Werewolf L Kate Beckinsale - day 7, deadline Thursday 10pm Eastern Time

[tanglewood]

What? When have I argued that we need a day one lynch?

Well, okay seeing as it is all hypothetical now anway, what do you think makes a lynch on day 2 different from a lynch on day 1 under this ruleset.

[Alan T]

When there is no kill at the deadline, one villager is killed by the wolves and our seer has his one view which he can't tell anyone about, everyone will stand around and say "well now what?". We will be back to square 1 with one less villager to contribute to the discussion.

It is pretty simple really. Lynch people and you find out what they were. This allows you to objectively evaluate what they said and then you evaluate who supported them and who attacked them. This helps the village.

Well as people mentioned earlier, we have 3 seers this game.

[Alan T]

la la la la


Vote Chief Rum

[Chief Rum]

What? When have I argued that we need a day one lynch?

I'm sorry, thought you did. Lots of posts today.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Well, okay seeing as it is all hypothetical now anway, what do you think makes a lynch on day 2 different from a lynch on day 1 under this ruleset.

As I have said multiple times, at least on day two there is some information gained from night actions. It's not a lot and not everyone has access to it, but it's better than what we have on a day one vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting deadlien vote by alan there. That ought to raise some eyebrows...

[Chief Rum]

But since we don't, I think we'd be foolish to lynch him.

Not as foolish as not lynching anyone, IMO.

[path12]

interesting deadlien vote by alan there. That ought to raise some eyebrows...

I don't think so at all. I've got no problem with it.

[st.cronin]

DEADLINE

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8322/306917katebeckinsalesexus4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Jonathan Ezarik]

DEADLINE

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8322/306917katebeckinsalesexus4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Even if I die early, this is the best game ever! :D

[Chief Rum]

la la la la


Vote Chief Rum

lol, you certainly don't shy away from making a potentially controversial deadline vote, huh? :)

Seriously, though, as you surmised, I think we were one short of lynch anyway, with a tie going to the no lynch. So your vote wouldn't matter.

[path12]

Not as foolish as not lynching anyone, IMO.

In a general sense I don't disagree. But in this particular case I don't.

[st.cronin]

Official final count:

7 - NO LYNCH - path12 (111), Telle (115), Jonathan Ezarik (133), Barkeep49 (166), Antmeister (194), DaddyTorgo (198), Gonzo (200)
6 - Jonathan Ezarik - Dodgerchick (63), Lathum (79), cartman (96), Chief Rum, (222), RendeR (223), tanglewood (227)
2 - tanglewood - LoneStarGirl (146), KWhit (171)
1 - path12 - Schmidty (128)
1 - Antmeister - JHandley (184)
1 - Alan T (253)

Not voted - Neon Chaos

The result of today's discussion is NO LYNCH.

[RendeR]

DEADLINE

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8322/306917katebeckinsalesexus4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Sorry, this one does absolutely nothing for me. It's farr too moulin Rouge-esque.

[path12]

That was really poor grammar above. I'm ashamed. You know what I meant. :)

[Chief Rum]

interesting deadlien vote by alan there. That ought to raise some eyebrows...

It doesn't really to me. Only thing I would wonder is if he is trying to hide in the open by voting for someone who was actively engaged in conversation with the lynchee before he might have potentially bought it. As in, "Oh, hey, it's obvious, vote for Chief Rum, he has to be a vote for taking this stance" sorta thing, but actually hiding himself.

It's extremely unlikely, but I'll throw it there for Alan's thoughts.

[tanglewood]

Well as people mentioned earlier, we have 3 seers this game.
We have a bodyguard who if he protects a wolf sees him, but gets seen also. So he essentially guards, but has a built in one-for-one swap.

We have a guy who can only tell if someone is th emad scientist, not if they are wolf or human.

We have a guy who can tell wolf from human, very useful.

So as I see it we don't have one complete seer, but two pretty decent seers who just can't spot the mad scientist, one of whom has a limited lifespan function, and another who is searching for a needle in a haystack. None of them are traditional perfect seers, yes better than usual but I would hesitate to say "3 seers" as if we are loaded.

Of course there are hidden roles as well, so who knows what is out there.

[Alan T]

lol, you certainly don't shy away from making a potentially controversial deadline vote, huh? :)

Seriously, though, as you surmised, I think we were one short of lynch anyway, with a tie going to the no lynch. So your vote wouldn't matter.

My vote anywhere wouldn't have changed anything. So it was a statement vote.

Basically looked at people who voted where they did, and I think as normal the wolves wouldn't be consolidated in one spot. So out of the people who voted JE, i tried to figure which was the most "wolfish" to me. So I picked you.

Was just a day 1 vote, and doubt I'll pursue it tommorrow. Just needed to go somewhere with it, and it was either going to be you or Neon for not showing up.

[Chief Rum]

In a general sense I don't disagree. But in this particular case I don't.

Because JE is a valuable player? That's a tough line to draw. Where do you place it? Then we're judging players on their merits from other games, which opens a Pandora's Box (nevermind the meta issues).

In the end, the most valuable players are usually the ones with roles, especially in games that seem close to standard. And the GM determines who gets those.

[Chief Rum]

My vote anywhere wouldn't have changed anything. So it was a statement vote.

Basically looked at people who voted where they did, and I think as normal the wolves wouldn't be consolidated in one spot. So out of the people who voted JE, i tried to figure which was the most "wolfish" to me. So I picked you.

Was just a day 1 vote, and doubt I'll pursue it tommorrow. Just needed to go somewhere with it, and it was either going to be you or Neon for not showing up.

Yeah, I got no problem with it. Actually, I think I often come off wolfish to you. At least that's my impression. And you usually come off like a good guy to me. I guess that makes you especially dangerous to me, regardless of what are roles are. Are you my nemesis? :)

[Alan T]

Yeah, I got no problem with it. Actually, I think I often come off wolfish to you. At least that's my impression. And you usually come off like a good guy to me. I guess that makes you especially dangerous to me, regardless of what are roles are. Are you my nemesis? :)

Everyone tells me that I always think they are wolfish. I'm pretty sure that I don't vote for everyone every game!

Maybe its my personality.

[path12]

Because JE is a valuable player? That's a tough line to draw. Where do you place it? Then we're judging players on their merits from other games, which opens a Pandora's Box (nevermind the meta issues).

In the end, the most valuable players are usually the ones with roles, especially in games that seem close to standard. And the GM determines who gets those.

I hear exactly what you're saying, and I don't know if I'm entirely comfortable with the idea myself. But fact is I also would never vote you, hoops, Barkeep, Alan and some others day 1 either. I'm also usually one who argues for a lynch every day. My gut says different in this game.

I hate day 1. Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate.

[st.cronin]

Jonathan Ezarik has been murdered overnight! Welcome to day 2.

Results coming.

[path12]

Everyone tells me that I always think they are wolfish. I'm pretty sure that I don't vote for everyone every game!

Maybe its my personality.

You go through so many possibilities that eventually you get to everyone! :D

[path12]

Jonathan Ezarik has been murdered overnight! Welcome to day 2.

Results coming.

Now that's interesting.

[RendeR]

Everyone tells me that I always think they are wolfish. I'm pretty sure that I don't vote for everyone every game!

Maybe its my personality.

Wait...you have a personality?






;)

[st.cronin]

All results have been sent. If you were expecting one and didn't get one, pm me.

Day 2 has begun - deadline Saturday 10pm eastern time

[RendeR]

I hate being human, I never get any PMs =(

[path12]

I figure either a dukish role where the person's vote trumps all, or someone was afraid we were protecting him by not lynching.

[st.cronin]

We begin day 2 officially .... HERE:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5543/katebeckinsale2kire4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Chief Rum]

Jonathan Ezarik has been murdered overnight! Welcome to day 2.

Results coming.

lol...hmm...

Thoughts anyone? Rough day for JE. And that means we were barking up the wrong tree (big surprise :rolleyes: ).

[path12]

I hate being human, I never get any PMs =(

Sounds wolfish to me.

VOTE RENDER

Welcome to Hollywood!

[tanglewood]

I don't know if it means much more than the wolves have a sense of humour. Which is small consolation if you get eaten I suppose.

I'm out for now, will be back later tomorrow.

[Alan T]

Ok, so uhh.. who did something to me last night?

I honestly don't know if it was a good guy or bad guy but.. I wouldn't mind knowing what you did..

I'll tell everyone what happened a bit later, just want some time to let someone come forward first.

[Chief Rum]

I figure either a dukish role where the person's vote trumps all, or someone was afraid we were protecting him by not lynching.

Wouldn't a duke role be revealed, though, if it was used? Plus, if it was a duke (and figuring he is good), where be the wolf kill? And why would a duke role be needed when the option is no lynch? Naw, too many things outta whack for that to work.

The second theory has more traction, but it seems like a reach for the wolves to think we know something on Day One, with no actions taken yet.

[RendeR]

Seriously though. Being a joe schmoe human is really boring in this game. its also frustrating, ebcause you have no data to defend yourself with and no matter what you say some other schmoe is going to say

Sounds wolfish to me.

VOTE RENDER

Welcome to Hollywood!


Its very frustrating.

[Lathum]

boy we are so much further along now.

What should we do with all this new information?

