WW CXXVI: Wolves in Asgard - Game Over (Result in Post 2538)

[hoopsguy]

vote thomkal

Don't like how Telle gained so much momentum towards the end..

No mention of Autumn - plays into my suspicions of Autumn + Mau both being wolves. I'm not going to go too far down the "grand unified theory of wolves" path, but I really want to see one or both of these guys on the block on Monday.

[hoopsguy]

Well deadline's here, and barring any wolfy shenanigans, I think I survived the lynch... so time to go enjoy that bottle of wine I've been thinking about all evening :)

Crap. So it was villager-villager.

Well somebody out there trusts me... who had the sword last??

The plethora of smiley posts, the immediate reveal of getting the sword ... just pure vibe here, but it felt like Telle was a villager rather than a (secretly) gloating wolf in this spot. Again, would be interested in getting feedback from those who were around at the time rather than me working through this 48 hours later.

[Chubby]

Looks like an afternoon/evening of multiple runs:
1.) Autumn first to 3 votes.
2.) Thomakl surges out to 4-3 lead with 3 straight votes (1413-1441)
3.) Autumn then closes with 3 votes to 6-4 lead (ending at 1482)
4.) Telle takes the lead, 6-5 over Autumn, with votes from a bunch of people I trust more than the other surges (ending with 1514)
5.) Autumn moves into "lets make a deal mode" with Telle, resulting in Thomkal surging into the lead and getting lynched.

I'm going to re-read this right now, but what made the late voters not named Telle and Autumn think this was such a good move?

I've long since had a ticket on this train. I think a telle-bug-autumn showdown for lynch would be a good idea.

Not trying to dictate or tell people how to vote per se but my $0.50 :D

[Chubby]

The plethora of smiley posts, the immediate reveal of getting the sword ... just pure vibe here, but it felt like Telle was a villager rather than a (secretly) gloating wolf in this spot. Again, would be interested in getting feedback from those who were around at the time rather than me working through this 48 hours later.

Why I'm voting her isn't so much of a "how she's playing" kinda thing, it's more of a "the most likely scenario" kinda thing combined with , now, the action that surrounded her last lynch.

[Autumn]

I'm not sure on Telle, but I suspect she's a villager, in which case I can definitively say that you can have a lot of vote movement even in a three villager runoff. I can understand why the village would assume that's not the case, which is unfortunate and proof of why this is a tough game to win, in general. I know I moved my vote around a lot, because I didn't have any real suspicion of either of my running mates. i think none of us were really suspicious of any of the others, which made for a lot of vote movement trying to decide how to get out of that situation.

I'm sure there won't be any real clarity until you guys lynch both Telle and I, so ti's probably just counter productive to argue all that much. Assuming we have no seer, no one's going to come to save me. I think anyone looking back through my posts will find as many things in my favor as a villager as against, just as I have with Telle. I feel like I was pivotal in getting Danny lynched at a point when he was likely to get away with another day, just the point where wolves would have backed off and seen if they could ride this one out.

As usual, those who do less scoot by easier in this game. So even if you're convinced it's gotta be me or Telle to vote out this day, start in putting some pressure on whoever's next, because you're going to need the evidence to catch another wolf, I don't expect that chasing the two of us is going to get you anywhere.

[hoopsguy]

I started with the sword and passed it to Chubby but it looks like it went the random route because Chubby was passed something else.

Out of curiosity, why Chubby at the end of Day 1? He didn't come out with his "I trust J23" thing until right at the deadline if memory serves me correctly. I'm sure there is the "why any player" on Day 1, but the elevated trust levels for Chubby (in my head, at least) started with Day 2.

[Barkeep49]

Looks like an afternoon/evening of multiple runs:
1.) Autumn first to 3 votes.
2.) Thomakl surges out to 4-3 lead with 3 straight votes (1413-1441)
3.) Autumn then closes with 3 votes to 6-4 lead (ending at 1482)
4.) Telle takes the lead, 6-5 over Autumn, with votes from a bunch of people I trust more than the other surges (ending with 1514)
5.) Autumn moves into "lets make a deal mode" with Telle, resulting in Thomkal surging into the lead and getting lynched.

I'm going to re-read this right now, but what made the late voters not named Telle and Autumn think this was such a good move?

I'd love to hear some responses to this question since it struck me as strange at the time.

[Barkeep49]

The plethora of smiley posts, the immediate reveal of getting the sword ... just pure vibe here, but it felt like Telle was a villager rather than a (secretly) gloating wolf in this spot. Again, would be interested in getting feedback from those who were around at the time rather than me working through this 48 hours later.
Now mind you that I was a Telle voter pretty solidly so I am/was a bit biased but I didn't get the same "feel" as you at the time. With further analysis I'm less convinced of Telle being bad than I was then, but since you asked that's my response.

[Barkeep49]

Do we have a vote count to start the day with?

[Narcizo]

Narcizo 1 - EagleFan 1692,
Telle 2 - Lathum 1706, Chubby 1717,
Zinto 1 - Autumn 1718

Is all I can find.

[Barkeep49]

Among the people who have been discussed I am inclined to vote for either Autumn or Zinto. Since I moved off Autumn more because I thought Telle was more guilty than Autumn was innocent

Vote Autumn

[mauchow]

No mention of Autumn - plays into my suspicions of Autumn + Mau both being wolves. I'm not going to go too far down the "grand unified theory of wolves" path, but I really want to see one or both of these guys on the block on Monday.

I unvoted Autumn at the time. He had lost all momentum at that time.

Did you miss my post before all that, too before you left? I had one directed towards you.

[mauchow]

I'd like to see zinto and narcizo up there today. With narcizo doing the bulk of the analysis and being ignored for the most part as a candidate I'd like to see what happens there. And then for zinto, his votes always seemed to have a too little too late feeling.

Narcizo not being able to be a part of the action towards the end of the day really hurts us to be able to get a good read on him.

[Barkeep49]

I'd like to see zinto and narcizo up there today. With narcizo doing the bulk of the analysis and being ignored for the most part as a candidate I'd like to see what happens there. And then for zinto, his votes always seemed to have a too little too late feeling.

Narcizo not being able to be a part of the action towards the end of the day really hurts us to be able to get a good read on him.
Just because a person hasn't attracted suspicion (obviously false else why would he have a vote on him already) isn't a good reason to see someone be a candidate. I agree the analysis Narc has provided has been good. I am disinclined to vote for him because his thinking has frequently matched my own not only in outcome but in reasoning which I take as a good sign. The only possible area of suspicion for him is that he touched the fake hammer and could have possibly executed a switch.

I will say that if you want to see someone receive attention a good way to make that happen is to vote for them...

[Barkeep49]

Just because a person hasn't attracted suspicion (obviously false else why would he have a vote on him already) isn't a good reason to see someone be a candidate.

To elaborate on this point I don't think it's good in any individual game (analysis is how villagers win) and I don't think it's good for the game in the long run to discourage people from putting ideas out there.

[mauchow]

Just because a person hasn't attracted suspicion (obviously false else why would he have a vote on him already) isn't a good reason to see someone be a candidate. I agree the analysis Narc has provided has been good. I am disinclined to vote for him because his thinking has frequently matched my own not only in outcome but in reasoning which I take as a good sign. The only possible area of suspicion for him is that he touched the fake hammer and could have possibly executed a switch.

I will say that if you want to see someone receive attention a good way to make that happen is to vote for them...

yeah, I planned on putting in a vote today before I go to work this time instead of waiting until the end. Then I'll just change it later if need be.

[mauchow]

Didn't even see the vote on Narcizo to be honest.

[mauchow]

vote zinto

I will try being around more today but my days are always unpredictable.

[Narcizo]

Whatever the story is with the hammer I think Autumn makes a good point. We don't know enough about the mechanics of the fake hammer to make any assumptions about it. Including the assumption that revealing possession of it is a sign of the player being more deserving trust. Yet that's an assumption he seems happier to make. But we don't know if the specifics of the fake hammer requires a wolf to claim possession of it. With that in mind I can't see past both Telle and Autumn being wolves and I wouldn't be surprised if mau was one as well. But for now I'll stick with Telle.

Vote Telle

Coming back to day three the players with the worst votes are Autumn, Bug and Telle. Bug has admitted to having the mistletoe twice when he didn't need to which is enough to get him some trust. Telle also laid votes on two players you wouldn't normally expect to get many votes on day one and I find it hard to believe that she voted Danny because he gave her a hard time about voting Autumn. Seems a bit convenient when we know that Danny is a wolf. Almost as though Danny was giving her an excuse to vote for him.

[Narcizo]

Narcizo not being able to be a part of the action towards the end of the day really hurts us to be able to get a good read on him.

Well, you're around now. Fire away.

[mauchow]

Well, you're around now. Fire away.

A read on when votes are changing and to see if you'd change your vote around, etc.

You've answered all my questions when I've asked them, that's not the problem. I need some in-game action in the bottom of the ninth from you to read you a little better. :)

[Narcizo]

Ok.
Day One - Vote to protect Danny. Don't think Chubby is a baddy either - probably wind up voting EagleFan
Day Two - Switch to Danny around the time Autumn tells everyone to get their vote on Danny or Chubby
Day Three - Keep my vote where it is. Oh yes!
Day Four - Switch to Telle. Honest.

[Narcizo]

I know it isn't the same thing. If you think it's frustrating when you're trying to get a read on me, imagine how it feels for me. Particularly in the Jungle Book game when my first two scans were pretty much redundant at the time I made them.

Looking back I don't actually think Zinto is such a bad choice after all. So I take back the stuff about Autumn tying himself in knots trying to protect Telle. I still think they're both big, fat wolves but I'm nothing like as sure as I was over the weekend.

[Narcizo]

Narcizo 1 - EagleFan 1692,
Telle 3 - Lathum 1706, Chubby 1717, Narcizo 1769
Zinto 2 - Autumn 1718, mauboy 1768
Autumn 1 - Barkeep 1761

[Narcizo]

Hmmm.. Do we actually know what going to Valhalla entails? And does Thomkal realise that he's gone there, whatever that means?

