Werewolf XCVII - Labyrinth II (GAME OVER - COMMONERS WIN!)

[The Jackal]

A BOOMING ROAR echoes through the Labyrinth.

This can only mean one thing - the Minotaur has begun to move.

[Thomkal]

Before it gets asked, role reveals will occur on death.

I quote this because I was expecting even if Dubb is the phoenix, I would have expected a role reveal because he did die.

[Thomkal]

You'll find out at the next phase, won't you? :popcorn:

I guess we will you wacky Jester you. :D

[The Jackal]

I quote this because I was expecting even if Dubb is the phoenix, I would have expected a role reveal because he did die.

I know I said that, and I'm really just having some fun with you. I think I made it fairly clear he was the Phoenix in the post and most of you have surmised that, if you guys need me to confirm it I will since I did say so in the rules.

And just an FYI - all night abilities (including the NK) get returned at the noon deadline, along with noon movements. You may factor this into your lynch voting however you like.

[The Jackal]

Will try to clarify this for all in case anyone is still confused, please ask questions if you have 'em.

When you move in a direction, you orientate that way. So if you have the option to move straight or right and you move right, you turn towards the right. Any options you have from that room are based on facing in that direction.

And here's how the timeline works (with 9 as the start point since that's where we are)

9 PM - Movement and Lynch deadline (all movements due by 9)
9 PM - 12 PM noon - All night actions need to be submitted.
12 PM - Movement deadline (yes, you have two moves per day) and night actions processed

I'll be around for any questions.

[Thomkal]

okay sorry to be so pig-headed about that, but I just didn't want us all walking down the "Dubb is the Phoenix" path if there was no reason to.

[The Jackal]

okay sorry to be so pig-headed about that, but I just didn't want us all walking down the "Dubb is the Phoenix" path if there was no reason to.

All good, I should've just said it in the first place. But the Jester has to establish his character, don't you know.

[The Jackal]

OK - Anyone that submitted a movement should have been moved. Next moves are due by noon. Enjoy.

[Thomkal]

All good, I should've just said it in the first place. But the Jester has to establish his character, don't you know.

He certainly has, so please don't turn me into a pig now. :D

[Autumn]

Well, I'm heading out. Hopefully there will be something tomorrow to base a vote on. Later.

[The Jackal]

TICK

[The Jackal]

TICK

[The Jackal]

TICK.

[The Jackal]

TICK..

[The Jackal]

TICK...

[The Jackal]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/10891/huge_explosion.jpg

[The Jackal]

The Inferno Device has been activated!

Lathum is blown to smitherines!

Lathum was the Ancient of Earth!

[Chief Rum]

Umm...

[Chief Rum]

The Inferno Device has been activated!

Lathum is blown to smitherines!

Lathum was the Ancient of Earth!


Wow!

Okay, I am feeling a lot better about Martin now.

I wonder if the Inferno activator will come out? I know there's a role that searches for it, but I forget who that is.

[ntndeacon]

It worked!

[Lathum]

umm

[Chief Rum]

It worked!

You did this, ntn?

[ntndeacon]

Yes I did. I had to decide immediately on finding it.

[Chief Rum]

umm

lmao...u got done 'sploded! :lol:

[Chief Rum]

Yes I did. I had to decide immediately on finding it.

So what's your role again?

(and good job...)

[Lathum]

2 games in a row a villager made a boneheaded move and got lucky.

[Tyrith]

Well, at least this time I'm on the correct side of dumb luck.

[Danny]

Sorry guys, my Internet went down and just came back up 15 minutes or so ago. Looks like we had a great day as far as results.

[Chief Rum]

2 games in a row a villager made a boneheaded move and got lucky.

What was boneheaded about choosing to find the device in you, and finding it? ntn made the right choice to look for it in you (apparently), and then he made another right choice in exploding you. Not like you were without suspicion today.

Admittedly you're always "under suspicion", but if you have a problem with that, you may need to change your play style. ;)

[Barkeep49]

2 games in a row a villager made a boneheaded move and got lucky.
Assuming Martin is Nostra then it's not stupid at all.

[Lathum]

What was boneheaded about choosing to find the device in you, and finding it? ntn made the right choice to look for it in you (apparently), and then he made another right choice in exploding you. Not like you were without suspicion today.

Admittedly you're always "under suspicion", but if you have a problem with that, you may need to change your play style. ;)

It's a bonehead move on D1 to kill an unknown player, the odds are OVERWHELMING that it will be a villager and in a game where everyone has a role it's an even worse move.

[Chief Rum]

It's a bonehead move on D1 to kill an unknown player, the odds are OVERWHELMING that it will be a villager and in a game where everyone has a role it's an even worse move.

Actually, there were already four "cleared" people, with the telepaths and dubb. And ntn wasn't going to search himself. And there are four wolves (assuming all roles) and the Minotaur doesn't seem much help to anyone either. That's more than a 35% chance that ntn's "random" choice was a good one, and the odds are good it would not be one of the top villager roles.

Add on top of that that ntn had to make a decision right away and had found the device in you, a person of suspicion, it seems to me it was an understandable call, and not boneheaded at all. And of course it ended up being brilliant.

[Danny]

I. Lathum - blown up by the inferno device night 1 - Ancient of Earth
II. dubb93 - lynched day 1 - Phoenix
III. RendeR
IV. ntndeacon - Inferno Hunter
V. Autumn
VI. Abe Sargent
VII. Schmidty
VIII. JAG
IX. hoopsguy - Telepath
X. lerriuqs
XI. Danny - Telepath
XII. Barkeep49
XIII. Chief Rum
XIV. Tyrith
XV. MartinD
XVI. Thomkal
XVII. Passacaglia
XVIII. DaddyTorgo - Telepath
XIX. nfg22

[Danny]

dubb 8 (BK 102, Autumn 141, Martin 158, Abe 165, Pass 167, ntn 185, lerriuqs 190, hoops 198)
Martin 7 (nfg 135, Lathum 144, JAG 154, Chief Rum 178, Tyrith 184, RendeR 191, Schmidty 207)
BK 2 (dubb 103, Thomkal 146)

Not Voted - DT, Danny

[Lathum]

threadjack over, it's a poor move

[Chief Rum]

threadjack over, it's a poor move

:cool:

[Danny]

Also to note MartinD casted the second vote on Lathum and Lathum voted for MartinD helping him to be a candidate. I think it is unlikely MartinD puts that vote on Lathum as a wolf and vice verse, so while he is not cleared, we can probably look elsewhere for now.

Before my internet went down I considered voting Lathum because of his initial comment stating it was strange people checked in as vanilla villagers. Its something I didn't notice at all. BK agreed with lathum here which I also found odd as I still hadn't noticed this. BK might be someone worth checking out.

[Danny]

Vote count as of post #150

Lathum 2 (ntn 99, Martin 127)
dubb 2 (BK 102, Autumn 141)
Martin 2 (nfg 135, Lathum 144)
BK 2 (dubb 103, Thomkal 146)
ntn 1 (Tyrith 92)

I'm interested in seeing who broke this tie and established Dubb and Martin as the two candidates.

[Passacaglia]

FYI, my read was that Martin was Nostradamus also -- another part of why I voted dubb (thinking back to the reason I gave, the fact that hoops is cleared puts a damper on that line of thinking, but the Nostradamus angle was still valid). I also thought the night deadline was midnight, not noon. Whoops.

[Danny]

#151 Abe voted Dubb and broke the four way tie
#154 Jag voted Martin D and broke the three way tie with him, Lathum and Barkeep
#158 Martin unvoted Lathum and voted Dubb.

At this point the vote is 4-3 Dubb/Martin

Then in #162 Abe unvoted Dubb and voted Schmidty. This happened after Lathum had been dropped from the main discussion and only had one vote.

Then in #165 Abe unvoted Schmidty and voted Dubb again since Schmidty checked in.

After that candidates were pretty clearly established, so it's hard to read much into any votes at that point.

I think a wolf would want to establish and early vote on Dubb especially with Lathum potentially on the block and his vote already on Martin.

Because of this, my suspicion list is primarly BK, Autumn, Abe and Jag. BK and Autumn for their early voted on Dubb and Abe and Jag for establishing Martin and Dubb as the candidates instead of Lathum.

[ntndeacon]

12 am is midnight. :D

I will say it was luck that the inferno device was in Lathum. I will reserve all other comments and reasons for doing what I did until after ithe game is over and hopefully we win.

[Chief Rum]

#151 Abe voted Dubb and broke the four way tie
#154 Jag voted Martin D and broke the three way tie with him, Lathum and Barkeep
#158 Martin unvoted Lathum and voted Dubb.

At this point the vote is 4-3 Dubb/Martin

Then in #162 Abe unvoted Dubb and voted Schmidty. This happened after Lathum had been dropped from the main discussion and only had one vote.

Then in #165 Abe unvoted Schmidty and voted Dubb again since Schmidty checked in.

After that candidates were pretty clearly established, so it's hard to read much into any votes at that point.

