Werewolf: Hunt for Necromancers - GAME OVER! Post #3469

[hoopsguy]

Path, it was blessed but no one attacked you that night. So no real impact. The role of items in this game was reduced with the death of the Explorer early, followed by the death of the Mystic ... no real incentive for the Initiate to craft scarabs with the Mystic gone.

I had a chart of items put together for the Explorer role - success in searches, and the item found, was determined by random.org.

[Schmidty]

Thanks for the great game hoops. Very well done.

I had a lot of fun after I got drawn out into the open and got to throw my fit. :)

[Barkeep49]

What did the helmet do?

[Chubby]

A whole lot of nothing (the helmet)

[Barkeep49]

NO seriously. The game's over, so you don't have to lie any more. What did the helmet do :)?

[Chubby]

I think hoops even said in the writeup that the helmet did nothing. I knew that already tho.

[hoopsguy]

The helmet was capable of protecting the wearer from scans for three consecutive days. That person would show up as a complete blank to the person doing the scans.

With no mystic and no dreamweaver in the mix, plus Lathum already having all the information he needed at the time that SnDvls invoked it, the helmet had no impact on the outcome.

So Chubby is, for all intents, and purposes, 100% correct.

[Lathum]

Thanks for running a great game hoops. Man, I felt some stress with this role! I didn't want to screw it up, lol. My goal all along was to eliminat the necs and leave just me vs. the villegars. If it got to an end game point I was going to conjur a mummy to side with me. I chose sndvls to pass my powers to because he was the only guy at the time who was cleared.

Some of my highlights.

Watching Dubb lose his mind after my fake role reveal, I knew at that point I could have laid low but where is the fun in that?

Diseasing Saldana, just because

Qwik wriggling his way out of trouble, it was a nice play

I was sure king and qwik were coming for me the night path died but I guess they were trying to set me up?

[st.cronin]

Werewolf Journal

Wednesday 8am Mountain Time

Hoopsguy confirmed last night that somebody had "scanned" me, and therefore knew that I was a) not a nec and b) had a role. He also mentioned that it was somebody ELSE who silenced me, somebody who didn't, or couldn't know, that I was a nec.

My thoughts on SnDvls/dubb: Not sure what dubb is doing there. His 'yak' comment at 7:47 makes me wonder if it was him that silenced me. More likely, they are both good. If dubb was bad, I doubt he would make that play, regardless of what he knew about Sn. Although I wonder if one of them scanned me, and the other silenced me, and somehow they're picking up on some code? That would be a ballsy play.

Nobody is really high on my suspect list right now.

9:30am

By the way, I was absolutely trying to goad the necs into some action with my posts yesterday. Action = info. As long as they're hiding among us, finding each other, allowing us to run blind lynches, they have the advantage.

9:59am (dubb's reveal)

I more or less believe it, but if true, the mechanic is not a night action, but an instantaneous action. Which is interesting, I'm not sure I approve of that mechanic.

Either way, I wouldn't have done it were I dubb.

11:26am
Why didn't dubb verify Lathum's 'reveal'? Lathum makes a good point (#1019) about how the egyptians want to keep the necs in the dark about who has and has not been cleared. I don't think he's correct; unless there are as many necs as egyptians, information is better for us.

12:52pm (hoops clarification on mystic's ability to summon an avatar)
So it seems as though the mystic is building an avatar.

1:05pm
Vince is thinking the same way I am about Lathum. At this point I would be most tempted to vote for Chubby, or maybe Blade. No real reason other than lack of contributions.

Thursday, 7:00am
Last night's lynch of Bek was very lucky, but also points to how difficult it is for the bad guys to play when they can't coordinate their activities. It's likely that Bek had made contact with, at most, 1 other bad guy. I don't believe it was Bek which silenced me; I believe that had to be the head nec.

7:46am
Suspect lists for today appear to be everybody, with tanglewood, chubby, and a couple of others topping the lists. Blade is trying to get us to consider voting records, which doesn't make a lot of sense, considering the game mechanics. I don't see much to go on.

