Werewolf L Kate Beckinsale - day 7, deadline Thursday 10pm Eastern Time

[DaddyTorgo]

I feel like with only 2 starter wolves maybe lsg should have had 1 "convert anybody" conversion and 1 "can only convert 1 of 2 people if she finds them" type thing...for balance

[KWhit]

Good Game Cronin!

The wolves had us seriously guessing for the first few days.

Yes, day one and two could have gone better.

:)

[cartman]

Good Game Cronin!

The wolves had us seriously guessing for the first few days.

++1

It really wasn't until yesterday afternoon that things started to become clear to me. The night before, Telle and I considered using one of our saves on LSG. That would have been BAD.

[LoneStarGirl]

Bah... I think the there was no way we could have won with only 2 converts... but it was a fun game

[Chief Rum]

Wow, I was wondering just now if LSG could night kill. I couldn't remember if she could. I guess not.

Piggybacking on what hoops said, yeah, Alan happening to follow a wolf (me) on the night LSG went to try to convert him was tremendously bad luck. But WW games turn on that stuff all the time.

Good game, villagers!

P.S. I am hosting the next game. I will have a thread up in the next day (maybe even tonight, to get the word out before the weekend starts), and expect to start the game Monday or Tuesday depending on how participation is looking.

[Chief Rum]

Bah... I think the there was no way we could have won with only 2 converts... but it was a fun game

Actually, two potential converts is one more than I thought we had.

We also got unlucky in that two veteran players got those tendencies, since we aimed to kill the more dangerous players early on (which is normally a good WW move).

[Alan T]

THanks for the game Cronin.

Now since people have still been scratching their heads about what happened to me..

Basically, day 1, Chief Rum did something that I thought was odd with his vtoe, and if you remember at the end of the day I made a "statement vote" on him that people actually gave me heat for. Chief is someone that I don't like to be wrong about, and if was on our side would be valuable to protect him, but I got it in my head that I thought he was bad.. so since my role could protect and possibly reveal, I figured Chief was a no brain choice for night 1.

I tried to guard him, but couldn't since the same night LSG tried to convert me and thus block my action. I didn't realize it at the time, but LSG was the reason I blacked out and not Chief. After I received my night PM, the first thought that jumped in my head was that Chief was bad and I just failed on my attempt to watch him.. but I wasn't sure.. I would say 50% sure at best.

I decided then to try to play it differently, I thought perhaps someone else had an ability to block my night action (as I later said).. and didn't want to accuse Chief if he wasn't actually bad. He was too valuable as a villager to be wrong about it.. So I came out with the story that I did on day 2.

I realized I played it wrong though when I came out, and tried to back off some with the idea that I would think it most likely the person who did it was good and thought I was bad due to my weird day 1 vote. No one dropped a hint or anything though, and instead the talk about a "slow conversion" came up which I had never considered.

So instead of trying to verify how I felt about Chief on day 2, I spent all day under the crosshairs. Even on day 3 when I revealed, I wasn't convinced that I was right about Chief, and even when Barkeep moved to chief, I felt that I probably was but couldn't pull the trigger. Hoops and I were chatting on AIM about various stuff and he asked me about my move there.. I told him something along the lines that I felt Chief was bad, but I didn't feel with 14 minutes that it was worth it to try to lynch him.. I felt that it would only end up getting Barkeep lynched instead.

I thought about it another minute or two and then figured, why not try.. worst case I just move my vote back later.. so I moved to Chief and that run started that broke the game open a little for us.

As for Barkeep, I can't say that I really ever thought he was bad.. I kind of used him as bait a bit just to see how people would react. I felt Barkeep was too good of a villager as well to just blindly remove on day 2 for a lousy reason. I felt the wolves might want to get rid of him. I only became more certain about that when that late day run happened and decided at the end I wanted to save barkeep even if it meant no lynch.

I can't say that I played a great game.. but I do feel that I made two good reads in Barkeep and Chief at least.

[Chief Rum]

So what was about it my Day One vote that tipped you off? I don't recall much about it, although I believe I voted for JE, I think.

BTW, yes, thanks for a fun game, cronin. I had fun, even after I got lynched.

[Neon_Chaos]

I finally won a fucking game! ALRIGHT!

Good game st.cronin.

