everything.

The could explain the whole Lathum situation today. I don't think it is a good idea to lynch Lathum today, give it a few days so someone can either come clean or the seer can summon his Avatar and then reveal his information.

[Alan T]

I agree with that dubb. I think there are probably 15-17 people to look at before Lathum right now. same thing as with you... Both of you could be lying or misleading us.. but its Risk vs reward. We have ways to most likely confirm you and Lathum later. So no sense in going after someone who we have a good possibility of being good.

[path12]

I don't think they can do that till night 3.

I could be reading wrong yet again, but took that they had to forgo seeing for three days in order to summon to mean that they had to forgo the days first and then summon day 4 or beyond. But I guess it could be that they have to forgo for three days afterwards.....

[saldana]

I don't think they can do that till night 3.

they cant summon it until night 3, that doenst mean they can take nights off before then to build up to it.

[Alan T]

oh, I guess I had read it as by summoning the avatar they would not be able to scan for 3 days. You might be right path now I reread it.

[dubb93]

But I guess it could be that they have to forgo for three days afterwards.....

That was my understanding. I'm betting on a rule clarification at some point today.

[SnDvls]

does the seer have to take 3 straight nights off...doesn't seem like it so it could explain a little...just thinking out loud

[Barkeep49]

Tangle: I think it's a self serving argument to say that quiet people are less likely to be bad considering how quiet you've been this game. I grant you that the bad guys need to figure each out, but I can't imagine they've had much more success from this thread than we've had figuring things out. We do indeed have a headstart so it would be nice to nail one of them today.

[dubb93]

does the seer have to take 3 straight nights off...doesn't seem like it so it could explain a little...just thinking out loud

Well even if he does he still could have decided not to summon the Avatar and instead just concentrate on scanning.

[Abe Sargent]

Question:

I was rereading the rules and I had a question. It says that a normal Nec dies if they attack the EG. Does this mean if they actually attack the EG or if they attack who the EG guards?

If it's latter, then that makes attacking less likely to be successful, especially if the EG lasts for a while.

-Anxiety

[hoopsguy]

Mystic can't scan for three days prior to summoning the Avatar. So there is some sacrifice on his part prior to bringing in the Avatar, not after bringing in the Avatar.

[Alan T]

ok, then that would make perfect sense. Night 1 scan, then take off 2, 3, 4 to summon the avatar on night 4. (or would they not be able to summon till night 5?)

[SnDvls]

ok, then that would make perfect sense. Night 1 scan, then take off 2, 3, 4 to summon the avatar on night 4. (or would they not be able to summon till night 5?)


I would think night 5 as they must take off 3 nights.

[Vince]

I know hindsight is 20/20 and all, but I'm surprised reading through the events of this morning that NO ONE seemed to pick up on the soothsayer role for dubb until after his role reveal. I mean, no one even suggested it, and it seemed like one of only 4 options (Brothers, Mystic, Bad Guys Corroborating, Soothsayer) for how he knew 100%. Well, like I said, hindsight is 20/20.

I'm not exactly with Lathum on this one though -- while I do agree that the Mystic should do everything they can to stay under the radar at this point, I don't see it as a bad thing that someone else would come out and say they had been scanned. Sure, it might help the necromancers find each other more quickly...but we need information just as badly as they do. If we keep lynching each other, it's technically helping our cause (simply by giving us more information) but at a much slower rate, while helping the necromancers at the same time. So if, as we all seem to believe, you were scanned two nights ago by the mystic and you came out clean, if even ONE more person were to come out about having been scanned and we don't lynch them because of it, that's a victory in my book.

[Vince]

The short version of that post is as follows:

I think that having a "known good guy" (via a reveal of someone being scanned last night) is worth enough to offset the cost of helping the bad guys figure out who they are.

[SnDvls]

the mystic might not have scanned last night in building up for the Avatar

[Chubby]

I don't really have much to add at this point other than observing other's disccussions. I have no idea who I'm going to vote for at this point.

[Passacaglia]

These are all good questions Alan. I still think having the ruling class do a reveal would be helpful.

Again with this?

VOTE BARKEEP49

A ruling class reveal is only helpful to the necromancers.

Anyway, damn, dubb, you might have been okay if you just hadn't made that first post where you mentioned that you were thinking of voting for SnDvls. Then again, either way, the necros might have been wary of you. Anyway, I'm still wary of you, too -- as was said before, soothsayer is a neutral role, so it doesn't clear you as an Egyptian. It could be that you found out that SnDvls was a necromancer, as are you. Just food for thought.

[hoopsguy]

In regards to the guard question, it depends on if the necromancers attack solo or in pairs.

If they attack solo, and attack the bodyguard, then they die. Keep in mind that if they attack the person guarded by the bodyguard, that is going to be attacking the bodyguard. So they die in this case as well.

If they attack in tandem, then the bodyguard fights them off but does not identify the attackers.

[Vince]

Man, bodyguard is a powerful role in this game.

[Tyrith]

I think that whoever got scanned last night should only reveal if they come under fire today. They can reveal after night actions come in, but there is definately merit to not helping the necros along with their search.

[SnDvls]

Again with this?

VOTE BARKEEP49

A ruling class reveal is only helpful to the necromancers.

Anyway, damn, dubb, you might have been okay if you just hadn't made that first post where you mentioned that you were thinking of voting for SnDvls. Then again, either way, the necros might have been wary of you. Anyway, I'm still wary of you, too -- as was said before, soothsayer is a neutral role, so it doesn't clear you as an Egyptian. It could be that you found out that SnDvls was a necromancer, as are you. Just food for thought.

are you questioning dubbs validity to being the soothsayer? so in turn questioning me?

what would be the downfall of knowing the ruling class now? I'd at least like to know who got Swaggs spot.

[dubb93]

are you questioning dubbs validity to being the soothsayer? so in turn questioning me?

what would be the downfall of knowing the ruling class now? I'd at least like to know who got Swaggs spot.

I've already mentioned the downfall of the knowing the ruling class. If we assume they are good then the "evil" class could easily kill them in a matter of days once they are revealed. At that point we could have a nec on the throne. It is much to early for the current ruling class to reveal.

[dubb93]

And I'm not arguing with the vote for barkeep. He pushed me on something he should have picked up on. Also pushing for the ruling class to reveal is shifty to say the least in my book.

[SnDvls]

so let's only find out who got swaggs spot.

we'd still have a 2/3rds edge. would that be too overboard?

[dubb93]

And in order for us to skip 3 seer scans this freakin Avatar better be more powerful than we are being led to believe. No way 3 scans is worth a glorified body guard that everyone is going to know is the Avatar since he will be played by someone joining the game on that night.

[Vince]

I'm wondering why Blade has been so quiet in this game? I know he mentioned somewhere yesterday that he had to catch up, but I missed the reason for it. It seems very un-Blade-like for him to be so quiet...almost to the point where I want to vote for him because of it.

No, I just want to vote for him because it's Blade :)

[dubb93]

so let's only find out who got swaggs spot.

we'd still have a 2/3rds edge. would that be too overboard?

I think so b/c we are not even close to a desparate situation yet. Letting them know any of the ruling class could be a mistake. We don't know the full situation for another class taking over. What if only 2 have to be killed for another class to take over?

Or what if it is a situation where currently there are 1 nec and 2 egyptians on the ruling class and the new appointed guy is randomly selected. An egyptian reveals himself and gets killed and a nec gets appointed leaving 2 necs and 1 egyptian on the ruling class. At this point they could kill Path and appoint a nec to the throne.

We just don't know how it works. They shouldn't reveal.

[SnDvls]

I think so b/c we are not even close to a desparate situation yet. Letting them know any of the ruling class could be a mistake. We don't know the full situation for another class taking over. What if only 2 have to be killed for another class to take over?

Or what if it is a situation where currently there are 1 nec and 2 egyptians on the ruling class and the new appointed guy is randomly selected. An egyptian reveals himself and gets killed and a nec gets appointed leaving 2 necs and 1 egyptian on the ruling class. At this point they could kill Path and appoint a nec to the throne.

We just don't know how it works. They shouldn't reveal.

we do know how it works they all three have to vote for path

[Alan T]

I dont understand why everyone is assuming the ruling class is all good. I think it is likely path is good as the starting pharoah. But is there something somewhere that says being in the ruling class means they are good to start?

Without knowing how Swaggs was replaced (if he was), we dont know if its a way to let a bad person into the ruling class either. I guess alot of people are making alot of assumptions in this game that i don't quite see gurantueed for us.

[Blade6119]

I'm wondering why Blade has been so quiet in this game? I know he mentioned somewhere yesterday that he had to catch up, but I missed the reason for it. It seems very un-Blade-like for him to be so quiet...almost to the point where I want to vote for him because of it.

No, I just want to vote for him because it's Blade :)
Im just finished catching up with everything from when i left last night. Ill be gone for about 2 hours, then around for about 2-3, then gone for the day. I promise ill talk during my time home a little later, just a bit busier these days.

