Werewolf LXXV - Rise of the Great Old Ones -Students Win!!!!

[Alan T]

And which side is that exactly?? :eek:

I'm just here to learn things!

[Alan T]

Alan,

If we could know for sure EagleFan's role how would that drive your vote? Same question about PurdueBrad?

if EagleFan indeed ended up bad, I think it would help me feel better about Claphamsa and PurdueBrad. I also would suspect heavier Render, Racer, Kwhit, Chief and perhaps a few others.

If PurdueBrad ended up bad, you could probably turn that around in reverse to some extent.

More importantly it would help provide direction for my thoughts on which way to go for day 3

[Racer]

Hmm. It seems to me more likely that The Jackal's death was an attempt to setup Render and/or Racer at least based on the posts quoted by Racer above. I don't really see alot there that hints to me at least of being some kind of role and I can't think of any other reasons why they would have targeted him (other than some past grudge or something that I am unaware of). Some thoughts I had while trying to figure out what a pre-med student was. Someone mentioned perhaps it was to counter balance a poison type role that the wolves may have.. I realized that I don't really know what type of roles the wolves have. I thought I missed it, and re-read through the rules and don't see them there at all. Schmidty are the wolf roles just missing? I see a place there for them to be listed so it doesn't seem like they are purposely left out.. As for where I am going to vote today.. It is a long day, and I will be in at some point before deadline again this weekend so not in a huge rush to get my vote out. If I had to choose right now, would copy my vote from yesterday though. Jackal's death doesn't tell us alot about yesterday's vote and neither does Mccollins death alone. I don't think we really have much to go on until we figure out what else was going on with yesterday's vote.. There were a ton of vote moves, especially late in the day which is very anti-villager. I think we need to try to understand better what exactly was occuring.

If I remember correctly, someone asked Schmidty earlier about what the wolf roles were and I think he answered that they were purposely left out.


Unless they have a way to poison someone or some kind of delayed kill. That would explain needing both a pre-med along with a bodyguard. But I could also be overthinking the whole thing.

I believe path was the first one to mention anything about there being the possibility of poison. Also, did Jackal give any indication that he was a pre-med student?

I'm going to go ahead and throw it out there:

Vote path12

I just want to to hear more of his reasoning.

[claphamsa]

wow. of the 3 people i chat with about mafia... they are all gone. wow! nice! um... vote someone.

[Alan T]

Heading off the computer mos tlikely for the rest of the night. Going to watch old lost episodes with the wife. I'll check in again probably some point tommorrow.

[EagleFan]

Alan seems to be reaching quite a bit. Maybe we'll have to wait and see just what he is actually up to.

PB may be in my circle of trust at this point, unless he is really fooling me. I certainly know where I stand. So that brings us to Alan. He has two villagers in his sights at this point andthat is enough to make me suspicious.

[JetsIn06]

Going to watch old lost episodes

Excellent choice!

[KWhit]

She is new and has only learned from Schmidty.. so she wont be that good to start off ;)

Just kidding... I am going to cut her some slack though.

Understood, and I would cut her some slack too, but she posted that she was alive before schmidty posted the night results and I don't buy her stated reason why. So there was either some 'pillow talk' between Schmidty and her where he told her she was safe (very possible) or it was a rookie wolf mistake.

Without any compelling reason to suspect anyone else, I find the second possibilty reason enough to give her my vote right now - even though she is new.

[Chief Rum]

Going to watch old lost episodes with the wife.

Don't you have to find them first?

[Mrs. Schmidty]

Understood, and I would cut her some slack too, but she posted that she was alive before schmidty posted the night results and I don't buy her stated reason why. So there was either some 'pillow talk' between Schmidty and her where he told her she was safe (very possible) or it was a rookie wolf mistake.

Without any compelling reason to suspect anyone else, I find the second possibilty reason enough to give her my vote right now - even though she is new.

*shakes head*

It's defintely not pillow talk for a few reasons
1. he doesn't sleep, therefore no pillow.
2. he is so uptight about keeping everything a secret from me to the point of being obnoxious. I have to announce when I'm entering the room so he can make sure the screen is cleared.
3. see reason 1. :)

And no, I'm not a wolf.

[Chief Rum]

2. he is so uptight about keeping everything a secret from me to the point of being obnoxious. I have to announce when I'm entering the room so he can make sure the screen is cleared.

lmao

[Schmidty]

I think my wife is already a WW addict.

Oh, and she's playing WoW right now. I'm married to the queen of nerds. :D

[Schmidty]

Just fixed the thread title to reflect that the deadline is on Sunday night.

Like my wife said - I don't sleep and it's catching up to me lately. My mind is going haywire.

[Lorena]

I agree hoops... that is so Dodgerchick ;)

Ouch

[Passacaglia]

I think my wife is already a WW addict.

Oh, and she's playing WoW right now. I'm married to the queen of nerds. :D

or the queen of W's

[LoneStarGirl]

It makes me very suspicious when the top two (sorry Lathum) WW players are being nice to each other. Unless a lot happened in my absence Hoops and Alant were never all too friendly with each other. And now they are chatting like two good ole boys. I don't know what his means... but its an observation

[hoopsguy]

I know that Alan and I have gone round-and-round a few times in games, but I don't necessarily want that to be the trend.

Good ole boys? I'm pretty sure that is the first time I've ever had that designation thrown in my direction.

[Lathum]

It makes me very suspicious when the top two (sorry Lathum) WW players are being nice to each other. Unless a lot happened in my absence Hoops and Alant were never all too friendly with each other. And now they are chatting like two good ole boys. I don't know what his means... but its an observation

no need to be sorry, I really don't consider myself a top player

[Alan T]

Wow, it looks like I didn't miss much of anything at all today. I have to do more network upgrades tonight, so likely won't be on much from 4pm EST until late tonight. I was hoping to see a little more movement in the votes by now so I had a feel where a few people were lining up.

[Alan T]

It makes me very suspicious when the top two (sorry Lathum) WW players are being nice to each other. Unless a lot happened in my absence Hoops and Alant were never all too friendly with each other. And now they are chatting like two good ole boys. I don't know what his means... but its an observation


I've actually been playing in my head last night a few scenerios trying to figure out what Hoops might be up to. I'm pretty sure he knows that I tend to quietly suspect people whom are being "nice" to me or trying to butter me up. I've had many games that I've had wolves try that with me and I ended up voting for them correctly because of it.

I wouldn't say that Hoops has gone as far as "try to butter me up" so to speak in this game, but I am pretty sure he knows I respond far better to a more critical approach, or one that is more questioning in nature. I think Hoops started off that way last night when asking me my thoughts about PB, and that helped me feel a little more trusting of Hoops at least to start. His latest comment is the only one that struck me a bit oddly that I'm not entirely sure what I am feeling on him.

No offense to others whom I have played less games with, but I tend to try to give the benefit of the doubt to a few people that i have played dozens of games with and enjoyed playing with in the past such as Hoopsguy. I usually extend that latitude at least through day 1, and often that extends partially into day two or until I get some evidence to the contrary. Right now the only "evidence" I have against or for Hoops is his vote and he voted the same as me yesterday. Also his line of thinking is one that I can't really fault him for in that I feel that one of two people likely need to be lynched today and he has picked one of them

[Alan T]

Alan seems to be reaching quite a bit. Maybe we'll have to wait and see just what he is actually up to.

PB may be in my circle of trust at this point, unless he is really fooling me. I certainly know where I stand. So that brings us to Alan. He has two villagers in his sights at this point andthat is enough to make me suspicious.

How am I reaching right now with my comments? I don't have anyone that I feel is a definite wolf and have said so. What I do have is two groups of players that seemed to work in conflicting manners yesterday that I'd like to get more information on. I think my thoughts about how to proceed with today are logical.

Along those lines, how would PB be in your circle of trust? I have said that so far his actions feel more "villagerish" than "wolfish" to me, but that is only one of many factors to look at, and in the end we need information and we would get some with his lynch, just as we would get information from your lynch.

[Alan T]

Echo.. echo... e c h o ....

[hoopsguy]

Yep, pretty quiet here this weekend.

I'm going to put out a vote now. I should have a fair amount of Father's Day availability in the early evening timeframe, but I might as well get this in.

VOTE PURDUEBRAD

[claphamsa]

hmmm, i need to vote! no idea who to vote for....

[Mrs. Schmidty]

You found him with his throat slash through his windpipe, which must be why you heard no scream. Also, you found a strange marking that none of you recognize, carved into his forehead.


Ok, from this I get that it was obviously a ritualistic killing. From what I know of cults there is one main leader and then the followers. So I don't think we're lookign for a mere 2 wolves, I think we're looking for at least 3.

[Alan T]

Current vote count:

1) Eaglefan - Path12 (474)
1) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475)
1) Path12 - Racer (503)
1) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523)

I like Path's vote, and so far Path has played this game pretty similar to the same plays that I have been considering. Good or bad, he seems to be on the same page of the book as me.

I hate Kwhit's vote for Mrs.Schmidty. It feels like he is forcing something there.

Racer's vote for Path makes little sense to me, but not too suprising as Racer is one of my top suspects right now.

Hoops's vote for PurdueBrad is logical if the vote is for reasons that I think it is. I just currently am considering going a different way to reach the same goal.

[Racer]

Current vote count:

1) Eaglefan - Path12 (474)
1) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475)
1) Path12 - Racer (503)
1) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523)

I like Path's vote, and so far Path has played this game pretty similar to the same plays that I have been considering. Good or bad, he seems to be on the same page of the book as me.

I hate Kwhit's vote for Mrs.Schmidty. It feels like he is forcing something there.

Racer's vote for Path makes little sense to me, but not too suprising as Racer is one of my top suspects right now.

Hoops's vote for PurdueBrad is logical if the vote is for reasons that I think it is. I just currently am considering going a different way to reach the same goal.

His comments has struck me as odder then anyone else's so far Alan. He mentions the poison thing out of nowhere. His reasoning to why Jackal may have died also seemed forced. Unless I'm missing something, he gave no indication he was the Pre-Med student.

[Alan T]

His comments has struck me as odder then anyone else's so far Alan. He mentions the poison thing out of nowhere. His reasoning to why Jackal may have died also seemed forced. Unless I'm missing something, he gave no indication he was the Pre-Med student.

Is this the quote that you find really odd?

Unless they have a way to poison someone or some kind of delayed kill. That would explain needing both a pre-med along with a bodyguard. But I could also be overthinking the whole thing.

I guess this quote doesn't really bother me at all. The only game I can recall that I've played in with some kind of "medical" role was the Spawn game, and in it, there was a delayed action that took I believe two days. If the doctor could choose to treat that person within that time, they would prevent it from happening. In that particular game, the effect wasn't poison, but instead was a conversion ability.

I ran a game a year or more ago where there was a doctor, but it acted more like a bodyguard (you could choose someone to treat that night, and if you picked the person who was attacked you prevented them from dying).

So I don't really see Path's suggestion as odd or a reach at all. Its perhaps a bit more specific than my particular thoughts were on the subject, as I felt "PRE-med" means that he might not necessarily have an ability yet, but could "learn" into it somehow.

Right now pretty much almost every opinion you've had about players this game has been about 180degrees opposite of mine on the same subjects..

[Racer]

Is this the quote that you find really odd?



I guess this quote doesn't really bother me at all. The only game I can recall that I've played in with some kind of "medical" role was the Spawn game, and in it, there was a delayed action that took I believe two days. If the doctor could choose to treat that person within that time, they would prevent it from happening. In that particular game, the effect wasn't poison, but instead was a conversion ability.