9:14am
I wonder why Barkeep was passed the scarab? He certainly wasn't high on my trust list.

9:23am
Wow, Blade is all over the place casting suspicion on everybody. I think dubb and Pass are likely good. Barkeep, who knows - if he were bad he still may come forward and say, hey, somebody gave me this scarab. Lathum, again, who knows.

9:46am
path was attacked! I'm going to guess that was ruling class.

At this point, there really isn't one solid piece of data out there. Well, we can assume that dubb is soothsayer, but that doesn't make him good or bad.

9:55am
Blade is the most paranoid player, by far. I don't know why he's pushing on path. Blade = ruling class? That's my guess right now. I don't really understand the role of ruling class/pharoah, but there appears to be some built-in conflict there.

10:19am
Pass says he "can't pass the dagger?" That doesn't sound likely.

11:59am
Damn Tyrith is good at this game. 1 bad guy who knew bek was bad, and 1 bad guy who knew I was good. Tyrith might be one of the necs, but if he's not, he's a savvy player.

12:51pm
Blade is pushing for bulletsponge very hard. There is still a lot of chatter but none of it really points at anybody being good or bad. SnDvls is probably clear; everybody else I'm up in the air about. Passacaglia's story doesn't sound right to me, but I don't understand why he came out with it.

1:06pm
Blade dies a horrible death! Ok, so what was Blade saying about Lathum? Apparently Lathum was NOT viewed by the seer. Which makes me think that something else happened there, neither seer nor necro.

1:38pm
This just occured to me: I wonder if Blade was somehow not able to view Lathum, for some reason?

2:41
Alan T makes a good point about Blade possibly telling us who he has scanned. I think it's important for the seer to make it very easy for people to figure out who he scanned after death. I hope that's what Blade did.

Friday, 9:05am
Fouts almost HAS to be a mummy. I'm curious to see what he has to say. Lots of guesses as to who Blade has scanned - I'm thinking probably lathum, dubb, bulletsponge. Lathum = prophecy? That would explain why he was aware of his scan, but the others weren't. I wonder what kind of reading Blade got, if that's the case. Fouts is the obvious lynch for today. One area of concern is that three ruling class members are now gone. Who replaces them, and what is their purpose?

9:56am
And Lathum has just come out against the Fouts bandwagon. He thinks there are two seers, since Blade more or less denied scanning him.

10:19am
I like Lathum's idea that Alan might be bad, but I don't like his theory that Fouts is an avatar. I don't understand Lathum's game at all. It doesn't make any sense that Fouts is an avatar - at worst, it is equally likely that he is avatar or mummy.

10:26am
I think Lathum must be the prophecy. I think he killed Blade, and I think now he's trying to influence the game to get to his own victory conditions, whatever they might be. I wonder if Blade knew/suspected this?

10:30am
AlanTs response to Lathum is mostly based on Blade NOT scanning Lathum, which I think is not a sure thing. Blade didn't explicitly say who he scanned, he just hinted in such a way that you could guess one way or the other.

11:26
path makes an odd comment that we don't need to worry about the ruling class. I suspect that path, the prophecy, and the ruling class all have their own agenda.

11:48
I think Lathum is right about AlanT. AlanT is sounding a little fishy with some of his posts.

12:11pm
As I just said to hoops in a pm, I wish Lathum was being clearer about why he's SURE that Fouts is an avatar. I suppose the only way he could know that for sure is if he had brought Fouts into the game himself, but then what was his reveal all about? Suppose he is a mystic. Is it a situation like we had in that one game, where two seers alternate views?

1:13pm
Dubb looking for a post to soothsay on. I would pick something Lathum said, try to figure out where he's coming from.

1:47pm
Dubb is thinking the way I would be at this point in the game - wondering why Lathum is after Alan, and why whether Fouts is mummy or avatar matters. I think the easiest play here is to verify whether Lathum is being straight or not.