I think a wolf would want to establish and early vote on Dubb especially with Lathum potentially on the block and his vote already on Martin.

Because of this, my suspicion list is primarly BK, Autumn, Abe and Jag. BK and Autumn for their early voted on Dubb and Abe and Jag for establishing Martin and Dubb as the candidates instead of Lathum.

Something to consdier: aren't there a couple roles that can't be lynched? That power would tend to remove that player's desire to avoid suspicious votes. He wouldn't really care then and would simply vote how he felt.

[Schmidty]

2 games in a row a villager made a boneheaded move and got lucky.

You know what? I've been silent about this so far, asshole. But I'm sick and tired of your whiny ass bitching. You sound like a fucking broken record, and it's getting old. You want to get on my ass, fine. But to keep insulting me is beyond rude. Shut the fuck up already.

I did what I did because of the posts that Tyrith made within the hour or so before the lynch (and his prior ones), and the fact that he was OBVIOUSLY pushing me in a certain direction. I made a call, and I wouldn't regret it even if I had gotten it wrong. If you don't like it, shove it up your ass.

I disagree with you a lot, but I've always liked you too. But at this point, I'm tired of your act. You are an asshole.

[lerriuqs]

Just a note for tomorrow - I'm hoping to be home tomorrow before the Day 2 deadline but I won't be around at 12 noon to see the results of the night. I'll be out all day, but I can't guarantee I'll be around at 9 tomorrow night...

[Lathum]

You know what? I've been silent about this so far, asshole. But I'm sick and tired of your whiny ass bitching. You sound like a fucking broken record, and it's getting old. You want to get on my ass, fine. But to keep insulting me is beyond rude. Shut the fuck up already.

I did what I did because of the posts that Tyrith made within the hour or so before the lynch (and his prior ones), and the fact that he was OBVIOUSLY pushing me in a certain direction. I made a call, and I wouldn't regret it even if I had gotten it wrong. If you don't like it, shove it up your ass.

I disagree with you a lot, but I've always liked you too. But at this point, I'm tired of your act. You are an asshole.

I'm sorry, do you actually play these games or just sign up, never check in, miss deadlines and votes, then get ass backwards lucky on a dumb fuck play only a pea brained moron would make?

The most amazing thing about the play you made last game was you were actually around to make it.

[Lathum]

dola- I guess you have a right to be annoyed, you actually contributed something for the first time is 4 years and I should have been proud of you for making that breakthrough.

Well done.

[Schmidty]

I'm sorry, do you actually play these games or just sign up, never check in, miss deadlines and votes, then get ass backwards lucky on a dumb fuck play only a pea brained moron would make?

The most amazing thing about the play you made last game was you were actually around to make it.

You are literally the biggest douchebag since Blade.

I have a life. Maybe I shouldn't have played WW as much in the past, but I think the biggest thing is that you should GET a life.

Wow. I'm sad. I actually realized that you truly are an ass. It's not just a WW thing. Very disappointing.

[Lathum]

You are literally the biggest douchebag since Blade.

I have a life. Maybe I shouldn't have played WW as much in the past, but I think the biggest thing is that you should GET a life.

Wow. I'm sad. I actually realized that you truly are an ass. It's not just a WW thing. Very disappointing.

I know right, but hey, maybe I am around because I can afford a washer and dryer so I don't need to grab some quarters and hit the tub-o-subs.

and way to insult all the other people who post alot, many who post more then I do.

[Schmidty]

I really hope we can have a Seattle FOFC get-together we were planning before. I would really like that right now.

[Schmidty]

[QUOTE=Lathum;2056394]I know right, but hey, maybe I am around because I can afford a washer and dryer so I don't need to grab some quarters and hit the tub-o-subs./QUOTE]

My washer just died. I can't put it in on my own in one day. I already have one being delivered. Why I'm telling you that, I have no idea.

You are truly a mean, pathetic little man. I can't believe I ever respected you.

[Lathum]

I really hope we can have a Seattle FOFC get-together we were planning before. I would really like that right now.

you opened this can of worms, I have every right to my opinion on how people play the game.

[Lathum]

[QUOTE=Lathum;2056394]I know right, but hey, maybe I am around because I can afford a washer and dryer so I don't need to grab some quarters and hit the tub-o-subs./QUOTE]

My washer just died. I can't put it in on my own in one day. I already have one being delivered. Why I'm telling you that, I have no idea.

You are truly a mean, pathetic little man. I can't believe I ever respected you.

dude, you attacked me. Not my fault you are so insecure you can't handle people being critical of your play.

[Abe Sargent]

Hot damn!

[Lathum]

dola- then went on to tell me to get a life, etc...

did you think I would react favorably? And in a few hours or a day you will apologize for blowing up, make some lame Schmidty excuse and apologize like every other time you have blown up because you are a spineless little bitch.

[Abe Sargent]

threadjack over, it's a poor move

You don't get a final last word on your way out. Come back post-game Ancient!

[Chief Rum]

Great huh? A fight between a live dead guy and a dead live guy.

It's like matter and antimatter.

[Schmidty]

you opened this can of worms, I have every right to my opinion on how people play the game.

I opened a can of worms by calling you on your constant insulting of my intelligence (while I ignored it)? It seems to me you were shoving the can in my face for over a week, and it looked like people were with me, even if they might not have agreed with my move. You have been bitter and rude. It's par for the course for you. I had a spat on FOFC in a long time, but it's no surprise that it was you that brought it about.

[Abe Sargent]

#151 Abe voted Dubb and broke the four way tie
#154 Jag voted Martin D and broke the three way tie with him, Lathum and Barkeep
#158 Martin unvoted Lathum and voted Dubb.

At this point the vote is 4-3 Dubb/Martin

Then in #162 Abe unvoted Dubb and voted Schmidty. This happened after Lathum had been dropped from the main discussion and only had one vote.

Then in #165 Abe unvoted Schmidty and voted Dubb again since Schmidty checked in.

After that candidates were pretty clearly established, so it's hard to read much into any votes at that point.

I think a wolf would want to establish and early vote on Dubb especially with Lathum potentially on the block and his vote already on Martin.

Because of this, my suspicion list is primarly BK, Autumn, Abe and Jag. BK and Autumn for their early voted on Dubb and Abe and Jag for establishing Martin and Dubb as the candidates instead of Lathum.

That seems fair. I can;t argue that.

[Lathum]

I opened a can of worms by calling you on your constant insulting of my intelligence .

If the shoe fits.

[Abe Sargent]

dola- I guess you have a right to be annoyed, you actually contributed something for the first time is 4 years and I should have been proud of you for making that breakthrough.

Well done.

Wow, this is WAY over the line Lathum.

[Chief Rum]

Wow, this is WAY over the line Lathum.

He doesn't stop. I wish BK were here. Lathum deserves a boxing. Schmidty probably a slap on the wrist, too, but it's obvious Schmidty is reacting, while Lathum is flat being a dick.

[Lathum]

You know what? I've been silent about this so far, asshole. But I'm sick and tired of your whiny ass bitching. You sound like a fucking broken record, and it's getting old. You want to get on my ass, fine. But to keep insulting me is beyond rude. Shut the fuck up already.

I did what I did because of the posts that Tyrith made within the hour or so before the lynch (and his prior ones), and the fact that he was OBVIOUSLY pushing me in a certain direction. I made a call, and I wouldn't regret it even if I had gotten it wrong. If you don't like it, shove it up your ass.

I disagree with you a lot, but I've always liked you too. But at this point, I'm tired of your act. You are an asshole.

Wow, this is WAY over the line Lathum.

and Schmidtys first post isn't?

[Abe Sargent]

My two cents, Lathum was obviously attacking Schmidity in a backhanded sort of way, Schmidity called him on it, but used language a bit over the top, and then Lathum exploded. Schmididididity aI agree with your sentiment, but I think you escalated too son. Lathum, i think you went to bad places. Everybody cool down and take a breather.

[nfg22]

apart from the bitch fight...i just caught up...ill be in with thoughts soon.

[Schmidty]

dola- then went on to tell me to get a life, etc...

did you think I would react favorably? And in a few hours or a day you will apologize for blowing up, make some lame Schmidty excuse and apologize like every other time you have blown up because you are a spineless little bitch.

You just continue to prove how big of an ass you are.

Why should I apologize? You have been the one being insulting the entire time. I finally got sick of it.

Yes, I do hate conflict. And I do hate having people as my enemies. If that makes me "spineless", so be it. I get mad (not as much now as the past), but then I realize how silly it is in the long run. However, you have mad it clear, that you have not nothing but contempt for me. That's fine, but I'm not taking it up the ass anymore.

[Chief Rum]

and Schmidtys first post isn't?

Schmidty's right, though. You have been dropping crap on that move now for more than a week. Time to let it go, you know?

[Lathum]

He doesn't stop. I wish BK were here. Lathum deserves a boxing. Schmidty probably a slap on the wrist, too, but it's obvious Schmidty is reacting, while Lathum is flat being a dick.

are you fucking kidding me?