[Chief Rum]

We begin day 2 officially .... HERE:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5543/katebeckinsale2kire4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Love this picture.

[Chief Rum]

Ok, so uhh.. who did something to me last night?

I honestly don't know if it was a good guy or bad guy but.. I wouldn't mind knowing what you did..

I'll tell everyone what happened a bit later, just want some time to let someone come forward first.

Alan, I'm not sure if you should have said anything yet. If it was someone bad, they're probably not going to trip themselves up now.

I am of course curious to hear what happened, though. We have a vast waste of ignorance amongst us right now, and any little bit would help get rid of it.

[RendeR]

Love this picture.

Agreed, there is NOTHIng more enticing than a seriously HOT woman with a sword.

[Alan T]

Alan, I'm not sure if you should have said anything yet. If it was someone bad, they're probably not going to trip themselves up now.

I am of course curious to hear what happened, though. We have a vast waste of ignorance amongst us right now, and any little bit would help get rid of it.

Well, its up to them or not. I haven't said what I know yet.. but I'm pretty sure failure to be up front about it will be considered by me to be not in my best interests.

[Alan T]

Also.. out of curiosity.. does anyone by chance have the ability to remove harmful effects?

[Schmidty]

So, do we go after a no-voter now?

[Gonzo]

However if we proceed and lynch today, then have a kill at night automatically we know the alignments of two players in the game. Thus we can go back and see who they voted for, what they posted on day 1 with complete information about their role. This is very valuable.

Yes, because a random vote on Day One tells us so much about who's a wolf.

[JHandley]

I figure either a dukish role where the person's vote trumps all, or someone was afraid we were protecting him by not lynching.

I think JE fell on the sword. The wolves almost certainly thought he had a big role.

[Gonzo]

Sounds wolfish to me.

VOTE RENDER

Welcome to Hollywood!

Seems a bit odd you jumping on Render.

Why would a wolf say "Oh, I didn't get a PM tonight"?

[Lathum]

Yes, because a random vote on Day One tells us so much about who's a wolf.

not everyone's day one vote is random.

How much further along are we now then we were yesterday.?

[Chief Rum]

I think JE fell on the sword. The wolves almost certainly thought he had a big role.

I just don't buy this. No one knows anything right now, and the wolves know this. It's possible JE said something that scared them, or that his direction of thinking was threatening to them, I suppose. Maybe we should go over his posts?

Of course, we could just be overthinking (not the first time), and the wolves just used random.org like the wolves in the last game.

[Chief Rum]

Seems a bit odd you jumping on Render.

Why would a wolf say "Oh, I didn't get a PM tonight"?

Actually, I think path was being sarcastic. I doubt he sticks with that vote when more serious discussion starts.

[st.cronin]

Couple quick game notes:

If you have a "night action" you can change your order at any point before deadline. I will try and be lenient and accept orders that are a couple of minutes late, as long as I haven't actually posted or sent out anything that would need to be changed.

[Chief Rum]

Well, its up to them or not. I haven't said what I know yet.. but I'm pretty sure failure to be up front about it will be considered by me to be not in my best interests.

Oh, didn't want to leave you hanging. I suppose you have a point. It's likely hiding it would have been viewed as suspicious.

[Schmidty]

Seems a bit odd you jumping on Render.

Why would a wolf say "Oh, I didn't get a PM tonight"?

I agree. Plus, he was the one who started the whole no-vote thing yesterday. That might mean nothing either, but what else is there to go on at this point (pending anything AlanT can tell us)?

[Lathum]

Alan, you have a pretty good audience right now.

[Alan T]

Well I can say what happened to me, but I would love to know the reasons why. I'll give it a bit, but if the person hasn't come forward before tommorrow when I go out for the day, I'll spill the beans and assume the act is not in our best interests.

[Lathum]

well it seems like nothing is going to happen until AlanT spills the beans.

[JHandley]

Ok, so uhh.. who did something to me last night?

I honestly don't know if it was a good guy or bad guy but.. I wouldn't mind knowing what you did..

I'll tell everyone what happened a bit later, just want some time to let someone come forward first.

Also.. out of curiosity.. does anyone by chance have the ability to remove harmful effects?


How could what happened to you possibly be good?

I don't understand this. We're stuck in the mud until you come forward because there's no way the person who did the "voodoo that they do so well" is going to come forward until the last possible moment. Unless you think there's a strong chance the person who did something to you is good, there's no reason to hide it. If it's a toss up, then I think our best bet is to get the information out there.

[Neon_Chaos]

So, do we go after a no-voter now?

No we don't. :)

Sorry about the lack of activity and the no-vote, but I was too damn drunk last night and woke up just now. :D

I would have voted for no lynch, though.

[Alan T]

How could what happened to you possibly be good?

I don't understand this. We're stuck in the mud until you come forward because there's no way the person who did the "voodoo that they do so well" is going to come forward until the last possible moment. Unless you think there's a strong chance the person who did something to you is good, there's no reason to hide it. If it's a toss up, then I think our best bet is to get the information out there.

There are often good roles in games that can do things at night, trust me you'll understand tommorrow why I'm not sure if it was good or bad. I'll just think more of the person if they are up front about it.

[Lathum]

There are often good roles in games that can do things at night, trust me you'll understand tommorrow why I'm not sure if it was good or bad. I'll just think more of the person if they are up front about it.

do you know who it was?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Jonathan Ezarik has been murdered overnight! Welcome to day 2.

Results coming.

Dammit! :mad:

[Gonzo]

There are often good roles in games that can do things at night, trust me you'll understand tommorrow why I'm not sure if it was good or bad. I'll just think more of the person if they are up front about it.

...wha?

[path12]

Seems a bit odd you jumping on Render.

Why would a wolf say "Oh, I didn't get a PM tonight"?

I find it wolfish when someone keeps reiterating about themselves being a human. He didn't say "oh, I didn't get a PM", he said "It's so boring being just a plain old human with no messages" (paraphrase, I know).

That is why I voted him.

[st.cronin]

I just want to point out that Gonzo has zero posts.

[path12]

I agree. Plus, he was the one who started the whole no-vote thing yesterday. That might mean nothing either, but what else is there to go on at this point (pending anything AlanT can tell us)?

That may be the longest WW message I've ever seen from you.

[Telle]

There are often good roles in games that can do things at night, trust me you'll understand tommorrow why I'm not sure if it was good or bad. I'll just think more of the person if they are up front about it.

But if there was a good person who could do something at night, is it really a good idea for them to come out with that info? Wouldn't that make them a target for the wolves? And wouldn't you assume that if a villager had some sort of night ability that them having that ability is a plus for the village and thus we wouldn't want to lose them to the wolves?

[Alan T]

But if there was a good person who could do something at night, is it really a good idea for them to come out with that info? Wouldn't that make them a target for the wolves? And wouldn't you assume that if a villager had some sort of night ability that them having that ability is a plus for the village and thus we wouldn't want to lose them to the wolves?


Depends if it was a one time ability or not.

[Telle]

So if nobody comes forward, then that person was either a wolf or someone with an ability that is not limited to a single time.

[Neon_Chaos]

www.random.org compels me to vote.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[KWhit]

I hope I'm wrong, but what Alan is talking about makes me think of this:

Mad Scientist - You have found Dr. Frankenstein's old notes, and have begun work on an army of lycanthropes. If lynched, you will turn up as human, but for game purposes you count as a wolf.


I hope Alan hasn't been started on the way to conversion.

[Barkeep49]

www.random.org compels me to vote.

VOTE DADDYTORGO


I think after a full day's discussion you can do far better than a random.org vote.

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[Lathum]

I think after a full day's discussion you can do far better than a random.org vote.

VOTE NEON CHAOS

hmmm, makes you wonder if we should have lynched day one..

[Alan T]

I hope I'm wrong, but what Alan is talking about makes me think of this:

Mad Scientist - You have found Dr. Frankenstein's old notes, and have begun work on an army of lycanthropes. If lynched, you will turn up as human, but for game purposes you count as a wolf.


I hope Alan hasn't been started on the way to conversion.

I don't think that is the case for two reasons. 1) usually conversions aren't allowed until turn 3 or so... 2) There wasn't anything indicating anything like that.

I think I actually played it wrong how I revealed what happened.. my first post on it was done poorly by me, and then I suddenly tried to change how I was wording things, but after the first pm I think I was too late.

I actually think whoever did the action on me is good, and was trying to figure out if someone would drop me some code to let me know they did it so I could add them to my personal CoT of just me. After my first post though, I think I screwed it up by being overeager before I thought about it fully.

Cronin stated earlier that we can quote PMs sent to us from him in this game, I sent him a PM asking for clarification if that was just the initial PM or any PM. If it is any PM, I'll share what I received so others can add their interpretation. If we can only share the initial PM, then I'll just explain what happened in it.

Either way, I think the person whoever it was wasted their night action on me, but at least it should help them feel a small bit better about me.

[Alan T]

Ok Cronin replied before I even posted my last message completely. (Darn Speedy GMs!)

Anyhows, here it is:

You black out shortly after dinner. You awake in your bed in the morning, with no memory of what happened during the previous evening.

So.. initially I was afraid that someone did something to hurt me.. after I actually stopped babbling in posts here and thought about it a little longer, I think it was someone on our side who has some kind of action blocker ability. What I mean by this, is in some games people will have an ability to use on someone to prevent that person from doing any night time activities.

