Werewolf XCVII - Labyrinth II (GAME OVER - COMMONERS WIN!)

[Danny]

Barkeep is the man! :)

[DaddyTorgo]

aaah okay danny - honestly i'd forgotten that there were 4 wolves listed. i just remembered fire/ice/earth

[MartinD]

Ah well, it was always likely that I'd have an early death in this one, with the way that things worked out - can't complain, though, as I think that I contributed a bit to the village's current strong position.

Still a long way to go, though, guys - keep it going! :)

[Danny]

I'm guessing the last wolf is Abe. I think I know what Render and CR are which would make Abe the only possibility left.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep is the man! :)

?

[Danny]

I'd rather not give out specific details so as to not help Pass, but we ran into each other today in the labyrinth and he helped me with something.

[Passacaglia]

I'd rather not give out specific details so as to not help Pass, but we ran into each other today in the labyrinth and he helped me with something.

how did i get involved

[DaddyTorgo]

aaah i get it

[Passacaglia]

You guys just have your wank over PM and I'll do my thing, mmkay?

[Danny]

You guys are sick!

[Passacaglia]

Oh wait, you guys can't PM until you meet each other, can you?

[DaddyTorgo]

right

[nfg22]

Well with JAG figured out, this thread gets boring...zzzz

[Passacaglia]

Well can we at least talk about who we trust for nfg or Tyrith? This place is snoozers. I'm still not sure myself, but am up for hearing some thoughts on it.

[nfg22]

Well I think im clear. soooo that lead to tyrinth right? Case closed. Everyone else agree with that reasoning?

[nfg22]

jokes aside....really I am a villager now. When the scan comes up, ill clear. Then we can focus on lynching and getting to center.

[Passacaglia]

jokes aside....really I am a villager now. When the scan comes up, ill clear. Then we can focus on lynching and getting to center.

Wait, you're a villager now, and not Loki?

[nfg22]

Well Im loki....but chose villager.

[Passacaglia]

Well Im loki....but chose villager.

So can you talk about how the choices came to you? We've heard a little bit from Tyrith about it, but not much from you.

[nfg22]

Well it wasnt a series of choices. I walked around like normal. Then yesterday Jackal asked me what I wanted to be. I should note I found an object on the ground but I dont want to reveal it. I dont think that had anything to do with my journey to villager tho.

[nfg22]

I should elaborate...Jester asked me if I wanted to be Villager or wolf...and I just chose...He did not say" what do you want to be."

[Danny]

Loki - The Norse god of mischief returns. This role does not start the game aligned with either side - they will have multiple choices during the game that will guide their allegiance.

Tyrith's story sounds much more in line with the description here as opposed to a one time choice like nfg is claiming.

[Danny]

So wolves are Jag, nfg and Abe it looks like.

[nfg22]

Why are you so quick to jump on me? Also that is what it says but my story stands and is true.

[Passacaglia]

So wolves are Jag, nfg and Abe it looks like.

Abe?

[DaddyTorgo]

jokes aside....really I am a villager now. When the scan comes up, ill clear. Then we can focus on lynching and getting to center.

this post reads to me like a wolf who got sloppy with their reveal and forgot that they were supposed to be loki FWIW nfg.

Now maybe you are actually Loki and not a wolf, and if that's the case, just take this as...constructive criticism, or an example of where you were maybe playing too fast-and-loose with your posts instead of being more buttoned-up.

But in a situation where it's 50/50 and one of you is a wolf faking a reveal you've got to be very deliberate and careful with what you say. You also have to really...disassociate yourself from the game. Because in that type of situation there's a significant chance people could make the wrong choice, and you shouldn't take that personally or anything.

Shit, if given the option i'm pretty sure that we'd elect to lynch both of you at the same time and take the 1-for-1 trade.

[DaddyTorgo]

as much as we love the real-loki and value his addition to our team, i'm sure he'd agree.

[nfg22]

this post reads to me like a wolf who got sloppy with their reveal and forgot that they were supposed to be loki FWIW nfg.

Now maybe you are actually Loki and not a wolf, and if that's the case, just take this as...constructive criticism, or an example of where you were maybe playing too fast-and-loose with your posts instead of being more buttoned-up.

But in a situation where it's 50/50 and one of you is a wolf faking a reveal you've got to be very deliberate and careful with what you say. You also have to really...disassociate yourself from the game. Because in that type of situation there's a significant chance people could make the wrong choice, and you shouldn't take that personally or anything.

Shit, if given the option i'm pretty sure that we'd elect to lynch both of you at the same time and take the 1-for-1 trade.


Well i just play how I am...im a villager and you can say what you want about me. How did I get sloppy? I said i was a villager now. I have not messed up my reveal I have been consistent.

[nfg22]

Well im out till after deadline. You guys have a good day...Dont listen to the haters

[Passacaglia]

Hey, I just looked over the rules and I see no mention of a cunning. So can we assume CR is definitely good, or do we need to watch out for the cunning still? I guess I'm trying to get this all straight in my head -- if CR's not the BG, and RendeR's not the BG, doesn't that mean Abe is? Something isn't right with those three, I think.

[DaddyTorgo]

i don't think we need to try to puzzle that out pass - at least us villagers don't.

i'm sure if the bodyguard ends up on the block he'll let us know. otherwise i don't think we want to go making it any easier.

[DaddyTorgo]

why would we assume CR is definately good?

[ntndeacon]

Vote Jag for obvious reasons

[Passacaglia]

at least us villagers don't.


How rude!

Anyway, I guess we'll be up for some more fake reveals in the future, then. That should be fun, at least.

[Passacaglia]

why would we assume CR is definately good?

Thomkal scanned him last night -- that's why I was asking about the cunning. Otherwise, we don't have a reveal from him.

[ntndeacon]

why would we assume CR is definately good?

because no ancient had a masquerading power?

[Thomkal]

Hey, I just looked over the rules and I see no mention of a cunning. So can we assume CR is definitely good, or do we need to watch out for the cunning still? I guess I'm trying to get this all straight in my head -- if CR's not the BG, and RendeR's not the BG, doesn't that mean Abe is? Something isn't right with those three, I think.

I was worried about that myself Pass, but I'm assuming there's no cunning. Jackal listed one as brutal, so not sure why he wouldn't list one as cunning as well if there was one. So I'm confident as one can be in a WW game that Chief is good and that I know his role.