1:52pm
Dubb has an opportunity here to maybe play the bad guys a little bit, to make the claim that he scanned such and such a line, and save his use for later in the day, or even a different day. There's actually a lot of different tricky things he can do here.

2:21pm
This is what I would do were I in dubb's shoes: I would say I had scanned Lathum and he came up clean. Then I'd wait to see what he says, when he feels safe, til even post-lynch perhaps, and actually scan him.

2:23pm
Oh here comes FOUTS!!!!

Saturday, 7:00am
Without knowing what happened last night - I suspect that Lathum is the prophecy, and that Fouts is his version of avatar/mummy. What Lathum's victory conditions are I have no idea. I would have voted for somebody other than those two, myself. Going to check the thread now to see what happened.

7:52am
I think it's somewhat wolfish to suggest that you're a potential target for the necs in a given night. Barkeep, AlanT have been playing that game.

11:59am
I don't trust either AlanT or Barkeep after AlanT hints that he knows BK's role. Very odd.

Sunday, 8:03am
So AlanT was bad - after their dialogue yesterday I'd be voting for BK today, I think. Lathum, who knows - I'm 99% sure that he's prophecy, and not head nec. Head nec probably wouldn't finger another nec.

3:12pm
Interesting theory from BK that Blade was the agent of his own destruction. I hadn't thought about it, but it makes more sense than anything else. Also, I like how the number of necs keeps going up. First we thought four, then probably 5, now we're thinking there's 4 or 5 LEFT??

Monday, 11:19am
Early votes for Schmidty. Fairly typical, at some point there's always a bandwagon on Schmidty. I don't see anything really troubling in his game so far.

11:40am
I buy Schmidty's reveal, barring somebody who can contradict it.

1:15pm
And Schmidty votes Chubby, probably my #1 suspect at the moment.

4:10pm
I think it's funny that people are hung up on voting patterns in this game, when there's no evidence whatsoever that any of the bad guys know who the other bad guys are.

4:46pm
path confirms that Schmidty is most likely ruling class. I don't really know how this neccesarily makes him good, though.

7:52pm
Just before lynch, the votes are all over the place. I think Schmidty (in the lead) is probably good. My vote would likely go to chubby. He's played an odd game, even considering it's his first.

8:10pm
Chubby, head nec! Wow. Did NOT see that coming. So, he's the one who silenced me.

11:44pm
Qwik seems to have shot to the top of the list for a number of people. I don't get it.


Tuesday, 8:00am
BK, a fanatic? Two fanatics? What kind of crazy ass game is this???

9:00am
Lathum votes king, then switches to Qwik. Qwikshot comes back with a reveal that Chubby and Lathum were talking. Intriguing.

3:13pm
Vince does a nice job of poking holes in Qwik's story. I'd be happier if Lathum came out and denied talking to Chub, but Qwik is not very convincing right now. Even supposing he's bad, though, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless Lathum KNOWS he's bad - which it doesn't appear he does.

4:30pm
Lathum insists king is 100% bad. I don't know he knows that. What kind of role does he have, anyway.

4:43pm
I think my vote would be on king today, for reasons outlined by dubb. His thinking is the same as mine - if Lathum was talking to Chubb, well, that's no reason not to accept his gifts.

4:55pm
Chubby and Qwik, brothers? I don't think so.

8:12pm
Lathum was the prophecy, saldana dies of illness. I don't know what to make of all this. Qwik's story doesn't hold up to analysis, and Lathum wanted king lynched.

[Abe Sargent]

The funny thing is Anxiety both won and lost the game for the Egyptians with protecting Lathum :)


That IS funny.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

Great game, hoops. I'll join in the general acclaim for Lathum, especially after I chose him for the tiebreak. Your reaction I think really solidified you as a good guy in everyone remaining except Qwik's mind......as is shown by Anxiety guarding you last night.