This PM made me feel that is what happened to me last night, which unfortunatly for the person who used it on me, it didn't block me from doing anything :)

So I guess the net result from it is that whoever used it on me, knows that even though it doesn't mean I am or am not a wolf, that at least I wasn't the one responsible for killing JE last night. What I was hoping for when I changed the tone of my posts last night was some way for them to drop me a hint so I knew who was on my side, but unfortunatly like I said I think I blew it.

So anyhows, thats what happened to me last night, I was going to also say people can feel free to scan me tonight to verify that I am good, but Kwhit does bring up a good point about a conversion attempt. Even though I think its very unlikely that is the case (especially since I wasn't told anything about conversion in the PM you can see above), seer folks may want to wait an extra day (or even 2?) to scan me if you want to make sure.

Anyways, thats the truth, and it doesn't help us alot more than understand a bit better one of the additional roles that appear to be in the game.

[JHandley]

We are no where.

[Lathum]

It seems more likely to me that Alan had an item or a potion used on him.

[Lorena]

vote lathum

as good a strategy as any. I won't be around at all... stuff came up

[Lathum]

meh...

[Barkeep49]

Actually Alan, I think that only seems to make it more likely that KWhit is right and you have begun the transformation process. I don't think that sounds like a blocker at all. What would they be blocking you from? If I were the bad guys I would sure like to have you on our side. I agree a conversion before night 3 is unlikely but the way the role is worded makes me think it could take time so you aren't a bad guy yet, but could be one by Day 3 or 4. So I'm going to swallow up my dislike of Neon thinking there was nothing useful from Day 1, I mean I think there are many useful posts there, and go with the caution, in the same way that Swaggs and AE were lynched last game.

UNVOTE NEON
VOTE ALAN T

[Lathum]

I think there is some validity to the concept of a slow transformation.

My only other thought is could their be a role that can put one person to sleep each night so they can't perform their night action? Would we be better served to wait on lynching Alan to see if anyone has a similar expierience tonight?

[Alan T]

Pretty wolfish move from Barkeep there. Now I'm wondering if it was a setup to try to get a good villager (me) lynched instead of focusing on people who are bad.

Like I said, feel free to scan me tonight, tommorrow night, the next night, every night. I don't care. If I do change, then great I gave you a future wolf. But if I don't change at least you don't lynch someone who isn't a wolf.

I think Barkeep might have been behind this even and is trying to get people to steer away from looking for people who are actually you know.. evil.

[Alan T]

I think there is some validity to the concept of a slow transformation.

My only other thought is could their be a role that can put one person to sleep each night so they can't perform their night action? Would we be better served to wait on lynching Alan to see if anyone has a similar expierience tonight?

I think we may be better served by letting the seers decide how/when they want to scan me based on the information I have given. Barkeep's move to try to lynch someone who IS Good, and who may or may not become evil on some future date is pure non-sense.

Especially when there is no proof to that, and my story has just as much or more validity than his pet theory.

[JHandley]

It could be that I'm being led astray by the glorious Kate pictures and trying to find ways to tie things in from the movie that aren't in the game.

I'm not convinced that the Mad Scientist role isn't much like Replicators/Sebasian/Tyrell plot of the last game. Meaning, the MS needs to find people in order to complete the research. I can see a scenerio where the MS needs to find Igor and/or Frankenstein's Monster and then can start to convert players.

Also, I'm not sure I like Alan as a convert. It just seems too easy that he'd have several days to tell us he's becoming a convert.

[Lathum]

DOLA -- And in your game the opposite was true as roles which would reveal information were more likely to occur later in the game than earlier. I think the risk/reward of lynching today versus letting our roles do their work is just too high to justify a day 1 lynch. I view this game as an aberration in my overall stance and in fact only came around as I begun to crunch the numbers to try and support my lynch contention.

I think it's odd that you campaign to let out roles do their work then come out firing early with a vote for Neon Chaos that is based on what's best, a flimsy reason.

I know you hate random.org votes ( as do I) but it seems to me you are contradicting yourself a bit.

[Barkeep49]

I think it's odd that you campaign to let out roles do their work then come out firing early with a vote for Neon Chaos that is based on what's best, a flimsy reason.

I know you hate random.org votes ( as do I) but it seems to me you are contradicting yourself a bit.
I never advocated roles coming out early. I instead just wanted the information out there for those who had it to do their work.

[Barkeep49]

Pretty wolfish move from Barkeep there. Now I'm wondering if it was a setup to try to get a good villager (me) lynched instead of focusing on people who are bad.

Like I said, feel free to scan me tonight, tommorrow night, the next night, every night. I don't care. If I do change, then great I gave you a future wolf. But if I don't change at least you don't lynch someone who isn't a wolf.

I think Barkeep might have been behind this even and is trying to get people to steer away from looking for people who are actually you know.. evil.
Pretty wolfish that I follow through on a suggestion of another player? Isn't it more wolfish of KWhit to throw it out there and not follow through on it?

[Lathum]

I never advocated roles coming out early. I instead just wanted the information out there for those who had it to do their work.

I never said you want anyone to come out early, I am mearly saying your advocating no lynch on day one so therr can be a more, educated, guess then you make an early vote with a flimsy reason.

It just seemed odd to me.

[Barkeep49]

It could be that I'm being led astray by the glorious Kate pictures and trying to find ways to tie things in from the movie that aren't in the game.

I'm not convinced that the Mad Scientist role isn't much like Replicators/Sebasian/Tyrell plot of the last game. Meaning, the MS needs to find people in order to complete the research. I can see a scenerio where the MS needs to find Igor and/or Frankenstein's Monster and then can start to convert players.

Also, I'm not sure I like Alan as a convert. It just seems too easy that he'd have several days to tell us he's becoming a convert.
But he doesn't know that he's becoming a convert (or not) at this point.

I have no role beyond that of villager and until I receive evidence otherwise am limiting my analysis, with some speculation, to the roles listed. The only scenario I see with-in the known rules is Alan becoming converted (other option would have been Van Helsing successfully blocking a night kill against him).

There very well could be other roles out there, but I would rather not be led astray by foolish false reveals.

[Barkeep49]

I never said you want anyone to come out early, I am mearly saying your advocating no lynch on day one so therr can be a more, educated, guess then you make an early vote with a flimsy reason.

It just seemed odd to me.
Flimsy reason? What are you talking about. I don't think it's flimsy at all. Possibly wrong, but not "flimsy". Flimsy is random.org. Flimsy is "he voted for me I'll vote for him". Alan comes out with a PM suggesting something was done to him without his knowledge. You could argue that this is something good. I think it's far more likely to be sinister.

[KWhit]

Isn't it more wolfish of KWhit to throw it out there and not follow through on it?

No.

[Lathum]

Flimsy reason? What are you talking about. I don't think it's flimsy at all. Possibly wrong, but not "flimsy". Flimsy is random.org. Flimsy is "he voted for me I'll vote for him". Alan comes out with a PM suggesting something was done to him without his knowledge. You could argue that this is something good. I think it's far more likely to be sinister.

I was speaking for your initial vote of Neon Chaos

[KWhit]

I don't know if I'm ready to vote for Alan yet or not. I think based upon the roles we know about that the most likely explanation is a slow conversion, but there could be other possibilities to explain that PM.

We need to keep an eye on him, that's for sure.

[KWhit]

Alan comes out with a PM suggesting something was done to him without his knowledge. You could argue that this is something good. I think it's far more likely to be sinister.

Just wanted to jump on this point and say I agree. It could be good, could be bad. But more than likely it's something bad.

[Lathum]

Just wanted to jump on this point and say I agree. It could be good, could be bad. But more than likely it's something bad.

I still don't see the harm in waiting a day to see if anyone else has a similar expierience.

[KWhit]

I'm going to be in and out today, but just in case I can't get another vote out there:

VOTE NEON CHAOS

Since he didn't vote yesterday.

[KWhit]

I still don't see the harm in waiting a day to see if anyone else has a similar expierience.

I agree with that.

[Barkeep49]

I still don't see the harm in waiting a day to see if anyone else has a similar expierience.
So then how will you be making your decision for today?

[Lathum]

So then how will you be making your decision for today?

right now I am leaning towards you.

You made what I consider an odd vote on Neon Chaos, then jumped to Alan, then claimed Kwhits actions were wolflike, seems like you are creating some confusion.

[RendeR]

Since he didn't vote yesterday.


This is a good call for anotehr day with no knowledge whatsoever. Only thing worse than a wolf is a useless villager.


VOTE NEON_CHAOS

[Lathum]

sigh....

we may as well have lynched Antmeister yesterday using the logic being employed today against Neon Chaos.

VOTE BARKEEP

[RendeR]

I'll be out most of the day, Aemon's first birthday party and we're having a big shindig out back.

I should be able to pop in before deadline to adjust my vote if necessary.

[JHandley]

I still don't see the harm in waiting a day to see if anyone else has a similar expierience.

Or waiting to see if he has additional transformation tonight. I'm on board with this idea.

I'm going to be in and out today, but just in case I can't get another vote out there:

VOTE NEON CHAOS

Since he didn't vote yesterday.