I ran a game a year or more ago where there was a doctor, but it acted more like a bodyguard (you could choose someone to treat that night, and if you picked the person who was attacked you prevented them from dying).

So I don't really see Path's suggestion as odd or a reach at all. Its perhaps a bit more specific than my particular thoughts were on the subject, as I felt "PRE-med" means that he might not necessarily have an ability yet, but could "learn" into it somehow.

Right now pretty much almost every opinion you've had about players this game has been about 180degrees opposite of mine on the same subjects..

That's the quote I found odd. I think I've only voiced my opinions on two players so far (PurdueBrad and path). I know people don't like talking about other games, but I was very confused about PurdueBrad because of the game I just got done playing. I believe multiple people were saying he usually plays aggressive as a villager. At the end of the game, I actually thought he was a villager (which is clear if you read the post game comments) and thought Axxon was pissed off at Danny. He played much less aggressive there. Therefore, I had just finished with what I thought was a difference experience with Brad as a villager then what other players had experienced.

[Alan T]

That's the quote I found odd. I think I've only voiced my opinions on two players so far (PurdueBrad and path). I know people don't like talking about other games, but I was very confused about PurdueBrad because of the game I just got done playing. I believe multiple people were saying he usually plays aggressive as a villager. At the end of the game, I actually thought he was a villager (which is clear if you read the post game comments) and thought Axxon was pissed off at Danny. He played much less aggressive there. Therefore, I had just finished with what I thought was a difference experience with Brad as a villager then what other players had experienced.

So then if you are suspicious of Path and PurdueBrad, why would you today choose to target Path, whom if he did get lynched wouldn't tell us a whole lot about anyone else really?

[Racer]

So then if you are suspicious of Path and PurdueBrad, why would you today choose to target Path, whom if he did get lynched wouldn't tell us a whole lot about anyone else really?

I don't have a reason to be suspicious of PurdueBrad anymore. He ended up being the sorcerer in that game, not a villager so Brad's more aggressive play doesn't seem so odd now.

I probably won't keep my vote on Path. However, I'm a little suspicious of him, no one else has mentioned his name, so I thought I'd suggest him and also vote for him. Mainly, I'd like to hear more from him.

[Racer]

Clap, I see you're here. You've been awfully quiet compared to the last game. Any thoughts?

[Mrs. Schmidty]

So basically you suggest someone for the lynch just to see them defend themselves, more or less anyway?

[hoopsguy]

Mrs S, putting a vote on someone is often a good way to get someone's attention, at the very least.

[Racer]

So basically you suggest someone for the lynch just to see them defend themselves, more or less anyway?

Not so much that really. I do it more to see what their game opinions are. See if they trust anyone, see if they are suspicious of anyone, etc. That way, if someone is lynched or dies, and they gave their opinion, you can start to try to piece things together a bit better. Votes are probably more telling, but the more information we have the better.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

Since I am a novice, I don't know yet if I can trust my instincts. On day 1 Chief seemed more interested in chattin' me up then in playing the game. Since I don't know his play style, maybe that's normal, to appear cool under pressure. As a first timer though, it seemed like someone trying to appear nonchalant when they had something to hide.

Kwhit throwing me under the bus for supposedly jumping the gun seemed desperate.

Alan, from what I've seen, is either a strong ally or fierce enemy, would seem safe to remove him and let the cards fall as they may.

I'm going with the first one however for this night.

If I am wrong Chief, forgive me.

VOTE CHIEF RUM

[Mrs. Schmidty]

or the queen of W's

haha they're kind of a fun band actually (The W's), ever heard them? :p

[Chief Rum]

Since I am a novice, I don't know yet if I can trust my instincts. On day 1 Chief seemed more interested in chattin' me up then in playing the game. Since I don't know his play style, maybe that's normal, to appear cool under pressure. As a first timer though, it seemed like someone trying to appear nonchalant when they had something to hide.

Kwhit throwing me under the bus for supposedly jumping the gun seemed desperate.

Alan, from what I've seen, is either a strong ally or fierce enemy, would seem safe to remove him and let the cards fall as they may.

I'm going with the first one however for this night.

If I am wrong Chief, forgive me.

VOTE CHIEF RUM

Heh, no need to ask for forgiveness. If we all did that, these threads would be twice as long as we all recount how we're wrong about stuff. :)

I was trying to chat you up a little--for meta game reasons. A) you said you're from CA, and I have lived out here all my life, and B) Schmidty and I have a looooong online history now, not just here, but in online leagues as well, and I would classify our relationship (for what it can be called, being over the Internet) as sometimes contentious, sometimes pretty friendly, but always interesting.

So you have two marks for you that interest me more than usual. Plus, I like WW, and you're jumping in with good enthusiasm. ;)

Okay, enough, good natured talk. You're welcome to your opinions, but you're wrong. You can ask Schmidty, and he'll tell you I am one of the lengthier posters on the board. So my chattiness is probably something most others would accept as a normal Chief Rum behavior.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

You can ask Schmidty, and he'll tell you I am one of the lengthier posters on the board. So my chattiness is probably something most others would accept as a normal Chief Rum behavior.

LOL I would ask him but all my questions are to be posted on the boards for all to see in regards to this WW game :D

[Chief Rum]

Okay, put me in the camp of being curious about how and why things happened the way they did on Day One. That means voting for EF or PB.

PurdueBrad, IMO, has gotten a lot of heat for the other game, and I'm not really too keen on the "I fucked up" line. Trust me, Brad, we have all screwed the pooch big time once you play long enough. Gotta learn from it, bury it, realize you bring a lot to these games, and move on.

But outside of all that, I think EF is more likely to be a wolf right now. It just felt like he was stringing us along a bit with his vote not being in play among the candidates with his own neck on the line. What is he waiting for?

So if PB or EF needs to go for us to learn something, I'm going with EF.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

Preliminary vote, of course, since I will be around some tomorrow.

[Axxon]

I don't have a reason to be suspicious of PurdueBrad anymore. He ended up being the sorcerer in that game, not a villager so Brad's more aggressive play doesn't seem so odd now.

I probably won't keep my vote on Path. However, I'm a little suspicious of him, no one else has mentioned his name, so I thought I'd suggest him and also vote for him. Mainly, I'd like to hear more from him.

PBs begging to be killed strikes me as odd since it actually hurts whichever team he's on. Either it was a poorly thought out reaction ( he wasn't drunk fwiw ) or possibly a very clever ruse or maybe both. If he was the sorcerer again and didn't want to play it would make sense to get himself offed.

Either way, I'm not ready to vote him off especially since he's not around.

Again, vote subject to change but I want to get one in fairly early so

VOTE claphamsa

I'm kinda getting used to this vote. :)

Really, this vote is for comic effect. I wouldn't read anything into it because there's nothing to read into it. I haven't got a read on anyone yet.

[claphamsa]

Clap, I see you're here. You've been awfully quiet compared to the last game. Any thoughts?

ive found in most games the more posts i make the more likely i am to die. i wodul rather avoid that. I was tryign to be helpful to th n00bs last game :)

[claphamsa]

vtoe cheif rum

im gonna be around most of the day. and cheif seems like a good spot to get started. but i got nothing!

[Passacaglia]

vtoe cheif rum

im gonna be around most of the day. and cheif seems like a good spot to get started. but i got nothing!

Why does Chief seem like a good spot to get started?

[henry296]

VOTE EagleFan

A couple of reasons. First if he is a wolf that also clears lots of people who voted for him yesterday. Also, with Jackal's late vote on Eagle that could be a reason that he was killed overnight.

[hoopsguy]

Early morning vote totals:

Eagle - Path (474), Chief (540), Henry (545)
Rum - MrS (536), Clap (543)
RendeR - PB (404)
MrS - KWhit (475)
Path - Racer (503)
PB - Hoops (523)
Clap - Axxon (541)

[hoopsguy]

Also, voting logic so far:

PB votes Render (pushed him into D1 vote) - post 404
Path votes Eagle (repeat D1 vote) - post 474
KWhit votes MrS (I LIVE!) - post 475
Path votes Racer (suspects poison) - post 503
Hoops votes PB (D1 vote review) - post 523
MrS votes Rum (something to hide) - post 536
Rum votes Eagle (revisit D1) - post 540
Axxon votes Clap (comic effect) - post 541
Clap votes Rum (good place to start) - post 543
Henry votes Eagle (D1 impact) - post 545

[Alan T]

Also, voting logic so far:

PB votes Render (pushed him into D1 vote) - post 404
Path votes Eagle (repeat D1 vote) - post 474
KWhit votes MrS (I LIVE!) - post 475
Path votes Racer (suspects poison) - post 503
Hoops votes PB (D1 vote review) - post 523
MrS votes Rum (something to hide) - post 536
Rum votes Eagle (revisit D1) - post 540
Axxon votes Clap (comic effect) - post 541
Clap votes Rum (good place to start) - post 543
Henry votes Eagle (D1 impact) - post 545

Hoops, you have this line backwards. Racer voted Path for that reason.

[claphamsa]

lack of better option...

I realy like henrys reasoning, but... i dont wanna change 30 min after voting./ dont worry all ill be aroudn all day!

Why does Chief seem like a good spot to get started?

[oliegirl]

I also think the "I LIVE" thing from Mrs. Schmidty is pretty suspicious...I also think that when something "big" like that happens that causes a lot of the players to be suspicious of the same person, sometimes it's better to know one way or the other and chance being wrong, than to leave that person in the game - it's distracting as that person is always a part of the CoDT...so for now,

VOTE MRS. SCHMIDTY

[hoopsguy]

Hoops, you have this line backwards. Racer voted Path for that reason.

Thanks. I'm surprised I don't have more of them backwards, since that format is flipping around the way I have stuff listed in the vote tally.

[Passacaglia]

If it wasn't your very first game, I'd vote you for this.


Reason is this -- it strikes of a wolf pretending to be surprised they're still around. Unless you're a seer or something (and please don't say so if you are!!!) very new players are unlikely wolf targets. They'd probably think that you're confused enough so there's no harm in keeping you around. ;)

Here's the best reasoning I see for voting Mrs. Schmidty. Do the people voting her really think she's a wolf in her first game trying a ploy of being surprised they're still around. It strikes me as WAY more like someone just happy not to have died early in her first game.

[Passacaglia]

Throw a ? at the end of the second sentence in my last post.

[Passacaglia]

Maybe fix some pronouns, too.

[hoopsguy]

Yep, I see the Mrs Schmidty votes as a bit of a reach.

[Alan T]

I actually see 5 or possibly 6 of the current 11 votes as being "Reaches"

[Alan T]

I've been waiting to see where Render and Eaglefan both chose to go with their vote (in addition to Racer who threw away his vote seemingly so far). With it being father's day, I'm not sure when I'll be on later today so need to get a vote in now just in case. Going to continue with my previous comments to see what happens.

Vote Eaglefan

[Alan T]

This is what I see as the current vote count:

4) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Chief Rum (540), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557)
2) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)
1) Path12 - Racer (503)
1) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523)
1) Claphamsa - Axxon (541)

I fully expect Eaglefan to come to vote to save himself, and I fully expect Render to come try to help save Eaglefan too.

[Alan T]

Why does Chief seem like a good spot to get started?

I think this is the same question I wanted to ask.


lack of better option...

I realy like henrys reasoning, but... i dont wanna change 30 min after voting./ dont worry all ill be aroudn all day!


Why is there no better option? You are saying in a game with 17 choices to pick from, your best option without any evidence one way or another is to go for the player who was voted recently as the best villager player in our WW games?

[Passacaglia]

VOTE CLAPHAMSA

My hunch is that he's saving ef.

