WW CXXVI: Wolves in Asgard - Game Over (Result in Post 2538)

[Darth Vilus]

My Lord Odin, I will see you soon!

Remeber Me!!!

[Autumn]

Well since nobody handed me a list of wolves, I'm just doing what I can. Yes, I agree, if you are good then that didn't mean anything. That's why I suggested it could have been just happenstance. Would you rather I keep my vote on you and waste it?

[Barkeep49]

I don't remember exactly what time it was, but it seems it was first thing in the day. That's a bit early to say he had to reveal. Most wolves would have waited to see if they really needed to worry before pulling out a fake.
It was 10:30 AM. I think that's the exact right time to do a reveal of any sort. If you wait until later you are going to be greeted with a lot more suspicion unless you have some sort of collaborating evidence or your reveal makes other things make more sense.

[JAG]

Deadline

[Autumn]

Darth, if you're really a vanilla villager, I hope you go to Valhalla and something cool happens!

[Barkeep49]

Well since nobody handed me a list of wolves, I'm just doing what I can. Yes, I agree, if you are good then that didn't mean anything. That's why I suggested it could have been just happenstance. Would you rather I keep my vote on you and waste it?
I go back and forth on that question, so sometimes would be my answer.

[Autumn]

It was 10:30 AM. I think that's the exact right time to do a reveal of any sort. If you wait until later you are going to be greeted with a lot more suspicion unless you have some sort of collaborating evidence or your reveal makes other things make more sense.

All you've done is show me you're playing at Danny's advanced wolf level ;-) I agree, it was a very good move by him. I don't agree it's the norm. Most people reveal an hour or two before deadline.

[Chubby]

annnnnnnnnnnnd mau doesn't even move his vote...

[JAG]

Day 3 Final Voting:

Darth Vilus 10 - Narcizo (940), Barkeep49 (1030), mckerney (1049), J23 (1065), ntndeacon (1136), Lathum (1140), hoopsguy (1200), Racer (1204), Zinto (1223), Chubby (1229)
Lathum 7 - Thomkal (974), ntndeacon (988), MrBug708 (1012), EagleFan (1035), Darth Vilus (1188), Telle (1202), Autumn (1206)
Barkeep49 1 - mauboy1 (1153)
ntndeacon 1 - jeheinz72 (942)

Result after I finish the write-up

[Autumn]

I go back and forth on that question, so sometimes would be my answer.

Okay, well next time I'll leave it there ;-)

You can rest easy that my vote ended up wasted anyway.

[Autumn]

annnnnnnnnnnnd mau doesn't even move his vote...

Yeah I have to say mauboy's posts in the last hour have seemed a little fishy to me. I defended him day one or whenever it was that he was so wishy washy, but this looked more like a wolf trying to avoid sticking his neck out.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah I have to say mauboy's posts in the last hour have seemed a little fishy to me. I defended him day one or whenever it was that he was so wishy washy, but this looked more like a wolf trying to avoid sticking his neck out.
And since Barkeep is a wolf it's clear that mau was trying to earn credit later for having identified the wolf so he left the vote on Barkeep rather than move it. Sweet now we know two of the remaining wolves! This is so fun :)

[Barkeep49]

And since Barkeep is a wolf it's clear that mau was trying to earn credit later for having identified the wolf so he left the vote on Barkeep rather than move it. Sweet now we know two of the remaining wolves! This is so fun :)
This was said in jest. I actually don't have a good feeling about mau myself.

[Autumn]

I will refrain from suggesting people are wolves from now on, BK ...

So. how about them Vikings?

[Danny]

How about Tavaris Jackson? LOL at the Seahags!

[hoopsguy]

How about Tavaris Jackson? LOL at the Seahags!

Postwhore :)

[JAG]

After a contentious final couple of hours with many clamoring for Lathum and Barkeep49, you settle on Darth Vilus as your choice for a traitor. He goes quietly to the block and lays his head down, shaking it sadly. Lathum, all too happy to have avoided a similar fate, swings the heavy axe down to sever Darth Vilus' head when it instead transforms into a giant toe. Darth Vilus roars in pain and with the illusion destroyed, towers over you. A giant in Asgard! Disoriented from the pain, DV is unable to strike Lathum a crippling return blow and you are determined not to let anyone share the same fate as Tyr yesterday. A quick attack on DV's foot forces topples him over and the truth of the phrase 'The bigger they are, the harder they fall' is never more evident as DV's head crashes down on a rock as he falls over, killing him instantly.

Darth Vilus was Utgaard-Loki

Processing actions, will be back with the finish of Day 2 in a bit.

(again, Lathum above is just flavor as a DV voter)

[mauchow]

annnnnnnnnnnnd mau doesn't even move his vote...

I wasn't even around the last twenty minutes and when it was 10-7 it was pointless to move my vote to DV. I'm not going to make a token vote.

Not sure this can be used against me.

[mauchow]

And a great result.

[Chubby]

America... FUCK YEAH!

[hoopsguy]

Glad to be wrong today, and I'm guessing we've got meaningful vote history in here.

We're doing quite without the benefit of a seer.

[Autumn]

Wow, I have to say I'm surprised after convincing myself to change my mind in the last 30 minutes. That makes me feel better about Lathum, at first blush.

[Darth Vilus]

Huh? That wasn't my role...

[Telle]

Awesome job guys.

[Lathum]

Huh? That wasn't my role...

uh oh

[MrBug708]

...

[Autumn]

Darth was so tricky he tricked himself.

[Darth Vilus]

Recount!!!

[Autumn]

Darth's so giant his brain doesn't know he's dead yet.

[hoopsguy]

So I'm not sure if item PMs have arrived yet (I haven't gotten one) but I did attempt to pass an item to Chubby.

[Darth Vilus]

Darth's so giant

That's what Frigga, freyja and idunn said last night. All night....:party:

[JAG]

You congratulate each other on your successful killing of another one of Loki's agents. However, in all the excitement, you have lost track of J23. You find him 30 minutes later, slain with a dagger protruding from his shoulder blades. You note that he is a young man and a powerful looking warrior.

J23 was Magni

Day 4 now begins

[MrBug708]

So....

[Autumn]

Interesting. I think we're in good shape here, but we've got a lot more wolves to go!

[Lathum]

I must be the only vanilla villager in the game

[Autumn]

Yeah, Day four has begun and not a single vanilla villager dead. That's pretty crazy.

[Racer]

Chubby, would you like an item? Otherwise, I'll have to think more on who to pass it to.

[hoopsguy]

So I got another item today - first two days were mistletoe and Thor's Hammer. Today was an item that was not sure to be in the game ... thoughts on whether I should go public with the name? There should almost certainly be other players who already know it is in the game, unless somehow new items have come into being later in the game rather than at the outset.

[MrBug708]

Are the downsides to the item that bad? There isn't a huge list of known "villagers" and random isn't good (provided a death), but it's good to know what is out there?

[hoopsguy]

Not so much upside vs downside, just a matter of whether people feel like it is better for both villagers and wolves to know about items being in the game. Or if we might benefit from having some surprises for the wolves.

I've got thoughts (don't I always?) but figured I would solicit some input to help me make the decision.

[Chubby]

So I got another item today - first two days were mistletoe and Thor's Hammer. Today was an item that was not sure to be in the game ... thoughts on whether I should go public with the name? There should almost certainly be other players who already know it is in the game, unless somehow new items have come into being later in the game rather than at the outset.

I would like to know what your new item is

[Chubby]

Chubby, would you like an item? Otherwise, I'll have to think more on who to pass it to.

perhaps, is it listed in the rules?

[Racer]

perhaps, is it listed in the rules?

Yes.

[Autumn]

I think we knew there was a fourth item. I don't particularly see any reason to reveal it. I suppose the only reason is if someone wants to reveal their role in order to receive it. If you think it might be worth that, but that seems unlikely.

[mauchow]

I would also be curious what it is.

[hoopsguy]

I would like to know what your new item is

I would like to know if you got Thor's Hammer from me, or if you ended up with something else.

[hoopsguy]

I would like to know if you got Thor's Hammer from me, or if you ended up with something else.

Actually, I want to know this as long as the knowledge doesn't endanger you. Your call.

[MrBug708]

Can items ever be destroyed? Or is it once they are in the game, they are there for the duration?

[JAG]

Weekend play:

When you vote today, please vote for one of the following options:

Day 5 deadline: Sunday at 10pm EST
Day 5 deadline: Monday at 10pm EST

Majority vote will be the deadline of choice. Thanks.

[Chubby]

Can items ever be destroyed? Or is it once they are in the game, they are there for the duration?

excellent question, JAG? :)

[Lathum]

Autumn and Telle look pretty bad given the outcome, I'll likely be looking there tomorrow

[Chubby]

with J23's death I'll state the obvious.

I am Thor.

[JAG]

Can items ever be destroyed? Or is it once they are in the game, they are there for the duration?

excellent question, JAG? :)

You do not know the answer to this.

[Chubby]

You do not know the answer to this.

but you do, which is why it was asked :p

[Chubby]

yes I got my Hammer, or what appeared to be my Hammer. It turned to dust as soon as I got it which makes me think it was an illusion of Loki's.

Hence why I am very interested in the "non-listed" item that hoops now has.

[Autumn]

Huh, wow. I did not imagine that happening.

[EagleFan]

Crap, J23 had the mistletoe? Did he say who he passed it to?

[Autumn]

Tomorrow I will not be following closely, I'm taking the day off from work and our kids are going to be gone all day. Our first day without any kids in eight years ... I won't be spending a lot of time playing Werewolf.

I will try to check in though. I still am inclined to go after Barkeep. I feel better about Lathum, just based on Darth being willing to try to push him up, though that doesn't mean a ton. I think Mauboy bears looking into.

I think we should be able to learn something from the vote, there was a point I started keeping track where it was 6-5-5, and that should be interesting to look at. I know I'll get some attention as I chose Lathum over Darth. There should be other pivotal votes there too.

[Chubby]

will think about a couple of things as I head to bed. Not sure I will vote in the AM before work. I also work 6am-6pm EST tomorrow BTW

[MrBug708]

Sadly, I will only have limited phone use tomorrow as I will be out visiting my grandparents

[hoopsguy]

yes I got my Hammer, or what appeared to be my Hammer. It turned to dust as soon as I got it which makes me think it was an illusion of Loki's.

Hence why I am very interested in the "non-listed" item that hoops now has.

Hmm, that sucks quite a bit. Because there was nothing in my PM that gave any reason to think it wasn't legitimate.

Freyr's Magic Sword. I'll be moving that along as well, and if we can agree in thread on how to do it I'll most likely play ball with the consensus.

[MrBug708]

will think about a couple of things as I head to bed. Not sure I will vote in the AM before work. I also work 6am-6pm EST tomorrow BTW

Crazy shift. What exactly do you do?

[Chubby]

Crazy shift. What exactly do you do?

I run a c-store. It's just friday's as it's our busiest day. Other days are usually 6-3 barring any pain in the ass employees making excuses for why they are late... like today :rant:

[MrBug708]

I have the misstletoe btw

[Lathum]

what is a C-Store?

[Chubby]

what is a C-Store?

convenience store

[Thomkal]

Sunday 10pmEST for me

[MrBug708]

Monday is better

[ntndeacon]

Day 3 Final Voting:

Darth Vilus 10 - Narcizo (940), Barkeep49 (1030), mckerney (1049), J23 (1065), ntndeacon (1136) ,Lathum (1140), hoopsguy (1200), Racer (1204), Zinto (1223), Chubby (1229)
Lathum 7 - Thomkal (974), ntndeacon (988), MrBug708 (1012), EagleFan (1035), Darth Vilus (1188), Telle (1202), Autumn (1206)
Barkeep49 1 - mauboy1 (1153)
ntndeacon 1 - jeheinz72 (942)

Result after I finish the write-up

just a note that I did not vote for both of them. should be 10-7-1-1

[CrimsonFox]

convenience store


LIAR! It's the Crackho Sto', idn't it!