He attacks me, calls me an asshole, tells me I have no life, calls me a whiny bitch and I am the one being a dick and he is the one reacting? And all after I said the thread jack was over?

gimme a break.

[Abe Sargent]

I think it's best if everyone myself included just sets this aside for now.

Schmidity, lathum was obviously attacking yoyur play, no queitson, but you got take a breather, take a break. You can rise to the bait.


Lathum, you are dead, and you are dropping bombs all over. Please leave the thread for now.


Everybody else, I contributed, I regret it, I think we all need to back off and cool down.

[Chief Rum]

are you fucking kidding me?

He attacks me, calls me an asshole, tells me I have no life, calls me a whiny bitch and I am the one being a dick and he is the one reacting? And all after I said the thread jack was over?

gimme a break.

You can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, bub. You deserved everything you got.

[Chief Rum]

I think it's best if everyone myself included just sets this aside for now.

Schmidity, lathum was obviously attacking yoyur play, no queitson, but you got take a breather, take a break. You can rise to the bait.


Lathum, you are dead, and you are dropping bombs all over. Please leave the thread for now.


Everybody else, I contributed, I regret it, I think we all need to back off and cool down.

Fair enough by me.

[Lathum]

You just continue to prove how big of an ass you are.

Why should I apologize? You have been the one being insulting the entire time. I finally got sick of it.

Yes, I do hate conflict. And I do hate having people as my enemies. If that makes me "spineless", so be it. I get mad (not as much now as the past), but then I realize how silly it is in the long run. However, you have mad it clear, that you have not nothing but contempt for me. That's fine, but I'm not taking it up the ass anymore.

Jesus Christ dude, I even reached out to you and told you most of my comments about last game were for game purposes. I have no contempt for you and never had. You were the one who escalated this, not me.

Schmidty's right, though. You have been dropping crap on that move now for more than a week. Time to let it go, you know?

I did let it go. The fact a similar move was made brought it back up.

[Danny]

Can you guys take this to PM if it is going to continue? Let's not poo poo all over Jackal's game.

[Lathum]

You can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, bub. You deserved everything you got.

that laughable.

Your defending Schmidty while telling me I can't take the heat?

I can take heat, but people shouldn't turn into little bitches or defend little bitches when they get it back.

[Abe Sargent]

Lathum please leave The Jackal's game, this is not about Labyrinth II anymore. I know you are pissed that you got killed out of the blue, but you need to take a break and stop posting this stuff in The Jackal's game thread

[Schmidty]

Here - Yes, I am sorry for my initial swearing and such. I shouldn't have done that, and I regret it. In fact, I should have just been the better man, and ignored his jabs. I would even apologize for the anger, but I refuse to do so to a person that calls me spineless.

With that, I will stop this, and let the game go on.

[nfg22]

Anyone else notice that the roles say "2-3 telepaths" Im nto saying it means we have a wolf false claiming but it could.

Also, Im not ready to put martin in the CoT because I dont like killing one to scan another, but Lathum was bad. Then again, the real Nostradamus could come out and kill another bad guy, so I think Martin is about 90 percent clear.

[Abe Sargent]

Thanks for the calm down Schmidty

[nfg22]

By the way sorry for the wrong vote...I knew the rules...I just wasnt thinking..

[Danny]

So there are 16 roles listed (with 3 telepaths), the others will be added tonight.

Here NFG, also while I don't like referring to PM's, it also said in my PM that there were three of us.

[nfg22]

Here NFG, also while I don't like referring to PM's, it also said in my PM that there were three of us.

Thanks...I wasnt even thinking that there was a fake wolf...I just like to look at all possibilities..

[Lathum]

I already apologized to Jackal via AIM but I won't apologize for responding when someone attacks me.

Schmidty could have easily PM'd me, so don't put this on me. Schmidty knew I would respond and in a bad way.

He acted like a child, so in turn I responded like a child.

This will be my last post in this game, and probably in the werewolf forum.

[Chief Rum]

Anyone else notice that the roles say "2-3 telepaths" Im nto saying it means we have a wolf false claiming but it could.

Also, Im not ready to put martin in the CoT because I dont like killing one to scan another, but Lathum was bad. Then again, the real Nostradamus could come out and kill another bad guy, so I think Martin is about 90 percent clear.

How dare you! Talking about the game. :D

FTR, I hear ya on Martin, but I think he gets a pass for now. We have enough candidates, IMO, to give him a little space for now. We can come back to him later if need be.

[nfg22]

How dare you! Talking about the game. :D

FTR, I hear ya on Martin, but I think he gets a pass for now. We have enough candidates, IMO, to give him a little space for now. We can come back to him later if need be.

For sure...Im all out of suspicions at this point

[Chief Rum]

For sure...Im all out of suspicions at this point

Yeah, I would say "suspicions" is very light in supply at the moment. We're just not far enough into the game for that. But we do have an unusual number of guys who are fairly proven to be villagers at this point, and that alone helps us pick from the dwindling pool.

[Abe Sargent]

OK, Im out for tonight. I'm a bit wearied of this evening's drama. See all of you beautiful people in the morning!!

[The Jackal]

:popcorn:

[Barkeep49]

Also to note MartinD casted the second vote on Lathum and Lathum voted for MartinD helping him to be a candidate. I think it is unlikely MartinD puts that vote on Lathum as a wolf and vice verse, so while he is not cleared, we can probably look elsewhere for now.

Before my internet went down I considered voting Lathum because of his initial comment stating it was strange people checked in as vanilla villagers. Its something I didn't notice at all. BK agreed with lathum here which I also found odd as I still hadn't noticed this. BK might be someone worth checking out.

And by the end of the day I was singing a very different tune.

[Barkeep49]

I'm closing the thread for until morning when I wake up. I apologize to Jackal for the impact that has on his game. But tonight is a problem. Further action might be in the works.

~Barkeep49, YFWWM

[The Jackal]

Continue to send in any leftover movements or actions for the noon deadline, hopefully the situation will be resolved before then.

[Barkeep49]

Jackal has informed me if you are someone (like CR sometimes is) who can't vote later in the day he will accept votes via PM. If you're someone who will be around please wait.

~BK, YFWWM

[Passacaglia]

Looks like we're back up.

[Danny]

And by the end of the day I was singing a very different tune.

I'll check up on this. And while you were on my list, there is someone else I am likely to vote for today. I will wait until after the night time to go there though.

[DaddyTorgo]

I think we look towards Barkeep today as was noted earlier by someone (frankly I don't want to read back through all the blowing up and lose respect for people so i'm not going to just to see who it was) based on his reaction to the "vanilla villager" stuff.

so we have the 3 telepaths (danny, hoops, myself), ntn, and dubb all cleared at this point? That's 5. That's pretty damn good.

Nice to get rid of the ancient of earth - when reading the rules that was the one i was most concerned with. frustrating for the ancients though - but that's the nature of being a wolf. sometimes you can do nothing to arouse suspiscion and just get whacked out of the blue. sucks, but it's the way things go sometimes.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh you were singing a different tone BK? ohhh okay

*rescinds a bit of my "look at barkeep" declaration

[Danny]

dubb 8 (BK 102, Autumn 141, Martin 158, Abe 165, Pass 167, ntn 185, lerriuqs 190, hoops 198)
Martin 7 (nfg 135, Lathum 144, JAG 154, Chief Rum 178, Tyrith 184, RendeR 191, Schmidty 207)
BK 2 (dubb 103, Thomkal 146)

Not Voted - DT, Danny
*********************************************
Vote count as of post #150

Lathum 2 (ntn 99, Martin 127)
dubb 2 (BK 102, Autumn 141)
Martin 2 (nfg 135, Lathum 144)
BK 2 (dubb 103, Thomkal 146)
ntn 1 (Tyrith 92)
***********************************************
#151 Abe voted Dubb and broke the four way tie
#154 Jag voted Martin D and broke the three way tie with him, Lathum and Barkeep
#158 Martin unvoted Lathum and voted Dubb.

At this point the vote is 4-3 Dubb/Martin

Then in #162 Abe unvoted Dubb and voted Schmidty. This happened after Lathum had been dropped from the main discussion and only had one vote.

Then in #165 Abe unvoted Schmidty and voted Dubb again since Schmidty checked in.

After that candidates were pretty clearly established, so it's hard to read much into any votes at that point.

I think a wolf would want to establish and early vote on Dubb especially with Lathum potentially on the block and his vote already on Martin.

Because of this, my suspicion list is primarly BK, Autumn, Abe and Jag. BK and Autumn for their early voted on Dubb and Abe and Jag for establishing Martin and Dubb as the candidates instead of Lathum.
I'm interested in seeing who broke this tie and established Dubb and Martin as the two candidates.
***************************************************
I. Lathum - blown up by the inferno device night 1 - Ancient of Earth
II. dubb93 - lynched day 1 - Phoenix
III. RendeR
IV. ntndeacon - Inferno Hunter
V. Autumn
VI. Abe Sargent
VII. Schmidty
VIII. JAG
IX. hoopsguy - Telepath
X. lerriuqs
XI. Danny - Telepath
XII. Barkeep49
XIII. Chief Rum
XIV. Tyrith
XV. MartinD
XVI. Thomkal
XVII. Passacaglia
XVIII. DaddyTorgo - Telepath
XIX. nfg22

Just posting it on the new page, like DT, don't really want to revisit page 6

[Barkeep49]

oh you were singing a different tone BK? ohhh okay

*rescinds a bit of my "look at barkeep" declaration
Sarcastic or sincere? If sarcastic, I would point out my stating of Martin as Nostradamus around 9:50 last night.

