Werewolf LXXII: Chess (Checkmate!)

[st.cronin]

gah

[The Jackal]

Vote RendeR

If the majority of the team wants to lynch olie and continue to follow cronin's plan, that's fine, but RendeR is a wolf. Up to you guys.

[jeheinz72]

Heinz,

My presentation rubbed you the wrong way, for which I apologize. I am simply trying to win the game, and doing my best to mount a persuasive argument.

Oh no worries man, I probably over-worded my true feelings. I mean I wasn't like pissed about it or anything, I just like the lines of communication and open thought to stay...open. :D

No worries Cronin.

[jeheinz72]

Hrm, my first thought seeing the two of them vote each other so quick is...both wolves? Or am I just being dense here?

[mccollins]

I don't think oliegirl should be lynched (yet). She can be useful to the villagers if she chooses to use her bodyguarding ability.

I think it's safe to say one of RendeR/Jackal is a wolf. 23.5 hours to post dig and figure out which is the safer vote.

[RendeR]

I know everyone is going to pile on me today because of jackal's supposed scan.

I know he's lying, but I'm just a white bishop, I have nothing to back me up.

Unless another knight scanned me last night?? perhaps? Let us hope anyway.

Even so, I want to lynch jackal first. We lose nothing by testing his claim and we verify everything he's said in the process.

If I'm a wolf and he's right, I die tomorrow either way, BUT if *I* am right, and I am. We kill a wolf tonight we kill another black player tomorrow and the game is all but locked up.

Killing me first leads to the same loop, but wastes a VILLAGER white player
Where lynching JACKAL first gives us a wolf. Either way we're at a good place tomorrow.

Go my way and we're ahead of the game, go his way, it slows us down a day and wastes a white player.

[jeheinz72]

I know everyone is going to pile on me today because of jackal's supposed scan.

I know he's lying, but I'm just a white bishop, I have nothing to back me up.

Unless another knight scanned me last night?? perhaps? Let us hope anyway.

Even so, I want to lynch jackal first. We lose nothing by testing his claim and we verify everything he's said in the process.

If I'm a wolf and he's right, I die tomorrow either way, BUT if *I* am right, and I am. We kill a wolf tonight we kill another black player tomorrow and the game is all but locked up.

Killing me first leads to the same loop, but wastes a VILLAGER white player
Where lynching JACKAL first gives us a wolf. Either way we're at a good place tomorrow.

Go my way and we're ahead of the game, go his way, it slows us down a day and wastes a white player.

But isn't Jackal going to make the same defense? I mean it's basically a his word vs yours thing.

I don't even know if it's worth going down that avenue yet or not.

[mccollins]

Unless another knight scanned me last night?? perhaps? Let us hope anyway.


There are no other Knights left in the game besides Jackal.

[RendeR]

Is that really the most important issue at hand?


I'm not sure I get your meaning?

At this stage with only 2 black pieces left and 2 wolves left we're in no danger of losing control of things.

I think we should eliminate the wolf and move on with mating black. With only 1 w2olf floating around they become pretty much neutered as to affecting the outcome of the game.

The danger I see is if the wolves night kill the white pawns. I would have thought that would be their first move when black went down so fast.

Leads me to believe one of the pawns is the last wolf.

but I digress.

[RendeR]

But isn't Jackal going to make the same defense? I mean it's basically a his word vs yours thing.

I don't even know if it's worth going down that avenue yet or not.


thats exactly what it is really. If we'd rather just vote off the last black piecesand move in for the kill on the king I'm all for that too, but if people start buying into jackals lies and vote for me I'm not going to sit here and ignore it either.

I know how the mob rule works around here =)

[RendeR]

There are no other Knights left in the game besides Jackal.

Great. no way to find the last wolf after jackal them. GREAT....felgercarb....

[The Jackal]

I know everyone is going to pile on me today because of jackal's supposed scan.

I know he's lying, but I'm just a white bishop, I have nothing to back me up.

Unless another knight scanned me last night?? perhaps? Let us hope anyway.

Even so, I want to lynch jackal first. We lose nothing by testing his claim and we verify everything he's said in the process.

If I'm a wolf and he's right, I die tomorrow either way, BUT if *I* am right, and I am. We kill a wolf tonight we kill another black player tomorrow and the game is all but locked up.

Killing me first leads to the same loop, but wastes a VILLAGER white player
Where lynching JACKAL first gives us a wolf. Either way we're at a good place tomorrow.

Go my way and we're ahead of the game, go his way, it slows us down a day and wastes a white player.

Well, of course you want to lynch me first, it gives you an extra night kill. People can feel free to ask me any questions. I'm also working to try and find our last wolf. I moved forwards in the hope of scanning MC or PB (settled on MC), but there are no pawns in my sight line. I'll try again tonight.

[The Jackal]

dola

what I -assume- is our last wolf, if there are more than two wolves left we're in trouble.

[RendeR]

Well, of course you want to lynch me first, it gives you an extra night kill. People can feel free to ask me any questions. I'm also working to try and find our last wolf. I moved forwards in the hope of scanning MC or PB (settled on MC), but there are no pawns in my sight line. I'll try again tonight.


the night kills wil happen either way, you only get one a night and if I'm lynched you'll die tomorow and the last wolf will still get a shot.

The only thing killing you off first does is save 1 good white player. Killing me first wastes one letting you run loose one extra night.

[mccollins]

Well, of course you want to lynch me first, it gives you an extra night kill. People can feel free to ask me any questions. I'm also working to try and find our last wolf. I moved forwards in the hope of scanning MC or PB (settled on MC), but there are no pawns in my sight line. I'll try again tonight.

I welcome a scan at any chance you get.

[mccollins]

Can anyone see oliegirl (black Rook)? She should be on the C-file.

[jeheinz72]

Can anyone see oliegirl (black Rook)? She should be on the C-file.

Yes, I can see her. You're correct. C4.

[The Jackal]

the night kills wil happen either way, you only get one a night and if I'm lynched you'll die tomorow and the last wolf will still get a shot.

The only thing killing you off first does is save 1 good white player. Killing me first wastes one letting you run loose one extra night.

Listen, we have the same argument here. If we lynch the villager (me) tonight, then you get an extra night of kills by the end of the game, because it'll still take at least two lynches to get rid of the wolves (presuming there are 2 left, which I think we've pretty much all agreed upon is most likely). If we lynch you then there's only one wolf left and only one more lynch needed to eliminate the wolves.

Also, I'm sure this will be brought up at some point by someone - why haven't the wolves killed me yet? I really don't know. The only thing I can guess is that they've been on the ropes for a little while now and I've been a risky night target because I had to come out on day 1, and rooks may have been protecting me at night. If you have been, rooks, I thank you.

[RendeR]

Listen, we have the same argument here. If we lynch the villager (me) tonight, then you get an extra night of kills by the end of the game, because it'll still take at least two lynches to get rid of the wolves (presuming there are 2 left, which I think we've pretty much all agreed upon is most likely). If we lynch you then there's only one wolf left and only one more lynch needed to eliminate the wolves.

Also, I'm sure this will be brought up at some point by someone - why haven't the wolves killed me yet? I really don't know. The only thing I can guess is that they've been on the ropes for a little while now and I've been a risky night target because I had to come out on day 1, and rooks may have been protecting me at night. If you have been, rooks, I thank you.


Or far more simple and believable: You're a wolf.


See we don't know who the last wolf is so saying leaving me alive allows more night kills makes no sense. As long as any one wolf lives night kills can happen. I'm not trying to use that as the argment to lynch you. the night kills will occur either way, wether you're alive or dead.

Killing me firs leaves a villager white bishop alive, and eliminate a wolf white knight.

You're correct though, its your word against mine. I KNOW you're the wolf, because I know I am not one. You have far more support than I do, being a knight piece and being the on to make the first allegation. All I can do is state what I know and that is that you're lying about the scan.

The voters will decide.

[mccollins]

I don't think the wolves get a second chance on night kills if a Rook happens to pull of a successful bodyguard.

I just think it's good for the wolves to have us confused by you two.

FWIW, going back to the theory that the wolves are spread among the piece types, we have not had a Bishop wolf (RendeR), but we have had a Knight wolf (Anxiety).

[The Jackal]

The voters will decide.

Definitely, it's up to them. I'm kind of surprised you went straight for this route today though, considering it seemed like a lot of people were on board with cronin's plan of taking out SY then olie. Though trying to preserve olie at least another day makes sense from a wolf point of view, as they want to extend this game as much as possible.

[mccollins]

dola, I meant to quote this:
If you have been, rooks, I thank you.

[The Jackal]

[quote=mccollins;1726612]I don't think the wolves get a second chance on night kills if a Rook happens to pull of a successful bodyguard.[quote]

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest a rook had successfully blocked an attack against me, we'd know if something like that happened. Just saying if the rooks have been protecting me, I appreciate it.

[jeheinz72]

Those thoughts (the confusion and the piece type) fit for me. Frankly, were I forced to put money awhile back on the last two wolves it would've been a bishop (RendeR) and PB. He's acted fishy and being a pawn would fit.

I still don't know if we don't just lynch Olie though and decimate black. Or are you thinking that is overkill mccollins?

[The Jackal]

And I meant to not screw up your quote. Things happen. ;)

[The Jackal]

PB has been pretty quiet. But so has NTN, and hell, he's our king. Where's the leadership, man!

[Passacaglia]

All PMs have been sent out. Day 6 ends Tuesday 3 PM Eastern.

[jeheinz72]

I'm really curious why RendeR hasn't moved yet. How much is he helping us if he's kicking it on the back line?

[mccollins]

.. and PB. He's acted fishy and being a pawn would fit.


I have a list of reasons, but half the time he seems villager too. If PB is a wolf, he's played it VERY well in our PMs.

[PurdueBrad]

PB has been pretty quiet. But so has NTN, and hell, he's our king. Where's the leadership, man!

Yeah, sorry. I had a pretty big problem at school before my last hour class and I broke up a gang fight. I JUST got done with the police so my apologies, believe me (we'll talk post-game). But I haven't been able to be on until now, sorry.

[jeheinz72]

Oh geez, not the ol' "Broke up a gang fight and couldn't make it". Like that excuse hasn't been used to death! :eek: :D :eek:

[PurdueBrad]

Oh geez, not the ol' "Broke up a gang fight and couldn't make it". Like that excuse hasn't been used to death! :eek: :D :eek:

Yeah, exactly! I'm going to catch up now.

[PurdueBrad]

Alright, I'm kind of surprised Cronin went in all honesty. I figured that they would go after voting power, the other pawn or myself, especially with us taking out another four vote block. The fact that Cronin went makes me think that they realize his plan was probably the right plan.

vote Oliegirl

Although Mccollins, I agree, if she uses her powers for 'good', she could be helpful. I guess my question would be what is in it for her? Beating the wolves is always a good incentive though so maybe that'll do it.

