Werewolf LXXV - Rise of the Great Old Ones -Students Win!!!!

[hoopsguy]

There really isn't a ton for Hoops and I to hash out. We both know exactly what happened last night. Any uncertainty that Hoops is presenting is pretty much just for show. He took a gamble and messed up is all there is to it.

Now it is just a game of who is the better salesperson trying to get everyone to believe their story.

I'll just suggest that anyone who has played a game with me as a wolf, or moderated a game where I was a wolf, would know that this is bull. I don't take reckless gambles when in control of a game. I'll take desperate gambles when behind, but the wolves were firmly in control after two days.

[Alan T]

I'll just suggest that anyone who has played a game with me as a wolf, or moderated a game where I was a wolf, would know that this is bull. I don't take reckless gambles when in control of a game. I'll take desperate gambles when behind, but the wolves were firmly in control after two days.


I am pretty sure the same could be said for me. I wouldn't call your gamble reckless at all though. It isn't a common mechanism for someone to know who failed to kill them when they fail. I actually would call your move a calculated risk that you lost on.

[hoopsguy]

Pass, what more do you want to know?

Racer is the seer.
Alan is a wolf.
I've got another role, as a result I've been privy to Racer's cleared list.

I'm ecstatic that he scanned Alan last night, given that Alan's distrust list yesterday included the seer and the person that the seer scanned on Night 1. It is the person that I would have chosen, given the chance.

[Telle]

I'm getting more confused by the post..

[Passacaglia]

Pass, what more do you want to know?

Racer is the seer.
Alan is a wolf.
I've got another role, as a result I've been privy to Racer's cleared list.

I'm ecstatic that he scanned Alan last night, given that Alan's distrust list yesterday included the seer and the person that the seer scanned on Night 1. It is the person that I would have chosen, given the chance.

And RendeR?

[hoopsguy]

OK, let me make it less confusing.

Cleared: me, Racer (seer), RendeR
Wolf: Alan

It probably wasn't my right to "out" the seer in exchange for a wolf - that should be his call. But Alan is a tough out (he defends himself well) and I wanted to try and avoid him setting the tone by posting before Racer. I've seen how that plays out in other games.

Anyway, lynch Alan and you will see that I'm telling the truth. Then the bodyguard should guard Racer tonight so we pick up one more scan. I probably get removed from the game at that point, but I'm fine with that as the villagers will have begun to re-establish control of the game with one wolf gone, one more scan to come, and the start of a COT that the wolves will struggle to break.

[Axxon]

Right now the only thing I don't understand is how conversion works. I've never played a game where it's included. Is it a wolf role that's not revealed?

If it is then we may have lost somebody last night and beefed up the wolf count but then we'd get it back tomorrow when we lynched hoopsguy.

Otherwise, we do have a free lynch so to speak so taking hoops lead won't hurt us and either way, we get some information where voting anyone else wouldn't do that.

So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now since we can kill him tomorrow if the information is off.

VOTE ALAN T

If there's hidden wolf roles or other roles that could affect this that I am unaware of I'll reconsider. Are there any roles where the wolves can sniff out other peoples roles?

[hoopsguy]

And RendeR?

The Night 1 scan, whose aura was non-threatening.

[hoopsguy]

Conversion = wolves turn a villager to their team.

[Passacaglia]

This all seems like a lot of scans. Plus, you get to know everything that happens to Racer, once he scanned you?

[Axxon]

Conversion = wolves turn a villager to their team.

I understand the meaning but not the mechanism. Does it have to be implicitly stated that it's in play? Is it a specific wolfs role? Stuff like that. What makes us know that it's even possible considering the original post on roles doesn't say it is. That's what I don't know.

[Alan T]

Right now the only thing I don't understand is how conversion works. I've never played a game where it's included. Is it a wolf role that's not revealed?

If it is then we may have lost somebody last night and beefed up the wolf count but then we'd get it back tomorrow when we lynched hoopsguy.

Otherwise, we do have a free lynch so to speak so taking hoops lead won't hurt us and either way, we get some information where voting anyone else wouldn't do that.

So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt right now since we can kill him tomorrow if the information is off.

VOTE ALAN T

If there's hidden wolf roles or other roles that could affect this that I am unaware of I'll reconsider. Are there any roles where the wolves can sniff out other peoples roles?


I think that is what Hoopsguy wants though. I would highly recommend that once I die tonight that you go after Racer tommorrow instead of Hoopsguy

I'm also guessing what Hoops says about Render is likely true that he is a villager. Often wolves will mix in some simblance of truth with their fiction, so he obviously threw Render out as a "trusted" villager in hopes to buy his vote back.

[hoopsguy]

This all seems like a lot of scans. Plus, you get to know everything that happens to Racer, once he scanned you?

N1 scan - RendeR
N2 scan - Alan

Those are the only scans. Racer has not scanned me, but he knows that Alan is a wolf from his scan last night. His vote reflects this.

[Passacaglia]

I understand the meaning but not the mechanism. Does it have to be implicitly stated that it's in play? Is it a specific wolfs role? Stuff like that. What makes us know that it's even possible considering the original post on roles doesn't say it is. That's what I don't know.

All of those options have been in play. There's been powers to convert anyone instead of a night kill which is a PITA since it means someone who's been good can turn someone bad, and basically kills all previous analysis -- and it's more of a PITA when it's not mentioned in the rules. Sometimes there is a player who will convert instead of dying when the wolves awttack him. But I think it depends on the GM -- some GMs like to have the rules not tell you everything, so that you don't know what's coming (and I gotta say, for all the flak I get about my games being confusing, I pride myself on keeping everything going on in the rules).

[Telle]

I understand the meaning but not the mechanism. Does it have to be implicitly stated that it's in play? Is it a specific wolfs role? Stuff like that. What makes us know that it's even possible considering the original post on roles doesn't say it is. That's what I don't know.

That's the fun thing.. you don't know. I've seen various mechanisms, and generally it's not stated in the rules whether or not it's in play.

And I actually had one game where I was half-converted.. now THAT was weird.

[hoopsguy]

I understand the meaning but not the mechanism. Does it have to be implicitly stated that it's in play? Is it a specific wolfs role? Stuff like that. What makes us know that it's even possible considering the original post on roles doesn't say it is. That's what I don't know.

It varies from game to game. The rules for this one don't give us any idea what is in play for the wolves.

When there isn't a night kill, it usually means block by bodygaurd or conversion. The bodyguard should know if he blocked an attack, and may or may not have further information. The rest of us are left to speculate as to what happened last night.

[Axxon]

I think that is what Hoopsguy wants though. I would highly recommend that once I die tonight that you go after Racer tommorrow instead of Hoopsguy

I'm also guessing what Hoops says about Render is likely true that he is a villager. Often wolves will mix in some simblance of truth with their fiction, so he obviously threw Render out as a "trusted" villager in hopes to buy his vote back.

I can see that if you're not a wolf.

What I don't get in any case is why such a strong play this early with no wolves down. I agree that it seems a bit odd to have this much knowledge early but unless we were really close to getting a wolf and it was a forgone conclusion that we would tonight, I just can't understand the play this early.

[Alan T]

It probably wasn't my right to "out" the seer in exchange for a wolf - that should be his call. But Alan is a tough out (he defends himself well) and I wanted to try and avoid him setting the tone by posting before Racer. I've seen how that plays out in other games.


Once again, this post from Hoops was posturing for everyone else. I was the one that outed Racer, not Hoops. If I was a wolf, then Hoops wouldn't be worried about outing the seer as I would already know who it was. This post is purely presentation for everyone else as he tries to go back and tie up any loose ends in his story before people call him out on it.

[Telle]

N1 scan - RendeR
N2 scan - Alan

Those are the only scans. Racer has not scanned me, but he knows that Alan is a wolf from his scan last night. His vote reflects this.

So you're saying that BOTH you and Racer scanned Alan last night?

[hoopsguy]

So far the wolves have avoided coming to Alan's defense with votes - the only vote aligned with him is from a villager.

I don't really care how this plays out - a rout where everyone jumps on board and there is no real vote analysis to be had, or a close one that provides an opportunity for vote analysis - so long as we lynch the wolf (Alan) today.

[Alan T]

So far the wolves have avoided coming to Alan's defense with votes - the only vote aligned with him is from a villager.


I wonder why this is!!? :)

[hoopsguy]

So you're saying that BOTH you and Racer scanned Alan last night?

No, the seer puts in the scans. I did not scan Alan, but I did learn the result of Racer's scan on him. Just as I learned the result of the N1 scan on RendeR.

[hoopsguy]

I wonder why this is!!? :)

We both know the answer. We both know that you are the one "posturing" here. They want to see if you can sway people first - if you are a lost cause, then they aren't going to want to be linked to you later.

[Telle]

We both know the answer. We both know that you are the one "posturing" here. They want to see if you can sway people first - if you are a lost cause, then they aren't going to want to be linked to you later.

Couldn't the same be said for you if you're the wolf?

[hoopsguy]

KWhit, Olie - what are your thoughts on today's revelations?

[Axxon]

So, I'm guessing that we don't know how it works in this game. ;)

Usually I'd hate this idea but honestly , it fits the Mythos so well I kinda like it.

Anyone have any idea what The Bearer of the Necronomicon can be? We know it's linked to the Old Ones and we know that the author was a worshiper of Cthulhu (who has telepathic powers). It wouldn't seem a stretch that the bearer of this book could somehow have a link to a psychic or have some sort of psychic powers himself.

[Alan T]

We both know the answer. We both know that you are the one "posturing" here. They want to see if you can sway people first - if you are a lost cause, then they aren't going to want to be linked to you later.

I don't really see any way for me to sway anyone today. If I was a wolf, I would absolutely make sure that the wolves were the first ones voting for me today. The fact that hasn't happened probably is a telling sign to other vets whom have played with me as a wolf before. They know as well as you do how quickly I would tell people to give up on me and vote for me.

I don't really mind dying at all if it gets us wolves, but the only thing I want to take from today is once I do die and people see the truth, that you kill Racer before Hoopsguy. He obviously is protecting him for some reason that we don't know. My guess is Racer might be a cunning wolf or some other important wolf role.

[hoopsguy]

Couldn't the same be said for you if you're the wolf?

Yep. That is not the case, but I see your point.

[KWhit]

Conversion? Bodyguard block?

In unrelated news, we've got a wolf. I'm not going to try and finesse this, but just put the vote out there and hope that people fall in line. I'll accept any and all consequences for this being a bad lynch, but it won't be.

VOTE ALAN T


Excellent. This is an easy vote then.

Vote AlanT

[Alan T]

I guess the one plus side about today is all of these posts count.

[Passacaglia]

I guess when LSG shows up, she'll feel a lot better, since hoops and Alan aren't on the same side.

[RendeR]

Render, I really wish you were not following Alan's lead. Because you are the other person that I know to be a villager. So I know that you are wrong with good intentions, rather than trying to aid a fellow wolf.


Firstly am ont following Alan's lead. I trust alan about as far as I trust you which is to say not at all.

Secondly, HOW? how do you know I'm good? That 2 people you've supposedly cleared, Racer and now me, NEITHER of which is a typical or obvious choice or scanning if you were the seer. totally off the radar choices which, old friend, you would never make. you MIGHT decide to check me out if I were on the lynch block and you thought maybe I was ok, but I haven't been anywhere near it and neither has racer.

your logic isn't holding up. What happens if another player sides against you? are you going to say you know they're good to? you're not giving us ANY reason to believe you at this stage.

At least what Alan is saying has a plausibility to it. your's is like the smoke at a magic show, its al fluff and no magic.

Work with me here. Convince me to trust you.

[RendeR]

Excellent. This is an easy vote then.

Vote AlanT


Explain yourselkf. Why do you trust this?

[Passacaglia]

So, I'm guessing that we don't know how it works in this game. ;)

Usually I'd hate this idea but honestly , it fits the Mythos so well I kinda like it.

Anyone have any idea what The Bearer of the Necronomicon can be? We know it's linked to the Old Ones and we know that the author was a worshiper of Cthulhu (who has telepathic powers). It wouldn't seem a stretch that the bearer of this book could somehow have a link to a psychic or have some sort of psychic powers himself.

I've been curious about that myself.

[Passacaglia]

Firstly am ont following Alan's lead. I trust alan about as far as I trust you which is to say not at all.

Secondly, HOW? how do you know I'm good? That 2 people you've supposedly cleared, Racer and now me, NEITHER of which is a typical or obvious choice or scanning if you were the seer. totally off the radar choices which, old friend, you would never make. you MIGHT decide to check me out if I were on the lynch block and you thought maybe I was ok, but I haven't been anywhere near it and neither has racer.

your logic isn't holding up. What happens if another player sides against you? are you going to say you know they're good to? you're not giving us ANY reason to believe you at this stage.

At least what Alan is saying has a plausibility to it. your's is like the smoke at a magic show, its al fluff and no magic.