VOTE TANGLEWOOD

I havent seen a reason to change my vote yet from yesterday, as i still dont think he has contributed much(granted, neither have i but such is). I might change it later, might not. In the scheme of things it will prob. matter little.

[Tyrith]

Barkeep's little role reveal push has got me a bit on edge, too. Why do we need to know who they are? Their role isn't critical to us right now. More information helps the necromancers as much, if not a little more than it helps us right now, because they'll know for certain who their friends are. Later on we can go back into the barkeep/hoops let's dig up everything game, but right now it's not good, and the fact that barkeep does this often would made good cover for a bad guy. I want to hear what other people have to say about this.

[Vince]

we do know how it works they all three have to vote for path

Well, doesn't path have to be the majority vote by everyone AND the ruling class has to be a part of that majority?

[SnDvls]

Without knowing how Swaggs was replaced (if he was), we dont know if its a way to let a bad person into the ruling class either. I guess alot of people are making alot of assumptions in this game that i don't quite see gurantueed for us.

we do know they are replaced per the rules (up to a point) so the point has stopped at 21 players vs 22? doesn't make sense.

[kingfc22]

So much to read with this many players.

Anyways, Dubb is reasonably high up on my trust list along with SnDvls now. So without any information from night 2, it looks like we are going to have to look at who might have wanted to silence cronin.

So for now, I'm going to vote for the one person who was going back and forth with cronin yesterday. And is one of 2 players to have voted for the lynchee both days.

Vote Saldana

[dubb93]

we do know how it works they all three have to vote for path

Did I miss something? All it says in the rules is they will have a vote to lynch the Pharaoh. That could simply mean a majority vote.

[SnDvls]

Well, doesn't path have to be the majority vote by everyone AND the ruling class has to be a part of that majority?


no...I asked hoops this directly...I'll find the post again...one moment.

[kingfc22]

Man, bodyguard is a powerful role in this game.

I think it is there to balance with the fact that the necromancers could get 2 guaranteed kills per night supposing there are 4 of them.

[Blade6119]

NOTE: THE SOOTHSAYER IS A NUETRAL ROLE...DUBB COULD HAVE IT AND BE BAD...

ok, go about your days

[SnDvls]

No, the majority must still vote to lynch the Pharoah. However, he cannot be lynched without the three ruling class members being part of that majority.

So there would only be one lynch on that day (or on any day).


post #264 my question is a few before it

[Alan T]

we do know they are replaced per the rules (up to a point) so the point has stopped at 21 players vs 22? doesn't make sense.


I think you missed what I was saying. We have no idea how a member of the ruling class is replaced or if it has occured yet. Right now we do not know much information about them at all. So I find the comments that they all have to be good and an asset not necessarily wild, but its not anything that I feel has been gurantueed for us yet.

Right now I don't see exactly what the ruling class does for us other than keeping them from lynching the pharoah. However hoops said the majority of us have to vote for path in addition to the ruling class.. so anyone pushing for a path lynch right now will be setting off all kinds of warning bells.

[Passacaglia]

are you questioning dubbs validity to being the soothsayer? so in turn questioning me?

what would be the downfall of knowing the ruling class now? I'd at least like to know who got Swaggs spot.

I'm just saying that while I believe dubb is a soothsayer, he could be a necromancer soothsayer. However, the one who first brought this up is Barkeep, who I already don't trust. He could be trying to plant the idea that dubb is evil, since he's pretty sure dubb is good.

[Alan T]

NOTE: THE SOOTHSAYER IS A NUETRAL ROLE...DUBB COULD HAVE IT AND BE BAD...

ok, go about your days


Several of us have already said this blade. It doesnt make sense to push for a lynch on him right now though knowing what we do know. We just can't clear him based on this reveal is all.

[saldana]

i said earlier that i was surprised barkeep didnt pick up the method that dubb used to clear sun yesterday, which has the hairs on the back of my neck standing up. i did pickup on it right away, and didnt say anything because that would just paint a big target on dubb in case the necros needed one for last night.

vote barkeep

[Blade6119]

Several of us have already said this blade. It doesnt make sense to push for a lynch on him right now though knowing what we do know. We just can't clear him based on this reveal is all.
I really didnt see it, so i posted..sorry if it has been said before. Im just exploring all routes

[SnDvls]

Well, doesn't path have to be the majority vote by everyone AND the ruling class has to be a part of that majority?

yes you are correct after rereading the question again. so by knowing at least one person we can at least see what is happening if the vote swings towards path at some point and get a read on that person...yes it could be down the line, but it might be very important then as it is now.

again I don't want to know all 3 people just the person who replaced swaggs.

[saldana]

So much to read with this many players.

Anyways, Dubb is reasonably high up on my trust list along with SnDvls now. So without any information from night 2, it looks like we are going to have to look at who might have wanted to silence cronin.

So for now, I'm going to vote for the one person who was going back and forth with cronin yesterday. And is one of 2 players to have voted for the lynchee both days.

Vote Saldana


king, ive got nothing to say about this...i didnt like the fact that we were just gonna vote for bek because he wasnt here, so i seized on something i thought was out of character for cronin and pushed it...i was wrong, and honestly, i am surprised you are the first person to vote for me.

[saldana]

dola, at this point, i am pretty annoyed with myself for moving the vote off of him, and he still isnt freakin' here.

[SnDvls]

vote Tyrith

been too quiet for my liking in this game and I believe a necro voted in my same block yesterday. gut feeling

[Passacaglia]

Hey guys...I was just heading back to my home, and noticed a ceremonial dagger lying on the floor. It reminded me of the events last night, that I must have blocked out during my early-morning slumber (i.e., i didn't noticed I had a PM until just now).

I woke up suddenly in the middle of the night, to find that I was being attacked. With an adrenaline rush, I managed to break free. As soon as I started to gain the upper hand, the attacker ran off, and once I got outside, I couldn't find him. This dagger I found (which is ceremonial, so I assume it has no special powers) appears to be something a necromancer would use.

Anyway, I'm glad to be alive, but the whole thing kind of freaks me out. Who would want to kill ME?!?

[Vince]

SnDvls -- I think Alan is suggesting that the ruling class might not be replaced on a 1-for-1 basis (for example, they might not be replaced until they're all killed). However, I think this is not very likely.

I'm out for a while to run errands...I'll be back later.

[kingfc22]

king, ive got nothing to say about this...i didnt like the fact that we were just gonna vote for bek because he wasnt here, so i seized on something i thought was out of character for cronin and pushed it...i was wrong, and honestly, i am surprised you are the first person to vote for me.

Well, right now I'm leaning towards your or barkeep. And since barkeep was already getting some heat and talking. I figured I'd try to get your opinion on things. By no means is this vote set in stone.

[Tyrith]

The problem is again our lack of information. So many of us are compulsive analyzers and we're turning molehills into mountains due to lack of other things to go on...I'm not sure how much better off we are. But Barkeep does have alarms going off for me right now.

[Vince]

And right as I leave, the shit hits the fan. Sweet.

[SnDvls]

I know this is a little off topic and a tangent right now, but want people to be aware of it and thinking about it


- The Prophecy: the coming of this one has been foretold. But will he bring victory to the forces of life or death? Note - only hidden role in the game. Cannot be detected by seer, does not show up as a necromancer if 'sought'.


could be on either side and help good or evil...just my thoughts...back to the lynching votes

[kingfc22]

And right as I leave, the shit hits the fan. Sweet.

Indeed it has.:D

[SnDvls]

SnDvls -- I think Alan is suggesting that the ruling class might not be replaced on a 1-for-1 basis (for example, they might not be replaced until they're all killed). However, I think this is not very likely.

I'm out for a while to run errands...I'll be back later.

ah okay I see

[saldana]

Well, right now I'm leaning towards your or barkeep. And since barkeep was already getting some heat and talking. I figured I'd try to get your opinion on things. By no means is this vote set in stone.


i havent been able to be on as much today as yesterday, my daughter isnt feeling well IRL

[Alan T]

SnDvls -- I think Alan is suggesting that the ruling class might not be replaced on a 1-for-1 basis (for example, they might not be replaced until they're all killed). However, I think this is not very likely.

I'm out for a while to run errands...I'll be back later.


Not really what I was suggesting. I was suggesting we dont know how they are replaced. do we know they are instantly replaced the next day? maybe its a vote thing, or some other action has to occur to promote someone into the ruling class.

I guess what I am saying is there are alot of people who assume to know alot more about the ruling class than I do right now that I don't think are safe assumptions

[saldana]

pass, thats an excellent piece of information...glad you noticed the PM....i thought it was pretty unlikely for the necros to all spend another night searching, but from the sounds of your message, you won the coin toss on living or dying, too bad you didnt win the 20% shot at finding out who it was.