[The Jackal]

Yeah, sorry. I had a pretty big problem at school before my last hour class and I broke up a gang fight. I JUST got done with the police so my apologies, believe me (we'll talk post-game). But I haven't been able to be on until now, sorry.

That's pretty badass whether you're a wolf or not. :)

[PurdueBrad]

That's pretty badass whether you're a wolf or not. :)

TY, thankfully I spent a year and a half as a bouncer in college as well as doing some ammy boxing. Makes those situations a little easier to handle.

[ntndeacon]

PB has been pretty quiet. But so has NTN, and hell, he's our king. Where's the leadership, man!

Sorry this game has come during exams and graduation. I turned in the grades a little while ago. In terms of what to do. ilike St. Cronin's plan

Vote Olie

This should leave Neon pretty defenseless and we should go in for the kill.

[mccollins]

I lean towards voting out a wolf.

Just throwin' that out there with the votes for oliegirl coming in.

[oliegirl]

I always vote for a wolf first and that has been my intention for most of this game...I figure if NC and I can stay alive, and get the wolves out, then maybe, by some miracle we might be able to pull off a win...

I'm not a wolf, and there is a some benefit to keeping me around, depending on what team you are on :)

[mccollins]

oliegirl, can you bodyguard the same person two nights in a row?

From the rules, it seems that you can.

[Narcizo]

First of all I'm sorry about cronin being offed. I think it's directly a result of my actions yesterday but if it's any consolation I believe it's benefited the white villager cause. We still have all our pawns (nearer to becoming Queens) and rooks

Heinz is right that OlieGirl is on C4. I know her ability is to block board attacks, which is no use to us and potential dangerous as she can easily block for Neon without running any risk of being captured herself. The only person it makes sense for her to use this power on is herself. She can't use it on Neon and she's no reason to want to protect white pieces from a board attack. The fact that she's moved to C4 suggests that she's planning on looking for NTN, rather than blocking for Neon, although she can easily double back to C8 or C7 and block for him there. I'm not saying this to say that we should vote to lynch OlieGirl, just providing the facts.

[Neon_Chaos]

This is interesting.

Narc, how do you know that that's her ability?

[Narcizo]

Anyway, I know none of you have any real reason to listen to me but I'll write my thoughts and hope that you'll pay attention to them now or should I be killed or lynched.

My first assumption http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/images/smilies/smile.gif is that there are two wolves left, or three wolves, one of which is OlieGirl. Anything else and we're pretty much screwed anyway. There's a chance that the wolves are OlieGirl and one of Jackal or Render but I think that's just wishful thinking at this stage. I think the evidence of the last two night kills points strongly to those wolves coming from The Jackal, Render and myself with PB a possibility. Heinz is a distant candidate while I'm 95% sure that mccollins is a villager and 99% sure that we can't really hope to win if he isn't.

Look at the choice of night kills the last two night.

Night 4 Qwikshot is killed
Now the wolves knew that Render was going to be scanned by Jackal that night and they knew that PB was going to be scanned by Qwikshot. When the board is already hugely unbalanced in favour of white, why would the wolves want to take out another black piece, albeit a knight. Particularly if there is the possibility that he is being guarded.

My first question is why Render didn't move away from Jackal if he knew he was going to be scanned by him, or night kill him. Maybe he was worried about Jackal being protected. Which means he should move away immediately and find an excuse for it. If Render is innocent then that makes sense, he was expecting the Jackal to confirm him as a villager. But then, on the other hand, why would the Jackal risk exposing himself claiming Render was a wolf at this stage of the game. We kill Render, find he's a villager and then turn on the Jackal right.

OK so another explanation is that either Render or Jackal is working with PB and they're trying to cover for him. I just have a hard time buying that though - I'd already provided a possible out for PB by questioning how much we could rely on a black piece seer outing a white wolf. If Render is the wolf, the better play is to protect himself by killing Jackal and then letting PB take his chances in an argument with Qwik. If Jackal is the wolf then it sort of makes sense that they kill Qwik and Jackal finds a scapegoat to cover for the death of Qwik. We lynch Render, lynch Jackal

I don't see any reason for a two-man wolf team including mccollins or Jeheinz (or myself for that matter) to expose one member in this way (whether it be Jackal lying or Render hanging around to be scanned). In fact I know that a wolf-team including heinz would believe that they could do a lot more damage elsewhere by letting Qwik live. He would kill me and let a post i intended to make after the deadline do a lot of damage to Qwik's credibility. As a black piece I think it would have been enough to justify a lynch on Qwik. Better play for him to look to kill elsewhere.

Of course there's a chance that Render intended to move away and just made a mistake or was blocked. My (imprecise) look at the map doesn't seem to back up the latter idea though. Or it could be that Jackal and Render are working together and Jackal would come up smelling of roses once Render is lynched.

Night 5: Cronin dies

In terms of controlling the board this makes no sense at all. As a bishop Cronin was probably one of the weakest pieces left in play. I maintain that if either of the pawns are wolves then their best of killing the other pawn or one of the rooks. If one of their pawns becomes a queen then they can easily block attacks for Neon. Sure it would out them (eventually), but in the case of mccollins it might not matter with his 4 votes, PB might still see the angle in it. I think Heinz would take his chances night killing through the pawns as well. Were I working with Render I might kill cronin to set up this post out of desperation. If Render and the Jackal are working together then they would be looking to vote Render today and either set up PB with a bogus scan tonight or try to lynch me, based on cronin's comment that he thought Render and I were wolves. I see the flurry of posting immediately after cronin's death as very indicative - can't help but feel that it all seems staged.

[Narcizo]

This is interesting.

Narc, how do you know that that's her ability?

Because I encountered it. Were it not her ability I would have captured her or, more likely, she would not have moved where she did in the first place.

[Neon_Chaos]

First of all I'm sorry about cronin being offed. I think it's directly a result of my actions yesterday but if it's any consolation I believe it's benefited the white villager cause. We still have all our pawns (nearer to becoming Queens) and rooks

Heinz is right that OlieGirl is on C4. I know her ability is to block board attacks, which is no use to us and potential dangerous as she can easily block for Neon without running any risk of being captured herself. The only person it makes sense for her to use this power on is herself. She can't use it on Neon and she's no reason to want to protect white pieces from a board attack. The fact that she's moved to C4 suggests that she's planning on looking for NTN, rather than blocking for Neon, although she can easily double back to C8 or C7 and block for him there. I'm not saying this to say that we should vote to lynch OlieGirl, just providing the facts.

The only way you'd know this is if hoopsguy, olie's rook partner, told you.

Wolf.

Vote Narcizo

[Narcizo]

If we lynch OlieGirl then it's difficult to assess our chances of grabbing Neon before the wolves pick us off, without knowing where he is. Both heinz and I can reach the 7th row today if we're not blocked by another white piece but we don't know if Neon is waiting there for us. My feelings are that we can probably win if neither of the pawns are wolves. Or we lose if one of them is. (although I think we might have a chance with PB as a wolf, and has to out himself to block a kill). If one of the rooks is a bad guy then I think we still have a chance, but not as good as if Render and Jackal are the wolves. Like I said it's difficult to tell our chances without knowing the situation.

If we go the lynch white pieces route, then I think we have to commit to it and not worry about OlieGirl. We have to rely on NTN avoiding her if she commits to an attack or we see her pull back to defend Neon. I think it's logical to lynch Render today, me or Jackal tomorrow and then me or Jackal the day after. I don't really think we're going to get much more reliable information than we currently have, other than board blocks by white pieces. If we go three days without a bodyguard block then we're only going to get a stalemate (at best). If we get a block then I think we get a win if we lynch both wolves in three days but we get a stalemate or a loss if we don't get them in that time. This means that if PB, heinz or mccollins is a wolf then we probably lose the game.

[Narcizo]

The only way you'd know this is if hoopsguy, olie's rook partner, told you.

Wolf.

Vote Narcizo

:D I thought you wanted to wolves to win rather than the white pieces Neon. If you really think I'm a wolf then you shouldn't be voting for me.

[Narcizo]

Heinz can confirm that my position is consistent with me bouncing off of OlieGirl. He can also confirm that I intended to move to C4.

[Narcizo]

Wow, guess Cronin's plan really hit close to home for some wolves....

VOTE THE JACKAL

He's a wolf, no other reason for him to lie about his scan.

Vote RendeR

If the majority of the team wants to lynch olie and continue to follow cronin's plan, that's fine, but RendeR is a wolf. Up to you guys.

You're correct though, its your word against mine. I KNOW you're the wolf, because I know I am not one. You have far more support than I do, being a knight piece and being the on to make the first allegation. All I can do is state what I know and that is that you're lying about the scan.

The voters will decide.

Definitely, it's up to them. I'm kind of surprised you went straight for this route today though, considering it seemed like a lot of people were on board with cronin's plan of taking out SY then olie. Though trying to preserve olie at least another day makes sense from a wolf point of view, as they want to extend this game as much as possible.

Rereading these posts just seem to scream out "Vote for one or the other of us and the other one (probably Render) will be cleared!"

[Narcizo]

I mean Render will be lynched and Jackal will be cleared.

I bet Jackal will then lead a lynch vote against me, which he will probably win especially when he clears mccollins to get his 4 votes. I have to say I'm pretty confused as to why Jackal was planning on scanning mccollins rather than PurdueBrad. Of the two PB seems like the better bet of being a wolf. I guess you could argue that mccollins has 4 votes so he's more powerful and should be checked first but I would have thought going for a likely wolf should be the priority at this stage.

[PurdueBrad]

For most of the game I decided that there had to be a pawn wolf, it would only make sense. But I do not believe that mccollins is a wolf and obviously, whether or not I was one, I would say here I'm not. I would like to point out that mccollins' voting record this game is strong, particularly back to day one with the Hoops vote. Also, he has proved to be incredibly valuable as a partner because I don't understand chess that well yet.

As for myself, I was originally on Hoops day one and pulled off of him because, as usual, I listened to him (something I need to stop doing). But I believe I embraced being scanned and even forewarned what was going to happen (and I don't mean in a KWhit way) AND I'm the one person that revealed board locations when St. Cronin asked for them. That's all I have defense-wise vs. being a wolf but I'm also not getting drawn into this discussion any further.

[mccollins]

Geez Narcizo, another book to read?! I'll catch up at lunch...

[KWhit]

For most of the game I decided that there had to be a pawn wolf, it would only make sense. But I do not believe that mccollins is a wolf and obviously, whether or not I was one, I would say here I'm not. I would like to point out that mccollins' voting record this game is strong, particularly back to day one with the Hoops vote. Also, he has proved to be incredibly valuable as a partner because I don't understand chess that well yet.

As for myself, I was originally on Hoops day one and pulled off of him because, as usual, I listened to him (something I need to stop doing). But I believe I embraced being scanned and even forewarned what was going to happen (and I don't mean in a KWhit way) AND I'm the one person that revealed board locations when St. Cronin asked for them. That's all I have defense-wise vs. being a wolf but I'm also not getting drawn into this discussion any further.