[Barkeep49]

The game thread is indeed back open as has been noticed.

The moral of last night's story is that if you have a problem with someone it is not to go on in a game thread. What happened last night shouldn't go on anywhere. In a situation like that there are no winners, just losers of varying degrees.

The closeness of players is what makes this a great place to play WW. Of course that means that there are people who are going to get on each others nerves (and I don't exempt myself from that). We should be all mature enough around here to know of proper ways of dealing with that aggravation and if you are having a problem dealing with it, come to me.

~Barkeep49, YFWWM

[Barkeep49]

Sarcastic or sincere? If sarcastic, I would point out my stating of Martin as Nostradamus around 9:50 last night.
I had missed post 342 when I posted this.

[Autumn]

This was fantastic, nice job ntn. It's going to take a while to wrap my head around what we can get out of this.

[JAG]

First off, just a great result from last night. Is this some kind of record with 4-5 almost 100% cleared villagers coming into day 2?

In retrospect, my vote looks really bad. Just to expand on what I said when I voted for Martin, when BarKeep asked MartinD why Lathum and nfg spoke up to say Lathum was a pretty easy target, it seemed to me like Lathum was getting set up. Bad call on my part. The timing makes it look worse, but I mainly wanted to make sure I would get a vote in at all as I had to pick up my daughter and met with a contractor after bringing her home.

Other thoughts, judging from his comments, it does seem logical that Martin is Nostradamus, which means we would get an extra scan. My question is, would it make sense for him to reveal if one of the people under suspicion is on his list as well (maybe not until closer to lynch deadline)? I don't know that it would be a good idea to say everyone he has, but at least this way if we take out a villager we can get a scan out of it. Considering we already have a significant trust list, there's got to be good odds of finding a wolf with a scan or at the least we add to the list.

[Thomkal]

So there are 16 roles listed (with 3 telepaths), the others will be added tonight.

Quoting this for the benefit of Nfg, who earlier was wondering if there were 2 or 3 telepaths.

[ntndeacon]

if it hadn't worked my vote today would have been squarely on Martin.

[Thomkal]

Great job there Ntn with the inferno device. I'm not sure if it was a wise decision or not when we didn't know Lathum's role, but it was now or never and he had voted for you plus brought up being suspicious of "vanilla villagers" when we all knew there were none. Could see that as a wolf fishing for day 1 targets. So can't really blame you either even if it had gone bad for us commoners.

[Danny]

Quoting this for the benefit of Nfg, who earlier was wondering if there were 2 or 3 telepaths.

And I like I said beyond that, it was actually in the PM as well that there are three of us.

[Autumn]

if it hadn't worked my vote today would have been squarely on Martin.

Can you explain this? I'm not following you.

[ntndeacon]

Can you explain this? I'm not following you.

I should have just waited on that. there are a couple of things that were said that led me to question Lathum. I got lucky that the inferno device was there, and that we lynched where the original inferno device was. Beyond this I can't say more yet.

[Autumn]

I have a couple thoughts on votes today but I will wait until after the night deadline to see what that tells us. (which is at noon EST, right?)

[DaddyTorgo]

Sarcastic or sincere? If sarcastic, I would point out my stating of Martin as Nostradamus around 9:50 last night.

sincere

[Autumn]

Also I find it amusingly ironic that two of our telepaths were the ones not to vote yesterday.

[DaddyTorgo]

haha - i already explained my lack of vote. got caught up talking to my best friend who i hadn't talked to in like...over a month.

probably only like the 3rd or 4th time i've ever missed a vote

[Danny]

Also I find it amusingly ironic that two of our telepaths were the ones not to vote yesterday.

It was Hoops' fault. We both communicated our wished telepathically, but he did not put down the votes for us.

Though it was funny and if it had been different where the two of us weren't essentially cleared, I am sure there would be heat on us for that. In my defense though, I wanted to be here :)

[Autumn]

Yes, for sure. I can't think of a way that you guys could be telepaths and bad, and no one's counter revealed, so you're good. But in a tight race like that, with two vocal players not voting, I would have been suspect.

I know you guys can't necessarily talk with each other, but it's just amusing that it was you two.

[The Jackal]

I have a couple thoughts on votes today but I will wait until after the night deadline to see what that tells us. (which is at noon EST, right?)

Yessir.

[Autumn]

I know I'm on someone's suspect list there for my early vote on Dubb. I'll go ahead and give my explanation, which is just the same as when I voted. I think it was 2-2-1-1 or something when I voted and I wanted to make sure there were more than two candidates, but not 5 or 6, so I followed on someone with one vote already. That's the best i can say. I think Martin was the other 1 vote fellow but I didn't want to follow on that vote since we weren't sure if it was legal yet or not.

[Abe Sargent]

I voted for dubb because I didn;t want to introduce more candidates at that point, and I didn;t wnat to waste my vote. hoops and BK and Lathum are players who always get Day One suspicion, so I wanted to stay clear of that, so I chose between dubb and Martin.

In retrospect, I think that was a good move. Ohters pointed out how they thought Martin was Nostradamus and dubb was the phoenix, so we got someone in the COT, and then the inferno device moved, and ntndeacon blew up a wolf and rr as the hunter.

The result? We massively increased our COT and killed a wolf, none of which would have happened with a MartinD lynch. Now, I didn't know that at the time, of course, but in retrospect, that appears to be pretty solid stuff.

We are in one of the strongest positions I can ever recall this early in the game, so we can sit back, relax, analyze, and figure things out from here.

[The Jackal]

I believe I'm missing movements from three people. I'll send PMs and if this is incorrect, please re-send. I would request for the future that all movements be standalone PMs - either a response to mine or an obviously named PM. Everyone has done a good job with that so far, just want to keep it as easy as possible and try not to lose people's moves.

[Passacaglia]

I voted for dubb because I didn;t want to introduce more candidates at that point, and I didn;t wnat to waste my vote. hoops and BK and Lathum are players who always get Day One suspicion, so I wanted to stay clear of that, so I chose between dubb and Martin.

In retrospect, I think that was a good move. Ohters pointed out how they thought Martin was Nostradamus and dubb was the phoenix, so we got someone in the COT, and then the inferno device moved, and ntndeacon blew up a wolf and rr as the hunter.

The result? We massively increased our COT and killed a wolf, none of which would have happened with a MartinD lynch. Now, I didn't know that at the time, of course, but in retrospect, that appears to be pretty solid stuff.

We are in one of the strongest positions I can ever recall this early in the game, so we can sit back, relax, analyze, and figure things out from here.

Can you explain the part in bold?

[Passacaglia]

Oh, I see. rr is role reveal. Anyway, do we care to speculate on ntn's win conditions, since he is neutral?

[Danny]

role reveal as the inferno hunter is what he meant, he was using l33t speak.

[Danny]

Oh, I see. rr is role reveal. Anyway, do we care to speculate on ntn's win conditions, since he is neutral?

He probably won by destroying the inferno device, he probably just needs to survive now.

[Autumn]

He probably won by destroying the inferno device, he probably just needs to survive now.

I would agree with that. I could also imagine him siding with your side, since I believe the wolves had some power over the device, right? So they seem antagonistic to him.

[Passacaglia]

I would agree with that. I could also imagine him siding with your side, since I believe the wolves had some power over the device, right? So they seem antagonistic to him.

With who's side?

[Danny]

I would agree with that. I could also imagine him siding with your side, since I believe the wolves had some power over the device, right? So they seem antagonistic to him.

Interesting slip here

[Danny]

Autumn was the person I was likely to vote for today anyway and with that, it will be unlikely I go elsewhere unless there is a good explanation.

[Autumn]

Just a typo guys. our side. Feel free to blow it out of proportion.

[Schmidty]

Checking in before work.

I'm not sure yet if I'm still allowed in the game, but I hope so. Anyway, I'll be back around 6 p.m. EST. Also, I hate to bring it up, but I'd really like to apologize to everyone about last night.

[Danny]

Feel free to blow it out of proportion.

Already on it :)

[Autumn]

Already on it :)

Thanks, I'd hate for us not to have something minor and inconsequential for us to waste our energy on today ;-)

[Danny]

Thanks, I'd hate for us not to have something minor and inconsequential for us to waste our energy on today ;-)

To be fair, without that, you were one of the four players on my list of where to look. Out of that list of four, I had you and JAG at the top based on perceiving BK and Abe a little differently

[Autumn]

Sure, I understand. Early is all by guts and I brought that attention on myself with the slip. Not much I can say.