[Barkeep49]

Hmmm.. Do we actually know what going to Valhalla entails? And does Thomkal realise that he's gone there, whatever that means?
I don't think we do know, but I have a feeling people in Valhalla are still out of the game, but perhaps matter for some sort of final showdown which we don't how it is triggered.

[Autumn]

WE don't know anything about Valhalla. I would guess that there is a Ragnarok mechanic in the game. It sounded from the rules like there was a possibility that something (someone) could trigger ragnarok, in which case I would guess that the number of souls in Valhalla would be important for us in some way.

[Autumn]

So I take back the stuff about Autumn tying himself in knots trying to protect Telle. I still think they're both big, fat wolves but I'm nothing like as sure as I was over the weekend.

Doesn't this feel familiar.

[Autumn]

Among the people who have been discussed I am inclined to vote for either Autumn or Zinto. Since I moved off Autumn more because I thought Telle was more guilty than Autumn was innocent

Vote Autumn

So you feel better about Telle now than you did on Friday? Or worse about me and Zinto?

[EagleFan]

Out of curiosity, why Chubby at the end of Day 1? He didn't come out with his "I trust J23" thing until right at the deadline if memory serves me correctly. I'm sure there is the "why any player" on Day 1, but the elevated trust levels for Chubby (in my head, at least) started with Day 2.

I was getting a villager vibe from him. Though I was starting to wonder after the deadline passed if I made the right move. Nothing more than a hunch to be honest.

[Narcizo]

Doesn't this feel familiar.

I was wondering when you would break that out. :cool:

I thought Valhalla would enable us to post in the thread even when we're dead because I thought JAG was talking about that in some thread or other were people were discussing how to keep games active. Might have completely imagined the entire scenario though.

[EagleFan]

dola: One thing that is bugging me now (after thinking about my actions on day one) is the whole Telle "I let it go random" approach.

I made sure to have a request, even to the point of asking for a conditional to get the item passed to someone so I would prevent it from going random (figured that way we could have a trail of where items were).

Unfortunately it ended up going random based on the game mechanics.

As much as the whole "why would she say anything" question I am now being bugged by the "why random" question.

I still think signs point to villager because it would not seem to be a good play for a wolf to offer up this information.

[EagleFan]

unvote Narcizo

vote Zinto

No read on Z yet but wanting to keep it a race. Plus the Narc vote doesn;t seem to be getting legs (just afraid that he is playing the super helpful villager role as a wolf).

[Narcizo]

Doesn't this feel familiar.

Anyhoo, if we take away the trust you give Telle for revealing as having the hammer because, as you say, we know nothing about the mechanics of the fake hammer, does that alter your read of the game?

[Autumn]

Anyhoo, if we take away the trust you give Telle for revealing as having the hammer because, as you say, we know nothing about the mechanics of the fake hammer, does that alter your read of the game?

If we ignored the whole thing about the hammer, her votes don't look good. Mine don't either, so I guess I have less impetus to assume those are wolf votes since it's clear to me how a villager could do the same. She and I both voted Lathum over Darth. I gave my reasoning at the time, I don't remember what hers was. Friday she clearly was going to go with whichever direction could get her unlynched, which is what i would expect wolf or villager. I don't have the earlier votes with me right now.

I don't think she's a bad vote, based on record. Based on post contest I think she has some points in her favor, so I'd rather go for someone who has less in her favor.

[Autumn]

dola: One thing that is bugging me now (after thinking about my actions on day one) is the whole Telle "I let it go random" approach.

I made sure to have a request, even to the point of asking for a conditional to get the item passed to someone so I would prevent it from going random (figured that way we could have a trail of where items were).

Unfortunately it ended up going random based on the game mechanics.

As much as the whole "why would she say anything" question I am now being bugged by the "why random" question.

I still think signs point to villager because it would not seem to be a good play for a wolf to offer up this information.

I agree, at the time I was really suspicious that she would do that, it seemed a very odd move to send it random. But I'm not sure why a wolf would do that or claim to have one that.

[Autumn]

Anyhoo, if we take away the trust you give Telle for revealing as having the hammer because, as you say, we know nothing about the mechanics of the fake hammer, does that alter your read of the game?

That said, assuming that somehow she has to to say on day two that she passed an item randomly on night 1, as prerequisite for faking a hammer seems like quite a stretch. I can't go there, but I can agree that there might be some reason why it made sense for a wolf to do that which we don't understand, or it could just be a blunder as a wolf.

Frankly, if choosing between Telle and I, I would probably choose me. I have about the same voting record, I think, and don't have any item evidence to make me look good at all. I think I was out there on Danny, but that can be waved away as helping bury a dead wolf. I pushed Darth into the vote at times, but didn't end up voting him, so that negates that.

[Autumn]

My worry though, knowing that I'm good and suspecting Telle is good, is that we're going to waste several days with non-productive discussion. So I'm glad to see people addressing other candidates, even if you end up going with me. This would be a good time, if we're dealing with villager/villager, for wolves to fade into the woodwork and let other people hang themselves, so I think it's good to keep the pressure on people like Zinto, NTN, whoever else is being so quiet I'm forgetting about them.

[Barkeep49]

So you feel better about Telle now than you did on Friday? Or worse about me and Zinto?
Better about telle, the same about you, and worse about Zinto. I knew Telle's poor voting record, but I think the whole item thing makes her less likely, rather than more likely as I had previously, to be a wolf.

[Barkeep49]

My worry though, knowing that I'm good and suspecting Telle is good, is that we're going to waste several days with non-productive discussion. So I'm glad to see people addressing other candidates, even if you end up going with me. This would be a good time, if we're dealing with villager/villager, for wolves to fade into the woodwork and let other people hang themselves, so I think it's good to keep the pressure on people like Zinto, NTN, whoever else is being so quiet I'm forgetting about them.
Obvously I'd like to only kill wolves here on out, but just wanted to point out that we're in relatively good shape right now.

[Telle]

It's clearly stated that there is a role not listed in the rules in the game. Do you not think it likely that it would state the same thing about items?

Anyway, items we know have been in the game:

Thor's Hammer - Telle >> Narcizo >> Hoops >> Chubby (Fake) disappeared
Thor's Hammer - ?? >> ?? >> ?? (DV?) >> Racer >> Chubby

We don't know at which stage the Hammers were seperated, or if they existed from the very start.

Odin's Spear - Narcizo >> J23 disappeared?
Fenris Fetters - Lathum >> Chubby >> J23 disappeared?
Flaming Sword - ?? >> ?? >> ?? >> Hoops >> Telle
Mistletoe MrBug >> Hoops >> J23 >> MrBug >> Racer

I'm not exactly sure about the mistletoe but I think that's the path its followed. Can't help wondering who had the Sword up until Hoops got it.

Oh look, once again Narcizo states as fact that I passed him the hammer, when we don't at all know that.

Corrected:
Thor's Hammer - Telle >> ?? >> ?? >> ??
Thor's Hammer - ?? >> Narcizo >> Hoops >> Chubby (Fake) disappeared
Thor's Hammer - ?? >> ?? >> ?? (DV?) >> Racer >> Chubby

[Telle]

Nope, not a ton but as Racer noted there were other people to pick from and you don't need to use the comment "consolidating" as if to suggest Danny should be on the short list.

I'm still more focused on Telle than I was on Friday afternoon. I don't think this was a villager/villager/villager run-off with all that movement. But right now I think Autumn is the wolf, assuming there was only one.

I don't think Autumn sticks his neck out like that for me if he's a wolf. He'd just let me go down in flames while he fades to the background. I think it's way too risky of a move for a wolf to try to gain trust by showing trust of a villager in that way. And if we were both wolves, I think it's still rather risky for him, and the more likely play would be to pile on and thus gain trust for himself.

[Autumn]

Obvously I'd like to only kill wolves here on out, but just wanted to point out that we're in relatively good shape right now.

Oh, we're not in bad shape, true. But if we spend two days lynching villagers, in particular two days lynching villagers that the village is already decided about, taht's two days of very little useful vote history, possibly four villagers dead total, and no new leads on wolves at the end of it. That's what I worry about.

[Zinto]

This is his rationale for voting NTN, as well as later saying that he thought NTN's vote on Danny might have been a "trust grab."

Given that later in the day Zinto prefers Barkeep over DV and Lathum, this post seems quite interesting. He votes NTN since Barkeep seems a villager and then a few hours later Barkeep is more likely a wolf than Darth and Lathum.

Sounds like a wolf keeping the vote away from Darth to me.


I voted Barkeep in that situation because I did not have a read on Darth. While I thought Barkeep could be a villager I deferred to people who have played with him in more than one game. It wasn't the best move and voting Darth in hindsight was the best move.

[Barkeep49]

I voted Barkeep in that situation because I did not have a read on Darth. While I thought Barkeep could be a villager I deferred to people who have played with him in more than one game. It wasn't the best move and voting Darth in hindsight was the best move.
Beyond Lathum, who only did it for self-preservation, the people who voted for me were all people, yourself included, who've played a handful of games, many of which have come since I stopped playing regularly.

[Zinto]

Beyond Lathum, who only did it for self-preservation, the people who voted for me were all people, yourself included, who've played a handful of games, many of which have come since I stopped playing regularly.


I guess I made an assumption about that others would have played with you(most likely the dumbest thing I have done in a werewolf game):)

[Autumn]

What gets me, Zinto, isn't the vote, it's the flopping of the reasoning for your voting. Earlier you were voting NTN because you thought BK was a villager. Later you were voting BK because you thought he the most likely wolf. I'm not sure what would cause such a change other than the fact that it helped Darth out.

[Zinto]

I am not sure why I changed my mind or how far I had to go to change it. I think I thought that Barkeep had a better chance to be a villager then NTN. I am constantly talking myself in and out of candidates and I guess for now on I shouldn't make statements declaring someone a villager unless I am sure of it.

[Racer]

Haven't read hardly any of the posts today but I decided to look at every player in the game (with the exception of EagleFan and Chubby). I relied heavily on Narcizo's vote history which can be found on page 34.

Definitely Good
EagleFan – confirmed goodie

myself - :)

Almost Certainly Good
Chubby – I would hope someone would have come out by now if he wasn’t really Thor.