If nothing else comes up from now until 5 PST, this is going to be my vote as well. I can't recall who said it, but earlier someone mentioned the idea that the best vote is for a wolf, and the second best is for a villager who offers us nothing.

[Alan T]

Reasons to not vote for me:

1) It might not be and probably isn't a "slow conversion" where I am hinted off several days ahead of time?
2) It most likely was some other unmentioned role just like we have seen many many times before that inhibit's another player's activity for the night.
3) Even if the slim possibility that it is some kind of slow conversion attempt, in games with slow conversions, there is usually some kind of doctor role to "cure" the attempt before it occurs. Thus if that is indeed the case here, whoever has that type of role has the ability to try to "cure" me even if that happens to be the case here.
4) At least one person out there now knows that I at least was not responsible for JE's death last night. While that doesn't clear me of being a wolf, it means that less likely I am one to that person's perspective.
5) Even if I am being converted even though thats unlikely, since I am a good guy right now, I have laid out the road map for our seers to know what to expect with me and plan accordingly.


Reasons to not listen to Barkeep:

1) He's already been playing very anti-charasteristic for himself this game. He usually is pro-lynch, this game he is anti-lynch. He is usually pro-reveal information, this game he is trying to punish people for revealing stuff.
2) Instead of looking for someone who currently is evil, Barkeep is trying to point you to someone who currently isn't evil, who may never turn evil, and who absolutely wasn't involved in JE's death last night.

Basically listen to Barkeep and you waste a day, lynch a villager and lose even more time to the wolves.

If you listen to me, you can continue to focus on who the wolves may be, the seers have the ability to keep an eye on me and scan me at an appropriate time, and you can wait and see what else happens in future nights.

[JHandley]

sigh....

we may as well have lynched Antmeister yesterday using the logic being employed today against Neon Chaos.

VOTE BARKEEP

I agree we should have lynched Antmeister or Neon yesterday. But we didn't, so to me we're just making up for what should have happened yesterday.

[Barkeep49]

right now I am leaning towards you.

You made what I consider an odd vote on Neon Chaos, then jumped to Alan, then claimed Kwhits actions were wolflike, seems like you are creating some confusion.
I didn't actually mean KWhit was wolfish, simply trying to point out the flaw in his thinking.

I don't think I have a fight in me so if people want to go after me, it'll likely be a successful though fruitless effort.

[Barkeep49]

Alan why did you waste your vote yesterday? You seemed to be in favor of lynching yet you didn't vote for someone who could have been lynched with a vote switch? My vote is on you based on precaution. But your strange deadline vote hasn't recieved any real scrutiny.

Also: I have explained why I didn't think there should be a Day 1 lynch. I am not pro-role reveal in games where not everyone has a role. Only in games where everyone has a role (or in your game, an item).

[Gonzo]

Vote Alan T

Let's be serious here. If someone blacks out after dinner and doesn't remember anything they did during the night, then wakes up in bed the next morning, it's screaming Lycanthorpe at me. Does anyone remember the Futurama episode where Bender turns into the Werecar? It's a lot like that. In traditional mythology, werewolves have no memories of what they did at all during transformation.

[Alan T]

Alan why did you waste your vote yesterday? You seemed to be in favor of lynching yet you didn't vote for someone who could have been lynched with a vote switch? My vote is on you based on precaution. But your strange deadline vote hasn't recieved any real scrutiny.

Also: I have explained why I didn't think there should be a Day 1 lynch. I am not pro-role reveal in games where not everyone has a role. Only in games where everyone has a role (or in your game, an item).

Still trying to mislead people? Please show me any place I could have voted that would have changed the outcome.

Looks like gonso is your wolf buddy too

[Alan T]

Vote Alan T

Let's be serious here. If someone blacks out after dinner and doesn't remember anything they did during the night, then wakes up in bed the next morning, it's screaming Lycanthorpe at me. Does anyone remember the Futurama episode where Bender turns into the Werecar? It's a lot like that. In traditional mythology, werewolves have no memories of what they did at all during transformation.

Outstanding, then like I said, a seer can scan me and verify that.

[Gonzo]

Outstanding, then like I said, a seer can scan me and verify that.

Isn't that wasting a scan on someone who in all probability is turning into a wolf and who could easily be lynched today? It would be far better to use the scan on an unknown quantity (like me :D).

[JHandley]

I can't wrap my head around the arguement that we shouldn't lynch on day 1 because we might kill a villager but we should kill Alan, because "something" happened to him last night.

We are no where. There's 3 villagers who know next to nothing, and tehy can't say a damn thing. There's (so far) one player who knows a trace more than nothing. The rest of us are bumbling about in the dark, still.

I think floating ideas are good, but a vote this early is exactly like a day 1 vote. We are exactly where we were yesterday, but suddenly Gonzo is confident.

[JHandley]

Actually, voting for Alan is worse than voting for a blank villager yesterday. At least Alan knows something. Clearly he's got a target on his back now, and if he or his theories start to go sideways, then he's toast. Killing Neon or Ant, neither of which have added anything remotely constructive, limits our range of possible wolves.

[Alan T]

Isn't that wasting a scan on someone who in all probability is turning into a wolf and who could easily be lynched today? It would be far better to use the scan on an unknown quantity (like me :D).

No, because I am good, and I likely will stay good. But you and Barkeep instead of focusing on trying to find the people who are bad, you want to point people at me.

So if the only way you will believe me is for people to scan me, then so be it. But to lynch me is not only foolish, its reckless.

[Gonzo]

No, because I am good, and I likely will stay good. But you and Barkeep instead of focusing on trying to find the people who are bad, you want to point people at me.

So if the only way you will believe me is for people to scan me, then so be it. But to lynch me is not only foolish, its reckless.

Your logic is "I'm good, it would be stupid to lynch me"?

I feel that we should lynch you because you're likely turning into a werewolf, even if you're unaware of it.

[Alan T]

Your logic is "I'm good, it would be stupid to lynch me"?

I feel that we should lynch you because you're likely turning into a werewolf, even if you're unaware of it.

You know this because you are the mad scientist I presume?

I don't think it had anything to do with conversion, and even if it did, people can scan me in another day or two to make sure.

At least you were nice enough to let us know you were bad though to make today's lynch easy.

[JHandley]

Your logic is "I'm good, it would be stupid to lynch me"?

I feel that we should lynch you because you're likely turning into a werewolf, even if you're unaware of it.

Under that logic, shouldn't we have lynched someone yesterday because they could be turning into a werewolf?

Killing Alan gains us nothing but getting rid of someone who might have information.

[JHandley]

We are all potential werewolves.

[JHandley]

Triple Dola

Bear in mind, I'm not completely disagreeing with your assertion that Alan is likely turning into a werewolf. He's clearly a target. If he starts to clam up, we whack him, if he starts to act inconsistent, we whack him. He's gotta be on his toes.

Killing him now, while he's still talking and putting out information makes less sense than killing a random villager which is what you were so adamantly opposed to yesterday. I think there are better options today than Alan.

[Alan T]

Triple Dola

Bear in mind, I'm not completely disagreeing with your assertion that Alan is likely turning into a werewolf. He's clearly a target. If he starts to clam up, we whack him, if he starts to act inconsistent, we whack him. He's gotta be on his toes.

Killing him now, while he's still talking and putting out information makes less sense than killing a random villager which is what you were so adamantly opposed to yesterday. I think there are better options today than Alan.

I'd like to think that I'm good enough of a player that if I did turn into a WW that i would play the same way as I am currently. However that said, the line that I'm turning into a WW is exactly what the wolves want you to think.

IF YOU VOTE FOR ME, YOU DON'T KILL A WOLF.

So of course they want me dead today. All I'm saying is the message that i got. I fully expect to have a target on my head because of it. I have no problems with people scanning me because I'm good and want us to win.

So which would everyone rather do.. Vote for someone who IS NOT a Wolf, and who might or might not end up one... Or try to find someone who is a wolf today?

Of course the wolves will be trying to push the vote on me today, because it means you aren't looking at them. which is exactly what they want.

I for one refuse to go down without a fight, so I'll work until I no longer am alive to try to find a wolf, I guess we will see if there are many others in this village who are as interested as I am to find a wolf, or if most of you are more interested in trying to just avoid being lynched just like the wolves.

[Barkeep49]

Alan, I'm frankly amazed at your play. I can understand your thinking Gonso or I are wolves, but to come out so fiercely against both of us is just making it look like you're:
1. Either a wolf and are worried so you're aggressively defending yourself
2. Letting votes against you bother you more than they should

[cartman]

wow, a lot to chew through since last night. I was out until 5 am with my cousin for his birthday, am just now starting to feel normal. Let me parse these last couple of pages and getback up to speed.

[Alan T]

Alan, I'm frankly amazed at your play. I can understand your thinking Gonso or I are wolves, but to come out so fiercely against both of us is just making it look like you're:
1. Either a wolf and are worried so you're aggressively defending yourself
2. Letting votes against you bother you more than they should

I've always , always, always made sure to argue my case when I'm under scrutiny. This is true when I am a good guy, this is true when I am a bad guy. You of all people should know that I always make sure to state my case and never go down without a fight.

I will never self vote, I will never just give up, I play the game to try to win. And lynching me will not accomplish that here for the good guys. I am suprised you don't remember every other time I've been under fire people exclaiming the same thing you just did.