[Darth Vilus]

I can't believe you guys killed me. You suck

[Narcizo]

DAY ONE

#67 22:03 Lathum votes Heinz (1)
#72 22:47 EagleFan votes Autumn (0)
#75 23:27 Barkeep votes EagleFan (1)
#80 00:30 Ntndeacon votes Danny (1)
#90 02:30 Narcizo votes Lathum (1)
#94 04:06 mckerney votes ntndeacon (1)
#97 07:03 Hoops votes EagleFan (2)

#106 09:36 Autumn votes Chubby (1)
#117 10:11 Bhlloy votes Chubby (2)
#126 10:52 Lathum unvotes Heinz (0)
#126 10:52 Lathum votes Danny (2)
#134 11:25 MrBug votes Zinto (1)
#147 11:47 Racer voes Thomkal (1)
#150 12:47 Heinz votes Racer (1)
#165 13:32 EagleFan unvotes Autumn (-1)
#165 13:32 EageFan votes Chubby (3)
#171 13:55 Zinto votes Lathum (2)

#174 14:20 Autumn unvotes Chubby (2)
#174 14:20 Autumn votes EagleFan (3)
#178 15:03 Telle votes Autumn (0)
#195 16:02 Chubby votes Lathum (3)
#204 16:53 Lathum unvotes Danny (1)
#204 16:53 Lathum votes Chubby (3)
#205 16:53 Telle unvotes Autumn (-1)
#205 16:53 Telle votes Danny (2)

#217 17:11 Heinz unvotes Racer (0)
#217 17:11 Heinz votes Danny (3)
#222 17:38 Racer unvotes Thomkal (0)
#222 17:38 Racer votes EagleFan (4)
#224 17:40 Thomkal votes Lathum (4)
#236 18:18 Darth Vilus votes Chubby (4)
#238 18:21 Dubb93 votes Danny (4)
#270 19:42 mau votes Danny (5)
#271 19:45 mau unvotes Danny (4)
#273 19:45 mau votes Chubby (5)
#276 19:46 J23 votes EagleFan (5)

#294 21:02 EagleFan unvotes Chubby (4)
#297 21:07 EagleFan votes Autumn (0)
#300 21:13 Lathum unvotes Chubby (3)
#300 21:13 Lathum votes EagleFan (6)
#307 21:25 Racer unvotes EagleFan (5)
#307 21:25 Racer votes Danny (5)

#308 21:33 EagleFan unvotes Autumn (-1)
#308 21:33 EagleFan votes Danny (6)
#309 21:34 Lathum unvotes EagleFan (4)
#309 21:34 Lathum votes Chubby (4)
#310 21:34 Danny votes EagleFan (5)
#320 21:48 Zinto unvotes Lathum (3)
#320 21:48 Zinto votes Danny (7)

#324 21:51 Danny unvotes EagleFan (4)
#324 21:51 Danny votes Chubby (5)
#344 22:00 Chubby unvotes Lathum (2)
#344 22:00 Chubby votes EagleFan (5)
#346 22:00 Danny unvotes Chubby (4)
#346 22:00 Danny votes EagleFan (6)

Danny 7: ntndeacon (80), Telle (205), jeheinz72 (217), dubb93 (238), Racer (307), EagleFan (308), Zinto (320)
EagleFan 6: Barkeep49 (75), hoopsguy (97), Autumn (174), J23 (276), Chubby (344), Danny (346)
Chubby 4: bhlloy (117), Darth Vilus (236), mauboy1 (273), Lathum (309)
Lathum 2: Narcizo (90), Thomkal (224)
ntndeacon 1: mckerney (94)
Zinto 1: MrBug708 (134)

[Narcizo]

Day Two

#403 22:30 Chubby votes Lathum (1)
#429 22:51 Autumn votes Danny (1)
#470 05:58 Narcizo votes Mauboy (1)
#492 09:01 Danny votes Heinz (1)
#494 09:15 Zinto votes Danny (2)
#499 09:21 Barkeep votes Danny (3)
#501 09:32 Lathum votes Chubby (1)
#502 09:43 Bhlloy votes MrBug (1)
#508 09:59 Narcizo unvotes Mau (0)

#514 10:27 Danny Fake Reveals

#525 10:48 Autumn unvotes Danny (2)
#553 11:08 Autumn votes Darth Vilus (1)
#535 11:14 Heinz votes Racer (1)
#581 12:25 Bhlloy unvotes MrBug (0)
#583 12:31 EagleFan votes Lathum (2)
#607 13:17 Narcizo votes ntndeacon (1)
#609 13:27 Racer votes J23 (1)
#610 13:30 Zinto unvotes Danny (1)
#620 13:49 Zinto votes J23 (2)

#644 14:24 Darth Vilus votes Chubby (2)
#652 14:37 Barkeep unvotes Danny (0)
#652 14:37 Barkeep votes Chubby (3)
#656 14:40 ntndeacon votes Heinz (2)
#670 15:09 EagleFan unvotes Lathum (1)
#670 15:09 EagleFan votes Chubby (4)
#675 15:16 mckerney votes Chubby (5)
#681 15:37 Autumn unvotes DV (0)
#681 15:37 Autumn votes Heinz (3)
#685 15:58 Barkeep unvotes Chubby (4)
#690 16:21 Heinz unvotes Racer (0)
#690 16:21 Heinz votes Chubby (5)

#694 16:38 Chubby Semi-Reveals

#694 16:38 Chubby unvotes Lathum (0)
#694 16:38 Chubby votes Danny (1)
#696 16:40 Heinz unvotes Chubby (4)
#696 16:40 Heinz votes ntn (2)
#700 16:53 J23 votes Danny (2)
#704 16:57 Zinto unvotes J23 (1)
#705 16:59 Autumn unvotes Heinz (2)
#705 16:59 Autumn votes Danny (3)
#709 17:06 NTN unvotes Heinz (1)
#709 17:06 NTN votes Chubby (5)
#713 17:14 Zinto votes Danny (4)
#714 17:22 Mau votes Danny (5)

#722 17:31 Racer unvotes J23 (0)
#734 17:49 Racer votes Hoops (1)
#743 18:05 Hoops votes Danny (6)
#768 18:50 Racer unvotes Hoops (0)
#768 18:50 Racer votes Chubby (6)
#769 18:58 Barkeep votes Danny (7)
#774 19:04 Racer unvotes Chubby (5)
#777 19:15 Danny unvotes Heinz (0)
#777 19:15 Danny votes Chubby (6)

#782 19:21 Racer votes Lathum (1)
#786 19:26 NTN unvotes Chubby (5)
#787 19:27 NTN votes Heinz (1)
#809 21:00 Telle votes NTN (3)
#810 21:01 Racer unvotes Lathum (0)
#817 21:09 Bhlloy votes Chubby (6)
#818 21:09 Racer votes NTN (4)

#852 21:46 EagleFan unvotes Chubby (5)
#863 21:53 Lathum unvotes Chubby (4)
#863 21:53 Lathum votes Danny (8)
#865 21:55 Racer unvotes NTN (3)
#865 21:55 Racer votes Danny (9)
#867 21:55 EagleFan votes Danny (10)
#871 21:58 Thomkal votes Danny (11)
#874 21:58 MrBug votes Danny (12)


Danny 12 - Chubby (694), J23 (700), Autumn (706), Zinto (713), mauboy1 (714), hoopsguy (744), Barkeep49 (769), Lathum (863), Racer (865), EagleFan (867), Thomkal (871), MrBug708 (874)
Chubby 4 - Darth Vilus (644), mckerney (675), Danny (777), bhlloy (817)
ntndeacon 3 - Narcizo (607), jeheinz72 (694), Telle (809)
jeheinz72 1 - ntndeacon (787)

[Narcizo]

Day Three

#934 05:18 Chubby votes Lathum (1)
#940 07:46 Narcizo votes Darth Vilus (1)
#942 07:57 Heinz votes ntndeacon (1)
#950 09:22 Autumn votes Darth Vilus (2)
#957 09:39 Autumn unvotes Darth Vilus (1)
#957 09:39 Autumn votes Barkeep (1)
#966 10:42 Racer votes Barkeep (2)
#974 10:56 Thomkal votes Lathum (2)

#988 11:14 ntndeacon votes Lathum (3)
#1012 13:50 MrBug votes Lathum (4)
#1024 14:18 Zinto votes ntndeacon (2)
#1030 15:08 Barkeep votes Darth Vilus (2)
#1035 15:58 EagleFan votes Lathum (5)
#1049 16:51 mckerney votes Darth Vilus (3)
#1065 17:36 J23 votes Darth Vilus (4)
#1076 17:52 Lathum votes Darth Vilus (5)

#1099 19:25 Darth Vilus votes Lathum (6)
#1108 20:04 Autumn unvotes Barkeep (1)
#1108 20:04 Autumn votes Darth Vilus (6)
#1110 20:08 Racer unvotes Barkeep (0)
#1110 20:08 Racer votes Darth Vilus (7)
#1111 20:10 Racer unvotes Darth Vilus (6)
#1111 20:10 Racer votes Barkeep (1)
#1114 20:11 Autumn unvotes Darth Vilus (5)
#1114 20:11 Autumn votes Barkeep (2)
#1117 20:12 Zinto unvotes ntn (1)
#1117 20:12 Zinto votes Barkeep (3)

#1119 20:25 Darth Vilus unvotes Lathum (5)
#1119 20:25 Darth Vilus votes Barkeep (4)
#1129 20:44 Lathum unvotes DV (4)
#1129 20:44 Lathum votes Barkeep (5)
#1136 20:50 ntn unvotes Lathum (4)
#1136 20:50 ntn votes DV (5)
#1140 20:53 Lathum unvotes Barkeep (4)
#1140 20:53 Lathum votes DV (6)

#1153 21:04 mau votes Barkeep (5)
#1188 21:30 Darth Vilus unvotes Barkeep (4)
#1188 21:30 Darth Vilus votes Lathum (5)
#1200 21:42 Hoops votes Darth Vilus (7)
#1202 21:43 Telle votes Lathum (6)
#1204 21:44 Racer unvotes Barkeep (3)
#1204 21:44 Racer votes Darth Vilus (8)
#1206 21:46 Autumn unvotes Barkeep (2)
#1206 21:46 Autumn votes Lathum (7)
#1223 21:52 Zinto unvotes Barkeep (1)
#1223 21:52 Zinto votes DV (9)
#1229 21:53 Chubby unvotes Lathum (6)
#1229 21:53 Chubby votes DV (10)

Darth Vilus 10 - Narcizo (940), Barkeep49 (1030), mckerney (1049), J23 (1065), ntndeacon (1136), Lathum (1140), hoopsguy (1200), Racer (1204), Zinto (1223), Chubby (1229)
Lathum 6 - Thomkal (974), MrBug708 (1012), EagleFan (1035), Darth Vilus (1188), Telle (1202), Autumn (1206)
Barkeep49 1 - mauboy1 (1153)
ntndeacon 1 - jeheinz72 (942)

[Narcizo]

No time to analyse now.

Thor's Hammer turning out to be an illusion makes me suspicious of Hoops or Telle I must say. I'm sure it makes them suspicious of me as well. Presuming no-one else comes out and says that they have had Thor's Hammer (which is absolutely in the game, according to the rules) then it seems the wolves have taken it and created an illusion of it to create the chain. From what I can tell:
Telle -> Narcizo -> Hoops -> Chubby

[Chubby]

I think its best for everyone to send me their item if they have one, unless it's the mistletoe. Mistletoe doesn't need to be randomed. This way, if my hammer is disguised as something else it should stick to me.

obviously looking at lathum and heinze but i'm open to discussion.