[Passacaglia]

Day 1 recap:


Lathum votes ntn (90) -- he is often quiet -- ntn 1
Tyrith votes ntn (92) -- Default D1 vote -- ntn 2
ntn votes Lathum (99) -- ntn is not an ancient -- ntn 2, lathum 1
BK votes dubb (102) -- ntn and dubb with PassPoints, but ntn has votes already -- ntn 2, dubb 1, lathum 1
dubb votes BK (103) -- retaliation -- ntn 2, bk 1, dubb 1, lathum 1
MartinD votes Lathum (127) -- no point in adding another candidate -- lathum 2, ntn 2, bk 1, dubb 1
nfg votes MartinD (135) -- looking at people who jumped on Lathum -- lathum 2, ntn 2, bk 1, dubb 1, MartinD 1
Autumn votes dubb (141) -- nothing to go on, consolidating to a three-way race -- dubb 2, lathum 2, ntn 2, bk 1, MartinD 1
Lathum unvotes ntn, votes MartinD (144) -- does not like Martin's vote -- dubb 2, lathum 2, martinD 2, bk 1, ntn 1
Thomkal votes Bk (146) -- wants a 4-way tie -- bk 2, dubb 2, lathum 2, martinD 2, ntn 1
Abe votes dubb (151) -- wants to choose one of the 4, Lathum and BK always get D1 votes, went with 1st name on list of two left -- dubb 3, bk 2, lathum 2, martinD 2, ntn 1
JAG votes MartinD (154) -- does not like Martin's statement about not wanting to vote for the two that voted each other, since Lathum and ntn had done that also -- dubb 3, MartinD 3, bk 2, lathum 2, ntn 1
Martin unvotes Lathum, votes dubb (158) -- self-defense (but says he has good reason for voting Lathum) -- dubb 4, martinD 3, bk 2, lathum 1, ntn 1
Abe unvotes dubb, votes Schmidty (162) -- thought Schmidty had not checked in -- dubb 3, martind 3, bk 2, lathum 1, ntn 1, schmidty 1
Abe unvotes Schmidty, votes dubb (165) -- realized Schmidty had checked in -- dubb 4, martind 3, bk 2, lathum 1, ntn 1
Pass votes dubb (167) -- did not like hoops's defense of dubb -- dubb 5, martind 3, bk 2, lathum 1, ntn 1, schmidty 1
Schmidty votes and unvotes Abe -- upset that Abe thought he had not checked in
Chief Rum votes Martind (178) -- i think he was trying to say he wanted to avoid a runaway -- dubb 5, martind 4, bk 2, lathum 1, ntn 1
ntn unvotes lathum, votes martind (183) -- does not like martind's answers -- dubb 5, martind 5, bk 2, ntn 1
Tyrith unvotes ntn, votes martind (184) -- votes for one with actual suspicion -- martind 6, dubb 5, bk 2
ntn unvotes martind, votes dubb (185) -- realized martind had not voted right after him? -- dubb 6, martind 5, bk 2
lerriuqs votes dubb (190) -- let's see where this goes -- dubb 7, martind 5, bk 2
render votes martin (191) -- wants to keep it close -- dubb 7, martin 6, bk 2
hoops votes dubb (192) -- dubb is marginally more likely to be a wolf -- dubb 8, martin 6, bk 2
Schmidty votes Martin (207) -- keeping it close -- dubb 8, martin 7, bk 2

[Passacaglia]

He probably won by destroying the inferno device, he probably just needs to survive now.

So if that's the case, shouldn't we kill him?

[Autumn]

Well, what I could do to defend myself is send you some of my typing. I do transcription for a living and if you saw what my raw typing looked like you'd be amazed there weren't a lot more typos in my posts.

[Autumn]

So if that's the case, shouldn't we kill him?

Well that's a pretty low reward play. There's no chance it gives us a wolf, it gives us no voting record and best case scenario it doesn't help our win conditions, worst case scenario it hurts our win conditoins.

[Danny]

So if that's the case, shouldn't we kill him?

Why? Him winning has no negative effect on us potentially winning. I guess the only possibility would be him reaching the center, but that's a concern for later. We need to find and kill the wolves.

[Passacaglia]

Why? Him winning has no negative effect on us potentially winning. I guess the only possibility would be him reaching the center, but that's a concern for later. We need to find and kill the wolves.

I can see this -- I guess it depends on whether or not his win conditions are such that if he meets them, that means we can't win. I'd definitely like to hear more from him, at least.

[Passacaglia]

Well, what I could do to defend myself is send you some of my typing. I do transcription for a living and if you saw what my raw typing looked like you'd be amazed there weren't a lot more typos in my posts.

So you're saying it's just a typo, not a mixed-up thought? I ask because the Y and O keys are not close to each other.

[Autumn]

So you're saying it's just a typo, not a mixed-up thought? I ask because the Y and O keys are not close to each other.

Yes, it's a typo.

[Danny]

I can see this -- I guess it depends on whether or not his win conditions are such that if he meets them, that means we can't win. I'd definitely like to hear more from him, at least.

His role description doesn't sound like his winning would be in opposition to us, unlike the minotaur and possibly even Loki. Though with this fine start if I were Loki, I would hedge toward joining the village.

[The Jackal]

Beginning processing movements.

[Danny]

I better not be dead again

[Autumn]

I would think they'd leave the telepaths alone at this point and try to find a juicier role.

[Autumn]

I was hoping to see the results before I run out, but I'm going to have to go now. I'll be back in a bit.

[The Jackal]

In an orgy of beautiful, dancing flames, dubb is reborn.

[DaddyTorgo]

there's your results. dubb had an orgy!

[Danny]

No movement PM yet, I am getting nervous

[The Jackal]

No movement PM yet, I am getting nervous

There's 10 left, feeling lucky? ;)

[Danny]

There's 10 left, feeling lucky? ;)

At this point I know I'll either not be getting one because I am dead or I'll be the last one to get one :)

[Danny]

A ha! I got my pm!

[The Jackal]

All moves are out.

[The Jackal]

The Jester surveys the results, tapping his foot impatiently.

You're all still alive? And someone came back to life! Fancy that..

[MartinD]

I suspect that it's probably a good idea to confirm what appears to be common knowledge at this point - I am Nostradamus, and Lathum was one of the names on my list. (Why Lathum? I thought that there was a pretty good chance that the wolves would go after him early if he was a villager.)

With the scan that I got from Lathum's death (thanks ntn :) ), I found out that lerriuqs looks like one of the good guys.

[Danny]

Wow, so assuming this is all on the up and up, we have the following

I. Lathum - blown up by the inferno device night 1 - Ancient of Earth
II. dubb93 - Phoenix
III. RendeR
IV. ntndeacon - Inferno Hunter
V. Autumn
VI. Abe Sargent
VII. Schmidty
VIII. JAG
IX. hoopsguy - Telepath
X. lerriuqs - Scanned by Nostradaumus
XI. Danny - Telepath
XII. Barkeep49
XIII. Chief Rum
XIV. Tyrith
XV. MartinD - Nostradaumus
XVI. Thomkal
XVII. Passacaglia
XVIII. DaddyTorgo - Telepath
XIX. nfg22

[Danny]

Wow, so assuming this is all on the up and up, we have the following

I. Lathum - blown up by the inferno device night 1 - Ancient of Earth
II. dubb93 - Phoenix
III. RendeR
IV. ntndeacon - Inferno Hunter
V. Autumn
VI. Abe Sargent
VII. Schmidty
VIII. JAG
IX. hoopsguy - Telepath
X. lerriuqs - Scanned by Nostradaumus
XI. Danny - Telepath
XII. Barkeep49
XIII. Chief Rum
XIV. Tyrith
XV. MartinD - Nostradaumus
XVI. Thomkal
XVII. Passacaglia
XVIII. DaddyTorgo - Telepath
XIX. nfg22

[hoopsguy]

So, I figured I would share some map info with you guys with the idea that there are probably more good guys than bad guys out there at this point.

From my starting point I went straight twice. The first time I went straight I was told that it was a little warmer. I suspected, incorrectly, that the inferno device may have been transferred to me. Nope, not the case. On my second move straight I have now found myself trapped in a cone of flames.

This does not seem to match up with the abilities associated with the Ancient of Fire, so I assume that it is a Labyrinth-specific option that I've triggered.

I'll post in here as I learn more, but my initial impression is that this is not a really great turn of events for me. So exercise caution if you see some language describing temperature changes in your new location. Also, if one of the other telepaths is close let me know and I'll try to backtrack towards you rather than you coming to find me.

[MartinD]

The Jester surveys the results, tapping his foot impatiently.

You're all still alive? And someone came back to life! Fancy that..


Two possibilities come to mind - the wolves hit the minotaur (who can't get night-killed), or the paladin got a block...

[Danny]

Vote Autumn

My vote will either be on Autumn or Jag today baring any unforeseen events. Autumn's possible slip up and his less than normal activity is the primary reason he is the choice over Jag at this point

[Danny]

Two possibilities come to mind - the wolves hit the minotaur (who can't get night-killed), or the paladin got a block...