[Thomkal]

ah yes before I forget.

vote JAG

Can brutals only kill people voting for them? I forget. Rules for this one make it seem like he can kill anybody.

[Passacaglia]

I was worried about that myself Pass, but I'm assuming there's no cunning. Jackal listed one as brutal, so not sure why he wouldn't list one as cunning as well if there was one. So I'm confident as one can be in a WW game that Chief is good and that I know his role.

I guess that's what I'm thinking for now. I guess I'm just thinking that if we go through all of Abe, nfg, RendeR, and Tyrith, that's where I'd be looking next.

[Passacaglia]

ah yes before I forget.

vote JAG

Can brutals only kill people voting for them? I forget. Rules for this one make it seem like he can kill anybody.

Usually they can kill anybody.

[DaddyTorgo]

Thomkal scanned him last night -- that's why I was asking about the cunning. Otherwise, we don't have a reveal from him.

lol oh right. i must have skimmed over that as i was eating my lunch. duhh

[DaddyTorgo]

i think we need a new chart

[Passacaglia]

Plus, their kill usually can't be blocked by the BG, which does not bode well for you.

[Passacaglia]

Hmm...


UNVOTE TYRITH
VOTE NFG22


I know DT is going to hate this, but maybe we should look here instead to possibly buy the seer another scan.

[DaddyTorgo]

we go:
1. NFG
2. Tyrith
3. Abe
4. Render

And I think we got this thing done.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola - my list is of course after we kill JAG today

[DaddyTorgo]

Pass - in no way does voting for NFG over JAG buy the seer another day. It's down to a bg/wolves chessmatch as far as protecting the seer - which wolf we kill (or which suspected wolf in NFG's case) has no effect on that.

[Thomkal]

I find it interesting that right after I posted last night my initial choices I was considering for my seer view Tyrith posted with the reveal that he was Loki. I'm not sure how to read that-that he was worried I'd scan him and find a wolf or really is Loki and on the side of the village and wanted me to view another and find a wolf.

[Passacaglia]

Pass - in no way does voting for NFG over JAG buy the seer another day. It's down to a bg/wolves chessmatch as far as protecting the seer - which wolf we kill (or which suspected wolf in NFG's case) has no effect on that.

I think generally the brutal wolf's kill can't be BG-blocked.

[Passacaglia]

we go:
1. NFG
2. Tyrith
3. Abe
4. Render

And I think we got this thing done.

I'm assuming you mean we kill Tyrith only if nfg is good?

[Thomkal]

i think we need a new chart

I'm working on it. :)

[Passacaglia]

I think generally the brutal wolf's kill can't be BG-blocked.

By that I mean, it's down to the bg/wolves chessmatch only if we don't kill the brutal -- if we kill the brutal, the seer is just dead no matter what.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm - Mr. 'Caglia raises an interesting point there. Although there is no guarentee it would buy us another day - Thomkal could still get eaten at night. But it's something to consider.

And yes, we kill Tyrith only if NFG is good of course. Just like we kill RendeR only if Abe is good.

[Thomkal]

By that I mean, it's down to the bg/wolves chessmatch only if we don't kill the brutal -- if we kill the brutal, the seer is just dead no matter what.

:cry:

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah I got what you meant Pass - must say I hadn't considered that. Either way I think we're...2-3 days tops away from ending this thing.

[Thomkal]

So here's where we stand with reveals and role claims:

I. Lathum - blown up by the inferno device night 1 - Ancient of Earth
II. dubb93 - lynched day 1/returned day 2 - Phoenix
III. RendeR-claimed to be protected by the Paladin
IV. ntndeacon-claimed to be Inferno Hunter
V. Autumn-lynched day 2-Nightcrawler
VII. Schmidty-revealed as the Mongol Warrior/removed from the game
VIII. JAG-claiming to be Nightcrawler-is now a known wolf
IX. hoopsguy-claims to be a Telepath
X. lerriuqs-viewed as good from a scan from Martin-has claimed Theseus II (maybe)
XI. Danny-claims to be a telepath
XII. Barkeep49-claims to be Dr. Jekyll/Mr Hyde
XV. MartinD-killed by the wolves-Nostradamus-views as good by Thomkal
XVI. Thomkal-claims to be Mentok, the Mind Taker-the seer
XVII. Passacaglia-claims to be the Minotaur
XVIII. DaddyTorgo-claims to be a Telepath

Unknown Roles:

III. RendeR-claimed to be protected by the Paladin
VI. Abe Sargent
X. lerriuqs-viewed as good from a scan from Martin-claims to be Theseus II (maybe)
XIII. Chief Rum-viewed as good by Thomkal
XIV. Tyrith-claims to be Loki
XIX. nfg22-claims to be Loki

[Thomkal]

Reading through my chart here, I want to throw something out there-I'm assuming JAG is a wolf thanks to his face off with Autumn, but we should keep in mind is the possibility that he is really is Loki or another role that might have had contact with the wolves and cooked this plan up. I find it unlikely that this is the case, but we should consider it just in case.

[Thomkal]

Hey JAG, speak up-who are you really? :)

[dubb93]

Vote Jag

[DaddyTorgo]

but if JAG was loki then we'd have 3 people claiming to be loki.

and if loki is helping the wolves we want him out of our hair anyways

[hoopsguy]

If someone wanted to counter the Theseus claim they could have done so by now or at least voted on him to rebut his claim. I'm guessing that he is who he says he is.

Ditto the Dr. Jekyl claim from BK.

FBI guy and Paladin are the unclaimed roles.

JAG is one of Wind, Fire, Ice - we'll find out soon enough.

So basically it is
1. JAG
2. Tyrith/NFG
3. Abe/Render

#3 - means that the bad guys attacked themselves on either N1 or N2. Which one makes more sense to you? By the N1 phase we already had a strong start on the COT, but it was blown wide open by N2.

I think that our bad guys are going to be JAG, NFG, and Abe. I'll try to firm up my guesses on these with some thread review, but I'm not all that inclined to post the results of that research since it might help the bad guys narrow down the last remaining roles if they are not super-obvious.

[DaddyTorgo]

I wouldn't worry about it Hoops. I think we have it well enough in hand that posting that is just going to give the bad guys narrow down the last roles.