Great job villagers! :)

That little tease of a role reveal was just a bluff. ;)

[Alan T]

One other thing I wanted to bring up after the game.. the whole lynch vs no lynch debate.. just for fun :)

Its often been argued (even by me) that lynches are important for the village.. However in the game I ran a while back, a no lynch was very important for the village winning that game. Without that no lynch, the village might have lost.

This game as well, I feel the no lynches didn't hurt the village and in fact helped the village. The arguement is often that no lynching then leaves you guessing on day 3, 4, 5 instead of days 1,2,3. There was alot of guessing for the villagers later in this game, but I don't think it was due to the lynch/no-lynch on the early days.

Day 1 Was JE vs no one really.. JE was a villager, and his death wouldn't have told us anything. Plus it forced the wolves to use a night kill on him instead of someone else.

Day 2 was Render vs Barkeep, both villagers. The wolves didn't have to make moves at all.. so any late moves that might have seemed sneaky would have caused us to waste an additional 2 days trying to make head or tail of it.

With the way those no lynches happened, we still had late day moves that people could look further into, but we didn't lose villagers in return. Then day 3, the first lynch was of a wolf, which was partially luck, but it also speaks to buying enough time for your roles to get more information to the village.

Perhaps its time for me to take a new look at whether no lynches are harmful as I used to think they were.. I think this is two games in a row that seem to defy conventional wisdom.

[Neon_Chaos]

I guess RendeR wasn't a wolf after all.

:)

I'm glad I did some digging through a lot of posts to get you off the hook.

[Schmidty]

Not to make excuses, but I honestly don't think the game was quite fair.

One of the main reasons is that all 3 of the wolves had wierd schedules, and 2 of us were on PST. Plus, the fact that only 2 players were convertable pretty much made the game really, really tough for us.

Anyway, congrats to the humans. We did our best to win, but we didn't.

[LoneStarGirl]

It really hurt that the three of us couldn't get online Saturday or Sunday until an hour before deadline. Chief didn't even know people were voting for him until 30 minutes before the deadline when I messaged him and told him to defend himself.

[Neon_Chaos]

I wish I could have been sitting beside Chief Rum during that mass of switch votes after Alan's reveal. :)

[Alan T]

So what was about it my Day One vote that tipped you off? I don't recall much about it, although I believe I voted for JE, I think.

BTW, yes, thanks for a fun game, cronin. I had fun, even after I got lynched.

I guess it was a type of vote that I was looking for that you managed to fit in perfectly for me. The way i saw it, the wolves most likely were to make the exact move that you did.

I felt a wolf would go with the "conventional wisdom" and be a proponent of a lynch unless it was really so far one sided that they would have stuck out to do so.

I felt a wolf would go with the person who had the best chance of being lynched in order to ensure that we got that lynch.

I felt a lynch is win-win for a wolf there (even if it is good for the villager as well), I felt pretty confident that the wolves would want a day 1 lynch as the odds would be more likely a villager vs villager run off anyways.

So three votes jumped out to me on day 1 to fit where I thought a wolf would place a vote. Your vote, Render's vote and Tanglewood's vote. Since my role was a combined bodyguard block/mini-seer view it effected who I went for that night. I chose Chief because he was the one I felt I wanted to be the most sure of. That night then happened as I described earlier. The results of that night left me puzzled about chief, but thinking at least 50/50 he was bad. The reason I didn't want to pull the trigger actually was because of the criticism people have been giving me lately that I get an idea stuck in my head and refuse to listen to reason. I didn't want to make that mistake with Chief there oddly enough :)

[Chief Rum]

One other thing I wanted to bring up after the game.. the whole lynch vs no lynch debate.. just for fun :)

Its often been argued (even by me) that lynches are important for the village.. However in the game I ran a while back, a no lynch was very important for the village winning that game. Without that no lynch, the village might have lost.

This game as well, I feel the no lynches didn't hurt the village and in fact helped the village. The arguement is often that no lynching then leaves you guessing on day 3, 4, 5 instead of days 1,2,3. There was alot of guessing for the villagers later in this game, but I don't think it was due to the lynch/no-lynch on the early days.

Day 1 Was JE vs no one really.. JE was a villager, and his death wouldn't have told us anything. Plus it forced the wolves to use a night kill on him instead of someone else.

Day 2 was Render vs Barkeep, both villagers. The wolves didn't have to make moves at all.. so any late moves that might have seemed sneaky would have caused us to waste an additional 2 days trying to make head or tail of it.