[Tyrith]

vote Tyrith

been too quiet for my liking in this game and I believe a necro voted in my same block yesterday. gut feeling

All I can say is what the fuck to this. I didn't post a bunch of shit on Day One and pregame because we didn't have any idea what was going on. As soon as I fucking got HOME yesterday I was posting. And we STILL don't have any idea what's been going on and I've been calling for caution all day. The rest of it I can deal with, but come on, that's horribly weak, especially when there are 11 living players below me in post count.

[Alan T]

I think people are making a mistake with barkeep. We see this every game. The people who are most vocal and try to throw out the most things to talk about are the ones taken out early unless they have some method to vouch for themselves.

I haven't seen that much from Barkeep so far that was really far stretches. I think while i have not agreed with all of his points, he definitly has been asking some questions that are important. In fact I think he has been one of the few vocal ones that haven't been steering people to votes blindly. Many others have been assuming alot, voting on those asumptions and saying for folks to just blindly trust them.

Maybe I am being fooled completely here, but the feel I get from barkeep right now is he has been filling the role that hoops does in alot of games as conversation starter. Hoops gets heat many games for it, but its important for someone to pick up that role. If we do not have some direction for our conversations, we will stumble along blindly for days while the bad guys finish us all off.

I guess I am just getting a completely different feel from barkeep than most of you do. I think there are many others who are better choices today than him. I also think there are others who have been much more instrumental in guiding our votes to good guys so far as well.

[dubb93]

VOTE BLADE6119

I'm pretty lost right now and the alternative seems to be Barkeep right now. I'll vote Blade simply b/c he isn't playing like Blade. Lame, but I have nothing else to go on right now.

[Tyrith]

Hey guys...I was just heading back to my home, and noticed a ceremonial dagger lying on the floor. It reminded me of the events last night, that I must have blocked out during my early-morning slumber (i.e., i didn't noticed I had a PM until just now).

I woke up suddenly in the middle of the night, to find that I was being attacked. With an adrenaline rush, I managed to break free. As soon as I started to gain the upper hand, the attacker ran off, and once I got outside, I couldn't find him. This dagger I found (which is ceremonial, so I assume it has no special powers) appears to be something a necromancer would use.

Anyway, I'm glad to be alive, but the whole thing kind of freaks me out. Who would want to kill ME?!?

I wouldn't be so sure about the dagger. Could have some weird magic power or something, and there seems to be a bit of a focus on items in this game.

[Tyrith]

VOTE BLADE6119

I'm pretty lost right now and the alternative seems to be Barkeep right now. I'll vote Blade simply b/c he isn't playing like Blade. Lame, but I have nothing else to go on right now.

I think we need to be careful how much we cross up people being busy with them being quiet. Blade is a good enough player that if he were bad he wouldn't make it so obvious, and he really seems to enjoy antagonizing us anyway ;) I've noticed that we keep killing people for being quiet when it's just RL issues, and it's soemthing we need to watch out for.

[Lathum]

I am leaving for work in a few but since I don't have much to go on I am going to stick with my vote from yesterday.

VOTE CHUBBY

[dubb93]

I think we need to be careful how much we cross up people being busy with them being quiet. Blade is a good enough player that if he were bad he wouldn't make it so obvious, and he really seems to enjoy antagonizing us anyway ;) I've noticed that we keep killing people for being quiet when it's just RL issues, and it's soemthing we need to watch out for.

Him being quiet has nothing to do with it. It is just the way he has been playing while he's been in. Not Blade like. He's yet to accuse anyone. He seems to want to stay under the radar, could be a product of him being killed so early in the past when he plays a bad guy. Also he's been on my ass pretty hard while not coming right out and saying he doesn't trust me.

[bulletsponge]

im still a little suspicious of Dubbs, its not hard for me to believe that he has pulled the wool over our eyes. all he said was that he was the soothsayer and he knows that SnDvls is good. well he could have guessed that and had no harm come to him cause if Sndvls is bad he would have picked up on the lye and recognized a fellow necro right then. if sndvl was good he would have just assumed that Dubbs is telling the truth, and would then believe him.
on top of that the soothsayers role is neutral, which means he could be a necro. im not going to vote for Deebs because odds are he is good, and loosing him would be bad for us, but if he hands me a glass of kool-aid no way in hell im going to drink it

[Tyrith]

I think people are making a mistake with barkeep. We see this every game. The people who are most vocal and try to throw out the most things to talk about are the ones taken out early unless they have some method to vouch for themselves.

I haven't seen that much from Barkeep so far that was really far stretches. I think while i have not agreed with all of his points, he definitly has been asking some questions that are important. In fact I think he has been one of the few vocal ones that haven't been steering people to votes blindly. Many others have been assuming alot, voting on those asumptions and saying for folks to just blindly trust them.

Maybe I am being fooled completely here, but the feel I get from barkeep right now is he has been filling the role that hoops does in alot of games as conversation starter. Hoops gets heat many games for it, but its important for someone to pick up that role. If we do not have some direction for our conversations, we will stumble along blindly for days while the bad guys finish us all off.

I guess I am just getting a completely different feel from barkeep than most of you do. I think there are many others who are better choices today than him. I also think there are others who have been much more instrumental in guiding our votes to good guys so far as well.

I have to agree with your assessment by and large, although I'd like to note that the quiet players have been the ones getting killed lately, not the loud ones. After 26 there has been a lot of pressure on the quiet players to speak up, and they've been punished, such as the mckerney/tanglewood Day 1/2 in 27, and all the pressure on swaggs, bek, and such this game. The balance has really started to swing. Yesterday's cronin vote does show some of that, but it's not as bad as it used to be at all.

[bulletsponge]

Hey guys...I was just heading back to my home, and noticed a ceremonial dagger lying on the floor. It reminded me of the events last night, that I must have blocked out during my early-morning slumber (i.e., i didn't noticed I had a PM until just now).

I woke up suddenly in the middle of the night, to find that I was being attacked. With an adrenaline rush, I managed to break free. As soon as I started to gain the upper hand, the attacker ran off, and once I got outside, I couldn't find him. This dagger I found (which is ceremonial, so I assume it has no special powers) appears to be something a necromancer would use.

Anyway, I'm glad to be alive, but the whole thing kind of freaks me out. Who would want to kill ME?!?


well well, it looks like someone tried to kill Passacaglia last night. does anyone have a grudge against him?

[Chubby]

I don't have anything more to go on than I did yesterday after the dubbs reveal. I have no major alarms going off for anyone so I'm going to stick with the person I voted for yesterday since I still haven't seen that much of him (and no post giving a reason why he wouldn't be online). I'm not to sure I agree with the person that said "it may not be beneficial for the wolves to be quiet this game"...

Vote Bek

pending any information that comes out before 10pm EST. I'm very interested in why someone would go after Pass

[dubb93]

"Free Kool-Aid. Any takers?"

[Tyrith]

Him being quiet has nothing to do with it. It is just the way he has been playing while he's been in. Not Blade like. He's yet to accuse anyone. He seems to want to stay under the radar, could be a product of him being killed so early in the past when he plays a bad guy. Also he's been on my ass pretty hard while not coming right out and saying he doesn't trust me.

He did caution us about you pretty hard. Making accusations and really doing all the shit blade does do takes time to read and think about everything. We've made a TON of posts. I think it's possible he's just kinda swamped. Also possible he's trying to do some UTR thing, too, like you said.

[Vince]

"Free Kool-Aid. Any takers?"

Ooh, me! Me! Pick Me!!!

This game is like crack. I can't stay away.

[Abe Sargent]

I know hindsight is 20/20 and all, but I'm surprised reading through the events of this morning that NO ONE seemed to pick up on the soothsayer role for dubb until after his role reveal. I mean, no one even suggested it, and it seemed like one of only 4 options (Brothers, Mystic, Bad Guys Corroborating, Soothsayer) for how he knew 100%. Well, like I said, hindsight is 20/20.

I'm not exactly with Lathum on this one though -- while I do agree that the Mystic should do everything they can to stay under the radar at this point, I don't see it as a bad thing that someone else would come out and say they had been scanned. Sure, it might help the necromancers find each other more quickly...but we need information just as badly as they do. If we keep lynching each other, it's technically helping our cause (simply by giving us more information) but at a much slower rate, while helping the necromancers at the same time. So if, as we all seem to believe, you were scanned two nights ago by the mystic and you came out clean, if even ONE more person were to come out about having been scanned and we don't lynch them because of it, that's a victory in my book.


I had guessed Soothsayer, which is why I didn;t want everybody jumping up and down over Dubb and brining more attention to him.

-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

In regards to the guard question, it depends on if the necromancers attack solo or in pairs.

If they attack solo, and attack the bodyguard, then they die. Keep in mind that if they attack the person guarded by the bodyguard, that is going to be attacking the bodyguard. So they die in this case as well.

If they attack in tandem, then the bodyguard fights them off but does not identify the attackers.


Thanks hoops!


-Anxiety

[Coffee Warlord]

Whelp, since Dubb is likely on the up and up, I'm moving back to another target that was briefly touched upon last night.