Work with me here. Convince me to trust you.

hoops said Racer was the one that scanned you.

[hoopsguy]

but the only thing I want to take from today is once I do die and people see the truth, that you kill Racer before Hoopsguy. He obviously is protecting him for some reason that we don't know. My guess is Racer might be a cunning wolf or some other important wolf role.

This is the kind of post someone makes when they are the cunning wolf. And I know Alan replies with "this is the kind of post a villager makes". I'll save you the effort (or posturing, to use your word).

90% bluff - Alan dies as a wolf
10% cunning wolf pushing you to the seer next

[Axxon]

Pass, what more do you want to know?

Racer is the seer.
Alan is a wolf.
I've got another role, as a result I've been privy to Racer's [b]cleared[./b] list.

I'm ecstatic that he scanned Alan last night, given that Alan's distrust list yesterday included the seer and the person that the seer scanned on Night 1. It is the person that I would have chosen, given the chance.

Now I'm confused. If you could see the cleared list how again do you know Alan T is a wolf??

[Alan T]

This is the kind of post someone makes when they are the cunning wolf. And I know Alan replies with "this is the kind of post a villager makes". I'll save you the effort (or posturing, to use your word).

90% bluff - Alan dies as a wolf
10% cunning wolf pushing you to the seer next


Ok.. so now when I die and turn up a villager, obviously I am the cunning wolf. :)

:popcorn:

[hoopsguy]

Firstly am ont following Alan's lead. I trust alan about as far as I trust you which is to say not at all.

Secondly, HOW? how do you know I'm good? That 2 people you've supposedly cleared, Racer and now me, NEITHER of which is a typical or obvious choice or scanning if you were the seer. totally off the radar choices which, old friend, you would never make. you MIGHT decide to check me out if I were on the lynch block and you thought maybe I was ok, but I haven't been anywhere near it and neither has racer.

your logic isn't holding up. What happens if another player sides against you? are you going to say you know they're good to? you're not giving us ANY reason to believe you at this stage.

At least what Alan is saying has a plausibility to it. your's is like the smoke at a magic show, its al fluff and no magic.

Work with me here. Convince me to trust you.

OK, lets start working here.
1.) I didn't pick to scan Racer
2.) I didn't pick the scans
3.) I've published the scans. There won't be any other players that I will suggest have been scanned because there have only been two scans. You = good aura. Alan = bad guy who saw the seer (per the PM)
4.) I've tried to provide some level of mystery for the wolves in their next actions by not revealing all the particulars on my role. It is clear, from the PM I saw and Alan's posts, that they 100% know Racer is the seer

[Passacaglia]

This is the kind of post someone makes when they are the cunning wolf. And I know Alan replies with "this is the kind of post a villager makes". I'll save you the effort (or posturing, to use your word).

90% bluff - Alan dies as a wolf
10% cunning wolf pushing you to the seer next

By cunning wolf, you mean a wolf that is revealed as a villager upon death, rather than a wolf who scans as a villager?

[Alan T]

Ok.. so now when I die and turn up a villager, obviously I am the cunning wolf. :)

:popcorn:


Hoops just had another failure in his logic. Obviously if I was the cunning wolf I would have turned up a villager to his or Racer's or whoever is now the supposed seer's scan and they wouldn't have had to out me.

This message from Hoops is just a set up for the next stage of his plan when I do turn up a villager he has to have his story straight.

[Passacaglia]

OK, lets start working here.
1.) I didn't pick to scan Racer
2.) I didn't pick the scans
3.) I've published the scans. There won't be any other players that I will suggest have been scanned because there have only been two scans. You = good aura. Alan = bad guy who saw the seer (per the PM)
4.) I've tried to provide some level of mystery for the wolves in their next actions by not revealing all the particulars on my role. It is clear, from the PM I saw and Alan's posts, that they 100% know Racer is the seer

So...you're saying you've outed the seer, but are afraid to out yourself?

[hoopsguy]

Now I'm confused. If you could see the cleared list how again do you know Alan T is a wolf??

"cleared" list was a bad choice of words since only one of the two is "cleared". I have seen both of Racer's scans and have every reason to believe I'll see his future scans as well as long as we are both alive to do so.

[Alan T]

Alan, if I end up being a wolf then I promise not to kill you on Night 1. And if my teammates do not demand it over my objections.

I'm sure you feel much better.

Just bringing this back up since it became applicable. Thanks for living up to your word :)

[hoopsguy]

Hoops just had another failure in his logic. Obviously if I was the cunning wolf I would have turned up a villager to his or Racer's or whoever is now the supposed seer's scan and they wouldn't have had to out me.

This message from Hoops is just a set up for the next stage of his plan when I do turn up a villager he has to have his story straight.

No, it is me being a little paranoid about the direction your posts are taking. I know we are getting a wolf when you are lynched. I'm hoping you have any role besides cunning because that would muddle things up for tomorrow.

[hoopsguy]

By cunning wolf, you mean a wolf that is revealed as a villager upon death, rather than a wolf who scans as a villager?

Yes. And I strongly doubt that this will be the case - that role isn't around all that often. But Alan's posts just sounded like he was trying to lay some groundwork.

[hoopsguy]

So...you're saying you've outed the seer, but are afraid to out yourself?

I have in the thread, but the PM was pretty clear in that the wolves already knew the seer. I have no reason to believe they know my role, although they can probably piece quite a bit of the mechanics together based on my posts in the thread.

[hoopsguy]

Just bringing this back up since it became applicable. Thanks for living up to your word :)

Amusing :) Not applicable, but amusing.

[Alan T]

Yes. And I strongly doubt that this will be the case - that role isn't around all that often. But Alan's posts just sounded like he was trying to lay some groundwork.


So now somehow I am a cunning wolf that will show up villager when I die, yet didn't show up villager on my scan but somehow knew that Hoopsguy and Racer were both villager teammates who could communicate somehow and that racer was the seer.

Who was saying we should stick to the simplest scenerio earlier? :)

[Axxon]

"cleared" list was a bad choice of words since only one of the two is "cleared". I have seen both of Racer's scans and have every reason to believe I'll see his future scans as well as long as we are both alive to do so.

If your power is to see the seers list so to speak the only advantage I can see to that power is to actually protect the seer but you outed him as the seer. Alan T outed that he had a role but not necessarily as the seer. I'm still confused and right now, while I'm leaning to trusting you still I most humbly must

UNVOTE ALAN T

until I have had time to really think this over.

[hoopsguy]

Axxon, take your time to make the right call. I initially tried to leave some confusion over the seer in the thread, but it was pretty clear both from the PM and from Alan's posts + vote that the wolves are not confused as to the identity of the seer.

I'm still not looking to draw them a map to my role, if I can avoid doing so.

[hoopsguy]

Vote count:

Alan - Hoops (894), Racer (724), KWhit (779)
Racer - Alan (702), RendeR (741)

[Alan T]

No, it is me being a little paranoid about the direction your posts are taking. I know we are getting a wolf when you are lynched. I'm hoping you have any role besides cunning because that would muddle things up for tomorrow.


If you were really worried about this as a possibility, you would offer your own self up to be lynched to prove your story. Since obviously if I was this great role you are trying to tell everyone that I am , and I show up as a villager when I die, it would only get the seer killed.. Since your supposed role that you claim to have only seems to have any power when the seer is alive, wouldn't you want to sacrifice yourself to prove your story?

You obviously aren't willing to do so, and this is your chance to try to kill me.. so that is why you haven't offered that to the masses.

[Alan T]

Axxon, take your time to make the right call. I initially tried to leave some confusion over the seer in the thread, but it was pretty clear both from the PM and from Alan's posts + vote that the wolves are not confused as to the identity of the seer.

I'm still not looking to draw them a map to my role, if I can avoid doing so.


Translated: Axxon, take your time to make the right call. I initially tried to confuse you in the thread, but it became pretty clear from Alan's reveal that he knew who attacked him.

[oliegirl]

Gah...not sure what to think. I'd really like to know more about Hoops role and how it is he knows all this when he's not the seer. But, I understand that giving that info at this point could be really really bad...so the question is, do I trust Hoops enough to take his word on Alan being a wolf?

Do we have an updated vote count?

[Passacaglia]

If you were really worried about this as a possibility, you would offer your own self up to be lynched to prove your story. Since obviously if I was this great role you are trying to tell everyone that I am , and I show up as a villager when I die, it would only get the seer killed.. Since your supposed role that you claim to have only seems to have any power when the seer is alive, wouldn't you want to sacrifice yourself to prove your story?

You obviously aren't willing to do so, and this is your chance to try to kill me.. so that is why you haven't offered that to the masses.

My thought is that same as yours, Alan. Voting hoops seems like the best play.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[EagleFan]

This has turned out to be an interesting morning. I don't know who to trust at this point (sort of) but will take my best crack at this as we basically have two scenerios:

1) hoops it telling the truth. If this is the case we are suddenly in better shape than we thought as we now have a growing CoT. If he is telling the truth it clears up a major question that I had about my role and certain limitations I was given but has also given me reason to doubt my results. This also gives some voting history to pour over to see where alan was voting and if anyone was voting with him. We also need to protect racer that this point, as best we can.

2) hoops is lying. Timing does seem odd that he would cme right out with this. Why would he out himself and racer to the wolves when he could have tried to influence the vote in other ways without an outrght reveal and only reveal if needed? If there was an attack on alan that was defended, or blocked, why would he come out and fake reveal? We are down three right now. A fake reveal to get ahead of the game may sacrifice two wolves but if one is the brutal it could be a 3-2 exchange (if they get night kills the next two nights). This seems like a lot to give up unless alan has a vital role that the wolves need to eliminate.



Neither play seems like a great play IMHO. I guess there is also a third:

3) All three are wolves and sacrificing alan (brutal) would appear to put two wolves right in the middle of everyone's CoT. If that is the case the game could be easily manipulated as they would have an early lead on us and be the ones calling the shots as any other seer reveals would be treated as fake by the masses.



The only problem that I have with believing hoops is that it would seem to be too coordinated of a plan and that would involve outside communication. To my knowledge it has always been wolves with outside communication unless specified differently (but I have played only a handful of games).



Damn, overthinking has confused me even more. :) Options 1 and 2 are very straight forward which means we chose one side to believe today and of that's wrong we go after the other side. Option 3 adds a lot of grey area. One simple statement about alan and hoops being on the same side, and the response today basically saying "see, they're not" is what makes option 3 a little more viable.

[Axxon]

One more thing is bothering me.

I did have something pretty odd that I received a PM about last night, and to no suprise it came from the person who was probably one of my most distrusted people on my list. I assume it was some form of mental attack that I fought off. Oddly enough, it wasn't Hoopsguy who did it, but instead it was Racer. My PM said that he knows that I knew he tried to invade my thoughts as well.


If we are to believe that Alan T outed the seer then we need to believe that the seer can PM wolves and worse, the wolves know this so it kinda makes it a crappy role since it didn't really hurt him and it outed him for sure.

I'd say either Alan T is lying about the PM and you jumped the gun in thinking he'd outed the seer ( if we believe you ) or Alan T was telling the truth about the PM.

That brings me around to the Bearer of the Necronomicon. Anyone who would bear that book in the Mythos would clearly trend towards madness and not be someone I'd trust. It strikes me as believable that he'd have a psychic connection to the wolves; think souped up sorcerer, one that can PM them so they don't kill him.

I guess, that PM may make hoops a liar but in my book it doesn't clear Alan either since that sounds like a reasonable power for that role.

[hoopsguy]

If you were really worried about this as a possibility, you would offer your own self up to be lynched to prove your story. Since obviously if I was this great role you are trying to tell everyone that I am , and I show up as a villager when I die, it would only get the seer killed.. Since your supposed role that you claim to have only seems to have any power when the seer is alive, wouldn't you want to sacrifice yourself to prove your story?

You obviously aren't willing to do so, and this is your chance to try to kill me.. so that is why you haven't offered that to the masses.

This is one of your worst posts of the day. Offer myself up to prove you are a wolf? People may decide to go in that direction with their votes, but why would I offer to do that when I'm 100% vouching that you are a wolf?

I would take the approach that I am taking - kill Alan, come back for me if he shows up as a villager. In the unlikely event that you are the cunning wolf I'll go down next and then people will see two villagers dead. But I think it is 90% likely that you die as the wolf you are and that we move along with the remainder of the game, free from this distraction.

[KWhit]

I don't know what to believe about Hoops, but it seems to me that it's an easy play to at worst get a 1-1 or maybe even a 2-1 wolf/villager lynch trade-off which is awesome for us.

It doesn't make sense for Hoops to come out and accuse Alan for no good reason if Hoops is a wolf and Alan a villager. There is no scenario that I can come up with that makes that a good play for Hoops to make.

So something else is going on.

And the most plausible explanation is that AlanT is a wolf and we should vote for him.

[Telle]

Where's all this "cunning wolf" stuff coming from?