With the way those no lynches happened, we still had late day moves that people could look further into, but we didn't lose villagers in return. Then day 3, the first lynch was of a wolf, which was partially luck, but it also speaks to buying enough time for your roles to get more information to the village.

Perhaps its time for me to take a new look at whether no lynches are harmful as I used to think they were.. I think this is two games in a row that seem to defy conventional wisdom.

This is still an interesting debate here. Nice to have it out of game. ;)

Just a point to make, though. We felt no pressure to lynch JE whatsoever. Not sure why you think that.

We killed JE to screw with the village's head. And, really, it worked. We had the whole village confused with our kill choices right up to yesterday. There was more than one comment that every day felt like a "Day One". I had a suspicion that effect could be created, but it was actually even more successful than I thought it would be.

The no lynch days did hurt in one way--the deadline tie voting became a difficult quagmire for people to parse for wolf votes, especially when neither candidate is a wolf.

[JHandley]

Alan, why did you come out acting as though something bad had happened to you after Night 1?

[Chief Rum]

I wish I could have been sitting beside Chief Rum during that mass of switch votes after Alan's reveal. :)

You would have been bored. I basically scanned the last page of the thread and said, "I'm fooked." Then I went into the thread to screw with Alan. :p

Who was about to die anyway.

[cartman]

My radar on LSG swung over to the 'bad' side when she called me out on the number of posts I had. The way I read it, she was trying to get me to trip up and say something that she could use to get me lynched.

[Gonzo]

Wow. I felt pretty certain that the Wolves were going to win that one. I'm not complaining though.

However in the game I ran a while back, a no lynch was very important for the village winning that game. Without that no lynch, the village might have lost.

Those no lynches did pretty much win us the game, IMHO.

[Chief Rum]

I guess it was a type of vote that I was looking for that you managed to fit in perfectly for me. The way i saw it, the wolves most likely were to make the exact move that you did.

I felt a wolf would go with the "conventional wisdom" and be a proponent of a lynch unless it was really so far one sided that they would have stuck out to do so.

I felt a wolf would go with the person who had the best chance of being lynched in order to ensure that we got that lynch.

I felt a lynch is win-win for a wolf there (even if it is good for the villager as well), I felt pretty confident that the wolves would want a day 1 lynch as the odds would be more likely a villager vs villager run off anyways.

So three votes jumped out to me on day 1 to fit where I thought a wolf would place a vote. Your vote, Render's vote and Tanglewood's vote. Since my role was a combined bodyguard block/mini-seer view it effected who I went for that night. I chose Chief because he was the one I felt I wanted to be the most sure of. That night then happened as I described earlier. The results of that night left me puzzled about chief, but thinking at least 50/50 he was bad. The reason I didn't want to pull the trigger actually was because of the criticism people have been giving me lately that I get an idea stuck in my head and refuse to listen to reason. I didn't want to make that mistake with Chief there oddly enough :)

There's only one hole in your approach there--I didn't pick JE because of anything wolfish. That was the exact vote I would have made. I was in favor of a lynch there no matter who I was, and would have voted JE to ensure a lynch for the lynch's sake. Also, as per usual, I was out at work all day before that, so I couldn't have voted earlier if I tried. Meh...them's the breaks.

I think it was a difficult game for the wolves, but I think we had a fair chance to take this one. The dice just wasn't on our side, and the villagers played a good game.

[Alan T]

There's only one hole in your approach there--I didn't pick JE because of anything wolfish. That was the exact vote I would have made. I was in favor of a lynch there no matter who I was, and would have voted JE to ensure a lynch for the lynch's sake. Also, as per usual, I was out at work all day before that, so I couldn't have voted earlier if I tried. Meh...them's the breaks.

I think it was a difficult game for the wolves, but I think we had a fair chance to take this one. The dice just wasn't on our side, and the villagers played a good game.

Well obviously Render and Tanglewood made almost identical votes to you and neither was a wolf either. It just happened to be the vote I was looking for and I guess I got lucky :)

I also think it was lucky that I watched Kwhit the next night and was able to help provide some trust for cartman before I bit it.

[Alan T]

Alan, why did you come out acting as though something bad had happened to you after Night 1?