[Narcizo]

You actually going to carry on hammering away at Lathum? You think it was wolf-wolf at the end?

Handing all the items to you is just about the worst thing we can do - it means you'll get one and all the rest will be dished out at random, meaning we lose the trail of where the items are. I don't think the baddies have made the hammer look like another item (although I could be wrong there, hadn't really thought about it), I think they have the hammer and created an illusion of the hammer to hand around. Admittedly it could go down the way you say.

And why is everyone afraid of the mistletoe? As long as the wolves don't get it and it's not given to EagleFan I think it's perfectly harmless.

[hoopsguy]

Narcizo, if you want to run with the plan of Thor's Hammer having passed through someone's hands in order to prepare the illusion I'll support that plan. Especially since your name is on the list and it is fairly counter-productive as a wolf that draws attention to you.

If that brings attention my way, so be it. I think I've been uber-villagerish this game, and I've got about as good a voting record as I've ever had over three days. Hasn't all been the product of brilliant play, but I think anyone who does a post/vote analysis on me is going to be have a hard time coming up with me as a credible wolf. Unless they are extremely paranoid, I suppose.

So the name on the list I would gravitate towards is Telle. She was a Day 1 Danny voter, but otherwise I don't see anything terribly positive about her votes. Wasn't at the top of my distrust list, but certainly doesn't have any trust either.

I'll see if I can find some time today to check out the thread over lunch to see if there are any developments. Otherwise, I'll have to vote and run when I get home from work because I'll be heading out of town for the weekend and certainly won't be around for deadline.

Oh, and I would want Monday for next deadline due to the trip mentioned above.

[Narcizo]

Ok here's the thing. I think as soon as Danny started the game he was expecting to be caught pretty soon - whether a scan or the inevitable day three "Why's Danny still alive". So I don't think votes from day one or two are that valuable. It's perfectly plausible that a wolf or two put their votes on him, thinking that it would look good for them when Danny was inevitably discovered. Hoops, you're often in a similar situation as a wolf, do you think that seems likely?

DV is a different kettle of fish. I think the wolves make more of an effort to save him - the case against him wasn't fantastic by the stretch of anyone's imagination (I got lucky, basically) and they could expect him to coast through the game as is his wont. So I think we should concentrate on the six unaccounted people who didn't vote DV yesterday. I'm going to assume that there are three wolves left and I think we'll find two of them not voting DV.

[hoopsguy]

Disagree a little bit - I think Day 1 has value. No reason to give Danny up right away. Perhaps a massive effort wouldn't be made to save him, but there is no reason to nudge a lynch in his direction.

Day 2 is the day I think the wolves would be very, very cautious about how they played around Danny.

Completely agree on Day 3 as it relates to DV voting patterns.

[Narcizo]

Narcizo, if you want to run with the plan of Thor's Hammer having passed through someone's hands in order to prepare the illusion I'll support that plan. Especially since your name is on the list and it is fairly counter-productive as a wolf that draws attention to you.


As I'm sure someone will remember I have said that drawing attention as a wolf to a group of three or four is not something I'm afraid of doing as it normally gets you the most trust in the group and if you can chip off a villager or two then other stuff might come up to distract people from you after that.

But yes, I agree with you. :)

I don't necessarily think that the hammer has to be passed through the wolves' hands to create the illusion but if it hasn't ended up with the wolves then where is it?

Either it's camoflauged as another item or it's also been passed around independently of the illusion. So it's pretty important if a villager can come out and say if they've seen the Hammer.

If Telle is a wolf I'm not sure I really understand why she admitted to having the Hammer in the first place and why she said it went randomly. Maybe she thought that her second vote on Danny would look good and she could set someone else (me?) up.

Telle - a few questions if you don't mind. Were you informed that you had the Hammer in your initial PM? And why did you vote Danny on day one?

[hoopsguy]

Change of plans, looks like I will have access to FOFC today. So I'll be in and out to participate in discussion.

J23 made a lot of sense for the target, in terms of a trusted guy that would be hard to block with other revealed/roled villagers out there. I'm not sure if there is anything to pick up on by examining the night kill.

[jeheinz72]

obviously looking at lathum and heinze but i'm open to discussion.

Bottom line, I'm not really going to fight it. I'm just a vanilla villager and while it'll be unfortunate, it's not the end of the world.

BUT, keep in mind I leave for the day over 4 hours before deadline. At the time the voting landscape was significantly different than how it ended up. When I voted (or when I left might be a more accurate way to look at it), it was Lathum, DV, BK, and NTN

I didn't, and still don't, get a wolf read off Lathum

The case at the time against DV was largely based on his being UTR, and i've never even played with the guy I don't think so that's really not going to swap me much.

The BK case was helpful-wolf, I disagreed with it. I've seen BK do that as a villager (though and a wolf) before. He's a thorough poster and when he latches onto something he tends to not let it go until it's been run through both spin cycles, IMO.

So NTN it was

So yeah, there it is, if you folks wanna lynch me it's cool, I'm really just posting this for my own justification afterwards :)

[hoopsguy]

Looking at the Day 3 voting:
- Narcizo starts off the voting on DV and Barkeep and mckerney both boosted Darth into the race with their votes. Good marks for all three of them.
- Racer wanted to vote Barkeep pretty clearly, and Zinto followed him onto Barkeep later after having voted for NTN earlier. Zinto especially stands out as a bad couple of votes for me as he had multiple shots to vote for DV but choose different candidates both times.
- Autumn was on DV multiple times, but he also seemed to want to go after Barkeep. As I stated last night, I didn't think Barkeep was at all an optimal vote for yesterday ... going after the "wolf burying wolf" thing the very next day seemed like shaky logic to me.
- ntn unvoted Lathum and moved to DV, which was a very big move at the time if Lathum is a villager. The vote at the time was 5-5-4 with Lathum/BK ahead of DV. If NTN was a wolf I am quite sure he buries a villager instead of pushing DV up the ladder.
- Telle put a vote on Lathum, making it 7-6 DV over Lathum. Last ditch effort to save a wolf?
- Racer makes a change from BK to DV, putting vote at 8-6 and effectively pulling BK out of the running. Will give him more trust for this than I was before.
- Autumn removes vote from BK and puts it on Lathum. Again, if Lathum is a villager then Autumn had a very bad day of voting.
- Zinto moves vote off BK and puts it on DV. Same notes as above for Racer ... don't trust, but key late movement onto wolf gets them out of my gunsights for a day at least.
- Chubby closes the door on any wolf thoughts of saving DV with his move, putting margin at 10-6 with 7 minutes to go.

[Narcizo]

See how this looks. The person's vote is the first one.

Day one votes
Lathum/EagleFan/Chubby/Danny

Day two votes
Danny/Chubby/NTN

Day Three votes
Darth Vilus /Barkeep/Lathum


Thomkal - Lathum (4-4-3-3), Danny (11-4), Lathum (2-2-1)
MrBug - Zinto, Danny (12-4), Lathum (4-2-1)
Telle - Danny (2-3-3-3), NTN (3-5-7), Lathum (6-7-4)
Autumn - Eagle (3-2-2-2), Danny (3-4), Lathum (7-8-2)
mauboy - Chubby (5-4-4-4), Danny (5-5), Barkeep (5-6-4)
jeheinz - Danny (3-3-3-3), NTN (2-4-1), NTN (1-1-1)

[Autumn]

Posting real quick. I want to suggest that maybe a Telle-wolf says she has the hammer because the wolves are hoping Thor will come forward to ask for it? Danny's reveal (revealing as Thor instead of a role they know isn't in the game, which I believe we are certain they have) suggests they have a need to find Thor. So perhaps it was important enough to try to draw him out with a fake hammer.

We don't know the rules enough, but it may be that it will be hard for them to win once Thor has his hammer.

[mauchow]

Chubby said last night he is Thor..

with J23's death I'll state the obvious.

I am Thor.

[mauchow]

Should be an interesting day. I have to get ready for work now but wanted to check in for a second and do a quick skim before headed to daycare and then work.

As always, I will have access on my phone at work and will post when I can.

[Barkeep49]

See how this looks. The person's vote is the first one.

Day one votes
Lathum/EagleFan/Chubby/Danny

Day two votes
Danny/Chubby/NTN

Day Three votes
Darth Vilus /Barkeep/Lathum


Thomkal - Lathum (4-4-3-3), Danny (11-4), Lathum (2-2-1)
MrBug - Zinto, Danny (12-4), Lathum (4-2-1)
Telle - Danny (2-3-3-3), NTN (3-5-7), Lathum (6-7-4)
Autumn - Eagle (3-2-2-2), Danny (3-4), Lathum (7-8-2)
mauboy - Chubby (5-4-4-4), Danny (5-5), Barkeep (5-6-4)
jeheinz - Danny (3-3-3-3), NTN (2-4-1), NTN (1-1-1)
I don't understand this chart.

[Barkeep49]

Also is there a reason I missed for hoops to keep getting items? He presented a good case for him being a villager (while establishing anyone who disagreed as paranoid, always a good rhetorical move) so I'm not suggesting he's a wolf. But it does raise an eyebrow that he seems to have so many items headed his way AND he passed a fake hammer to Thor. Just an eyebrow.

I'm much more sympathetic to the case that Autumn is a wolf, but part of that I'm sure is his fascination with me being a wolf.

[Lathum]

I am absolutely baffled that chubby would even consider voting me today.

[Danny]

Has anyone considered Daddytorgo? He's been awfully quiet

[hoopsguy]

Also is there a reason I missed for hoops to keep getting items? He presented a good case for him being a villager (while establishing anyone who disagreed as paranoid, always a good rhetorical move) so I'm not suggesting he's a wolf. But it does raise an eyebrow that he seems to have so many items headed his way AND he passed a fake hammer to Thor. Just an eyebrow.

I'm much more sympathetic to the case that Autumn is a wolf, but part of that I'm sure is his fascination with me being a wolf.

From my side, I'm happy to be getting them because it means they aren't going to a wolf and I hope/think I'm making good decisions with distributing them. But I can't speak to why I keep getting them either ... that is 100% out of my hands.

[Narcizo]

The chart is supposed to show each person's vote in terms of the voting record at the time of their vote.

Based on my incomprehensible chart I feel good about Heinz. While Telle's vote got Danny past the joke-vote stage I think she could reasonably expect Lathum, Eagle and Chubby to garner the most votes for the rest of the day. Heinz, on the other hand, put Danny on a level footing with the rest of the day one candidates.

I think Thomkal and Bug are the best candidates in terms of pure voting history. Both of their second day votes were so late that they didn't matter. I didn't like the way Bug was voting Lathum because he trusted Chubby - perfect excuse if Lathum turns up villager. Thomkal was pushing at Lathum. While I recognise that he had a decent case he has to accept that his reasoning left him pushing an unknown over a wolf.

Autumn getting blinkers on Barkeep and those blinkers apparently leading him to vote Lathum over Darth Vilus looks really bad. Seems like he was using any excuse to defend DV - despite claiming to be after him for two days. I give him a smidgeon of trust over the way he corralled voters onto Danny day two - but I think he would recognise that Danny was a lost cause and understood Chubby's reveal. He did vote DV in the stage between reveals on day two but moved to Heinz. Which seems odd as that was Danny's candidate.

If you recognise that Chubby was revealing as Thor then mau putting the fifth vote on Danny is pretty irrelevant. Other than that he put Chubby in the lead when 4-4-4-4 on day one and chased after Barkeep day three.

I think there are a number of good candidates. Not sure who's the best one though.