[Alan T]

This is one of your worst posts of the day. Offer myself up to prove you are a wolf? People may decide to go in that direction with their votes, but why would I offer to do that when I'm 100% vouching that you are a wolf?

I would take the approach that I am taking - kill Alan, come back for me if he shows up as a villager. In the unlikely event that you are the cunning wolf I'll go down next and then people will see two villagers dead. But I think it is 90% likely that you die as the wolf you are and that we move along with the remainder of the game, free from this distraction.


But that is what I have been saying all along, I have no problem with people killing me, finding out that I am a villager and then going after Racer next as you appear to trying to protect him. You're the one who keeps trying to muddy the waters with talk of what to do when I turn up as a villager or a way to figure out the next step once everyone sees that i am good.

I am only pointing out the flaw in your logic where you obviously are not concerned about it since you know the truth that I am good already. It just is obvious to everyone else in cases like this where your actions speak louder than your words. It is important for everyone when encountering someone like you (whom has self-admitedly talked your way out of many lynches as an exposed wolf), that they make sure to see what your actions are moreso than just your words.

[Alan T]

Where's all this "cunning wolf" stuff coming from?

Hoops threw it out as what the future explanation will be when I turn up good at this lynch.

[Telle]

Hoops threw it out as what the future explanation will be when I turn up good at this lynch.

Ahh. I don't think I've ever even seen a game with a cunning wolf. Just seems odd to bring it up when we don't even know the wolf roles.

[Alan T]

I don't know what to believe about Hoops, but it seems to me that it's an easy play to at worst get a 1-1 or maybe even a 2-1 wolf/villager lynch trade-off which is awesome for us.

It doesn't make sense for Hoops to come out and accuse Alan for no good reason if Hoops is a wolf and Alan a villager. There is no scenario that I can come up with that makes that a good play for Hoops to make.

So something else is going on.

And the most plausible explanation is that AlanT is a wolf and we should vote for him.

I can't tell you what thoughts are going through Hoops's mind right now but I am assuming the following:

1) Hoops knows he is often an early seer scan and likely will be outed anyways soon
2) Hoops found that an attack on me failed and is concerned that I can't be night killed
3) Hoops makes a story up to try to get me killed in a 1 for 1 swap that would take out a villager that posts alot and one that they couldn't kill plus only cost them a wolf who likely would be outed in the first few days anyways.
4) Hoops realizes wrongly that I actually knew who attacked me and had to come up with a new story

[KWhit]

What could be happening here is that Hoops and Alan are both wolves.

1) Racer scans Alan and Alan knows he's outed. He PMs the other wolves to tell them the bad news.
2) The wolves decide to make the best of the situation and try to get Hoops into a CoT by having him dream up a role that doesn't exist and be the one to out Alan.

So, even if we lynch Alan and he turns out to be a wolf, we can't just blindly assume that Hoops is good.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not concerned about "Alan is a villager" scenarios because there are none.

KWhit understands the situation properly. Pass is either overthinking it or deliberately trying to muddy the waters. I'm not sure what Telle is doing and I'm wondering when RendeR is coming back to reply to my post where we were going to work together to build trust.

Telle, the "cunning wolf" stuff probably isn't worth worrying too much about ... Alan is now using this as a distraction to the core of the issue.



Either Alan is lying or I am lying - it is up to the rest of you to figure out who.

Everything else is just a distraction from this fundamental point.

[Passacaglia]

But that is what I have been saying all along, I have no problem with people killing me, finding out that I am a villager and then going after Racer next as you appear to trying to protect him. You're the one who keeps trying to muddy the waters with talk of what to do when I turn up as a villager or a way to figure out the next step once everyone sees that i am good.

I am only pointing out the flaw in your logic where you obviously are not concerned about it since you know the truth that I am good already. It just is obvious to everyone else in cases like this where your actions speak louder than your words. It is important for everyone when encountering someone like you (whom has self-admitedly talked your way out of many lynches as an exposed wolf), that they make sure to see what your actions are moreso than just your words.

That's why I think a vote for hoops is a good compromise. Hoops is worried about Alan turning up villager, which would make us go after Racer. So why not vote hoops today; hoops good = Alan tomorrow, hoops bad == Racer tomorrow?

[hoopsguy]

So now Alan can't be night-killed. Yep, wolves usually can't night-kill their own. More distractions from the fundamental point in my last post.

[Alan T]

Telle, the "cunning wolf" stuff probably isn't worth worrying too much about ... Alan is now using this as a distraction to the core of the issue.



How am I using that as a distraction, when you were the one suggesting it??? :confused:

[Alan T]

So now Alan can't be night-killed. Yep, wolves usually can't night-kill their own. More distractions from the fundamental point in my last post.

Did Racer just trip on the way in or something I guess? :p

[Telle]

That's why I think a vote for hoops is a good compromise. Hoops is worried about Alan turning up villager, which would make us go after Racer. So why not vote hoops today; hoops good = Alan tomorrow, hoops bad == Racer tomorrow?

I could get on board with this. It also works in the case where we're looking at two wolves fighting and trying to put one (hoops) into a CoT.

[Telle]

...I'm wondering when RendeR is coming back to reply to my post where we were going to work together to build trust.

He has tennis this morning. He should be back around 2pm when he gets to work.

[hoopsguy]

That's why I think a vote for hoops is a good compromise. Hoops is worried about Alan turning up villager, which would make us go after Racer. So why not vote hoops today; hoops good = Alan tomorrow, hoops bad == Racer tomorrow?

Because you give yourself zero opportunity to get a wolf the first time under this scenario.

I'm 100% on the same team as Racer and the opposite team as Alan. I won't dispute this in the least and it doesn't sound like Alan is either. So you can go this route if you don't believe my version of events. But you are losing a day.

If you are a villager who is thinking about believing Alan in this case then you are just being greedy - he isn't able to offer up two wolves. But Racer and I are able to offer up one wolf - Alan. It is a good start in a game where we have fallen behind early. Don't put us one day further behind by chasing Alan's version of events where he gives you two wolves and can't be night-killed. You'll be able to rectify it a day later, but you'll be sacrificing a villager role in the process (either me or Racer).

[hoopsguy]

How am I using that as a distraction, when you were the one suggesting it??? :confused:

By continuing to bring up what was a somewhat paranoid musing on my part. You are tapping into this as a means to distract people from the issue that it really is "you versus me" today.

[KWhit]

That's why I think a vote for hoops is a good compromise. Hoops is worried about Alan turning up villager, which would make us go after Racer. So why not vote hoops today; hoops good = Alan tomorrow, hoops bad == Racer tomorrow?

But we pretty much get a 2 for 1 scenario if Hoops is lying. We lynch AlanT today, if he is good, then we lynch Hoops tomorrow and it would seem that Racer is a wolf too and we can lynch him the next day. All of that seems unlikely, but if true, hell, I'll take it!

I believe it's more likely that AlanT is a wolf, so we go after him today.

[Passacaglia]

Because you give yourself zero opportunity to get a wolf the first time under this scenario.



I agree, but it gives ourselves zero chance of getting burned by a strange wolf role.

[KWhit]

Because you give yourself zero opportunity to get a wolf the first time under this scenario.

I'm 100% on the same team as Racer and the opposite team as Alan. I won't dispute this in the least and it doesn't sound like Alan is either. So you can go this route if you don't believe my version of events. But you are losing a day.

Racer has not confirmed this, BTW, so we don't know this for sure. It's possible that you and Alan are both wolves.

[KWhit]

I agree, but it gives ourselves zero chance of getting burned by a strange wolf role.

What kind of strange wolf role are you envisioning?

[Alan T]

By continuing to bring up what was a somewhat paranoid musing on my part. You are tapping into this as a means to distract people from the issue that it really is "you versus me" today.

Aren't you the one that is continuing to bring it up by saying things like this? All I am doing is responding. It wasn't my idea, I just responded to say how crazy you are being and hoping that no one actually believes all of the sensational stories that you are providing as your explanations. You started off by suggesting that people vote with what seems the simplest explanation, and once you and everyone realized that my explanation was actually the simplest you suddenly left that approach.

[Alan T]

Racer has not confirmed this, BTW, so we don't know this for sure. It's possible that you and Alan are both wolves.

I'm pretty sure to the point of 99.9% that they are both on the same team if it helps things here :) I don't see any other way how Racer can fail to kill me and Hoopsguy magically know about it before Racer even logs in during the morning.

[Passacaglia]

What kind of strange wolf role are you envisioning?

The one hoops mentioned -- he's worried that Alan is a wolf who will turn up villager on death. If that's the case, then after lynching Alan, we'd lynch Racer tomorrow -- which, if hoops is telling the truth, is bad for the village.

[oliegirl]

Deadline isn't until 9 pm tonight, right????

[KWhit]

I'm pretty sure to the point of 99.9% that they are both on the same team if it helps things here :) I don't see any other way how Racer can fail to kill me and Hoopsguy magically know about it before Racer even logs in during the morning.

Well... You're the only one who has said that he tried to kill you (I think). I think another possibility is that he seer-scanned you.

[Alan T]

Deadline isn't until 9 pm tonight, right????

I believe so, yes

[hoopsguy]

Ugh - the simplest explanation is that two villagers, one of whom is the seer, caught a wolf last night who was a likely target for a scan.

You aren't counter-claiming seer here, but instead now claiming you can't be night-killed. That is definitely less likely than you were scanned and bad.

[path12]

Alan, your argument is predicated on the idea that both Racer and I are wolves. There is no way that I would give up two wolves (including me) to get one villager in a game where we are up 3-0. Potentially more than that if there was a conversion last night.
That is about as simple as I can make it.

Blood on the floor lends me to think attack rather than conversion.

[hoopsguy]

Well... You're the only one who has said that he tried to kill you (I think). I think another possibility is that he seer-scanned you.

If by possibility you mean absolutely what happened, then this is correct.

[KWhit]

The one hoops mentioned -- he's worried that Alan is a wolf who will turn up villager on death. If that's the case, then after lynching Alan, we'd lynch Racer tomorrow -- which, if hoops is telling the truth, is bad for the village.

No way we lynch Racer tomorrow, IMO. If Alan turns up good, we lynch Hoops tomorrow.

It's very clear to me that if Alan is good, Hoops is bad.

[Alan T]

Well... You're the only one who has said that he tried to kill you (I think). I think another possibility is that he seer-scanned you.

Ok, if you believe Hoops's story then fine, but either way Hoops knew the result of the night action before Racer logged in. I can confirm that it was Racer who attacked me from my PM.. so the only logical correlation to me is they both get the same night pm. Obviously from both of their actions today, it is pretty obvious even without Racer admitting it that Hoops did get the same PM as him. Doesn't really matter who's story you believe (hoops or mine), I think all of the evidence shows Racer and Hoops both are on the same team.

[hoopsguy]

Blood on the floor lends me to think attack rather than conversion.

I would be ecstatic if there was a failed attack last night on the same night that a wolf was scanned. But I don't have a way of knowing this.

[KWhit]

I'm out for a bit while I attend a couple of meetings but will be back online in an hour or so....

[hoopsguy]

No way we lynch Racer tomorrow, IMO. If Alan turns up good, we lynch Hoops tomorrow.

It's very clear to me that if Alan is good, Hoops is bad.

Give this man a cigar.

[Passacaglia]

Blood on the floor lends me to think attack rather than conversion.

Really? Don't people lose blood when becoming werewolves? Or is that just vampires?

[Alan T]

Blood on the floor lends me to think attack rather than conversion.

Thank you! I guess I didn't think about re-reading the official day post from Schmidty as I had information from my PM and then came on here to see Hoops lie about me...

Hopefully this helps people see that I might just be telling the truth after all.


Another night has passed, and you actually see some rays of sunshine streaming through the unbreakable windows, but it does little to lighten the mood after the events of the past two days.

After the death of the Jackal the first night, you fear the worst. Grimly, you search the Library, but find no bodies. You do, however, find a large pool of fresh blood in the basement.

Confused panic ensues. What the hell is going on?

Day 3 has begun. The deadline is at 9 p.m. EST

[KWhit]

Ok, if you believe Hoops's story then fine, but either way Hoops knew the result of the night action before Racer logged in. I can confirm that it was Racer who attacked me from my PM.. so the only logical correlation to me is they both get the same night pm. Obviously from both of their actions today, it is pretty obvious even without Racer admitting it that Hoops did get the same PM as him. Doesn't really matter who's story you believe (hoops or mine), I think all of the evidence shows Racer and Hoops both are on the same team.

I strongly disagree. If you and Hoops are both wolves, it would be very easy for you to tell Hoops in PM that Racer scanned you. Hoops and Racer DO NOT have to be on the same team.

[Alan T]

I would be ecstatic if there was a failed attack last night on the same night that a wolf was scanned. But I don't have a way of knowing this.