As for letting votes bother me more than they should, its not the votes that bother me as much as the people who would blindly follow them onto a bandwagon to either A) Try to hide in a vote while killing a villager if they are a wolf, or B) To go with the flow and not actually try to make a individual decision.

[Gonzo]

IF YOU VOTE FOR ME, YOU DON'T KILL A WOLF.

I never understand that play. Anyone could say the same thing, it doesn't mean anything.

[Barkeep49]

Still trying to mislead people? Please show me any place I could have voted that would have changed the outcome.

Looks like gonso is your wolf buddy too
If you had voted for JE it would have been:

8 No lynch (including Neon's vote)
7 JE

You could have voted even at 8:55 if you'd wanted, giving someone a last minute chance to go over. Instead you voted at the last minute, throwing away your vote. Why CR? You didn't answer.

What if you were scanned last night and know it? Your play, wanting to know who it was that did it to you, is entirely consistent with trying to out a seer. Now you go hard after those who are voting for you because you know one of us (not me alas) is the seer. Your play would be consistent with that as well.

I don't think that's as likely as your being knocked out for evil purposes last night, but your aggressive/defensive play today makes me think you're a wolf flushing out a seer.

[Barkeep49]

Alan: I'm not surprised you're defending yourself. What is surprising is the idea that anyone who votes for you is part of a wolf plot. I understood it better when you were just going after me for it. Now you've got Gonso int he same category. Seems paranoid to me. My last post suggests an explanation, even if I think the more likely version is something.

[Alan T]

If you had voted for JE it would have been:

8 No lynch (including Neon's vote)
7 JE

You could have voted even at 8:55 if you'd wanted, giving someone a last minute chance to go over. Instead you voted at the last minute, throwing away your vote. Why CR? You didn't answer.

What if you were scanned last night and know it? Your play, wanting to know who it was that did it to you, is entirely consistent with trying to out a seer. Now you go hard after those who are voting for you because you know one of us (not me alas) is the seer. Your play would be consistent with that as well.

I don't think that's as likely as your being knocked out for evil purposes last night, but your aggressive/defensive play today makes me think you're a wolf flushing out a seer.

First of all, you either didn't do a good job reading the thread last night, or you are still trying to mislead people.

I brought up the fact that I could vote JE if someone else switches well before 8:55, yet no one did. Second, if I did, and someone else switched, it would have been tied and still mean NO LYNCH. So even though I talked about people switching, no one did and it required 2 people in addition to me to lynch him.

Third, I did explain my Chief Rum vote last night.

I think its far more likely that you constantly mislead people, and tell flat out mistruths is more of a reflection on you than on me.

[Alan T]

I never understand that play. Anyone could say the same thing, it doesn't mean anything.

Sure it means things. Often in games there are people who can take a sentence and read it for truth. I fully welcome anyone with that type of ability to do so as well.

There is alot of power in what people say. most people try to never tell lies either as villager or wolves if possible, because its too easy to be caught up in a lie.

The fact I am being very out front and open just restates the fact that I am human.

[Alan T]

Alan: I'm not surprised you're defending yourself. What is surprising is the idea that anyone who votes for you is part of a wolf plot. I understood it better when you were just going after me for it. Now you've got Gonso int he same category. Seems paranoid to me. My last post suggests an explanation, even if I think the more likely version is something.

Well in fact I do think that people who go after me with a very lousy reason, and stating things that aren't true do have some alterior motive.

I guess I luckily have my vote to state who I think is a wolf at some point today.

I can't think of many reasons why you would want to vote for a Good guy unless you are bad, so you being a wolf is definitly up there in top reasons in my mind right now.

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get me.

[Barkeep49]

How is using your night PM and trying to interpret it, something you can do no better than us, a lousy reason?

[Barkeep49]

I did see that you asked for someone to switch. Why not take the lead and do it yourself? If someone had switched from no Lynch onto JE that would have done the lynch. Where did you explain your vote for CR? When I went back to look to make sure I remembered things right your post voting for him just said "la la la"

[Gonzo]

The fact I am being very out front and open just restates the fact that I am human.

It restates the fact that you think you are human. If the Mad Scientist can slow-convert people to being a wolf, you wouldn't know you are being turned into one.

Saying "I'm a villager" doesn't instantly mean you are a villager.

[tanglewood]

I think that the Alan T revelation is more likely a bad thing for us than a good thing. I don't really see how someone waking up in the morning with no memory of the previous night is a good thing to happen. I agree that it is a strong possibility that Alan T has been infected somehow and is in the process of turning into a wolf, even unknowingly.

However, the player I am most worried about currently is Barkeep. He was anti-lynch yesterday which I have never seen him propose before and is acting generally out of character with odd vote choices.

[tanglewood]

Barkeep, why are you attacking Alan T for not earnestly trying to make a lynch happen when you were so anti-lynch yesterday anyway?

Either you believe that a lynch yesterday was bad for the village, so Alan T actually helped the village even if for the wrong reasons. Or you believe that a lynch would have been good, which explains attacking Alan, but doesn't explain why you voted for no lynch and pushed it so heavily.

[Alan T]

I did see that you asked for someone to switch. Why not take the lead and do it yourself? If someone had switched from no Lynch onto JE that would have done the lynch. Where did you explain your vote for CR? When I went back to look to make sure I remembered things right your post voting for him just said "la la la"


Now you have to be flat out lying. You're digging a big hole for you. Not only was the below quote posted last night, there was dialog back and forth about it. So you expect us to believe that you analyzed all of the posts last night, yet didn't see Chief commenting about my vote at the deadline, then my response below, then his response to that, then my response back, then his response back???

You are full of it.

My vote anywhere wouldn't have changed anything. So it was a statement vote.

Basically looked at people who voted where they did, and I think as normal the wolves wouldn't be consolidated in one spot. So out of the people who voted JE, i tried to figure which was the most "wolfish" to me. So I picked you.

Was just a day 1 vote, and doubt I'll pursue it tommorrow. Just needed to go somewhere with it, and it was either going to be you or Neon for not showing up.

[Barkeep49]

Barkeep, why are you attacking Alan T for not earnestly trying to make a lynch happen when you were so anti-lynch yesterday anyway?

Either you believe that a lynch yesterday was bad for the village, so Alan T actually helped the village even if for the wrong reasons. Or you believe that a lynch would have been good, which explains attacking Alan, but doesn't explain why you voted for no lynch and pushed it so heavily.
Either you were in favor of lynch you weren't. I wasn't. If you were in favor of a lynch, which Alan said he was leaning against all day before finally deciding to vote for someone, he should have voted for JE. That is the action consistent with lynching someone, since there was a chance for JE to be lynched. Alan's vote promoted not lynching someone, while not voting no lynch. Seems like he was trying to have it both ways. That is what I am criticising him about, as his actions weren't consistent with someone on either side of the debate, at that point in time.

[Barkeep49]

My vote anywhere wouldn't have changed anything. So it was a statement vote.

Basically looked at people who voted where they did, and I think as normal the wolves wouldn't be consolidated in one spot. So out of the people who voted JE, i tried to figure which was the most "wolfish" to me. So I picked you.

Was just a day 1 vote, and doubt I'll pursue it tommorrow. Just needed to go somewhere with it, and it was either going to be you or Neon for not showing up.
Here's Alan's reason. He was basically insisting on throwing away his vote. Either he believed in a lynch or he didn't. He acted on neither. His vote could have had an impact, but he chose to have it have none.

Anyhow, normally a good werewolf argument gets me into the game. Instead I'm just feeling like I'm arguing pointlessly. I'm going to go away from the thread for a while.

[Alan T]

Sorry that my pointing out all the flaws in your arguement upset you..


Its just a bad move to lynch me today. You shouldn't ever lynch someone who you think is a villager.

I gave many reasons why people shouldn't lynch me, you couldn't give one good one why you should.

[st.cronin]

Vote count:

2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)
2 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348)
1 - RendeR - path12 (282)
1 - Lathum - Dodgerchick (326)
1 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349)

Not voted: JHandley, LoneStarGirl, Antmeister, Telle, DaddyTorgo, cartman, Schmidty, Alan T, Chief Rum, Neon_Chaos, tanglewood

[JHandley]

Subject to change, of course.

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[Lathum]

I just don't see Alan making the plays he is making as a wolf, and even so we can look at him down the road.

[path12]

As for letting votes bother me more than they should, its not the votes that bother me as much as the people who would blindly follow them onto a bandwagon to either A) Try to hide in a vote while killing a villager if they are a wolf, or B) To go with the flow and not actually try to make a individual decision.

Alan, I don't think it's either of those cases at all. I'm not planning to switch my vote at this time, but really -- the PM you got looks more ominous than good to me, and I suspect that if someone else got it you would wonder the same thing.

[Lathum]

I think lynching AlanT today is a mistake.

IF he was converted we can lynch him tomorrow, I think it makes more sense to wait and see if somone has the same thing happen tomorrow. I think it possible there is a role out there that can put a player to sleep at night. I doubt this is a 1 time ability otherwise it wouldn't be used so early.

I think we lay off AlanT today and see if someone comes back with the same message tomorrow, even if that means lynching Neon Chaos instead.