What do you mean by that? I'm not taking offense, I just don't follow what you're saying. I like to know what people mean when they talk about me.

:)

[mccollins]

Actually, Narcizo makes some sense rather than sounding like he's floundering to not be found out.

I think, however, the rules on moving dictated the bouncing off oliegirl not that she necessarily protected herself. Based on the moving/attacking rules, I think she got there earlier and Narcizo wasn't trying to move to the square by way of attack.

Pass told me that you can either choose to move or to attack, not both.

[mccollins]

Ok, more when I get to work.

[PurdueBrad]

What do you mean by that? I'm not taking offense, I just don't follow what you're saying. I like to know what people mean when they talk about me.

:)

KWhit, I just looked back because I knew that didn't sound right. I meant Anxiety. My bad!

[PurdueBrad]

For most of the game I decided that there had to be a pawn wolf, it would only make sense. But I do not believe that mccollins is a wolf and obviously, whether or not I was one, I would say here I'm not. I would like to point out that mccollins' voting record this game is strong, particularly back to day one with the Hoops vote. Also, he has proved to be incredibly valuable as a partner because I don't understand chess that well yet.

As for myself, I was originally on Hoops day one and pulled off of him because, as usual, I listened to him (something I need to stop doing). But I believe I embraced being scanned and even forewarned what was going to happen (and I don't mean in an Anxiety way) AND I'm the one person that revealed board locations when St. Cronin asked for them. That's all I have defense-wise vs. being a wolf but I'm also not getting drawn into this discussion any further.

Confused who was who, corrected here.

[PurdueBrad]

KWhit, I just looked back because I knew that didn't sound right. I meant Anxiety. My bad!

And I was referring to the way that Anxiety outlined his entire plan to us on day one and then followed through.

[KWhit]

KWhit, I just looked back because I knew that didn't sound right. I meant Anxiety. My bad!

Ah. I couldn't tell if you were complimenting me or criticizing me. I was very confused.

Makes sense now.

*goes back to being dead*

[jeheinz72]

I'm the one person that revealed board locations when St. Cronin asked for them. That's all I have defense-wise vs. being a wolf but I'm also not getting drawn into this discussion any further.

No offense PB, but the wolves would be pro-revealing locations. It gives them a road map on who might kill Neon first so they know who to night kill.

[jeheinz72]

I'm pretty sure Narc is correct, given my understanding of the board protect power (which I have). If he and olie tried to occupy the same spot but Olie did it first and was protected, Narc would bounce back a slot.

[Narcizo]

Actually, Narcizo makes some sense rather than sounding like he's floundering to not be found out.

I think, however, the rules on moving dictated the bouncing off oliegirl not that she necessarily protected herself. Based on the moving/attacking rules, I think she got there earlier and Narcizo wasn't trying to move to the square by way of attack.

Pass told me that you can either choose to move or to attack, not both.

I was told specifically that I thought I had captured a black rook but was unable to do so and had to retreat a square. Going on this I had no idea you had to specify that you have to attack or move.

Rooks: Tell me which direction you would like to move (North, South, East, West), and how many spaces you want to travel, from 1 to 8. You will stop when you reach your desired number of spaces. If an opposing piece is in the way, you will capture that piece and stop there -- that piece will be removed from the game. If a friendly or protected piece is in the way, you will stop right before that piece.

I presumed that she must be protecting herself with her rook power.

Anyway I'm sorry for the long posts again. But I get lonely here during the day. :) I have to go home now. I'll pop in during the evening to see if I need to change my move. But I'll put a vote in now.

I think Render and Jackal are both wolves but I realise that the last time I thought someone was a wolf I got it spectacularly wrong. I also realise that my posting over the last couple of days has been erratic. Anyway I believe our on-board position is stronger today than yesterday. I believe that both rooks getting up the board will prove to be important in bringing pressure on the king and we can't do that with OlieGirl positioned where she is. We also run the risk of retreating and blocking the top rows from the queens we are going to get next turn. We run the risk of white wolves doing that as well but if they do so then they will be outing themselves.

Vote OlieGirl

Subject to change. Possibly.

[hoopsguy]

As for myself, I was originally on Hoops day one and pulled off of him because, as usual, I listened to him (something I need to stop doing).

I strongly disagree. In fact, I would suggest that others need to start listening to me more in these games. Particularly people with weighted votes :)

OK - back to being dead.

[KWhit]

I strongly disagree. In fact, I would suggest that others need to start listening to me more in these games. Particularly people with weighted votes :)

OK - back to being dead.

I'll try to remember that in the future.

[oliegirl]

Yes, I am the rook who can protect again board moves...I rec'd information in my PM that the White Rook came at me but was not able to capture me. I'm not a wolf.

[The Jackal]

I'll work us up a vote count.

[The Jackal]

Oliegirl (3) - PurdueBrad (1533), ntndeacon (1536), Narcizo (1561)
The Jackal (1) - RendeR (1498)
RendeR (1) - The Jackal (1502)
Narcizo (1) - Neon_Chaos (1544)

not voted: jeheinz72, mccollins, oliegirl

[PurdueBrad]

Village, we're split around some. Knowing that Oliegirl can't night protect is important and also knowing that she can actually stop us from actually taking her on the board is also important, but is getting her voted off now more important than voting off a known (or possibly known) wolf?

I've been going back and forth here but I'm still thinking that voting her off is key to actually winning the game. Mccollins and Heinz, I'll be curious to hear both of your thoughts on this.

[Neon_Chaos]

Unvote Narcizo
Vote RendeR

[jeheinz72]

Village, we're split around some. Knowing that Oliegirl can't night protect is important and also knowing that she can actually stop us from actually taking her on the board is also important, but is getting her voted off now more important than voting off a known (or possibly known) wolf?

I've been going back and forth here but I'm still thinking that voting her off is key to actually winning the game. Mccollins and Heinz, I'll be curious to hear both of your thoughts on this.

Yeah, I just can't make up my mind. I've nearly voted either way (for olie or for who I think is a wolf of the two, RendeR) like 3-4 times now.

On one hand, the wolf isn't out to help us, and could get in our way. On the other, olie is certainly going to get in our way. We can realistically only lynch he as I can't see the wolves doing our job for us.

It's almost a complete toss-up for me.

[jeheinz72]

But by the same token, I think my inability to make a vote is that realistically, my vote is inconsequential. It is, for all intents and purposes, 4-2-1 right now. Figuring it'll be 5-2 when RendeR gets in. Basically if the olie voters stay and collins wants olie gone, she's gone.

[PurdueBrad]

I hate this time of year. Second fight in two days, luckily I got this one before it really got started, one hard smack to the back of the head was all they had time to get in. Man, kids can be dumb sometimes. I think these kids need to play werewolf, that should help with some of their aggression.

[The Jackal]

Transform aggression into words!

[The Jackal]

I'm out for a couple hours, btw. Be back before deadline. Then it's off to philly.

[jeheinz72]

I'm putting this in for now. I mainly don't want to forget. The topic is still very much open to me

Vote oliegirl

[PurdueBrad]

I'm out for a couple hours, btw. Be back before deadline. Then it's off to philly.

Jackal, I've saved this until now but you should probably vote me off:


<-------------------- HUGE Penguins fan.

[PurdueBrad]

Sorry, let me change that:

<------------------------HUGE Penguins fan enjoying a 2 games to 0 lead.

[PurdueBrad]

And if I'm night killed, you KNOW it was Jackal now!

[mccollins]

No offense PB, but the wolves would be pro-revealing locations. It gives them a road map on who might kill Neon first so they know who to night kill.

This was another reason I was dumbfounded that Cronin was a villager. I thought that was ridiculous to announce to the wolves where our pieces were so that they could intervene and block us.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I was frankly puzzled he really was good in the end.

[oliegirl]

Guys, what are the chances the Pass would set 2 wolves as PM partners??? Didn't we already go through this earlier in the game? I was Hoops PM partner, that is why I didn't vote for him the first night, I had no reason to believe he was a wolf and had no one else to trust or even get a read on, so I didn't vote for him...I promise you, I'm not a wolf.

[Neon_Chaos]

Guys, what are the chances the Pass would set 2 wolves as PM partners??? Didn't we already go through this earlier in the game? I was Hoops PM partner, that is why I didn't vote for him the first night, I had no reason to believe he was a wolf and had no one else to trust or even get a read on, so I didn't vote for him...I promise you, I'm not a wolf.

olie, they're no longer looking for wolves.

They just want to get rid of you in order to make their path to checking me easier.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, honestly Olie, Neon is right. For me (and the rest of the good white guys) it's a matter of clearing black out of the way vs. actually voting for wolves.

Now I'm pretty sure RendeR is a wolf. But I don't win the game by killing wolves, I win by mating Neon.

Can someone explain to me how voting RendeR is in my best interests right now?

[mccollins]

As stated earlier, I don't really want to vote olie today. Cronin was all about voting off black, I've always preferred to vote off wolves.

Reading back through RendeR and Jackal's verbal sparring, RendeR sounds like a person acting and Jackal sound like a person just trying to state what he knows.

I could be having the wool pulled over my eyes (or they could both be wolves, as mentioned), but this is what I planned to do at deadline yesterday until PurdueBrad wasn't able to show up because of the school fights (would've been perfect at 6-6 like I had discussed earlier in the day):

Vote RendeR

[jeheinz72]

Oliegirl (4) - PurdueBrad (1533), ntndeacon (1536), Narcizo (1561), jeheinz72 (1574)
The Jackal (1) - RendeR (1498)
RendeR (3) - The Jackal (1502), Neon (1568), mccollins (1583)

not voted: oliegirl

[jeheinz72]

so if what I know is true we've got basically 5 for Olie, 1 for Jackal and 6 for RendeR.

Presuming Olie votes RendeR and RendeR switches to Olie we're looking at 7-6 RendeR over Olie.

[PurdueBrad]

this is what I planned to do at deadline yesterday until PurdueBrad wasn't able to show up because of the school fights (would've been perfect at 6-6 like I had discussed earlier in the day)

This is why I apologized yesterday when I FINALLY was able to get on. Mccollins had the perfect plan in order to get both a wolf and black piece off the board at the same time. It's because of this that I will believe in Mccollins from now until the end of the game.

[oliegirl]

VOTE RENDER

Obvious vote to save my non-wolf butt :)

[jeheinz72]

Oliegirl (4) - PurdueBrad (1533), ntndeacon (1536), Narcizo (1561), jeheinz72 (1574)
The Jackal (1) - RendeR (1498)
RendeR (4) - The Jackal (1502), Neon (1568), mccollins (1583), oliegirl (1587)

My count puts it at 7-5-1, RendeR with the "most" votes.

[mccollins]

so if what I know is true we've got basically 5 for Olie, 1 for Jackal and 6 for RendeR.