[Narcizo]

From my side, I'm happy to be getting them because it means they aren't going to a wolf and I hope/think I'm making good decisions with distributing them. But I can't speak to why I keep getting them either ... that is 100% out of my hands.

I gave my reasoning for giving them to Hoops. He came out about receiving the mistletoe on day two and I thought EagleFan would be deluged with items so I didn't want the Hammer to get sent off at random. I trusted him to make a good choice of who to hand the Hammer off to assuming he was/is a villager.

[Autumn]

Chubby said last night he is Thor..

I understand that. My point was about why Telle might have revealed having the hammer, or a fake hammer, on day one, when no one knew who Thor was.

[Narcizo]

Can't believe no-one's said

"Stop! Hammer time!" yet.

[Autumn]

I'm out for large portions of the day if not all day. I can see why I would get attention since I ended up voting Lathum instead of DV. All I can say is I've pushed DV into contention several times in the game, as well as Danny. If I was playing the helpful wolf I would have just voted DV after all that. No reason to keep pushing wolves in the vote and then not get any trust for it.

I have no idea how often I'll be around so I'm just throwing out a vote. I have no idea who's going to be garnering votes today, and i don't have time to look up vote histories, so I'm just going back to Barkeep who I still have a strong feeling is a wolf. With any luck I'll have a chance to move my vote around before deadline.

<b>vote barkeep49</b>

[Narcizo]

Vote Thomkal

For now. This is very subject to change and I want other people's take on things before making a final decision.

[Danny]

2 legit 2 quit

[Racer]

No time to analyse now.

Thor's Hammer turning out to be an illusion makes me suspicious of Hoops or Telle I must say. I'm sure it makes them suspicious of me as well. Presuming no-one else comes out and says that they have had Thor's Hammer (which is absolutely in the game, according to the rules) then it seems the wolves have taken it and created an illusion of it to create the chain. From what I can tell:
Telle -> Narcizo -> Hoops -> Chubby

I received it last night and then passed it to Chubby. So I was the one who passed what turned out to be a fake hammer to Chubby.

[jeheinz72]

Wait, so hoops and Racer both passed what they thought was Thor's hammer, to Chubby, and Chubby got the fake one?

[Racer]

Wait, so hoops and Racer both passed what they thought was Thor's hammer, to Chubby, and Chubby got the fake one?

I got mine at the end of the day. Then passed it a bit later. Then a couple minutes later Chubby came out and said he had the hammer and it turned to dust. I assume he got mine.

[jeheinz72]

Can you be more specific as to "end of the day" and "a bit later"

I'm also then curious on the timing of hoops passing his hammer

[Narcizo]

I believe item moving occurs after the lynch but before the night kill - and if two items and handed over to one person that person receives one of them at random and the other is dished out at random. Which means that someone should have the hammer.

[MrBug708]

I received it last night and then passed it to Chubby. So I was the one who passed what turned out to be a fake hammer to Chubby.

THis is confusing? Did you pass it a second time in one night?

[Narcizo]

Can you be more specific as to "end of the day" and "a bit later"


Yeah - my understanding is that you get the item at the start of the day.

[Narcizo]

It's not certain that yours was the fake but this makes me feel a bit better about Telle.

[Narcizo]

often I'll be around so I'm just throwing out a vote. I have no idea who's going to be garnering votes today, and i don't have time to look up vote histories, so I'm just going back to Barkeep who I still have a strong feeling is a wolf. With any luck I'll have a chance to move my vote around before deadline.

<b>vote barkeep49</b>

I just find it hard to believe that you would think voting Barkeep makes sense at this stage. Are you Chubby? This just seems like you're keeping your options open to move your vote to potentially save a wolf buddy later in the day. But I can't imagine you thinking that voting Barkeep makes sense if you're a wolf either. I just can't make head or tails of this.

[Telle]

Telle - a few questions if you don't mind. Were you informed that you had the Hammer in your initial PM? And why did you vote Danny on day one?

Yes, I was informed that I had the Hammer in my initial PM. As for Danny.. it was time to consolidate. As I recall the votes were REALLY spread out. Out of the available people who already had at least one vote, he was the most appealing since he ticked me off going on and on about how horrible my Autumn vote was.

[Racer]

You congratulate each other on your successful killing of another one of Loki's agents. However, in all the excitement, you have lost track of J23. You find him 30 minutes later, slain with a dagger protruding from his shoulder blades. You note that he is a young man and a powerful looking warrior.

J23 was Magni

Day 4 now begins

Chubby, would you like an item? Otherwise, I'll have to think more on who to pass it to.

perhaps, is it listed in the rules?

Yes.

with J23's death I'll state the obvious.

I am Thor.

yes I got my Hammer, or what appeared to be my Hammer. It turned to dust as soon as I got it which makes me think it was an illusion of Loki's.

Hence why I am very interested in the "non-listed" item that hoops now has.

Can you be more specific as to "end of the day" and "a bit later"

I'm also then curious on the timing of hoops passing his hammer

I received a pm at 10:29 pm last night that I had received Thor's hammer. Hence why I then I asked if he wanted my item (knowing he was either Thor or Modi). I was debating it until Chubby came out at 10:58 pm proclaiming to be Thor. Looking back at my sent PMs, I sent an action to JAG at 11:01 pm to send Thor's Hammer to Chubby. At 11:02 pm, Chubby said he had Thor's hammer. Until this morning, I didn't realize he had said it turned to dust. I still thought it was the hammer that I sent him. However, now that I've written this, it seems unlikely given the time frame. JAG would have had to PM Chubby and Chubby would have had to come out and say he had the hammer in a time frame of 1 to 2 minutes.

[Telle]

I understand that. My point was about why Telle might have revealed having the hammer, or a fake hammer, on day one, when no one knew who Thor was.

I didn't reveal that on Day 1. I revealed on Day 2 that I had had the hammer on Day 1, and that I let it go random. Other people were revealing items they had and what they did with them, so I thought it was prudent to be open about my dealings with an item.

[Narcizo]

Racer I think you probably still have the Hammer. I think it was handed to you at the start of today and you've asked for it to be handed to Chubby tonight. Ask JAG if you still have the Hammer in your possession.

Which means that "our" Hammer is the fake.

I think. Although it's making my head hurt.

[Narcizo]

Anyway, this makes me think that the game probably started with the fake hammer. To add confusion.

[Narcizo]

Oh I forgot

Vote Monday, Day Five

[hoopsguy]

Wait, so hoops and Racer both passed what they thought was Thor's hammer, to Chubby, and Chubby got the fake one?

I got mine at the end of the day. Then passed it a bit later. Then a couple minutes later Chubby came out and said he had the hammer and it turned to dust. I assume he got mine.

Catching up, but I got my notification on the hammer within 30 minutes of the deadline, just as I did for all of the other items I have received so far this game.

[Barkeep49]

As long as we're in a day cycle over the weekend as I hate being in a night cycle where there can be basically no weekend activity

Vote Monday

[hoopsguy]

Racer I think you probably still have the Hammer. I think it was handed to you at the start of today and you've asked for it to be handed to Chubby tonight. Ask JAG if you still have the Hammer in your possession.

Which means that "our" Hammer is the fake.

I think. Although it's making my head hurt.

Agree with this, after tracking down the posts Racer referenced.

[jeheinz72]

Catching up, but I got my notification on the hammer within 30 minutes of the deadline, just as I did for all of the other items I have received so far this game.

You mean 30 minutes after deadline right?

So you got yours Wednesday night, and passed it to Chubby, passing which happened last night?

[jeheinz72]

Which would then mean Racer has the real hammer, now, and can pass to Chubster tonight.

[hoopsguy]

You mean 30 minutes after deadline right?

So you got yours Wednesday night, and passed it to Chubby, passing which happened last night?

Yeah, here is my items timeline:
Start of D2 (Wednesday): got mistletoe, passed to J23, who confirmed receiving it
Start of D3 (yesterday): got hammer, passed to Chubby, who had hammer turn to dust
Start of D4 (today): got dancing sword, have not yet decided where to pass it

[JAG]

As long as we're in a day cycle over the weekend as I hate being in a night cycle where there can be basically no weekend activity

Vote Monday

Day 4 will fully process and Day 5 will begin sometime post-deadline tonight. (another way of saying, I agree with you)

[Thomkal]

The chart is supposed to show each person's vote in terms of the voting record at the time of their vote.

Based on my incomprehensible chart I feel good about Heinz. While Telle's vote got Danny past the joke-vote stage I think she could reasonably expect Lathum, Eagle and Chubby to garner the most votes for the rest of the day. Heinz, on the other hand, put Danny on a level footing with the rest of the day one candidates.

I think Thomkal and Bug are the best candidates in terms of pure voting history. Both of their second day votes were so late that they didn't matter. I didn't like the way Bug was voting Lathum because he trusted Chubby - perfect excuse if Lathum turns up villager. Thomkal was pushing at Lathum. While I recognise that he had a decent case he has to accept that his reasoning left him pushing an unknown over a wolf.

Autumn getting blinkers on Barkeep and those blinkers apparently leading him to vote Lathum over Darth Vilus looks really bad. Seems like he was using any excuse to defend DV - despite claiming to be after him for two days. I give him a smidgeon of trust over the way he corralled voters onto Danny day two - but I think he would recognise that Danny was a lost cause and understood Chubby's reveal. He did vote DV in the stage between reveals on day two but moved to Heinz. Which seems odd as that was Danny's candidate.

If you recognise that Chubby was revealing as Thor then mau putting the fifth vote on Danny is pretty irrelevant. Other than that he put Chubby in the lead when 4-4-4-4 on day one and chased after Barkeep day three.

I think there are a number of good candidates. Not sure who's the best one though.

Just a quick jump in here to comment on this and to let you know I'm mostly going to be away from my computer for a good chunk of the afternoon.

I have no real defense against what Narcizo said about me here. I moved late on Danny and I can understand why people would think its a wolf move. My hesitation on voting for Danny stemmed more from the Day 1 debacle in the Dark Knight game where Danny pulled something similar, I helped support him wanting to be lynched, he turned out to be the Joker, and it was basically game over for the village (so like Chubby I was happy to choose the right way this time over the guy who got me in that game).

I really thought I was on the right track with Lathum and I still may be despite last night's results. I would find it surprising that wolves would push DV over a fellow wolf in Lathum, as there was still going to be suspicion on him. And frankly if I changed late to Darth, it would have made me look even more like a wolf. After feeling so strongly about Lathum being a wolf, I just couldn't see backing off him even at the end.

So vote me if you feel you must, but I really am just a villager with a bad voting record.

[EagleFan]

vote hoops

Not a fan of his voting record. Will jump on later to try to explain more. Heading to yet another meeting so no time at the moment.

[Barkeep49]

vote hoops

Not a fan of his voting record. Will jump on later to try to explain more. Heading to yet another meeting so no time at the moment.
I certainly have a raised eyebrow myself. I can't quite decide what to make of his voting history which I think is very strong, but not quite as bulletproof as he does.

[Narcizo]

vote hoops

Not a fan of his voting record. Will jump on later to try to explain more. Heading to yet another meeting so no time at the moment.

I find that very odd. You think his voting record is worse than Thomkal, Bug or Autumn's?

[Narcizo]

I had my worries about Hoops with this business with the Hammer being a fake but with a decent explanation for that I can't see any way he deserves a vote over the likes of, well, a lot of people out there. There's also the fact that he's been perfectly transparent in his dealings with items when there's a chance he might have been able to grab the mistletoe.

[hoopsguy]

Look, you guys can vote for me if you want - I'm a vanilla villager and no great loss to the group. But I think you are certifiably insane if you think that I'm the best choice for a vote based on a number of items.