Leaning positive
McKerney
Negatives - Very quiet. 2nd to last in posts among alive players
-Had a throw away vote on day one.
Positives? - Would three wolves hide their votes on Chubby on day two? (He had four votes total)
-Kept DV in it on day two by narrowing the vote to 5-3 (Lathum over DV) early in the day.
-If Autumn is a wolf: Extended Autumn’s lead over Thomkal to 6-4 at 7:02 pm on day four.

Narcizo
Positives - Very helpful analysis putting the vote history thing together.
Cast a vote very early in the day on day three against Darth Vilus.
Negatives – Are there any, really?

Zinto
negatives - Throw away vote day one.
-Very quiet, 3rd least post among living players.
Positives - Reduced Chubby’s lead over Danny on day two to 5-4.
-Extended DV’s lead over Lathum at 9:52 on day three to 9-7 (basically the clinching vote)

Neutral
Hoops
Positives? -Has had multiple items including mistletoe. I think we should use caution on the mistletoe though as we don’t know the mechanics of it. Reading from the descriptions on the first page, it sounds like it needs to be weaponized. For all we know, the wolves have already weaponized it and are just holding onto it now.
Neutral- Hoops has been helpful lately but in the games I’ve played in I remember Hoops and Chief Rum as being two particularly strong players. I think we would appear helpful whether he was a wolf or not.
Negatives- Eaglefan voter on day one. Of the six voters, two confirmed villagers on EagleFan and one confirmed baddie. I think of Barkeep, Hoops, and Autumn, one is probably a wolf.

MrBug708 –
Positives - Has touched mistletoe twice. See Hoops though why we might not want to read to much into this.
Neutral - Didn’t vote for Autumn or Thomkal on day four. Gave Telle a 2nd vote when Autumn had 6 votes and Thomkal had four votes at the time.
Negatives - Throw away vote on day one
-Late to the action on day two
-Along with Telle and Autumn, did not vote for DV on two. Voted for Lathum instead.

Telle
Positives - As previously mentioned, Telle unvoted Autumn on day one and moved to Danny at 4:53 pm giving him two votes total (effectively keeping him in the race as EagleFan and Danny had three votes at the time). Also with one vote at the time were Thomkal, Zinto, ntndeacon, Lathum, and myself. That’s a lot of choices to give a second vote two and she chose a wolf.
Neutral - Voted for Thomkal on day two but more of a self-defense vote then anything else.
Negatives - As someone else pointed out, the whole thing with Danny on day one seems like it may have been contrived. Danny seemed like he was scolding her placing a single vote on Autumn which didn’t seem very serious.
-Throw away vote on ntndeacon on day two.
-Missed on DV on day two (voted for Lathum instead).

Mauboy
Positives - Tied Danny up with Chubby 5-5 on day two
Negatives - On more then one occasion has been late to the action
-One of four people to vote for Chubby on day one. Of those votes, one is a confirmed goodie and one a confirmed baddie.

Barkeep
Positive – Put Danny up 7 votes to 6 over Chubby on day 2 at 6:58 pm.
-Put a 2nd vote on Darth Vilus on day three to reduce Lathum’s lead over him to 4 to 2. Ntndeacon also had 2 votes at the time.
Negative – One of six people who voted for EagleFan day one. Two are confirmed goodies and one a confirmed baddie. That leaves Barkeep, Hoops, and Autumn.
-I still view his discussion of where people stood with Danny on day two as something that could have easily been wolf vs. wolf.

Lathum
Negative -Voted for Chubby day one. There is one confirmed baddie and one confirmed goodie of the ones who voted for him. the other living player who voted for him is mauboy.
Late to the action day two
Neutral - his tantrum with Chubby.
Self-defense move on day three reduced Barkeep’s total to four votes and gave DV 6 votes to Barkeep’s 5 votes.

Feeling bad about
Jeheinz
Negatives – Has gotten a bit of a free pass in my opinion. I think people may have been a bit critical on day two that he was getting votes (he got up to three) because of his long absence. I’d have to look back to be sure though. I think it'd be good to look back and see why he fizzled out on day two and what people said about voting for him.
-Day two and three throw away votes on ntndeacon.
-Tied Thomkal up with Autumn three to three at 2:27 pm on day four.
Positives – Gave Danny a 3rd vote on day one. At the time, Chubby and EagleFan each had 3 votes.

ntndeacon
Negatives - Throw away vote day one and day two
-Voted for Lathum initially over DV. Extended Lathum’s lead to 4-2 over DV.
-Very quiet since day one. Has fallen to last in post among living players.
Neutral - Switched off Lathum onto DV to avoid a “tie”. Didn’t actually change things much. Instead of Barkeep and Lathum each having 5 votes, DV and Barkeep did instead.
-Tied Autumn up with Thomkal 4-4 at 5:53 on day four.

Autumn
Negatives - Voted for Eagle Fan on day one. Of the six voters, two confirmed goodies and one confirmed baddie.
-Had a very odd vote when he switches off of Barkeep onto Lathum late on day three after saying DV was his second choice most of the day. The vote reduce DV’s lead over Lathum to 8-7 at the time.
Positives - Goes from wolf to wolf early (switches vote to Darth Vilus) in day two after Danny’s fake reveal.
- Jumps on Danny fairly early on in the voting process on day two.

[Racer]

I'd like to see Jeheinz or Autumn today. Right now I'm leaning towards Autumn just because I think he would shed light on more players. So for now.....

Vote Autumn

[Narcizo]

Oh, we're not in bad shape, true. But if we spend two days lynching villagers, in particular two days lynching villagers that the village is already decided about, taht's two days of very little useful vote history, possibly four villagers dead total, and no new leads on wolves at the end of it. That's what I worry about.

I don't think we'll get bogus voting records for two days. Or one even. If we lynch Telle and she comes up villager then we would all reassess. Chubby would presumably come after me as the next in the chain, I guess Hoops would carry on after you (playing the Good Wolf again). So I don't think we should be painting a Telle lynch quite so black. I think we have good reason to believe that there are wolves in the non-DV voters. I realise that that might be a dangerous assumption but I think we'll likely find two wolves in that group & Zinto.

[Telle]

Votes as of post #1800:

3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
3 - Zinto - Autumn (1718), mauboy (1768), EagleFan (1783)
2 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), Racer (1800)

[Autumn]

Great work, Racer, thanks for putting that together. It's the sort of thing I'd love to do but haven't had the time. Frankly Heinz had fallen off my radar altogether. In my defense to what you've posted about me, I gave my reasoning for switching to Lathum. I still have the note here on my desk - I was watching Lathum and Darth to see who would make the wise self-defense vote, wondering if we maybe had two wolves up (since I believed Barkeep was likely a wolf). Darth switched to Lathum, but Lathum didn't switch to Barkeep, I thought probably signalling that they were both wolves. It was, I felt, a very reasoned approach to the vote given that Barkeep was my main suspect that day.

[jeheinz72]

FWIW, I'm here. Don't really have much to add as I kind of feel out-paced here. I'm here to answer any questions anyone has of me though

[jeheinz72]

Right now I'm leaning Autumn or Zinto with my vote, I just don't think Telle would admit to passing a hammer she knew was fake. I can see her logic behind letting it go random, since it was Day/Night one. I don't know if I'd do the same, but I can at least see the reasoning in it.

[Narcizo]

What gets me, Zinto, isn't the vote, it's the flopping of the reasoning for your voting. Earlier you were voting NTN because you thought BK was a villager. Later you were voting BK because you thought he the most likely wolf. I'm not sure what would cause such a change other than the fact that it helped Darth out.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Zinto cast the vote that made sure that no vote trickery could save Darth. You're also conveniently forgetting your own rather inaccurate reason for voting Lathum ahead of Darth Vilus. I believe your argument was that Lathum didn't vote Barkeep even when it gave him the chance to push Barkeep ahead of himself when that's exactly what he did. And for this you abandon the voting Darth policy that you had been using for two days? You know, when it actually mattered. And now you call out Zinto for flip-flopping?

[Autumn]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Zinto cast the vote that made sure that no vote trickery could save Darth. You're also conveniently forgetting your own rather inaccurate reason for voting Lathum ahead of Darth Vilus. I believe your argument was that Lathum didn't vote Barkeep even when it gave him the chance to push Barkeep ahead of himself when that's exactly what he did. And for this you abandon the voting Darth policy that you had been using for two days? You know, when it actually mattered. And now you call out Zinto for flip-flopping?

No, Lathum didn't. Not at deadline when it mattered. I was watching the vote. A vote for Barkeep at that time would have helped him out, but he did not make it, not at that time. So you are misunderstanding or misremembering.

And I'm not ignoring Zinto's vote on Darth, I commented on it. It's the sort of burying vote that a wolf would do. No way a wolf ties up the vote there and ties themself to the wolf on their way down.

[Narcizo]

#1119 20:25 Darth Vilus unvotes Lathum (5)
#1119 20:25 Darth Vilus votes Barkeep (4)
#1129 20:44 Lathum unvotes DV (4)
#1129 20:44 Lathum votes Barkeep (5)
#1136 20:50 ntn unvotes Lathum (4)
#1136 20:50 ntn votes DV (5)
#1140 20:53 Lathum unvotes Barkeep (4)
#1140 20:53 Lathum votes DV (6)


Lathum votes BK in self-defence and then switches to DV when that looks like the best line of self-defence.

[jeheinz72]

I like Zinto's voting history a whole heckuva lot more than Autumn's

Vote Autumn

[Autumn]

Frankly, Narc, your posts to me seem to speak as if I'm suggesting I know all the answers. I have no idea who the wolves are. My votes and theories are based on looking at the evidence, with as much time as I can manage, and making guesses. I'm not suggesting everyone has to follow me and agree with me. Am I giving the impression that I'm telling you what to think?

[Autumn]

Lathum votes BK in self-defence and then switches to DV when that looks like the best line of self-defence.

I am talking about later in the day. When I made my switch to Lathum.