You know as well as I do that there was a failed attack last night! :banghead:

[EagleFan]

I am really concerned with the all are wolves theory now. The more the either or arguemnt is being pushed the more I wonder about that. Maybe overthinking though.

Some things I don't get (please correct me if I am wrong and missed something trying to catch up with this):

1) alan is a cunning wolf idea: I thought when this happens it's that they scan as good, not that they come up good when killed.

2) alan can't be night killed? hoops acts shocked by this possibility but it happened in the last game I was in so it is still a possibility

3) hoops has some unknown role: he freely outs the seer but can't tell us what he is?

4) alan survived the attack: what ability do you have to survive the attack? what is your role? if you were attacked why not put the cards on the table at this point.

5) either alan or hoops: Whenever someone tries to push that belief I tend to question both


I liked the first two nights voting a little better when my vote choice was made for me: save my own ass


What if racer is the seer and both alan and hoops are wolves? If we believe hoops and lynch alan we may have a wolf in our CoT. If that is the case I would be all for a scan of hoops. If we lynch hoops we go after racer next and end up lynching the seer for the wolves so they don't have to worry about getting through BG. This puts alan back up for lynching and that tells me that he may be the brutal in this case.


There are suddenly a lot of ways to look at this one.

[Alan T]

ok, away for a few minutes to get some lunch while Hoopsguy is coming up with a story to try to explain my blood all over the floor.

[hoopsguy]

Eagle, I'm just surprised it took Alan as long as it did to make the "I can't be killed at night" claim. I'm not shocked by the claim.

Again, fundamental question - do you believe Alan or me? Make up your minds and vote accordingly. Everything else is sleight of hand.

[hoopsguy]

What if racer is the seer and both alan and hoops are wolves?

If Racer, as the seer, distrusts me then he scans me tonight. That one is easy.

[oliegirl]

Alright...at least for now, I'm willing to give Hoops the benefit of the doubt and vote for Alan. It's still early so if things change in the next 8 hours and 56 minutes, I'll be moving my vote...

VOTE ALAN T

[Passacaglia]

EF, I'm pretty sure Neon_Chaos's most recent game featured a wolf that was revealed as villager on death, yet scanned as a wolf. Just FYI.

[hoopsguy]

No offense, but there are a large number of villagers out there who seem to be afraid to commit on this vote. I understand asking questions, working through your process, etc. But the longer this gets dragged out, the more emboldened the wolves are going to get that they can get Alan off the hook today.

I've been the one counter-punching on this stuff enough times to know how it works. The action up to this point is decidedly anti-village, and it clearly isn't just the wolves who are creating the situation.

If I'm being aggressive here, it is because I know how this works in WW. Even when you have a wolf dead to rights, with two players vouching for it, it isn't always enough against a persuasive player with sufficient time on his hands to defend himself. Alan is going to continue to deflect and deny all day long. He'll build on theories that you concoct for him.

This just makes it harder to make the right call, which is why I'm continuing to raise the fundamental point of "him or me". Pick a lane, own your decision, hopefully we are around to celebrate our good fortune together at the deadline.

[Telle]

The more I see the back-and-forth between Alan and hoops the more I worry about the wolf-vs-wolf scenario. Thus, in order to avoid potentially putting a wolf into a CoT I'm going to go with voting hoops.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[EagleFan]

thx hoops, that clears that question up for me. Still a lot more to consider.

I still don't discount the possibility that you are both wolves.

[Alan T]

Eagle, I'm just surprised it took Alan as long as it did to make the "I can't be killed at night" claim. I'm not shocked by the claim.

Again, fundamental question - do you believe Alan or me? Make up your minds and vote accordingly. Everything else is sleight of hand.

Once again, you are trying to muddy up the waters. I said from the start what happened. My initial post of the morning explains that I was attacked, by some form of attack that I still don't really quite understand from my PM. I was in mental angush and all I know is that it was Racer attacking me.


Well, not even sure how to respond to this other than say it is false. Unfortunately for me a challenge like this is pretty tough to defend against. I'm a wolf just because Hoops says so?

I did have something pretty odd that I received a PM about last night, and to no suprise it came from the person who was probably one of my most distrusted people on my list. I assume it was some form of mental attack that I fought off. Oddly enough, it wasn't Hoopsguy who did it, but instead it was Racer. My PM said that he knows that I knew he tried to invade my thoughts as well.

So hoopsguy, would you like to explain how Racer comes after me and then suddenly you know I am a wolf? Was this an attempt to try to discredit me before I released my information this morning to try to buy more time for Racer? I'm not sure what you gain from this move as the obvious play today would be for people to lynch me, find out that I am good and then kill you and Racer in order. Unless you have some other mechanism that I am unaware of in place, this doesn't seem like a break even play for you.

So color me very intrigued.

This isn't just something that I threw out there once it became convienant like you have been doing with your stories this morning.

[hoopsguy]

Path, when I'm the one that is pointed to as a wolf you are 100% consistent in voting for me. You vouch for the "first to reveal = truth", and then test it later. What is different this time around for you? The fact that Alan has suggested you and he were on the same wavelength early in this game?

I'm inclined to think you are a villager, since Alan wouldn't cozy up to another wolf in the thread. But I'm perplexed that it is taking you this long to work through this vote.

[hoopsguy]

Once again, you are trying to muddy up the waters. I said from the start what happened. My initial post of the morning explains that I was attacked, by some form of attack that I still don't really quite understand from my PM. I was in mental angush and all I know is that it was Racer attacking me.

This isn't just something that I threw out there once it became convienant like you have been doing with your stories this morning.

So your blood is on the floor from Racer's mental attack? Does that make any sense in Cthulhu-land?

[Alan T]

So your blood is on the floor from Racer's mental attack? Does that make any sense in Cthulhu-land?


I don't know anything about this theme so you are asking the wrong person. I was told in my PM that Racer attacked me, I was in mental anguish and I fought him off. My PM said nothing about you, nothing about blood or anything else. I have to assume that there wasn't more than one night kill attempt though on the same night.

[EagleFan]

If Racer, as the seer, distrusts me then he scans me tonight. That one is easy.

not if alan is the brutal.

[oliegirl]

The more I see the back-and-forth between Alan and hoops the more I worry about the wolf-vs-wolf scenario. Thus, in order to avoid potentially putting a wolf into a CoT I'm going to go with voting hoops.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

Telle, I considered that too, but I'd be surprised if that was the case this early in the game. I've seen it happen before, but it's usually an act of desperation by the wolves after the villagers have gone on a run and nailed a couple wolves in 2 or 3 days.

[Passacaglia]

But the longer this gets dragged out, the more emboldened the wolves are going to get that they can get Alan off the hook today.



Isn't that a good thing?

[hoopsguy]

Right, there was a night kill attempt and the seer scanned you. No blood from that action.

Perhaps some of the others who know more about the theme (I'm not one of them) can comment on the likelihood that Alan would bleed when mentally "attacked". I don't see this as all that important (he was scanned, not attacked), although Alan is now co-opting the blood to support his version of the events so I would like it dismissed if it helps others make the right call.

[Telle]

Telle, I considered that too, but I'd be surprised if that was the case this early in the game. I've seen it happen before, but it's usually an act of desperation by the wolves after the villagers have gone on a run and nailed a couple wolves in 2 or 3 days.

I just don't get a good vibe off of either of them at this point. And I'm thinking better-safe-than-sorry. So lynch hoops today and Alan tomorrow no matter how hoops turns out.

[hoopsguy]

Isn't that a good thing?

Depends on the ultimate result, I suppose. It is entirely not a good thing if Alan survives and the seer is lynched.

With Alan outed he will be the wolf who takes any potential risks this evening. So we almost certainly lose out on the opportunity to find a wolf with a bodyguard block or any other night actions that might benefit the village.

[Passacaglia]

Telle, I considered that too, but I'd be surprised if that was the case this early in the game. I've seen it happen before, but it's usually an act of desperation by the wolves after the villagers have gone on a run and nailed a couple wolves in 2 or 3 days.

If the wolves know that Racer scanned Alan as a wolf, I could see it: Hoops comes out against Alan, with the knowledge that Racer is the seer.

[Alan T]

Right, there was a night kill attempt and the seer scanned you. No blood from that action.

Perhaps some of the others who know more about the theme (I'm not one of them) can comment on the likelihood that Alan would bleed when mentally "attacked". I don't see this as all that important (he was scanned, not attacked), although Alan is now co-opting the blood to support his version of the events so I would like it dismissed if it helps others make the right call.

Don't think that I don't know what you are trying to get me to do here. You know as well as I do where this conversation path is going. You want me to say , "Well then if there was another night attack blocked, someone just come out and say so!" to which you would reply in saying ,"See Alan wants us to try to out the bodyguard in addition to the seer!!" followed by a bunch of emotional votes that didn't actually see you attempt to set me up here..

No actually what is happening here is Hoopsguy desperately wants to know who the bodyguard is because they'll know damn well that they didn't block an attack and they'll believe my story and vote with me.. So just be careful with when and where you place your votes, I can gurantuee you that Hoopsguy is trying to figure that out as well today. He knows the bodyguard wasn't involved last night just like I do and Hoopsguy and Racer know.

[hoopsguy]

not if alan is the brutal.

Nope. If Alan is lynched as the brutal and takes out Racer then you have to figure out how to interpret me the rest of the way. Again, just like the cunning wolf we are talking about something that is a relatively low likelihood.

Any lynch that involves Alan today is going to be a net good for the village/students, no matter what wolf abilities he may or may not have.

[Alan T]

Depends on the ultimate result, I suppose. It is entirely not a good thing if Alan survives and the seer is lynched.

With Alan outed he will be the wolf who takes any potential risks this evening. So we almost certainly lose out on the opportunity to find a wolf with a bodyguard block or any other night actions that might benefit the village.

I can gurantuee you that if somehow I survive this frame job, tonight I'll be sitting in my home by myself. There is a role supposedly that can follow someone, and they are more than welcome to try to follow me tonight as well if they really want to even. I would rather them try to find a wolf, but as a good guy I'm obviously not going to be wandering about at night. (just like I wasn't last night)

[EagleFan]

Right, there was a night kill attempt and the seer scanned you. No blood from that action.

Perhaps some of the others who know more about the theme (I'm not one of them) can comment on the likelihood that Alan would bleed when mentally "attacked". I don't see this as all that important (he was scanned, not attacked), although Alan is now co-opting the blood to support his version of the events so I would like it dismissed if it helps others make the right call.

If there was a night kill attempt why hasn't someone come out ans claimed it? That person and the wolves most likely already know about this. That would seem like the easiest arguement for a slam dunk vote.

[hoopsguy]

If the wolves know that Racer scanned Alan as a wolf, I could see it: Hoops comes out against Alan, with the knowledge that Racer is the seer.

Yep, but the seer is left alive to scan me tonight. Unless you guys pick the wrong person between me and Alan, and we brutal the seer.

This is an overly complicated scenario, given the position the wolves are in to start the game. And it is 100% wrong.

[Alan T]

I can gurantuee you that if somehow I survive this frame job, tonight I'll be sitting in my home by myself. There is a role supposedly that can follow someone, and they are more than welcome to try to follow me tonight as well if they really want to even. I would rather them try to find a wolf, but as a good guy I'm obviously not going to be wandering about at night. (just like I wasn't last night)

At least I assume that is what the private eye does. I guess I might be wrong on that assumption though.

[Alan T]

If there was a night kill attempt why hasn't someone come out ans claimed it? That person and the wolves most likely already know about this. That would seem like the easiest arguement for a slam dunk vote.

Don't fall into Hoops' trap here. He is trying to out the bodyguard with this line of thinking. The bodyguard was not involved last night, I know it, Racer and Hoops and the rest of the wolves know it, the bodyguard knows it.. I am afraid Hoopsguy will figure out who the bodyguard is if they don't finesse their vote just right.

[Alan T]

Yep, but the seer is left alive to scan me tonight. Unless you guys pick the wrong person between me and Alan, and we brutal the seer.

This is an overly complicated scenario, given the position the wolves are in to start the game. And it is 100% wrong.


Did you just admit to being a wolf here??

[hoopsguy]

If there was a night kill attempt why hasn't someone come out ans claimed it? That person and the wolves most likely already know about this. That would seem like the easiest arguement for a slam dunk vote.

If the question is directed at me - since I'm quoted I'll answer - then I'll tell you that I have no idea what happened with the kill attempt last night. I do know that Racer scanned Alan, who showed up as a wolf.

I really wish there was a soothsayer role in this game - and hoping that one of the good guy roles might have this power. Alan's posts are chock full of BS.

[Passacaglia]

Yep, but the seer is left alive to scan me tonight. Unless you guys pick the wrong person between me and Alan, and we brutal the seer.

This is an overly complicated scenario, given the position the wolves are in to start the game. And it is 100% wrong.

Is there a reason Racer isn't saying anything now?