Like I said, I think I just played it wrong initially.. I didn't want to come out too strong at Chief because I wasn't sure there, and I realized shortly after coming out on day 1 that I played it wrong. If you noticed, I tried to then steer it a bit differently like trying to make sure no one good was who blocked me.. but by then the whole conversion thing had come up and I realized I had blown it.

At that point it was about trying to make something out of nothing. If I had it to do over again, I definitly would have played that differently.

[Alan T]

You would have been bored. I basically scanned the last page of the thread and said, "I'm fooked." Then I went into the thread to screw with Alan. :p

Who was about to die anyway.


Hehe,. Cronin told me after the fact that I couldnt guard myself at night anyways. I was a goner no matter what

[Chief Rum]

Well obviously Render and Tanglewood made almost identical votes to you and neither was a wolf either. It just happened to be the vote I was looking for and I guess I got lucky :)

I also think it was lucky that I watched Kwhit the next night and was able to help provide some trust for cartman before I bit it.

Oh, yeah, forgot about that. That was annoying, them hopping on my vote like that. It painted a huge target on me.

Annoying in an in-game sense (and especially as a wolf), I mean, no animosity toward Render and tangle at all.

[Gonzo]

I think it was a difficult game for the wolves, but I think we had a fair chance to take this one. The dice just wasn't on our side, and the villagers played a good game.

I don't think it was a particularly good game for the villagers. If you'd killed KWhit before he revealed, we would have been running around like headless chickens for the most part.

[Neon_Chaos]

Now I REALLY AM glad that I went back to review the posts to after we almost landslide-lynched RendeR. :)

And I soooo wanted to be eaten by the Wolves just to end my headaches with the game. :) (but I looked sooooo much like a wolf, didn't I?)

[Alan T]

I don't think it was a particularly good game for the villagers. If you'd killed KWhit before he revealed, we would have been running around like headless chickens for the most part.

watching the game after I had died, I actually was very afraid this would have happened. I think it was bad luck that the wolves never hit kwhit or jhandley.. I was just waiting for one to die before they revealed anything.

I think Kwhit revealed the right day, and at the time I felt he waited way too long to reveal.. but in hindsight, his timing of the reveal set LSG up big time and probably was the best timing he could have done it.

[DaddyTorgo]

just glad we got kwhit's reveal in time and had sufficient numbers online at that point to actually do something...and tweak schmidty a bit to the point where it was fairly apparent that he overreacted and we were all able to notice it.

[Schmidty]

just glad we got kwhit's reveal in time and had sufficient numbers online at that point to actually do something...and tweak schmidty a bit to the point where it was fairly apparent that he overreacted and we were all able to notice it.

Yep, that's why this was probably my last WW game. I'm just not good at it, and I don't have the time the majority of you guys have to put into it. But it was a fun game for the most part.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

We killed JE to screw with the village's head. And, really, it worked.

I still don't understand why you all killed me. Why not just wait until day two and let the villagers take me out? By killing me, your actions basically voided the no lynch at the expense of a night kill. The villagers were able to gain some info from that day's vote and save a good guy at the same time. I really think that move helped out the villagers.

[DaddyTorgo]

Yep, that's why this was probably my last WW game. I'm just not good at it, and I don't have the time the majority of you guys have to put into it. But it was a fun game for the most part.

you're fine at it schmidty. Don't quit!:(

[Lathum]

We I thought was interesting was according to Cronin barkeep and I were the first two scanned so if we had lived and been converted we could have taken that a long way.

[Poli]

And Ardent: I pretty much stay away from GD at work for that very reason. But it would be cruel and unusual for you to suggest I stay away from WW at work :)
I'm a complicated guy, sweetheart.

[hoopsguy]

AE, don't you have a dynasty thread to update?

[Chief Rum]

I still don't understand why you all killed me. Why not just wait until day two and let the villagers take me out? By killing me, your actions basically voided the no lynch at the expense of a night kill. The villagers were able to gain some info from that day's vote and save a good guy at the same time. I really think that move helped out the villagers.

*Shurg* I thought the strategy had some interesting effects on the game. If we all play the same way, things get boring. Only trying it some more will truly tell if you're right, or if there's some merit to trying something different.

[Barkeep49]

It's interesting. The whole thing with Alan being so obtuse, for what reasons I couldn't divine (as I felt his actually being obtuse to be unlikely) was very frustrating as a villager. I really wasn't enjoying this game Days 1 and 2. In fact on Day 2, I debated whether it was even worth checking in to try and save myself. I warmed up to the game after that, but still was sort of relieved to be killed.