I'd expect they have their "kill list" pretty well planned out at this point anyways though. And they are somewhat constrained in going after the unknowns because that lowers the pool of potential people whom they could be. Like is it really worth taking out the Paladin if you expose another wolf by virtue of that? I'd have to assume that the smart play for them is trying to get rid of the seer and then eating through the CoT and just hoping they don't run into the BG.

[DaddyTorgo]

"just going to HELP the" not "give the"

[Passacaglia]

I think that our bad guys are going to be JAG, NFG, and Abe. I'll try to firm up my guesses on these with some thread review, but I'm not all that inclined to post the results of that research since it might help the bad guys narrow down the last remaining roles if they are not super-obvious.

On the other hand, by not posting anything until later, don't you run the risk of getting killed before we get to vote on those guys?

[hoopsguy]

I hardly think that I'm a high profile target here.

FBI agent is pretty obvious.

Paladin - if I'm a betting man then I'm guessing that RendeR stayed home with his guard on N1 because he knows he is good ... that seems to be the way many people play the BG role. It definitely seems more likely than Abe ending up guarding RendeR the ancient.

Loki role - worry for tomorrow, but if we are able to leave that as our last wolf we are in pretty good shape.

[Danny]

I pinned the same three as Hoops did and probably for much the same reasons which I am also keeping quiet for now. I'm debating if it might be best just to get it out there though.

[DaddyTorgo]

is there any possible way that path could be a wolf? do the wolves say that minotaur eats wolf? otherwise maybe he's a wolf claiming to be the minotaur and one of the others who we think is a wolf is actually the minotaur and that's how they hope to draw this out?

obviously if the rules don't allow this i'm just insane, but the paranoia wheels in my head were just spinning overtime for a minute so i thought i'd throw that out there

[DaddyTorgo]

errr i said path and i meant pass. silly me

[Danny]

I hardly think that I'm a high profile target here.

FBI agent is pretty obvious.

Paladin - if I'm a betting man then I'm guessing that RendeR stayed home with his guard on N1 because he knows he is good ... that seems to be the way many people play the BG role. It definitely seems more likely than Abe ending up guarding RendeR the ancient.

Loki role - worry for tomorrow, but if we are able to leave that as our last wolf we are in pretty good shape.

And there it is, this is exactly what I see as well. Render is the BG, there was no reason for someone else as the BG to protect Render night 1. And there has been no dispute/confirmation from anyone else as the BG which would have caught a wolf or cleared two people.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay wow - plenty of typos in my first line

is there any possibility that PASS could be a wolf? Do the RULES say that minotaur eats wolf?

[Danny]

is there any possible way that path could be a wolf? do the wolves say that minotaur eats wolf? otherwise maybe he's a wolf claiming to be the minotaur and one of the others who we think is a wolf is actually the minotaur and that's how they hope to draw this out?

obviously if the rules don't allow this i'm just insane, but the paranoia wheels in my head were just spinning overtime for a minute so i thought i'd throw that out there

I'd say somewhat possible, but we would know that soon enough and honestly, after we kill off the wolves we should just lynch Pass everyday (who can't be killed) so as to not lose a villager who is trying to get to the middle.

[Danny]

When I say possible, the only way is if the real minotaur was someone like Abe who simply wanted to not help the village. But again, not likely.

[hoopsguy]

Danny, if we think that JAG = brutal and we are sure enough about our logic then we could go another direction. But we would be giving up a sure thing for a target I consider a smidge less certain.

I think this game is going to stretch into early next week without a whole heck of a lot of drama unless something hinky happens with the map.

D3 (today) - kill 2nd wolf
D4 (Friday) - kill 3rd wolf
D5 (Monday) - I'm guessing we get wolf #4 here but maybe it goes to
D6 (Tuesday) - game over by this point at latest

If we are playing a 9x9 grid, with two moves per day, and no direct path to middle, then I wonder if there is even enough time for someone to get to the center while eluding the Minotaur?

[Danny]

And as to the cunning discussion, there is no cunning wolf. This is not a game of hidden mechanics and it is not listed in the roles. I also happen to know that Jackal hates cunning wolves.

[DaddyTorgo]

that was just my "pie in the sky" paranoid moment for this game is all. i doubt it frankly.

[Passacaglia]

okay wow - plenty of typos in my first line

is there any possibility that PASS could be a wolf? Do the RULES say that minotaur eats wolf?

No. Yes.

[Passacaglia]

If we are playing a 9x9 grid, with two moves per day, and no direct path to middle, then I wonder if there is even enough time for someone to get to the center while eluding the Minotaur?

Do you mean an 18x18 grid? 9x9 seems pretty small.

[Danny]

I'm alright with changing up the lynch order. We have Jag as a for sure wolf, but I think our logic will end up correct. I am ok with a NFG lynch because I would want to lynch Loki right after the wolves were found anyway just to be safe.

[Thomkal]

And there it is, this is exactly what I see as well. Render is the BG, there was no reason for someone else as the BG to protect Render night 1. And there has been no dispute/confirmation from anyone else as the BG which would have caught a wolf or cleared two people.

I agree Danny, I thought it odd the wolves would go after Render, and wondered if he was just protecting himself. I think if someone else was the Paladin they would have come out by now despite their role. I mean it gives us another wolf if Render is not the Paladin-one that we can vote for now instead of the suspected brutal JAG.

[hoopsguy]

Do you mean an 18x18 grid? 9x9 seems pretty small.

How big was Abe's grid in Dungeon? I didn't play that one so I'm bad with the details on it.

Although I haven't had anyone in my space yet it certainly seems that people are encountering one another. I don't think that would be happening in an 18x18 grid with any kind of frequency.

[Passacaglia]

How big was Abe's grid in Dungeon? I didn't play that one so I'm bad with the details on it.

Although I haven't had anyone in my space yet it certainly seems that people are encountering one another. I don't think that would be happening in an 18x18 grid with any kind of frequency.

I'm not sure if he ever gave out the map. But a 9x9 grid means that if you're at an edge (not a corner), you'd be at the center in 4 moves, with maybe an extra move or two for some turns. That's 3 days, and is crazy. 18x18 does seem too big, but I just thought that's what you meant instead of 9x9 (that you were thinking of 9 as the distance from center to edge, not from edge to edge).

[hoopsguy]

I think it would be pretty bad luck for Render to not be the Paladin and not have been picked up on a 50% scan.