[Autumn]

There was a point, according to my scribbled notes, that it was 6-5-5 I believe it says, Darth-lathum-barkeep. At that point I expected Lathum would switch to barkeep to make it a Darth/Barkeep showdown. I expected Darth would switch to Lathum, to tie it up. Only one of those happened. That was my reasoning for picking Lathum over Darth.

[Autumn]

I'm not good enough of a villager to wriggle my way out of votes, as I've demonstrated well lately. This time (unlike last time I think!) there's some good reasons to vote me, so it's even harder to argue. I will continue to answer any questions people have, but I'm not going to try to argue my way out.

I will try, if I have time, to think more about where I think the wolves really are. I won't bother thinking out loud there, as it will just make everyone suspicious but I'll try to put together my suspicions before deadline.

[EagleFan]

I agree, at the time I was really suspicious that she would do that, it seemed a very odd move to send it random. But I'm not sure why a wolf would do that or claim to have one that.

A wolf would claim to do that so you didn't know they passed it to a wolf. That part makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why a wolf would come out with the information in the first place.

It's like I was just told "this statement is a lie"... My head is spinning... :)

[EagleFan]

unvote Zinto

vote Autumn

[EagleFan]

Reading Racer's write up and a couple things jumped out at me. The 'went from one wolf to the other' part. Danny wasn't a slam dunk vote at that point but it seems rather convenient that he voted one wolf and then switched to another (one which was pretty much like a brutal as it took a villaer with him).

[EagleFan]

Back to work, will check back in later.

[Telle]

I REALLY don't think that Autumn is a wolf. Whether you think I am one or not, why would he stick his neck out to save me? It just doesn't make any sense at all if he's a wolf.

I will not be voting Autumn.

[jeheinz72]

I REALLY don't think that Autumn is a wolf. Whether you think I am one or not, why would he stick his neck out to save me? It just doesn't make any sense at all if he's a wolf.

I will not be voting Autumn.

Hey Telle - can you give me the play-by-play of when this went down?

[Telle]

Just got home and caught up. Too bad you guys chose the day I said I'd be gone to vote me. I don't have the time to write much in defense, my wife is waiting for me, an I like her more than you guys :-)

I would hope that my help in getting Danny lynched would speak in my favor, and I have pushed earth into things numerous times too. That should saydarth stupid iPad

I don't have a role or an item so I'm okay going to Valhalla

The case on telle looked better at quick glance so

<b>vote telle</b>

Shoot

Unvote barkeeper
Vote telle

Also, why in the world would I come out and say that I had had a hammer and passed it randomly if I was a wolf? It's not like that has the slightest chance of drawing out Thor.. I didn't still have the hammer at that point to pass to him, and it was a known item in the game.. so all Thor would have learned was that there was a hammer, which he already knew!

If I was going to go passing around a fake hammer as a wolf, I sure as heck wouldn't be telling anybody about it.

Telle makes a pretty good point, why would she say anything?

Unvote telle

I guess I'm going thomkal. I don't really have a case, but I can't imagine why telle would say anything about the hammer if a wolf

Vote thomkal

Doesn't make sense to vote her if she seems villager. I don't have a special role, so better me.


At the point in which Autumn unvoted me, he was still very much in the running. And then he outright says that he'd rather he get lynched than me. I just don't see a wolf doing this.. not even for another wolf.

[MrBug708]

Vote Autumn

[Telle]

I don't think we'll get bogus voting records for two days. Or one even. If we lynch Telle and she comes up villager then we would all reassess. Chubby would presumably come after me as the next in the chain, I guess Hoops would carry on after you (playing the Good Wolf again). So I don't think we should be painting a Telle lynch quite so black. I think we have good reason to believe that there are wolves in the non-DV voters. I realise that that might be a dangerous assumption but I think we'll likely find two wolves in that group & Zinto.

The problem though is that the vote is currently going towards Autumn. You lynch him and he comes up villager.. then what? It does nothing to clear me, or tell you much about anyone else. So then the next day you'll all lynch me. And there you go.. two days, probably four villagers dead including night kills, and nothing to show for it.

Now if you did actually lynch me first, and then see me come up villager, then I think that would clear Autumn because of how he risked himself for me yesterday. No way a wolf does that for a villager.. too risky just to "gain trust".

Of course, I'd prefer to not be lynched at all. So, what other candidates can we discuss lynching? :)

[jeheinz72]

How much time was left before deadline when Autumn made that move telle? (if you know the post# I can just go look too - and thanks for getting that info)

[Telle]

How much time was left before deadline when Autumn made that move telle? (if you know the post# I can just go look too - and thanks for getting that info)

It was post #1529 and 9:26pm EST. So about a half hour to go before deadline.

[Telle]

It was post #1529 and 9:26pm EST. So about a half hour to go before deadline.

That is, when he unvoted me.

[jeheinz72]

Hrm, yeah, that doesn't seem to be a wolf move, even for wolf. So, that leaves who exactly?

[jeheinz72]

Unvote Autumn
Vote Mauboy

[jeheinz72]

Looking at his votes, I think it's worth a shot. I think he's done a lot of "I'm here and ready to analyze!" Then isn't there until it doesn't matter anymore

[Telle]

Well Zinto and I currently have votes. I'd of course prefer you not voting me :) I don't have much feeling one way or the other for Zinto.

Personally, I want to vote Narcizo. He keeps saying again and again that I passed him the hammer (which turned out to be a fake).. when in reality none of us, not even me, knows if the hammer he received came from me. So he's either a wolf trying to make me look worse than I already do, or he's just so absolutely convinced that I'm a wolf that he's blinding himself.

[jeheinz72]

I don't know if I buy Narc as a vote really, could be that I just have Narc-colored glasses on or something ,but I'm reading and agreeing with a lot of what he has pointed out

[Telle]

Well I admit, my feelings on Narcizo are definitely colored by the fact that he's so intent on lynching me... as it is I have to keep reminding myself that we're rather certain on Chubby being good, since he keeps coming after me so vehemently too :)

[mauchow]

Heinz is a jerk! The one game I did some small time analysis was this game. LOL. I'm far and away not an analysis type of player so don't expect me to do much there. Not sure where I said I would do some analyzing and didn't follow through. I did a little last week.

I almost didn't even respond to this but since you're a cool Guy I didn't want to ignore you.

[Chubby]

home from work

[Chubby]

vote count?

[Telle]

Votes as of post #1834:

3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
2 - Zinto - Autumn (1718), mauboy (1768)
4 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), Racer (1800), EagleFan (1815), MrBug (1821)
1 - mauboy - jeheinz (1827)

[Racer]

Reading Racer's write up and a couple things jumped out at me. The 'went from one wolf to the other' part. Danny wasn't a slam dunk vote at that point but it seems rather convenient that he voted one wolf and then switched to another (one which was pretty much like a brutal as it took a villaer with him).

Day Two

#403 22:30 Chubby votes Lathum (1)
#429 22:51 Autumn votes Danny (1)

#525 10:48 Autumn unvotes [COLOR=red]Danny (2)
#553 11:08 Autumn votes Darth Vilus (1)


Taken from Narcizo's vote history write-up on page 34. He unvoted on Danny when he revealed as Thor and put his vote on DV. It was the first vote DV received day two and it looks like it was the first vote he received in the game.

[jeheinz72]

Heinz is a jerk! The one game I did some small time analysis was this game. LOL. I'm far and away not an analysis type of player so don't expect me to do much there. Not sure where I said I would do some analyzing and didn't follow through. I did a little last week.

I almost didn't even respond to this but since you're a cool Guy I didn't want to ignore you.

It's not really that you did or didn't (heck, I haven't done any). It's that you seemed to post/imply that you were going to, then didn't.

I've at least tried to keep all expectations at a minimum with regard to what I have to offer the village (aka nada) :p

[Chubby]

can anyone explain why zinto still has any votes compared to the other 3?

[Chubby]

WWTD? (What would Thomkal do?)

[Racer]

I REALLY don't think that Autumn is a wolf. Whether you think I am one or not, why would he stick his neck out to save me? It just doesn't make any sense at all if he's a wolf.

I will not be voting Autumn.

Relooked at how the vote history went. Telle might be making a good point here. What are other people's thoughts on this?

When Autumn unvoted Telle, it made the vote:

6 votes Autumn
5 votes Telle
4 votes Thomkal.

Lathum voted for Telle before Autumn revoted. After Autumn voted Thomkal, the vote became

6 votes Autumn
6 votes Telle
5 votes Thomkal

Would a wolf risk doing this?

[Barkeep49]

I REALLY don't think that Autumn is a wolf. Whether you think I am one or not, why would he stick his neck out to save me? It just doesn't make any sense at all if he's a wolf.

I will not be voting Autumn.

It's easy for a wolf to save a villager. They know that if/when that villager ultimately dies they'll be vindicated. This is a standard play out of my wolf playbook. REALLY not thinking someone is a wolf is a pretty strong endorsement. Are you just basing it off this single action or a more complete picture of Autumn this game?

[Barkeep49]

It's easier for a wolf to make a dangerous unvote because he has information about how the other wolves will vote. This coordination shouldn't be underestimated.

[Chubby]

Relooked at how the vote history went. Telle might be making a good point here. What are other people's thoughts on this?

When Autumn unvoted Telle, it made the vote:

6 votes Autumn
5 votes Telle
4 votes Thomkal.

Lathum voted for Telle before Autumn revoted. After Autumn voted Thomkal, the vote became

6 votes Autumn
6 votes Telle
5 votes Thomkal

Would a wolf risk doing this?

I think they are desperate, so yes

[Telle]

It's easy for a wolf to save a villager. They know that if/when that villager ultimately dies they'll be vindicated. This is a standard play out of my wolf playbook. REALLY not thinking someone is a wolf is a pretty strong endorsement. Are you just basing it off this single action or a more complete picture of Autumn this game?

But he was actually making himself the lead vote getter at that point. There's no way that he could know that things would swing around to Thomkal by the end and save both of us.

[hoopsguy]

On for a minute, and will chime in here on the "wolf saving villager" scenario - kind of depends on the wolf. But probably not something a first/second time wolf would do ... would likely be something an experienced wolf might do when he is willing to take the heat for his teammates by bringing the focus on himself.