Vote Saldana

Note: I will not be around for tonight's lynching. May be around for a brief period once I get home from work (at around 5:30ish cst), but that's it.

[Vince]

I just got a call from a buddy of mine from Texas -- he's got a job interview here tomorrow, and he's flying in this evening around 6 PST. I'll probably not be around for the lynch, as we're going out to dinner. Should be around until about 4 or 5 though.

[dubb93]

:Gives Vince a free glass of Kool-Aid:

"It's a wonder new invention of mine. I discovered the recipe while I was soothsaying around. Now I'd love to stay around and argue over who's bullshitting who, but I really need to get to this new eatery the Pharaoh opened called Red Lobster. I'll be back to argue semantics later."

[Vince]

I had guessed Soothsayer, which is why I didn;t want everybody jumping up and down over Dubb and brining more attention to him.

-Anxiety

The more I think about it, the more I realize that even if I was here I don't know what I would have done other than say "I don't think we should have a role reveal."

[Abe Sargent]

Vote Bek

I don't like lynching new guys early, I want them to enjoy their first game, plus you can't assess their gaming style until you have some evidence, but I think its time to push Bek.

[Barkeep49]

So in my defense:

I hear what people are saying when they say that this game is different and taht the bad guys have a lack of knowledge just as the good guys do. And to this I sort of go: so what?

Time and time again one strategy, and only 1 strategy, has proven effective at winning games for the humans: Circles of Trust. The look at Schmidty's game, where despite us nailing a whole bunch of bad guys we got killed. We got killed because we could not rely on the information we had. I am somewhat unapologetic about many role reveals if they allow us to start trusting people. I would love if there was another way for the good guys to win the game. But I don't see it. My actions are consistent throughout games: get information out there.

And as has already been stated, the main thing I have tried to do this game is start discussion. In fact in many games I try and start discussion. Now some could argue that I might be trying to start discussion while avoiding certain points. With the exception of my list this morning, I don't think I've tried to steer anyone. I've put out questions. I have made points I think important about the rules. But I haven't tried to steer with that one exception. And even then I "steered" it towards half the players in the game. Hardly useful, as I even said at the time. When Coffee, I believe, disagreed with my list I didn't defned it too hard because it was of such limited use. And that, was my "steering" of the discussion.

Finally for dubb: Yup I missed it. No doubt about it. But I've missed other stuff too. It's why I ask questions.

So that's what I have to say. I don't really have anybody in mind today, I have more people who I do trust, rather than people who I don't trust. So I don't know where my vote is going.

[kingfc22]

Gah, not much has been covered since I was last on. I have to work again today, but should be here for the deadline on thursday and friday.

I'm going to leave my vote on saldana since I don't really have any other feelings other than barkeep.

[Barkeep49]

Vote Bek

I don't like lynching new guys early, I want them to enjoy their first game, plus you can't assess their gaming style until you have some evidence, but I think its time to push Bek.
Bek hasn't played in a while, but it's not his first game. He's said a couple of times he has some ideas. I know I'd love to hear what they are.

[Tyrith]

Bleh. For lack of better options right now. I'd rather keep the more talkative players in the game for entertainment and informational reasons.

VOTE BEK

[Abe Sargent]

I thought he was new because I hadn't ever read a game with him.

I'm happier voting for him now, so thanks!

I still want to push him, though, just to see what happens. Maybe he'll give those ideas, maybe not.

-Anxiety

[Passacaglia]

well well, it looks like someone tried to kill Passacaglia last night. does anyone have a grudge against him?

I have no idea. I don't think I make a very good lynch candidate, either. The only one I've really spoken out against is Barkeep, and I don't think he would really be blunt enough to go after me -- even though, I voted for him Day 1, didn't say anything about him Day 2, and I get attacked Night 2, then it's not until Day 3 that I vote for him again. Maybe it's another necro trying to cast suspicion on Barkeep?

[Passacaglia]

I have no idea. I don't think I make a very good lynch candidate, either. The only one I've really spoken out against is Barkeep, and I don't think he would really be blunt enough to go after me -- even though, I voted for him Day 1, didn't say anything about him Day 2, and I get attacked Night 2, then it's not until Day 3 that I vote for him again. Maybe it's another necro trying to cast suspicion on Barkeep?

I meant assassination candidate, not lynch candidate.

[Barkeep49]

I have no idea. I don't think I make a very good lynch candidate, either. The only one I've really spoken out against is Barkeep, and I don't think he would really be blunt enough to go after me -- even though, I voted for him Day 1, didn't say anything about him Day 2, and I get attacked Night 2, then it's not until Day 3 that I vote for him again. Maybe it's another necro trying to cast suspicion on Barkeep?
Let's be clear: You disagree with me on the role reveal of the EG. Doesn't make me want to kill you :)

[Barkeep49]

I meant assassination candidate, not lynch candidate.
Wouldn't be surprised since I am an easier target being such a "quiet" player and all :)

[Abe Sargent]

I think a lot of antagonist strategy in any game is to kill some randoms that cannot be connected to anyone. You winnow the herd while also getting a shot at hitting the important role players that stay silent early in teh game.

-Anxiety

[Passacaglia]

Let's be clear: You disagree with me on the role reveal of the EG. Doesn't make me want to kill you :)

We disagree on what we disagree on. :) I disagree with you on the role reveal of the ruling class -- I *thought* you said you weren't pushing for the role reveal on the EG.

And like I said, I don't think you'd kill me for it -- I just think you're the only person I've come even close to accusing.

[Tyrith]

I think a lot of antagonist strategy in any game is to kill some randoms that cannot be connected to anyone. You winnow the herd while also getting a shot at hitting the important role players that stay silent early in teh game.

-Anxiety

The strategy works too. It was what I was thinking during 26. You get rid of the players that aren't likely to tremendously impact the choice of the consensus target(s) during the day and that haven't fessed up to their roles yet, and then either let or provoke the talkative players into barking up the wrong tree a lot of the time, buying time to kill people at night. There is a reason why talkative players get left in the game sometimes.

[Blade6119]

Him being quiet has nothing to do with it. It is just the way he has been playing while he's been in. Not Blade like. He's yet to accuse anyone. He seems to want to stay under the radar, could be a product of him being killed so early in the past when he plays a bad guy. Also he's been on my ass pretty hard while not coming right out and saying he doesn't trust me.
Dubb, you have been just as out of character as well. I openly admit ive been quiet, but its RL stuff and not on purpose. Im here for 3 hours if you want to play

[Blade6119]

So I did some research.

There was a lot of discussion about cronin on D1. This was pretty helpful. Now granted much of it was discussion of the early pile on about him, but still helpful. The following players, from my not too detailed but still OK reserach, commented on cronin specifically:
Blade (who cast the first vote before cronin voted suspiciously)
Anxiety (cast first vote after cronin voted suspiciously
Barkeep (questioned suspicious vote)
Saldana (questioned explanation of suspicious vote)
Chubby (votes for cronin in retaliation)
Schmidty (Votes for cronin in retaliation)

King, SnDvls, Alan and Blade all are pretty upfront about questioning why there was such an early pile on cronin.

So I'm willing to eliminate everyone from that group, for the time being, of being the head necro except for Blade. Blade comes right off the bat voting for cronin. Later backs away and asks aghast. This seems like good cover to me.

I am also excusing Tangle as there is no indication he got on anytime during day 1/night 1, whether to submit a night order or day vote. I am also excusing path as I do not believe the pharoah also would start as the head necro, though that is a bit more of a logical leap. But I wish to have a more managable list and so for the time being I am willing to do that. So that leaves, in my mind, the following candidates to be head necro:
2. Passacaglia
7. Dubb
11. Lathum
12. Coffee Warlord
13. bulletsponge
14. Qwikshot
15. Tyrith
16. Bek
17. Blade6119
19. Vince

Now some of those people I feel more suspicous about then others, but it is, for me, a starting point for today at least until more info is known.
Day one i voted for cronin becuase he made a tom brady joke(which, like the trout joke, i just dont find funny). Then a pile on him comes, which i dont like and dont see a reason for. I end up swinging it to swaggs instead of pushing for cronin when we had him by the throat.

Then, day 2, i neither am around or have any mention of cronin. I literally dont show up until 10 minutes till the deadline, making me silencing him or leading the charge to kil him utterly and entirely impossible....come on BK...

[Blade6119]

Hey guys...I was just heading back to my home, and noticed a ceremonial dagger lying on the floor. It reminded me of the events last night, that I must have blocked out during my early-morning slumber (i.e., i didn't noticed I had a PM until just now).

I woke up suddenly in the middle of the night, to find that I was being attacked. With an adrenaline rush, I managed to break free. As soon as I started to gain the upper hand, the attacker ran off, and once I got outside, I couldn't find him. This dagger I found (which is ceremonial, so I assume it has no special powers) appears to be something a necromancer would use.

Anyway, I'm glad to be alive, but the whole thing kind of freaks me out. Who would want to kill ME?!?
Does your role influence this? I mean, did you expect this to happen(like favoured), or was it just odds. And he really left his knife? Thats odd.