We'll either have a 100% scan or a 50% scan (or both) tomorrow to add onto what we already know. With that in mind, we really should have this one nailed down very quickly.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not sure if he ever gave out the map. But a 9x9 grid means that if you're at an edge (not a corner), you'd be at the center in 4 moves, with maybe an extra move or two for some turns. That's 3 days, and is crazy. 18x18 does seem too big, but I just thought that's what you meant instead of 9x9 (that you were thinking of 9 as the distance from center to edge, not from edge to edge).

Well, I'm guessing that there are no direct paths, that traps slow people up, and that backtracking would need to take place. I'm inclined to think that we are looking at no bigger than 12x12 but I guess that remains one of the few mysteries at this point.

[Abe Sargent]

How big was Abe's grid in Dungeon? I didn't play that one so I'm bad with the details on it.

Although I haven't had anyone in my space yet it certainly seems that people are encountering one another. I don't think that would be happening in an 18x18 grid with any kind of frequency.

Mine was 13x13

My ride arrives in a couple o fminutes and I'll be out for a long time.

[RendeR]

Hoops and Danny are absolutely correct.

I am the Paladin, I protected myself night 1 because I really didn't see anyone else as sure enough of a thing to protect them instead of me. I was attacked by the Ancient of Ice and my shield protected me.

I protected someone else last night and there was no attempt on that person. (not going to say who right now)

Good puzzling guys.

Our wolves seem pretty 0bvious at this point, we might as well get all the roles out and just shitcan the wolves over the next 3 days and end this thing.

[RendeR]

Vote JAG

[Thomkal]

hey Paladin!

Okay Chief Rum I think its okay to claim your role now. :) As in its the last one left anyway.

[Thomkal]

okay then does this mean we should go for Abe tonight instead of JAG to try to avoid the brutal wolf? Do we feel that confident in everyone's roles now?

[hoopsguy]

UNVOTE JAG
VOTE ABE

I'm willing to give this a go.

[Danny]

Me too

Unvote Jag
Vote Abe

[Passacaglia]

Same here.


UNVOTE NFG22
VOTE ABE SARGENT

[Danny]

chief should vote for nfg and then attempt to scan him and then assuming we don't hit the brutal hopefully one of CR/Thomkal gets a scan and then we know for sure who to hit out of nfg/tyrith.

[Tyrith]

Makes sense to me.

UNVOTE NFG
VOTE ABE

[RendeR]

Why not

UNVOTE JAG

VOTE ABE

[The Jackal]

JAG 7 (nfg 662, BK 679, DT 704, Abe 722, ntn 783, Thomkal 788, dubb 809)
Abe 5 (hoops 839, Danny 840, Pass 841, Tyrith 843, RendeR 844)

[Tyrith]

Missing CR and JAG, looks like?

[The Jackal]

And lerriuqs.

[Tyrith]

Ah, good ol' backwards squirrel.

[Tyrith]

Gone till after lynch, most likely.

[Danny]

I'm out until after lynch, hopefully some more switches to Abe, but don't let this be a tie.

[Chief Rum]

hey Paladin!

Okay Chief Rum I think its okay to claim your role now. :) As in its the last one left anyway.

Heh...

Yeah, as surmised, as I am the FBI agent. I scan for roles, which in this game, pretty much tells you allegiance, too.

I forget if it's showing in the rules, so I'll just state here, I have a 50% of guessing the role of a player if I vote for him that day, but only 25% if I don't.

On N1, I voted for and scanned MartinD and confirmed what we already know, that he was Nostradamus.

Last night (N2), I voted for (in a fairly obvious vote, IMO) and scanned Render, but my scan failed, so I don't have any info on him. Everyone's read of his role prior to his reveal meshes with mine.

The great news here is that this is sorta like having two seers, so the wolves won't know who to go for.

Incidentally, I do kinda think we should consider it likely JAG is the brutal, and maybe go after one of the other options (to get another seer scan out of either Thomkal or me, whoever survives). I like nfg as a lynch target personally, although I'll tell you now, my vote won't be on whoever gets lynched.

[Chief Rum]

VOTE NFG

I am rooting for some more JAG switches to Abe. I really think it's likely JAG is the brutal, and he will take Thomkal with him. And then I will be a goner tonight (unless we're lucky and Render didn't protect me last night).

[The Jackal]

JAG 7 (nfg 662, BK 679, DT 704, Abe 722, ntn 783, Thomkal 788, dubb 809)
Abe 5 (hoops 839, Danny 840, Pass 841, Tyrith 843, RendeR 844)
nfg 1 (CR 852)

[Thomkal]

Unvote JAG
Vote Abe

[Thomkal]

hey lerriugs you gonna vote?

[lerriuqs]

hey lerriugs you gonna vote?

Yup, just got caught up...Been gone all day again...

Vote Abe

[The Jackal]

Abe 7 (hoops 839, Danny 840, Pass 841, Tyrith 843, RendeR 844, Thomkal 854, lerriuqs 856)
JAG 6 (nfg 662, BK 679, DT 704, Abe 722, ntn 783, dubb 809)
nfg 1 (CR 852)

[Passacaglia]

That's weird.

[Passacaglia]

Is anyone planning to switch?

[RendeR]

VOTE NFG

I am rooting for some more JAG switches to Abe. I really think it's likely JAG is the brutal, and he will take Thomkal with him. And then I will be a goner tonight (unless we're lucky and Render didn't protect me last night).


I didn't protect either of you last night.

[Barkeep49]

Umm we want to kill the brutal wolf at some point. Just saying...

[DaddyTorgo]

yes. i'm switching

dunno if that will be enough to protect us from wolf manipulation though

UNVOTE JAG
VOTE ABE

[DaddyTorgo]

Umm we want to kill the brutal wolf at some point. Just saying...

very true

[Passacaglia]

yes. i'm switching

dunno if that will be enough to protect us from wolf manipulation though

UNVOTE JAG
VOTE ABE


With three wolves left, there's definitely room for manipulation.

[RendeR]

By the numbers it doesn't really matter WHO we kill, we have the votes and the numbers to take all of the uknowns out with plenty to spare.

The only worry is if they get to the center before we get the last one.

[Passacaglia]

By the numbers it doesn't really matter WHO we kill, we have the votes and the numbers to take all of the uknowns out with plenty to spare.

The only worry is if they get to the center before we get the last one.

Can you believe that wolves getting to the center actually slipped my mind? I guess we'd want to kill the wolf closest to the center. Unfortunately, I have no idea who that is, and I'm guessing you guys don't either, so that probably doesn't help us much.