[EagleFan]

Nope. If Alan is lynched as the brutal and takes out Racer then you have to figure out how to interpret me the rest of the way. Again, just like the cunning wolf we are talking about something that is a relatively low likelihood.

Any lynch that involves Alan today is going to be a net good for the village/students, no matter what wolf abilities he may or may not have.

How is this a low likelihood? There is a brutal every game and this would be a good play to go for the throat by the wolves (pun intended). That way they have one furball in the CoT and accomplish their goal.

[hoopsguy]

Did you just admit to being a wolf here??

No - I'm refuting the scenario where you and I are co-wolves conspiring.

Seriously, you really are playing a desperate game right now.

[hoopsguy]

Is there a reason Racer isn't saying anything now?

Not that I know of - I would be happy to have him support my claims.

Seriously, Pass - two people are saying Alan is a wolf and you think I'm the right vote for today?

[KWhit]

If the wolves know that Racer scanned Alan as a wolf, I could see it: Hoops comes out against Alan, with the knowledge that Racer is the seer.

As I said before, I can see that scenario as well. I think the safe approach is to lynch AlanT and ask Racer to scan Hoops tonight (and ask the bodyguard to protect Racer). If somehow Racer is killed without scanning Hoops, we may have to go ahead and lynch Hoops just in case. I don't want a CoT to form with him in it.

Because I ultimately don't trust Hoops' supposed special role at this point. I'd love to hear Racer chime in on what he knows (if anything) about Hoops' role.

[path12]

My thought is that same as yours, Alan. Voting hoops seems like the best play.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

Huh. I didn't see that coming.

[Alan T]

No - I'm refuting the scenario where you and I are co-wolves conspiring.

Seriously, you really are playing a desperate game right now.

I've been pretty much playing a desperate game all morning. How else am I supposed to respond to a frame job set up before i even get on the forum? Everyone knows that the first person out attacking usually gets the benefit of the doubt, so from the get go I had an uphill battle. Right now only myself, you Racer and whomever your fellow wolves are know the truth. The bodyguard probably can assume some things as well. Everyone else is stuck trying to figure out who to believe and you have the edge because you were ready after night results to strike.

I'm just looking for any thing you say right now that I can poke a hole in so others will be able to try to discern the truth.

[Racer]

Just caught up on the posts. I'll go ahead and confirm I'm the seer (back to back games :D ). My course of study is Paranormal Science so I would avoid any sort of study reveal since that sort of hints I'm the seer. Like Hoopsguy said, I scanned Render night one and he turned up good and scanned Alan T night two and he turned up bad. Judging from the PM I got, I am also positive that Alan T knew what I was up to last night. I also 100% trust Hoopsguy at this point based on what he has revealed that he knows and what role I knew was in the game.

[Alan T]

Now I know how Rocky felt in Rocky IV. I feel like I am training in Siberia for my match vs Ivan Drago (Hoopsguy)

[Passacaglia]

Not that I know of - I would be happy to have him support my claims.

Seriously, Pass - two people are saying Alan is a wolf and you think I'm the right vote for today?

Hey, you've got no one to blame but yourself for that! It was you that brought up the cunning wolf idea, which got me paranoid! :p I figure this way, we don't risk losing the seer. What's wrong with that play?

[hoopsguy]

How could the bodyguard assume things if you can't be nightkilled?

[path12]

Path, when I'm the one that is pointed to as a wolf you are 100% consistent in voting for me. You vouch for the "first to reveal = truth", and then test it later. What is different this time around for you? The fact that Alan has suggested you and he were on the same wavelength early in this game?

I'm inclined to think you are a villager, since Alan wouldn't cozy up to another wolf in the thread. But I'm perplexed that it is taking you this long to work through this vote.

Did you mean Pass? I haven't voted yet.

[Alan T]

How could the bodyguard assume things if you can't be nightkilled?

If they wern't any part of the attack last night, they would know there is some other role out there that had the ability in order to be the explanation for the blood. At this point though, I really would prefer if the bodyguard just vote for me to try to hide your vote and not be too exposed for Hoopsguy and his fellow wolves to guess who the bodyguard is.

[Passacaglia]

Did you mean Pass? I haven't voted yet.

Oh, did he? I thought he meant you -- I didn't see how what he was saying applied to me.

[KWhit]

Just caught up on the posts. I'll go ahead and confirm I'm the seer (back to back games :D ). My course of study is Paranormal Science so I would avoid any sort of study reveal since that sort of hints I'm the seer. Like Hoopsguy said, I scanned Render night one and he turned up good and scanned Alan T night two and he turned up bad. Judging from the PM I got, I am also positive that Alan T knew what I was up to last night. I also 100% trust Hoopsguy at this point based on what he has revealed that he knows and what role I knew was in the game.

Good to hear it from the horse's mouth. I feel really good about my vote (on AlanT) now.

[hoopsguy]

Hey, you've got no one to blame but yourself for that! It was you that brought up the cunning wolf idea, which got me paranoid! :p I figure this way, we don't risk losing the seer. What's wrong with that play?

Pass, I've got no problem with it if it is just a ploy of yours to create action on the vote. However, I think you know the two participants in this debate well enough to sort this out.

As I mentioned earlier, voting me out today means that you lose a day on getting a wolf. I think it hampers our ability to get another wolf tonight because Alan will be out and about (despite what he claims) because it is the right move for the wolves ... if I die a villager then he is a dead wolf walking the next day. So the seer is likely the only role who has a chance to net a new wolf.

[KWhit]

I'll have to give it to Alan, though. He's made the past couple of hours interesting. Guys (and gals), vote for Alan. It's clear he's lying. Then we need to figure out if we can trust Hoops or not.

[hoopsguy]

That said, at least you aren't voting for Racer when the clear dispute is me vs Alan. So your vote isn't the one I hate the most at the moment. That would be RendeR's, who is know is a good guy to boot.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

I'm heading to work shortly and unfortunately won't be back in time for the vote and subsequent lynching tonight. I felt it was imperative to tell everyone what I saw the last two nights while you guys were sleeping in the library.

I have always been the adventurous type and don't scare easy. After we mistakenly lynched two of our own and the wolves killed one of us as well, I knew I couldn't sit back and do nothing.

At night I have been following a different person to see what they are up to in the dark of night. As a new member of our group, I wanted to be able to trust the one that seemed to have an established role of leadership. I chose to follow Alan more in a way to rule him out than catch him at anything sinister.

Our first night together I saw Alan in a corner of the library in some kind of meditative state and he was chanting in a low voice words I did not understand. A shiver went down my spine as I backed away. I don't know what Alan's intentions are or whom he serves, but it did not feel right. I had not mentioned it before because I feared bringing attention to myself before I knew more.

Chief said yesterday that I'm climbing on his list of suspects and I've noticed an uneasiness from some others as well. The majority seem to suspect EagleFan and PurdeuBrad so I decided since it may be my last night I would follow EF. I was scared, but for the good of the group I pressed on. I followed him in the night and saw him attack Telle, slitting her throat. I thought she was dead. He rummaged through her bag and I saw him pull out an old tattered book. He opened the book and began to recite some kind of incantation. A green light swirled around and her body lifted from the ground. Beware, I believe she has become one of them.

My curious nature would like to follow some more, but I know that with this reveal they will surely come for me next.

My vote for tonight's lynching was going to be EagleFan, though as I said in a previous post I believe that there may be one person that these wolves serve and from what I've seen so far, it may be Alan. I don't have time to get caught up on all the discussion that's happened this morning already, but I already see that Alan is on the radar of some so I'll go with him today instead.

If they don't get me tonight we can get EF and Telle and pray that is all of them.

VOTE ALAN T

[The Jackal]

Now I know how Rocky felt in Rocky IV. I feel like I am training in Siberia for my match vs Ivan Drago (Hoopsguy)

http://www.retroclobber.co.uk/movie-t-shirts/images/tshirts/rocky-i-must-break-you-t-shirt-logo.gif

[Alan T]

I'll have to give it to Alan, though. He's made the past couple of hours interesting. Guys (and gals), vote for Alan. It's clear he's lying. Then we need to figure out if we can trust Hoops or not.


What have I said that was a lie? I've been pretty much straight forward with what I have said all morning. Like I said from the beginning, I don't mind if people vote for me as a net plus play in a logical progression, I probably would do the same thing if I didn't have any other information on anyone.. but to say I'm lying is pretty incorrect.

I think the most important question after today will be why Hoopsguy was trying to cover up for Racer.

[path12]

I have to say that I don't know whether or not I'm getting dumber or just older, but these three page statement parsing arguments just start blurring together for me.

What I was going to say was that we needed Racer to step up here and clarify his role. He has now done so.

VOTE ALAN T

I don't see any advantage or reason for two wolves to have to come out in order to get Alan killed -- especially this early in the game. I'm really surprised why anyone would go anywhere else right now. This tells us more than anything else IMO.

[Passacaglia]

Pass, I've got no problem with it if it is just a ploy of yours to create action on the vote. However, I think you know the two participants in this debate well enough to sort this out.

As I mentioned earlier, voting me out today means that you lose a day on getting a wolf. I think it hampers our ability to get another wolf tonight because Alan will be out and about (despite what he claims) because it is the right move for the wolves ... if I die a villager then he is a dead wolf walking the next day. So the seer is likely the only role who has a chance to net a new wolf.

I don't know about any ploy -- it's just like I've said, I want to make sure we don't lose the seer. If Alan is the brutal, we lose him either way, but if Alan is a wolf that turns up villager on death, then there's a good chance we lynch Racer. This is all IF you're telling the truth. If you're not telling the truth, voting for you gets us a wolf. It just seems like a good play from all angles.

[hoopsguy]

Heh - I'm flattered to be Drago.

MS, I'm pretty sure that is not all of them. But it is interesting that two of the people you mention (EF and Telle) are among the more stubborn in resisting my version of events from last night.

If this all falls into place then we are in very good shape for the next few days. And there should be some real value in voting records around EagleFan.

[Passacaglia]

That said, at least you aren't voting for Racer when the clear dispute is me vs Alan. So your vote isn't the one I hate the most at the moment. That would be RendeR's, who is know is a good guy to boot.

I'm oh-so-glad to be considered least hateable!

[hoopsguy]

Not least, just not most :)

[Alan T]

Heh - I'm flattered to be Drago.

MS, I'm pretty sure that is not all of them. But it is interesting that two of the people you mention (EF and Telle) are among the more stubborn in resisting my version of events from last night.

If this all falls into place then we are in very good shape for the next few days. And there should be some real value in voting records around EagleFan.


I don't have any comment one way or another about Mrs.Schmidty's story regarding Telle/Eaglefan but I'm bound to take her for face value. I knew I was watched the night before which is why I almost slipped up earlier outing that the role was out there. I don't know for sure if Mrs.Schmidty is the private eye or something else, but I knew Mrs.Schmidty was aware of my protective trance.

Since I know Mrs.Schmidty saw me the night before, I don't have any reason to believe what she is saying isn't true about last night. The only thing I do have to say is she mis-interpreted what she saw from me the night before, it simply was my protection so to speak. and if you followed me again tonight you would see the same thing.. Like I said before I haven't been lying about stuff.

So believe me or not, but I can help provide some validity to Mrs.Schmidty in that I knew she visited the night before as well.

[Racer]

I'm heading to work shortly and unfortunately won't be back in time for the vote and subsequent lynching tonight. I felt it was imperative to tell everyone what I saw the last two nights while you guys were sleeping in the library.

I have always been the adventurous type and don't scare easy. After we mistakenly lynched two of our own and the wolves killed one of us as well, I knew I couldn't sit back and do nothing.

At night I have been following a different person to see what they are up to in the dark of night. As a new member of our group, I wanted to be able to trust the one that seemed to have an established role of leadership. I chose to follow Alan more in a way to rule him out than catch him at anything sinister.

Our first night together I saw Alan in a corner of the library in some kind of meditative state and he was chanting in a low voice words I did not understand. A shiver went down my spine as I backed away. I don't know what Alan's intentions are or whom he serves, but it did not feel right. I had not mentioned it before because I feared bringing attention to myself before I knew more.

Chief said yesterday that I'm climbing on his list of suspects and I've noticed an uneasiness from some others as well. The majority seem to suspect EagleFan and PurdeuBrad so I decided since it may be my last night I would follow EF. I was scared, but for the good of the group I pressed on. I followed him in the night and saw him attack Telle, slitting her throat. I thought she was dead. He rummaged through her bag and I saw him pull out an old tattered book. He opened the book and began to recite some kind of incantation. A green light swirled around and her body lifted from the ground. Beware, I believe she has become one of them.

My curious nature would like to follow some more, but I know that with this reveal they will surely come for me next.

My vote for tonight's lynching was going to be EagleFan, though as I said in a previous post I believe that there may be one person that these wolves serve and from what I've seen so far, it may be Alan. I don't have time to get caught up on all the discussion that's happened this morning already, but I already see that Alan is on the radar of some so I'll go with him today instead.