[Passacaglia]

Does your role influence this? I mean, did you expect this to happen(like favoured), or was it just odds. And he really left his knife? Thats odd.

Did I expect to survive an attack? No. From the rules, if one necro attacks solo, he has a 50% chance of making the kill. I assume I got lucky.

[path12]

I'm going to be gone for at least a few hours, hope to be back in time for lynch tonight.

To get a vote in the meantime, I'm just going with the person who seems most suspicious, I don't have a lot of reasons but he does seem to know more about this game than he might for his experience level:

Vote bulletsponge

[Barkeep49]

Blade: I didn't realize that Tom Brady was a votable offense. I wasn't trying to stretch there but with no explanation I didn't get what was happening.

[Barkeep49]

Can someone post a vote count? I think I'm in the lead but beyond that don't know where things lie. I've actually had to do some work at work this afternoon which has greatly interfered with my ability to be on top of this WW stuff :)

[Barkeep49]

Blade: I didn't realize that Tom Brady was a votable offense. I wasn't trying to stretch there but with no explanation I didn't get what was happening.
And I say this completely sincerely. No sarcasm.

[Blade6119]

And I say this completely sincerely. No sarcasm.
No worries, just trying to explain to you why i think my inclusion in that list is totaly bullocks:)

[Barkeep49]

No worries, just trying to explain to you why i think my inclusion in that list is totaly bullocks:)
Fair enough. At this point I'm not such a fan of the list anyway.

[Passacaglia]

Fair enough. At this point I'm not such a fan of the list anyway.

And I'm not such a fan of the Tom Brady jokes, either. Maybe I missed something that makes it really funny, but whatevs.

[bulletsponge]

I'm going to be gone for at least a few hours, hope to be back in time for lynch tonight.

To get a vote in the meantime, I'm just going with the person who seems most suspicious, I don't have a lot of reasons but he does seem to know more about this game than he might for his experience level:

Vote bulletsponge

well i do pm hoops to get answers to rules and other questions. and i have never played a game like this before. i dont have a leading canidate for my vote tonight so i will once again vote for payback

Vote Path

this vote is subject to change as last night

[Tyrith]

Let me do this before I post a new vote count. This thought was rattling around in my head before, but I think path is right about bullet. Someone screwed with cronin yesterday, along with our vote, and this is the best guess I have right now. Bek is just trying to get a quiet player to speak up.

UNVOTE BEK
VOTE BULLETSPONGE

[Tyrith]

Bullet, i suggest you change that vote. Revenge is not a good motivation for votes in this game, especially when you are voting for a known good guy. Gotta kill bad guys and not kill good guys to win the game.

[Passacaglia]

Bullet, i suggest you change that vote. Revenge is not a good motivation for votes in this game, especially when you are voting for a known good guy. Gotta kill bad guys and not kill good guys to win the game.

Word. That one almost slipped past my radar. I'm not convinced that the Pharoah has to be good, and even if he starts good, I'm assuming he can turn evil somehow. But still, with the ruling class and all, you CAN'T just vote for the Pharoah for no reason -- you've got to have SOME explanation!

[Tyrith]

Current votes:

Bek - 2: anxiety (1116), chubby (1106)
Bullet - 2: path (1133), tyrith (1141)
Barkeep - 2: pass (1053), saldana (1079)
Saldana - 2: coffee (1112), king (1070)
Dubb - 1: Alan (966)
Tangle - 1: blade (1066)
Path - 1: bullet (1140)
Blade - 1: dubb (1098)
Chubby - 1: lathum (1101)
Tyrith - 1: sndvls (1084)

[Tyrith]

No votes so far: barkeep, bek, qwikshot, schmidty, tanglewood

[SnDvls]

right now my vote is wasted

unvote Tyrith
vote Bek

[SnDvls]

dola

unvote bek
vote bullet

[SnDvls]

double dola - not a smart vote for path IMO

and didn't see his vote for path prior to my last change.

[Blade6119]

Bullet, i suggest you change that vote. Revenge is not a good motivation for votes in this game, especially when you are voting for a known good guy. Gotta kill bad guys and not kill good guys to win the game.
When did we find out path was good? I dont think we did, so unless im mistaken dont slam him for a vote that has as good a chance of being right as yours is

[Passacaglia]

right now my vote is wasted

unvote Tyrith
vote Bek

How is a vote wasted, with the votes so spread out? I mean, with the leader at a whopping 2, you're already thinking it's time to join a bandwagon? One vote for Tyrith puts him in the lead.

[Passacaglia]

When did we find out path was good? I dont think we did, so unless im mistaken dont slam him for a vote that has as good a chance of being right as yours is

Because we better be DAMN sure we know what we're doing if we lynch the Pharoah. The rules don't say anything about what happens if the Pharoah dies, but my guess is that chances are, it won't be good.

[Tyrith]

When did we find out path was good? I dont think we did, so unless im mistaken dont slam him for a vote that has as good a chance of being right as yours is

If path is bad we have almost no way of winning the game because we can't kill him at night and we'd have to have three good ruling council members ALL agree with us. Furthermore, he'd have the power to kill three good guys, one at day, two at night, without any real chance of retribution. Don't you damn tell me path has just as much a chance of being a bad guy as the rest of us.

[Passacaglia]

How is a vote wasted, with the votes so spread out? I mean, with the leader at a whopping 2, you're already thinking it's time to join a bandwagon? One vote for Tyrith puts him in the lead.

Granted, bullet, who now has 3 votes on him, had the best chance to die anyway, since path's tie-breaking vote was on him.

[Blade6119]

If path is bad we have almost no way of winning the game because we can't kill him at night and we'd have to have three good ruling council members ALL agree with us. Furthermore, he'd have the power to kill three good guys, one at day, two at night, without any real chance of retribution. Don't you damn tell me path has just as much a chance of being a bad guy as the rest of us.
He does, and those exact reasons should make you more afraid of him then any other. Dont trust him becuase their are roadblocks. Wonder why those roadblocks are in place. He is a public role, not a egyptian role. Just saying, he is in no way clear

[Tyrith]

He does, and those exact reasons should make you more afraid of him then any other. Dont trust him becuase their are roadblocks. Wonder why those roadblocks are in place. He is a public role, not a egyptian role. Just saying, he is in no way clear

Those aren't "roadblocks", they're pretty much impossibilities. We'd have to have three good members of the Ruling Council and get them all to play along. And we'd have no bodyguard for most of the game. Although I'm fairly certain this is why hoops didn't say he was on our side, but come on blade. He also specifically stated the reason for his vote as revenge, and the vote doesn't do anything without any popular support behind it.

[Tyrith]

Out until after lynch.

[saldana]

again, i am in that lovely position where i fucked up yesterday and am on the block for it today. perhaps i can engender a bit of trust from one of my votes since king doesnt want to move....at this point i will be saving my casting in case i need it for self preservation later.

unvote barkeep

[tanglewood]

Bek's vote strikes me as a combination of inexperience and stupidity, not anything malicious or an indicator that he may be a necro. Just take your vote off him Bek, he won't be lynched today no matter what anyway.

I had actually forgotten that soothsayer is neutral role until Blade's bolded post, so thanks for that it was of some use after all. :)

[Barkeep49]

WHy is he invincible at night? My fear is not that path is evil but that whoever would become pharoah after path was killed would be evil.

[Vince]

But if we suspect path is bad, then all we have to do is find out which member of the ruling class isn't supporting his ouster, and we lynch them. I think that on the off chance that we decide path is bad, a necromancer on the Ruling Council would be happy to kill path off -- give himself a chance to become Pharaoh, and also solidify some trust.

[Blade6119]

Those aren't "roadblocks", they're pretty much impossibilities. We'd have to have three good members of the Ruling Council and get them all to play along. And we'd have no bodyguard for most of the game. Although I'm fairly certain this is why hoops didn't say he was on our side, but come on blade. He also specifically stated the reason for his vote as revenge, and the vote doesn't do anything without any popular support behind it.
Why would we lose the bodyguard? And no, it could be bad guys too. They do not all know each other yet. Hell, they might not know a soul yet. The bad guys are just as afraid of path.

I dont see where we lose a lot by killing him...he cant issue orders to the EG(oh no, he gets to do it himself *gasp*). A new one is appointed. His helmet goes somewhere. I dont get why you think its soo impossible hes bad, or that he can be killed.

[Vince]

We'd lose the bodyguard because Path has the ability to order the bodyguard around. So he could just order the bodyguard to protect someone that he's not going after, therefore eliminating his benefit.

[Barkeep49]

We'd lose the bodyguard because Path has the ability to order the bodyguard around. So he could just order the bodyguard to protect someone that he's not going after, therefore eliminating his benefit.
Well presumably our BG would do a reveal at that point to let us know what was happening.