[Passacaglia]

I just realized JAG hasn't voted. I wonder if he'll vote for himself, and someone on Abe will switch, to get a tie. Problem is that everyone who's on Abe now is probably a villager.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay - well all us villagers let's coordinate - if it looks like that is going to happen - where do we want the vote to end? we don't want to cancel each other out...we going for Abe right?

[RendeR]

IS there a reason we're NOT having a runaway a;; village vote for abe at this point?

[DaddyTorgo]

people didn't come back and switch off JAG cuz they figured it was a foregone conclusion

[DaddyTorgo]

8:52 - i don't see any alleged wolves here

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm - jag's here!

[DaddyTorgo]

that'd be one of the two they need to move to make a tie...

[DaddyTorgo]

Abe 8 (hoops 839, Danny 840, Pass 841, Tyrith 843, RendeR 844, Thomkal 854, lerriuqs 856, DT 862)
JAG 5 (nfg 662, BK 679, Abe 722, ntn 783, dubb 809)
nfg 1 (CR 852)

[DaddyTorgo]

sorry - they'd still need to move 2

[DaddyTorgo]

jag/pass/render/thomkal in thread with me - 8:58

[DaddyTorgo]

hi hoops

[DaddyTorgo]

1 min left - seems foregone conclusion

[DaddyTorgo]

10 in a row!

[hoopsguy]

hi hoops

evening, DT.

[DaddyTorgo]

DEADLINE

[DaddyTorgo]

9:01 - there we go

[Thomkal]

okay lets cross our fingers that we got it right...

[RendeR]

How can we really NOT have?

[Thomkal]

this is werewolf Render, I don't believe anything for sure until the mod tells us who died and their role. :)

[Chief Rum]

10 in a row!

Post whore

[The Jackal]

Results will be in in a little while.

[DaddyTorgo]

Post whore
yep!

[The Jackal]

The results are in, and Abe is the one on the chopping block. You all stare expectantly and sure enough, you aren't disappointed.

Abe shatters into millions of icy particles.

Abe was the Ancient of Ice!

[Thomkal]

woohoo!

[DaddyTorgo]

sweet!

[hoopsguy]

Well, just in case there was anything left to wonder about with the most recent reveals ... I think this pretty much leaves everyone locked and loaded and it is "paint by numbers" from here on out.

[The Jackal]

All moves should be out.

[Tyrith]

Least shocking result ever.

[RendeR]

wow I checked in for THIS. ;)

[The Jackal]

I'm not going to be around at noon tomorrow, so the night actions will be run at 11:00 AM.

[The Jackal]

We will skip Saturday and Sunday, btw. Night 4 will run from FRI at 9 PM to MON at 12 PM.

[Danny]

We will skip Saturday and Sunday, btw. Night 4 will run from FRI at 9 PM to MON at 12 PM.


Really? Can't we just kill NFG and Jag and be done with them over the weekend? :)

[The Jackal]

Really? Can't we just kill NFG and Jag and be done with them over the weekend? :)

You'll just have to be patient.

[hoopsguy]

(Taps foot impatiently).

[DaddyTorgo]

bah...that's a serious momentum-killer IMO. It's not my game of course, and GM is free to do as they see fit, but that just seems unnecessary.

[The Jackal]

bah...that's a serious momentum-killer IMO. It's not my game of course, and GM is free to do as they see fit, but that just seems unnecessary.

In a game with two moves a day I feel like people need a break, I know I certainly do, and I have had to commit at least an hour at my computer everyday this week at 12 or 9, and I have places to be at those times this weekend. Plus, it wouldn't be fair if there are 1+ people who simply don't check over the weekends, since it would give certain people an unfair advantage in the Labyrinth.

I'm not trying to stop the flow of the game.

[DaddyTorgo]

In a game with two moves a day I feel like people need a break, I know I certainly do, and I have had to commit at least an hour at my computer everyday this week at 12 or 9, and I have places to be at those times this weekend. Plus, it wouldn't be fair if there are 1+ people who simply don't check over the weekends, since it would give certain people an unfair advantage in the Labyrinth.

I'm not trying to stop the flow of the game.

fair nuff. that's true there's a movement component...i forgot about that. i retract my statement.

[The Jackal]

And actually, my cousins 24th birthday is tomorrow night, so I definitely will not be around for the deadline - so how about we put that on Sunday at 9 instead of tomorrow at 9. Sorry for any inconvenience, but I didn't know about this party until Wednesday.

[Danny]

Vote NFG

see you guys on Monday :)

[Abe Sargent]

lo all, let me get caugh up real quick

[hoopsguy]

Make sure to post as you go, Abe :)

[Abe Sargent]

The results are in, and Abe is the one on the chopping block. You all stare expectantly and sure enough, you aren't disappointed.

Abe shatters into millions of icy particles.

Abe was the Ancient of Ice!


I think it's amazingly poor form to know I leave at around 4:30, then start voting for me only after I leave, knowing I'm gone and unable to defend myself. Having said that, thanks for teh gam Jackal!

[hoopsguy]

Abe, I can only speak for my own vote. But I think that the timing on it was driven a lot more by my own schedule than yours.

1.) Could not post in the thread until 1PM EST, based on game events
2.) Real life work commitments impacting involvement in thread at times
3.) Doing some vote/post analysis to feel confident that you were the wolf in the pairing with RendeR
4.) Feeling like there were enough people that would be willing to move it from JAG to you, given concerns about brutal wolf

Anyway, I would have liked for you to be around to take part in the discussion. It would have been more fun and might have changed the result.

[nfg22]

So why are we going after me instead of JAG? We know he is a wolf.

In that case vote JAG

[Tyrith]

See you on SAturday :P

VOTE NFG

[DaddyTorgo]

wait - why are we voting nfg now and not killing the damn brutal?

[nfg22]

because tyrinth is a wolf and wants to delay killing wolfs?

[Barkeep49]

Vote JAG

I voted for him yesterday. I vote for him today.

[RendeR]

We need to consolidate ourselves guys, this split on which wolf to kill first seems kinda stupid. Does it matter now which is which? we know who they are, the brutal makes no difference.

[nfg22]

We need to consolidate ourselves guys, this split on which wolf to kill first seems kinda stupid. Does it matter now which is which? we know who they are, the brutal makes no difference.