Hoops was kind enough to tell me after I died that I had made the right call and it was interesting yesterday to root for the bad guy to try and kill off the other bad guy last night.

Hoops, so the scarab I used night 2 was blessed? What does that mean, since there was no obvious effect when I used it?


Actually, in teh PM I sent hoopsguy last night, I said, "I still don;t trust him, but let's see what happens when I guarde Lathum." Soemtimes when I guard people, I can follow them, like I did BK when he went to off AlanT. The following day I knew he was a good guy nad that wa when I said he was the highest on my trust list.

-Anxiety

[hoopsguy]

Anxiety, while I was willing to give you that kind of information on other players, I wasn't willing to let you know about the wolves being out and about - game balance issue, mainly. In King's description from the night you guarded him, I let him know that you were watching him and that he cast a disorientation spell on you to elude you so he could go kill.

[saldana]

On the topic of balance - what number of necromancers would have made for better balance, given that they didn't start off knowing each other?

In terms of Lathum's role, would it have been better if he started the game as the Prophecy instead of learning on Day 4 that he was the prophecy? That is why he passed Dubb's scan, because the quote was from Day 3 and he believed what he typed at the time he typed it. Having him become the evil/solo prophecy on Day 4 when one necro was already dead and another one was headed to the gallows made it easier for him to adopt a strategy of eliminating the necros to achieve his victory condition.


i think the number of necromancers was fine in terms of balance, i had a similar number of players in star wars and went with the same number of sith acolytes+sith master.

i think lathum was entirely too powerful, and although he did do a good job of playing the role, it would have been almost impossible for him not to win. between the ability to talk to someone on each side, which means he could deceive both factions, plus all of everyone elses powers, plus the 3 scans a night, the need to be killed by both teams (and no way for us to know that), AND the ability to do as many things as he wanted each night! no offense hoops, but it was too much...i can see maybe 3 scans on the first night to bring him up to par with the mystic, but 3 scans everynight totally skewed the game in his favor.....it was basically like playing a deathmatch against someone with God-mode and Unlimited ammo and all weapons cheats enabled.

[saldana]

9:14am
I wonder why Barkeep was passed the scarab? He certainly wasn't high on my trust list.

back on day 1 or 2, barkeep and coffee warlord had an exchange about how badly they wanted to piss on in the dead skulls of the necromancers....i read this to mean they were both elite guards, possibly brothers, or both fanatics...either way, i was sure they were good guys, and since BK was so vocal early, i guessed he would be an early target, so i decided to try and protect him.

i was a bit miffed that he came out and said he got it before i got on the board, since that took away my ability to annouce who i gave it to as a means of clearing myself.

[Alan T]

Interesting notes cronin.

My downfall was actually where I probably was helping the good guys the most.

I think I helped the good guys a ton in this game.. I pushed people towards Bulletspongue (Im guessing enough to make blade scan him that night and push him the next day). I pushed folks against Lathum.. and I agreed with Cronin's notes, I totally assumed Fouts was the mummy and didn't expect him having anything to do with Lathum. Once i realized that they were tied together, it was too late for me to switch gears so I had to press the "Lathum is the prophecy, killed our seer and does not mean us good card"

When I was saying I felt I was the likely night kill because of Lathum wanting revenge, I mainly knew I had become enough of a suspect that -someone- would come after me.. so at that point I was hoping either someone on my team would find me since I had zero luck finding anyone myself, or worst case the EG protected me against something if Lathum had some axe to grind. Knowing what I do now, Lathum was content handing me on a plate for the lynch votes. He did NOT need me, and it bought him the trust he needed. The entire time I was trying to urge people to vote Lathum, he ended up getting the footing he needed.

My stating I was 85% sure I knew Barkeep's role, ended up being completely wrong. I honestly reread almost the entire thread at that point. some 1600-1800 posts or so. I found where early days 1, 2, 3 where Barkeep urged people to be patient with Tanglewood.. he didnt feel he was playing under the radar, etc. He did not give the same luxury to Bek however. Later on, both of them tossed out roughly the same ideas/opinions on the same day and both swapped votes on the Fouts thing roughly at the same time. Barkeep also defended Tangle when I brough up some things he felt fishy.. I thought for sure they were brothers... I was completely wrong.