Or they weren't in the same location as any players.

[Danny]

Based on how the game is going, if I were the seer or FBI agent and I find a wolf, I would reveal right away. It would clear you and net us a second wolf.

[ntndeacon]

ok my idea was wrong. I thought you were Mentok, Martin, and got horribly lucky in your first scan. I don't mind saying that now. isure as heck wasn't gonna say it while Ithought that. Glad we cleared someone else out of it.

[Autumn]

Or they weren't in the same location as any players.

Yes, I don't know how big this labyrinth is but it seems that's a strong possibility, making it hard to know when we got a block.

[Autumn]

Vote Autumn

My vote will either be on Autumn or Jag today baring any unforeseen events. Autumn's possible slip up and his less than normal activity is the primary reason he is the choice over Jag at this point

I think if you'd look at my other games you'd find that I'm normally fairly quiet first day, and get mouthy later on. I hate day one, having nothing to go on, and I know whoever talks the most gets targeted so I usually try to keep it fairly quiet until I see something.

[The Jackal]

Just an FYI - the wolves don't have to be in the same room as a player to kill them.

[MartinD]

Or they weren't in the same location as any players.

Thank you - missed that part of the rules.


Probably worth giving a bit of info on my movements up to this point:

My initial move forward put me into a room where I could go left/right/backwards.

I moved left, and found Autumn in the room I entered - options (from my perspective) were ahead, right or backwards. I chose to go right.

[Danny]

So MartinD, you were in the room with Autumn heading into today's night kill?

[Autumn]

Keep in mind that I believe the Minotaur and Loki will scan as "good" to Nostradamus, no?

I would be fine with a strategy of voting for someone else on Martin's list. It seems the biggest bang for our buck.

[Danny]

Just an FYI - the wolves don't have to be in the same room as a player to kill them.

Oh, was it like that last game?

[Danny]

Ok, so it a wolf in the same area and not in the same room. Still knowing Autumn was in the same area for sure as MartinD means if he was a wolf a kill could have been made. I think it's possible there was a BG block as I would have to think other players were in the same area and at least one wolf was able to make a kill.

[The Jackal]

Oh, was it like that last game?

Yes, it works exactly the same as it did last game.

[dubb93]

there's your results. dubb had an orgy!

F'N A. I see my death set forth a series of interesting events atleast.

[Danny]

Keep in mind that I believe the Minotaur and Loki will scan as "good" to Nostradamus, no?

I would be fine with a strategy of voting for someone else on Martin's list. It seems the biggest bang for our buck.

I'm not worried about the minotaur as he can't be lynched. Loki at this point would be foolish to join the wolves team as things have gone the villagers way big time so far.

[Autumn]

Sure, just to keep in mind that they're among the "cleared."

Ah, I had interpreted "area" as "room". Good to know.

[Barkeep49]

Way big? We're just in Day 2 here. We've been lucky so far but this is hardly unstoppable momentum.

[dubb93]

Vote Pass

I have a strong feeling that what he was doing on the last page was being done with devious goals in mind. His series of posts pinged me as beyond odd reading them. He also has a very poor vote(timing and everything) in for me yesterday.

[Autumn]

Can anyone else confirm people that they've run across? I can confirm Martin's story, as far as us being in the same room. I'm not sure ther'es a downside to revealing this.

Is there anything the wolves can do other than a night kill? I know the Ice guy can freeze, but it sounds like he can do that while someone else is killing.

[Autumn]

Vote Pass

I have a strong feeling that what he was doing on the last page was being done with devious goals in mind. His series of posts pinged me as beyond odd reading them. He also has a very poor vote(timing and everything) in for me yesterday.

I also didn't like his vote yesterday, which if my notes are right came with no explanation at all.

[Danny]

Sure, just to keep in mind that they're among the "cleared."

Ah, I had interpreted "area" as "room". Good to know.

Which is fine for the time being. Frankly, at this point it will be tough for us not win the game except by having the wolves hit the center first. All of our uncleared villagers have roles, so worse comes to worse they can reveal. I personally advocate for early reveals on villagers who will definitely be up for a lynch.

[Danny]

Way big? We're just in Day 2 here. We've been lucky so far but this is hardly unstoppable momentum.

Actually I believe it is baring the exception I just posted. All of our uncleared villagers are able to reveal if necessary. I see very little chance we lose this game by regular werewolf mechanics. Losing by way of labyrinth is a possibility of course.

[Autumn]

Which is fine for the time being. Frankly, at this point it will be tough for us not win the game except by having the wolves hit the center first. All of our uncleared villagers have roles, so worse comes to worse they can reveal. I personally advocate for early reveals on villagers who will definitely be up for a lynch.

I don't think we should underestimate the extra powers the ancients have, though, or what Loki might be able to do.

You might have a good idea there though, we've got a big enough COT that with some reveals we could have the wolves cornered.

[Thomkal]

man we are off to a great start against the wolves, hope we can keep it up. I have encountered nothing in my movements so far-that's right no people or other encounters.

I plan on voting for someone who voted for Dubb yesterday. I'm sure the wolves split their votes given that both candidates are now revealed as good guys, but especially given the praise over dubb's skills in this game (well-earned), I'm sure some took a shot at trying to get him out of the game.

[Autumn]

Anyone else think voting off Martin's list is the best way to go? I think it makes great sense early.

[hoopsguy]

The flow of the voting yesterday felt to me like what I would expect with two villagers going head-to-head. Going from memory, there were only a cuople of people around in the final ten minutes when I cast my vote (was 7-6 at that time, I think).

[Danny]

Anyone else think voting off Martin's list is the best way to go? I think it makes great sense early.

Unless a kill on Martin was blocked last night and the wolves now know they can kill him if they want tomorrow. I think Martin was a strong choice for a potential kill last night.

[RendeR]

THe Paladin did not protect Martin last night.

He saved my ass. I was attacked by the Ancient of Ice.

I had terrible dreams of snow and frozen regions and death and I awoke to see a shield protecting me.

[Autumn]

Ah, if we lynch he'll get a night time scan, and not be able to complete it if killed. True. I don't see much downside though and the chance of reward is still there if the wolves don't do that, can't do that or get blocked somehow.

[Autumn]

THe Paladin did not protect Martin last night.

He saved my ass. I was attacked by the Ancient of Ice.

I had terrible dreams of snow and frozen regions and death and I awoke to see a shield protecting me.

This is very nice to hear, presuming we don't get a counter reveal.

But so there still should have been a night kill, no?

[Danny]

Nice, so again assuming this turns out to be on the up and up we have another cleared player.

[Danny]

This is very nice to hear, presuming we don't get a counter reveal.

But so there still should have been a night kill, no?

The night kill was the attempt on Render, ancient of ice is one of the wolves.

[Danny]

I would advise the bodyguard reveal if Render's story is not true.

[RendeR]

This is very nice to hear, presuming we don't get a counter reveal.

But so there still should have been a night kill, no?



No the paladin blocked a night kill attempt on me, I am not the Paladin.

[Autumn]

When did Lathum get blown? During the night cycle?

Is it possible he was set up to do a night kill and they couldn't because he died? I assume there would have been time to switch their orders.

[Autumn]

The night kill was the attempt on Render, ancient of ice is one of the wolves.

right but the ice ancient has a special attack to freeze someone htat is not a night kill as I understand it.

[Autumn]

No the paladin blocked a night kill attempt on me, I am not the Paladin.

I realize that, I'm saying a counter reveal in the sense that someone says your story is bogus (i.e. the paladin says he did not protect you).

[RendeR]

right but the ice ancient has a special attack to freeze someone htat is not a night kill as I understand it.


Yes, but I don't see how the Paladin could defend against the freeze attack. I'm assuming he can only block kill attempts.

[Danny]

That puts a damper on things potentially. If it was a freeze that doesn't necessarily clear Render. A kill attempt would.

[Danny]

Paladin - Each night may place a protective shield on any player, preventing them from being night killed. May not protect the same player twice in a row.

Does not say he can protect a freeze attack.

[Autumn]

Ancient of Ice - Can freeze a player for an entire day or night phase, forbidding them from committing actions or posting during the selected phase. This can only be used once every two days, and if used, the frozen ancient cannot commit a kill that night.

This is what I mean. This is an additional power the Ancient can use when not busy making a night kill. So, it's unclear wehther the attack on Render was just a night kill with colorful language, or one of these. I'm not sure what the point of freezing Render would have been unless the ancient of fire had scanned him during the day and found something juicy, so I'm leaning toward night kill.

[Autumn]

That does seem pretty clear, Danny, I agree.

[Autumn]

If that's on the up and up we're rolling with some pretty good luck. It also makes the vote-with-Martin plan seem better.