1.) I had the mistletoe and passed it to J23, who confirmed receiving it. I was public with this knowledge and made sure to coordinate with EagleFan on how this should be distributed.
2.) I put down what I consider key votes on both Danny and Darth the last two days. No moving around (didn't have time to do so, based on availability) and both were wolves in tight races at the time I cast the votes.

You can argue that the wolves will always have the opportunity to have great voting records, and that is true. But from time to time villagers get stuff right as well and I've been fortunate with that this game. Danny I was pretty darn sure was a wolf, but I was mildly surprised DV was one. That was a case of good fortune on the vote rather than any kind of penetrating insight.

[Narcizo]

On the other hand Hoops

How come you're still alive on day four?

:)

[Lathum]

I really thought I was on the right track with Lathum and I still may be despite last night's results. I would find it surprising that wolves would push DV over a fellow wolf in Lathum, as there was still going to be suspicion on him. And frankly if I changed late to Darth, it would have made me look even more like a wolf. After feeling so strongly about Lathum being a wolf, I just couldn't see backing off him even at the end.
.

If DV and I are both wolves why would we vote for each other? It would have been perfectly logical for us both to vote BK and play it off that we made self defense votes.

[Narcizo]

I'm thinking about hopping my vote over to Autumn because I find it strange that he's still willing to chase Barkeep (well, that and other stuff). But Eagle's vote has left me wondering if it's me who's gone mad.

[hoopsguy]

Heh - just lucky, I guess?

Seriously, I would like to better understand what happened the night we have no kill. We've assumed that Chubby/Thor (or maybe EF/Balder, but more doubtful) has the bodyguard role, but I don't think there has been any explanation at all offered up in the thread as to what happened. The wolves will know, so right now the villagers are operating at a disadvantage in terms of interpreting that (non)result.

The reasons I could see for keeping it quiet is that roles aren't spelled out, so maybe our identified role players are more comfortable with keeping their abilities to themselves. But I'll admit I'm starting to ask the question of why they haven't been touched. Killing J23 makes sense for last night, but those two players would be the most likely conversion targets.

It isn't a path I want to pursue too much, but it is something that I thought about in the "why still alive" school of thought.

[Barkeep49]

If DV and I are both wolves why would we vote for each other? It would have been perfectly logical for us both to vote BK and play it off that we made self defense votes.
Except that both you DID have your votes on me until the vote on me fizzled.

[Narcizo]

Except that both you DID have your votes on me until the vote on me fizzled.

I don't think that's really true Barkeep. I think Lathum spent most of the day with his vote on Darth. It was only when Darth seemed to be losing momentum that he shifted to you. And the votes on you only really started to fizzle out when he moved his vote back to Darth.

God, if Lathum turns out to be a wolf I'm going to be so pissed off.

[Barkeep49]

Heh - just lucky, I guess?

Seriously, I would like to better understand what happened the night we have no kill. We've assumed that Chubby/Thor (or maybe EF/Balder, but more doubtful) has the bodyguard role, but I don't think there has been any explanation at all offered up in the thread as to what happened. The wolves will know, so right now the villagers are operating at a disadvantage in terms of interpreting that (non)result.

The reasons I could see for keeping it quiet is that roles aren't spelled out, so maybe our identified role players are more comfortable with keeping their abilities to themselves. But I'll admit I'm starting to ask the question of why they haven't been touched. Killing J23 makes sense for last night, but those two players would be the most likely conversion targets.

It isn't a path I want to pursue too much, but it is something that I thought about in the "why still alive" school of thought.
Vote hoops

My case against him is thus:

His voting record while solid is frequently solid only once the decision is clear
He passed a fake object to Thor. This fake object passing could explain why the wolves killed J23 rather than Chubby (perhaps hoping the fake hammer would do damage/fool Chubby).
He is trying to undermine our circle of trust after two consecutive days of wolves. Way to early to start asking the "why aren't they dead" question.

There are people with worse voting records than hoops, but his posting record pushes me over the edge.

[hoopsguy]

BK, can you please go and find what the vote tally was for Danny on D2 and DV on D3 when I cast the votes? I'll look them up as well, but I'm quite sure I was not remotely piling on in either case.

I'm not trying to undermine any circle of trust. But if people don't wonder what happened on the night with no kill, they aren't paying attention. I haven't commented on it until now and it was only in the context of Narcizo's (I assume) joking post.

[Barkeep49]

I don't think that's really true Barkeep. I think Lathum spent most of the day with his vote on Darth. It was only when Darth seemed to be losing momentum that he shifted to you. And the votes on you only really started to fizzle out when he moved his vote back to Darth.

God, if Lathum turns out to be a wolf I'm going to be so pissed off.
I've long thought Lathum is a villager. His threats to take his ball and go home and then coming back gives me some pause (would feel more of an obligation to not screw over a team of wolves through unavailability), but I'm not suggesting he's a wolf.

[Narcizo]

I don't think that's really true Barkeep. I think Lathum spent most of the day with his vote on Darth. It was only when Darth seemed to be losing momentum that he shifted to you. And the votes on you only really started to fizzle out when he moved his vote back to Darth.


If DV and Lathum both kept their vote on you I think it's very likely that you would have been lynched.

[hoopsguy]

From post #1323 by Narcizo:
"#743 18:05 Hoops votes Danny (6)"

This made the vote 6-5 Danny over Chubby

From post #1324 by Narcizo:
"#1200 21:42 Hoops votes Darth Vilus (7)"

This made the vote 7-5-4 CV over Lathum over Barkeep

[hoopsguy]

Dola, CV clearly stands for Darth Vilus.

No editing, no by this Norseman.

[Narcizo]

Now I know the world's gone mad. WTF BK?

[Lathum]

Except that both you DID have your votes on me until the vote on me fizzled.

not true, when I switched back to him the vote was very close still

[Barkeep49]

If DV and Lathum both kept their vote on you I think it's very likely that you would have been lynched.
I don't think this is true. But I will grant you that Lathum was pretty intent on voting DV and went back to DV at the first opportunity.

[Narcizo]

So halfway through day four and three of the four votes out there are on people who voted to lynch Darth? Way to keep things simple.

[hoopsguy]

I'm going to go with one of the guys that I've been the most suspicious of so far this game. Could probably flip a coin between him and Thomkal, with Telle in the team photo but I'll go with the guy who I think I learn the most from based on volume of posts.

VOTE AUTUMN

[Lathum]

dola- it was 5-5-4 when I switch to BK, once NTN comes in and votes DV, I switch back to DV. Things were very much in question still at that point

[Lathum]

Vote Autumn

His vote last night seels it for me, I would also be open to voting Telle

[Barkeep49]

dola- it was 5-5-4 when I switch to BK, once NTN comes in and votes DV, I switch back to DV. Things were very much in question still at that point
Right. That was my point why I don't think I was at risk if you two had stayed. But I do 100% agree that you were eager to vote for DV. That confirms my general good impression of you rather than taking away from it.

[Barkeep49]

Since he's pinging other people with his crusade, and Narc who has been on a very similar wave length to me thinks I'm crazy voting for hoops, I'm going to go ahead switch to Autumn.

Unvote Hoops
Vote Autumn

[Narcizo]

Vote Autumn

His vote last night seels it for me, I would also be open to voting Telle

You have to bold it n00b!

[Narcizo]

Can we try and sort out the business with the fake hammer. I got no information about Mjolnir being fake. I'm betting Telle will say the same. Unless the wolves are given more information about the fake hammer when they receive it then Hoops handing it to Chubby means that I trust Hoops more. Now we know that the (presumably) real hammer is out there I don't see anything sinister in the fake hammer at all. I think it is probably the item that isn't listed at the start and it was supposed to act as a slight bonus for the wolves. I can imagine people voting others for being liars if someone said that they had the Hammer on day two.

Personally I think J23 was the night kill target for night two and night three. Blocked on night two and killed night three.

[JAG]

Day 4 Voting as of post 1401:

Autumn 2 - hoopsguy (1395), Barkeep49 (1399)
Barkeep49 1 - Autumn (1348)
Thomkal 1 - Narcizo (1349)
hoopsguy 1 - EagleFan (1374)


Day 5 deadline votes:
3 for Monday
0 for Sunday

Just an FYI the D5 deadlines votes don't have to be in official format.

[Narcizo]

Well, with (presumably) three votes out there on Autumn I'm happy enough leaving my vote where it is - don't want to pile on. I think mau and Bug deserve consideration as well.

[Barkeep49]

Can we try and sort out the business with the fake hammer. I got no information about Mjolnir being fake. I'm betting Telle will say the same. Unless the wolves are given more information about the fake hammer when they receive it then Hoops handing it to Chubby means that I trust Hoops more. Now we know that the (presumably) real hammer is out there I don't see anything sinister in the fake hammer at all. I think it is probably the item that isn't listed at the start and it was supposed to act as a slight bonus for the wolves. I can imagine people voting others for being liars if someone said that they had the Hammer on day two.

Personally I think J23 was the night kill target for night two and night three. Blocked on night two and killed night three.
Hmm. Because of telle letting the hammer be randomly distributed don't we have issues with tracking which hammer came from where? Can we source the fake hammer back to telle? Cause if so I think that's pretty damning.

[Lathum]

vote Autumn

[EagleFan]

Thank you. Waiting to see who would jump along with me.

unvote hoops

vote BK

[Barkeep49]

Thank you. Waiting to see who would jump along with me.

unvote hoops

vote BK
You realize I've already switched off him, yes? And part of the reason I looked his way that he was suggesting YOU might be a wolf...

[EagleFan]

You realize I've already switched off him, yes? And part of the reason I looked his way that he was suggesting YOU might be a wolf...

I've been suspicious of you since early in the game to be honest. Yes, you backed off your vote after it was called out. That's not exactly something to hang one's hat on.

[EagleFan]

dola: And he said I may be a wolf on day one. Not since then? Someone always calls me a wolf on day one but that doesn't always make that person a wolf. :)

[EagleFan]

Finishing up lunch, will check back in later tonight. Not sure exactly when but probably not until after 8. Taking the daughter to the pool tonight.

[Telle]

I agree that we should put a little effort into tracking down the two hammers. Did they both exist from the beginning? With there being two hammers, I honestly don't know if the one Narcizo received and passed is the one I originally had or not.

[Barkeep49]

dola: And he said I may be a wolf on day one. Not since then? Someone always calls me a wolf on day one but that doesn't always make that person a wolf. :)
Actually he implies you've been converted in the same post I voted in. And just to be clear you think I'm a wolf despite having been strongly anti-Danny and the second vote on DV, and a vote which I never really considered moving?

[Zinto]

I think I am going to throw down a vote on Thomkal. He has a not so great voting record and more often then not Narcizo provides good analysis regardless of being a wolf or a villager. I have not been able to get my head around the game thus far and I am probably going to spend sometime today at least rereading day one so this may be just a place holder vote.

Vote Thomkal

[hoopsguy]

Actually he implies you've been converted in the same post I voted in. And just to be clear you think I'm a wolf despite having been strongly anti-Danny and the second vote on DV, and a vote which I never really considered moving?

No, I'm just suggesting that until we have knowledge of there actually being a block (or wolves not submitting an action, I suppose) that the idea of conversation at the conclusion of Day 2 has to be considered.

If there was a conversion, it sure would make sense for EF and/or Chubby (probably in that order) to have been targets. But I also said that I don't think we need to go down that path just yet. For now, I'm happy to let our roled players give us information about block/no-block when they see fit.

[jeheinz72]

Thomkal has been hittin the radar for me for awhile now, so I'll add to that one. Of course so has Autumn, but I don't see the benefit to doing that. Additionally, I've been trusting of (and yes, I know, following) Narcizo for awhile now. Ergo

Vote Thomkal

[Narcizo]

I'd just like to say something about the way everyone seems to bandy around the fact that they're vanilla villagers nilly-willy. Can we cut that out please. Don't think it particularly matters at the moment because the major roles have gone but otherwise aren't you just helping the wolves find the roles? I realise that it's part of the culture to lie about it even if you have a role but I don't like the way people come out saying they're vanilla after a couple of votes have been thrown at them.