If they don't get me tonight we can get EF and Telle and pray that is all of them.

VOTE ALAN T

So I think it's safe to assume Telle is also good then since there was no night kill. This also confirms what I thought your "oops" actually was and why I said nothing about it. I always get my PM's from Schmidty before he posts the night kill results so that's how I figured you knew you didn't die on day one.

[EagleFan]

Not that I know of - I would be happy to have him support my claims.

Seriously, Pass - two people are saying Alan is a wolf and you think I'm the right vote for today?

Two people? So far you are the only person and you are using a lot of subtle manipulation in your posts (like this one in which someone who may scan the posts without reading them all sees it and believes it.

[Alan T]

So if Mrs.Schmidty has this evidence about Eaglefan, why don't we just lynch him today instead, and that would give the real seer time to scan Hoopsguy and Racer to get all of the proof they need on them instead of going down this incorrect path of lynching me?

[Telle]

Umm.. as far as I know I was asleep all night. Not sure where Mrs. Schmidty's story came from.

[hoopsguy]

So I think it's safe to assume Telle is also good then since there was no night kill. This also confirms what I thought your "oops" actually was and why I said nothing about it. I always get my PM's from Schmidty before he posts the night kill results so that's how I figured you knew you didn't die on day one.

Think you have that wrong, based on MrsS's version of events. She was good, but has switched sides.

[hoopsguy]

Two people? So far you are the only person and you are using a lot of subtle manipulation in your posts (like this one in which someone who may scan the posts without reading them all sees it and believes it.

Two people - me and Racer. Alan may not like that Racer and I are working in conjunction, but the idea that we are both calling him a wolf is not really up for dispute.

For the moment I'm done trying to win your vote, based on Mrs Schmidty's accounting of events.

[Racer]

Wait a minute, rereading that post sounds like Telle was converted last night.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

So I think it's safe to assume Telle is also good then since there was no night kill. This also confirms what I thought your "oops" actually was and why I said nothing about it. I always get my PM's from Schmidty before he posts the night kill results so that's how I figured you knew you didn't die on day one.


I'm going to be so late to work...but I can't look away!

I saw EF kill Telle (slit her throat) then raise her body, after reading from a book in her bag, I don't think she's good.

[Telle]

Well I know this is really bad timing.. but I desperately need to go get myself some lunch before I pass out. Back in a bit.

[hoopsguy]

So if Mrs.Schmidty has this evidence about Eaglefan, why don't we just lynch him today instead, and that would give the real seer time to scan Hoopsguy and Racer to get all of the proof they need on them instead of going down this incorrect path of lynching me?

It is interesting that there hasn't been a counter-claim on seer up to this point. You would think that person would join you on your attempts to get Racer (and then me) lynched if we were usurping their role.

[hoopsguy]

Proposed COT (pending lynch results):

Trust: me, Racer, RendeR, Mrs Schmidty
Wolf: Alan, EagleFan, Telle

Note that both EagleFan and Telle have avoided putting votes on Alan up to this point and have persistently questioned my version (and Racer's) of events.

I suspect that this game is going to turn for us in a hurry. Especially after picking off the conversion from last night.

[Racer]

I'm going to be so late to work...but I can't look away!

I saw EF kill Telle (slit her throat) then raise her body, after reading from a book in her bag, I don't think she's good.

Yeah I missed that part. Dang, I almost would have waited to post that just so you could monitor Telle's behavior today and then reveal what you knew in the last 10 minutes or so.

So my circle of trust is now Render, Hoopsguy, Mrs.Schmidty, and myself.
The people I now know to be wolves are Telle and AlanT.

[hoopsguy]

Racer, if EagleFan slits Telle's throat, and brings her back to life, that sounds like someone worth adding to the wolf list.

[Alan T]

It is interesting that there hasn't been a counter-claim on seer up to this point. You would think that person would join you on your attempts to get Racer (and then me) lynched if we were usurping their role.

I agree fully actually. Usually when I play as seer if I can get one wolf, I figure it worth a reveal in some cases.. in this case they could help nab two wolves (unless you all are part of one of those third teams that was mentioned in the rules). So the only guess I have is they figure it is a foregone conclusion either way so no need to reveal since even if I am lynched today people will go after you and Racer tommorrow anyways. I assume they are just trying to figure out who else to scan as a wolf.

At this point I can vouch for Mrs.Schmidty though, so believe her when she says Telle and Eaglefan are bad, and with me knowing Hoopsguy and Racer are bad, I don't see any reason the seer shouldn't reveal personally.

[Alan T]

Proposed COT (pending lynch results):

Trust: me, Racer, RendeR, Mrs Schmidty
Wolf: Alan, EagleFan, Telle

Note that both EagleFan and Telle have avoided putting votes on Alan up to this point and have persistently questioned my version (and Racer's) of events.

I suspect that this game is going to turn for us in a hurry. Especially after picking off the conversion from last night.

Let me correct this for you! (just being helpful!)

Trust: Me, Mrs. Schmidty
Non-trust: Hoopsguy, Racer, Telle, Eaglefan.

[Racer]

Racer, if EagleFan slits Telle's throat, and brings her back to life, that sounds like someone worth adding to the wolf list.

Oh. I misread that then. I thought it was AlanT who did that.

[EagleFan]

vote hoops

[Alan T]

Oh. I misread that then. I thought it was AlanT who did that.

How could I do that?? I was busy being attacked by you last night!!

[Alan T]

Maybe this can help draw some momentum for a vote. Everyone seems to trust Mrs.Schmidty, lets kill Eaglefan whom she saw kill someone and then raise them last night. That will give people with special roles time to figure out Hoops is lying.

Unvote Racer

Vote Eaglefan

[hoopsguy]

Vote count, as of Post #922:

Alan - Hoops (894), Racer (724), KWhit (779), Olie (852), MS (895), Path (898)
Hoops - Pass (806), Telle (855), Eagle (920)
Racer - RendeR (741)
Eagle - Alan (922)

[Racer]

How could I do that?? I was busy being attacked by you last night!!

I misread the post. That's as good of an answer that I can give.

[hoopsguy]

No offense to Mrs Schmidty, but we have both me and Racer who condemn Alan. I would start there ... of course I would because I 100% trust me and less for anyone else in the game. Similarly, I would expect Mrs Schmidty to 100% trust her information and retain some skepticism for anyone else.

The votes for Alan should stay exactly where they are, in my opinion.

[hoopsguy]

By the way, my vote on Alan is 694, not 894.

[KWhit]

vote hoops

That's funny. Doesn't respond at all to Mrs.S's allegations, just submits a drive-by vote.

So, it seems to me the very likely set of wolves are AlanT, EagleFan, and Telle.

[hoopsguy]

Yeah, that vote had a "crap, these last two games have sucked!!!" feeling to it. Which I completely understand, as I was in tough spots as a wolf the last two games I played.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

Since I know Mrs.Schmidty saw me the night before, I don't have any reason to believe what she is saying isn't true about last night. The only thing I do have to say is she mis-interpreted what she saw from me the night before, it simply was my protection so to speak.

Another reason to not trust Alan...

From day 1 we know that our bodyguard uses martial arts, probably his major, not a pyschic ability.

[hoopsguy]

So if Mrs Schmidty is telling the truth, then it seems like Telle would have bled ...

And that there would be no kill ...

But I thought Alan was "mentally attacked" by Racer and bled all over the place?

Could we have two separate piles of blood???

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm sure Alan has deep and meaningful thoughts on this.

:popcorn:

[KWhit]

So the post I really would like to make is this:


Vote AlanT
Vote Nightfall

Vote EagleFan
Vote Nightfall

Vote Telle
Vote Nightfall



Can I do that?

:)

(Just slightly kidding.)

I don't think I have ever been in a game where we had 3 wolves outed at one time. Now, i'm not saying I believe 100% Hoops or Mrs.S. It's just funny to have so many potential wolves on the table at once.

[EagleFan]

Just when I thought thee was going to be a day without my name in the voting list...

[EagleFan]

thee = there

[KWhit]

Also, it's quite interesting that both Telle and EagleFan have votes on Hoops right now and not AlanT.

[EagleFan]

unvote hoops

vote Mrs Schmidty

[hoopsguy]

Eagle, it has to be at least a little comforting to be outed as a wolf and have the only vote on you coming from another wolf ... he can move it if you get in too much trouble!

[KWhit]

Eagle, it has to be at least a little comforting to be outed as a wolf and have the only vote on you coming from another wolf ... he can move it if you get in too much trouble!


:D

[Passacaglia]

So I'm wondering -- why would Alan let EF and Telle vote to save him? Why wouldn't he just let them pile on?

[hoopsguy]

It wasn't a slam dunk an hour ago, even if I felt like it should be.

But if I was the one cornered I would suggest to my partners that they run up the vote on me early and let me try to wiggle out. See if they can buy themselves some credibility by being among the first to vote for me. That doesn't appear to be what happened. Instead the two of them questioned me fairly aggressively and followed along with non-Alan votes when I didn't seem to be scoring an early-round TKO (to continue the Drago analogy).

In that respect, the idea of a close vote does appear to have provided some benefits. Even if it wasn't needed based on the info brought forward by Mrs Schmidty.

No, Alan, I did not just admit to being a wolf in the text above.

[Alan T]

Another reason to not trust Alan...

From day 1 we know that our bodyguard uses martial arts, probably his major, not a pyschic ability.

Mrs.Schmidty I have never said that I was the bodyguard and have actually tried hard to keep the bodyguard safe today.

[Alan T]

So I'm wondering -- why would Alan let EF and Telle vote to save him? Why wouldn't he just let them pile on?

Yeah, makes you wonder doesn't it? Like I said, if everyone is in agreeance that Mrs.Schmidty seems trusted, why not follow her lead and give the real roles time to figure out what they need to about Hoops and Racer and myself?

I don't get why Hoopsguy is pushing a horse today that he even admitted is a case of who do you believe between him or myself when we have someone who hasn't even seemed to try to defend himself with evidence that everyone seems ok with..

lets vote him out and let everyone else have time to figure out who to trust between Hoops and myself?

[Racer]

So I'm wondering -- why would Alan let EF and Telle vote to save him? Why wouldn't he just let them pile on?

I'm a little weary that AlanT, Mrs. Schmidty, EagleFan, and Telle are setting up Mrs. Schmidty to look really good. I seriously doubt it, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

Check that. I don't think the wolves would "out" two wolves (that weren't suspected previously) to make a third wolf really good when one wolf has already been "outed".

[hoopsguy]

A couple of reasons:
1.) Two people are saying you are a wolf, while Mrs Schmidty is saying 2-3 people are wolves (you are questionable for her)
2.) There is a respect factor in wanting to get rid of you when you are a wolf as soon as possible. Embrace it.

[Alan T]

How disappointing that the conversation is slowing down after a reveal that only helps further confirm my story and outs two wolves. By no means am I certain that Hoops and Racer are wolves, they very well may be one of these third party teams, but it is pretty apparent that they both are on the same team sharing PMs.

Since there is so much doubt about which way to play, why isn't anyone moving with me to get Eaglefan whom seems to pretty sure to be a wolf based on everything that anyone is saying?

[KWhit]

How disappointing that the conversation is slowing down after a reveal that only helps further confirm my story and outs two wolves.

How does it help confirm your story??

[Alan T]

How does it help confirm your story??

The fact she saw me there protecting myself at night when she tried to follow me? After the fact she pretty much stated that previously I had done exactly what I said I did on night 2 when Racer attacked me.

[hoopsguy]

How disappointing that the conversation is slowing down after a reveal that only helps further confirm my story and outs two wolves.

Can you show me how this helps your story of bleeding after being mentally attacked by Racer, and ergo immune to night kills?

So if Mrs Schmidty is telling the truth, then it seems like Telle would have bled ...

And that there would be no kill ...

But I thought Alan was "mentally attacked" by Racer and bled all over the place?

Could we have two separate piles of blood???

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm sure Alan has deep and meaningful thoughts on this.

:popcorn:

[Alan T]

Can you show me how this helps your story of bleeding after being mentally attacked by Racer, and ergo immune to night kills?

I guess you are having selective memory about my posts. I obviously was trying to figure out what all happened last night when I have been giving my assumptions about the evening. I spelled it out very clearly when you asked about the blood before in this previous post:

I don't know anything about this theme so you are asking the wrong person. I was told in my PM that Racer attacked me, I was in mental anguish and I fought him off. My PM said nothing about you, nothing about blood or anything else. I have to assume that there wasn't more than one night kill attempt though on the same night.

Unfortunately for me, I don't have the full knowledge of the wolf night moves like you do, so I can only make guesses. I am sure that you would like to present a different picture though.

[Alan T]

Unless now you are saying that Mrs.Schmidty made up her story to try to protect me somehow which I wouldn't put past you, but I doubt anyone would believe you on.