[LoneStarGirl]

I dont like the Cheif votes or the Mrs. Schmidty votes at all. Mrs. Schmidty is a new player who just got excited. KWhit and Ollie seem happy for an excuse to put their votes on somebody who most people are not going to vote for. I dont understand the Chief vote at all... and I am always suspicious of the person who puts a second vote on somebody with out a good reason.

So my thinking is, Kwhit and or Ollie put their vote on Schmidty because she gave them a half decent reason to... but since both of them have played their fair share of games they are good enough to have a more solid reason than a 'I live!' statement.'

I have never played with Claps before our small game last week (Which i lasted a day and a half) but I can already tell we play totally different games.

I really want to make this a two horse race, but I cannot put a vote on Chief or Schmidty without more reason...

[LoneStarGirl]

Damnit Pass.. I was about to do that

[LoneStarGirl]

I really dont want to vote Clap a mere minutes after Pass did.... I am going to wait another hour or two to vote, see if anything else comes up

[Alan T]

VOTE CLAPHAMSA

My hunch is that he's saving ef.

If you felt Clap was trying to save EF, why wouldn't you just vote for EF then?

[Passacaglia]

If you felt Clap was trying to save EF, why wouldn't you just vote for EF then?

He has enough votes on him now at the moment.

[claphamsa]

hey, I said I made prety much a random vote... and pass and LSG are jumping on me.... I think that will tell us something down the road.

[LoneStarGirl]

hey, I said I made prety much a random vote... and pass and LSG are jumping on me.... I think that will tell us something down the road.

I haven't voted yet... just thought about it

[Mrs. Schmidty]

If you felt Clap was trying to save EF, why wouldn't you just vote for EF then?

+1

[EagleFan]

VOTE EagleFan

A couple of reasons. First if he is a wolf that also clears lots of people who voted for him yesterday. Also, with Jackal's late vote on Eagle that could be a reason that he was killed overnight.

That wouldn't be a very good play by a wolf, to go after someone that voted for him. It's normally the wolves trying to set someone up to be voted against. I see there is a bit of a run on me (up to this post, haven't read the rest yet, responding as I go) and that is something that needs to be seriously looked at.

Somehow the wolves have two villagers being talked up around here, me and PB. Hopefully the rest of the villagers will see what is going on here.

[Racer]

That wouldn't be a very good play by a wolf, to go after someone that voted for him. It's normally the wolves trying to set someone up to be voted against. I see there is a bit of a run on me (up to this post, haven't read the rest yet, responding as I go) and that is something that needs to be seriously looked at.

Somehow the wolves have two villagers being talked up around here, me and PB. Hopefully the rest of the villagers will see what is going on here.

How are you so certain that PB is a villager?

[EagleFan]

vote Chief Rum

A revenge vote ;) and a save my butt vote.

Either way my plan will be saving everyone except ritualists. Unless RendeR doesn't look too good later.

[Passacaglia]

+1

He has enough votes on him now at the moment.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

We're heading out for a few hours. My vote is not etched in stone, I'd like to see more discussion to go over when I get back.

Happy Father's Day to the dads out there!

[Chief Rum]

lack of better option...

I realy like henrys reasoning, but... i dont wanna change 30 min after voting./ dont worry all ill be aroudn all day!

Okay, that's about as close to a crap reason as I have ever seen. Putting this second vote on me was the smelliest move yet in this game, and I'm not just saying that just because I am the target. This one just stinks--much better than my reason to go after EF.

UNVOTE EAGLEFAN

VOTE CLAPHAMSA

[claphamsa]

fair enough..... see people thats why we poke at random people! CR came up swining after a random vote with a good explanation, so.... I am now happy in my vote!

[Chief Rum]

fair enough..... see people thats why we poke at random people! CR came up swining after a random vote with a good explanation, so.... I am now happy in my vote!

You see, the difference is, I didn't try to trump up a vote on a villager with my switch, like you did. I am reacting to a poor vote. Your excuse, lemme look it up, sort of a "just because"? And a second vote, to boot.

I don't mind votes for me. I get them all the time. And I certainly have done nothing to prove I am a villager (I don't really have a way of doing that, being a plain ole). But at least have a reason.

But whatever is, is. I am out for most of the afternoon. I'll be back before deadline.

[claphamsa]

huh? i didnt switch.... and if we have 6-7 peple with one vote we learn nothing... so its not abad vote unless you are a wolf. then its a GREAT vote.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

3) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557)
3) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543), Eaglefan (571)
3) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Pass (560), Chief Rum(574)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)
1) Path12 - Racer (503)
1) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523)

[Racer]

Unvote path12
Vote PurdueBrad

I'd like to hear more from path. I'm fine if we lynch a candidate from day one. What I don't like is those who support lynching another day are letting EagleFan to ascend to the top of the vote while allowing PurdueBrad to be pretty much forgotten about. That's enough for me to vote for him for now.

Among those with more then four votes, I don't really like the rationale for voting for Mrs.Schmidty or Chief Rum. I understand the votes on Claph. I have found him to be more quiet then the last game and I'm not sure I buy his clueless bit.

[Racer]

I'd like to hear more from path. I'm fine if we lynch a candidate from day one. What I don't like is those who support lynching another day one candidate are letting EagleFan to ascend to the top of the vote while allowing PurdueBrad to be pretty much forgotten about. That's enough for me to vote for him for now.

Among those with more then four votes, I don't really like the rationale for voting for Mrs.Schmidty or Chief Rum. I understand the votes on Claph. I have found him to be more quiet then the last game and I'm not sure I buy his clueless bit.

fixed.

[JetsIn06]

Sorry guys, I've been at my dad's all day and just got the chance to log on.

Many of the reasons you all have given for Eaglefan make sense, so I'm going to be a follower here.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

[EagleFan]

Sorry guys, I've been at my dad's all day and just got the chance to log on.

Many of the reasons you all have given for Eaglefan make sense, so I'm going to be a follower here.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

????

What reasons? There have not been any concrete reasons given yet. Not going to defend myself though, lynch me if you want but that would be a lousy move for us. The wolves must be loving this, villagers doing their dirty work for them.

Keep an eye on Jets as that post and vote seem wolfish.

[LoneStarGirl]

4) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557) JetsIn06 (561)
3) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543), Eaglefan (571)
3) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Pass (560), Chief Rum(574)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)
1) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523) Racer (579)

Updated post count.... besides me three others have not voted.

[LoneStarGirl]

I believe when Hoops comes back he will move his vote off of PB as he was hoping Purdue would have a lot more suspicion on him than he currently does.

[LoneStarGirl]

And just noticing things... render only has 9 posts, including his post saying he wanted to play. Is that about par for him? Or does he generally post a lot more?

[EagleFan]

And just noticing things... render only has 9 posts, including his post saying he wanted to play. Is that about par for him? Or does he generally post a lot more?

I think he usually posts more but if I remember correctly there was something going on in his life outside of FOFC (I know it's hard to belive that there is life outside FOFC ;) ) during the last game (not the short game, I wasn't in that one and don't know if he was) that kept him from posting much.

[Axxon]

Very close vote so far. It'll be interesting to see who moves where.

[RendeR]

And just noticing things... render only has 9 posts, including his post saying he wanted to play. Is that about par for him? Or does he generally post a lot more?


In all honesty I usually post a lot more however in recent weeks and games I've both been busier and simply not had as much to say. I've found that most of you guys tend to cover things very well and I haven't had the need to put in much.

The last big game I had one busy day where we had some confusion with Lathum I think and I posted quite a bit that day or two but otherwise I've been quiet for lack of anything useful to add.

My weekends are a bit busier these days. Telle and I play tennis on Friday nights and She has Yoga saturdays so I watch the kids, then I work sunday mornings and after work today I curled up and napped.

So yes indeed it would appear that I am getting a life so to speak ;)

I don't have any real issues with chief or eaglefan or PB at this point. As on day 1 I tend to like 3 way races near deadline, you get to see a lot more movement I think.

I'm wondering what the vote on me was for? any reason or was it random? I don't really mind since I'm used to getting a lot more votes than I have lately so its good by me =)

As for my vote, I'll throw mine on Chief for now, pending any revelations or better info. This is only to keep the votes close for the time being, no other reason right now. Still not much data out there.


VOTE CHIEF RUM

[claphamsa]

In all honesty I usually post a lot more however in recent weeks and games I've both been busier and simply not had as much to say. I've found that most of you guys tend to cover things very well and I haven't had the need to put in much.

The last big game I had one busy day where we had some confusion with Lathum I think and I posted quite a bit that day or two but otherwise I've been quiet for lack of anything useful to add.

My weekends are a bit busier these days. Telle and I play tennis on Friday nights and She has Yoga saturdays so I watch the kids, then I work sunday mornings and after work today I curled up and napped.

So yes indeed it would appear that I am getting a life so to speak ;)

I don't have any real issues with chief or eaglefan or PB at this point. As on day 1 I tend to like 3 way races near deadline, you get to see a lot more movement I think.

I'm wondering what the vote on me was for? any reason or was it random? I don't really mind since I'm used to getting a lot more votes than I have lately so its good by me =)

As for my vote, I'll throw mine on Chief for now, pending any revelations or better info. This is only to keep the votes close for the time being, no other reason right now. Still not much data out there.


VOTE CHIEF RUM

watch out, or pass and LSG will jump on you!

[Alan T]

I can't really say that I am suprised about how today's vote has gone.. especially from a few specific voters. If I get more time tonight before the deadline, I'll have to see if the same people who tried to save Eaglefan are doing the same tonight.. and/or to see if the same people who tried to "save" PurdueBrad on day 1 are doing the same for Claphamsa today.

[Alan T]

Voted for Eaglefan both day 1 & Day 2 so far: Path12, Alan T
Voted for PurdueBrad both day 1 & Day 2 so far: Racer
Voted for PurdueBrad day 1 & Claphamsa day 2 so far: Axxon, Passacaglia

Voted for viable alternate to Eaglefan day1 and day 2 (Mccollins or PB on day 1, Chief or Claphamsa day 2): Eaglefan, Render, Axxon, Passacaglia

Voted for viable alternate to PurdueBrad/Claphamsa day 1 and day 2 (Eaglefan or Mccollins day1 , Chief or Eaglefan day 2): Path12, Henry296, Alan T, Jetsin06, Claphamsa, Eaglefan, Render

Threw away a vote on either day1 or day 2: MrsSchmidty, Lonestargirl, PurdueBrad, Telle (hasn't voted day2 yet)

[Mrs. Schmidty]

If my random vote for day 1 is counted as being thrown away, so should anyone who voted for McCollins :)

[Mrs. Schmidty]

not McCollins, Thejackal

[Mrs. Schmidty]

dammit, I was right the first time lol McCollins was voted out, jackal was killed, you get my point anyway!

[LoneStarGirl]

watch out, or pass and LSG will jump on you!

I dont like smart asses

vote claphamsa

[LoneStarGirl]

anybody have an updated vote count? I definitely dont want a tie, so my vote is subject to change. I am interested in seeing what happens in these last 50 minutes

[hoopsguy]

So am I the only person who voted for EF/PB on D1/D2, but flipped between candidates? Just curious how that fits on the matrix you are compiling.

Also, does anyone have an updated vote count?

[hoopsguy]

Gah, just realized that the vote is coming in 50 minutes. I'm heading out to mow the lawn here while I've still got some light so I'm going to miss deadline.

Vote is 90% going to stay where it is at, as I think it is on the right person. If it is moving, it will have to be very fast.