Presuming Olie votes RendeR and RendeR switches to Olie we're looking at 7-6 RendeR over Olie.

I think you should be on around deadline. Just to be sure.

[Passacaglia]

Here's what I have, looks like it matches jeheinz72:

The Jackal -- RendeR (1498)
RendeR -- The Jackal (1502), Neon_Chaos (1568), mccollins (1583), oliegirl (1587)
oliegirl -- PurdueBrad (1533), ntndeacon (1536), Narcizo (1561), jeheinz72 (1574)
Narcizo --

[PurdueBrad]

I think you should be on around deadline. Just to be sure.

I'm going to try to be around as well, although the way things are going, who knows?

[jeheinz72]

I think you should be on around deadline. Just to be sure.

I'll be around. But I'm still not sure which way is most beneficial. Like I said before, with you controlling ~30% of the votes, it's like you get to pick. :D

[PurdueBrad]

Speaking of the plan we were going to try and pull off yesterday, anybody thought about voting no lynch and allowing us to pull off a tie today? With mccollins' votes and mine, I think we can balance things.

[PurdueBrad]

I assume Neon and Olie are locked and RendeR and wouldn't move
RendeR would have to vote Olie to avoid being the lone player voted off (If he's a wolf, he would still see value in taking Olie with him rather than a throw away on Jackal)
Leaving us to shift the rest of the votes

[Neon_Chaos]

Well, I certainly won't be voting No Lynch.

Good luck orchestrating that.

[jeheinz72]

I think people talking about orchastrating anything, be it openly or not are either wolves or people who are open to late vote shifting messing with things.

[PurdueBrad]

So it would be something like this:

Olie- RendeR, narcizo, mccollins (4)
RendeR- Neon, Olie, ntn, heinz, PB (2)

Jackal as a no lynch. Make sense or too hard? I'm thinking that in the vote movement we might be able to see another wolf.

[PurdueBrad]

I think people talking about orchastrating anything, be it openly or not are either wolves or people who are open to late vote shifting messing with things.

I am the second half of this, I am open to a late vote shift to see if we can get off both a black piece and a wolf, don't see the problem there. Worst case scenario, it doesn't go and we GET one of them off which is what is going to happen anyway.

[PurdueBrad]

BUT it also puts a lot of trust in whoever we would leave as a no lynch vote that they wouldn't come in and break the tie so I figure nobody would go for it on that matter alone but I saw value in discussing it.

[jeheinz72]

I am the second half of this, I am open to a late vote shift to see if we can get off both a black piece and a wolf, don't see the problem there. Worst case scenario, it doesn't go and we GET one of them off which is what is going to happen anyway.

No no no there Brad.

Sorry, I think you're looking REALLY suspicious following this line. If RendeR is a villager and you're a wolf you'd get quite the haul with this move, now wouldn't you?

[PurdueBrad]

Ummm, yeah, I would move white a whole hell of a lot closer to checkmate which would end the game for me if I was a wolf with a loss.

[jeheinz72]

Ummm, yeah, I would move white a whole hell of a lot closer to checkmate which would end the game for me if I was a wolf with a loss.

Yeah, if you'd let that actually happen.

I'm contending you wouldn't.

But that's neither here nor there, whether you're a wolf or not, I don't think it's in the villages best interest to let you or really anyone try and engineer the vote.

I mean WW is all about deceit basically right? Why telegraph our move like that? It'd be like trusting a friggin wolf. I know I"m not taking that chance.

[PurdueBrad]

No no no there Brad.

Sorry, I think you're looking REALLY suspicious following this line. If RendeR is a villager and you're a wolf you'd get quite the haul with this move, now wouldn't you?

By the way, not sure if you realized it, but as of now, RendeR is getting voted off anyway. So who is the suspicious looking one? Hell, I'm not even on RendeR right now, from the Chess game standpoint I'm where I feel that white can benefit the most and, I don't know, win.

[PurdueBrad]

Yeah, if you'd let that actually happen.

I'm contending you wouldn't.

But that's neither here nor there, whether you're a wolf or not, I don't think it's in the villages best interest to let you or really anyone try and engineer the vote.

I mean WW is all about deceit basically right? Why telegraph our move like that? It'd be like trusting a friggin wolf. I know I"m not taking that chance.


That's exactly what I'm daring us to do, MAKE somebody come out with a wolf move so we can pin the last remaining wolf (assuming there are four). IF we do dare them, the only play they can make would be to vote off either RendeR or Olie which is the position we're in now, but hey, to each their own. I figured two enemies (assuming RendeR is a wolf, although it doesn't matter as of now because it looks like he's going) were better than one, especially when "losing" this gamble still meant one of them got voted off. But hey, I'm cool with this too. I'm staying put and putting white's best interests ahead of the wolves' best interests (voting off a white piece), at least of these two choices.

[RendeR]

The only way we vote off a wolf today is if we vote off Jackal. If you lynch me you waste a white piece.

White should still win, but it will be harder, and if mccollins turns out furry, white and black are both fucked.

I don't think Olie is a wolf, but if we're not worried about voting off wolves then we have to vote off Olie.

If we wants a wolf, we have to vote Jackal.

I can't say it any clearer. Voting for me wastes a lynch entirely.

If enough people move to the point that my vote matters today I'l shift it, otherwise I might as well stick to my guns.

[jeheinz72]

RendeR - I asked this awhile ago, why haven't you moved at all?

[PurdueBrad]

RendeR - I asked this awhile ago, why haven't you moved at all?

Do you mean his vote or on the board?! I hadn't noticed that he hadn't moved on the board.

[jeheinz72]

By the way, not sure if you realized it, but as of now, RendeR is getting voted off anyway. So who is the suspicious looking one? Hell, I'm not even on RendeR right now, from the Chess game standpoint I'm where I feel that white can benefit the most and, I don't know, win.

I agree, I'm on olie as well

I just don't see why then we're letting the wolves possibly get to pick their poison, likely to their benefit

[PurdueBrad]

I see your last point, but I figured since we seem torn on one or the other that even if they "pick their poison", it still is one of the top two candidates and puts them in a tough position: sacrifice one of their own or get rid of the last non-king black piece. But I will digress in that their could be an advantage in allowing them to make that choice. I just figured it might also out them by making that move though.

[jeheinz72]

Do you mean his vote or on the board?! I hadn't noticed that he hadn't moved on the board.

On the board. From where I am I can still see back there and he is still in starting position. He hasn't moved yet, I've been in range of that spot I think every turn (I'd have to double check, but memory serves that he hasn't moved).

[PurdueBrad]

I see your last point, but I figured since we seem torn on one or the other that even if they "pick their poison", it still is one of the top two candidates and puts them in a tough position: sacrifice one of their own or get rid of the last non-king black piece. But I will digress in that there could be an advantage in allowing them to make that choice. I just figured it might also out them by making that move though.

grammar error

[PurdueBrad]

On the board. From where I am I can still see back there and he is still in starting position. He hasn't moved yet, I've been in range of that spot I think every turn (I'd have to double check, but memory serves that he hasn't moved).

Alright, that is odd.

[jeheinz72]

I see your last point, but I figured since we seem torn on one or the other that even if they "pick their poison", it still is one of the top two candidates and puts them in a tough position: sacrifice one of their own or get rid of the last non-king black piece. But I will digress in that their could be an advantage in allowing them to make that choice. I just figured it might also out them by making that move though.

I think your intentions *may* be good, but I think it just is too risky. Slow and steady wins this race, IMO.

[RendeR]

RendeR - I asked this awhile ago, why haven't you moved at all?


because I only know a small portion of the board (piece positions)

I am waiting for everyone to say "ok let's mate the king" and figure out where we need to be so I can assist. Telle me where you want me to be and I'll move there. Otherwise I'll stay where I am and watch out for people trying to take me off the board (which won't hapen now that Olie is the onl black piece that is left that can threaten us)

I've made no bones about the fact that I've stayed put with the intent of mating the king since my movement bloks multiple spaces for him to escape to.

Prolem is everyone is still squabling over wolves and the wolves have ledthat charge (Jackal) to keep us from getting this game won. we've been hashing it over for days now, lets not waste another day, lets either lynch olie and end the threat from black altogether or lych Jackal and leave only 1 wolf able to do much of anything *aka nothing* while we plot the moves we need to make to end this in a white victory.

[jeheinz72]

because I only know a small portion of the board (piece positions)

I am waiting for everyone to say "ok let's mate the king" and figure out where we need to be so I can assist. Telle me where you want me to be and I'll move there. Otherwise I'll stay where I am and watch out for people trying to take me off the board (which won't hapen now that Olie is the onl black piece that is left that can threaten us)

I've made no bones about the fact that I've stayed put with the intent of mating the king since my movement bloks multiple spaces for him to escape to.

Prolem is everyone is still squabling over wolves and the wolves have ledthat charge (Jackal) to keep us from getting this game won. we've been hashing it over for days now, lets not waste another day, lets either lynch olie and end the threat from black altogether or lych Jackal and leave only 1 wolf able to do much of anything *aka nothing* while we plot the moves we need to make to end this in a white victory.

But you aren't even defending OUR king. That's my big problem. You're farther back from the black end than even he is. I mean don't you think it would be smart to at least get yourself in position for our attack?

[PurdueBrad]

I really wish these posts counted. But hey, at least I got out of noob status finally, even if mascot might be only a slight promotion.

[mccollins]

PB, I think Jackal is the only one who can help facilitate that idea. I was wondering if it would work as well, but it would be hard to pull off.

[PurdueBrad]

But you aren't even defending OUR king. That's my big problem. You're farther back from the black end than even he is. I mean don't you think it would be smart to at least get yourself in position for our attack?

Speaking of our attack, aren't we basically going to have to box in their king in order to take him or get lucky and guess where he moves to since we won't actually "see" him? Is the attack going to be a literal shot in the dark? Just curious because I'm trying to figure out how this will work.

[The Jackal]

PB, I think Jackal is the only one who can help facilitate that idea. I was wondering if it would work as well, but it would be hard to pull off.

If you remember a couple days back when cronin went on his "lets eliminate black ruthlessly" push, I suggested to him that we try and lynch both a wolf and a black player, so I was considering that plan, but I think the wolves can still mess with it too easily.

[PurdueBrad]

PB, I think Jackal is the only one who can help facilitate that idea. I was wondering if it would work as well, but it would be hard to pull off.

Yeah, it would take Jackal, you, and me basically plus RendeR getting off Jackal and trying to take Oliegirl with him. But it sounds like siding with me on this could be a toxic decision so I don't know if Jackal, your, or RendeR (basically a self-sacrifice) would even be up for it.

[jeheinz72]

Speaking of our attack, aren't we basically going to have to box in their king in order to take him or get lucky and guess where he moves to since we won't actually "see" him? Is the attack going to be a literal shot in the dark? Just curious because I'm trying to figure out how this will work.