I don't think it is as good a percentage play in a game where we have no seer (assumption, I guess). In a game where there is a seer I think it is a good play for either a cunning wolf or a wolf who thinks they are going out soon and is willing to spread doubt about other players before they are nabbed.

[Barkeep49]

But he was actually making himself the lead vote getter at that point. There's no way that he could know that things would swing around to Thomkal by the end and save both of us.
But if he knows he's around and he knows other wolves are coming it's suddenly far less risky. There were 35 minutes left til deadline. Plenty of time to move back a vote in self-defense if needed.

[Racer]

I think they are desperate, so yes

I'm just curious, what would be the purpose? This obviously has given Telle trust, but what purpose would it serve for Autumn to risk himself like this if he was a wolf? It's a pretty high risk play. It requires Telle to die and for people to recognize that he helped prevent her from getting lynched.

I'm not really sure what to think now. Autumn's vote history looks pretty bad aside from this. Thomkal's looked bad too though.

[Barkeep49]

On for a minute, and will chime in here on the "wolf saving villager" scenario - kind of depends on the wolf. But probably not something a first/second time wolf would do ... would likely be something an experienced wolf might do when he is willing to take the heat for his teammates by bringing the focus on himself.

I don't think it is as good a percentage play in a game where we have no seer (assumption, I guess). In a game where there is a seer I think it is a good play for either a cunning wolf or a wolf who thinks they are going out soon and is willing to spread doubt about other players before they are nabbed.
So you think Autumn's actions are pro-villager? Or just talking hypothetically? I don't think that we were close enough to deadline to say he was saving her. I think there was plenty of time for movement.

[Telle]

But if he knows he's around and he knows other wolves are coming it's suddenly far less risky. There were 35 minutes left til deadline. Plenty of time to move back a vote in self-defense if needed.

He actually said that he would rather he be lynched than me. If he were to go back on that and vote me in self-defense, he'd know he'd be gone the next day. I just see this play as WAY too risky.

The other thing that got me thinking positively about him was that on Day 3 when he voted for Lathum at the end after going back and forth between you and Darth Vilus all day, I directly asked him why. He came back very fast with a good answer. Now that wasn't anywhere near enough to clear him in my book, but it felt much more villagery that wolfy to me.. if he was trying to save DV, then he would have had to concoct a story about his vote. And it just didn't feel like there was enough time there for him to have come up with such a clear and concise answer.

[Chubby]

I'm just curious, what would be the purpose? This obviously has given Telle trust, but what purpose would it serve for Autumn to risk himself like this if he was a wolf? It's a pretty high risk play. It requires Telle to die and for people to recognize that he helped prevent her from getting lynched.

I'm not really sure what to think now. Autumn's vote history looks pretty bad aside from this. Thomkal's looked bad too though.

I think Autumn has spent a little too much time defending telle, I also think he'd be willing to fall on the sword for his "boss"

[Telle]

Maybe Autumn's just Mr Super Uber Wolf and has me completely fooled.. but I really think he's much more likely to be a villager than a wolf.

[Autumn]

I'll pipe in and say that I think I did an awful lot to save her, not just move my vote, just as I did an awful lot to get Danny lynched. Both those days I was a very vocal advocate for my position. I argued for Telle's seeming innocence repeatedly, and think I had a pretty big effect on convincing people to not vote her. To my detriment, and ours, if it turns out she's a wolf, but I definitely put myself out there for the half hour before deadline, and have for days afterwards. Just the same, when Chubby hinted at his role, I began crusading for a vote shift back to Danny (after having voted him first thing during the night before), and I think it's clear if you read back or were there, that I had a big impact on convincing people to move their votes. These could be wolf moves, but I definitely stuck my nose out there much more than just shifting my vote around.

[Racer]

The problem though is that the vote is currently going towards Autumn. You lynch him and he comes up villager.. then what? It does nothing to clear me, or tell you much about anyone else. So then the next day you'll all lynch me. And there you go.. two days, probably four villagers dead including night kills, and nothing to show for it.

Now if you did actually lynch me first, and then see me come up villager, then I think that would clear Autumn because of how he risked himself for me yesterday. No way a wolf does that for a villager.. too risky just to "gain trust".

Of course, I'd prefer to not be lynched at all. So, what other candidates can we discuss lynching? :)

I disagree lynching Autumn would accomplish nothing. It would shed more light on day four's vote. Also, if he came up good it'd give us more info on the rest of the votes (though that would be true for any villager or wolf).

[Autumn]

I just have to say if I was a wolf, and Telle was a wolf, at the end of this game, you would be required by law to mock me for the worst game of Werewolf in human history. I mean, come on, I didn't just fall off the turnip cart.

[Racer]

I think Autumn has spent a little too much time defending telle, I also think he'd be willing to fall on the sword for his "boss"

I guess one possibility could be that they are both wolves.

[Racer]

Telle, if Autumn isn't lynched, who do you suggest we lynch instead? Who do you think might be a wolf or would provide us with more information?

[Chubby]

I guess one possibility could be that they are both wolves.

That was kinda what I was implying :)

[Narcizo]

The problem though is that the vote is currently going towards Autumn. You lynch him and he comes up villager.. then what? It does nothing to clear me, or tell you much about anyone else. So then the next day you'll all lynch me. And there you go.. two days, probably four villagers dead including night kills, and nothing to show for it.

Now if you did actually lynch me first, and then see me come up villager, then I think that would clear Autumn because of how he risked himself for me yesterday. No way a wolf does that for a villager.. too risky just to "gain trust".

Of course, I'd prefer to not be lynched at all. So, what other candidates can we discuss lynching? :)

None with me because I'm going to bed. If you think I'm a wolf then vote me. Make a case against me, instead of "He's coming hard after me so he must be a wolf". I presume Eagle will follow. If I'm right about you then you and your wolf buddies tried to set me up so yah boo sucks to you all. If I'm wrong then, well, sorry. I tend to get blinkers on after the first weekend. But you know if I'd chosen to let an important item go without having a chance to track it then I'd be a little bit more understanding of people questioning me. I'd fight my corner but I wouldn't be mystified over how anyone could possibly think I'm a wolf.

[Telle]

Unfortunately I don't have a strong wolfy vibe from anybody.. but let's see.

EagleFan is definitely a villager
Chubby we're 99% sure on
Racer looks very strongly to be a villager based on passing Thor his Hammer

Autumn has me convinced he's very likely a villager

Narcizo, Zinto, MrBug and hoopsguy have all had good vouches for them from others based on either play, voting, or passing of items

So that leaves: ntndeacon, mckerney, mauboy, Barkeep, Lathum, and jeheinz. I could easily vote for any of these, but I don't have any strong feelings for one above the others.

[Telle]

None with me because I'm going to bed. If you think I'm a wolf then vote me. Make a case against me, instead of "He's coming hard after me so he must be a wolf". I presume Eagle will follow. If I'm right about you then you and your wolf buddies tried to set me up so yah boo sucks to you all. If I'm wrong then, well, sorry. I tend to get blinkers on after the first weekend. But you know if I'd chosen to let an important item go without having a chance to track it then I'd be a little bit more understanding of people questioning me. I'd fight my corner but I wouldn't be mystified over how anyone could possibly think I'm a wolf.

?? When did I ever say that I was beyond speculation? Of course there are questions about me, and I've responded to them. But the fact that you REPEATEDLY state as fact that I passed you the hammer that turned out to be fake is really starting to tick me off, and that of course doesn't give you warm fuzzies about you :)

[Racer]

ntndeacon
Negatives - Throw away vote day one and day two
-Voted for Lathum initially over DV. Extended Lathum’s lead to 4-2 over DV.
-Very quiet since day one. Has fallen to last in post among living players.
Neutral - Switched off Lathum onto DV to avoid a “tie”. Didn’t actually change things much. Instead of Barkeep and Lathum each having 5 votes, DV and Barkeep did instead.
-Tied Autumn up with Thomkal 4-4 at 5:53 on day four.


Ugh, I definitely like Autumn as a candidate but I wouldn't mind seeing someone else I don't feel great about or neutral about on the line as well. I think overall the stuff with Telle is probably a point in his favor if he is a super experienced wolf (is he?).

May very well move by vote back to Autumn, but for now

Unvote Autumn
Vote ntndeacon

Quoted by feelings on him from earlier.

Fringe candidate earlier in the game with a questionable voting record. Somewhat torn between wanting him or Heinz on the block with Autumn.

[mauchow]

Telle please pass the item you have to me. Hoops obviously missed it on Friday and sent it to you instead.

I was trying to be discreet about it but I'm over that now.

[Telle]

Telle please pass the item you have to me. Hoops obviously missed it on Friday and sent it to you instead.

I was trying to be discreet about it but I'm over that now.

So just because hoops had some trust for you, I should?

[Telle]

Heading home now. Back closer to deadline to make whatever self-defense vote I need to and pass my item.

[jeheinz72]

Unvote Mauboy
Vote ntndeacon

[JAG]

Day 5 voting as of post #1865:

3 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), EagleFan (1815), MrBug708 (1821)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
2 - Zinto - Autumn (1718), mauboy (1768)
2 - ntndeacon - Racer (1861), jeheinz72 (1865)

P.S. Thanks for keeping on top of this Telle.

[mauchow]

So just because hoops had some trust for you, I should?

You've misunderstood. Hoops either didn't see what I asked or didn't understand. Pass the item to me because it is my destiny.

[Zinto]

I am definitely for a vote on NTN. He has been extremely quiet(I know, I know so have I) and he is someone who I wanted to gain some momentum as a candidate for a couple days now.

Vote NTN

[mckerney]

I can't say I have a very good read on anyone at this point, so my vote probably isn't going to be much better than a shot in the dark at this point.

Vote ntndeacon

Zinto's the one on the block I'd put the most trust in. I'm not sure what to make of Telle, but I'm not sure coming out with claiming the fake hammer on day one is much of a wolf move. Don't quite trust Autumn or ntn at this point, though ntn looks worse on vote history.

[jeheinz72]

I'm outta here, good huntin' all

[mauchow]

And now a run on ntn.

[Racer]

Holy awesome analysis hoops. Quick question for you....