[RendeR]

I dont like smart asses

vote claphamsa


If the snakeskin cowgirl boots fit darlin :banana:

[Chief Rum]

Okay, not much has happened except bad voting, I see. ;)

[Alan T]

If my random vote for day 1 is counted as being thrown away, so should anyone who voted for McCollins :)

I would consider a "throw away" vote as someone who puts a vote on someone that isn't a part of the run off at the time of the vote. On day 1, throw aways aren't really that meaningful, but later on that type of information might become valuable. For instance, if a wolf was close to being lynched and you had a throw away vote that didn't even try to save them it might be considered by some as a slight nod to being ok.. On the otherhand if it was a run off of villagers, usually wolves are more than happy to either throw away a vote, or just jump in the middle somewhere on any of the choices so it doesn't mean as much.

I just was keeping note of what type of "voting patterns" people have had thus far is all. It is tough to have a voting history by day 2, especially without knowing what all happened on day 1... However it seems right now alot more people are interested in voting to save Eaglefan than to try to get to the bottom of day 1's votes. I guess everyone other than me already knows enough from day 1 to look elsewhere.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

(http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?p=1750623#post1750623)
4) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557) JetsIn06 (561)
4) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543), Eaglefan (571), Render (588)
4) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Pass (560), Chief Rum(574), LSG (595)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)
1) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523) Racer (579)

[Telle]

Only if we are talking about probability alone. That is only one piece of the picture though.. The other piece is what do you learn from the info?

Lets say PurdueBrad is lynched and ends up being a villager.. what do we learn? Ok.. well maybe Mccollins or EagleFan or both are wolves.. so we then lynch one of them.. or do we go after both and spend three days on what might be just three villagers.. if PurdueBrad is a wolf, what do we learn about the others? Well not much about mccollins or Eaglefan as of yet.. we feel a bit better about Render, but thats it..
...

Alan, do you realize you're been pushing all day two what you were afraid of day one? You think everyone should vote for one of the two vote leaders from day one, but this could just end up having us running in circles.

[Alan T]

This is what I have as current voting count on the list I've been keeping up to date.

4) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557), Jetsin06 (581)
4) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543), Eaglefan (571), Render (588)
4) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Passacaglia (560), Chief RUm (574), Lonestargirl (595)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
2) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523), Racer (579)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)

[Chief Rum]

So am I the only person who voted for EF/PB on D1/D2, but flipped between candidates? Just curious how that fits on the matrix you are compiling.

Also, does anyone have an updated vote count?

You mean, are you the only one who voted in the rundown and then is moving to someone in that same group to try to learn something? I don't think so. That's what I was aiming to do before clap started to build me up to save EF. Then I switched to clap. I may even switch back to EF. If they're in cahoots, one is as good as the other.

[hoopsguy]

OK, looks like a three way tie with 4 - Eagle, Chief, Clap.

I really think PB is more likely than Eagle to be a wolf from D1. I don't have terribly strong feelings on the other two players so far.

If I move my vote from PB then he drops to one, and there is little chance he'll pick up the votes he needs to be the lynch candidate. So I'm sticking where I'm at and will accept any questioning of it that arises later in the game.

Off to mow.

[Alan T]

So am I the only person who voted for EF/PB on D1/D2, but flipped between candidates? Just curious how that fits on the matrix you are compiling.

Also, does anyone have an updated vote count?

Yes in either scenerio, you are the only person who voted for EF on day 1, and then voted for either PB or Claphamsa today.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

This is what I have as current voting count on the list I've been keeping up to date.

4) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557), Jetsin06 (581)
4) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543), Eaglefan (571), Render (588)
4) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Passacaglia (560), Chief RUm (574), Lonestargirl (595)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
2) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523), Racer (579)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)

Yours is right, mine is wrong, I forgot to change PB to 2 :)

[hoopsguy]

Chief, I meant voted for one of them on D1 and the other on D2.

[Telle]

I'm not liking clap's play, and I just have a gut feeling that going after PurdueBrad or EagleFan is a waste of time.

VOTE CLAPHASMA

[Chief Rum]

OK, looks like a three way tie with 4 - Eagle, Chief, Clap.

I really think PB is more likely than Eagle to be a wolf from D1. I don't have terribly strong feelings on the other two players so far.

If I move my vote from PB then he drops to one, and there is little chance he'll pick up the votes he needs to be the lynch candidate. So I'm sticking where I'm at and will accept any questioning of it that arises later in the game.

Off to mow.

I understand sticking to your guns, but that is a very curious move, IMO. Especially if we later discover one of these candidates are a wolf.

[Chief Rum]

Chief, I meant voted for one of them on D1 and the other on D2.

Oh, well, in that case, that is what I aimed to do. I voted for PB Day 1, and I voted for EF for tonight's vote. As I said, only clap's weird play has turned me from that.

[Alan T]

Alan, do you realize you're been pushing all day two what you were afraid of day one? You think everyone should vote for one of the two vote leaders from day one, but this could just end up having us running in circles.


I don't know that is a fear of mine as much as just a common occurance is all. But it is often necessary.. You plug along in a WW game until you are given some kind of information. That information might come from a role reveal, or from a lucky lynch of a wolf. Right now we haven't received any of that information so the most logical path is the one to try to understand better what occured in the only day of voting history that we have up until now.

[Alan T]

Stepping away a bit for dinner. I don't know if I'll be back before lynch.

[LoneStarGirl]

Hoop, you are the only one out of the 5 that have 'throw away' votes online right now. why are you not putting your horse in the race? Why are you so stuck on PB?

[Axxon]

Stepping away a bit for dinner. I don't know if I'll be back before lynch.

I thought lynch came before dinner.

Breakfast, lynch then dinner. Yes, that's right. ;)

[Chief Rum]

I have a bde feeling about another three-way tie. This whole situation is ripe for manipulation.

[Chief Rum]

bde=bad

[LoneStarGirl]

I dont think there is a tie anymore, didn't telle put it up for Claps?

[Mrs. Schmidty]

5) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Passacaglia (560), Chief RUm (574), Lonestargirl (595), Telle (610)
4) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557), Jetsin06 (581)
4) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543), Eaglefan (571), Render (588)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
2) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523), Racer (579)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)

[Telle]

I dont think there is a tie anymore, didn't telle put it up for Claps?

Yep, he's now in the lead by one. But with just under a half hour to go, there's plenty of time for votes to move around.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

I would consider a "throw away" vote as someone who puts a vote on someone that isn't a part of the run off at the time of the vote. On day 1, throw aways aren't really that meaningful, but later on that type of information might become valuable. For instance, if a wolf was close to being lynched and you had a throw away vote that didn't even try to save them it might be considered by some as a slight nod to being ok.. On the otherhand if it was a run off of villagers, usually wolves are more than happy to either throw away a vote, or just jump in the middle somewhere on any of the choices so it doesn't mean as much.

I just was keeping note of what type of "voting patterns" people have had thus far is all. It is tough to have a voting history by day 2, especially without knowing what all happened on day 1... However it seems right now alot more people are interested in voting to save Eaglefan than to try to get to the bottom of day 1's votes. I guess everyone other than me already knows enough from day 1 to look elsewhere.

Thanks for the clarification Alan, I get it now :)

[Chief Rum]

Yep, he's now in the lead by one. But with just under a half hour to go, there's plenty of time for votes to move around.

Exactly. One vote leads with two candidates right behind does not for a light and easy situation make. Especially with how we're prone to jump around at the end.

[Telle]

Hrrrmmm... the fact that there hasn't been vote movement thus far does make me kinda nervous..

[Mrs. Schmidty]

I have a feeling the voting is going to be boring today with it being Father's Day and all. Dinner times might be a little more set and such.

[Chief Rum]

Hrrrmmm... the fact that there hasn't been vote movement thus far does make me kinda nervous..

My guess is those who wish to manipulate the vote are waiting until the last minute. Do it too soon, and others might be able to step in and stop them.

[LoneStarGirl]

Well since there are four of us in here with 15 minutes left, I really dont think there will be any late movement

[Chief Rum]

Well since there are four of us in here with 15 minutes left, I really dont think there will be any late movement

Only one vote needs to change, though. Guess we'll see.

[Racer]

Well since there are four of us in here with 15 minutes left, I really dont think there will be any late movement

The masters getting ready to finish up also may be having an impact.

[Racer]

Sorry, I mean the U.S. Open.

[EagleFan]

Almost missed the deadline. Was at a store and watching MLB:The Show being demoed and just standing there contemplating the wife's reaction if I came home with a PS3 and a game (just for that one game). Good judgement got the best of me but it was a close battle.

Of course.... then I get home and she says "you could have gotten it"

I think I know what I'll be doing tomorrow!!! :D

[Schmidty]

I'm cooking dinner (ON FATHER'S DAY ;) ), so I might be like 1/2 hour late or so with results. Please bear with me.

[Telle]

Racer, your vote isn't on one of the three vote leaders. You planning on keeping it where it is?

[Chief Rum]

Almost missed the deadline. Was at a store and watching MLB:The Show being demoed and just standing there contemplating the wife's reaction if I came home with a PS3 and a game (just for that one game). Good judgement got the best of me but it was a close battle.

Of course.... then I get home and she says "you could have gotten it"

I think I know what I'll be doing tomorrow!!! :D

Personally, I would have run out to the car the second after she said that. :)

[Racer]

3) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557)
3) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543), Eaglefan (571)
3) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Pass (560), Chief Rum(574)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)
1) Path12 - Racer (503)
1) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523)

Racer, your vote isn't on one of the three vote leaders. You planning on keeping it where it is?

I will if there's movement. I'm seeing if anyone tries to save anyone.

[EagleFan]

Personally, I would have run out to the car the second after she said that. :)

I think the store is open until 10, I have an hour left after the DL!!! :D

[EagleFan]

I will if there's movement. I'm seeing if anyone tries to save anyone.

Just FYI, that vote count is old.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

That's an old tally you're looking at there...

[Telle]

claphasma's in the lead, with EagleFan and Chief Rum trailing by 1.

[EagleFan]

unvote CR

vote clap


Self preservation vote. It's like day one all over again. This is getting old... :(

[LoneStarGirl]

I have one minute until deadline

[Schmidty]

Deadline

[Axxon]

I have one minute until deadline

How much do the rest of us have? ;)

[Schmidty]

K. It's going to be a bit.

I might not be so verbose this time because I'm so tired and I work tonight, but if there are any questions about the specifics, let me know.

[Schmidty]

Final votes

6) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Passacaglia (560), Chief RUm (574), Lonestargirl (595), Telle (610), Eaglefan (640)
4) Eaglefan - Path12 (474), Henry296 (545), Alan T (557), Jetsin06 (581)
3) Chief Rum - Mrs.schmidty (536), claphamsa (543), Render (588)
2) Mrs.Schmidty - Kwhit (475), oliegirl (550)
2) PurdueBrad - hoopsguy (523), Racer (579)
1) Render - PurdueBrad (404)

[hoopsguy]

I'll say right now, without having seen results, that if I had made it back in time to move that I would have chosen Clap over Chief for today. I then would have been torn between my need to learn about D1 and my "good guy vibe" that I'm getting from EF - based on my impressions from D1 vote review and his posts.

Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst with this lynch.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - I'm not sure where I would have gone if I had to pick between Chief and EF, but I would have gone Clap in the event all three were equally viable options with my vote.

Re-reading my last post just didn't seem as clear as it was when I initially thought about this.

[Schmidty]

With the vicious and mob-like killing of mccolins yesterday, your blood and adrenaline is still pumping, clouding your sense of reason and remorse.

The same bickering and scheming goes on, as it did yesterday. This time, the lot of you (save a few who doubt it) seem a bit more sure that the person you believe is your in your grasp -Claphamsa. Without hesitancy, you jump the screaming, horrified young man, and rip him to shreds.