Well, if all goes according to plan we should have people who can see him soon.

[Passacaglia]

I really wish these posts counted. But hey, at least I got out of noob status finally, even if mascot might be only a slight promotion.

Especially since you have more posts in this thread than in the non-WW parts of the forum.

[PurdueBrad]

Well, if all goes according to plan we should have people who can see him soon.

The pawns can see him now, the problem is that we can only see him at the end of a turn and if he moves at the beginning of the next turn, we've got to guess where he's gone. That's the thing, unless we box him in, it's almost like dart throwing. There's nothing we can really do about it, just thinking ahead.

[PurdueBrad]

Especially since you have more posts in this thread than in the non-WW parts of the forum.

Yeah, I'm apparently testing the theory that he who posts the most, dies next.

[jeheinz72]

The pawns can see him now, the problem is that we can only see him at the end of a turn and if he moves at the beginning of the next turn, we've got to guess where he's gone. That's the thing, unless we box him in, it's almost like dart throwing. There's nothing we can really do about it, just thinking ahead.

True, you guys can see him now. I think you'll find it'll be easier than throwing darts for us though.

[PurdueBrad]

That works, I was just curious. Out of curiousity, because I'm learning chess along with this game. I understand the most powerful chess pieces. What are the most powerful pieces this game?

[PurdueBrad]

In other words, and I'm clueless here, can my pawn take out a black piece?

[jeheinz72]

That works, I was just curious. Out of curiousity, because I'm learning chess along with this game. I understand the most powerful chess pieces. What are the most powerful pieces this game?

Well, for us to get Neon, it's a Queen. Failing that though, us rooks are nice.

As far as the game and voting though, I"d say pawns since you guys vote(d) as a 4-vote block.

[jeheinz72]

In other words, and I'm clueless here, can my pawn take out a black piece?

Yeah, but it's hard/unlikely.

[PurdueBrad]

Yeah, pawns are basically fodder in a regular chess game, correct?

[PurdueBrad]

I'm getting ready to switch classes, be back momentarily (HOPEFULLY!).

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, pawns are basically fodder in a regular chess game, correct?

Wait, so your partner didn't help clue you in on how to take black pieces? Or just had you taking pawns?

You can take ANY piece man. Granted it has to line up right for you, that's the hard part, but yeah man, if Olie is diagonally in front of you, TAKE HER. I don't think she is though.

I'm curious why your partner wouldn't fill you in on that.

[Neon_Chaos]

That works, I was just curious. Out of curiousity, because I'm learning chess along with this game. I understand the most powerful chess pieces. What are the most powerful pieces this game?

The Queen. Which White killed out of greediness.

We could have kept on voting no lynch, let the wolves flounder to try and keep up with the chess game using their one player per night kills... but no, everyone wanted to play werewolf and start killing everyone off to help the wolves.

Those who didn't want the no lynch vote from the start of the game either didn't understand the rules and winning conditions for the chess pieces or were wolves.

[PurdueBrad]

I never got the opportunity to take anything. The one day I could've was the day that Qwikshot and I truced up with each other.

My partner has been very thorough with info, it never dawned on me that, for instance, as a pawn I *could* take a King for instance.

[jeheinz72]

The Queen. Which White killed out of greediness.

We could have kept on voting no lynch, let the wolves flounder to try and keep up with the chess game using their one player per night kills... but no, everyone wanted to play werewolf and start killing everyone off to help the wolves.

Those who didn't want the no lynch vote from the start of the game either didn't understand the rules and winning conditions for the chess pieces or were wolves.

No offense Neon, but given where we stand now, can you blame us? I expect we'll mate you soon here. Or I'd hope we do. You can't really hold taking that opportunity against us, especially since you were the one who told us CR was the Black Queen.

If it was opposite and NTN mentioned path was the white queen, would you be all that dismayed/surprised if your black bretheren had done the same, even if you didn't?

[jeheinz72]

I never got the opportunity to take anything. The one day I could've was the day that Qwikshot and I truced up with each other.

My partner has been very thorough with info, it never dawned on me that, for instance, as a pawn I *could* take a King for instance.

I have to admit it sticks in my craw for now, but ATM I trust your partner. I just wonder as someone who I know plays chess why he wouldn't tell you that.

But that's not for today's discussion, I feel it's just my pure paranoia :D

[mccollins]

Good rook(s): Hook me up with a bodyguard if you can!
Knowing the type of Rook bodyguards (over the board vs. protect from wolves), I think Narcizo is my only hope.

[Neon_Chaos]

No offense Neon, but given where we stand now, can you blame us? I expect we'll mate you soon here. Or I'd hope we do. You can't really hold taking that opportunity against us, especially since you were the one who told us CR was the Black Queen.

If it was opposite and NTN mentioned path was the white queen, would you be all that dismayed/surprised if your black bretheren had done the same, even if you didn't?

HAHAHAHA.

You will lose.

[jeheinz72]

Good rook(s): Hook me up with a bodyguard if you can!
Knowing the type of Rook bodyguards (over the board vs. protect from wolves), I think Narcizo is my only hope.

Yeah, I don't think I'm of any use to you.

[jeheinz72]

HAHAHAHA.

You will lose.

Nice non-denial. :D

[mccollins]

I feel it's just my pure paranoia :D

It is ;)
He knew we can take pieces because I had the opportunity to take a black knight-seer early in the game and he strongly encouraged me to do so.

I think the confusion was whether pawns can take a King because in real chess, they don't usually get the opportunity since the King isn't usually "taken" but instead is checkmated.

[Neon_Chaos]

Nice non-denial. :D

Just remember, White called my bluff. White will lose.

[jeheinz72]

It is ;)
He knew we can take pieces because I had the opportunity to take a black knight-seer early in the game and he strongly encouraged me to do so.

I think the confusion was whether pawns can take a King because in real chess, they don't usually get the opportunity since the King isn't usually "taken" but instead is checkmated.

True. A pawn kill of anything but a pawn is pretty rare (or a gigantic mistake on the killed person's behalf! :D )

[jeheinz72]

Just remember, White called my bluff. White will lose.

Then there must be something to this game that I'm just not understanding/knowing.

[PurdueBrad]

What's the difference between taking the king and checkmating? I guess this is where my confusion lies. Although Heinz, I was really after a different kind of information here. Now that we're past deadline, I was trying to get advice on what to become IF my pawns reach the end of the board.

[Passacaglia]

Corrections, please:

The Jackal -- RendeR (1498)
RendeR -- The Jackal (1502), Neon_Chaos (1568), mccollins (1583), oliegirl (1587)
oliegirl -- PurdueBrad (1533), ntndeacon (1536), Narcizo (1561), jeheinz72 (1574)
Narcizo --

[mccollins]

I guess that's deadline.

Jackal if you had switched to oliegirl we would have lynched them both.

[jeheinz72]

What's the difference between taking the king and checkmating? I guess this is where my confusion lies. Although Heinz, I was really after a different kind of information here. Now that we're past deadline, I was trying to get advice on what to become IF my pawns reach the end of the board.

I know you were, that was the advice I was giving. :)

I'm hoping you wisely chose to get Queened :D

[PurdueBrad]

Darn Flyers fan!

[Neon_Chaos]

Then there must be something to this game that I'm just not understanding/knowing.

:)

[jeheinz72]

looks right Pass

[Passacaglia]

After most of White seems content with its political campaign against Black for the time being, the pieces decide to re-focus on the wolf problem. While a sizable contingent still argues for oliegirl to go, the majority look at RendeR and point to the gallows. RendeR looks down, sighs, and accepts his fate. RendeR was a White Bishop and a villager! The night passes again with not much to speak of, but you awake to find that mccollins has not joined you. mccollins controlled four White Pawns!

[jeheinz72]

GAH!

[jeheinz72]

GAH!

[hoopsguy]

RendeR was a villager? GAH indeed!

[jeheinz72]

RendeR was a villager? GAH indeed!

Shush dead wolf boy!

[KWhit]

gAH!

[Narcizo]

I screwed up guys. Sorry.

[mccollins]

:)

If you're able to PM with wolves, this game is jacked up. I hope you're referring to something else.

[Neon_Chaos]

Boom.

One time offer to the White King,

You still think you can win?

Our best shot at this is a stalemate.

Time is a ticking.

Holler back if you want to work out a deal to try and weed out the wolves. It's simple really. Let's not have this game put in the hands of the wolves via the vote. Everyone votes for you today, and you get to pick who you want to lynch... that way, no surprises, and 100% responsibility on your shoulders. Tomorrow, everyone votes for me, and same thing.

The game is placed in the hands of the two pieces that cannot die.

One time offer on the table, yes or no. :)

[jeheinz72]

I implore people to start thinking black/white though instead of wolves/village.

With that said though, I'm pretty sure I know who Jackal's comrade is. It's my partner, Narcizo. I implored him in private to protect mccollins, since collins was our ace in the hole about-to-be-queened.

So what happenes, Collins dies. Wolf wolf wolf.

[jeheinz72]

Boom.

One time offer to the White King,

You still think you can win?

Our best shot at this is a stalemate.

Time is a ticking.

Holler back if you want to work out a deal to try and weed out the wolves. It's simple really. Let's not have this game put in the hands of the wolves via the vote. Everyone votes for you today, and you get to pick who you want to lynch... that way, no surprises, and 100% responsibility on your shoulders. Tomorrow, everyone votes for me, and same thing.

The game is placed in the hands of the two pieces that cannot die.

One time offer on the table, yes or no. :)

Ha, says the guy who I've lined up for the kill.

Granted, I *thought* I had help here, but my partner next to you I don't think is on my side anymore.

[The Jackal]

The longer you leave olie alive, the less chance you have of winning.

[jeheinz72]

The longer you leave olie alive, the less chance you have of winning.

Argh. Shove it wolf boy. That's enough outta you.

[jeheinz72]

NTN - Don't be a sucker and take Neon's idea.

[Neon_Chaos]

Ha, says the guy who I've lined up for the kill.

Granted, I *thought* I had help here, but my partner next to you I don't think is on my side anymore.

Catch me if you can. :cool:

[Passacaglia]

All PMs have been sent out. I'm going to make a deadline of 12 PM tomorrow for Day 7.

[Neon_Chaos]

NTN - Don't be a sucker and take Neon's idea.

Don't be a menace in south central while drinking your juice in the hood.

[Passacaglia]

Don't be a menace in south central while drinking your juice in the hood.

Awesome movie, and I'm tempted to just end the game now and say Black wins just because you mentioned it, but I might as well let it play out fairly.

[jeheinz72]

Catch me if you can. :cool:

I'll get you my pretty!

PB - Did you get your pawns to the end and get new pieces?

[Passacaglia]

Awesome movie, and I'm tempted to just end the game now and say Black wins just because you mentioned it, but I might as well let it play out fairly.