[DaddyTorgo]

i was all set to jump on render, but i think what autumn says makes sense and i lean towards it being colorful language and an attempted kill - we already saw jackal using colorful language elsewhere (which btw i am in favor of), so i think we assume renderis at least somewhat cleared (sure he could be loki or could he even be the minotaur - or if he was would that mean he'd attack the BG? i forget the specifics on that bit of the rules) although not completely cleared.

bodyguard should continue to stay hidden unless they end up on the block.

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry - what's buying martin all this trust? i must have missed something from yesterday afternoon

[Autumn]

That he has claimed to be Nostradamus and nobody has countered him.

[RendeR]

Why were you going to jump on me DT? I'm curious as to what you were thinking made me suspicious?

[DaddyTorgo]

aaah - i missed his claim to be nostradamus.

i was thinking of jumping you render because of the way you described the attack and it sounded like the ice ancient was trying to freeze you and the paladin wouldn't have been able to block it. not sure why you'd make that play as a wolf, but it led me strongly to consider you until i thought about it for a minute and realized that it was likely just flavorful writing by jackal on a kill attempt.

[nfg22]

A couple questions for you all....

Does the Loki neccesarily able to know how to become good or bad. It looks as the language says he just makes choices that will push him either way. Granted these choices may seem obvious but maybe not. So we cant assume Loki will be able to choose.

Also, is there a way RendeR is bad, and found out he had the BG guard him and then claimed to be attacked just so he could be cleared? At this point I dont want a false villager in the CoT because we are doing so good but then again I think his story is reliable. So if someone could answer whether he could have found out if he wasnt attacked.

[nfg22]

Other than that I still have few suspicions and I dont know who to vote for...the whole Autumn mistype is not very indicative to me. I dont see the argument for Jag unless someone can explain it to me.

[hoopsguy]

NFG, that would largely depend on how the moderator does his writeups. The bodyguard role is fundamentally the same in most WW games (guard someone, potentially stop attacks) but the implementation can be very different from game to game.

In many games the target has no idea he was guarded. In most games (lately, at least) the bodyguard is not able to identify the attacker.

[nfg22]

NFG, that would largely depend on how the moderator does his writeups. The bodyguard role is fundamentally the same in most WW games (guard someone, potentially stop attacks) but the implementation can be very different from game to game.

In many games the target has no idea he was guarded. In most games (lately, at least) the bodyguard is not able to identify the attacker.

Ok...not saying im suspicious of RendeR, but it is possible he got guarded but is still bad and was sent a message saying he was guarded and now thrusts himself into the CoT?

[nfg22]

I guess if tommorow the person guarded says they didnt get a message then we can put him in the CoT. In either case im not voting for him, I dont think he is a wolf.

[Danny]

Other than that I still have few suspicions and I dont know who to vote for...the whole Autumn mistype is not very indicative to me. I dont see the argument for Jag unless someone can explain it to me.

The argument is making a key vote which helped to reduce the chance of Lathum being lynched. Abe is in this boat as well. Autumn and Barkeep both put down early votes on Dubb which helped to establish him as a candidate. It seems likely that one of the wolves would do that with Dubb the way Lathum did with MartinD.

[Autumn]

I don't mind remaining somewhat skeptical of Render's claim if only because it seems improbably lucky for the BG to have protected Render of all people, and for Render of all people to have been attacked the same night.

[Danny]

I don't mind remaining somewhat skeptical of Render's claim if only because it seems improbably lucky for the BG to have protected Render of all people, and for Render of all people to have been attacked the same night.

I'm not adding Render to the trust list until we have more info, but I also wouldn't be voting for him until we have more info either. In general I'd say it's likely he is telling the truth though pending a BG disputing this.

[RendeR]

I don't mind remaining somewhat skeptical of Render's claim if only because it seems improbably lucky for the BG to have protected Render of all people, and for Render of all people to have been attacked the same night.


I can understand this train of thought, I just chalk it up to my performance in the last game making me an early NK target =)

[Autumn]

I can agree that looking at the votes Abe and JAG would be good targets, both effectively pushed Lathum down out of the voting. It's not much to go on but it's something.

I would be glad for Martin to reveal one person on his list and I would gladly vote for whoever that was (well, obviously someone who's not semi-cleared.). If the BG really did protect Render last night we could get an extra scan here.

[Passacaglia]

Vote Pass

I have a strong feeling that what he was doing on the last page was being done with devious goals in mind. His series of posts pinged me as beyond odd reading them. He also has a very poor vote(timing and everything) in for me yesterday.

What was I doing last page? I see myself giving a recap of votes, suggesting killing ntn, and asking Autumn about his typo. Which thing(s) were you referring to? I don't see how my vote was any poorer than anyone else's (including yours) assuming that we were villager-villager.

[Passacaglia]

I also didn't like his vote yesterday, which if my notes are right came with no explanation at all.

I explained why I was suspicious of dubb when I made the vote -- because of hoops defending him in a similar way I remember him defending a fellow wolf once way back when I was a new player. I didn't explain at the time that I thought Martin was Nostradamus, but I did believe it then.

[Passacaglia]

man we are off to a great start against the wolves, hope we can keep it up. I have encountered nothing in my movements so far-that's right no people or other encounters.

I plan on voting for someone who voted for Dubb yesterday. I'm sure the wolves split their votes given that both candidates are now revealed as good guys, but especially given the praise over dubb's skills in this game (well-earned), I'm sure some took a shot at trying to get him out of the game.

I have also not run into anyone. I did locate a trap, but I'm not sure how to tell anyone where it was.

[Abe Sargent]

Thanks, I'd hate for us not to have something minor and inconsequential for us to waste our energy on today ;-)

Heh.

[Autumn]

I explained why I was suspicious of dubb when I made the vote -- because of hoops defending him in a similar way I remember him defending a fellow wolf once way back when I was a new player. I didn't explain at the time that I thought Martin was Nostradamus, but I did believe it then.

Ah you did that in a post after your vote. I see that now, but either missed it then or didn't go back in my notes and correct it.

[hoopsguy]

I explained why I was suspicious of dubb when I made the vote -- because of hoops defending him in a similar way I remember him defending a fellow wolf once way back when I was a new player. I didn't explain at the time that I thought Martin was Nostradamus, but I did believe it then.

That post raised an eyebrow from me, even before learning that Dubb was the Phoenix. I had already claimed Telepath in the thread, which is a known good role. So you would have to be concerned that I would be fake revealing on the first day (second page of the thread?) and then covering for Dubb? It seemed borderline ridiculous to me, not so much in a "Pass is a wolf" type of way, but in a "dude, take off the tin foil hat" sort of way.

[Thomkal]

It looks like four people who voted for Dubb yesterday are not at least semi-cleared at this point is that correct?

Martin-claims to be Nostradamus.
Ntn-claims to be Inferno Hunter.
Lerriuqs-claimed to be good by Martin with a Nostradamus scan
Hoops-claims to be Telepath.

Leaving Autumn, Barkeep, Pass, and Abe as unknowns who voted for Dubb. I'd like to hear more from each of you why I and the rest of us shouldn't be voting for you tonight.

[Abe Sargent]

The Jester surveys the results, tapping his foot impatiently.

You're all still alive? And someone came back to life! Fancy that..


Huh. No one died?

[Abe Sargent]

So, I figured I would share some map info with you guys with the idea that there are probably more good guys than bad guys out there at this point.

From my starting point I went straight twice. The first time I went straight I was told that it was a little warmer. I suspected, incorrectly, that the inferno device may have been transferred to me. Nope, not the case. On my second move straight I have now found myself trapped in a cone of flames.

This does not seem to match up with the abilities associated with the Ancient of Fire, so I assume that it is a Labyrinth-specific option that I've triggered.

I'll post in here as I learn more, but my initial impression is that this is not a really great turn of events for me. So exercise caution if you see some language describing temperature changes in your new location. Also, if one of the other telepaths is close let me know and I'll try to backtrack towards you rather than you coming to find me.


Damn, I just got language like that in my lastest move. Thanks!

[hoopsguy]

Leaving Autumn, Barkeep, Pass, and Abe as unknowns who voted for Dubb. I'd like to hear more from each of you why I and the rest of us shouldn't be voting for you tonight.

That is probably my list of candidates as well.

[Abe Sargent]

Based on how the game is going, if I were the seer or FBI agent and I find a wolf, I would reveal right away. It would clear you and net us a second wolf.

What about if they found Loki or perhaps the Minotaur? Would ypou want them to reveal then?

[Passacaglia]

That post raised an eyebrow from me, even before learning that Dubb was the Phoenix. I had already claimed Telepath in the thread, which is a known good role. So you would have to be concerned that I would be fake revealing on the first day (second page of the thread?) and then covering for Dubb? It seemed borderline ridiculous to me, not so much in a "Pass is a wolf" type of way, but in a "dude, take off the tin foil hat" sort of way.

Yeah -- I had some egg on my face when I realized that you were a cleared good the next day. Of course, someone could have mentioned it to me! I still would have kept my vote on dubb because I thought Martin was Nostradamus, though.

[Autumn]

It looks like four people who voted for Dubb yesterday are not at least semi-cleared at this point is that correct?