After the blood-lust lulls to a simple numb fury, you begin searching him. The only things you find other than gore, are a pocket protector, an expensive calculator watch, some poems that it appears he never got a chance to send to his apparent girlfriend, and few a advanced calculus books.

Claphamsa was a simple Mathematics Major.

[hoopsguy]

Question for the people who didn't explore the PurdueBrad vs EagleFan option for today - did you think that both were villagers? That there was better information available with other candidates?

Other than the wolves or the seer, I'm not sure how someone could feel overwhelmingly convinced about the guilt/innocence of these guys but I would be interested in hearing impressions. I've made my impressions on PB/EF pretty clear today, I think.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

/Mourn Clap

I live! haha j/k Just egging on Olie and Kwhit :p

[Mrs. Schmidty]

Question for the people who didn't explore the PurdueBrad vs EagleFan option for today - did you think that both were villagers? That there was better information available with other candidates?



All I have to go on really today is my gut since I don't know how to really read ya'll yet. I am confident still in my vote for Chief. I'm open to other ideas as well, but didn't see a reason to move my vote.

[claphamsa]

chief got me :( crap!

[claphamsa]

go stoodents!

[Alan T]

Question for the people who didn't explore the PurdueBrad vs EagleFan option for today - did you think that both were villagers? That there was better information available with other candidates?

Other than the wolves or the seer, I'm not sure how someone could feel overwhelmingly convinced about the guilt/innocence of these guys but I would be interested in hearing impressions. I've made my impressions on PB/EF pretty clear today, I think.

I couldn't have said it better myself.. but I'm not giving you a pass here Hoops. You fully had the chance to help press this issue and chose not to based on your gut. So now we have gone two days and still have no better guess on where to go than we did to start the game. Until we can start figuring out what has been going on behind the scenes, we will continue to stumble around blindly.

Here is to hoping that night results are kinder for us.

[Telle]

I think PurdueBrad and EagleFan are more likely to be villagers than wolves.

I'm more curious now about the people who had votes on low-vote-getters.

[EagleFan]

Not exactly a great result. Maybe we'll get a block tonight. Going to sign off for a while since we don;t know when the night results will be up.

Damn!!! Just realized what time it is, I'll have to wait on getting The Show until tomorrow I guess. Not enough time to get to the store.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I accept any criticisms that come my way for not moving my vote when I had the chance at 8:15. That said, I already offered that I would have moved it to Clap - which would have been wrong.

[Alan T]

Alan, I accept any criticisms that come my way for not moving my vote when I had the chance at 8:15. That said, I already offered that I would have moved it to Clap - which would have been wrong.


How can you criticize others not trying to get the information out of day 1 if you choose to not to either? That is what my comment is in regards to moreso than where you put your vote. I agree with your comment as I have been saying we need to understand day 1 better all weekend, but you just seem to be a bit hypocritical about it.

[hoopsguy]

I don't see it that way. I put my vote on the person from D1 that I thought was the "most likely wolf". Vote was 4-4-4-2 and I was going to be unavailable for the last 45 minutes. It seemed very within the realm of possibility that people would still put votes on PB if he had two, but much less likely if he had one vote and we now had a 5-4-4 scenario.

I'm not trying to hammer anyone about their vote, but I am asking the question "what was more compelling for the other candidates". I don't see this as inconsistent.

[hoopsguy]

The option I had was to put my vote on EagleFan - that would have been more likely to help me learn about D1. I get that. If EagleFan ends up being a wolf then I'm going to look exceedingly bad for not doing this. Also understood and accepted.

I didn't think it was the right call at the time. I still don't (and I have zero inside information on this), but pursuing EF makes more sense to me as a thought process than a vote for either Chief Rum or Clap today.

[Alan T]

The option I had was to put my vote on EagleFan - that would have been more likely to help me learn about D1. I get that. If EagleFan ends up being a wolf then I'm going to look exceedingly bad for not doing this. Also understood and accepted.

I didn't think it was the right call at the time. I still don't (and I have zero inside information on this), but pursuing EF makes more sense to me as a thought process than a vote for either Chief Rum or Clap today.

I still have yet to understand at all the reasoning behind the Chief vote. Maybe I overvalue his analysis in these games compared to other people, but he is someone that I hope is on my side each game, and at least until I have proof or even a gut feeling the other way, I give him some room to work. Same thing I say about you or a few others that play the game in a logical/analytical approach.

I could see some of the reasons why people voted for Claphamsa, so don't fault those voters quite as much. I do think it was a bit shortsighted or based on too much emotion rather than a path of trying to narrow down future options for lynch. I think there is a little we can learn about Claphamsa, and I feel with him turning up good makes me feel even a bit more comfortable about PurdueBrad at this point.

That of course doesn't really change my direction or my gut feeling for tommorrow as of now though. I still think we need to figure out day 1 votes.

[hoopsguy]

I agree on Clap = good helping make a better case for PB.

If we are giving Chief room to work, I'm hoping he will offer his impressions on today. For starters, what he makes of the run on him today and why he kept his vote on Clap down the stretch rather than switching to EF. Based on his posts, he seemed to understand the reasons for wanting to look at D1 candidates. I would expect him to be able to put aside a "he voted for me!" argument more often than not on D2.

[Chief Rum]

chief got me :( crap!

You got yourself. If you had actually come up with a reason or worked harder to find an actual wolf, maybe we would have caught that wolf instead of wasting a day on you and me. Congratulations. :rolleyes:

[PurdueBrad]

Thanks to Path, Hoops in particular for the "pick your head up" talk. I'm back and frankly, a couple days off wasn't so bad. I saw that Alan referred to my RendeR vote as a throw-away but it was the first one out there so I don't think it was.

I'm the physics major, simple (well, not so simple) but that's my role. If you still think I'm bad, go ahead and make the push. I've caught up but want to re-read a couple comments and see where I want to go from there.

[Chief Rum]

How can you criticize others not trying to get the information out of day 1 if you choose to not to either? That is what my comment is in regards to moreso than where you put your vote. I agree with your comment as I have been saying we need to understand day 1 better all weekend, but you just seem to be a bit hypocritical about it.

This is more like it. hoops and Alan should always be gunning after each other. All is right with the world.

[hoopsguy]

If we are both left around for long enough, it will happen. Regardless of sides.

[hoopsguy]

Welcome back, PB. I would be interested in your thoughts on the past couple of days as well. From your villager perspective, knowing that you and McCollins were both villagers, do you believe that EF is a wolf?

Based on that answer, how do you interpret the last two days?

[Alan T]

I'm not sure why people are eager to see Hoops and I fight. It really isn't something that I set out to do each game that I play with him. I personally think he is an excellent player regardless of which side he is on, which is why he scares me to death until I feel more comfortable about his role in this game.

Most of our past distrust probably stems from him and I being on opposite sides for something like our first 8 games we played together, and then when we finally were on the same side I probably had the worst game I've ever played, leading him to not wanting to be on the same side as me any more.

I don't by any means have Hoops as one of my top suspects in this game right now, I just would like to understand why he made some moves in this game a bit better. I have a huge need to try to feel trust for Hoops if possible, and until I can do so he makes me nervous. By no means do I think or want him to be an early lynch choice though ever unless I have some reason for it (proof or gut or otherwise)

[hoopsguy]

Alan, that "worst game you ever played" is far enough in the past that I don't sweat it much at all.

That said, I do worry about us dominating conversation and providing cover for the remaining players. I intentionally took some time away from the thread over the weekend to attempt to avoid that phenomenon. I wasn't all that pleased with the results ... does that make me a WW control freak?

[Chief Rum]

I agree on Clap = good helping make a better case for PB.

If we are giving Chief room to work, I'm hoping he will offer his impressions on today. For starters, what he makes of the run on him today and why he kept his vote on Clap down the stretch rather than switching to EF. Based on his posts, he seemed to understand the reasons for wanting to look at D1 candidates. I would expect him to be able to put aside a "he voted for me!" argument more often than not on D2.

I actually talked a little about this before. I felt clap's move was the most suspicious move made, and I viewed that as an indictment on both clap and EF. For me, at that point, it made little difference which was lynched, but clap was gunning after me, which I knew to be a wrong move. So I decided he was the more dangerous wolf now, and that EF would be the one we need to look at tomorrow, or maybe our seer can scan him tonight.

Of course, clap turned out to be a misguided villager, so this line of thinking is rather poor now. I'll take whatever flak for that I deserve. But that's what I was thinking when I put that vote up. I mean, clap's reasoning for voting me was virtually nothing, so as to be like a driveby. That and being a second vote pinged my wolfdar strongly, above and beyond the fact that I was the target.

As for the other voters on me, I gave Mrs. Schmidty the new player's benefit of the doubt, but she's made some suspicious moves that have to be looked at at some point. She isn't first on my list, but she's climbing.

Render also had a rather trumped up vote on me, not really giving much of a reason. In fact, that's really odd. Just about all of them had some unfounded reason or none at all. Hard to really defend yourself against that.

EF voted for me as a revenge vote and for self-preservation and switched off of me for self-preservation. In and of themselves, I don't think those votes say as much about his allegiance as the run to save him, or the Day 1 events.

In fact, clap's studentness and EF's switch if anything suggests further that we need to go back to exploring him. Knowing his allegiance for sure will help us tremendously in understanding both of these lynches I think.

As for the run on me, if EF is a wolf, I think it was wolf-motivated. Just fortunately for the wolves, it was a student that took up the mantle so strongly (clap). So I would look at Mrs. Schmidty and Render then. But I would look at EF first.

[PurdueBrad]

Welcome back, PB. I would be interested in your thoughts on the past couple of days as well. From your villager perspective, knowing that you and McCollins were both villagers, do you believe that EF is a wolf?

Based on that answer, how do you interpret the last two days?

TY Hoops. I'm slightly embarrassed at how rough I took my misplay but wtf, at least I care about the outcome.

First, I believe that something Telle said earlier. I don't mean this in a bad way, but I've never really found myself agreeing (or I guess disagreeing) with Telle before, but we may really need to start looking at the outlying votes. It is looking much more likely that we haven't had a wolf on the block (that only assumes that you believe that I'm a villager). If we haven't been close to a wolf, then the wolves have had no need to make any obvious moves. This won't be popular and will likely drive some votes on me but I'm going to want to see at least one, if not both candidates be people that have not been on the block yet.

As for Eaglefan, I definitely need to go back over the voting trends. From what I've seen though, there has not be a clear cut save effort for anybody. I would've argued that the attempt to put me up as a third party candidate may have been just that but I'm probably wrong.

I do find it curious the people that left votes on me day one then decided not to go after me day two. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing but I'll want to see where their votes migrated to.

Still looking at a couple things, including a couple comments that rubbed me 'oddly.'

[path12]

I don't have a reason to be suspicious of PurdueBrad anymore. He ended up being the sorcerer in that game, not a villager so Brad's more aggressive play doesn't seem so odd now.

I probably won't keep my vote on Path. However, I'm a little suspicious of him, no one else has mentioned his name, so I thought I'd suggest him and also vote for him. Mainly, I'd like to hear more from him.

Well, I'm back now though I'm just reading through pretty quickly to catch up. What would you like to hear from me? The comment about the pre-med student was speculation -- trying to figure out ways to explain the role that might cast light on the bad guy's abilities. I've got no problem with you voting me though, it'll make me look closer at you, but I think that's human nature.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

I'm climbing Chief's list...I think I get more enjoyment out of that than I should. I'm not a wolf and yet I feel like being sneaky like one for the mere enjoyment of watching everyone tripping over themselves. I know with practice I'll learn to use my "filter" more as far as what I type, but just as in real life I tend to say what I'm thinking when I'm thinking it. I'll try adapting more of a group survival mentality, us against the wolves, as opposed to my current "all for themsleves" way of approaching things. I just don't trust anyone.