I mean, whatever team you're on. :eek:

[Narcizo]

Vote Jackal

He says Render was a wolf. Render wasn't a wolf. Ergo - Jackal is a wolf.

[jeheinz72]

Argh. NTN and PB I need your thoughts here. We know a wolf, we know we need to remove olie.

[RendeR]

Nobody EVER listens to me.

Someday you MIGHT want to try it.

[PurdueBrad]

I implore people to start thinking black/white though instead of wolves/village.

With that said though, I'm pretty sure I know who Jackal's comrade is. It's my partner, Narcizo. I implored him in private to protect mccollins, since collins was our ace in the hole about-to-be-queened.

So what happenes, Collins dies. Wolf wolf wolf.

I haven't caught completely up but we have to go white-black and try to get the king.

[jeheinz72]

I haven't caught completely up but we have to go white-black and try to get the king.

We've got a King and a Rook (black) against a King, 2 rooks, 1 knight and whatever you convert into. Additionally the knight isn't going to help us and my guess is Narcizo is the 4th wolf and he won't help us. So basically it's me and you hunting down Neon while Olie tries to get NTN.

Can you see Olie's location from your spot?

NTN, can you?

If she's a bit away we might want to get Jackal or Narcizo. They could actually get in our way and impede our progress. For instance Narc is right near me, it's very possible he'll put himself between me and Neon and effectively be a black member anyhow. Ditto Jackal who I have no idea where he is on the board.

[PurdueBrad]

Argh. NTN and PB I need your thoughts here. We know a wolf, we know we need to remove olie.

I'm gettin ready to leave but I'm tempted to go for the wolves so that we can get their votes off the board and try to get the king on the board. BUT oliegirl can protect him on the board. I think we're in a good bit of trouble here. I'll put up something longer later after I've thought about it.

[jeheinz72]

I'm gettin ready to leave but I'm tempted to go for the wolves so that we can get their votes off the board and try to get the king on the board. BUT oliegirl can protect him on the board. I think we're in a good bit of trouble here. I'll put up something longer later after I've thought about it.

Olie can't protect Neon. She and I have the same power and let's just say I stupidly tried that earlier. ;)

[PurdueBrad]

We've got a King and a Rook (black) against a King, 2 rooks, 1 knight and whatever you convert into. Additionally the knight isn't going to help us and my guess is Narcizo is the 4th wolf and he won't help us. So basically it's me and you hunting down Neon while Olie tries to get NTN.

Can you see Olie's location from your spot?

NTN, can you?

If she's a bit away we might want to get Jackal or Narcizo. They could actually get in our way and impede our progress. For instance Narc is right near me, it's very possible he'll put himself between me and Neon and effectively be a black member anyhow. Ditto Jackal who I have no idea where he is on the board.

Believe it or not, I don't see anybody black. I'm hoping to see Neon after he moves in the next turn and will scan his location with my pawn. We'll see. I do see both white rooks: B7 and D6 but that's it.

[jeheinz72]

Believe it or not, I don't see anybody black. I'm hoping to see Neon after he moves in the next turn and will scan his location with my pawn. We'll see. I do see both white rooks: B7 and D6 but that's it.

Ok cool, if you have a queen then, I think we've got a shot at taking this just you and I.

That begs the question though. Narcizo is the player most in our way possibly. He could actually flip the script and defend Neon in hopes of delaying us and Jackal could be down by NTN defending him against Olie.

I'm almost certain Narcizo is the 4th wolf (more on that later), we could take him out now leaving us unimpeded to swipe at Neon while Jackal presumably fends off Olie for us. He doesn't want to see NTN die any more than we do.

[PurdueBrad]

I would rather get the confirmed wolf, Jackal, and go from there. I'm either voting Jackal or Olliegirl and am more likely to vote Jackal I think.

[jeheinz72]

Regarding Narcizo's wolfiness:

- Voted KWhit instead of hoops on Day one, albeit I made the same mistake, so I can't really hold this against him

- He actually suggested in PM to me when Anxiety was outed that Qwik and Cronin were wolves 3 and 4. He alluded to this a few pages back. Kinda strange he'd mention those two given they were the next two night kills after Qwik caught Anxiety.

- The whole debacle on his ability to protect against wolf attack, yet the ONE player we MOST should have protected, who he TOLD me he was protecting ends up dying. That alone sealed it for me. I've been back-and-forth on him all game, hesitant to even share my board position with him, but when he did this, it cemented it in my mind.


I'm not 100% sure taking him out first makes the most sense, but I'm pretty sure his and Jackal's plan once White had the major advantage was to split up and defend the kings manually. Hence Jackal stays near NTN and Narc makes his move up the left towards Neon. My guess is now he'll get in the way or our snipes at Neon.

Of course, I could be all wrong here, but for me it boils down to the fact that either him, you or Olie are the last wolf and I can't imagine it's olie and you've been slightly (very slightly) less wolfy than he has.

[jeheinz72]

I would rather get the confirmed wolf, Jackal, and go from there. I'm either voting Jackal or Olliegirl and am more likely to vote Jackal I think.

Fair enough. Like I said, I'm trusting you more than him at the moment. I'll put this in now and think on it overnight

Vote The Jackal

[PurdueBrad]

Heinz, RendeR and Jackal each claimed each other as wolves, right? That means one of them has to be a wolf. Am I recalling this correctly?

Current vote:

vote the Jackal

[jeheinz72]

Heinz, RendeR and Jackal each claimed each other as wolves, right? That means one of them has to be a wolf. Am I recalling this correctly?

Current vote:

vote the Jackal

Yeah, you have it right. Don't get me wrong, Jackal has got to be 100% wolf. I was just trying to think a step ahead.

[PurdueBrad]

No, I agree but we were so sure about RendeR, let's just get the one we now know and lay off of olliegirl for now.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah, prolly right

I'm outta here until tomorrow AM, peace out homies.

[Neon_Chaos]

I am loving all this strategy talk. :)

[PurdueBrad]

I am loving all this strategy talk. :)

Hi Neon,

Ahhh, at least somebody is enjoying it. Although I'm sure the wolves are too since they had us running in circles yesterday. Maybe we can do better today. Of course, it is in all of our best interest to dump one wolf, after that, things get interesting. Although I'm doubting that I'm allowed to live through the rest of today.

[Neon_Chaos]

Hi Neon,

Ahhh, at least somebody is enjoying it. Although I'm sure the wolves are too since they had us running in circles yesterday. Maybe we can do better today. Of course, it is in all of our best interest to dump one wolf, after that, things get interesting. Although I'm doubting that I'm allowed to live through the rest of today.

Keep an eye on jeheinz. :)

He still thinks that White can slam dunk this, when it's clear that the Wolves are creeping ever so closer to a win.

Come to think of it, I haven't heard back from ntn regarding my one-time offer on the table.

[PurdueBrad]

I agree with you Neon, we're all (white, black, and villager) in precarious situations.

7 players left: 5 white (2 wolves likely, 3 non-wolves), 2 black

Assuming we lynch the wolf and they night kill a white piece (I'm thinking me), we're at 3 white (1 wolf), 2 black. Then I would MUCH rather see the remaining pieces get that last wolf and play chess the rest of the way.

[Narcizo]

I'm afraid I've been very confused by the course of today's events and this has put me off. I screwed up protecting mccollins because I thought that I was going to be targeted because I'm paranoid. I also gave heinz every reason to believe that I'm a wolf in a couple of PMs and understand that (if he's a villager) he thinks I'm a wolf. I shall do my best to capture the king but realise that no-one is going to listen to me.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm afraid I've been very confused by the course of today's events and this has put me off. I screwed up protecting mccollins because I thought that I was going to be targeted because I'm paranoid. I also gave heinz every reason to believe that I'm a wolf in a couple of PMs and understand that (if he's a villager) he thinks I'm a wolf. I shall do my best to capture the king but realise that no-one is going to listen to me.

Narcizo, I have not written you off yet, I'm still deciding who the other wolf is. Focusing now on getting the one wolf we do know would probably be a big point in your favor though.

[jeheinz72]

Looks like not much overnight.

Narc, I got your PM. If you're a villager in this mess, not only would I be shocked but the non-block on Collins cost us the game. We would've had Collins and PB on row 8, you on 7 and me on 6. It woulda been Crocodile DoneDeal there my friend. Once the two pawn guys (just one of them really) get queened we had/have Neon mated.

Now it's me on 6 and just PB on 8 (who I think is the other villager). Neon can use that gap in the middle.

PB, if you got queened, I need to know. It'll greatly impact my next move as we head for Neon.

[Passacaglia]

Just another reminder that deadline is 12 PM Eastern today -- in less than two hours.

[Passacaglia]

Vote count:

The Jackal -- Narcizo (1672), jeheinz72 (1683), PurdueBrad (1684)

[Neon_Chaos]

Vote jeheinz72

[jeheinz72]

Vote jeheinz72

??

Here I am man voting out a white piece and you're voting for me? Huh?

[PurdueBrad]

??

Here I am man voting out a white piece and you're voting for me? Huh?

I think he's more threatened by your position on the board, which might be a clue that we should stop talking board positioning for a while (which is my fault since I discussed mine earlier as well).

[jeheinz72]

I think he's more threatened by your position on the board, which might be a clue that we should stop talking board positioning for a while (which is my fault since I discussed mine earlier as well).

True, that makes sense. Though he can see me, easily, so it can't hurt me. Plus, he can't kill me on the board.

Anyhow, PB, did you queen one of your pawns?

[The Jackal]

vote the jackal

[The Jackal]

And I don't like you very much right now, PB. ;)

[mccollins]

vote the jackal

Well, that's a new one for me.

[jeheinz72]

What, no, "incorrect scan" lame-ass defense? I'm disappointed Jackal.

[The Jackal]

What, no, "incorrect scan" lame-ass defense? I'm disappointed Jackal.

Uh, sorry to disappoint you. :)

[jeheinz72]

Wow, it's like almost deadline, isn't it?

[Passacaglia]

Wow, it's like almost deadline, isn't it?

Yep..the crazy shenanigans should be coming any minute now!

[The Jackal]

Yep..the crazy shenanigans should be coming any minute now!

Pass, quick, give me special voting powers!

[Passacaglia]

Pass, quick, give me special voting powers!

I give you the power to stop being a dumbass who votes for himself!

[The Jackal]

I give you the power to stop being a dumbass who votes for himself!

Damnit, I read this after the deadline. Any vote switch wouldn't count. :(

[PurdueBrad]

Deadline

Dead, like the Flyers...
Line, like line-up to shake hands 'cause this series is almost over baby!

Sorry Jackal.

[Passacaglia]

Vote count:

The Jackal -- Narcizo (1672), jeheinz72 (1683), PurdueBrad (1684), The Jackal (1701)
jeheinz72 -- Neon_Chaos (1697)

[The Jackal]

Deadline

Dead, like the Flyers...
Line, like line-up to shake hands 'cause this series is almost over baby!