Really? You know im a wolf? How? Because i got called out for a couple statements I made, which if you look through them are wholly consistent?

[DaddyTorgo]

VOTE JAG

[lerriuqs]

Abe, I can only speak for my own vote. But I think that the timing on it was driven a lot more by my own schedule than yours.

1.) Could not post in the thread until 1PM EST, based on game events
2.) Real life work commitments impacting involvement in thread at times
3.) Doing some vote/post analysis to feel confident that you were the wolf in the pairing with RendeR
4.) Feeling like there were enough people that would be willing to move it from JAG to you, given concerns about brutal wolf

Anyway, I would have liked for you to be around to take part in the discussion. It would have been more fun and might have changed the result.

That would be about it from my standpoint too...

[Danny]

I think it's amazingly poor form to know I leave at around 4:30, then start voting for me only after I leave, knowing I'm gone and unable to defend myself. Having said that, thanks for teh gam Jackal!

Not really, Render confirmed our thoughts after you had left which left little doubt as to your allegiance. I am sorry you weren't on, but it was a smart move on our part.

[Thomkal]

I think we need to go after the non-brutal wolf today if we know for sure which one that is-between Chief Rum and I, I'm hopeful one of us will survive to let us know that. I think the wolves might have expected us to go for JAG first since he was the one we knew for sure was a wolf, and let the other wolves try to get to the center of the labyrinth. So I think the smart move would be to take out the other wolf, who's likely closer to the center.

[Danny]

I think we need to go after the non-brutal wolf today if we know for sure which one that is-between Chief Rum and I, I'm hopeful one of us will survive to let us know that. I think the wolves might have expected us to go for JAG first since he was the one we knew for sure was a wolf, and let the other wolves try to get to the center of the labyrinth. So I think the smart move would be to take out the other wolf, who's likely closer to the center.

I agree and we'll see the result of the scan, but if one of you confirms which of NFG and Tyrith is the wolf, we should go there with the vote.

[Thomkal]

I think it's amazingly poor form to know I leave at around 4:30, then start voting for me only after I leave, knowing I'm gone and unable to defend myself. Having said that, thanks for teh gam Jackal!

yeah Abe, I can understand your feelings here, but the case against you did not solidify until you were gone-we figured out Render was the Paladin and he came forward to confirm it. The only roles you could have claimed at that point were the Paladin and the FBI agent-and we knew Chief Rum was the FBI agent. It was unlikely you were the Paladin over Render because there would have been simply no reason for you on night 1 to protect him over yourself or anyone else.

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree and we'll see the result of the scan, but if one of you confirms which of NFG and Tyrith is the wolf, we should go there with the vote.

that's true. we need to see those scan results first. oh and i need to submit a movement order before my conference call that will last till noon.

[Danny]

My quick vote was more of a joke about the lack of action until Monday. We'll see what the results of possible scans are.

[Passacaglia]

My quick vote was more of a joke about the lack of action until Monday. We'll see what the results of possible scans are.

Yeah, I figure none of these votes are really set in stone, but I wanted to wait for scan results, too.

[Passacaglia]

Okay, The Jackal, we want our results!!

[DaddyTorgo]

okay - just sharing - i dunno how everyone else's movement is going, but i keep running into dead ends nonstop.

[The Jackal]

A few movements left and then will post the results.

[nfg22]

I have run into one dead end..it was sad cause then I have to go back to where i came from thus wasting a move..

[The Jackal]

You awaken in the morning to an image of the Jester in front of you, as usual. He seems to be standing over something. He beckons you closer with a finger and pans your view downwards, where you see the charred remnants of Thomkal.

Thomkal was Mentok, the Mind Taker!

[nfg22]

And so my saga begins...no scan for me. I still say we go after JAG now...seeing as we have no seer left, so we need to kill the brutal sometime.

[The Jackal]

"Just thought you'd all like to know - there's SIX of you within six rooms of the middle! I wonder who!"

The Jester offers a mighty laugh then disappears.

[RendeR]

such fun....I found a little girl in the midle of a room, she is sobbing and I had the choice to find out what was wrong or ingore her, I chose to find out what was wrong (Paladin, duh)

I await the results of this...just fair warning that something gruesome might happen to me soon.

[Thomkal]

ah well knew it was coming sooner or later-good luck commoners!

[Danny]

good job thomkal!

Render I made a decision in my room too, hopefully we both don't die

[RendeR]

It would be just like jackal to toss in insta-kills to even the odds in a very one sided game =)

[Passacaglia]

What was your decision, Danny?

[Danny]

What was your decision, Danny?

I decided to run back like a little girl, or did I?

[Passacaglia]

I decided to run back like a little girl, or did I?

Well, that does sound like something you would do. Or does it?

[Passacaglia]

So I guess now we're just waiting for CR, right?

[Chief Rum]

And so my saga begins...no scan for me. I still say we go after JAG now...seeing as we have no seer left, so we need to kill the brutal sometime.

Who says you weren't scanned. You were, by me.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately for you), my scan failed again, so I did not learn your role.

I still think we want to avoid the brutal, so that means choosing between you and Tyrith, and I still feel Tyrith's story sound more real.

[DaddyTorgo]

Who says you weren't scanned. You were, by me.

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately for you), my scan failed again, so I did not learn your role.

I still think we want to avoid the brutal, so that means choosing between you and Tyrith, and I still feel Tyrith's story sound more real.

why do you still feel we want to avoid the brutal? we have a commanding lead as far as # of players. We should get the wolf that we know for 100% right now.

[nfg22]

Cops...you can never trust em. Anyways, I am sad you failed because I would have been cleared. At least this will make for a good day of voting, or rather two days.

[Passacaglia]

I think it would be nice to give you another chance at a scan, Chief, but I'm confused by the fact that Thomkal died. I figured RendeR would have guarded him. But apparently he didn't, so he must have guarded you? If that's the case, you're probably sunk anyway.

[Passacaglia]

To clarify: Thomkal revealed so late night-before-last that I can't imagine that anyone changed their plans because of it, which led me to think we were cool in that RendeR would be able to guard Thomkal last night. So I figured if we lost anyone, it would be CR. Maybe RendeR was just trying to outfox them by guarding CR, but you would think he'd want to make sure to guard the guy who gets a full scan.