I honestly do not know what my game was going to be past the whole Lathum confrontation. I was leaning towards Vince and King being bad and was checking vince the night I died.. King was next. I was completely frustrated at my lack of ability to contribute for my team. I was almost a non factor.

[hoopsguy]

I can definitely see the argument that he was too powerful, but he came pretty close to not winning.

Night 7 - if necros attack him instead of Path, Lathum dies
Night 8 - if Anxiety doesn't guard him, Lathum dies

What was interesting to me about talking to both factions is that Chubby was big-time suspicious of him and Barkeep trusted him. Chubby didn't give up the other necros to him, but told the other necros all about their conversations.

I think Lathum would have had even more trouble if:
A.) Schmidty gets one more vote, so Chubby is around for an extra day
B.) Path ends up having to use his duke ability to go after Lathum instead of a tie-break. He would have known that he kept his duke ability, even though Lathum was not lynched, and thus know he was anti-Egyptian.

Just bringing these topics up to demonstrate that although Lathum's victory seemed very complete from Day 4-8, there were a number of small breaks he caught along the way that helped him get there.

[Alan T]

I can definitely see the argument that he was too powerful, but he came pretty close to not winning.

Night 7 - if necros attack him instead of Path, Lathum dies
Night 8 - if Anxiety doesn't guard him, Lathum dies

What was interesting to me about talking to both factions is that Chubby was big-time suspicious of him and Barkeep trusted him. Chubby didn't give up the other necros to him, but told the other necros all about their conversations.

I think Lathum would have had even more trouble if:
A.) Schmidty gets one more vote, so Chubby is around for an extra day
B.) Path ends up having to use his duke ability to go after Lathum instead of a tie-break. He would have known that he kept his duke ability, even though Lathum was not lynched, and thus know he was anti-Egyptian.

Just bringing these topics up to demonstrate that although Lathum's victory seemed very complete from Day 4-8, there were a number of small breaks he caught along the way that helped him get there.



I agree with hoops here. There were plenty of people who didnt want Lathum around, but none of those were the egyptians it seems :)

[Chubby]

I can definitely see the argument that he was too powerful, but he came pretty close to not winning.

Night 7 - if necros attack him instead of Path, Lathum dies
Night 8 - if Anxiety doesn't guard him, Lathum dies

What was interesting to me about talking to both factions is that Chubby was big-time suspicious of him and Barkeep trusted him. Chubby didn't give up the other necros to him, but told the other necros all about their conversations.

I think Lathum would have had even more trouble if:
A.) Schmidty gets one more vote, so Chubby is around for an extra day
B.) Path ends up having to use his duke ability to go after Lathum instead of a tie-break. He would have known that he kept his duke ability, even though Lathum was not lynched, and thus know he was anti-Egyptian.

Just bringing these topics up to demonstrate that although Lathum's victory seemed very complete from Day 4-8, there were a number of small breaks he caught along the way that helped him get there.

We're not saying it was impossible for him to lose, just that a whole ton of stuff would have to break a certain way for it to happen and with him being able to play both sides that is VERY unlikely.

As far as me not trusting him, when I read the roles in the very first post it just screamed "Role with it's own winning conditions". I don't know, probably knowing he raised Fouts (since I didn't) before he even PM'd contributed to my complete distrust. I figured I had to work with him a day before we could set our plan in motion (later that night) to frame him, which worked (he did get voted to be lynched). I'm sure if Qwik and king knew that both sides had to try and kill him (egyptians already had) they would have gunned for him.

Of course, I'm sure his powers would have transferred to SnDvls while mine sure didn't (despite the rules saying mine were possible to transfer).