Sorry Jackal.

It's all good, I'm pleased they made it this far, and without Timonen/Coburn and realistically Gagne, they dont have much chance of beating the Pens the way they are playing.

[PurdueBrad]

Actually, to be honest, I'm excited to see the Pens this far after last year's debacle. As for the Flyers, they have impressed me all the way through and, if it weren't the Penguins, I would probably be rooting for your Flyers.

[Passacaglia]

At this point, the pieces are sure that The Jackal is actually The Wolf, and y'all are ready for one of the happiest lynchings so far. The Jackal the howls as his the body is hung. The Jackal was a White Knight and a wolf! Another quiet night, some screams of "Get back here" are heard, but nothing alarming. You wake up to find that oliegirl is missing. oliegirl was a Black Rook!

[oliegirl]

Crap - I didn't get a vote in, though I did get my "night action" in earlier...got slammed at work and totally forgot about the noon deadline. Sorry!!!! :(

[PurdueBrad]

WOW, now that is an interesting move by the wolf (assuming one).

[jeheinz72]

So who the heck is left?

Me, PB, Narc, Neon and NTN?

[PurdueBrad]

Yeah, on black it is just Neon, on white it is NTN, Narc, Heinz, and PB.

1 wolf out there still, 2 kings, and 2 non-king, non-wolf pieces.

[Passacaglia]

All PMs have been sent out. I'm going to stick with the 12 PM deadline for tomorrow, Day 8.

[jeheinz72]

Then this is pretty easy for me.

PB or Narc.

I thought you did some wolfy things early on PB but so did I un screwing up my Day One vote (though you did that too) it's pittance compared to Narc's laundry list of offenses.

There's no excuse for not protecting collins 2 nights ago. He even said he would to me. Additionally, if he is really a wolf protecting bodyguard (who actually WANTS to protect from wolves) I can't see going 0-for-7 at this point. You'd think we'd get 1 protection at some point.

Vote Narcizo

I'll listen to his case, but I can't see where he's not the last wolf. If I have to pay off PB because Narc screwed this game as a villager, then so be it.

[Narcizo]

I agree that my record has been poor. While most of the attacks have been hard to judge the kill on mccollins was terrible from the white villager viewpoint and I can only say that I made a mistake. Which isn't the most impressive defence.

I would say that the choice of killing OlieGirl would be terrible for me as a wolf, while it would be excellent for a wolf trying to get me, as the easiest target, lynched.

Given my own record I think it would be pointless commenting on PB or Heinz's records. As Heinz points out there was some suspicion about PB's activities but they are pretty poor compared with the lack of block of mccollins.

So, as a villager, myIf we're going to have a lynch vote then I think we might get some information if the three wolf candidates revealed their board positions. This might allow us to judge whether a person moved in a fashion likely to take the black king. There will be no strategic advantage in this if we vote to lynch someone (probably me, based on my record, I admit) as either that person is the wolf or they aren't and the wolf wins. Heinz, as you want to lynch me do you mind saying where you are? I agree that when there is distrust about me we need to lynch someone today (even though it's likely to be me and with me dying the wolves win) so I'm willing to provide mine. I was the rook at B7 and landed at E7, moving phase 2. I can see some pieces around. My hope was that Neon might think I was the wolf and hope that I wouldn't try to attack him. Or that he would try to attack your rook at C6 on phase 1 and bounce as you would be protecting yourself.

[PurdueBrad]

I'm not giving up my position but I will give up some piece information given that if we don't get a wolf in the next lynch, the night kill won't really matter.

I am double-queened.

[jeheinz72]

I'm about to go get my haircut and lunch. Let me decipher if I think giving away board position is truly in the villages best interests. I mean realistically I've only got one more whack at Neon, if I even have that whack.

Asking for my positioning now opens it up, whether you or PB are the final wolf, to blocking me. Additionally, it aids Neon in his escape.

I'm not 100% sure that it's a great idea frankly. Smells of end game, but I'll think on it over the next hour.

[Narcizo]

I OK giving my information away because Neon knows where I am anyway.

[jeheinz72]

PB, NICE!

Quick question for you, which I don't think gives away too much. Are your queens in the same row? If not, we may have a chance at this yet.

I understand if you want to maintain being mum about it, but I know you aren't too keen at chess IIRC, and if they're in separate rows, we can secure the win I believe.

[Narcizo]

And if you are set on lynching me (as it seems you were) then it is end game.

[jeheinz72]

And if you are set on lynching me (as it seems you were) then it is end game.

Well, if you were in my shoes, wouldn't you be? I mean you know the convo's we've had. You know the wild theories you've thrown out, you know how the collins mess went down, just like I did. Can ya blame me?

I mean I'll admit (probably foolishly) that this sliver of me wants to think you're just a villager like me and you/we wasted a good opportunity, but frankly, that alone isn't going to change my vote.

I'd love to see your case against PB, and see how it matches up with what I have.

[Narcizo]

Yes I have agreed that my record is poor. However I believe the board positions have the possibility of providing us with the information we need to find the wolf. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think the wolf would take the chance of capturing Neon, while a villager would make an attempt to capture him.

[Narcizo]

To re-iterate if the wolf slipped up on their movement then this would be solid proof of who the wolf is. Then we would not have to worry about Neon.

[Narcizo]

Ok. Maybe this would work. Heinz started at C6 I believe (as discussed in the thread). Neon was at C7. Can anyone see a rook not on E7 who is in a position that would not be indicative of an attempted attack on Neon. Attack squares would be A6, B6, C7, C8, D6, E6 onwards.

A case is harder to prove against PB given his queen's position.

[PurdueBrad]

My queens are in separate rows and columns and I probably sound like a jackass because I'm sure this is incorrect vocabulary for chess, sorry.

[PurdueBrad]

I know the position of the rooks and both seem to be in attack position squares, according at least to the list Narcizo gave.

[Neon_Chaos]

Let's make this fun.

Instead of you trying to vote each other off, vote for me, and I get to choose!

:)

Vote Neon Chaos

[PurdueBrad]

Let's make this fun.

Instead of you trying to vote each other off, vote for me, and I get to choose!

:)

Vote Neon Chaos

A smart wolf would vote with you because you could take out a threatening piece rather than the wolf, but I do think it's a funny idea! Of course if you didn't kill the wolf, then you would lose anyway because they would nightkill the last white piece and it leaves 2 kings and 1 wolf which is a victory for the wolves.

[PurdueBrad]

Neon, do you have any thoughts on who might be the wolf that you would be willing to share? Again, know that we both lose if we don't get the wolf here, this is basically the first endgame we've faced.

[ntndeacon]

Vote Narcizo

[jeheinz72]

Excellent. NTN is the lone person here I'm sure has the same interests that I do.

[Narcizo]

Ok I'm going to bed soon. If we are going for a lynch tomorrow then I think everyone can reveal the exact locations of the pieces. We lose nothing as we either win or lose with the lynch.

[jeheinz72]

Not true, white still has to get Neon.
Let's say we're right, lynch you and you're a wolf.

That leave me and PB vs Neon (basically, with NTN kickin' it back there). Granted, there are no wolves, but we still have to get Neon basically in 2 turns. In doing so, I'd prefer he doesn't know where we are located.

[PurdueBrad]

Alright, I'm doing this now so that tomorrow it wouldn't be a hit and run. I'm on a field trip tomorrow so I won't be on around deadline.

vote JEHeinz72

I have one argument between Heinz and Narcizo and that is this:
You two have voted IDENTICAL to each other the entire game. 5 lynches, 5 same votes. The odds of that happening are very, very low. Heinz's vote followed Narcizo's closely in four of those votes, which comes off to me as trying to hide a vote. I know this may not be the strongest reasoning but you two have basically played the exact same game. The other thing I picked up on is that Heinz has been much, MUCH more aggressive in the past two days than most players on the board, almost as though he's trying to drive a vote. So, with that, both of my votes go on JEHeinz and I hope this is right.

I will check for any responses in the morning and then will be looking forward to coming back to see what happened. Good luck white team.

[Chief Rum]

At this point, the pieces are sure that The Jackal is actually The Wolf, and y'all are ready for one of the happiest lynchings so far. The Jackal the howls as his the body is hung. The Jackal was a White Knight and a wolf! Another quiet night, some screams of "Get back here" are heard, but nothing alarming. You wake up to find that oliegirl is missing. oliegirl was a Black Rook!

Is it as odd to you as it is to me, that of all the white pieces targetted, that the Knight was the one taken down? Does that feel specific to you like it does to me?

Actually, wait a sec. Pet theory which may prove useful.

What is the chance a knight is a wolf? Just on sheer numbers. Let's say we assume four wolves (two per side), random piece selection, and take out the kings. So there is a 22% (2 wolves/9 each side) chance of any given player on a side being a wolf. And with two knights, each role has the same 22% chance of the wolf role picking out a knight. First time you role for wolf, 22% chance that wolf is a knight, or 78% chance he is not. Let's say a knight doesn't get hit. Now there is a 2 in 8 (25% chance) of hitting a knight the second time around, removing the player who is already a wolf. That is a 75% chance of wolf =! a knight. Our chance of not having a knight be a wolf on any side is (78%) times (75%), which is (7/9) * (3/4) = (21/36), down to 7/12, or 58.3% chance that a side does not have a wolf knight.

But my theory only needs one wolf knight to work. Each side has a 58.3% chance of NOT having a wolf knight. But the chance neither side has a wolf knight? 58.3% * 58.3% = (7/12) * (7/12) = (49/144) = 34%.

Guys, there is only a 34% chance that we don't have a wolf knight on this board from the get go. Which means we likely DO have a wolf knight.

Okay, let's say you're this wolf knight. Likely enough, your partner knight is not a wolf. In fact, you will know this (you know who the wolves are), so we will assume the partner knight is not a wolf. And you know his name. And you know knights are about as close to a seer as this game has. People, the wolves were likely handed the name of a seer from the start of this game.

That name was Barkeep, and he was betrayed by partner, the other white knight.

And we know one other knight already--The Jackal. He may or may not be the partner knight. But the point is, two other people already know if he is or not--the other knights still alive. So I say, vote for The Jackal. His partner should reveal and come to his defense if The Jackal was not BK's partner. And if he was, the other two knights should both reveal and reveal him for who he is (rooks, be prepared to protect our good knights).

Revealing those knights is risky, but with the benefit of getting another wolf this early in the game? I say it's worth a shot, especially with three remaining bodyguards.

Not going to say there isn't risk (34% chance of a wolf knight is hardly a shoo in), and if The Jackal is not Barkeep's partner, revealing yourself as The Jackal's partner will not reveal BK's actual partner--we will just know it was the other white knight (and should try to kill him in the chess game).

But I thought I would throw this theory out there and let you guys hash it out while I am at work (wish I could be around, but I won't be able to).

VOTE THE JACKAL

Hate to say we told you so, but... (shoulda listened a LOOOOOONG time ago ;) ).