[Danny]

If I was render and I could not have guarded the seer I would have guarded myself. Reasoning is if the wolves decided to attack CR instead Thomkal would have gotten off his scan and CR's death wouldn't have mattered anyway.

[nfg22]

RendeR said he could have guarded the seer. He said he guarded neither FBI or Seer the night before right? Maybe he lied so they wouldnt attack the seer?

[Danny]

It's generally not a good idea for the Bodyguard to be honest about who they guarded. If it were me, I would have hinted that I did guard the seer as that would likely leave more second guessing of the wolves than hinting that you did not guard him.

[Passacaglia]

It's generally not a good idea for the Bodyguard to be honest about who they guarded. If it were me, I would have hinted that I did guard the seer as that would likely leave more second guessing of the wolves than hinting that you did not guard him.

I agree with that point, so RendeR could have just been lying when he said he could guard the seer, to throw off the wolves. I'm not sure how much it all matters -- we'll have to ask Render whether or not he can guard CR, and we won't be able to believe him anyway.

[dubb93]

Vote JAG

At some point the brutal needs to go. That point is today, we are to the point where we don't need scans so there is no point in trying to beat around the bush here and save a seer.

[Chief Rum]

why do you still feel we want to avoid the brutal? we have a commanding lead as far as # of players. We should get the wolf that we know for 100% right now.

Because if Render didn't protect me last night, he can protect me tonight. But if we kill the brutal, the brutal almost certainly takes me with him.

Of course, we'll probably lynch one of the two remaining question marks (Tyrith or nfg), and that would clear the need for a scan anyway.

But, regardless, if we kill the brutal (assumed to be JAG), 100% certain you lose me AND you still won't know which of nfg and Tyrith is the wolf.

So I figure, take out nfg or Tyrith, so we can figure that out. If I also end up living because of it, great, one more villager for a day, and even if it's not needed, I'll throw a scan out there and hope I get a lucky roll for once.

[Passacaglia]

Vote JAG

At some point the brutal needs to go. That point is today, we are to the point where we don't need scans so there is no point in trying to beat around the bush here and save a seer.

If the argument is that we don't need scans, why does it matter which order we do it?

[Danny]

It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

[Chief Rum]

Vote JAG

At some point the brutal needs to go. That point is today, we are to the point where we don't need scans so there is no point in trying to beat around the bush here and save a seer.

Why vote the brutal, forcing the loss of a villager as well, and then have to return tomorrow still with the question of nfg/Tyrith to figure out?

Why not kill one of the latter two, don't lose a villager for another day, and figure out the last nagging qolf question left to us?

[Chief Rum]

It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

Why would we lynch Tyrith instead of a wolf in JAG in that situation?

[Passacaglia]

It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

huh?

[Passacaglia]

Oh I guess that makes sense -- we don't know what Loki's win condition is.

[Danny]

Why would we lynch Tyrith instead of a wolf in JAG in that situation?

What I mean is if we lynch Jag now then we follow by lynching NFG and Tyrith, even if NFG is a wolf. of course we don't lynch Loki over a wolf.

[Danny]

My point was is lynching Jag is fine because we don't need another scan really. I will go with a lynch of Jag or NFG today.

[Passacaglia]

My point was is lynching Jag is fine because we don't need another scan really. I will go with a lynch of Jag or NFG today.

This seems like you're saying we're just going to win anyway no matter what. While that may be true, I think it would be a huge blunder if we get sloppy and lose here. I don't know what all can happen, but I think we should be thinking this through.

[Passacaglia]

Not to say that I'm sold on an nfg vote -- I just think there's never a case where we don't need a scan. And maybe JAG's not even the brutal -- maybe he revealed first because he was furthest from the center at the time, or maybe he just happened to be online when Autumn revealed and chose his spot.

I just don't like the "we're going to win anyway" argument, since if you feel that way, you really don't care WHAT we do.

[Danny]

You're doing a lot of analyzing for not winning with us :). It's not that I don't care, i just don't think there will end up being a difference with either direction that we go. And you're right, while it's likely Jag is the brutal, it is not guaranteed.

[Danny]

That said, I don't think the wolves really know who is closest to center since Lathum died. I know I have no real clue how close the center I am.

[RendeR]

I lie about my scans to try and confuse people. Safest way to go.

Unfortunately I did not stop anything last night, nor saw anyone around my intended protect-ee.

[Passacaglia]

You're doing a lot of analyzing for not winning with us :). It's not that I don't care, i just don't think there will end up being a difference with either direction that we go. And you're right, while it's likely Jag is the brutal, it is not guaranteed.

I do win with you guys -- if the wolves win, there's no way I can win. So I hope my analysis is taken as well-intentioned, since I need you guys to beat the wolves.

You're probably right that they don't know for sure. But they might have a decent guess, based on who has wasted more time running into dead ends and such.

[nfg22]

Anyone know the villager to wolf ratio? How many do we have left, because after will kill JAG and Tyrinth and...eeek even me...will we have enough to possibly evade that minotaur. Even though he is friendly now, he wont be when we get near middle.

[nfg22]

It probably doesn't because I think we lynch Tyrith right after NFG even if NFG is the wolf.

I do understand your reasoning...under one condition..If I am not scanned, then I would kill me as I could have turned wolf and you did not know. I am Loki. The question is...which way did I turn. I would totally understand if you had to kill me to find out.

[Danny]

II. dubb93 - Phoenix
III. RendeR - Paladin
IX. hoopsguy - Telepath
X. lerriuqs - Theo
XI. Danny - Telepath
XII. Barkeep49 - Jekyl
XIII. Chief Rum - Private Eye
XVIII. DaddyTorgo Telepath

Villagers left, figure if the wolves kill another three of us (should be the most) that leaves 5 of us to race towards the center. If we hit on the two wolves without missing that leaves 6 of us.

[Danny]

Scan or not, Loki dies once the wolves are done. Even if you scanned as not a wolf, we don't know what additional choices would present themselves possibly. As far as I am concerned once Loki is gone we then lynch NTNdeacon as he is a neutral role as well. Then after that we just lynch Pass to our failure.

[Passacaglia]

Scan or not, Loki dies once the wolves are done. Even if you scanned as not a wolf, we don't know what additional choices would present themselves possibly. As far as I am concerned once Loki is gone we then lynch NTNdeacon as he is a neutral role as well. Then after that we just lynch Pass to our failure.