[Lathum]

dola- I'm out until the deadline, I think lynching Alant is a mistake until we know more about what happened to him.

[Schmidty]

Ok, well I just read through everything, which basically consisted of Alan revealing a PM that doesn't mean much, as it could signify a number of things, and Alan and BK arguing a lot. I don't know that a wolf would be so loud and obnoxious at this point, since everyone else in the game is quiet, so I wonder if either of them are WWs. Or, maybe they are doing the "wolf-riffing-off-wolf" thing, I don't know.

Anyway, I was pissed about the no-vote yesterday, and voted path12 because he lead the charge, but that went nowhere. Because we need to try to get something done, I'll go with someone that has enough votes to actually get lynched, and really hasn't been around much. As usual, this is subject to change, especially if NC can give a good reason as to why we shouldn't vote for him:

Vote Neon Chaos

Family will be here this weekend, so I'll be off and on very sporadically.

[JHandley]

Should be back by the deadline, but if not, I'm still comfortable with my vote.

[Chief Rum]

Slow conversion, people? Come on, do you all really believe that bull? It's not like that is a common action in WW games. I hardly think we should leap to it here. Alan had a visitor last night. We don't know if that person was good or bad. Alan hasn't said he isn't the same as yesterday or that his status has changed. So I say we have very little good reason to lynch him today.

I defintiely don't like BK arguing against AlanT on the grounds he is when he voted No Lynch, and was very anti-lynch all day. I'm not saying he can't argue it, but it just seems hypocritical and has less impact because of that. I mean, if BK really wanted Alan to lynch JE, he could have made it possible himself by switching his own vote.

That said, I am staying out of this one. I don't think either Alan or BK or wolves. We need to wait another night and see if someone else comes out with the same information.

I am leaning toward the useless villager ploy, but there are too many votes on Neon Chaos. We'll learn more in a closer vote. So I'm putting my vote on the other UTR player.

VOTE ANTMEISTER

[st.cronin]

updated vote count:

4 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393)
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)
1 - RendeR - path12 (282)
1 - Lathum - Dodgerchick (326)
1 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349)
1 - Antmeister - Chief Rum (395)

Not voted: LoneStarGirl, Antmeister, Telle, DaddyTorgo, cartman, Alan T, Neon_Chaos, tanglewood

[Antmeister]

I agree we should have lynched Antmeister or Neon yesterday. But we didn't, so to me we're just making up for what should have happened yesterday.


Well anyone is free to scan me. And at this point, I still don't have much information to go on. However, I would have to agree with Lathum about the aggressiveness of Barkeep's accusations. So I will go ahead and:

Vote Barkeep

[DaddyTorgo]

well i'm done with harry potter and around

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree with lathum and alan that it doesn't make sense to lynch alan at this point. I also agree that barkeep's play has been drastically different than his usual play.

I also am not comfortable voting for Neon Chaos either as they are a lot of votes on him and that seems like an easy "hide" for wolves, implying that he's good. I think at this point I'm leaning towards Barkeep or Ant.

[cartman]

Hmm. I've gone back and re-read everything since the events last night, and I'm a bit stumped as to how to proceed. DT's post right above mine seems to make a lot of sense. It could be that the wolves are trying to push the villagers to lynch their own, and if they aren't lynched, they issue the kill. That line of reasoning would bear fruit if the votes change and Neon Chaos isn't lynched, but is killed tonight anyway.

[JHandley]

Cartman, I get what you're saying. But, if there's another no lynch tonight, I'm seriously giving up on the village ;)

[cartman]

Well, absent another breakthrough post, I'm going with:

VOTE NEON CHAOS

[JHandley]

If we surmise that the wolves can convert villagers to wolves, then wouldn't it make sense for them to tap inactive players? I don't think that BK is being aggressive, just premature. There's no reason to kill Alan yet, but there may and probably should be reason to kill him tomorrow or day 4.

[cartman]

I'm out until after the 9pm cutoff. I'm going out for more late night punishments with my cousins up here in Fort Worth...

:)

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE BARKEEP

[tanglewood]

Here's Alan's reason. He was basically insisting on throwing away his vote. Either he believed in a lynch or he didn't. He acted on neither. His vote could have had an impact, but he chose to have it have none.

The problem I see with this is that I think there is no way a wolf would make up such a pm message and tell everyone the way Alan has on day 2 of a game. It makes no sense. I think there is a fair chance that Alan has been converted and he himself may not realise it at this point, but I am pretty sure that he was a good guy on day 1, so analysing day 1 actions as a reason to vote for him doesn't make sense.

[Alan T]

This is what I see the votes at currently:

5 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), Cartman
3 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister, Daddytorgo
2 - Alan T - Barkeep49 (328), Gonzo (356)
1 - RendeR - path12 (282)
1 - Lathum - Dodgerchick (326)
1 - Antmeister - Chief Rum (395)

Not voted: LoneStarGirl, Telle, Alan T, Neon_Chaos, tanglewood


So another vote or two for barkeep, and his life might be in my hands!

[Barkeep49]

Another vote or two for me and I'd switch to Neon out of self preservation. At this point, I am tempted to argue that Lathum's full throated agreement with Alan about Alan being good leads me to think that Lathum is more likely evil now, though I still think Alan is a threat to us down the road.

[tanglewood]

Another vote or two for me and I'd switch to Neon out of self preservation. At this point, I am tempted to argue that Lathum's full throated agreement with Alan about Alan being good leads me to think that Lathum is more likely evil now, though I still think Alan is a threat to us down the road.

Alan could well be a threat. But not for the reasons you were attacking him. So now to me your switch off ont someone else looks dodgy too. I am this close to voting for you. But I am not sure if you are a wolf or you are just playing a bit lazy. And I don't consider you as someone who plays a lazy game of WW, Barkeep.

[LoneStarGirl]

Okay guys I just got back from umpiring, I only have 10 minutes. Can anybody give me a run down?

[JHandley]

What's dodgy about switching to Neon to keep himself from being lynched?

[Barkeep49]

Alan could well be a threat. But not for the reasons you were attacking him. So now to me your switch off ont someone else looks dodgy too. I am this close to voting for you. But I am not sure if you are a wolf or you are just playing a bit lazy. And I don't consider you as someone who plays a lazy game of WW, Barkeep.
Lazy? Man I don't get how what I've done has been lazy.

[Barkeep49]

Alan could well be a threat. But not for the reasons you were attacking him. So now to me your switch off ont someone else looks dodgy too. I am this close to voting for you. But I am not sure if you are a wolf or you are just playing a bit lazy. And I don't consider you as someone who plays a lazy game of WW, Barkeep.
Why is Alan a threat then? I mean Alan is always a threat as an excellent bad guy, but is there more to it than that for you?

[tanglewood]

Lazy? Man I don't get how what I've done has been lazy.

Lazy in a logical sense.

[Barkeep49]

Lazy in a logical sense.
Really? You think that something strange happening to Alan last night is more likely good than evil? That's the basis of my argument.

As for against Lathum, I just wanted to get it out there. It's always easy to trust people as a wolf.

[DaddyTorgo]

LSG - Barkeep thinks Alan has been converted/was a wolf. Lathum+Alan think Barkeep is playing very unlike himself and is a wolf. wolves are likely hiding in the pile on neon chaos

[Telle]

Been busy with the little one's birthday party all day and trying to catch up with the posts.. but we're getting close to deadline..

VOTE BARKEEP49

[tanglewood]

Why is Alan a threat then? I mean Alan is always a threat as an excellent bad guy, but is there more to it than that for you?

Alan is a possible good guy unknowingly converted bad because of his pm he recieved. I do not think he was orignially a bad guy, nor thinks he is a bad guy (at least as of now) because if so he had no reason to reveal the pm as he did, when he did. Your logic of attacking him for his vote on day 1 thus does not make sense. He was almost certainly a good player on day 1, regardless of what his is now or could be tomorrow.

[Barkeep49]

UNVOTE ALAN T
VOTE NEON CHAOS


*sigh*

[Barkeep49]

Alan is a possible good guy unknowingly converted bad because of his pm he recieved. I do not think he was orignially a bad guy, nor thinks he is a bad guy (at least as of now) because if so he had no reason to reveal the pm as he did, when he did. Your logic of attacking him for his vote on day 1 thus does not make sense. He was almost certainly a good player on day 1, regardless of what his is now or could be tomorrow.
I have actually argued that his being converted was the most likely scenario. However, I find his flat out accusation against Gonzo to be far more out of character for him than anything I've done.

[RendeR]

unvote neon chaos

vote barkeep

[Alan T]

Hmm

[LoneStarGirl]

LSG - Barkeep thinks Alan has been converted/was a wolf. Lathum+Alan think Barkeep is playing very unlike himself and is a wolf. wolves are likely hiding in the pile on neon chaos

I have not read page 8 or 9, so this vote I am about to make is off of what little I have read and this post from Daddy. I totally agree that I think wolves are probably hiding in the Neon pile on, and there is probably a wolf that had a 'throw away vote' but if we are deciding to vote between Alant and Barkeep, and Alant got met by somebody last night, I kind of want to see what happens to alant over the next couple of days. I saw the word transformation mentioned, and I don't really know what that means, but I doubt a conversion happened on day 1.