[Blade6119]

We'd lose the bodyguard because Path has the ability to order the bodyguard around. So he could just order the bodyguard to protect someone that he's not going after, therefore eliminating his benefit.
The bodyguard can only be lost in death or if the pharoh orders him every night to do a bad thing. Killing path would eliminate that second option, thus making the bodyguard more free. Granted, someone else will come along. I just dont understand why path is soo trusted, when i see no reason other then people are afraid of him

[Tyrith]

Vince said it. And the EG order is not bound by the every other night rule, so if he was afraid of the fanatic he could pretty much barricade himself in his room.

[Vince]

Well presumably our BG would do a reveal at that point to let us know what was happening.

The only way I can see this being the case is if the guard guessed right in the first place; i.e. he chooses to defend XXX, gets re-routed to YYY, XXX dies during the night. If the guard chooses to defend AAA, the pharaoh orders him to defend BBB, and CCC dies during the night, I don't think that's concrete evidence that the pharaoh is bad.

[Tyrith]

I trust path because making him bad makes this game almost impossible for us to win, and because I don't believe hoops is stacking roles on us. Pharaoh + some other bad guy power, likely head, is giving one person a TON of power over the game.

[Tyrith]

I have to start wondering if blade is trying to screw with us now, with all the other stuff said about him playing differently considered. I'm leaving my vote where it is, but I'm going to be thinking about this.

[Blade6119]

Vince said it. And the EG order is not bound by the every other night rule, so if he was afraid of the fanatic he could pretty much barricade himself in his room.
The EG isnt tied to path. If path goes, the EG stays...i dont see a link other then path can order him around, but in doing so will likely get himself killed eventually.

I just dont think he is what you all seem to think he is

[Vince]

The bodyguard can only be lost in death or if the pharoh orders him every night to do a bad thing. Killing path would eliminate that second option, thus making the bodyguard more free. Granted, someone else will come along. I just dont understand why path is soo trusted, when i see no reason other then people are afraid of him

I don't trust path. I'm not suspicious of him, but I don't trust him.

You're missing Tyrith's point a little -- IF path is bad, we're already shooting blanks with our guard. There isn't much we can do about it, either. The process of killing path will (probably) take a few days, at the least, and the bad guys will know what we're doing fairly early on, and will plan accordingly. If we try to lynch path, we have to either have three reveals, or just hope that the ruling class is with us, therefore risking a no-lynch day. Which is a pretty bad situation. Combine the fact that there might be a necromancer on the ruling class, and we're looking at some serious roadblocks to getting rid of the pharaoh.

[Blade6119]

I trust path because making him bad makes this game almost impossible for us to win, and because I don't believe hoops is stacking roles on us. Pharaoh + some other bad guy power, likely head, is giving one person a TON of power over the game.
Look at some of our roles..they balance..add the phropecy to the game and no amount of power dis-balances things. I think, you sir, are assuming they know each other and are all plotting powerful acts. I think they are a disjointed mess with maybe 2 finding each other so far.

It makes it far from impossible though, dont think it does for a second

[Blade6119]

I don't trust path. I'm not suspicious of him, but I don't trust him.

You're missing Tyrith's point a little -- IF path is bad, we're already shooting blanks with our guard. There isn't much we can do about it, either. The process of killing path will (probably) take a few days, at the least, and the bad guys will know what we're doing fairly early on, and will plan accordingly. If we try to lynch path, we have to either have three reveals, or just hope that the ruling class is with us, therefore risking a no-lynch day. Which is a pretty bad situation. Combine the fact that there might be a necromancer on the ruling class, and we're looking at some serious roadblocks to getting rid of the pharaoh.
Why are we shooting blanks. Im under the impression so far path hasnt issued a single order. Its not he has to, its a choice. So far, ive assumed the EG has decided everything on his own. Where did path say he has ordered the EG around?

[saldana]

just to clarify and reinforce what blade is saying, not necessarily agreeing, just pointing out, that there is nothing in the rules that prevents Path from dying at night.

[Vince]

Look at some of our roles..they balance..add the phropecy to the game and no amount of power dis-balances things. I think, you sir, are assuming they know each other and are all plotting powerful acts. I think they are a disjointed mess with maybe 2 finding each other so far.

It makes it far from impossible though, dont think it does for a second

Blade, you're digging yourself deeper and deeper, in my opinion. Look at the prophecy...what do we know about the prophecy? We don't even know that the prophecy is an aid to the good guys. Then, there's your statement at the end...

What makes what far from impossible? The combination of factors you presented in the first paragraph make the statement "Path must be good" far from impossible? "Don't think it does for a second." What does that mean?

[Vince]

Why are we shooting blanks. Im under the impression so far path hasnt issued a single order. Its not he has to, its a choice. So far, ive assumed the EG has decided everything on his own. Where did path say he has ordered the EG around?

The only people who would know are Path and the Guard. Do you think the Guard is going to come out and say "Hey, guys, I was ordered somewhere else last night. Gee, I hope they don't try to kill me now." And, in our dream scenario, if path is bad, he's not about to come out and talk about how he is redirecting the guard.

[hoopsguy]

Votes as of Post #1174:

Dubb - Alan T (966)
Barkeep - Pass (1053)
Tanglewood - Blade (1066)
Saldana - King (1070), Coffee (1112)
Blade - Dubb (1098)
Chubby - Lathum (1101)
Bek - Chubby (1106), Anxiety (1116)
Bulletsponge - Path (1133), Tyrith (1141), SnDvls (1147)
Path - bullet (1140)

Not Voted - Barkeep, Schmidty, Saldana, Qwikshot, Bek, Vince, Tangle

[Vince]

Ok, I'm going to take a step back, because I know Blade is just positing ideas, and that I actually agree that Path might be bad. But damn if it seems like he's trying to be ornery on purpose :)

[Coffee Warlord]

I simply cannot fathom that path would start out as evil, ESPECIALLY if there's a ruling class member who is also evil. It would basically make it damn near impossible to overthrow him.

[bulletsponge]

is path the pharaoh?

well that just put the neuce around my neck didnt it. ill change my vote later

[Blade6119]

Blade, you're digging yourself deeper and deeper, in my opinion. Look at the prophecy...what do we know about the prophecy? We don't even know that the prophecy is an aid to the good guys. Then, there's your statement at the end...

What makes what far from impossible? The combination of factors you presented in the first paragraph make the statement "Path must be good" far from impossible? "Don't think it does for a second." What does that mean?
We dont know it, but it SOUNDS more powerful then anything. Which side it chooses is key, but it no pharoh should be able to stop it id imagine.

My last statement merely says dont think its impossible path is bad. Remember the spawn game. The mutiny is soo similar to the ruling class, as it took the other captains to kill ardent. We actually used it and did it. Ardent turned up good, but the one time ive seen a role like the pharoh, ardents captain role, had similar roadblocks and we overcame them.

[Alan T]

Unvote Dubb
Vote Bullesponge


I said all along that I don't think that you can just come out and say the ruling class is good. I think if any of them are, we have to assume its likely to be path but I agree that is not gurantuee...

But there is no reason that I can think of right now to try to lynch the pharoah when he has not done anything that seemingly hurt us or against us so far to cause suspicion.

Being Suspicious just for the sake of suspicion is so 2005.

[saldana]

so, if there were a necromancer on the ruling council, it would make sense for him to try and whack Path, giving himself a 1 in 3 chance of assuming the throne...then if another necro tried to whack HIM, they would be relying on their 75% chance of recognizing one another.

just in case i die tonight at the lynch, when it becomes clear that you made a mistake (and it will become clear)...i want to put out there that i totally believe in Dubb's reveal, it was obvious to me when it happened what was going on, and Sun wasnt in enough real danger to make it a necessity to save him at the point it happened, so those two are clear.

as far as barkeep goes, i said this morning that i thought he was pretty high up in my list of trust but i had thought of something that dropped him down....i have now realized something else and can give you my list of trusted people.

1 Dubb
2 sndvls
3 barkeep
4 CW

the top 2 are slightly above the lower 2, but they are my top tier, fwiw.

[Barkeep49]

I believe someone suggested earlier that path is neither Egyptian or Necro. That he is instead "above the fray" and has his own victory condition. I believe this to be true. However, if he dies it's also likely there is a replacement who might, or might not, be good/evil.

[Schmidty]

Ok, I thought I was going to have time to read this stuff, but I'm doing work at home that I would normally be doing at work. My wife is at work, and I'm alone with my 4 year old daughter, so I'm not having a lot of internet time right now.

I have no idea to vote for, and I don't want to make an uninformed vote that will decide things, so I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

[Blade6119]

I have to start wondering if blade is trying to screw with us now, with all the other stuff said about him playing differently considered. I'm leaving my vote where it is, but I'm going to be thinking about this.
Ive said so far i was going to be gone...i said i would be around for 3 gours today to play, i act like myself and make accusations and piss people off...and im suspected. Tyrith buddy, what do you want me to do?