[Narcizo]

Stop blaming me for voting Thomkal. It makes me very jittery.

[hoopsguy]

Narcizo, it sounds like you are sliding into an elevated WW paranoia level just in time for the weekend.

Deep breaths, it will be OK. You can do this. This isn't the chess game.

[Narcizo]

Also I think we have a lot to gain if anyone who has had any dealings with the "other" hammer comes out and says so. I've just thought of something. What if it was Darth who had the "real" hammer and when he was lynched it wound up with Racer? So my initial idea of the wolves creating a fake hammer and keeping hold onto the real hammer could hold true.

[Narcizo]

Which would lead me back to being suspicious of Telle.

[hoopsguy]

JAG, does the person that get lynched see their item assigned randomly? Or do they have any opportunity to pass items prior to the lynch?

I think I know the answer to this, but figured it was worth asking.

[hoopsguy]

I'm kind of skeptical of there having been another hammer earlier - just seems like we would have had some conflict around the lines of "what do you mean you passed the hammer to Player X? I had the hammer and passed it to Player Y!" We've had a couple of days for that to happen but I can't recall any conflict like that.

[Narcizo]

I've looked back and there's no mention of an unlisted item - I got it mixed up with the unlisted role.

Hoops, if the wolves have been holding onto the hammer then that conflict wouldn't have occured.

[Narcizo]

Telle is the only one to have mentioned having the hammer until now so I'm not sure that there would have been a conflict. Dunno really.

[hoopsguy]

I've looked back and there's no mention of an unlisted item - I got it mixed up with the unlisted role.

Hoops, if the wolves have been holding onto the hammer then that conflict wouldn't have occured.

Agreed, that could have taken place. And there was no real reason, that I can see, for them to have been worried about what DV might have been holding based on previous day.

Of course, if he did have that kind of item then they would likely have had a little more incentive to try and keep DV alive yesterday. Making it more reckless for us to vote on the people early to the DV party ...

Do you consider it more likely that the item came into the game after the "fake" disappeared or that the wolves started with it and have kept it close?

Finally, do you (Narc) or anyone have records of people claiming items throughout the first few days? If we think the wolves are keeping a tight lid on their items, then maybe publicly declaring items becomes a small data point for trust. Certainly not a substantial one, but perhaps a tie-breaker for close calls.

[JAG]

JAG, does the person that get lynched see their item assigned randomly? Or do they have any opportunity to pass items prior to the lynch?

I think I know the answer to this, but figured it was worth asking.

This circumstance would be covered under Item Rule 3.:

3. If you have an item and either you or the target you pass the item to is killed, or you fail to inform me to whom you're passing the item, the item will be distributed randomly.

[jeheinz72]

Stop blaming me for voting Thomkal. It makes me very jittery.

Oh, didn't mean to blame. I take full responsibility for my own votes :)

[jeheinz72]

I'd just like to say something about the way everyone seems to bandy around the fact that they're vanilla villagers nilly-willy. Can we cut that out please. Don't think it particularly matters at the moment because the major roles have gone but otherwise aren't you just helping the wolves find the roles? I realise that it's part of the culture to lie about it even if you have a role but I don't like the way people come out saying they're vanilla after a couple of votes have been thrown at them.

Doesn't it basically behoove all 3 classes of people (VV's, Roled V's and Wolves) to claim vanilla, unless it's an actual/fake reveal situation?

I guess what I'm saying is, I can say I'm a vanilla villager until i'm blue in the face, but no one is going to buy that beyond the status quo, be they wolves or villager.

Ultimately, ones' play is going to be the sway of opinion

[hoopsguy]

Working on a research post, trying to accumulate a bunch of info in one place. Hopefully people can help fill in the blanks over the weekend after it is up. Will be keeping up with game while compiling, but probably not actively brainstorming in the thread.

[Barkeep49]

Doesn't it basically behoove all 3 classes of people (VV's, Roled V's and Wolves) to claim vanilla, unless it's an actual/fake reveal situation?

I guess what I'm saying is, I can say I'm a vanilla villager until i'm blue in the face, but no one is going to buy that beyond the status quo, be they wolves or villager.

Ultimately, ones' play is going to be the sway of opinion
I agree with this. To me it's all in the game, even when you throw it out there regarding whether you're going to be lynched or not.

[JAG]

Day 4 Voting as of post 1430:

Autumn 3 - hoopsguy (1395), Barkeep49 (1399), Lathum (1405)
Thomkal 3 - Narcizo (1349), Zinto (1413), jeheinz72 (1415)
Barkeep49 2 - Autumn (1348), EagleFan (1406)


Day 5 deadline votes:
3 for Monday
0 for Sunday

Just an FYI the D5 deadlines votes don't have to be in official format.

[jeheinz72]

Almost forgot - Monday deadline please.

[hoopsguy]

Items questions:
1.) Has anyone admitted to having the mistletoe today? It would have moved randomly when J23 was night-killed. I'm hoping that someone will admit to having it. Silence suggests that the wolves got it and can now "weaponize" it.
2.) Does anyone want to admit to having possessed Freyr's Magic Sword before today? I'm curious how it would have made its way to me, as I've had people admit to passing the first two items I obtained.

[Thomkal]

planned activites cancelled due to storms in the area. Catching up now.

[Thomkal]

I don't think that's really true Barkeep. I think Lathum spent most of the day with his vote on Darth. It was only when Darth seemed to be losing momentum that he shifted to you. And the votes on you only really started to fizzle out when he moved his vote back to Darth.

God, if Lathum turns out to be a wolf I'm going to be so pissed off.

I won't after finding that stuff on him. :D

[Thomkal]

Day 4 Voting as of post 1401:

Autumn 2 - hoopsguy (1395), Barkeep49 (1399)
Barkeep49 1 - Autumn (1348)
Thomkal 1 - Narcizo (1349)
hoopsguy 1 - EagleFan (1374)


Day 5 deadline votes:
3 for Monday
0 for Sunday

Just an FYI the D5 deadlines votes don't have to be in official format.


I voted Sunday, and not bold so maybe they should be in bold since you missed it :)

[Lathum]

Looks like the deadline will be Monday, but I am ok with either day. I leave for vacation tonight so I will be around regardless.

[Narcizo]

Items questions:
1.) Has anyone admitted to having the mistletoe today? It would have moved randomly when J23 was night-killed. I'm hoping that someone will admit to having it. Silence suggests that the wolves got it and can now "weaponize" it.
2.) Does anyone want to admit to having possessed Freyr's Magic Sword before today? I'm curious how it would have made its way to me, as I've had people admit to passing the first two items I obtained.

1) Bug said that he received it 1314. Thinking about this, given that it could have wound up with anyone and we wouldn't know if it landed with a wolf I think this gives me decent trust for Bug.

2) I'm starting to think that we should take stock of all item movement up to day two or three at least. I can imagine that there might be some drawbacks to this but I'm curious about how the real hammer seemed to drop out of nowhere into Racer's hands. (Not implying suspicion of Racer here). The longer we go on the more people are going to die and the less full information we're going to be able to colate.

[Narcizo]

I started the game with Odin's Spear. I handed it to J23. I think chances are it disappeared once Dubb was killed but I don't know.

Start of day two I got the (fake) Hammer. I passed the hammer to Hoops.

[Barkeep49]

1) Bug said that he received it 1314. Thinking about this, given that it could have wound up with anyone and we wouldn't know if it landed with a wolf I think this gives me decent trust for Bug.

2) I'm starting to think that we should take stock of all item movement up to day two or three at least. I can imagine that there might be some drawbacks to this but I'm curious about how the real hammer seemed to drop out of nowhere into Racer's hands. (Not implying suspicion of Racer here). The longer we go on the more people are going to die and the less full information we're going to be able to colate.
I agree. I've had a very hard time getting a grasp on items this game but they seem really important and being able to track them equally important.

[Racer]

Looking at the vote history, Thomkol's looks pretty awful (maybe to awful). I know I was gun ho yesterday about knocking out Barkeep, but his doesn't look that bad. Autumn's doesn't look to good either, but not quite as bad as Thomkol. Therefore,

Vote Thomkol
Vote Sunday deadline

I'll look at things some more later.

[Barkeep49]

I voted Monday deadline but I'm fine with a Sunday deadline. So perhaps I shouldn't have voted at all :)

[Narcizo]

Wish I could hang around to see where some of the other people on my suspect list are voting. There seems to have been a big run on Thomkal, which makes me antsy, even if it is people I have some trust for. I'm hoping we don't get a two-horse race too early.

[JAG]

I voted Sunday, and not bold so maybe they should be in bold since you missed it :)

Heh, alright, I'll go back and take a better look to be sure I didn't miss anything else. Thanks for the heads up.

[Narcizo]

I've been getting a weird vibe off of mau - I don't think I've seen him address anyone so much as he's been talking to me. I'm wondering if the whole hammer thing was to set me up and mau has been laying the groundwork for that. I have a tough time getting a read on Telle because I don't think I've been in a game with her as a wolf. The whole hammer thing has me considering switching to her to get her involved in the voting. Thomkal's votes has legs so it's not like I'd be pulling the rug out from that candidate.

[Narcizo]

I nearly voted Telle but, perversely, the fact that she didn't vote Danny day two makes me a bit less willing to pull the trigger on that. If it turns out no-one has seen the hammer before Racer then I think we have to look at her again.

[Thomkal]

Can we try and sort out the business with the fake hammer. I got no information about Mjolnir being fake. I'm betting Telle will say the same. Unless the wolves are given more information about the fake hammer when they receive it then Hoops handing it to Chubby means that I trust Hoops more. Now we know that the (presumably) real hammer is out there I don't see anything sinister in the fake hammer at all. I think it is probably the item that isn't listed at the start and it was supposed to act as a slight bonus for the wolves. I can imagine people voting others for being liars if someone said that they had the Hammer on day two.

Personally I think J23 was the night kill target for night two and night three. Blocked on night two and killed night three.

I think I'm in agreement with you there Narcizo. I was going over your vote counts from each day, and I was reminded of two votes for J23 that I thought were mildly suspicious at the time and maybe more so given what we now know about J23 and Chubby. Would you look back to what Racer and Zinto said when they voted him on day 2, and see how you feel about their votes and comments then based on our knowledge now? I'm not exactly trusting my deductive reasoning skills right now and don't want to put attention on something I very well might be wrong about and take away focus from finding wolves.

[Thomkal]

and I come back to find the two people I mentioned in the post to be voting for me now. Maybe I'm feeling better about my thoughts on them. :)

[hoopsguy]

Thomkal, build the case. The two you mention have been people I've spent a fair amount of time looking at in my little "research project" this afternoon. Lets see how the conclusions match up for you, me, Narcizo, and whoever else feels like taking a stab at this.

[jeheinz72]

FWIW, both those two have pinged my radar at some point too. I was voting Racer early in the game. Zinto has just made some off comments/votes

I held back because well, we don't need me tossing out some crazy idea

[Barkeep49]

FWIW, both those two have pinged my radar at some point too. I was voting Racer early in the game. Zinto has just made some off comments/votes

I held back because well, we don't need me tossing out some crazy idea
No crazy ideas... no ketchup porn... man.