So vote barkeep

[Alan T]

Quite a pile up on Barkeep at the end there.

Vote Neon_Chaos

[LoneStarGirl]

If Barkeep is not a wolf then I am sorry and I think we should look at those who pushed so hard for his lynching, in tomorrow's vote

[tanglewood]

I am ambivilant about lynching Neon Chaos. He is very unlikely to be a wolf, as even people who are busy will make time for a couple of posts minimum if they recieve a role pm. However he currently is adding nothing so is not that big a loss arguably.

However, I would rather have an inactive villager as a buffer of some sort than not try and hunt possible bad guys, therefore:

Vote Alan T

The pm has me suspicious. I don't see many ways losing your memory could be a good thing.

[Alan T]

Lets see what tanglewood does here

[LoneStarGirl]

Quite a pile up on Barkeep at the end there.

Vote Neon_Chaos

I dont understand why you didn't vote for him? Your vote here is like you are trying to save Barkeep. And you both are such good players that y'all might have been arguing for us to think you are on different sides when in fact you are on the same team.... This is suspicious

[tanglewood]

Quite a pile up on Barkeep at the end there.

Vote Neon_Chaos

So after all that, and you get in a position where you could force a Barkeep lynch, you vote someone else?

[Barkeep49]

We get a no lynch by my count.

[Alan T]

So after all that, and you get in a position where you could force a Barkeep lynch, you vote someone else?

Yep.. pretty much.

Anytime I see a 5 person run on someone without a great reason, especially with a ton of votes at the end, makes me think its not a wolf.

[st.cronin]

deadline

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3167/6400325galqo3.jpg

[Barkeep49]

I dont understand why you didn't vote for him? Your vote here is like you are trying to save Barkeep. And you both are such good players that y'all might have been arguing for us to think you are on different sides when in fact you are on the same team.... This is suspicious
Why would you want to see what happens to Alan in a couple of days when that is more likely to be bad than good and either way we won't likely know? I mean if he is turning bad he isn't too likely to tell us, and further is likely to claim that it was something innocent or good.

[Barkeep49]

Man a no lynch is just awful. I mean I'm glad to be around and all but we're now two days in with no lynch. That blows. It would have been better for me to die so you can all see again how my playing differently is no different than how I think in at least every game since we've resumed people have accused me of playing differently.

[st.cronin]

updated vote count:

7 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), cartman (402), Barkeep49 (419), Alan T (424)
6 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister (397), DaddyTorgo (405), Telle (417), RendeR (421), LoneStarGirl (423)
1 - Alan T - Gonzo (356), tanglewood (426)
1 - RendeR - path12 (282)
1 - Lathum - Dodgerchick (326)
1 - Antmeister - Chief Rum (395)

Not voted - Neon Chaos

Do I have the numbers right?

[tanglewood]

We get a no lynch by my count.

I have it Neon Chas 5 votes to 4 for you.

[Barkeep49]

Also, I'd point out that for two days now Alan has hinted at one thing all day long (No lynch D1, me D2) and then found a last minute reason to go in another direction. Alan if you are human, I don't think those stunts do the village any good.

[LoneStarGirl]

Yep.. pretty much.

Anytime I see a 5 person run on someone without a great reason, especially with a ton of votes at the end, makes me think its not a wolf.

Where are you getting 5 people from? I see me Telle and Render. And I haven't been here all day, haven't even read the last 2 pages of the thread nor did I see Render's vote for BK, so it was really a 2 person run on him.

[tanglewood]

Hmm, maybe I missed a bunch of votes somewhere...

[RendeR]

Cronin, you have me voting twice, my vote should be on barkeep.

[LoneStarGirl]

Hmm, maybe I missed a bunch of votes somewhere...

Counting isn't your strong suit, its okay :D

[Barkeep49]

cronin: I get your vote count if you don't count Render's vote as not following the rules. Otherwise I get 6-6.

[tanglewood]

updated vote count:

7 - Neon Chaos - KWhit (344), RendeR (348), JHandley (388), Schmidty (393), cartman (402), Barkeep49 (419), Alan T (424)
6 - Barkeep49 - Lathum (349), Antmeister (397), DaddyTorgo (405), Telle (417), RendeR (421), LoneStarGirl (423)
1 - Alan T - Gonzo (356), tanglewood (426)
1 - RendeR - path12 (282)
1 - Lathum - Dodgerchick (326)
1 - Antmeister - Chief Rum (395)

Not voted - Neon Chaos

Do I have the numbers right?

You have Render voting for both Barkeep and Neon Chaos. He changed to Neon Chaos.

[LoneStarGirl]

Cronin, you have me voting twice, my vote should be on barkeep.

Damn, so that would be a no lynch.

[Alan T]

Where are you getting 5 people from? I see me Telle and Render. And I haven't been here all day, haven't even read the last 2 pages of the thread nor did I see Render's vote for BK, so it was really a 2 person run on him.


Antmeister, Daddytorgo, Telle, Render, Lonestargirl all voted barkeep to blow it open while only Cartman and barkeep went a different direction.

I watched all day to see what happened, and even egged it on to see who came in with votes.

All arguements today aside, I understand Barkeep's viewpoint and just think he's wrong about how to handle my situation is all. I don't think Barkeep would be arguing the way he did if he was a wolf (despite what i said earlier today), and I think Barkeep is a good player whom the wolves would like to get rid of.

I see no reason for that many people to jump on him for speaking his mind, while letting someone who hasn't contributed anything at all go for another day.

[tanglewood]

You have Render voting for both Barkeep and Neon Chaos. He changed to Neon Chaos.

Sorry, he changed to Barkeep. As per his won words I guess...

[RendeR]

Damn, so that would be a no lynch.


Yeah, i am pretty stunned by Alan T's vote after all that yacking. I expected his vote to be on barkeep as well and shifted to him based on the ongoing conversation.

Stupid ties.

[JHandley]

Damn, so that would be a no lynch.

And another missed vote from Neon.

[DaddyTorgo]

that's an interesting fustercluck there

[st.cronin]

Thanks guys, I thought I had made an error.

Ok, the result of today's discussion is

NO LYNCH

pms coming... my connection is slower than a turtle right now, so be patient

[Barkeep49]

Yeah, i am pretty stunned by Alan T's vote after all that yacking. I expected his vote to be on barkeep as well and shifted to him based on the ongoing conversation.

Stupid ties.
Well it's only a tie depending on how he interprets the rules. I think your intent was clear and the vote easy to count, so I'll be interested to see if he does what the rules say or what common sense says :)

[Barkeep49]

So this simultaneous thing means that the wolves are unlikely to have killed me since I was raising so much suspicion. Yeah for living another day, I suppose.

[Antmeister]

that's an interesting fustercluck there

That's an understatement. I am not quite sure why people are so strong on Neon Chaos. There is nothing in his verbage that seems out of line, yet Barkeep is all over the place. Hmmmm.

[tanglewood]

If I realised it was a tie I would have broken it, but I missed JHandley's vote for NeonChaos on page 8 in my quick tally. Sorry guys.

[LoneStarGirl]

That's an understatement. I am not quite sure why people are so strong on Neon Chaos. There is nothing in his verbage that seems out of line, yet Barkeep is all over the place. Hmmmm.

I dont understand why they think his non votes are significant. I honestly dont believe a wolf would miss two votes in a row

[tanglewood]

So this simultaneous thing means that the wolves are unlikely to have killed me since I was raising so much suspicion. Yeah for living another day, I suppose.

They could have sent in a conditional kill, but I don't think there was anyway they would have killed you tonight anyway.

[Barkeep49]

That's an understatement. I am not quite sure why people are so strong on Neon Chaos. There is nothing in his verbage that seems out of line, yet Barkeep is all over the place. Hmmmm.
Well I'd point out that Neon will become increasingly hard to kill as time goes on and shows no signs of adding anything to the game.

I'd also point out that last game, I was very firmly in certain places and was very much a wolf. Though I was pretty firmly in certain places the game before and was a villager. But I would say a definite hole in my wolf game that I plan to plug is how firmly in one place I was last game.

[LoneStarGirl]

So I guess that the wolves didn't kill anybody tonight? Or cronin is just really slow.

[Barkeep49]

So I guess that the wolves didn't kill anybody tonight? Or cronin is just really slow.
Cronin mentioned that his net connection was bad. My guess is he's sending out PMs first and then will post night results.

[Gonzo]

Oh great. No-lynch.

Well that's a disaster then.

[tanglewood]

Antmeister, Daddytorgo, Telle, Render, Lonestargirl all voted barkeep to blow it open while only Cartman and barkeep went a different direction.

The run of votes went

Barkeep
Neon Chaos
Barkeep
Barkeep
Neon Chaos
Barkeep
Barkeep
Neon Chaos
Alan T

So make of that what you will. I don't see that as a wholesale bandwagon, more of a normal momentum shift that is common near deadlines.

Plus, I don't see why you could be suprised at people voting for Barkeep, when you were arguing so strongly in favour of lynching him. "I argued for lynching Barkeep all day to see if I could convince anyone to vote for and I did so they must be wolves!" doesn't exactly make sense.

[st.cronin]

pms sent

Lathum has been murdered!


http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2484/7115193galyn9.jpg

Day 3 has officially begun, deadline 10pm Eastern time Sunday

[RendeR]

Is it just me or does her bustier color make it look like she's bare breasted in that outfit?