A couple problems:

1. From asking The Jackal, lynches will stop after the wolves are gone. Maybe he didn't think about neutral players, so we might want to ask him again.

2. I can't be lynched.

[nfg22]

Im against your idea of lynching me even if im good. That seems pointless..I think your a little paranoid.

[Danny]

A couple problems:

1. From asking The Jackal, lynches will stop after the wolves are gone. Maybe he didn't think about neutral players, so we might want to ask him again.

2. I can't be lynched.

1. If this is the case then that changes things.

2. Exactly, I was assuming we had to lynch somebody even once the wolves were gone and the point of lynching you is that it results in nothing and no villagers die.

[Danny]

Im against your idea of lynching me even if im good. That seems pointless..I think your a little paranoid.

I would be against lynching you if I was you also :D.

But we will be lynching Loki once the wolves are gone unless it is made known that all the wolves are gone and we have earned that minor victory.

[lerriuqs]

I like starting with nfg - worst case is that we have to lynch all three of them. Best case, we're done lynching on Monday and simply need to find the centre before the Minotaur gets the rest of us.

[dubb93]

Because if Render didn't protect me last night, he can protect me tonight. But if we kill the brutal, the brutal almost certainly takes me with him.

Of course, we'll probably lynch one of the two remaining question marks (Tyrith or nfg), and that would clear the need for a scan anyway.

But, regardless, if we kill the brutal (assumed to be JAG), 100% certain you lose me AND you still won't know which of nfg and Tyrith is the wolf.

So I figure, take out nfg or Tyrith, so we can figure that out. If I also end up living because of it, great, one more villager for a day, and even if it's not needed, I'll throw a scan out there and hope I get a lucky roll for once.

If we lynch NFG or Tyrith we won't need your scan anyway. Sorry CR, you are useless to us at this point. We go JAG you get brutaled. We go elsewhere and we are answering the only question ourselves that your scan could have answered. Welcome to uselessville. Population=your scans.

[nfg22]

Thanks! Start with me..I suppose even when I am a villager that leaves you guys with five anyways...

[DaddyTorgo]

we've known JAG was a wolf for what...2 days now? how about we lynch him already and stop being cute!!!! i was all for giving him a 1-day reprieve based on the arguments laid out there yesterday, but i'm done with that now

VOTE LYNCH JAG!!!!!!

[Danny]

I'm actually not convinced Dubb isn't a wolf Phoenix

Unvote nfg
Vote Dubb

[Passacaglia]

I'm actually not convinced Dubb isn't a wolf Phoenix

Unvote nfg
Vote Dubb

Seriously? It's listed in good roles.

[Danny]

Seriously? It's listed in good roles.

Hmm, trying to defend Dubb here? Maybe you are with him

Unvote Dubb
Vote Pass

[Chief Rum]

If we lynch NFG or Tyrith we won't need your scan anyway. Sorry CR, you are useless to us at this point. We go JAG you get brutaled. We go elsewhere and we are answering the only question ourselves that your scan could have answered. Welcome to uselessville. Population=your scans.

No, I already know my scans will end up being of no value at this point. What I am questioning is why we would choose the path that will get us two villagers killed today (regardless of those villagers' roles) and still leave us with a wolf question to resolve, when we can choose to go the less "villager-costly" route and resolve the only question left to us with respect to allegiance?

[Passacaglia]

Hmm, trying to defend Dubb here? Maybe you are with him

Unvote Dubb
Vote Pass

Someone's gone a little loco.

[Danny]

loco? Very similar to loki, are you trying to give us a hint here?

[Chief Rum]

lol at Danny.

I think you're overthinking this one.

[Passacaglia]

loco? Very similar to loki, are you trying to give us a hint here?

Sure. I am quite positive that, yes, someone is loki.

[DaddyTorgo]

No, I already know my scans will end up being of no value at this point. What I am questioning is why we would choose the path that will get us two villagers killed today (regardless of those villagers' roles) and still leave us with a wolf question to resolve, when we can choose to go the less "villager-costly" route and resolve the only question left to us with respect to allegiance?


because either way we're going to net-out the same. might as well get rid of what we suspect is the brutal while we have more villagers to absorb it

[Danny]

Sure. I am quite positive that, yes, someone is loki.

First someone is loco and now someone is loki? You need to get your story straight and stop backtracking!

[DaddyTorgo]

i think danny's just having fun...i hope.

[Passacaglia]

First someone is loco and now someone is loki? You need to get your story straight and stop backtracking!

I was just hinting the first time. My story is as straight as this labyrinth.

[Danny]

because either way we're going to net-out the same. might as well get rid of what we suspect is the brutal while we have more villagers to absorb it

In seriousness, I think I actually agree with this. If we wait on the brutal it is more likely he takes out someone close to the center. Once I get bored with my playing around my vote will probably be on Jag, though I am ok with nfg as well.

[lerriuqs]

DT has convinced me...

VOTE JAG

[Danny]

We need more cool items in games like there were in Abe's dungeon game. If I run a game again at some point I may go with a basic WW game with lots of unique and interesting items that be acquired and used.

[Chief Rum]

because either way we're going to net-out the same. might as well get rid of what we suspect is the brutal while we have more villagers to absorb it

I don't know why we would want to kill villagers sooner. Who knws what tricks are in this labyrinth? The person that the brutal takes tonight might be a move away from some teleport straight to the center.

Think of villager-days as a unit, being every day a villager is alive is a villager-day unit to benefit the village. By killing the brutal today, you're essentially saying we should go with X villager-day units instead of X villager-day units +1.

It doesn't make a big difference, sure. How likely is that one day to produce something tangible for the village? Not likely. But why pick the option that removes any value from it right away? At least if we go the other route (nfg/Tyrith), a question is being answered and we might also get something of value from that villager who will eventually be killed by the brutal.

We kill the brutal today, we don't get anything more of value from that villager, and the nfg/Trytih thing will still need another day to figure out.

[The Jackal]

Danny found the room of death!

Danny was a Telepath!

[Danny]

HAHAHA

[Danny]

Good luck guys

[dubb93]

congrats Danny. Epic achievement.

[DaddyTorgo]

lol wait is that real? or a joke?

[lerriuqs]

lol wait is that real? or a joke?

He's listed as dead on page 1.

[nfg22]

OK...serious? NO!!!!!!!! We cant kill JAG till we kill the other wolf. We cant lose another villager now.

UNVOTE JAG
VOTE TYRITH