Can you send me the sword tonight? :)

Telle please pass the item you have to me. Hoops obviously missed it on Friday and sent it to you instead.

I was trying to be discreet about it but I'm over that now.

Just to reference the old post.

Either mauboy's Freyr, the real Freyr hasn't disputed mauboy's hinted claim, or the role isn't in the game and Mauboy is a wolf.

Wonder a bit how Mauboy made it through Friday. Maybe the wolves missed his other post? I know I did.

[Autumn]

Just to reference the old post.

Either mauboy's Freyr, the real Freyr hasn't disputed mauboy's hinted claim, or the role isn't in the game and Mauboy is a wolf.

Wonder a bit how Mauboy made it through Friday. Maybe the wolves missed his other post? I know I did.

Good evidence I"m not a wolf then, I definitely caught that post the first time. If it's a fake reveal, it's pretty well done.

[Chubby]

I still think Telle is the best way to go tonight, we'll get info on other players as well.

[Chubby]

If I were thomkal, I'd be pretty pissed at autumn for screwing me over like he did last night...

[Racer]

Good evidence I"m not a wolf then, I definitely caught that post the first time. If it's a fake reveal, it's pretty well done.

I'm not really sure though. The directions clearly state that the wolves know 1-2 roles that aren't in the game. The directions also state that just because somebody's object is in the game doesn't mean that person is in the game. So there is no way of knowing whether or not Mauboy is Freyr or not without him doing a special action or lynching him.

Honestly, if the wolves found out an object is in the game but that player isn't in the game, it might be to their benefit to fake reveal that role.

All that being said, I don't see how it'd hurt for Telle to send Mauboy the sword even if Mauboy is a wolf.

[hoopsguy]

So you think Autumn's actions are pro-villager? Or just talking hypothetically? I don't think that we were close enough to deadline to say he was saving her. I think there was plenty of time for movement.

No, it isn't the sort of thing where I would be inclined to try and build a case for innocence with Autumn ... at least not to the extent that I started working on one for Telle last night. I think Autumn has been around the block enough times to understand that there is some value in counter-intuitive wolf plays.

[Racer]

I still think Telle is the best way to go tonight, we'll get info on other players as well.

I disagree with this. I think there are multiple people with bad voting records out there. Telle's isn't that bad.

Also, if Mauboy is who he says he is (which I'm quite skeptical of), it would make sense not to lynch Telle so Mauboy could get the sword and unlock whatever his power is (assuming he isn't night killed either). If Mauboy then doesn't do anything special in 2 or 3 days, I think it'd be time to seriously think about lynching him.

[hoopsguy]

I'm not wild about the idea of forestalling lynches on two people I've rated as pretty suspicious, but it is hard to argue with the logic Racer laid out.

[Chubby]

I disagree with this. I think there are multiple people with bad voting records out there. Telle's isn't that bad.

Also, if Mauboy is who he says he is (which I'm quite skeptical of), it would make sense not to lynch Telle so Mauboy could get the sword and unlock whatever his power is (assuming he isn't night killed either). If Mauboy then doesn't do anything special in 2 or 3 days, I think it'd be time to seriously think about lynching him.

This is exactly why I'm not changing my vote. Chanelling my best admiral ackbar... It's a trap!

[Racer]

This is exactly why I'm not changing my vote. Chanelling my best admiral ackbar... It's a trap!

lol :) , maybe, but what good does it do for the wolves to keep Telle from getting lynched one extra day?

Also, reading how items work, it doesn't really seem like that sword would do the wolves any good besides keeping it out of Freyr's hands.

[Autumn]

I'm not really sure though. The directions clearly state that the wolves know 1-2 roles that aren't in the game. The directions also state that just because somebody's object is in the game doesn't mean that person is in the game. So there is no way of knowing whether or not Mauboy is Freyr or not without him doing a special action or lynching him.

Honestly, if the wolves found out an object is in the game but that player isn't in the game, it might be to their benefit to fake reveal that role.

All that being said, I don't see how it'd hurt for Telle to send Mauboy the sword even if Mauboy is a wolf.

Oh yes, it could definitely be a fake. What I meant was that, if the wolves were to do that fake, I wouldn't expect that's the way they would do it. It seemed a very villagerish reveal.

[Racer]

Just to update:

Day 5 voting as of post #1882:

4 - ntndeacon - Racer (1861), jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869)
3 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), EagleFan (1815), MrBug708 (1821)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
2 - Zinto - Autumn (1718), mauboy (1768)

Still to vote: Hoops, ntndeacon, Telle

[Autumn]

Looking at Racer's analysis on NTN in deciding whether I should move my vote:

ntndeacon
Negatives - Throw away vote day one and day two
-Voted for Lathum initially over DV. Extended Lathum’s lead to 4-2 over DV.
-Very quiet since day one. Has fallen to last in post among living players.
Neutral - Switched off Lathum onto DV to avoid a “tie”. Didn’t actually change things much. Instead of Barkeep and Lathum each having 5 votes, DV and Barkeep did instead.
-Tied Autumn up with Thomkal 4-4 at 5:53 on day four.

I don't see how that Neutral element doesn't count as positive. NTN put DV into a tie for first instead of being in second. That's a positive if I've ever seen one, right?

I happen to know the other neutral is pretty meaningless. So while he's disturbingly quiet, I don't see he has enough negatives to make me vote there.

[Racer]

Looking at Racer's analysis on NTN in deciding whether I should move my vote:

ntndeacon
Negatives - Throw away vote day one and day two
-Voted for Lathum initially over DV. Extended Lathum’s lead to 4-2 over DV.
-Very quiet since day one. Has fallen to last in post among living players.
Neutral - Switched off Lathum onto DV to avoid a “tie”. Didn’t actually change things much. Instead of Barkeep and Lathum each having 5 votes, DV and Barkeep did instead.
-Tied Autumn up with Thomkal 4-4 at 5:53 on day four.

I don't see how that Neutral element doesn't count as positive. NTN put DV into a tie for first instead of being in second. That's a positive if I've ever seen one, right?

I happen to know the other neutral is pretty meaningless. So while he's disturbingly quiet, I don't see he has enough negatives to make me vote there.

Yeah. I guess it would probably be in the positive in the column. Technically, there was a tie so the reason given wasn't really valid but he could have easily been mistaken in thinking that he was ending the tie.

[Autumn]

Well Hoops is a deciding factor here. If no one wants to vote Zinto I'm not sure what to do. I don't think Telle or NTN are particularly strong votes. I'd almost rather vote Telle just because I feel like we need to settle this issue and move on, even though I'm fairly certain it would be a loss for us. But I will switch to NTN if need be, especially if we don't hear from him tonight. He's a low volume poster in general, but we have to have more from him than this. I'll look back at the information today and see, maybe I can find a better candidate than any of those.

[Autumn]

Looking back through Racer's analysis, much of which but not all I agree with, I don't see a lot of people I'd be willing to vote at this point. Mr.Bug strikes me as someone getting a pass for no good reason. Narc is one of the only people on there with no real positive or negative points in either direction. Hoops didn't have a lot in the descript that made me impressed,other than maybe having held items?

I would love to hear people's thoughts on these three folks, well, and Barkeep too who has been on my suspect list all along, though his vote on Darth has kept me from going back to it. What am I missing that makes you not want to vote one of these guys?

[Autumn]

Narc I actually have a gut feel is a villager. He's been on me like white on rice, which unfortunately reminds me of his villager play ;-) I think he tends to overthink as a villager and get too certain about theories. I would guess as a wolf he'd be less certain.

Bug I think I would move to. I was thinking about the mistletoe this weekend, and while he's touched it twice, the first time Eaglefan wasn't revealed, and the second time ...w ell he still has it. I'm a bit worried that if he's a wolf he may be able to use it tonight.

[hoopsguy]

I'm giving MrBug a wider berth than most because of the passed Mistletoe, which he has now done twice if I've kept up with the thread properly. I also don't think a wolf would make such a point of saying he didn't see the mistletoe go where he wanted it to go, as he did on D2 when saying he had passed it to Dubb. He made that point multiple times.

I didn't think that the description Racer provided gave me my due for voting record, for what it is worth. It is still to be seen if Autumn is a good vote, but the timing on the Danny/Darth votes was pretty meaningful.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum is the person who has dropped completely off the radar today. As far as I can tell, the thing that has spoken best for him was being in a close race against Darth.

I'm going to go back and do a quick revisit of Zinto before laying down a vote.

[hoopsguy]

I understand your thinking but I have to doubt there are two wolves on you. With so many places to hide a vote, if you ended up being a villager who got lynched on day one I am sure people would jump all over your voters. Yes there is almost a hundred percent chance there is one on you but I have to doubt two.

This logic, coupled with his desire to look at the EF voters from D1 (this was a D2 post) struck me as a little odd. There weren't that many candidates out there, and he was making this assumption with the idea that Danny was a villager. Chances are good that there were multiple wolves on a candidate, given a 20 person game. And if Danny was a villager, there would be reasons to think that there were two wolves on him. Or at least as much as there was to be on EF.

[Racer]

This logic, coupled with his desire to look at the EF voters from D1 (this was a D2 post) struck me as a little odd. There weren't that many candidates out there, and he was making this assumption with the idea that Danny was a villager. Chances are good that there were multiple wolves on a candidate, given a 20 person game. And if Danny was a villager, there would be reasons to think that there were two wolves on him. Or at least as much as there was to be on EF.

Yeah. That logic doesn't make any sense. It could easily be something that was just poorly thought out though. I would look at the timing of his votes though and see what you think. I feel like Zinto has some of the best votes out there.

[Racer]

Dola, Narc's vote history is on page 34.

[hoopsguy]

Racer, Zinto has the 7th vote on Zinto on Day 1 - that is obviously a great vote without any context around it. And it takes place with 12 minutes to go, so it wasn't some kind of ninja play.

But if the wolves know that Danny has a "wolf duke" power, how do you think they would play out that evening? Danny was among the leading vote people on Day 1. He is among the short-list to get scanned on any given day, and they have no reason to expect they are going to be getting the seer with the night kill. How would they proceed with using that power?