I will say that after my atrocious performance as a wolf, I'm quite happy with the analysis I did in this game. While I still maintain that in most games a no lynch on Day 1 is bad, I think the no lynch allowed our seers to collect the information, as expected. Our getting CR was lucky more than skill, however the underlying analysis was that what happened to Alan during that night was evil and not good, despite then drawing a couple of wrong conclusions from it. I am proud of myself for having convictions in the right things (Alan's event was bad for the village) while having flexibility in what it means (Alan was converted, to CR was evil).

I would also agree with the wolves that they could have used one more. I remarked to either Lathum or Alan after the game that deciding how many wolves to be in the game is always a tricky decision and think that when I've seriously debated between X and Y wolves, I always seem to make the wrong decision. I think Schmidty's gumming things up to force another no lynch was absolutely great play and, combined with his play in the Marvel game, shows us that his claims to being a bad werewolf are unfounded and false.

Also unfounded and false is DC's opinion of her play. I was sorry I wasn't around that day to defend Ollie since I was quite confident that DC was equally as likely to have quit being a wolf as a villager in that situation. On the other hand, I think our new players showed us a lot this game, which was nice to see. It can get tired having the same old thinking around and the three newer players injected some fresh ideas and skills.

[Alan T]

It's interesting. The whole thing with Alan being so obtuse, for what reasons I couldn't divine (as I felt his actually being obtuse to be unlikely) was very frustrating as a villager. I really wasn't enjoying this game Days 1 and 2. In fact on Day 2, I debated whether it was even worth checking in to try and save myself. I warmed up to the game after that, but still was sort of relieved to be killed.

I will say that after my atrocious performance as a wolf, I'm quite happy with the analysis I did in this game. While I still maintain that in most games a no lynch on Day 1 is bad, I think the no lynch allowed our seers to collect the information, as expected. Our getting CR was lucky more than skill, however the underlying analysis was that what happened to Alan during that night was evil and not good, despite then drawing a couple of wrong conclusions from it. I am proud of myself for having convictions in the right things (Alan's event was bad for the village) while having flexibility in what it means (Alan was converted, to CR was evil).

I would also agree with the wolves that they could have used one more. I remarked to either Lathum or Alan after the game that deciding how many wolves to be in the game is always a tricky decision and think that when I've seriously debated between X and Y wolves, I always seem to make the wrong decision. I think Schmidty's gumming things up to force another no lynch was absolutely great play and, combined with his play in the Marvel game, shows us that his claims to being a bad werewolf are unfounded and false.

Also unfounded and false is DC's opinion of her play. I was sorry I wasn't around that day to defend Ollie since I was quite confident that DC was equally as likely to have quit being a wolf as a villager in that situation. On the other hand, I think our new players showed us a lot this game, which was nice to see. It can get tired having the same old thinking around and the three newer players injected some fresh ideas and skills.

Just a comment on some of the things you said, about Schmidty he also was great in his role in the Middle Earth game too. He's a pretty good player when he has roles and never gives himself the credit he should.

I too enjoyed having all of the newer players around. I probably rubbed Gonzo the wrong way, but I liked the game having someone who didn't buckle under conventional wisdom or who wanted to stand their ground .. AND doing it in a way that wasn't insulting back to the other player. I thought Jhandley did great, his analysis at times I felt was very impressive, and I understand that this game might have been frustrating for him, it might have been frustrating for alot of people at times though :) I do hope both of them stick around for more games. I think Telle has gotten into the WW fever and her and Cartman being secret buddies this game was kind of neat. Was nice having JE back (even if it was only for 1 day!), and having Olliegirl, Antmeister and DC in was great too..

No offense to Barkeep or Hoops or Lathum or such.. but I'm tired of their faces, its really alot more fun when there are completely new people that you have to figure out. :)

[st.cronin]

One thing the wolves could have done differently that would have vastly enhanced their chances - killing players they had scanned. They killed Barkeep and Lathum before scanning either one, and in both cases there were players they had already scanned that they could have killed.

If they had killed Alan on night 2, and cartman on night 3, I think they might have run the table.

[st.cronin]

I thought JHandley and Antmeister both played very well. I also thought LSG and Schmidty played very strong games, with the exception of what I considered some shaky night moves.