*game face on*

[Racer]

Well, I'm back now though I'm just reading through pretty quickly to catch up. What would you like to hear from me? The comment about the pre-med student was speculation -- trying to figure out ways to explain the role that might cast light on the bad guy's abilities. I've got no problem with you voting me though, it'll make me look closer at you, but I think that's human nature.

Mainly, I was wanted to hear your rationale behind that post (which you just did) and also share any thoughts you had about other players.

[path12]

OK, looks like a three way tie with 4 - Eagle, Chief, Clap.

I really think PB is more likely than Eagle to be a wolf from D1. I don't have terribly strong feelings on the other two players so far.

If I move my vote from PB then he drops to one, and there is little chance he'll pick up the votes he needs to be the lynch candidate. So I'm sticking where I'm at and will accept any questioning of it that arises later in the game.

Off to mow.

Interesting choice by you, hoops. Still catching up so I don't know how the vote ends up, but right now there are three people with four votes in the lead, the guy you're on only has two..........it seems really unlikely that a) anyone in the top three is going to move to your guy to get him in the lead; b) since you're gone mowing the lawn you're not here to argue the case against PB and c) since it's a Father's Day weekend there likely won't be enough folks even around to start a run.

So, what you really did is decide not to make a decision and back away from the vote. That's fine (or not, I haven't decided yet) -- but the reason you gave above don't hunt.

[Passacaglia]

7) Mccollins - Jetsin06 (142), Telle (176), oliegirl (187), henry296 (191), Kwhit (284), Chief Rum (287), Eaglefan (316)

6) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Passacaglia (560), Chief RUm (574), Lonestargirl (595), Telle (610), Eaglefan (640)

Looks like CR, EF, and Telle (in alphabetical order) are our double-villager killers.

[path12]

bde=bad

I don't think you need to clarify. We all understand Clapese by now. Don't take that wrong, I <3 Clap.

[hoopsguy]

Interesting choice by you, hoops. Still catching up so I don't know how the vote ends up, but right now there are three people with four votes in the lead, the guy you're on only has two..........it seems really unlikely that a) anyone in the top three is going to move to your guy to get him in the lead; b) since you're gone mowing the lawn you're not here to argue the case against PB and c) since it's a Father's Day weekend there likely won't be enough folks even around to start a run.

So, what you really did is decide not to make a decision and back away from the vote. That's fine (or not, I haven't decided yet) -- but the reason you gave above don't hunt.

Really unlikely that all 12 people on the 3 leaders don't move their vote? I don't think that is a fair statement, whether or not it worked out that way or not. Did you see just how much movement there was on Day 1?

We're talking about a two vote gap. It doesn't take some Herculean effort to move the candidate I thought was the right vote into the mix.

[path12]

go stoodents!

If I didn't feel sort of attached to my sig this would be it instead.

[hoopsguy]

I want to run a Claphamsa/Lathum spelling bee.

[path12]

That said, I do worry about us dominating conversation and providing cover for the remaining players. I intentionally took some time away from the thread over the weekend to attempt to avoid that phenomenon. I wasn't all that pleased with the results ... does that make me a WW control freak?

That's my only fear with the "hoops/Alan" thing, which actually I think gets overblown to an extent. Fact is, our first instinct is to take a look at the player we're most afraid of. I'm much more suspicious seeing more experienced players going after less experienced players right off the bat, generally.

[path12]

Dola, what I actually wanted to say before getting distracted was that I think that weekends are becoming steadily slower as summer hits. It's nice to come back and only have four pages to go through instead of fourteen!

[hoopsguy]

Clearly slow if you are able to squeeze in a dola within 4 minutes!

[path12]

Really unlikely that all 12 people on the 3 leaders don't move their vote? I don't think that is a fair statement, whether or not it worked out that way or not. Did you see just how much movement there was on Day 1?

We're talking about a two vote gap. It doesn't take some Herculean effort to move the candidate I thought was the right vote into the mix.

Not on a weekend, and not if you're away and not arguing the case. I stand by my opinion.

[path12]

Clearly slow if you are able to squeeze in a dola within 4 minutes!

:D

[path12]

Random thoughts.

I won't be voting Eaglefan tomorrow, and I'm not even really suspicious of him right now, but definitely think he is worth a scan.

I also would have moved onto Clap if I'd been around.

Don't even begin to understand the Purdue Brad argument.

I agree with Chief about Mrs. Schmidty; and also agree with him that it was really weird that nearly everyone who voted him had no clear reason for doing so. It was all 'well, guess I'll just go here for now'. I think those voters are worth taking a look at.

There's other odd things that I don't really have a grasp on how to describe right now, so that can wait until later. I will say that it is confusing to me when a game is described as off track on day 2......on one hand, it's day 2. On the other hand, how would one know?

[EagleFan]

Looks like CR, EF, and Telle (in alphabetical order) are our double-villager killers.

Just a quick defense of my votes being on there. They were both made as late self defense votes as I was on the chopping block. Taking things out of context is not a good thing (and to be honest that's usually a tactic I tried in games when I was a wolf, though I shouldn't out my wolf 'tell' but I always sucked as one anyway).

That is good food for thought and there is something to be reviewed a bit more.

[Chief Rum]

All right, I work my two jobs tomorrow, and I am not sure I will be able to come on. Probably not (and if I can it will be a quick lunch break visit or something like that).

So I am putting in a vote now and I hope Schmidty will allow it. I PM'd him as well.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

I said that I think we learn a lot from an EF lynch, and I still believe that. I think he's a wolf, and someone tried to protect him today by making me a target. Even if that didn't happen, he's a guy who if we find out his allegiance, we might get more out of the hash of the first two votes we have made.

If and only if EF is killed by the wolves for Night Two...

VOTE MRS. SCHMIDTY (conditional)

I don't know if that will be allowed, but I have to put it out there in case EF gets killed by the wolves. I don't see why they would do that, but just in case.

See you guys tomorrow (probably late tomorrow).

[Schmidty]

All right, I work my two jobs tomorrow, and I am not sure I will be able to come on. Probably not (and if I can it will be a quick lunch break visit or something like that).

So I am putting in a vote now and I hope Schmidty will allow it. I PM'd him as well.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

I said that I think we learn a lot from an EF lynch, and I still believe that. I think he's a wolf, and someone tried to protect him today by making me a target. Even if that didn't happen, he's a guy who if we find out his allegiance, we might get more out of the hash of the first two votes we have made.

If and only if EF is killed by the wolves for Night Two...

VOTE MRS. SCHMIDTY (conditional)

I don't know if that will be allowed, but I have to put it out there in case EF gets killed by the wolves. I don't see why they would do that, but just in case.

See you guys tomorrow (probably late tomorrow).

Since I totally understand that there's nothing that can be done about certain work-issues, I'll allow this.

[Passacaglia]

Just a quick defense of my votes being on there. They were both made as late self defense votes as I was on the chopping block. Taking things out of context is not a good thing (and to be honest that's usually a tactic I tried in games when I was a wolf, though I shouldn't out my wolf 'tell' but I always sucked as one anyway).

That is good food for thought and there is something to be reviewed a bit more.

Are you talking about me, taking something out of context? I think you're implying way more into my post than was there.

[Passacaglia]

inferring, not implying -- my bad

[Schmidty]

Deadline.

Write-up shortly.

[Schmidty]

Another night has passed, and you actually see some rays of sunshine streaming through the unbreakable windows, but it does little to lighten the mood after the events of the past two days.

After the death of the Jackal the first night, you fear the worst. Grimly, you search the Library, but find no bodies. You do, however, find a large pool of fresh blood in the basement.

Confused panic ensues. What the hell is going on?

Day 3 has begun. The deadline is at 9 p.m. EST

[hoopsguy]

Conversion? Bodyguard block?

In unrelated news, we've got a wolf. I'm not going to try and finesse this, but just put the vote out there and hope that people fall in line. I'll accept any and all consequences for this being a bad lynch, but it won't be.

VOTE ALAN T

[hoopsguy]

Jets, if you want to be making a good vote don't delay. Get in line to vote Alan.

[Alan T]

Conversion? Bodyguard block?

In unrelated news, we've got a wolf. I'm not going to try and finesse this, but just put the vote out there and hope that people fall in line. I'll accept any and all consequences for this being a bad lynch, but it won't be.

VOTE ALAN T

Well, not even sure how to respond to this other than say it is false. Unfortunately for me a challenge like this is pretty tough to defend against. I'm a wolf just because Hoops says so?

I did have something pretty odd that I received a PM about last night, and to no suprise it came from the person who was probably one of my most distrusted people on my list. I assume it was some form of mental attack that I fought off. Oddly enough, it wasn't Hoopsguy who did it, but instead it was Racer. My PM said that he knows that I knew he tried to invade my thoughts as well.

So hoopsguy, would you like to explain how Racer comes after me and then suddenly you know I am a wolf? Was this an attempt to try to discredit me before I released my information this morning to try to buy more time for Racer? I'm not sure what you gain from this move as the obvious play today would be for people to lynch me, find out that I am good and then kill you and Racer in order. Unless you have some other mechanism that I am unaware of in place, this doesn't seem like a break even play for you.

So color me very intrigued.

[Telle]

Conversion? Bodyguard block?

In unrelated news, we've got a wolf. I'm not going to try and finesse this, but just put the vote out there and hope that people fall in line. I'll accept any and all consequences for this being a bad lynch, but it won't be.

VOTE ALAN T

Why aren't you telling us how you know? Assuming this isn't a super-ballsy wolf play, you've already put yourself out there as a potential seer and thus probably the next wolf target. Might as well give us all information you know now.

[hoopsguy]

You are right, that wouldn't be a break-even trade for me.

If you look back at your posts in the game where you suggested that Racer was bad you will notice I didn't even respond to them. That is because I knew he was good. All that served to do was increase my suspicion of you.

I really don't want to provide a whole heck of a lot of information about how I know Racer is good or that you are a wolf. By providing that in the thread it will give the wolves a better roadmap on how to proceed. Realistically, that is about the most you can hope for coming out of today. And I don't want you to get even that smaller victory.

I'll color you "busted", along with intrigued.

[hoopsguy]

Why aren't you telling us how you know? Assuming this isn't a super-ballsy wolf play, you've already put yourself out there as a potential seer and thus probably the next wolf target. Might as well give us all information you know now.

Because by putting it out there it is available for the wolves as well. Right now I'm guessing they are confused about the direction this took ... just look at Alan's reply.

If I spill the beans on how this sorts out, then the wolves have a much better plan of attack for the next couple of nights.

I know I'm going to be a wolf target ... better that than a lynch target. Even better to get the wolf first, then be the wolf target.

I really don't care how this shakes down in terms of the Q&A, just make sure that the votes end up on Alan today.

[Alan T]

You are right, that wouldn't be a break-even trade for me.

If you look back at your posts in the game where you suggested that Racer was bad you will notice I didn't even respond to them. That is because I knew he was good. All that served to do was increase my suspicion of you.

I really don't want to provide a whole heck of a lot of information about how I know Racer is good or that you are a wolf. By providing that in the thread it will give the wolves a better roadmap on how to proceed. Realistically, that is about the most you can hope for coming out of today. And I don't want you to get even that smaller victory.

I'll color you "busted", along with intrigued.