So big deal, even if they kill Lathum SnDvls then is going to win as the new Prophecy. Again, very fun game but it just seemed it was setup for the Prophecy to win and for the necs to have to basically get VERY lucky to even have a shot (as killing Lathum was no guarentee at winning since basically everyone knew the last 2 wolves)

[hoopsguy]

Lathum's powers would not have transferred - SnDvls would have been playing as an ordinary Egyptian at that point with a solo victory condition and no longer being a part of the Egyptian victory conditions. And if SnDvls had died prior to Lathum dying then the Prophecy role was elimininated from the game. Just didn't go down that way.

In terms of the Head Necro power transferring, I could sit here and argue that the percentage that transferred was zero :) But I was initially intending to start the game with five players (only one Initiate) but added a 2nd Initiate fairly late in the process. At that point, I figured that the numbers were sufficient to not allow for a transfer of power.

If I had implemented that mechanic, it would have involved an Initiate studying for two days (no search, no crafting) to get the powers. I'm not sure that would have helped King, given the point in the game where you died.

[Chubby]

And I know someone mentioned earlier they wanted to know why there was no mummy...

umm because I spent all my time searching for other necros (with the solo kill attempt on path to try and get the helmet and throw a wrench into things).

[saldana]

so hoops, are you gonna tell path, or should I....:)

[hoopsguy]

Saldana, feel free.

A GM oops! forthcoming ...

[tanglewood]

Good game everyone, very much enjoyed it. Well played Lathum and Chubby I think for a first time player you did pretty well as the Head Necro, especially your not trusting of Lathum.

[st.cronin]

It was Chubby that silenced me, right?

I think the game setup was really tough for the necs. But they also got phenomenally unlucky.

[Abe Sargent]

Anxiety, while I was willing to give you that kind of information on other players, I wasn't willing to let you know about the wolves being out and about - game balance issue, mainly. In King's description from the night you guarded him, I let him know that you were watching him and that he cast a disorientation spell on you to elude you so he could go kill.


I suspected something like that for king. Wasn't sure about Qwik though.

[hoopsguy]

Cronin, confirmed that it was Chubby who silenced you. He was the only one with that ability. And, at the time, he didn't have absolute knowledge about you being Egyptian/necro but he played a hunch.

[Vince]

I agree with hoops here. There were plenty of people who didnt want Lathum around, but none of those were the egyptians it seems :)

So it seems that my random conspiracy theory about you and bullet was correct, but for all the wrong reasons :)

[Vince]

Wow, I just realize that if Anxiety doesn't guard Lathum on the last night, the Villagers win a complete victory. Crazy.

[Abe Sargent]

Wow, I just realize that if Anxiety doesn't guard Lathum on the last night, the Villagers win a complete victory. Crazy.


Read: If the Necs had gone after Lathum instead of path two nights ago, we would have won. Note that because they did NOT go after Lathum when I left him exposed, I was slightly more inclined to beleive him.

-Anxiety

[Barkeep49]

i was a bit miffed that he came out and said he got it before i got on the board, since that took away my ability to annouce who i gave it to as a means of clearing myself.
That's the thing that upsets me. I've learned then when things happen at night it's almost always in favor of the good guys to know it. So when I get the scarab I come forward with it right away. But when Lathum starts PM'ing me? I keep it a secret. That's what really gets me. And I shouldn't have been so concerned about using the scarab when I did. While it made sense at the time, how I played that, I never should have used it that night. Not my best game, though I did peg Anxiety and CW's role (with his help).

[Abe Sargent]

To be fair, I was hinting hard that I was the EG from the early game.

-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

First game where I didn;t cast a vote for Barkeep.

[Barkeep49]

To be fair, I was hinting hard that I was the EG from the early game.

-Anxiety
You were indeed. Which was obviously a good strategy since you won/lost us the game on Night 7?8?

[path12]

so hoops, are you gonna tell path, or should I....:)

Oh, man. I'm already dead for Pharaoh's sake! What'd I do.....