If it was a wolf duke, you could argue that they were better positioned to use it on Day 2. But if it was a +2 votes, or a "win tie" or some other combination of stuff that played well only in a close race then I think they would want to use it on Day 1 and benefit from trust gained later in the game.

Probably me being paranoid. I just feel like his votes look a whole lot better than I feel about the poster right now and I'm trying to make sense out of that.

[hoopsguy]

Anyway, I'm going to go with where I went yesterday and where I trust the overall group of people I'm voting with more than the others.

This ended up being a little bit harder to cast than I thought it would be when I was reading along last night. But I still think this is the best vote for today.

VOTE AUTUMN

[Racer]

Racer, Zinto has the 7th vote on Zinto on Day 1 - that is obviously a great vote without any context around it. And it takes place with 12 minutes to go, so it wasn't some kind of ninja play.

But if the wolves know that Danny has a "wolf duke" power, how do you think they would play out that evening? Danny was among the leading vote people on Day 1. He is among the short-list to get scanned on any given day, and they have no reason to expect they are going to be getting the seer with the night kill. How would they proceed with using that power?

If it was a wolf duke, you could argue that they were better positioned to use it on Day 2. But if it was a +2 votes, or a "win tie" or some other combination of stuff that played well only in a close race then I think they would want to use it on Day 1 and benefit from trust gained later in the game.

Probably me being paranoid. I just feel like his votes look a whole lot better than I feel about the poster right now and I'm trying to make sense out of that.

Ah okay. That makes more sense then.

[Telle]

So what do we think about this reveal by mauboy? Is there any real risk to me passing him the sword if he is a wolf?

[hoopsguy]

So what do we think about this reveal by mauboy? Is there any real risk to me passing him the sword if he is a wolf?

No more than the random going to you when I strongly suspected you of being a wolf :)

In all seriousness, Freyr is listed as a good role in the game. So I suspect the reward for pairing a character and his item is greater than the risk of giving it to the wolves.

Looking at the description, I'm guessing that the weapon would make it tough for him to be killed or allow a player kill option. I would still take "the field" over those two guesses, but those seem like the most logical readings of the sword's legend to me.

[Autumn]

Racer, Zinto has the 7th vote on Zinto on Day 1 - that is obviously a great vote without any context around it. And it takes place with 12 minutes to go, so it wasn't some kind of ninja play.

But if the wolves know that Danny has a "wolf duke" power, how do you think they would play out that evening? Danny was among the leading vote people on Day 1. He is among the short-list to get scanned on any given day, and they have no reason to expect they are going to be getting the seer with the night kill. How would they proceed with using that power?

If it was a wolf duke, you could argue that they were better positioned to use it on Day 2. But if it was a +2 votes, or a "win tie" or some other combination of stuff that played well only in a close race then I think they would want to use it on Day 1 and benefit from trust gained later in the game.

Probably me being paranoid. I just feel like his votes look a whole lot better than I feel about the poster right now and I'm trying to make sense out of that.

That's the reason for my vote for him. I can't imagine that Danny plays the game he played, and they don't try to get some trust out of it. There has to be wolf votes for him, both on day one when they figure they can wriggle out of it, and day two when they can gain trust for it. So late day one, early day two.

[Barkeep49]

At a certain point voting record can't be explained away away away. I think we've reached that point with Autumn. I hope you join me in voting for him.

This message brought to you by Ctiizens for a Wolf Free Asgard

[Barkeep49]

That's the reason for my vote for him. I can't imagine that Danny plays the game he played, and they don't try to get some trust out of it. There has to be wolf votes for him, both on day one when they figure they can wriggle out of it, and day two when they can gain trust for it. So late day one, early day two.
Though I agree with you underlying point, I would actually guess it would be early day 1 and post-reveal D2.

[Telle]

No more than the random going to you when I strongly suspected you of being a wolf :)

In all seriousness, Freyr is listed as a good role in the game. So I suspect the reward for pairing a character and his item is greater than the risk of giving it to the wolves.

Looking at the description, I'm guessing that the weapon would make it tough for him to be killed or allow a player kill option. I would still take "the field" over those two guesses, but those seem like the most logical readings of the sword's legend to me.

And once again, I didn't have to come out and say that I got the sword. If I was a wolf I could have kept quiet about it and passed it amongst my wolfy pals.

But I think I'm agreeing with you. Plus the rules stated that only the intended user of an item can use it.. so unless there is a wolf role that can use the sword, handing it over to an uncleared player doesn't carry much risk. I just hope it gives mauboy enough strength to fight off a night attack since this is obviously painting a target on his back.

[MrBug708]

Narc I actually have a gut feel is a villager. He's been on me like white on rice, which unfortunately reminds me of his villager play ;-) I think he tends to overthink as a villager and get too certain about theories. I would guess as a wolf he'd be less certain.

Bug I think I would move to. I was thinking about the mistletoe this weekend, and while he's touched it twice, the first time Eaglefan wasn't revealed, and the second time ...w ell he still has it. I'm a bit worried that if he's a wolf he may be able to use it tonight.

I only revealed I had the missletoe because other items were being revealed and I admitted that I thought I killed dubbed.

I also don't have the missletoe as I passed it to racer, pretty much a cleared villager. That should have bought me the benefit of the doubt over some other people.

[Chubby]

Vote count?

[Barkeep49]

And once again, I didn't have to come out and say that I got the sword. If I was a wolf I could have kept quiet about it and passed it amongst my wolfy pals.

But I think I'm agreeing with you. Plus the rules stated that only the intended user of an item can use it.. so unless there is a wolf role that can use the sword, handing it over to an uncleared player doesn't carry much risk. I just hope it gives mauboy enough strength to fight off a night attack since this is obviously painting a target on his back.
I agree that the risk/reward ratio suggests making the pass to mau.

[Telle]

Votes as of post #1904:

3 - Telle -Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
2 - Zinto- Autumn (1718), mauboy (1768)
4 - Autumn- Barkeep (1761), EagleFan (1815), MrBug (1821), hoopsguy (1895)
4 - ntndeacon - Racer (1861), jeheinz (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869)

[Barkeep49]

4 - ntndeacon - Racer (1861), jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869)
4 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), EagleFan (1815), MrBug708 (1821), Hoopsguy (1895)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
2 - Zinto - Autumn (1718), mauboy (1768)

Still to vote: ntndeacon, Telle

[Racer]

Vote count?

Just to update:

Day 5 voting as of post #1882:

4 - ntndeacon - Racer (1861), jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869)
4 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), EagleFan (1815), MrBug708 (1821), Hoops (1895)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
2 - Zinto - Autumn (1718), mauboy (1768)

Still to vote: ntndeacon, Telle

I will switch to Autumn if need be.

[Telle]

Not sure about ntndeacon, but he is on my not-so-short list of possible suspects. Plus, self-defense and all..

vote ntndeacon

[Racer]

Chubby, I know you prefer Telle the most, but who do you prefer the most between ntndeacon and Autumn? I'm still debating on which one to go with.

[Barkeep49]

Well we have all 3 potential targets able to make a switch if needed. Given that I encourage ntn and Telle to join me in voting Autumn; fall is upon us.

This message brought to you by Friends of Barkeep

[mauchow]

I want to switch my vote before I head out in 10 minutes for a softball game.

But who?

[Barkeep49]

Chubby, I know you prefer Telle the most, but who do you prefer the most between ntndeacon and Autumn? I'm still debating on which one to go with.
Considering that these are really our top two candidates I would encourage you to vote for which one you think is best.

[mauchow]

unvote zinto
vote autumn

[Racer]

Considering that these are really our top two candidates I would encourage you to vote for which one you think is best.

I like both of them as candidates. Since Chubby is like 99% cleared, I'd like to get his perspective on this (like if anything jumps out about either candidate to him).

[mauchow]

Will ntn not get a vote in today?

[Barkeep49]

I'm done pushing Autumn. I wanted to make sure he achieved top 2 as I think that will prove some good vote history in the long run.

So with that done can someone re-explain the case against ntn?

[hoopsguy]

I'm wondering what the heck is up with Lathum? Zero posts in the thread today. And he just posted in the "WW Fantasy Football" thread so he is at least around enough to do that.

Did he post over the weekend about availability issues?

This makes me pretty uneasy. Probably not to the point of doing something about it tonight but I certainly hope he'll be more active going forward. He is a good villager, and I want an engaged Lathum on my side.

[Barkeep49]

I like both of them as candidates. Since Chubby is like 99% cleared, I'd like to get his perspective on this (like if anything jumps out about either candidate to him).
I forgot that you were also very cleared when making this post. Generally someone trying to follow a known villager is a little too easy of an excuse for a bad vote, but in this case I agree with you it's a good idea.

[Racer]

Day 5 voting as of post #1919:

5 - ntndeacon - Racer (1861), jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869), Telle (1909)
5 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), EagleFan (1815), MrBug708 (1821), Hoops (1895), mauboy (1914)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
1 - Zinto - Autumn (1718)

Still to vote: ntndeacon

[Chubby]

I like both of them as candidates. Since Chubby is like 99% cleared, I'd like to get his perspective on this (like if anything jumps out about either candidate to him).

I'm waiting for autumn to move his vote :D

[mauchow]

Was Autumn out for the night?

So, assuming two self defense votes we have ourselves a tie and need telle voters to make a decision.

[JAG]

Day 5 voting as of post #1919:

5 - ntndeacon - Racer (1861), jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869), Telle (1909)
5 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), EagleFan (1815), MrBug708 (1821), Hoops (1895), mauboy (1914)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)
1 - Zinto - Autumn (1718)

Still to vote: ntndeacon

I concur.

[mauchow]

And I'm outta here, unfortunately. Time to whack a few balls......

[Barkeep49]

Was Autumn out for the night?

So, assuming two self defense votes we have ourselves a tie and need telle voters to make a decision.
I don't think we can assume ntn will vote.

[Chubby]

honestly, ntn shouldn't even be in the conversation today, it should be between telle and autumn

[Barkeep49]

Why is ntn in the conversation today? It feels like a similar push to what got us Thomkal which I also didn't really understand.