But this logic doesn't hold up at all Hoops. If I am bad and you are good as you supposedly suggest then by my outing Racer's attack on me last night you know that I already know he did that, then suddenly with your "reveal" you know that I am on to both of you. So why try to hide that, since if I am bad, I already would know of the tie?

The least you could do is come up with some story to present to the group to how this tie between you and Racer exists. Or are we to believe that you are the seer with some magical brother connection to Racer who also has a night kill power the same night that there magically is no night kill?

For whatever it is worth, I am a student of the Entomology field.. but I don't really have any huge reason to fight a lynch today as either today we lynch Hoops or my death leads to two wolves dying tommorrow.. I'm more just looking forward to the explanation of how you magically know each other...


Or did you just assume that I wouldn't have known it was Racer who attacked me and took a gamble on it?

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I'm clearly not trying to make a losing play today. It obviously would be a losing play if I'm a wolf along with Racer. I respect your villager game, but not THAT MUCH.

I'm only going to offer the explanations on this if I'm sufficiently pressed by the field to do so. I would appreciate it if there was some level of trust extended so we can get a lynch without divulging too much to the wolves. They are already going to have a 2+ man COT to attack tonight when the results come in. I would like to avoid spelling out the roles of the players that will be trusted.

[Alan T]

I'm probably going to suprise Hoopsguy here and mess up his plan.. but he is obviously trying to protect Racer for some reason.

I have seen Hoopsguy in enough games as a wolf that he is reluctantly agreeable enough to take a bullet for the team as he often is an early seer scan, so now that Racer was busted, Hoopsguy takes the gamble that I didn't know who actually failed to attack me and tries to protect Racer by supposedly outing me. So I'm not going after Hoopsguy with today's vote obviously there is some reason he doesn't want Racer to die before him.

Vote Racer

[Telle]

So I'm guessing this is a little more complicated than my assumption that you're the seer? Then yeah, keep the details to yourself.

Although.. what if Alan is an important villager role and the wolves have a seer and found out?

I'll withhold my vote until more people chime in today.. but most likely my vote will be on Alan.

[Passacaglia]

But this logic doesn't hold up at all Hoops. If I am bad and you are good as you supposedly suggest then by my outing Racer's attack on me last night you know that I already know he did that, then suddenly with your "reveal" you know that I am on to both of you. So why try to hide that, since if I am bad, I already would know of the tie?

The least you could do is come up with some story to present to the group to how this tie between you and Racer exists. Or are we to believe that you are the seer with some magical brother connection to Racer who also has a night kill power the same night that there magically is no night kill?

For whatever it is worth, I am a student of the Entomology field.. but I don't really have any huge reason to fight a lynch today as either today we lynch Hoops or my death leads to two wolves dying tommorrow.. I'm more just looking forward to the explanation of how you magically know each other...


Or did you just assume that I wouldn't have known it was Racer who attacked me and took a gamble on it?

Why would he do that? If they're both wolves, and hoops knew something was up, and Racer made the attack, why wouldn't they just have Racer make the claim?

[hoopsguy]

So far the people who have been in the thead but not followed with a vote are Jets, Telle, and Olie.

If you aren't going to take my word on this, then you should at least engage me in conversation to help make a decision. This one is pretty straight-forward. Either I'm providing 100% accurate information on Alan, or I'm not. Thus you should either vote with me or against me. There is no middle ground, although I'm guessing Alan would be just fine with someone finding middle ground.

[Alan T]

Why would he do that? If they're both wolves, and hoops knew something was up, and Racer made the attack, why wouldn't they just have Racer make the claim?


Thats exactly the reason I am voting for Racer and not Hoops after his false claim. I would love the answer to that question as well. I am assuming they didn't realize that I would know who attacked me.

[Alan T]

So far the people who have been in the thead but not followed with a vote are Jets, Telle, and Olie.

If you aren't going to take my word on this, then you should at least engage me in conversation to help make a decision. This one is pretty straight-forward. Either I'm providing 100% accurate information on Alan, or I'm not. Thus you should either vote with me or against me. There is no middle ground, although I'm guessing Alan would be just fine with someone finding middle ground.

See, I disagree fully.. That is exactly what you want people to do.. either vote for me or vote for you.. I don't know why you are protecting Racer, but I would encourage people to either vote for me or vote for Racer.

[hoopsguy]

So I'm guessing this is a little more complicated than my assumption that you're the seer? Then yeah, keep the details to yourself.

Although.. what if Alan is an important villager role and the wolves have a seer and found out?

I'll withhold my vote until more people chime in today.. but most likely my vote will be on Alan.

This is not the simplest explanation.

[hoopsguy]

So far the people who have been in the thead but not followed with a vote are Jets, Telle, and Olie.

If you aren't going to take my word on this, then you should at least engage me in conversation to help make a decision. This one is pretty straight-forward. Either I'm providing 100% accurate information on Alan, or I'm not. Thus you should either vote with me or against me. There is no middle ground, although I'm guessing Alan would be just fine with someone finding middle ground.

And Alan is voting Racer, looking to establish a middle ground.

[hoopsguy]

See, I disagree fully.. That is exactly what you want people to do.. either vote for me or vote for you.. I don't know why you are protecting Racer, but I would encourage people to either vote for me or vote for Racer.

Yes, I want people to vote for the person I know is a wolf. If they don't believe I have this knowledge they should vote for me.

I've been on your end of this a few times, and muddying the waters is an optimal strategy. I'm doing my best to not allow you that option.

[Telle]

This is not the simplest explanation.

Since when is WW simple? :)

[Passacaglia]

Thats exactly the reason I am voting for Racer and not Hoops after his false claim. I would love the answer to that question as well. I am assuming they didn't realize that I would know who attacked me.

This really comes off like you're trying to confuse the issue. You're looking for explanations for something that only you can verify actually happened. Racer, hoops -- should be the same to you if what you say is true. Do you think there's something about your role that would make it so that two wolves would be interested in sacrificing themselves to get rid of it?

[hoopsguy]

Telle, often the simplest answer is the right one. Not always, but you have to work fairly hard to come up with an answer of why two wolves would be willing to lay themselves down to get the villager Alan.

[Telle]

So far the people who have been in the thead but not followed with a vote are Jets, Telle, and Olie.

If you aren't going to take my word on this, then you should at least engage me in conversation to help make a decision. This one is pretty straight-forward. Either I'm providing 100% accurate information on Alan, or I'm not. Thus you should either vote with me or against me. There is no middle ground, although I'm guessing Alan would be just fine with someone finding middle ground.

The problem is that if you are telling the truth, you've already stated that it wouldn't be good for you to divulge more information.. so engaging you in conversation isn't a totally pro-villager move.

But I do agree that it either comes down to you or Alan.

[Alan T]

Yes, I want people to vote for the person I know is a wolf. If they don't believe I have this knowledge they should vote for me.

I've been on your end of this a few times, and muddying the waters is an optimal strategy. I'm doing my best to not allow you that option.

This really comes off like you're trying to confuse the issue. You're looking for explanations for something that only you can verify actually happened. Racer, hoops -- should be the same to you if what you say is true. Do you think there's something about your role that would make it so that two wolves would be interested in sacrificing themselves to get rid of it?


I'm not sure how i am trying to confuse the issue. I had Racer attack me last night, I outed that attack, Hoopsguy has all but acknowledged they have some tie-together but can't come up with a villager role that would have such huge powers that supposedly he and Racer have.

I guess you have to see things from my perspective, I saw my PM, came in the thread to out Racer and suddenly got floored by Hoopsguy's post which I fully did not expect. I actually don't have any problem if people want to lynch me, it will spell out who to go at the next two days just fine. I'm all about taking a logical approach to things, and I'm willing to sacrifice myself to kill two wolves. I just really am going to love to hear the explanation for this one, and I by no means am someone to give up on trying to help the team until I die.

So if Hoops expects me to quietly go down, then he has another thing coming. I'm going to continue to provide my analysis and thoughts until no longer alive to do so.

[hoopsguy]

Also, I would have let Racer fight this battle if he was here at the time that Day 3 began. But I didn't want Alan to set the tone for the clash that was coming only to have Racer on the defensive when Racer is the villager and Alan is the wolf.

Plus I'm pretty sure the wolves are confused by how this has worked out. So if I gave away some potential later advantage to help us secure a wolf now then I'm OK with that.

[claphamsa]

I don't think you need to clarify. We all understand Clapese by now. Don't take that wrong, I <3 Clap.

grrr, its lathumese

[Passacaglia]

The problem is that if you are telling the truth, you've already stated that it wouldn't be good for you to divulge more information.. so engaging you in conversation isn't a totally pro-villager move.

But I do agree that it either comes down to you or Alan.

What sort of things would you like to ask him that you feel like you can't?

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on where to go after you are lynched, revealed a villager, and then see two wolves (me and Racer) lynched next. After those three days are in the books, hopefully with some quick nightfalls to keep the game moving, where do we go after that? Who are the rest of our wolf brothers-in-arms?

I'm all for some good fiction this morning.

[Alan T]

Also, I would have let Racer fight this battle if he was here at the time that Day 3 began. But I didn't want Alan to set the tone for the clash that was coming only to have Racer on the defensive when Racer is the villager and Alan is the wolf.

Plus I'm pretty sure the wolves are confused by how this has worked out. So if I gave away some potential later advantage to help us secure a wolf now then I'm OK with that.


Aren't you the one talking about taking the simpler approach to things? :)

Which is the more simple approach?

1) You and Racer are both wolves, Racer attacked me and failed last night, you (all of the wolves) got the message that it got blocked, and assumed that I didn't know who attacked me which is a normal WW behavior and so you come out with this approach today to try to get rid of me and mess up because I did indeed know Racer attacked me?



or


2) You and Racer are both good guys, who have some mysterious role where one is a seer, and the other has a night kill power, but both can communicate together in the private together.. plus the night you try to attack me and fail there also happens to be no wolf kill that evening..


My suggestion is that #1 is a much simpler choice to believe.. if you are looking for the most simple approach to things.

[hoopsguy]

The problem is that if you are telling the truth, you've already stated that it wouldn't be good for you to divulge more information.. so engaging you in conversation isn't a totally pro-villager move.

But I do agree that it either comes down to you or Alan.

I would like it if you, and the rest of the villagers, would blindly follow me with votes for Alan. That would be ideal for the villagers/students.

But I also understand that you need to try and figure out if you are making a good decision today. So ask whatever questions you feel you need to ask to make a good vote. If the answer is going to help the wolves more than it will the villagers (in my opinion) I'll tell you that.

[Telle]

What sort of things would you like to ask him that you feel like you can't?

I'd want more information on how he knows what he claims he knows. Having those dots connected would definitely help show his villager-ness. But he's already stated that it wouldn't be a good idea for him to do so. Sooo.. I'm not sure where that leaves us.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, your argument is predicated on the idea that both Racer and I are wolves. There is no way that I would give up two wolves (including me) to get one villager in a game where we are up 3-0. Potentially more than that if there was a conversion last night.

That is about as simple as I can make it.

[Racer]

An interesting beginning to the day. I don't really give any specifics to what my role is, but I'm going to take Hoopsguy's word on this one.

Vote Alan T

[Passacaglia]

2) You and Racer are both good guys, who have some mysterious role where one is a seer, and the other has a night kill power, but both can communicate together in the private together.. plus the night you try to attack me and fail there also happens to be no wolf kill that evening..


When did hoops say they could PM? It sounds to me like he just scanned Racer N1 and found him good.

[Alan T]

Alan, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on where to go after you are lynched, revealed a villager, and then see two wolves (me and Racer) lynched next. After those three days are in the books, hopefully with some quick nightfalls to keep the game moving, where do we go after that? Who are the rest of our wolf brothers-in-arms?