[Lathum]

fuck

[Barkeep49]

No night PM for me.

[LoneStarGirl]

Nothing for me either

[Gonzo]

The run of votes went

Barkeep
Neon Chaos
Barkeep
Barkeep
Neon Chaos
Barkeep
Barkeep
Neon Chaos
Alan T

So make of that what you will. I don't see that as a wholesale bandwagon, more of a normal momentum shift that is common near deadlines.

Plus, I don't see why you could be suprised at people voting for Barkeep, when you were arguing so strongly in favour of lynching him. "I argued for lynching Barkeep all day to see if I could convince anyone to vote for and I did so they must be wolves!" doesn't exactly make sense.

Well something's fishy about that bandwagon at any rate.

Personally I think we should go full steam ahead and Vote Alan T

He may well have been turned into a wolf by now.

[Alan T]

fuck

Looks like they didn't like you taking my side.

[DaddyTorgo]

none for me

guess you were a villegar this time for real though lathum

[Barkeep49]

Well something's fishy about that bandwagon at any rate.

Personally I think we should go full steam ahead and Vote Alan T

He may well have been turned into a wolf by now.
That is not a valid vote and will not be counted. You did not give a space between the vote and everything else on each side and it is not all in CAPS. Today's fiasco results from our not following the very strict rules. Best it doesn't happen again.

[LoneStarGirl]

I agree that I am kind of ticked at Alant after today. But I dont know if i am going to vote for him yet. Hopefully I will be online before 8 central tomorrow to catch up, but I have 5 games to umpire starting at 8:30 am. I will definitely be on in the morning though to see what happens over night

[Barkeep49]

Just looked over today's posts by Lathum. He didn't comment on anyone today except me and Alan. He thought Alan was good. He didn't like my style of play and thus voted for me.

[Barkeep49]

I agree that I am kind of ticked at Alant after today. But I dont know if i am going to vote for him yet. Hopefully I will be online before 8 central tomorrow to catch up, but I have 5 games to umpire starting at 8:30 am. I will definitely be on in the morning though to see what happens over night
I'm assuming you know this, but just in case, you do realize unlike last game we're in Day 3, as there are no Nights in this game?

[Gonzo]

That is not a valid vote and will not be counted. You did not give a space between the vote and everything else on each side and it is not all in CAPS. Today's fiasco results from our not following the very strict rules. Best it doesn't happen again.

Right.

VOTE ALAN T

[LoneStarGirl]

Just looked over today's posts by Lathum. He didn't comment on anyone today except me and Alan. He thought Alan was good. He didn't like my style of play and thus voted for me.

What do you think that means? Personally I think they just killed Lathum because he is known as such a good player. So I dont know if this makes me think we have some professional wolves, or if this means we have some newbie wolves who are afraid of somebody like Lathum

[LoneStarGirl]

I'm assuming you know this, but just in case, you do realize unlike last game we're in Day 3, as there are no Nights in this game?

Yah, I think you just misread what I said. I want to know what happens over night, like while I am asleep, not what happens in the night cycle. I am sure Chief is at work so he will be on after I am asleep, and Tanglewood will be waking up for work shortly, and other people will be crawling in from their Saturday night excursions, so by the time I wake up there should be a lot to catch up on.... That is what I meant.

[LoneStarGirl]

Antmeister, you have three posts so far this game. And incidentally that is equivalent to how many posts Neon has, and a lot of people were trying to get him lynched. So you better speak up before you are next.

[Gonzo]

Just looked over today's posts by Lathum. He didn't comment on anyone today except me and Alan. He thought Alan was good. He didn't like my style of play and thus voted for me.

Keep in mind that Lathum might actually in fact have been the Mad Scientist, so we can't 100% rely on voting records.

[JHandley]

I was under the impression from the rules that the Mad Scientist was working wtih the wolves?

[Barkeep49]

In the spirit of full disclose I just recieved the following PM from cronin (twice, actually), and since we can, I feel compelled to share the PM:

I have bad eyes, and its very difficult for me to see votes that are in the middle of a sentence when I'm skimming the thread.

As I explained to him I was not equating strict with bad. Simply strict with strict.

I will also point out that in no time in MY pm did something happen to me that I can't explain :D

[Barkeep49]

I was under the impression from the rules that the Mad Scientist was working wtih the wolves?
Yes but we don't know whether or not he knows who the wolves are and/or if the wolves know who he is.

[Barkeep49]

Antmeister, you have three posts so far this game. And incidentally that is equivalent to how many posts Neon has, and a lot of people were trying to get him lynched. So you better speak up before you are next.
I think the problem came more from Neon's lack of voting than posting, but would agree that Ant should speak up.

[LoneStarGirl]

I thought the Mad Scientist was a bad guy also.... and I assumed all the bad guys knew one another, which means Lathum couldn't have been the Mad Scientist...and if he was I bet cronin would have told us

[Barkeep49]

I thought the Mad Scientist was a bad guy also.... and I assumed all the bad guys knew one another, which means Lathum couldn't have been the Mad Scientist...and if he was I bet cronin would have told us
Let's look at the role description one more time:
Mad Scientist - You have found Dr. Frankenstein's old notes, and have begun work on an army of lycanthropes. If lynched, you will turn up as human, but for game purposes you count as a wolf.

I actually bet that we don't find out if the mad scientist dies hence the reason why he shows up human on death but counts for the bad guy figures. Whether he knows the wolves or not is a different question. If he can't convert the wolves, I think it's more likely that he knows who the wolves are, but they don't know who he is.

[Barkeep49]

That is the "begun work on an army of lycanthropes" is in reference to his having created the wolves already. In that scenario I think it's possible, even likely, that he'll know the wolves but they won't know him.

[Antmeister]

Well I'd point out that Neon will become increasingly hard to kill as time goes on and shows no signs of adding anything to the game.

I'd also point out that last game, I was very firmly in certain places and was very much a wolf. Though I was pretty firmly in certain places the game before and was a villager. But I would say a definite hole in my wolf game that I plan to plug is how firmly in one place I was last game.

You know, after the sequence of events that just occured, I am starting to side with you and AlanT. That last minute barrage does make you think. The fact that someone used something against AlanT makes me wonder if it were some sort of smokescreen to put our eyes on him. And now this anger for AlanT seems a bit odd. Right now, Chief Rum, LSG and Neon Chaos has me wondering about them.

Chief Rum is one of my candidates because he voted the odd man out. Not 100% sure on him, but suspicious.

LSG seems to want to pry the eyes away from Neon Chaos a little too hard. While I didn't understand the focus of his non-voting, I didn't understand why she began to mention that I had the same post count as him, because I might be next. I guess she doesn't realize there are others here with the same and that makes me wonder.

And the only reason why Neon Chaos suddenly became suspicious is that he could have easily changed his vote at the last moment, but I guess he didn't want to look too suspicious, so this barrage of votes for Barkeep came out of nowhere. Hmmmm.

[JHandley]

My problem with Neon is that if he gets converted to werewolf, would anyone know? He's checked in, got drunk and used random.org to place a vote on DT. That's it. My poppa always told me, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

I'm starting to wonder about the people who switched from Neon to BK. It seemed all day long that voting for Neon was a great place for the wolves to vote. I wonder if voting for BK to try and bump him off wouldn't be a good strategy for them.

[Telle]

Am I the only one (including st cronin appearantly!) that noticed that Neon_Chaos voted in post #318???

www.random.org compels me to vote.

VOTE DADDYTORGO

[Telle]

Other than JHandley appearantly (didn't see his post above mine before I posted).

[st.cronin]

I did overlook that vote, somehow. It wouldn't have changed the outcome.

[Telle]

No it wouldn't have.. but people were going on about how he missed two votes, and that's not the case.

[DaddyTorgo]

anyone else bothered by the convienence of that vote though? seems like it'd be real easy for a wolf to throwaway a D1 vote on me and blame it on random.org after the bad run of d1's that i've had lately...

[Telle]

It was a day 2 vote. He missed the vote on day 1. And in my book missing one vote and then throwing out a random.org vote the next day very early and then not showing up again isn't much better than missing two votes.. but figured I'd point out that he did actually vote on day 2.

[DaddyTorgo]

still, using random.org as an excuse seems like a relatively risk-free way for a wolf to try to get an early run going on me, which they would believe would work since i've been offed so early lately.

[Schmidty]

Just got back.

Totally lame that we have again not voted. I'm pretty disgusted right now.

[Telle]

still, using random.org as an excuse seems like a relatively risk-free way for a wolf to try to get an early run going on me, which they would believe would work since i've been offed so early lately.

I dunno.. maybe you're just getting paranoid since you've been offed early lately :) I could definitely see a theory that it's a way for a wolf to hide his vote though.

[DaddyTorgo]

we need a damm lynch. This is ridiculous

[Telle]

we need a damm lynch. This is ridiculous

Got any suggestions? :)

[Lathum]

What do you think that means? Personally I think they just killed Lathum because he is known as such a good player. So I dont know if this makes me think we have some professional wolves, or if this means we have some newbie wolves who are afraid of somebody like Lathum

aw shucks :p

[path12]

RendeR, why did you switch your vote?