Martin-claims to be Nostradamus.
Ntn-claims to be Inferno Hunter.
Lerriuqs-claimed to be good by Martin with a Nostradamus scan
Hoops-claims to be Telepath.

Leaving Autumn, Barkeep, Pass, and Abe as unknowns who voted for Dubb. I'd like to hear more from each of you why I and the rest of us shouldn't be voting for you tonight.

I've already defended my vote. But I want to point out that by your list here Martin is semi-cleared, which means everyone voting for Martin was probably also voting for a villager. I'm not sure that this is the best technique to find a wolf then.

Votes that moved us away from Lathum make some sense to me. But I think we're not going to get much out of a primarily villager/villager run off.

[Abe Sargent]

THe Paladin did not protect Martin last night.

He saved my ass. I was attacked by the Ancient of Ice.

I had terrible dreams of snow and frozen regions and death and I awoke to see a shield protecting me.

Whoah!

[Abe Sargent]

Wolves must be PISSED!!! :)

[Abe Sargent]

When did Lathum get blown? During the night cycle?

Is it possible he was set up to do a night kill and they couldn't because he died? I assume there would have been time to switch their orders.

He was teh Ancient of Earth and RendeR said he was attacked by the one of Ice

[Autumn]

I love it when people read back through pages of posts and respond as they go ;-)

[Abe Sargent]

I can understand this train of thought, I just chalk it up to my performance in the last game making me an early NK target =)

Or maybe you were the only person in teh area ;)

[MartinD]

I'm seeing several posts from Autumn asking for me to reveal someone from my list - while I can see that there is some benefit (in that I would get another scan), I'm fairly sure that there's some downside risk as well. In particular, I could see a situation where I effectively decide who we're lynching by stating that a certain player is on my list, followed by a one-sided, pile-on vote - means that there's a pretty good chance that we lose out on getting some useful vote history from today's lynch vote.

There's also the possibility that the wolves may hand me a free scan if they were to night-kill someone on my list - don't think that they would make that move if that information was out in the open.

I don't have enough information to be comfortable with what may come down to declaring a death sentence on a completely innocent player, just to get one more scan (that I may not be able to use if I end up as the wolves' target on Night 2).

This is not saying that I won't make my list public - just that I would like to see a balanced argument, taking into account both the good and bad sides of the deal, before I start naming names.

[Passacaglia]

I've already defended my vote. But I want to point out that by your list here Martin is semi-cleared, which means everyone voting for Martin was probably also voting for a villager. I'm not sure that this is the best technique to find a wolf then.

Votes that moved us away from Lathum make some sense to me. But I think we're not going to get much out of a primarily villager/villager run off.

Highly agree with this. I think the votes to look for are the ones that tried to make this a villager-villager race -- so probably the ones that helped make Lathum less of a factor in the votes early on.

[Abe Sargent]

Highly agree with this. I think the votes to look for are the ones that tried to make this a villager-villager race -- so probably the ones that helped make Lathum less of a factor in the votes early on.



Someone people have been breathing down you, why do you think that is?

[Autumn]

There's also the possibility that the wolves may hand me a free scan if they were to night-kill someone on my list - don't think that they would make that move if that information was out in the open.

This is why I would suggest only revealing one name, to maximize the chance for an additional nightkill on the list and another scan.

But you're right that it might create a pile-on, which isn't useful. Though given that nobody else has really jumped on my idea, maybe it won't.

I can understand you not wanting to decide the lynch, and possibly messing up voting history. Two candidates from your list would give us a race at least, but I'm not sure if that's the best route.

After the last game I'm a bit wary of getting too cute and missing out on a voting history, so I don't know. I at least am likely to follow your vote because I think an extra scan would be very powerful with 3 wolves in 9 folks.

[Passacaglia]

Someone people have been breathing down you, why do you think that is?

They're all stupid? :)

[Passacaglia]

This is why I would suggest only revealing one name, to maximize the chance for an additional nightkill on the list and another scan.

But you're right that it might create a pile-on, which isn't useful. Though given that nobody else has really jumped on my idea, maybe it won't.

I can understand you not wanting to decide the lynch, and possibly messing up voting history. Two candidates from your list would give us a race at least, but I'm not sure if that's the best route.

After the last game I'm a bit wary of getting too cute and missing out on a voting history, so I don't know. I at least am likely to follow your vote because I think an extra scan would be very powerful with 3 wolves in 9 folks.

One name seems like a bad idea -- two or three seems like a good way to make it an interesting race and not a pile-on.

[hoopsguy]

For Autumn + Pass, who are suggesting that Thomkal's "Dubb voters" list is not a good place to look.

Would there be any reason for all of the wolves to bypass one of the two villagers in a villager/villager runoff? Traditional wolf thinking (or at least how I think as a wolf) is to avoid clumping together on a candidate and to avoid sticking out with your vote, when possible. The later suggests voting for people who have votes.

So it would seem to make sense that the majority of the remaining wolves would have scattered across the two leading candidates. It just so happens that we have four semi-cleared folks among the 8 on Dubb, leaving four non-cleared. If the non-cleared list is shorter on MartinD then I would certainly consider that list for today's vote.

[Passacaglia]

Someone people have been breathing down you, why do you think that is?

But seriously, my worry about hoops probably led to a lot of it. Other than that, I'm not sure what else.

[Passacaglia]

For Autumn + Pass, who are suggesting that Thomkal's "Dubb voters" list is not a good place to look.

Would there be any reason for all of the wolves to bypass one of the two villagers in a villager/villager runoff? Traditional wolf thinking (or at least how I think as a wolf) is to avoid clumping together on a candidate and to avoid sticking out with your vote, when possible. The later suggests voting for people who have votes.

So it would seem to make sense that the majority of the remaining wolves would have scattered across the two leading candidates. It just so happens that we have four semi-cleared folks among the 8 on Dubb, leaving four non-cleared. If the non-cleared list is shorter on MartinD then I would certainly consider that list for today's vote.

I can understand that logic. I'll also help things out in this respect by revealing as the Minotaur. RAWR! Oh, wait, what noise do minotaurs make?

[Barkeep49]

Sweet. Now that we know the Minotaur I can say that I've transformed from Jekyll into Hyde.

[hoopsguy]

This has been one interesting game in terms of the role reveals already out there on Day 2.

[Autumn]

For Autumn + Pass, who are suggesting that Thomkal's "Dubb voters" list is not a good place to look.

Would there be any reason for all of the wolves to bypass one of the two villagers in a villager/villager runoff? Traditional wolf thinking (or at least how I think as a wolf) is to avoid clumping together on a candidate and to avoid sticking out with your vote, when possible. The later suggests voting for people who have votes.

So it would seem to make sense that the majority of the remaining wolves would have scattered across the two leading candidates. It just so happens that we have four semi-cleared folks among the 8 on Dubb, leaving four non-cleared. If the non-cleared list is shorter on MartinD then I would certainly consider that list for today's vote.

Well, we got burned with this kind of analysis a few games back, was it Office Space? when we had an all villager lynch and wolves with non-wolf like voting records.

I agree it seems likely there's one wolf on Dubb at least, but I wouldn't guarantee it. I was simply pointing out that I wouldn't suggest focusing too hard on one side when there's just as likely wolves on the other side.

The fact that it's gotten wide excitement from all parts makes me wonder if in fact there isn't a wolf there and so therefore the wolves are lending their enthusiasm to the idea.

Given all that I agree that, knowing I"m good, seems like a 1/3 chance is good there. I would probably vote for Abe out of those three given his role in pushing Lathum out of the limelight.

[Autumn]

Wow.

[Autumn]

Why would the minotaur reveal? His goal is to eliminate all of us, no?

[Autumn]

I'm willing to role reveal as well if we want to do a mass reveal, but I'm not sure if it's the wise thing. Thoughts?

[Passacaglia]

Why would the minotaur reveal? His goal is to eliminate all of us, no?

It is. However, if villagers die off, the wolves win before I can. If wolves die off, I still win by making sure no villagers reach the center. So I am on Team Villager here.

[Autumn]

Since everyone else is reeling in shock, let me think outloud. If all hte good/neutral guys reveal, we basically run the risk of losing our seer and bodyguard right off. Which won't mean much since we'll already know who the wolves are. We can pick them off and not need our roled players. Hmm.

[Thomkal]

I've already defended my vote. But I want to point out that by your list here Martin is semi-cleared, which means everyone voting for Martin was probably also voting for a villager. I'm not sure that this is the best technique to find a wolf then.

Votes that moved us away from Lathum make some sense to me. But I think we're not going to get much out of a primarily villager/villager run off.

I definitely agree we should be watching the Lathum switches too. But more than one person was singing dubb's praises as a player before he got lynched, and I have to think that given the opportunity the wolves would try to take him out over Martin (no offense intended Martin). We shouldn't just ignore the votes from uncleared people on Martin either (or myself on Barkeep and any other unattached votes to Martin/Dubb). I just think we are more likely to find a wolf (or wolves) amongst the uncleared dubb voters right now.