[Blade6119]

I think I helped the good guys a ton in this game.. I pushed people towards Bulletspongue (Im guessing enough to make blade scan him that night and push him the next day).
I never scanned bullet..i scanned

Barkeep
Dubb
Vince
(in that order)...i was debating you or lathum night 4, had qwik already figured out too...lathum just beat me to it.

As for lathum, i died like half an hour after our big spat...i dont see why everyone figured i was pre-poisoned on day 2 when i wasnt making any noise.

Overall, a great game to lathum and i suppose to the egyptians for a partial victory..

[Blade6119]

Wow, I just realize that if Anxiety doesn't guard Lathum on the last night, the Villagers win a complete victory. Crazy.
Anixety, why did you? He had already given you the rest of the necros...what about him did you think you needed to save?

[Alan T]

I never scanned bullet..i scanned

Barkeep
Dubb
Vince
(in that order)...i was debating you or lathum night 4, had qwik already figured out too...lathum just beat me to it.

As for lathum, i died like half an hour after our big spat...i dont see why everyone figured i was pre-poisoned on day 2 when i wasnt making any noise.

Overall, a great game to lathum and i suppose to the egyptians for a partial victory..


What made you push so hard for bullet the day after I started? just saw the same things I did then?

Its funny, I actually wasn't doing anything wolfish with what you had said either.. I honestly thought you had scanned Barkeep and dubbs from what you said and was pretty sure you hadnt scanned Lathum. Knowing you from games we had been in, I just saw that in what you posted.

Not sure how that got me killed though! Im guessing Lathum told Barkeep I was a necro and he figured I was the bigger threat.

[Barkeep49]

Actually, as I understand it, if Anxiety doesn't guard Lathum last night the Villagers have a complete defeat.

[Barkeep49]

Not sure how that got me killed though! Im guessing Lathum told Barkeep I was a necro and he figured I was the bigger threat.
Yup. Lathum insisted you were a bad guy. I didn't fully trust him, at that point, and thus a big reason why I thought I was going to die (thought he was setting two good guys agianst each other for a double knockout just like CW and Pass). But I figured if that happened Lathum gets lynched when our dead bodies show up so it was worth the risk.

[Blade6119]

What made you push so hard for bullet the day after I started? just saw the same things I did then?

Its funny, I actually wasn't doing anything wolfish with what you had said either.. I honestly thought you had scanned Barkeep and dubbs from what you said and was pretty sure you hadnt scanned Lathum. Knowing you from games we had been in, I just saw that in what you posted.

Not sure how that got me killed though! Im guessing Lathum told Barkeep I was a necro and he figured I was the bigger threat.
Bullet was just someone i got suspicious of, i made my normal off the wall accusation, and his defense was soo crazy i knew...qwik i knew becuase he was blindly following me, and when does that ever happen(and we now know he scanned me the night before).

You answered your own question. You were playing all smart villager and helpful...i see that from you and i worry. My worries turned out right.

[Alan T]

Bullet was just someone i got suspicious of, i made my normal off the wall accusation, and his defense was soo crazy i knew...qwik i knew becuase he was blindly following me, and when does that ever happen(and we now know he scanned me the night before).

You answered your own question. You were playing all smart villager and helpful...i see that from you and i worry. My worries turned out right.

The problem is I don't think anyone even remembers what my normal non-bad person villager game is like :) Not sure I even remember! I honestly played this one the same way that I think I would have if I was a good guy.. All of my accusations and such were just like I would have done if I was a good guy... I just was buying time till I made some connection with someone on my team.. I figured I had to some day.. right? RIGHT??? :)

[path12]

Actually, as I understand it, if Anxiety doesn't guard Lathum last night the Villagers have a complete defeat.

The villagers? I thought hoops said if Qwik would have attacked Lathum he would have died?