[PurdueBrad]

Not much has gone on except the dead have risen again, HI CHIEF!, so I'm out, off to the Art Institute.

[Narcizo]

I’m afraid this is going to get very, very long. This is my last chance to make amends for my mistakes and if my beliefs are wrong then it’s an awful lot of wasted time. If that’s the penance I have to pay for my mistake in not guarding mccollins then so be it.

My first assumption is that a villager is prepared to die to give victory to his team, while a lone wolf will avoid it. So PB if you genuinely believe that Heinz is the wolf/I’m a villager then I suggest you leave your vote on him. Your two votes will be enough to lynch him, unless someone else gets three votes. I don't know then if I should vote heinz or vote for you. I want to trust you if you stay on Heinz but what if this is a ploy? I move my vote to you. Now Heinz can either vote for you or for me. Either way he's dead. If he moves to you then you're dead and if I'm a wolf I'm in clover. But if I was a wolf I'd just lay my vote on Heinz anyway. If he stays on me then you win and that's the main thing if you know you're a villager.

If for whatever reason you don’t believe that Heinz is the wolf (you were “testing” me somehow or something) then you probably should put your vote on me and then I’ll have to have a crack at convincing NTN and Heinz that you are the wolf. Or you vote No Lynch (see below). If you do put your vote on me then NTN should move to no lynch and Heinz can see if he believes me or not. The only problem is Neon messing with the vote. Then you and I die and Heinz wins as a villager or wolf. This all presumes that you're not going to be around at deadline. I won't be able to be.

<O:p</O:p
<O:p
I’m not sure who the wolf is. I’m fluctuating between a 40-60% for both of you. I know I’m a villager. So that gives me a decent chance of a win. Which is a fat lot better than the 5% chance I thought I had yesterday, when I thought everyone was going to lynch me. Now if you are a villager and you’re not really sure about things, and as my percentage run down shows I’m in the same boat, then you might want to think about voting “No Lynch”. The two villagers get a shot at taking Neon on the board and seeing the wolf not trying to take Neon. If there’s a night kill then the game will almost certainly end in stalemate. Again, given the fact that I thought the village was 95% likely to lose yesterday (with my lynching) then I’ll take a stalemate. (of course you could say the same thing about me if I was a wolf).
<O:p
<O:p

There are three options with your vote;
a) you genuinely think Heinz is the wolf and I’m just ridiculously over-analyzing again. It’s my speciality. As you know. Of course, I want to believe this as I don’t think a wolf would put a vote on the non-leader in a lynch vote. However Heinz does have valid reasons for thinking I'm a wolf. <O:p
b) It’s a wolf ploy. You know we’re both villagers so you’re only too happy for either of us to be voted off. Dunno about that - you could just as easily bury me if you know I'm a villager.
c) This is a test, in which case I hope I passed. Maybe I’m looking a gift horse in the mouth and should just vote for Heinz but if you are the wolf then me putting my vote on Heinz loses us the game every bit as much as me getting voted off.
<O:p
<O:p

There are some things about Jeheinz giving me hinky feelings. I didn’t like the way he came running out of the gates looking to lynch me last night or asked me to provide my reasonings for thinking that you were a wolf. To me that looked like he was asking me to turn you against me by bringing up arguments about you. There is also the theory that there are paired pieces in the game. If that’s the case then Heinz is a wolf (because I know I’m not – 2 rooks/2 knights). He was the first one to mention in PMs voting Kwhit on day one (a fact he will acknowledge if he’s a villager), for example. He seemed to be leading a charge to vote out Quikshot on day one as well when two wolves were on the block. The lack of blocks make a lot more sense when you know the stuff I’ve been saying to him. And it would explain my lack of success in blocking as, although I haven’t always told him who I would block (and I’ve sometimes lied to him) I have also given occasional rundowns.


However, as I have said, I did give him genuine reasons for thinking I was a wolf (were he a villager) over mccollins death. I was trying to play a clever game (I thought he was pressuring me unusually much in PMs to defend mccollins . I started to think he was supicious and he was setting me up so he could kill the bodyguard. So I told him I would do so and then protected myself. Then when mccollins died I was shocked at the mistake I made. I sent a PM where I said, I shouldn't have sent the last message (meaning I had given myself away). Were he a villager he would see this as me saying I regreted saying I was going to defend mccollins whenI was going to kill him. His responses were rather theatrical though.
<O:p
However, you also have given us no information about your pieces whereabouts. This struck me last night.
<O:p


<O:p
I am double-queened.<O:p
<O:p
My queens are in separate rows and columns and I probably sound like a jackass because I'm sure this is incorrect vocabulary for chess, sorry.

If by “double-queened” you mean that your second pawn became a queen now then given the fact that you’ve said your two queens aren’t on the same row or column that means the piece I see must the the piece that has recently been made queen. If that’s the case then the queen which was on A8 cannot have made it’s naturally most attacking move (moving along the 8 row). Because I would be able to see it. I thought that this meant you were the wolf last night but in the cold light of day I’m not so sure.

<O:pOf course Heinz’s move can also be explained if he’s a wolf. He could move to wherever he moved on phase one. At worst he risks bouncing, at best he gets to look like he tried to capture the king. My move is the only one that is 100% likely to succede. However as the likely lynch victim today I might well have taken the chance there.

<O:pSorry this is a mega-post. I know I should be grateful that I even have a chance here but I want to make the right decision. I’m awaiting your response.
For now I

Vote No Lynch
<O:p
My analysis of a no lynch is the following
<O:p</O:p
I’m a wolf and night kill PB – Heinz & NTN vs Me & Neon<O:p</O:p
I’m a wolf and night kill Heinz – Village win (Me & Neon vs PB and NTN – unless NTN changes his mind.<O:p</O:p
PB is a wolf and night kills Heinz – I would imagine wolf wins
<O:pPB is a wolf and night kills me – Heinz has to convince NTN that PB is bad, Neon can interfere<O:p
Heinz is a wolf and night kills me – same as above<O:p></O:p>
Heinz is a wolf and night kills PB – Stalemate Heinz & NTN vs Me & Neon<O:p></O:p>

[Neon_Chaos]

Vote No Lynch

[jeheinz72]

Alright, I'm doing this now so that tomorrow it wouldn't be a hit and run. I'm on a field trip tomorrow so I won't be on around deadline.

vote JEHeinz72

I have one argument between Heinz and Narcizo and that is this:
You two have voted IDENTICAL to each other the entire game. 5 lynches, 5 same votes. The odds of that happening are very, very low. Heinz's vote followed Narcizo's closely in four of those votes, which comes off to me as trying to hide a vote. I know this may not be the strongest reasoning but you two have basically played the exact same game. The other thing I picked up on is that Heinz has been much, MUCH more aggressive in the past two days than most players on the board, almost as though he's trying to drive a vote. So, with that, both of my votes go on JEHeinz and I hope this is right.

I will check for any responses in the morning and then will be looking forward to coming back to see what happened. Good luck white team.

PB, a couple things here, other than you're costing us the game here, presuming you're a white villager, which I think you are

Sorry this is long, but you should read it.

1. As far as my votes "following" Narc's there are two things you need to remember. One, we're PM partners, so our votes naturally align given we've discussed, albeit with a level of distrust mixed in, what our best move to get Neon and win the game is. Hence why our votes typically align. As far as mine coming "2nd" most times, that's time zone man. I'm only on at work, which ends at 6 PM EST. I don't come back on until 9 AM. So I've typically waited until I get back to make my vote. Narcizo is somewhere, I forget where, but it's a way different time zone. Most of the time, he makes his vote, explains it to me, I vote it in the morning (stupidly now, I know)

2. Look at the board, if I am understanding you two right (and you're telling the truth). You are in Row 8 with a queen and Row 7 with a Queen. Neon is somewhere in rows 6-8, I can't see him, but I imagine you can. He's likely to the left of you (if row 8 is on top of the board) I'm in Row 6 with a rook and Narc is in E7 with the rook.

I'm fairly certain that Narc is *between* your 7th row Queen and Neon, to an extent. I admit I'm not 100% on this, but it's my interpretation of past views of people's locations. If that's the case, who is the one blocking you from killing Neon tonight...Narcizo. I mean chess-wise, you and I have it won. We each move laterally left, timing of 8 (well I move left, you move in the direction of Neon, since you can see him). If Neon is in rows 7 or 8, we win tonight guaranteed. He can't avoid our capture with us 2 covering 3 rows like that. It's impossible. If he's in row 6, which he might be, then we're out of luck. I'll admit I guessed wrong sweeping right instead of left then. I underestimated his gusto (figuring he'd think I'd sweep left in the direction of him, when instead I was setting him up for tonight's 3-row guarantee.


3. Now this is the big one. Narcizo full well admits that he told me 2 nights back that he was protecting collins. Now, I understand he was trying to get clever b/c he didn't trust me, that, I get. In a sense, I can't blame him, on the other, it's my personal feel that it was too big of a risk to make that greedy move.

But moving beyond that, if I'm the wolf, and the person I *know* is a wolf bodyguard tells me who he is protecting, even if I don't believe him 100%, why on earth would I try to kill collins? I, as a wolf, would have 3 scenarios

- Believe him, kill him off, resulting in his block (didn't happen)

- Be unsure either way, divert my kill to another candidate (you or olie)

- Think he's lying and try to kill Collins anyway, knowing that failure there with Jackal about to be proven as a wolf (with RendeR's lynch as a villager) basically means I'd lose the game

So it's a pretty simple question here, if you were me, given the same facts, which action are you most likely to take? (I know I would have gone middle, just to keep myself alive) Which action are you least likely to take (clearly for me, it's the last one, the one that happened)


I'm sorry PB, but you've got the wrong cat here. It's probably my fault for not speaking up when Narc tried to set me up with the "Anxiety, Qwik and Cronin" are working together gambit in private, but I can't undo that. You can undo your mistake here.

[Narcizo]

Were I the wolf I'd kill PB and you don't have a chance of taking out Neon. The game would be stalemate. As a wolf I'd have just talked myself out of a win by joining with PB to a stalemate.

[Narcizo]

Again, heinz if you think I'm the wolf then you won't care if PB kills you. PB will win with white. I imagine Pass has a rule that if there's 2 white pieces and a black king then white wins (otherwise the game would never end).

[Narcizo]

That's it made up in my mind. I should have realised that PB was good as soon as he voted for a known villager (me). I wanted to be sure that I wasn't making a mistake though. At least I got to be sure I'm voting correctly.

To stop Neon interfering.

Unvote No Lynch
Vote JeHeinz

[jeheinz72]

Again, heinz if you think I'm the wolf then you won't care if PB kills you. PB will win with white. I imagine Pass has a rule that if there's 2 white pieces and a black king then white wins (otherwise the game would never end).

But PB can certainly win with voting out the wolf and he and I sweeping left and taking out Neon.