[EagleFan]

I'm out for a while. I'll be back later to try to figure out why Mrs. Schmidty would lie in such an elaborate manner.

Just a lowly student hee wit the ability to scan people every other night. I wondered why we would only get an every other night scan until the racer reveal. At least now I know why but the hoops thing puzzles me and the manipulation by Mrs Schmidty baffles me. I would like to thank the body guard for protecting me last night. No, it wasn't from an attack but I did receive word that I was protected and by whom. You did your best to help us win. Now the wolves have racer, myself and Telle on the verge of being eliminated. At least go after me before Telle so you can see that Mrs Schmidty is manipulting this. That way Telle doesn't die because of a lie (with that said I have no idea if Telle is a wolf or not but it would make sense if the wolfy Mrs. Schmidty is making this up that she tries to go after a couple villagers and not put one of her own in jeopardy).

If I live I will scan Mrs Schmidty tonight to most likely confirm that she is a wolf. At least that will be my going away gift for everyone if they are still intent on believng Mrs Schmidty (she needs a shorter name). What you do with that information is up to you. Who knows, maybe she is clean and the chanting that alan was doing was some wolfish power to make her believe what they want her to believe.

[KWhit]

I'm out for a while. I'll be back later to try to figure out why Mrs. Schmidty would lie in such an elaborate manner.

Just a lowly student hee wit the ability to scan people every other night. I wondered why we would only get an every other night scan until the racer reveal. At least now I know why but the hoops thing puzzles me and the manipulation by Mrs Schmidty baffles me. I would like to thank the body guard for protecting me last night. No, it wasn't from an attack but I did receive word that I was protected and by whom. You did your best to help us win. Now the wolves have racer, myself and Telle on the verge of being eliminated. At least go after me before Telle so you can see that Mrs Schmidty is manipulting this. That way Telle doesn't die because of a lie (with that said I have no idea if Telle is a wolf or not but it would make sense if the wolfy Mrs. Schmidty is making this up that she tries to go after a couple villagers and not put one of her own in jeopardy).

If I live I will scan Mrs Schmidty tonight to most likely confirm that she is a wolf. At least that will be my going away gift for everyone if they are still intent on believng Mrs Schmidty (she needs a shorter name). What you do with that information is up to you. Who knows, maybe she is clean and the chanting that alan was doing was some wolfish power to make her believe what they want her to believe.

So who have you scanned?

[Passacaglia]

Just a "lowly" student who can scan every other night? I don't think you know what "lowly" means!

[KWhit]

So who have you scanned?

Not that I believe you....

[Alan T]

Not that I believe you....


:D

[Telle]

I'm back but I still can't comprehend what Mrs. Schmidty's story is all about. If some conversion happened to me then I sure as hell don't know about it. I slept all night and did not wake up covered in blood or with a sutured neck or anything of the like.

[Passacaglia]

That said, at least you aren't voting for Racer when the clear dispute is me vs Alan. So your vote isn't the one I hate the most at the moment. That would be RendeR's, who is know is a good guy to boot.

I'm back but I still can't comprehend what Mrs. Schmidty's story is all about. If some conversion happened to me then I sure as hell don't know about it. I slept all night and did not wake up covered in blood or with a sutured neck or anything of the like.

Luckily you have a few days to figure something out. We've got a wolf backlog going on, but we'll get to you when we can! :D

[Passacaglia]

Don't know why hoops's quote ended up there. Weird.

[path12]

Just a "lowly" student who can scan every other night? I don't think you know what "lowly" means!

I must be underground then because I can't scan at all. :(

[PurdueBrad]

Lots of ways to go here. I'm still not quite sure about everything going on with the Hoops-Racer-Alan T. dynamic. I'm surprised about Hoops' ability to somehow communicate/eavesdrop on Racer basically and am surprised at Hoops outing Racer by name before Racer did so. As for Mrs.' revelation, Eaglefan and Telle seem like safer plays for us now but looking at the voting, I'm apparently wrong. I'll go with the group at this point and

vote Alan T

although again, I would prefer EF probably, especially given the possibility that he may be able to continue to convert people.

[EagleFan]

So who have you scanned?

PurdueBrad, hence he was on my trusted list.

[Alan T]

Hoopsguy, if you are going to be insistant on pushing everyone to incorrectly lynch me today, you at least owe me the right to ask you some questions today. Surely your gamesmanship would be willing to accomodate that since I likely won't have any opportunity to once I am justified from the grave...

So piecing things together, it seems pretty obvious that Eaglefan and Telle are the wolves... so what exactly does that make you? I finally figured it out I think in my head, so lets start some questions...

Since you are not a student, I assume you are the arcane collector? What exactly is your winning condition? (I wouldn't expect you to tell the truth here, by all means make up something that is student friendly if you must). Is there more on your team besides just Racer? if So, how many more?

I don't know if I expect you to answer any of those questions, but I know in the past when you've been busted as a wolf you've been more than happy to talk things up.. Figured you might do the same here. It is obvious why you have been so closed off about your information.. since you are NOT a student.

[hoopsguy]

Axxon - do you feel more comfortable with your voting options at this point?

RendeR - pretty different landscape now than when we were talking this morning. Hope that my answers helped, and I'm around to chat more when you are ready.

Henry - I think you've got a ton of reading to do here :)

Purdue - if Eagle is a wolf then how does that change your impressions from the first two days?

[Telle]

Luckily you have a few days to figure something out. We've got a wolf backlog going on, but we'll get to you when we can! :D

How do we NOT have a smirking smiley-face?

[Alan T]

Lots of ways to go here. I'm still not quite sure about everything going on with the Hoops-Racer-Alan T. dynamic. I'm surprised about Hoops' ability to somehow communicate/eavesdrop on Racer basically and am surprised at Hoops outing Racer by name before Racer did so. As for Mrs.' revelation, Eaglefan and Telle seem like safer plays for us now but looking at the voting, I'm apparently wrong. I'll go with the group at this point and

vote Alan T

although again, I would prefer EF probably, especially given the possibility that he may be able to continue to convert people.

I think you should go with your gut and vote where you think you should. Don't forget Chief Rum also has a vote on eaglefan, so you would be #3.

Why does anyone want to believe lies that Hoopsguy and Racer as third parties with their own winning conditions want to give you about me, when Mrs.Schmidty has provided us two wolves that seem a much more sure deal??

[KWhit]

Luckily you have a few days to figure something out. We've got a wolf backlog going on, but we'll get to you when we can! :D

I laughed.

[KWhit]

I think you should go with your gut and vote where you think you should. Don't forget Chief Rum also has a vote on eaglefan, so you would be #3.

Why does anyone want to believe lies that Hoopsguy and Racer as third parties with their own winning conditions want to give you about me, when Mrs.Schmidty has provided us two wolves that seem a much more sure deal??

WTF?

Clearly desparation here?

[Racer]

Vote review from Day 1. Please feel free to chime in with thoughts on this:

McCollins votes for Oliegirl (random.org) - post #125 1-0 Oliegirl leads
Racer votes Axxon (respects his wolf game) - post #128 1-1 Olie/Axxon
AlanT votes Hoops (payback) - post #134 1-1-1 Olie/Axxon/Hoops
Eagle votes Hoops (LOLcat) - post #136 2-1-1 Hoops/Olie/Axxon
Clap votes PB (just because) - post #141 2-1-1-1 Hoops leads
Jets vote McCollins (pretty random) - post #142 2-1-1-1-1 Hoops leads
Path votes LSG (welcome back) - post #145 2-1-1-1-1-1 Hoops leads
RendeR votes Clap (deserves D1 vote) - post #146 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 Hoops leads
Henry votes RendeR (Bengals fan) - post #148 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 Hoops leads
Jackal votes PB (discussion/consolidation) - post #150 2-2 Hoops/PB
Alan unvotes Hoops, votes Eagle (negate run) - post #155 2-many PB leads
Telle votes McCollins (random/gut) - post #176 2-2 PB/McCollins
PB votes Clap (no reason given) - post #181 2-2-2 PB/McCollins/Clap
LSG votes Path (he picks on her) - post #185 2-2-2 PB/McCollins/Clap
Olie votes McCollins (he voted for her) - post #187 3-2-2 McCollins/PB/Clap
Henry unvotes RendeR, votes McCollins (consolidate) - post #191 4-2-2 McCollins/PB/Clap
Hoops votes Eagle (he voted for him 2nd) - post #197 - post #197 4-2-2-2 McCollins/PB/Clap/Eagle
Path unvotes LSG, votes Eagle (2nd vote player, Jackal not a candidate) - post #203 4-3-2-2 McC/Eagle/PB/Clap
PB unvotes Clap, votes Eagle (tie it up) - post #204 4-4-2 McC/Eagle/PB
Axxon votes Racer (respect) - post #212 4-4-2 McC/Eagle/PB
RendeR unvotes Clap, votes PB (3 horse race) - post #214 4-4-3 McC/Eagle/PB
Pass votes PB (agrees with RendeR) - post #222 4-4-4 McC/Eagle/PB
Mrs S votes Jets (random.org) - post #240 4-4-4 McC/Eagle/PB
Axxon unvotes Racer, votes PB (no reason given) - post #246 5-4-4 PB/McC/Eagle
KWhit votes Mccollins (watching late moves) - post #284 5-5-4 PB/McC/Eagle
Racer votes PB (more wary of him than McC) - post #286 6-5-4 PB/McC/Eagle
Chief votes McC (McC votes for him regularly) - post #287 6-6-4 PB/McC/Eagle
Jackal unvotes PB, votes Eagle (spice things up) - post #293 6-5-5 McC/PB/Eagle
Clap unvotes PB, votes Eagle (take this to 2?) - post #299 6-6-4 McC/Eagle/PB
Eagle unvotes Hoops, votes McCollins (self-preserve) - post 3316 7-6-4 McC/Eagle/PB


Reposting what Hoopsguy posted the other day. I put "hmm (both good and bad)" votes in bold (votes that help EagleFan escape) if that player is not currently in my Circle of Trust.

Players who did not have a vote on McCollins, PurdueBrad, or EagleFan when it was a 4-4-4 tie:

McCollins, Racer, EagleFan, LSG, Axxon, Kwhit, Chief Rum, and Mrs.Schmidty.

McCollins is dead, EagleFan is presumed to be bad, and Mrs.Schmidy is now in my circle of trust.

That leaves LSG, Axxon, Kwhit, and Chief Rum as possible players who were laying off of the big three in case EF needed to be saved. Not saying any of those four players are bad, but definitely players to flag.

[Alan T]

WTF?

Clearly desparation here?


Not at all, let's see if Hoopsguy tells the truth or not here. If you think he is a student, you're wrong.

[Racer]

Sorry, I should have also put Pass's vote for PB in bold also.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I'm a student with a role. No 3rd party here. This is just the kind of stuff I was talking about earlier in terms of trying to confuse the issues.

Since Racer and I are students, I'm aligned with the majority of people in what I understand to be a two-faction game.

I've got no comments on the role that I possess because I do want to make things harder for the wolves as they are making decisions over the next couple of nights. Between Mrs Schmidty and Racer, I don't think I'm the logical choice to come gunning for, but even giving the name of a role would allow the wolves (your teammates) to make more educated guesses on my importance, or lack thereof. If the only thing I can do is receive PMs from Racer then I'm not very important, right? But if I can do more then maybe they should come looking for me. Nope, no role reveal quite yet.

[PurdueBrad]

Purdue - if Eagle is a wolf then how does that change your impressions from the first two days?

Looking back quickly, the voting trends for EF and Alan aren't great. Although Alan was on EF early on day 2 and stayed there even though it was close. I didn't get the feeling that the wolves had to do a lot of manipulation but maybe they did in order to keep EF from being a run away.

I've had Racer vote on me two days and you vote on me a day and knowing what I know about me, that does disturb me as well and doesn't necessarily garner any trust from me towards that cause.

In fact, that is probably making a switch from Alan to EF more likely for me.

[Alan T]

Alan, I'm a student with a role. No 3rd party here. This is just the kind of stuff I was talking about earlier in terms of trying to confuse the issues.

Since Racer and I are students, I'm aligned with the majority of people in what I understand to be a two-faction game.

I've got no comments on the role that I possess because I do want to make things harder for the wolves as they are making decisions over the next couple of nights. Between Mrs Schmidty and Racer, I don't think I'm the logical choice to come gunning for, but even giving the name of a role would allow the wolves (your teammates) to make more educated guesses on my importance, or lack thereof. If the only thing I can do is receive PMs from Racer then I'm not very important, right? But if I can do more then maybe they should come looking for me. Nope, no role reveal quite yet.

I'm dissapointed in you Hoops. Not only are you getting people to kill an innocent villager (and likely getting away with it when there are two wolves revealed for people to go after), but you're also not being gaming about it. I assume your winning condition has you surving till then end then?

[hoopsguy]

Heh, I play with my toys when I'm an outed wolf. I play to win as a villager, particularly on Day 3.