[Autumn]

I'm loathe to move my vote. If NTN turns out to be the lynch and a villager, we're just back to the same crap tomorrow. Yes, you'll say, this is Autumn as a wolf, knowing NTN's a villager, trying to cover his back. But you have to admit, as a villager, I'm in the same bind.

I guess given NTN's no vote, no posting lately, I can feel better about voting him. If he's a villager he's not an active one. My activity isn't helping us, but I suppose that could change some day.

<b>unvote zinto
vote ntndeacon</b>

[Barkeep49]

Also, Danny has been talked about a lot today but hasn't posted at all. I think that's definite wolf behavior.

[Chubby]

Why is ntn in the conversation today? It feels like a similar push to what got us Thomkal which I also didn't really understand.

exactly.

autumn - i'm not voting for telle
telle - i'm not voting for autumn

3rd candidate gets f'd

honestly, we have a bigger shot at more damage by taking out telle with lynch

[Telle]

honestly, ntn shouldn't even be in the conversation today, it should be between telle and autumn

Except for the fact that we're both villagers. (or at least I'm pretty convinced Autumn is)

[Barkeep49]

I agree that a Telle or Autumn lynch tells us a lot more than lynching ntn. Personally I think Telle is good, but I think her lynch would be more meaningful than ntn.

[Chubby]

Except for the fact that we're both villagers. (or at least I'm pretty convinced Autumn is)

yes yes of course :popcorn:

[Barkeep49]

Except for the fact that we're both villagers. (or at least I'm pretty convinced Autumn is)
Yes but your death gives us important information. Listen I think your innocent and hence haven't voted for you, but figuring out the fake hammer is of some consequence to the village.

[Autumn]

Vote me if you've got the numbers, I agree we're just doing the same thing. It's silly.

[Chubby]

even if i move it's still tie, i think we can get 7 on telle?

[Telle]

Yes but your death gives us important information. Listen I think your innocent and hence haven't voted for you, but figuring out the fake hammer is of some consequence to the village.

Ok so you lynch me and find out I'm a villager.. what does that tell you about the fake hammer?

[Barkeep49]

Ok so you lynch me and find out I'm a villager.. what does that tell you about the fake hammer?
Drops Narc down in trust for one.

[JAG]

Day 5 voting as of post #1937:

6 - ntndeacon - Racer (1861), jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869), Telle (1909), Autumn (1928)
5 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), EagleFan (1815), MrBug708 (1821), hoopsguy (1895), mauboy1 (1914)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)

[Chubby]

Thomkal - Telle screwed you over pretty bad yesterday too don't forget

[EagleFan]

unvote Autumn

vote ntn

[Barkeep49]

even if i move it's still tie, i think we can get 7 on telle?
I don't think we need to be so scared of a tie, despite the threat of random death.

[Racer]

Okay, I'm going to go back with my initial best gut instinct. Also, going a bit off the gut of others.

Unvote ntndeacon
Vote Autumn

I think this is a tie. I'll switch it back if need be.

[Barkeep49]

Eagle I think that's a mistake. That vote just really just gives us Thomkal part 2.

[Chubby]

of course racer could move to autumn and seal it?

[Chubby]

unvote Autumn

vote ntn

seriously?

[Racer]

unvote Autumn

vote ntn

Crap. You untied it and then I tied it again. Who do you actually prefer?

[JAG]

Day 5 voting as of post #1947:

6 - ntndeacon - jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869), Telle (1909), Autumn (1928), EagleFan (1941)
5 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), MrBug708 (1821), hoopsguy (1895), mauboy1 (1914), Racer (1943)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)

[Telle]

Crap. You untied it and then I tied it again. Who do you actually prefer?

My notes have ntn up by one.

[Chubby]

you really think a wolf wouldn't even get a vote in at this point?

[Autumn]

I don't think it's tied, it's 6-5, no?

[MrBug708]

Oy...lol

[Chubby]

my vote does nothing, need an ntn to switch

[hoopsguy]

Just looking at the NTN voters vs the Autumn voters - significant differences in levels of trust for me between those two blocs. I'm staying where I am.

[EagleFan]

I think mckerney and ntn need looked into at some point.

Vote count?

[Autumn]

If I thought there was a 0% chance NTN was a wolf I'd just vote myself at this point.

[MrBug708]

Ntn just seems like a wasted move today

[Barkeep49]

I think mckerney and ntn need looked into at some point.

Vote count?
At some point, sure. But this point?

[JAG]

Day 5 voting as of post #1957:

6 - ntndeacon - jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869), Telle (1909), Autumn (1928), EagleFan (1941)
5 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), MrBug708 (1821), hoopsguy (1895), mauboy1 (1914), Racer (1943)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)

[EagleFan]

unvote ntn

vote Autumn

[Barkeep49]

you really think a wolf wouldn't even get a vote in at this point?
If someone doesn't show up the wolves can't get them to vote.

[Chubby]

god damn it,gotta go with my gut. it's worked so far

[Telle]

Drops Narc down in trust for one.

Hmmm... I need to remember this for tomorrow. I know I'm a villager, so I suppose I should be the one looking closer at him.

[Racer]

Chubby, it'd be good for you to vote for Autumn at this point just to make the gap big enough to make sure we don't end up with a tie.

[Chubby]

thomkal - I wish I could Telle you something

[Chubby]

Chubby, it'd be good for you to vote for Autumn at this point just to make the gap big enough to make sure we don't end up with a tie.

there won't be a tie

[Barkeep49]

thomkal - I wish I could Telle you something
Man that's worse than the joke I was going to make when hoops said he wanted lanthum to be engaged (but hoops Lathum's already married!).

[Telle]

thomkal - I wish I could Telle you something

You know, I can't freaking wait to get killed or get to the end of the game... just to watch your brain explode when you learn I'm a villager.

[Chubby]

Chubby, it'd be good for you to vote for Autumn at this point just to make the gap big enough to make sure we don't end up with a tie.

i'd make it 7-5, a switch ties and risks potentially another lynch

[hoopsguy]

Man that's worse than the joke I was going to make when hoops said he wanted lanthum to be engaged (but hoops Lathum's already married!).

Insert Saldana joke here.

[Chubby]

/crosses fingers

[Autumn]

<b>unvote ntn
vote autumn</b>

no ties, there you go.

[EagleFan]

WTF?

[Barkeep49]

<b>unvote ntn
vote autumn</b>

no ties, there you go.

:rolleyes:

[Autumn]

See y'all in Valhalla. I gotta go do some work.

[EagleFan]

That move screams wolf.

[JAG]

Deadline.

[Telle]

So great.. we lynch a villager again tonight. Probably me tomorrow (another villager). This game just keeps getting better and better.

[Autumn]

That move screams wolf.

lol, really?

[hoopsguy]

That move screams wolf.

I hope, but that wasn't my read.

[Racer]

That move screams wolf.

Yeah agreed. Fingers crossed.

[Chubby]

So great.. we lynch a villager again tonight. Probably me tomorrow (another villager). This game just keeps getting better and better.

nothing screams villager than voting yourself at the deadline already down 7-5

[hoopsguy]

I hope, but that wasn't my read.

Probably not getting the dola in here, but I mean the read on a deadline self-vote when outcome is in doubt. As opposed to my vote on Autumn as a wolf - not trying to get out of any accountability if he turns up villager in a couple of minutes.

[JAG]

Final Day 5 voting:

7 - Autumn - Barkeep (1761), MrBug708 (1821), hoopsguy (1895), mauboy1 (1914), Racer (1943), EagleFan (1960), Autumn (1972)
4 - ntndeacon - jeheinz72 (1865), Zinto (1868), mckerney (1869), Telle (1909)
3 - Telle - Lathum (1706), Chubby (1717), Narcizo (1769)

[Telle]

nothing screams villager than voting yourself at the deadline already down 7-5

Making sure nobody does a ninja move making a tie. Why would a wolf do it? Dramatic flare?

[Chubby]

Making sure nobody does a ninja move making a tie. Why would a wolf do it? Dramatic flare?

There wasn't going to be a tie

[Autumn]

I was avoiding any chance of a tie, or any chance of a last second move to NTN. Frankly, if that happened, unless he came up wolf, I'd be dead meat tomorrow. i don't need to deal with that. You guys had the numbers, let's just seal the deal.

[Autumn]

There wasn't going to be a tie

If you're hinting at some special power, please don't act like any of the rest of us would know that there can't be a tie.

[JAG]

Suspicions grow after Thomkal the Bold's death. You feel an increased sense of urgency to find the agents of evil before it is too late. You finally decide that Autumn is a traitor and march him to the block to meet his fate. He argues long and loud that he is a loyal to the cause of good and casts doubt on a number of you, but you refuse to listen to him and force him to his knees. With a solid whack, you end his life and wait to see the result of your work.

As the illusion fades from him, you recognize him as Autumn the Unyielding, known for his penchant of fighting against the most outrageous odds and still surviving to tell the tale. Unfortunately his life is now over.

Autumn was a vanilla Norse Berserker

Processing actions, will be back with the remainder of the day in a little while.

[Chubby]

If you're hinting at some special power, please don't act like any of the rest of us would know that there can't be a tie.

I'm not hinting at anything, why should I say a peep at anything? Thor doesn't need the wolves to know what is going on.

[Telle]

Wow.. I am SHOCKED. Shocked I tell you!!!

[EagleFan]

We're letting the wolves run the show with our voting lately, me thinks.

[Chubby]

we'll see if he gets into valhalla with that

[Autumn]

I've already been in Hel.

[MrBug708]

Wow.. I am SHOCKED. Shocked I tell you!!!

Wolves know who is on either side

[Telle]

Wolves know who is on either side

:rolleyes:

[MrBug708]

U just seem too over the top about this

[Telle]

U just seem too over the top about this

Well when I've been beating a dead horse all day about the evidence pointing to Autumn being a villager, and nobody believes me, and then it comes back that I was right... yeah, might be feeling a little "over the top" about this.

[EagleFan]

What was your reasoning behind thinking he was a villager?

[Telle]

The thing that sold it for me was that he REALLY stuck his neck out for me on Day 4. He outright said he'd rather he get lynched than me. I just don't see a wolf self-sacrificing like that.