[JAG]

Day 4 Voting as of post 1451:

Thomkal 4 - Narcizo (1349), Zinto (1413), jeheinz72 (1415), Racer (1441)
Autumn 3 - hoopsguy (1395), Barkeep49 (1399), Lathum (1405)
Barkeep49 2 - Autumn (1348), EagleFan (1406)


Day 5 deadline votes:
Monday 4 - MrBug708, hoopsguy, Narcizo, jeheinz72,
Sunday 2 - Thomkal, Racer

[Thomkal]

Okay hoops here goes:

I noticed on Day 2 that both Racer and Zinto voted for J23 on Day 2 within about 20 mins of each other, both claiming they were voting for him as Eaglefan voters from day one and with Racer he was testing Chubby's then supposed connection to J23. Zinto also said he voted for J23 because he didn't want to spread the vote out too much. He also said he felt Chubby was likely a villager. I thought those were strange votes at the time since in Racer's case, shouldn't he have been votiing Chubby at that point not J23 since there was a theory out there that J23 might be a villager that Chubby (as a wolf) chose to use as his "connection".

Zinto's comment about thinking Chubby was probably a villager was the one that really stood out for me-why is he voting J23 if he thinks Chubby is a villager? It looks like it could have been an attempt by the wolves to capitialize on the confusion over Chubby's then mysterious connection to J23. That would have been a dangerous tactic if they had succeeded in getting J23 lynched. So perhaps it was a wolf in Zinto jumping on Racer's vote?

[jeheinz72]

No crazy ideas... no ketchup porn... man.

Ha, I rocked the Ketchup porn once, didn't want to get too heavy handed

As far as the crazy ideas, well I feel a bit like a ship without a sail here, so I don't want to go off on crazy tangents or my usual uncertain certainties

[hoopsguy]

OK, running out of time on this for today but will try to pick it up Sunday night.

The Living:

Autumn
- Votes: D1 EagleFan 3rd vote, making totals 3-2-2 EF over Lathum/Chubby. D2 Danny, both pre-reveal and post-reveal to make it 4-3 Chubby over Danny. Had vote on Heinz (3 votes) in middle. D3 Ended on Lathum, 7th vote (8-7 DV > Lathum). Was on DV multiple times throughout the day, but moved off him.
- Items:
- Posts:

Barkeep
- Votes: D1 EagleFan 1st vote. D2 starts (pre-reveal) and ends on Danny, with move in between to Chubby. D3 DV early, making margin 4-2 Lathum > DV/BK.
- Items:
- Posts:

Chubby (revealed as Thor)
- Votes: D1 ended on EagleFan, but self-preservation. Had been on Lathum for most of afternoon. D2 votes Danny after his semi-reveal. D3 was on Lathum all day, switched at very end to DV to post 10-6 margin.
- Items: received Gleipnir D1 -> D2, receives fake hammer D3 -> D4
- Posts: #694 semi-reveals as Thor

EagleFan (revealed as Balder)
- Votes: D1 ended on Danny. D2 ended on Danny 10th vote, 5 before deadline. D3 Lathum.
- Items:
- Posts:

Heinz
- Votes: D1 Danny, put vote at 3-3-3-3 Danny/EF/Chubby/Lathum. D2 NTN, moving off Chubby after semi-reveal post. Moved margin to 4-2 Chubby over NTN. Earlier had pushed Chubby up to 5 votes right before semi-reveal. D3 NTN early.
- Items:
- Posts:

Hoopsguy (known good, hero of this epic tale)
- Votes: D1 EF 2nd vote, pushing him to lead over 5 others. D2 Danny vote, putting Danny up 6-5 over Chubby. D3 DV vote, put DV up 7-5 with 18 minutes to go.
- Items: passed mistletoe to J23 D2 -> D3, passed (fake) hammer to Chubby D3 -> D4, received sword D3 -> D4
- Posts:

Lathum
- Votes: D1 ended on Chubby with 47 minutes to go, earlier vote on EF put EF up 6-4-4 over him+Danny. D2 ended on Danny as 8th vote (8-4) after being on Chubby all day. D3 ended on DV and moved vote to 6-4-4 DV > Lathum/BK.
- Items: passed item to Chubby D1 -> D2
- Posts:
mauboy
- Votes: D1 Chubby, put vote at 5-4-4-4 over EF/Chubby/Lathum. D2 Danny, ties 5-5 with Chubby. D3 Barkeep, pushing vote to 6-5-4 DV>BK>Lathum.
- Items:
- Posts:

mckerney
- Votes: D1 NTN. D2 was on Chubby, casting 5th vote and no one else had more than 2. D3 vote for DV was 3rd vote, making margin 5-3 and pushing DV ahead of BK.
- Items:
- Posts:

MrBug
- Votes: D1 Zinto early, never moved. D2 Danny 12th vote, 2 minutes before deadline. D3 Lathum, pushing him to 4-2-2 lead.
- Items: passed mistletoe D1 -> D2
- Posts:

Narcizo
- Votes: D1 Lathum early. D2 mauboy early. D3 1st vote on DV.
- Items: passed Odin's Spear to J23 D1 -> D2, passed (fake?) hammer to Hoops D2 -> D3
- Posts:

NTN
- Votes: D1 Danny, 1st vote. D2 votes Chubby, making it 5-3 over Danny. D3 Lathum, making it 3-2-2 over BK/DV.
- Items:
- Posts:

Racer
- Votes: D1 unvoted EF to vote Danny with 35 minutes to go, putting total at 5-5. Awfully good vote in hindsight. Earlier vote on EF had pushed him into lead ahead of Danny/Lathum/Chubby. D2 ended on Danny, 9th vote made score 9-4 with 5 minutes to go. Earlier on Chubby, putting vote at 6-6 tie with Danny and later switched to NTN as 3rd candidate making vote 7-6-4 Danny over Chubby over NTN. D3 had vote move between BK/DV twice, ending as 8th vote on DV (8-6) with 16 minutes to go.
- Items:
- Posts:

Telle
- Votes: D1 Danny 2nd vote, made totals 3-3-3-2. D2 NTN vote (3rd), made total 7-5-3 Danny/Chubby/NTN. D3 votes Lathum to close margin to 7-6 with 17 minutes to go.
- Items: passed (fake?) hammer to Narcizo D1 -> D2
- Posts:

Thomkal
- Votes: D1 on Lathum made total 4-4-3-3 EF/Lathum over Danny/Chubby. D2 Danny 11th vote, 2 minutes before deadline. D3 votes Lathum, 2-2-2 tie with DV/BK.
- Items:
- Posts:

Zinto
- Votes: D1 ended as last vote on Danny 12 minutes before deadline, pushing him ahead 7-5 over EF. Was on Lathum earlier. D2 moved vote to Danny after semi-reveal, 4th vote making margin 5-4 Chubby > Danny. D3 NTN early, putting 2nd vote down (Lathum 4, DV/BK/NTN 2). Later moved to BK, before ending on DV with 9th vote (9-7) and 8 minutes to go.
- Items:
- Posts:


Hall of Heroes:

Bhlloy
- Votes: D1 Chubby, D2 Chubby
- Items:
- Posts:

Dubb
- Votes: D1 Danny
- Items:
- Posts:

J23
- Votes: D1 EagleFan, D2 Danny, D3 DV
- Items: received mistletoe D2 -> D3
- Posts:

Foul Villains:
Danny
- Votes: D1 cast votes for EF/Chubby. D2 cast votes for Heinz early, Chubby late.
- Items:
- Posts:

Darth Vilus
- Votes: D1 Chubby, D2 Chubby, D3 Lathum, Barkeep, Lathum.
- Items:
- Posts:

[Danny]

OK, running out of time on this for today but will try to pick it up Sunday night.

The Living:

Autumn
- Votes: D1 EagleFan 3rd vote, making totals 3-2-2 EF over Lathum/Chubby. D2 Danny, both pre-reveal and post-reveal to make it 4-3 Chubby over Danny. Had vote on Heinz (3 votes) in middle. D3 Ended on Lathum, 7th vote (8-7 DV > Lathum). Was on DV multiple times throughout the day, but moved off him.
- Items:
- Posts:

Barkeep
- Votes: D1 EagleFan 1st vote. D2 starts (pre-reveal) and ends on Danny, with move in between to Chubby. D3 DV early, making margin 4-2 Lathum > DV/BK.
- Items:
- Posts:

Chubby (revealed as Thor)
- Votes: D1 ended on EagleFan, but self-preservation. Had been on Lathum for most of afternoon. D2 votes Danny after his semi-reveal. D3 was on Lathum all day, switched at very end to DV to post 10-6 margin.
- Items: received Gleipnir D1 -> D2, receives fake hammer D3 -> D4
- Posts: #694 semi-reveals as Thor

EagleFan (revealed as Balder)
- Votes: D1 ended on Danny. D2 ended on Danny 10th vote, 5 before deadline. D3 Lathum.
- Items:
- Posts:

Heinz
- Votes: D1 Danny, put vote at 3-3-3-3 Danny/EF/Chubby/Lathum. D2 NTN, moving off Chubby after semi-reveal post. Moved margin to 4-2 Chubby over NTN. Earlier had pushed Chubby up to 5 votes right before semi-reveal. D3 NTN early.
- Items:
- Posts:

Hoopsguy (known good, hero of this epic tale)
- Votes: D1 EF 2nd vote, pushing him to lead over 5 others. D2 Danny vote, putting Danny up 6-5 over Chubby. D3 DV vote, put DV up 7-5 with 18 minutes to go.
- Items: passed mistletoe to J23 D2 -> D3, passed (fake) hammer to Chubby D3 -> D4, received sword D3 -> D4
- Posts:

Lathum
- Votes: D1 ended on Chubby with 47 minutes to go, earlier vote on EF put EF up 6-4-4 over him+Danny. D2 ended on Danny as 8th vote (8-4) after being on Chubby all day. D3 ended on DV and moved vote to 6-4-4 DV > Lathum/BK.
- Items: passed item to Chubby D1 -> D2
- Posts:
mauboy
- Votes: D1 Chubby, put vote at 5-4-4-4 over EF/Chubby/Lathum. D2 Danny, ties 5-5 with Chubby. D3 Barkeep, pushing vote to 6-5-4 DV>BK>Lathum.
- Items:
- Posts:

mckerney
- Votes: D1 NTN. D2 was on Chubby, casting 5th vote and no one else had more than 2. D3 vote for DV was 3rd vote, making margin 5-3 and pushing DV ahead of BK.
- Items:
- Posts:

MrBug
- Votes: D1 Zinto early, never moved. D2 Danny 12th vote, 2 minutes before deadline. D3 Lathum, pushing him to 4-2-2 lead.
- Items: passed mistletoe D1 -> D2
- Posts:

Narcizo
- Votes: D1 Lathum early. D2 mauboy early. D3 1st vote on DV.
- Items: passed Odin's Spear to J23 D1 -> D2, passed (fake?) hammer to Hoops D2 -> D3
- Posts:

NTN
- Votes: D1 Danny, 1st vote. D2 votes Chubby, making it 5-3 over Danny. D3 Lathum, making it 3-2-2 over BK/DV.
- Items:
- Posts:

Racer
- Votes: D1 unvoted EF to vote Danny with 35 minutes to go, putting total at 5-5. Awfully good vote in hindsight. Earlier vote on EF had pushed him into lead ahead of Danny/Lathum/Chubby. D2 ended on Danny, 9th vote made score 9-4 with 5 minutes to go. Earlier on Chubby, putting vote at 6-6 tie with Danny and later switched to NTN as 3rd candidate making vote 7-6-4 Danny over Chubby over NTN. D3 had vote move between BK/DV twice, ending as 8th vote on DV (8-6) with 16 minutes to go.
- Items:
- Posts:

Telle
- Votes: D1 Danny 2nd vote, made totals 3-3-3-2. D2 NTN vote (3rd), made total 7-5-3 Danny/Chubby/NTN. D3 votes Lathum to close margin to 7-6 with 17 minutes to go.
- Items: passed (fake?) hammer to Narcizo D1 -> D2
- Posts:

Thomkal
- Votes: D1 on Lathum made total 4-4-3-3 EF/Lathum over Danny/Chubby. D2 Danny 11th vote, 2 minutes before deadline. D3 votes Lathum, 2-2-2 tie with DV/BK.
- Items:
- Posts:

Zinto
- Votes: D1 ended as last vote on Danny 12 minutes before deadline, pushing him ahead 7-5 over EF. Was on Lathum earlier. D2 moved vote to Danny after semi-reveal, 4th vote making margin 5-4 Chubby > Danny. D3 NTN early, putting 2nd vote down (Lathum 4, DV/BK/NTN 2). Later moved to BK, before ending on DV with 9th vote (9-7) and 8 minutes to go.
- Items:
- Posts:


Hall of Heroes:

Bhlloy
- Votes: D1 Chubby, D2 Chubby
- Items:
- Posts:

Dubb
- Votes: D1 Danny
- Items:
- Posts:

J23
- Votes: D1 EagleFan, D2 Danny, D3 DV
- Items: received mistletoe D2 -> D3
- Posts:

The Most Awesome Guys Who Ever Existed:
Danny
- Votes: D1 cast votes for EF/Chubby. D2 cast votes for Heinz early, Chubby late.
- Items:
- Posts:

Darth Vilus
- Votes: D1 Chubby, D2 Chubby, D3 Lathum, Barkeep, Lathum.
- Items:
- Posts:

Good post!