[Passacaglia]

Sorry, I should have also put Pass's vote for PB in bold also.

If I wanted to help EagleFan escape, wouldn't I have voted for Mickey C?

[Racer]

Looking back quickly, the voting trends for EF and Alan aren't great. Although Alan was on EF early on day 2 and stayed there even though it was close. I didn't get the feeling that the wolves had to do a lot of manipulation but maybe they did in order to keep EF from being a run away.

I've had Racer vote on me two days and you vote on me a day and knowing what I know about me, that does disturb me as well and doesn't necessarily garner any trust from me towards that cause.

In fact, that is probably making a switch from Alan to EF more likely for me.

I would have voted for Clap on day two if I needed too (because he was the one I felt worse about). However, since my vote wasn't needed, I decided to stay on you because if by small chance I was killed at night that would let everyone know that I didn't scan you on night one.

[PurdueBrad]

Actually, looking at this. I am changing my vote. Here is what I foresee happening. IF we lynch EF, letting the Hoops-Racer-Alan T thing settle for a day, either Hoops or Racer will be night-killed because of the importance of their roles and then we take out Alan OR Hoops and Racer survive the night which will look very odd and probably lead to a similar day of discussion. But I'm going to go after EF now, which would clear Mrs. Schmidty, likely out Telle, and keep things going from there. It seems more clear cut that way. As Hoops said earlier, sometimes the simplest play is the right play (paraphrasing of course).

unvote Alan T.

vote Eaglefan

[RendeR]

Hoops: I hope you understand when I say this: "I will NEVER under penalty of having my nads ripped up and out of my body via insertion of a red hot wire through my NOSE...EVER trust you in a 1-1 choice."

Alan: I trust you only a cold wire better than I trust hoops.

Racer: Why did you choose to scan ME on day 1? its an odd choice at best when there are far better players available to choose for a night 1 scan.

Frankly, I'm looking at the hoops/alan mess and going W T F? Then Mrs. S comes along with her very elegantly written story and drops two more wolves into the mix. Either we're VERY lucky, or we're so overmatched by the wolf players right now that we might as well just give in and suckle at Cthulu's teat.

Lets do this: Lynch Eaglefan, this will give us definitive answers on Mrs. S and Telle.

We can then let the BG protect Racer (if he is indeed the seer) and get a scan on hoops or alan. Tomorrow we see where all the fur flies and we move on from there.

Make sense?


UNVOTE RACER
VOTE EAGLEFAN

[Alan T]

Heh, I play with my toys when I'm an outed wolf. I play to win as a villager, particularly on Day 3.

I don't blame you. If I was in your situation I wouldn't reveal my side either.. especially since things look great for you right now.. even when I die and end up a villager, you end up being able to convince people to go after Eaglefan and Telle the next two days.

[RendeR]

Actually, looking at this. I am changing my vote. Here is what I foresee happening. IF we lynch EF, letting the Hoops-Racer-Alan T thing settle for a day, either Hoops or Racer will be night-killed because of the importance of their roles and then we take out Alan OR Hoops and Racer survive the night which will look very odd and probably lead to a similar day of discussion. But I'm going to go after EF now, which would clear Mrs. Schmidty, likely out Telle, and keep things going from there. It seems more clear cut that way. As Hoops said earlier, sometimes the simplest play is the right play (paraphrasing of course).

unvote Alan T.

vote Eaglefan


You just earned my trust for today =)

[hoopsguy]

Alan, after re-reading the PM I got about you last night I don't see any explicit calls to R'ley.

That is about the best thing I can say about you. All the other stuff about nausea and blackness don't make you out to be a saint, to say the least.

I 100% refuse to believe you are a villager. So good luck convincing others to follow onto EagleFan (real good bet he is bad as well) but I'm sticking where I'm at.

[PurdueBrad]

You just earned my trust for today =)

That scares me since I voted for you last night! ;)

No, I agree with your thinking completely in your previous post.

[Racer]

If I wanted to help EagleFan escape, wouldn't I have voted for Mickey C?

Pass, I'm not making any accusations, just pointing out players to look at more closely which is any player that put a vote on anyone other then EagleFan late and hasn't been cleared.

[Axxon]

Reposting what Hoopsguy posted the other day. I put "hmm (both good and bad)" votes in bold (votes that help EagleFan escape) if that player is not currently in my Circle of Trust.

Players who did not have a vote on McCollins, PurdueBrad, or EagleFan when it was a 4-4-4 tie:

McCollins, Racer, EagleFan, LSG, Axxon, Kwhit, Chief Rum, and Mrs.Schmidty.

McCollins is dead, EagleFan is presumed to be bad, and Mrs.Schmidy is now in my circle of trust.

That leaves LSG, Axxon, Kwhit, and Chief Rum as possible players who were laying off of the big three in case EF needed to be saved. Not saying any of those four players are bad, but definitely players to flag.

For what it's worth I did give my reason but I had to wait until the second game was over to do it as my reasoning had to do with PB's play style in that game. Just setting the record straight.

[Passacaglia]

How will the hoops-Alan-Racer thing settle, with a day extra? If Alan is a wolf, if we don't do anything about it now he'll just keep both of them alive, knowing that killing either of them will kill himself. And we'll be back where we are today. I don't care which we do, but I don't see why it's BETTER to vote EagleFan today.

[EagleFan]

Go through my post history this game and you will see how consistant I was and how un-wolflike I have been. I voted a random day one vote that got jumped on as a pile on vote though the vote was seconds appart from the first vote. The only move I made that day was a self preservation vote.

Day 2 I tried to reveal my scan without having to actually spell it out. Myh first vote that day was semi-preservation against another candidate who was in the running and my final vote was self preservation vote.

I couldn't scan anyone night 2 and was glad to find that the body guard picked up my signals and protected me when I got a PM saying that I felt a protective aura during the night with a vision of the protector, who will remain anonymous for the sake of us students.

Day 3 started with the weird reveals coming out and I was rather skeptical of what was going on. I still wonder if both alan and hoops are wolves. I then put two and two together for why my power was only every other day which I thought rather odd when I got the initial PM as it seemed like we would be under-powered with an every other day scan.

Let my actions speak for themselves and vote as you will. If I get lynched, that is fine but you will be taking down one of your own. I'll still be on the sideline cheering for the students with no hard feelings.


If it matters:

CoT:
PurdueBrad
Racer - I think he is legit and was discovered during a scan which means that Alan is definitely a wolf but hoops may be in on this with him, maybe along with Mrs Schmidty (it took her a while to come up with that story, kind of like she was given something by a veteran wolf to say, which also goes along with her early I live response and convenient explanations for it; which have now changed from he told me to I got my other PM)


CoD:
Mrs Schmidty - I think she is being coached and the wolves figured out my reveal on day two and have come up with a plan to potentially get rid of both students with seer abilities if they put distrust on racer and myself)
Alan T - fangs in there
hoops - 3rd party to this ruse? Put him and Alan on the same team and you are bound to get somethign very creative going on when they can work together instead of against each other

[Alan T]

Alan, after re-reading the PM I got about you last night I don't see any explicit calls to R'ley.

That is about the best thing I can say about you. All the other stuff about nausea and blackness don't make you out to be a saint, to say the least.

I 100% refuse to believe you are a villager. So good luck convincing others to follow onto EagleFan (real good bet he is bad as well) but I'm sticking where I'm at.

I'll take your changing your story as a subtle nod then. It looks like two games in a row where you got the best of me when I've been a villager, good show. I wish you the best in the rest of this one. :) I'm still holding out hope on a day where there are at least two wolves revealed, and a few third party members that we don't end up lynching a villager (me) somehow though!

[hoopsguy]

Updated vote count, as of Post #983:

Alan - Hoops (694), Racer (724), KWhit (779), Olie (852), MS (895), Path (898)
Eagle - Alan (922), Purdue (976), RendeR (977)
Hoops - Pass (806), Telle (855)
Mrs Schmidty - Eagle (935)

[Passacaglia]

Pass, I'm not making any accusations, just pointing out players to look at more closely which is any player that put a vote on anyone other then EagleFan late and hasn't been cleared.

I hear ya -- last night I posted a list of double-villager-killers, which was CR, EF, and Telle. EF got pretty defensive about that, and if Telle was converted, it doesn't really apply to her.

[Alan T]

How will the hoops-Alan-Racer thing settle, with a day extra? If Alan is a wolf, if we don't do anything about it now he'll just keep both of them alive, knowing that killing either of them will kill himself. And we'll be back where we are today. I don't care which we do, but I don't see why it's BETTER to vote EagleFan today.

You just said it right there..

1) If I am a wolf, you say I keep both hoopsguy and Racer alive another day or two while Telle and Eaglefan are killed to provide doubt and supposedly this seer should be able to provide you more scans.

2) if I am a villager, then I obviously have no ability to kill either of them anyhows and the real roles have some time to figure things out.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, are you still immune from night kills at this point now that a 3rd party has emerged? I'm just trying to keep up with your version of the events.

[hoopsguy]

And, at what point do we accept that Racer is the seer given the lack of a counter?

If Racer is in fact the seer, then why would he and I double-team you?

[hoopsguy]

RendeR, it sounds like we still have some work to do on our WW relationship. But every once and awhile we actually are on the same team.

[oliegirl]

If Hoops was lying, wouldn't Racer somehow know and have disputed what Hoops said? Not defending hoops here, just asking a simple question. I'm still not sure if my vote on AlanT is going to last until deadline

[Alan T]

I'm still sticking to my story, just was hoping now that you have some breathing room with Mrs.Schmidty's reveal that you could be a little more truthful about your account of things is all. You know as well as I do that you don't know one way or another if I am a wolf or villager, it was a suspicion I had this morning but only became evident after a few other things happened today.

Heck, if you actually did tell the truth, I might even gurantuee you that I won't vote for you the rest of the game.. but obviously there is something about your role that you don't want the rest of the students to know :)

[Passacaglia]

RendeR, it sounds like we still have some work to do on our WW relationship. But every once and awhile we actually are on the same team.

Not this again...good thing Barkeep isn't here, at least.

Anyway hoops, what's your opinion on voting EF?

[hoopsguy]

Olie, it is OK to defend me when I'm a villager. No reason to apologize for it :)

[EagleFan]

Looking back quickly, the voting trends for EF and Alan aren't great. Although Alan was on EF early on day 2 and stayed there even though it was close. I didn't get the feeling that the wolves had to do a lot of manipulation but maybe they did in order to keep EF from being a run away.

I've had Racer vote on me two days and you vote on me a day and knowing what I know about me, that does disturb me as well and doesn't necessarily garner any trust from me towards that cause.

In fact, that is probably making a switch from Alan to EF more likely for me.

What about my voting record is odd? People keep saying this but there has not been one thing said to back it up other than the 2nd vote thing on hoops which happened within seconds of the 1st vote so there is no way it was a pile on vote but a presumed day one first vote. My voting history has been all defensive this game as I kept being on the chopping block. That would be like watching a team only when they have to play goal line defense and thinking that you know how their entire defensive plan works (unless you are the Patriots and have been taping all along ;) ).

[RendeR]

RendeR, it sounds like we still have some work to do on our WW relationship. But every once and awhile we actually are on the same team.


Oh I understand completely that there are times we will be on the same team. That in no way means I will ever trust you until PROVEN trustworthy =)

Nothing against you personally , but you've earned every ounce of my distrust.

Currently I'm leaning away from you on this, but it doesn't mean I'd choose you over anyone else in a 1-1 vote off right now =)

Just take it as a sign of resept and accept that you will probably NEVER sway me to take your word over anyone elses anytime soon.:hand:

[EagleFan]

If Hoops was lying, wouldn't Racer somehow know and have disputed what Hoops said? Not defending hoops here, just asking a simple question. I'm still not sure if my vote on AlanT is going to last until deadline

If hoops is a wolf along with alan they would know about the scan if alan was told. Of course hoops could claim knowledge of the scan as he would be backed up by racer if racer chose to reveal. The curious thing is that hoops immediately outed racer as the seer.

Take a look at how the day started and tell me that you don't see something fishy between alan and hoops.

[hoopsguy]

Not this again...good thing Barkeep isn't here, at least.

Anyway hoops, what's your opinion on voting EF?

Not the worst thing in the world, but since I have a PM that shows me Alan is bad I'm inclined to treat that as absolute truth while Mrs Schmidty's "two for the price of one" is relative truth to me for now.

Also, I don't think there is much reason to think that Eagle is going to be able to run another conversion tonight if we leave him until tomorrow. I guess I could be wrong on this, but there has only been one game I've seen that allowed back-to-back conversions. That was Schmidty's "Thing" game and I don't think he would go to that mechanic a second time.

I guess my thought is that not all wolves are created equal, in terms of abilities and players. I don't know which one is the better choice if they are both wolves, which leads me back to "pick the wolf I know".

If other people aren't going that way I understand, but you won't see me changing votes today.