I agree with Alan that its not easy to set the game balance. I think this is the most properly balanced game I've conceived, and went the way it did mostly because of luck. I like my games to be a little mysterious in terms of mechanics (hidden roles, uncertainty about what exactly a given role does, etc), and I think that tends to hurt the wolves more than the village.

Once again I want to admit that the Dodgerchick "incident" was ENTIRELY my fault. Not only should I have been clearer in the instructions about the nature of the pms, but she actually sent me a pm before the incident talking about being a wolf. I was really puzzled by it, but never got around to responding and asking what the heck she was talking about. In retrospect, I think I agree with Neon and the others who said that the proper solution was to simply remove her from the game.

[Alan T]

One question I have for everyone from this game.. now I can't argue with the results, but the logic to get there didn't completely make sense to me.

It seemed that alot of people decided Schmidty must be a wolf based on his voting for Gonzo after kwhit's reveal. I don't know if I fully understand that correlation here.

If Schmidty had been a good villager, he would have known that he was a good villager, and while kwhit said Gonzo wasn't a wolf, he might have been a mad scientist still. Why was it a wolf move for Schmidty to have voted for Gonzo there? Self preservation is usually a very common reason for votes and usually fully understandable.

Obviously Schmidty was bad, and the end result worked well for the villagers, I just don't understand why his self-preservation vote was singled out as one of the reasons he might have been a wolf.

[path12]

One question I have for everyone from this game.. now I can't argue with the results, but the logic to get there didn't completely make sense to me.

It seemed that alot of people decided Schmidty must be a wolf based on his voting for Gonzo after kwhit's reveal. I don't know if I fully understand that correlation here.

If Schmidty had been a good villager, he would have known that he was a good villager, and while kwhit said Gonzo wasn't a wolf, he might have been a mad scientist still. Why was it a wolf move for Schmidty to have voted for Gonzo there? Self preservation is usually a very common reason for votes and usually fully understandable.

Obviously Schmidty was bad, and the end result worked well for the villagers, I just don't understand why his self-preservation vote was singled out as one of the reasons he might have been a wolf.

The reason for me went back to the Chief Rum voting. Once I really took a look at that Schmidty jumped out at me. Then the way that last tie went down pretty much cinched it.

[Alan T]

I can understand the Chief RUm voting part. That made him stick out like a sore thumb. I just didn't understand why self-preservation voting was viewed as bad there.

[KWhit]

I can understand the Chief RUm voting part. That made him stick out like a sore thumb. I just didn't understand why self-preservation voting was viewed as bad there.

It was that in combination with the earlier stuff - chief rum vote, no helpful analysis at all, over-the-top attitude about being voted for.

His self preservation vote was really just the final straw.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I believe people also thought they had gotten the mad scientist with the Oliegirl lynch.

[JHandley]

I can understand the Chief RUm voting part. That made him stick out like a sore thumb. I just didn't understand why self-preservation voting was viewed as bad there.

I honestly was saving my vote because I thought LSG was going to get lynched. That last day she started coming up some real goofball ideas and started floating some theories that didn't quite jive with me. She was starting to make assumptions that I couldn't understand. I didn't want to be locked in on Schmidty and then have the tide turn to LSG.

I was tempted to try and talk people into a vote on LSG and then Schmidty the next day, seeing as how it was already decided it was going to be one and then the other. I wasn't confident we were right, but I felt that was as good a chance as any we had to win. But, in the end, I didn't want to give the wolves a chance to shake the solidarity we had formed. If it was Schmidty and then LSG, or LSG and Schmidty, it didn't really matter. So, I went with the rest of the village on it.

[JHandley]

Alan, I believe people also thought they had gotten the mad scientist with the Oliegirl lynch.

Especially with Kwhit's reveal. I did make a mistake in my play there. I should have investigated Oliegirl that night instead of Kwhit. Ended up ok because I was able to then completely trust Kwhit.

But, it was a mistake on my part to delay the scan on Oliegirl. In my defense, I was really confused about what to do about it until I cleared it with Cronin. The whole thing just felt wrong, but when I knew Kwhit was the seer and he immediately came out after Oliegirl following the night actions, I knew he knew something.

[cartman]

I really wish I was around 5 minutes earlier at the deadline on the next to last night. If I would have seen the info, I would have switched from Gonzo to Schmidty, and the game would have ended then.