[Passacaglia]

But if we suspect path is bad, then all we have to do is find out which member of the ruling class isn't supporting his ouster, and we lynch them. I think that on the off chance that we decide path is bad, a necromancer on the Ruling Council would be happy to kill path off -- give himself a chance to become Pharaoh, and also solidify some trust.

Even if the member of the ruling class who wasn't supporting his ouster was right? Besides, that's a slow method, based on little. Also, we don't know if the ruling council even gets a chance to become Pharoah.

[Vince]

... Remember the spawn game ...

Believe me, I remember the spawn game. Schmidty's lucky I don't vote for him every single day of every werewolf game from now on because of that debacle :)

[Vince]

Even if the member of the ruling class who wasn't supporting his ouster was right? Besides, that's a slow method, based on little. Also, we don't know if the ruling council even gets a chance to become Pharoah.

That's sort of the point Tyrith was making that I was defending. If we want to lynch Path, it's going to take some doing. So while I'm not saying that he has to be a good guy, there are far better places to spend our efforts right now than on the Pharaoh.

[Passacaglia]

Okay, guys, heading out to celebrate, since I got a job offer today! Woot! Not sure if I'll be back before the lynch -- get a necromancer for me, preferrably the one who tried to kill me!

[Blade6119]

That's sort of the point Tyrith was making that I was defending. If we want to lynch Path, it's going to take some doing. So while I'm not saying that he has to be a good guy, there are far better places to spend our efforts right now than on the Pharaoh.
I agree with that point, but tyrith was saying path is good, and its impossible for him to be bad. That i dont agree with.

[Vince]

Yeah, I know. The point I was defending was that it would take a lot of doing to unseat path as Pharaoh, and that it would be an incredibly difficult thing for the good guys to overcome.

[Vince]

Okay, guys, heading out to celebrate, since I got a job offer today! Woot! Not sure if I'll be back before the lynch -- get a necromancer for me, preferrably the one who tried to kill me!

Congratulations!

[Blade6119]

Yeah, I know. The point I was defending was that it would take a lot of doing to unseat path as Pharaoh, and that it would be an incredibly difficult thing for the good guys to overcome.
We overcame it in Spawn, and by we i mean not you ;) .

I was right about you, just a few days early :)

[hoopsguy]

I think Vince remembers perfectly well who was the pain in his ass in the Spawn game

[Vince]

I think Vince remembers perfectly well who was the pain in his ass in the Spawn game

...

[Vince]

You really wouldn't let go of that "Vince could have been converted" logic. You were the only one for like two days...then it all came a-crumblin' down.

[Vince]

Man, I'm not real happy with the way things are looking right now. The arguments for bulletsponge are pretty flimsy (though the vote for path is sort of indefensible), but there really isn't anyone else who is standing out either. I have to go soon, too.

[Barkeep49]

Woudl this be a bad time to announce that if all goes according to plan the next WW game will be Spawn 2?

[bulletsponge]

ok after rereading the 3rd page i see where hoops clearly states that path is the pharoh, and most likely a good guy. he goes down on my suspicious list and that leave me 4 other peeps whom i suspect.

Unvote path

[Barkeep49]

Man, I'm not real happy with the way things are looking right now. The arguments for bulletsponge are pretty flimsy (though the vote for path is sort of indefensible), but there really isn't anyone else who is standing out either. I have to go soon, too.
I happen to agree with the bullets arguments being flimsy. Am thinking that putting some pressure on Bek might be a good idea.

[Alan T]

Man, I'm not real happy with the way things are looking right now. The arguments for bulletsponge are pretty flimsy (though the vote for path is sort of indefensible), but there really isn't anyone else who is standing out either. I have to go soon, too.


Well with the current vote count I see 4 options:

1) Saldana - For starting the cronin vote yesterday
2) Bek - For like being mr.ghost in this game
3) bullet - for his inconsistancies and path vote
4) Someone else - likely throw away vote.

[Vince]

Woudl this be a bad time to announce that if all goes according to plan the next WW game will be Spawn 2?

:mad:

Just kidding. That was actually my favorite game to date, inadequate henchmen or not :)

[Vince]

Hrm, well I don't like it, and it seems like it's not entirely his fault (didn't he say he's having computer problems?), but someone who hasn't been able to contribute well into day three needs to go. I'll probably be around for a little while longer, but then it's off to the airport.

Vote Bek.

[Schmidty]

Well with the current vote count I see 4 options:

1) Saldana - For starting the cronin vote yesterday
2) Bek - For like being mr.ghost in this game
3) bullet - for his inconsistancies and path vote
4) Someone else - likely throw away vote.

Of the 4 that you listed, I'll be a hypocrite and vote #2.

Vote Bek

[Abe Sargent]

Out until after lynch.


Anyone else see this and wonder why Tyrith is taking a such a late lunch?


Anxiety

[Barkeep49]

Anyone else see this and wonder why Tyrith is taking a such a late lunch?


Anxiety
I didn't do it with that one but definitely did it earlier in the day :)

[saldana]

and now i am in the unenviable position of being a pile on vote, a throwaway vote, or a no vote, either way...i dig my own hole a little deeper.

vote chubby

i agree with lathum that he seems to have moments of rookie inexperienced mixed in with flashes of brilliance, which either means he is either better than we expected (he has been on the board for a long time, and easily could have read every WW game in history), or has met up with a vet necro and is getting some help.

[saldana]

dola, anyone got a count?

[tanglewood]

If it seems that I am just sitting in the thread, reading everything and not saying much then that's because it's pretty much exactly what I am doing. I really have no clue at this point beyond a few gut feelings, but seeing as I don't have anything substantive to really back them up, just a vibe I am getting from one or two players, I can't really move on them this early.

I realise that I am one who rather frequently admits to not having a good picture of things, but in this particular game it is even more accurate a statement than usual.

[Poli]

/me waves...it's what 6pm or so there?

[Vince]

/me waves...it's what 6pm or so there?

An Ardent sighting! We miss you buddy!

It's about 4:45 here on the west coast.

And I'm officially out. Have a good one guys -- good luck.

[Blade6119]

Hrm, well I don't like it, and it seems like it's not entirely his fault (didn't he say he's having computer problems?), but someone who hasn't been able to contribute well into day three needs to go. I'll probably be around for a little while longer, but then it's off to the airport.

Vote Bek.
He has been sick...food poisoning if im not mistaken.

[Abe Sargent]

7:37 pm EST


-Anxiety

[Chubby]

dola, anyone got a count?


Barkeep 1 - Pass (1053)
Tanglewood 1 - Blade (1066)
Saldana 3 - King (1070), Coffee (1112)
Blade 1 - Dubb (1098)
Chubby 2 - Lathum (1101), Saldana (1208)
Bek 4 - Chubby (1106), Anxiety (1116), Vince (1203), Schmidty (1204)
Bulletsponge 4 - Path (1133), Tyrith (1141), SnDvls (1147), Alan T (1181)

"easily read every WW in history"?

Regardless of tonight's outcome I've noticed two things; 1. you seem to have a history of voting for an egyptian and 2. people aren't forgetting how you started the run on Cronin.

I trust two people right now tho not fully since I have no way to be sure: Barkeep and Coffee Warlord.

[Chubby]

eh that should say "2" next to Saldana but I think everything else is correct...

[Abe Sargent]

and now i am in the unenviable position of being a pile on vote, a throwaway vote, or a no vote, either way...i dig my own hole a little deeper.

vote chubby

i agree with lathum that he seems to have moments of rookie inexperienced mixed in with flashes of brilliance, which either means he is either better than we expected (he has been on the board for a long time, and easily could have read every WW game in history), or has met up with a vet necro and is getting some help.


I read five or six WWs as well as tons of rl playing experience. So I did the same. Flashes mixed with stupidity.

-Anxiety

[saldana]

Barkeep 1 - Pass (1053)
Tanglewood 1 - Blade (1066)
Saldana 2 - King (1070), Coffee (1112)
Blade 1 - Dubb (1098)
Chubby 2 - Lathum (1101), Saldana (1208)
Bek 4 - Chubby (1106), Anxiety (1116), Vince (1203), Schmidty (1204)
Bulletsponge 4 - Path (1133), Tyrith (1141), SnDvls (1147), Alan T (1181)

"easily read every WW in history"?

Regardless of tonight's outcome I've noticed two things; 1. you seem to have a history of voting for an egyptian and 2. people aren't forgetting how you started the run on Cronin.

I trust two people right now tho not fully since I have no way to be sure: Barkeep and Coffee Warlord.

a) thanks for the count
b) you're two points are absolutely correct, and i knew yesterday when i started the push that if i was wrong there would be heat for it....that logic of itself should be evidence that i'm an egyptian myself....not saying it should clear me, but it would be pretty dumb for a necro to draw that much attention to himself on day 2....all i can say to these points is the same thing i have said all day....it would be a mistake to lynch me if you are an Egyptian.