I'm all for some good fiction this morning.


Well, I've been after Racer all weekend, so it is not too suprising that he attacked me last night. You killed me off night 1 last time we played together, and you promised to not kill me night 1 this game. I appreciate that you at least waited until night 2 this time around :)

I would fully encourage everyone to look at who Racer was trying to save on day 1, the reason that I originally went after him in the first place. There might not be much there, but Racer did expose himself on day 1 with his moves and I would encourage that to be the first place people look. Obviously the next two days though need to be focused on Racer and you.

[Telle]

When did hoops say they could PM? It sounds to me like he just scanned Racer N1 and found him good.

So then two villagers targeted Alan last night? That seems improbable.

[Alan T]

Alan, your argument is predicated on the idea that both Racer and I are wolves. There is no way that I would give up two wolves (including me) to get one villager in a game where we are up 3-0. Potentially more than that if there was a conversion last night.

That is about as simple as I can make it.

But you didn't give up two wolves. I outed one of you. I bet that caught you by suprise.

[Passacaglia]

I'd want more information on how he knows what he claims he knows. Having those dots connected would definitely help show his villager-ness. But he's already stated that it wouldn't be a good idea for him to do so. Sooo.. I'm not sure where that leaves us.

There's not many ways he would know whether or not someone is a wolf with this kind of certainty. If you feel like you need to know exactly which one of them, hoops is claiming, by all means ask him.

[Alan T]

When did hoops say they could PM? It sounds to me like he just scanned Racer N1 and found him good.


They obviously get the same PM from Schmidty. Hoopsguy already said that he wanted to come out and set the stage before I could about what happened last night since Racer wasn't around. So they obviously have some PM abilities.

That really isn't even a question.

[Passacaglia]

So then two villagers targeted Alan last night? That seems improbable.

That's if you believe Alan, who only said that after hoops outed him.

[Alan T]

Also, I would have let Racer fight this battle if he was here at the time that Day 3 began. But I didn't want Alan to set the tone for the clash that was coming only to have Racer on the defensive when Racer is the villager and Alan is the wolf.

Plus I'm pretty sure the wolves are confused by how this has worked out. So if I gave away some potential later advantage to help us secure a wolf now then I'm OK with that.

This is what I reference in my last post. Hoopsguy obviously gets the results for Racer's night actions. I would love anyone to provide me any kind of villager role that works that way. :)

[Telle]

There's not many ways he would know whether or not someone is a wolf with this kind of certainty. If you feel like you need to know exactly which one of them, hoops is claiming, by all means ask him.

At this point, I'm feeling more confidant that hoops is the villager than Alan. So I don't want to ask him to divulge that information yet. But I want to wait to see what other people have to say and if we have any more revelations today before putting my vote in on Alan. And if nobody can further corroborate either story than I'll most likely vote for Alan.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I won't quote PMs but it doesn't surprise me in the least that you knew about Racer. There was zero surprise for me on that point.

In fact, the knowledge that you (a wolf) knew that Racer (a villager) had "attacked" you last night was what pushed me towards outing you immediately this morning. Because I knew that you could identify him, and almost certainly his role.

But you don't know at all what I'm up to here, and that has to be driving you nuts as you try to spin your way out of this.

[Alan T]

That's if you believe Alan, who only said that after hoops outed him.


Well Hoops's "outing" of me happened pretty much right after lynch results were posted. Kind of hard for me to have predicted he was going to do that post when my only interaction last night was with Racer.

[Passacaglia]

Also, I would have let Racer fight this battle if he was here at the time that Day 3 began. But I didn't want Alan to set the tone for the clash that was coming only to have Racer on the defensive when Racer is the villager and Alan is the wolf.

Plus I'm pretty sure the wolves are confused by how this has worked out. So if I gave away some potential later advantage to help us secure a wolf now then I'm OK with that.

Alan, here's what hoops said. I assume he was saying that, once you accused Racer, he thought about letting Racer fight it himself. Put but yourself in hoops's situation -- he scans Racer good, then you bad. If you go after Racer, doesn't it make sense for hoops to say something?

[Alan T]

Alan, I won't quote PMs but it doesn't surprise me in the least that you knew about Racer. There was zero surprise for me on that point.

In fact, the knowledge that you (a wolf) knew that Racer (a villager) had "attacked" you last night was what pushed me towards outing you immediately this morning. Because I knew that you could identify him, and almost certainly his role.

But you don't know at all what I'm up to here, and that has to be driving you nuts as you try to spin your way out of this.

I am pretty sure that I know exactly what is going on, and your lack of response to my guess earlier was pretty much all of the confirmation that I needed. I just am hoping at some point once I die, you give a better explanation than "people need to blindly follow what you say even if it makes no sense!"

[Passacaglia]

Well Hoops's "outing" of me happened pretty much right after lynch results were posted. Kind of hard for me to have predicted he was going to do that post when my only interaction last night was with Racer.

I'm not saying you should have predicted hoops was going to say that -- I'm saying that once he did, the value of what you have to say drops a ton.

[Alan T]

Alan, here's what hoops said. I assume he was saying that, once you accused Racer, he thought about letting Racer fight it himself. Put but yourself in hoops's situation -- he scans Racer good, then you bad. If you go after Racer, doesn't it make sense for hoops to say something?

You might want to read this then:

Alan, I won't quote PMs but it doesn't surprise me in the least that you knew about Racer. There was zero surprise for me on that point.

In fact, the knowledge that you (a wolf) knew that Racer (a villager) had "attacked" you last night was what pushed me towards outing you immediately this morning. Because I knew that you could identify him, and almost certainly his role.

But you don't know at all what I'm up to here, and that has to be driving you nuts as you try to spin your way out of this.


Because you seem way too eager to support hoops without even understanding what his story is :)

[Alan T]

I'm not saying you should have predicted hoops was going to say that -- I'm saying that once he did, the value of what you have to say drops a ton.


If that is what you want to present to the rest of the class, then so be it. I however think there is alot of value here that I was able to present exactly what happened last night, and left Hoops without a real good explanation for it , or one that he didn't have on the fly, but I am sure he will have an excuse by tommorrow when people come after him.

[RendeR]

So far the people who have been in the thead but not followed with a vote are Jets, Telle, and Olie.

If you aren't going to take my word on this, then you should at least engage me in conversation to help make a decision. This one is pretty straight-forward. Either I'm providing 100% accurate information on Alan, or I'm not. Thus you should either vote with me or against me. There is no middle ground, although I'm guessing Alan would be just fine with someone finding middle ground.

See now this to me sets off my radar. This is a snake oil salesman telling you "buy this or DIE!" you're giving us a black and white scenario and trying your best to convince us that you must be right nwith no actual evidence to back it up.

See, I disagree fully.. That is exactly what you want people to do.. either vote for me or vote for you.. I don't know why you are protecting Racer, but I would encourage people to either vote for me or vote for Racer.

Indeed, he's going over the top here to protect racer. Without any real reasoning as to why we should ignore racer altogether.

And Alan is voting Racer, looking to establish a middle ground.

Yes, I want people to vote for the person I know is a wolf. If they don't believe I have this knowledge they should vote for me.

I've been on your end of this a few times, and muddying the waters is an optimal strategy. I'm doing my best to not allow you that option.

These two statements bother me. We have no evidence with which to trust YOU, and Alan has at least oferred up that he was attacked by racer. While this could indeed be a fake, it seems to me a really bad play because it immediately get alan killed tomorrow if we lynch racer and he turns up good today. Nothing is ever black and white and you trying to make it out that it must be screams *WARNING* to me.

What sort of things would you like to ask him that you feel like you can't?

Basically give us some supporting evidence that we could possibly trust at this point, but he's already said he can't or doesn't want to do that, so here we are, standing at the point of another Hoops loaded gun, "trust me or else"

I'm not buying it.



VOTE RACER

[Passacaglia]

You might want to read this then:




Because you seem way too eager to support hoops without even understanding what his story is :)

My post was a whole one minute after his post. Obviously I hadn't read it when I posted mine.

[hoopsguy]

Pass seems to understand that I'm a pretty rational player, and that I don't make 2-1 trades as a wolf, pretty much ever.

I will make 1-1 trades as a villager when required to do so, but we aren't required to do so if we lynch Alan first. It then comes down to which member of the COT do the wolves go after versus who does the bodyguard protect. But that is getting ahead of myself, since the only person to actually cast a vote so far is Racer who is the only other person who 100% knows without a doubt that Alan is a wolf.

[Alan T]

My post was a whole one minute after his post. Obviously I hadn't read it when I posted mine.


That's ok. I took a step back in between my last post and now to remember that no one other than me and the wolves have any idea of what is going on. It is obvious to me that they share PMs, and such but I can understand where no one else understands where to go.

Really though, I don't know if it matters which way you all vote today. I would love for people to go straight after Racer and hopefully his death would buy me enough trust for a while.. but I fully understand if people feel the need to kill me first to make sure Hoops is lying.

[hoopsguy]

Render, I really wish you were not following Alan's lead. Because you are the other person that I know to be a villager. So I know that you are wrong with good intentions, rather than trying to aid a fellow wolf.

[Alan T]

Pass seems to understand that I'm a pretty rational player, and that I don't make 2-1 trades as a wolf, pretty much ever.

I will make 1-1 trades as a villager when required to do so, but we aren't required to do so if we lynch Alan first. It then comes down to which member of the COT do the wolves go after versus who does the bodyguard protect. But that is getting ahead of myself, since the only person to actually cast a vote so far is Racer who is the only other person who 100% knows without a doubt that Alan is a wolf.

See this is where Hoops is actually doing what he originally said I would do and try to muddy the waters some. You didn't make a 2-1 trade off, you thought you were doing a 1-1 trade and I'm pretty sure based on last night's failed attack why you are trying to do so. See, the thing that caught you by suprise is not only did I survive the attack but I also knew my attacker.

So no one be fooled about Hoops's supposed 2 for 1 trade off.. it was me that outed the other wolf, not him.

[Passacaglia]

That's ok. I took a step back in between my last post and now to remember that no one other than me and the wolves have any idea of what is going on. It is obvious to me that they share PMs, and such but I can understand where no one else understands where to go.

Really though, I don't know if it matters which way you all vote today. I would love for people to go straight after Racer and hopefully his death would buy me enough trust for a while.. but I fully understand if people feel the need to kill me first to make sure Hoops is lying.

Yep. The two of you seem to know a TON more about this game than I do, so I'm going to let you two hash it out, and I'll just decide at the end.

[Alan T]

Yep. The two of you seem to know a TON more about this game than I do, so I'm going to let you two hash it out, and I'll just decide at the end.


There really isn't a ton for Hoops and I to hash out. We both know exactly what happened last night. Any uncertainty that Hoops is presenting is pretty much just for show. He took a gamble and messed up is all there is to it.

Now it is just a game of who is the better salesperson trying to get everyone to believe their story.

[hoopsguy]

Render, when Alan says he was "attacked" by Racer it means that the seer (Racer) scanned Alan.

Racer is the seer. If you lynch him then Post #2 (or whatever it is will show "Psychic" next to his name. And you will be sad that you allowed a wolf (Alan), who was caught by TWO villagers, to manipulate you into a bad vote today.

[Passacaglia]

There really isn't a ton for Hoops and I to hash out. We both know exactly what happened last night. Any uncertainty that Hoops is presenting is pretty much just for show. He took a gamble and messed up is all there is to it.

Now it is just a game of who is the better salesperson trying to get everyone to believe their story.

I guess you guys could tell people what you know. But, yeah, as a simple plebe, that might be too crazy of an idea. :p