[hoopsguy]

After spending a good amount of time analyzing the votes I really feel like the wolves really wanted to get Thor revealed on D2 and would call it a success at that point. Once that happened, they were going to stay far away from Chubby and get their votes on Danny ASAP.

Probably not all of them, but they didn't want to overplay their hand at that point. The thinking was probably, "hey, if we have to trade Danny for the bodyguard and there is no seer we're sitting pretty". Of course, Thor clearing another player (J23) probably didn't help their cause much at all, but they were still in an enviable position going into Day 3.

[Thomkal]

wow nice job there Hoops!

[Zinto]

Okay hoops here goes:

I noticed on Day 2 that both Racer and Zinto voted for J23 on Day 2 within about 20 mins of each other, both claiming they were voting for him as Eaglefan voters from day one and with Racer he was testing Chubby's then supposed connection to J23. Zinto also said he voted for J23 because he didn't want to spread the vote out too much. He also said he felt Chubby was likely a villager. I thought those were strange votes at the time since in Racer's case, shouldn't he have been votiing Chubby at that point not J23 since there was a theory out there that J23 might be a villager that Chubby (as a wolf) chose to use as his "connection".

Zinto's comment about thinking Chubby was probably a villager was the one that really stood out for me-why is he voting J23 if he thinks Chubby is a villager? It looks like it could have been an attempt by the wolves to capitialize on the confusion over Chubby's then mysterious connection to J23. That would have been a dangerous tactic if they had succeeded in getting J23 lynched. So perhaps it was a wolf in Zinto jumping on Racer's vote?


If I remember correctly Chubby had not come out and said anything so far that day. I also remember someone said that Chubby probably thought J23 was a villager based on where he placed his vote on day one which is what I thought based on the information I had.

[mauchow]

I have had a long ass day at work. I keep pulling up the thread only to never read anything. I am going to catch up now.

[Thomkal]

If I remember correctly Chubby had not come out and said anything so far that day. I also remember someone said that Chubby probably thought J23 was a villager based on where he placed his vote on day one which is what I thought based on the information I had.

That would be incorrect he came out with the info about J23 on day 1 right at the deadline because he thought he might be killed by the wolves I'm guessing and wanted to get it out. That was post #347. The votes from you and Racer in question here came the next day posts somewhere in the #600's. Chubby's connection to J23 was talked about all the next day after that comment he made.

[ntndeacon]

monday deadline

[ntndeacon]

this is more a vote about the people voting than the votees themselves.
Vote Autumn

[Darth Vilus]

Foul Villains:
Danny
- Votes: D1 cast votes for EF/Chubby. D2 cast votes for Heinz early, Chubby late.
- Items:
- Posts:

Darth Vilus
- Votes: D1 Chubby, D2 Chubby, D3 Lathum, Barkeep, Lathum.
- Items:
- Posts:

Foul Villains should read The True Rulers of Asgard

[mauchow]

Holy awesome analysis hoops. Quick question for you....

Can you send me the sword tonight? :)

[Zinto]

That would be incorrect he came out with the info about J23 on day 1 right at the deadline because he thought he might be killed by the wolves I'm guessing and wanted to get it out. That was post #347. The votes from you and Racer in question here came the next day posts somewhere in the #600's. Chubby's connection to J23 was talked about all the next day after that comment he made.


Not that day. I am talking about when there was discussion on why Chubby said J23 was not a wolf on day two. Chubby did not comment on anything so far that day and I figured he meant something about where J23 voted. Also Chubby did not say J23 was a villager because he thought he was going to be night killed he did so because he thought he was going to be duked.

[Darth Vilus]

I can't believe you guys killed me...

Or tried to kill me i should say :devil:

[MrBug708]

Good job Hoops

No idea who to vote for...again

[jeheinz72]

Well I'm outta here, staying where I'm at

[mauchow]

I am finishing up with work. I will try to be around more than last night but wife is working again and got a baby to deal with.

As far as this vote goes I'm open to switching but for now I'm going autumn.. of the top two today I like autumn a little more than thomkal. Then for BK I've turned a corner on as a little bit more of a villager lean.. not really getting a whole heckuva lot of vibes from any of them to be honest. What do people think about zinto? His votes read poorly to me. Always late to the action as far as switches go. I dunno. I don't want to introduce a fourth candidate this late .. and on a Friday no less.

So as I said before I'm going vote autumn and am open to moving.

[mauchow]

vote autumn

So its not in middle of a paragraph.

[Chubby]

In car on way to pickup my son at grandmas.

Will post more when home

[Chubby]

In car on way to pickup my son at grandmas.

Will post more when home

[MrBug708]

Any ideas on what I should do with the missletoe?

[Barkeep49]

Any ideas on where Chubby is and when he will post more?

[Chubby]

Any ideas on where Chubby is and when he will post more?

Almost home, 5 minutes? With have my vote and reasons

[ntndeacon]

I don't know BK, but I hope we hear from Chubby soon!

[Chubby]

No time to analyse now.

Thor's Hammer turning out to be an illusion makes me suspicious of Hoops or Telle I must say. I'm sure it makes them suspicious of me as well. Presuming no-one else comes out and says that they have had Thor's Hammer (which is absolutely in the game, according to the rules) then it seems the wolves have taken it and created an illusion of it to create the chain. From what I can tell:
Telle -> Narcizo -> Hoops -> Chubby

can we make chains like this for the other items, even if we have ??? in some spots? that'd rule

[Barkeep49]

Almost home, 5 minutes? With have my vote and reasons
Was just joking with that post :)

[Chubby]

I liked where the discussion was going earlier today with talk of the items and their origin, i think that's the key right now personally.

the hammer we know where it was turns out to be an illusion. Racer shows up with a hammer now too. The most logical explanation to me is:

Loki made an illusion of the hammer to pass around while passing the real hammer between fellow wolves. Darth had the real hammer yesterday when he was lynched making it get randomed onto Racer. Hoops passed me the fake hammer last night causing it to turn to dust as soon as I touched it. I think it was luck that i got the fake hammer at the same time the holder of the real hammer got lynched.

That leads me to say: who made the fake hammer i.e. who is Loki? I highly doubt that hoops would have passed me the fake hammer with DV posibbly being lynched with the real hammer. There's also his point about the mistletoe so I don't think it was him. That leaves Telle and Narc. Narc has been more helpful than Telle so far and I find it plausible that Loki started with my hammer to allow the creation of the fake.

[v]Vote telle[/b]

This is the only scenario I can come up with that is not a long shot. I think the choices are telle and narc and that telle is far more likely to be a wolf based on having the hammer 1st and claiming to have passed it randomly. I believe they were trying to get me to reveal by having her say she had the hammer not knowing how the next few days would play out. It's possible she is another wolf and not Loki and that Loki (someone else) passed it to narc. This scenario still means Telle would be a wolf. If telle is a villager then I'd have to look at narc tomorrow.

I would have to assume that any holes we have in the chain of custody for items would be wolves. I would not assume that hoops' sword is real and hope that if the corresponding character is in the game that they don't reveal themselves if the sword also turns to dust on them.

[Chubby]

ahhh no edits for me

vote telle

[mckerney]

Vote Autumn

No real strong feelings here and open to change, but it looks like he has the worst voting record of today's three candidates with the move to Lathum.

[Chubby]

After spending a good amount of time analyzing the votes I really feel like the wolves really wanted to get Thor revealed on D2 and would call it a success at that point. Once that happened, they were going to stay far away from Chubby and get their votes on Danny ASAP.

Probably not all of them, but they didn't want to overplay their hand at that point. The thinking was probably, "hey, if we have to trade Danny for the bodyguard and there is no seer we're sitting pretty". Of course, Thor clearing another player (J23) probably didn't help their cause much at all, but they were still in an enviable position going into Day 3.

I hope the wolves are making this same assumption.

[MrBug708]

I think this was stated before but I wonder if the wolves can pass items to each other?

[Chubby]

You're voting a villager.

J23 is a family member of mine, I'm pretty convinced he does not have knowledge of me. I put that out there because I feared being duked onto and not getting that info out there. There's 0 reason for me to clear J23 who some thought wasn't even playing last night if I was a wolf.

i'm not a seer and not a bg, that's all I'd like to say at this point about it.

lathum could certainly build trust with me if he said which item he passed me.

but for now, it's time to vote for who should have gotten lynched last night

unvote lathum
vote danny

(still getting caught up)

keep this in mind.

with that said, I think I get BG'd tonight anyways

[Chubby]

I think this was stated before but I wonder if the wolves can pass items to each other?

unknown. i theorized it was possible to have a restriction, but my gut now says that restriction doesn't exist

[Chubby]

Was just joking with that post :)

i know :)

[Chubby]

monday deadline for me too

[MrBug708]

unknown. i theorized it was possible to have a restriction, but my gut now says that restriction doesn't exist

If racer had the hammer and does pass it to u, it should stick despite the wolves possibly sending you another item as it will stick with u.

If the hammer does get to u, I would assume racer is good?

[Chubby]

Any ideas on what I should do with the missletoe?

pass it to a villager, not me tho. try to post after the deadline but before results who you sent it to.

racer - yes, I'd like my hammer please :D it sounds like you already have the order in but I do believe that is my real hammer.

[Chubby]

If racer had the hammer and does pass it to u, it should stick despite the wolves possibly sending you another item as it will stick with u.

Yes.


If the hammer does get to u, I would assume racer is good?

I would make that same assumption.

[Chubby]

I also don't think Racer would say he had the hammer if he was a wolf

[MrBug708]

If u don't get it racer is lynched tomorrow

[Chubby]

If u don't get it racer is lynched tomorrow

exactly.

I think this is the far safer avenue to explore today than trying to analyze voting patterns regardless of any suspicions I may or may not have of the other people with votes right now.

[MrBug708]

[B] vote telle[b]

I'll stick with you...I don't know if I have any better thoughts now...likely won't be around to post any changes later

[MrBug708]

vote telle

[MrBug708]

Chubby, whose your trust list or somewhat trust list if u don't mind sharing?

[Chubby]

EF. Racer if he passes my hammer :D

Other than that (which I think are obvious) I'd rather not give the wolves any other targets to pick from.

[Barkeep49]

I need to think if there are holes I but I think Chubby's case against Telle is pretty good.

[MrBug708]

I'm gonna send it to someone other than racer...likely hoop since he had it prior