[Chubby]

a) thanks for the count
b) you're two points are absolutely correct, and i knew yesterday when i started the push that if i was wrong there would be heat for it....that logic of itself should be evidence that i'm an egyptian myself....not saying it should clear me, but it would be pretty dumb for a necro to draw that much attention to himself on day 2....all i can say to these points is the same thing i have said all day....it would be a mistake to lynch me if you are an Egyptian.

No problem on the count, I was waiting for someone to do one so we'd know the status anyways.

I don't really buy your "I pushed to have an Egyptian lynched therefore I must be an egyptian" logic tho. I'm not trying to lynch you... right now... maybe I have too high of a threshold for evidence I don't know. I'm fine with my bek vote and the only person I would consider switching it to is bullet for obvious reasons.

I will be taking a harder look at you tomorrow as I won't be forgetting day 2. Having the explorer around could have been a good asset down the road (tho I don't know if that is a sure thing as someone else mentioned).

[path12]

Granted, bullet, who now has 3 votes on him, had the best chance to die anyway, since path's tie-breaking vote was on him.

By the way, my tiebreak doesn't have to be my vote.

[path12]

WHy is he invincible at night? My fear is not that path is evil but that whoever would become pharoah after path was killed would be evil.

I don't have any reason to believe that I am invincible at night. I would like to think my benevolent rule would keep the bodyguards close.

[tanglewood]

Just to throw something out there, seeing as most of the players here seem to think path is not a bad guy (at least not at the moment) would it be useful to deliberatley set up a tie and have path choose between two guys?

[SnDvls]

unvote bullet
vote bek

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see path was the pharaoh for today.

chubby you're getting on my untrusted side with only 2 people in your "slight" trusted list...makes me wonder who's side you're on.

[path12]

Why are we shooting blanks. Im under the impression so far path hasnt issued a single order. Its not he has to, its a choice. So far, ive assumed the EG has decided everything on his own. Where did path say he has ordered the EG around?

I ordered the EG on the first night. Last night I didn't. I will not say where I ordered him.

Blade, exactly what have I failed to get across to you thus far in the game to warrant your line of reasoning? I do not believe I'm immortal. I have no information of any alternate victory conditions for myself.

I think there are more productive roads to explore.

[Alan T]

Just to throw something out there, seeing as most of the players here seem to think path is not a bad guy (at least not at the moment) would it be useful to deliberatley set up a tie and have path choose between two guys?

No, that would be bad I think. I believe he loses his ability to tiebreak if he chooses a good guy. (or maybe thats his duke role.. or maybe thats the same thing).

Plus we know he has this ability as the pharoah it was said. What we are debating is the possibility that he is bad or not. not what his abilities are.

[Qwikshot]

Vote Bulletsponge

I doubt path is evil; he got the artifacts so we can assume he is the pharoah.

Eager rook or not, it's just a bad play.

I apologize for my lack of involvement, with the migraine yesterday and crap at work today, it's been less than pleasing (try sleeping from 4:30 pm to 4:30 am and still feel crappy)...and I hate my job...anyone connected to the pharmaceutical industry?

On the game, still no real outcomes, it was fortuitous that Pass didn't get killed, and in the end getting a ceremonial dagger, I'm betting that hampers further attacks from that assassin.

Since it wasn't successful we know that the baddies are still not a cohesive unit so that's good.

I'm not all for those who are silent as bad anymore than those who a vocal as bad, but I recall many a prior game in which those who were vocal (squeaky wheel gets the grease) could manuveur the outcomes. That being said, those who are quiet lead themselves to suspicion because no one can get a read on them. I'm entitled to give tangle some latitude due to the time zone and the same goes for Blade and Bek (food poisoning sucks man) but at some point, all is fair in ww (except passing PMs and showing PMs by the starter of the game and talking while dead (guilty)).

[SnDvls]

I ordered the EG on the first night. Last night I didn't. I will not say where I ordered him.

Blade, exactly what have I failed to get across to you thus far in the game to warrant your line of reasoning? I do not believe I'm immortal. I have no information of any alternate victory conditions for myself.

I think there are more productive roads to explore.

I think it's blade just trying to offer up a different view and get people talking per his usual actions in WW games.

[Chubby]

Just to throw something out there, seeing as most of the players here seem to think path is not a bad guy (at least not at the moment) would it be useful to deliberatley set up a tie and have path choose between two guys?

For what purpose? I don't see any benefit, only potential harm to the Egyptian side.

SnDvls - I have no way of knowing for sure who is good and who is bad besides myself. I can make logical assumptions but I think it's been clear that I don't fully trust you or dubb, while i may trust dubb more there still isn't enough shown for me to trust him more. I fully stand behind the 2 I do trust. I'm not willing to say I trust someone, or thrown someone under a bus until I've seen enough from them. Coming from the person who wouldn't vouch for the person that saved him yesterday, I'd think you would understand that.

[Blade6119]

I ordered the EG on the first night. Last night I didn't. I will not say where I ordered him.

Blade, exactly what have I failed to get across to you thus far in the game to warrant your line of reasoning? I do not believe I'm immortal. I have no information of any alternate victory conditions for myself.

I think there are more productive roads to explore.
Im not voting you, so i agree with the other routes. But Tyrith stated you cant be bad, which is not true to me. I think you have as much chance as anyone. I just dont like it when people are trusted on a basis i dont agree with, so i defend my side. It doesnt mean your my top suspect, it just means i dont agree with what tyrith was saying.

[Abe Sargent]

tangle - doesn't he lose tie breaking if he hits an Egyptian? That's no somethign we want to force.

-Anxiety

[Blade6119]

I think it's blade just trying to offer up a different view and get people talking per his usual actions in WW games.
He said it better then i did, just trying to keep people from becoming content

[Abe Sargent]

Fouts, ya gotta come join us. Next game?

-Anxiety

[path12]

Im not voting you, so i agree with the other routes. But Tyrith stated you cant be bad, which is not true to me. I think you have as much chance as anyone. I just dont like it when people are trusted on a basis i dont agree with, so i defend my side. It doesnt mean your my top suspect, it just means i dont agree with what tyrith was saying.

I figured that but just wanted to make sure.

[SnDvls]

chubby - care to explain why the 2 you have in your "trusted" list are there?

[path12]

Dola, the bullet vote is just gut feel. Nobody should think that I have any special insight on him. I'm not a fan of voting Bek again because of his being sick, and I don't believe Saldana is bad for once.

[Blade6119]

good luck with the lynch everyone! i hope bek is a bad guy

[Fouts]

Fouts, ya gotta come join us. Next game?

-Anxiety

Thinking about it. These games seem to be getting more interesting now.

[tanglewood]

tangle - doesn't he lose tie breaking if he hits an Egyptian? That's no somethign we want to force.

-Anxiety

That's true didn't consider that. I just thought it might have been a way of getting someone we all relatively trusted to make the call, rather than endlessly speculate about necros moving the votes around etc. that inevitibley happens in WW games. Of course they could have just manuvered to get two guys they wanted gone up, but anyway it's not worth it.

[bulletsponge]

Vote Saldana

this guy better not be the pharoahs nephew or ill be pissed

[Alan T]

That's true didn't consider that. I just thought it might have been a way of getting someone we all relatively trusted to make the call, rather than endlessly speculate about necros moving the votes around etc. that inevitibley happens in WW games. Of course they could have just manuvered to get two guys they wanted gone up, but anyway it's not worth it.


Just because he is more trusted for me than most people does not mean that I feel he has any more knowledge to who is bad than any of the rest of us. I have not seen any hints from him saying that to be the case. A power like that is better used with knowledge behind it than random stabs in the dark like it would be right now.

[Vince]

Stupid flights being late.

I believe he doesn't lose tiebreaking ability unless he uses his Duke role and gets an Egyptian. Don't quote me on that though, that's just what I remember from the discussion earlier on the topic.

[Abe Sargent]

Stupid flights being late.

I believe he doesn't lose tiebreaking ability unless he uses his Duke role and gets an Egyptian. Don't quote me on that though, that's just what I remember from the discussion earlier on the topic.


Right, and he would have to use that role if we forced a tie.

-Anxiety

[Vince]

Ok, looking things over...I don't think a tiebreaker vote is the same as using his Duke power. I also don't think that the Pharaoh can lose his tiebreaker vote unless he is dead. The rules say that the tiebreaker starts with the pharaoh initially, but there is no mention of him losing his tiebreaker vote.

[Vince]

And now I'm really out of here. Later all.

[Chubby]

chubby - care to explain why the 2 you have in your "trusted" list are there?

To me, they've been the most consistent and made the most sense.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah to making sense! Yeah to conistency! Yeah to Chubby for being a smart player :)!

[bulletsponge]

is it me or is my neck feeling tight :(

[dubb93]

OK, I'm back let me catch up a little.

[Barkeep49]

So I keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting for Bek to come around. But as that is looking increasingly less likely

Vote Bek

[Chubby]

SnDvls - Now to you, feel free to let us know who you trust and why.

[Barkeep49]

One good thing just popped into mind: Normally at this time in a game we would be down 4 humans. We're only down 2. This is, a good thing, I feel.