[hoopsguy]

If Anxiety doesn't guard Lathum last night, then Qwikshot gets the dice roll and successfully kills him. Lathum is out of the game, but the Prophecy (minus all powers) transfers to a new body that was selected on Day 4 when he chose the dark side - SnDvls. This is basically the equivalent of a werewolf conversion, except that SnDvls would not have had night kills. Lathum got exceptional bad guy power, SnDvls would have had basically zero bad guy power.

Day 9 probably involves lynching Qwikshot. I would have given Schmidty, based on his role as High Priest, knowledge that the Prophecy had been able to transfer his form somewhere.

There were no night kills left in the game, so we would have had a number of days where people tried to determine where Lathum would have transferred, based on the knowledge granted to Schmidty.

But the chances for a total Egyptian victory, if it went down this path, were pretty good.

[Barkeep49]

The villagers? I thought hoops said if Qwik would have attacked Lathum he would have died?
Oh my bad. You're right. That was if Qwik lives.

[Abe Sargent]

Anixety, why did you? He had already given you the rest of the necros...what about him did you think you needed to save?


I sometimes got info on someone by guarding them. Plus, as I mentioned before, I gave the Necs a night to kill Lathum if they REALLY thought he was dangerous and they took the night off, killing path instead. When they killed path, instead of Lathum, it put everything into doubt for me. Qwik was saying that Lathum wanted to overthrow path, yet it was necs, not Lathum, that killed path.


-Anxiety

[kingfc22]

This was a tough and frustrating game as a bad guy. Not knowing who to vote for and not having a very good way to kill solo hurt. When I finally found Qwik we were able to clear a bunch of people with our combined scans and we went after Alan and Anxiety. We found out anxiety could walk around and I watched Alan get killed by barkeep. That sucked.

That same night, Chubby found us and he was lynched during the day. :(
If we could have saved Chubby for one day we could of done a lot more. We would have done a kill and a disease. We would have then gone after Lathum during the day and then if he was lynched (we knew he could duke), we would raise a mummy that night.

But it didn't work that way. Also the 5 or 6 nights without a kill destroyed any chance of us winning because you guys were able to build a large COT.

[Barkeep49]

And I'm likely shooting myself in the foot saying this, as I will be a wolf next game now, but please notice that it's reveals, once again, that really allow for circles of trust.

[Abe Sargent]

I didn;t want to reveal myself and get diseased.

-Anxiety

[hoopsguy]

Here is a question, especially for the necros but input wanted from anyone:

I had initially tried to set up the percentages for the search/kill decision to be a pretty hard one - that each was just about as good an option. Given that every one of the necros opted to search on Night 1 and all but one searched on nights 2 and 3, it seems like I probably needed to make the Kill option a little more attractive.

What percentages for the kill would have made the option of solo kill an equally good option? Or other conditions surrounding the kill? If someone decides to run a game with a similar mechanic, I would love for them to have some of the feedback from this game on these conditions.

[hoopsguy]

Barkeep, that is SOOO wolfish to ask for reveals :)

[Abe Sargent]

Note, Barkeep, that I would have role revealed if they turned on you and moved to lynch you, because I could be 100% confirmed by path and then you could be 100% confirmed by me.


-Anxiety

[Alan T]

Here is a question, especially for the necros but input wanted from anyone:

I had initially tried to set up the percentages for the search/kill decision to be a pretty hard one - that each was just about as good an option. Given that every one of the necros opted to search on Night 1 and all but one searched on nights 2 and 3, it seems like I probably needed to make the Kill option a little more attractive.

What percentages for the kill would have made the option of solo kill an equally good option? Or other conditions surrounding the kill? If someone decides to run a game with a similar mechanic, I would love for them to have some of the feedback from this game on these conditions.


The first 2-3 days I wasn't worried about killing. Usually in most cases the good guys do a good enough job for you. I was mainly looking to try to set up communications and develop some plan/strategy and more importantly try to find out who not to go after. It would have to have been pretty much a better chance of not killing someone on my team to have done that option I think.

[st.cronin]

Here is a question, especially for the necros but input wanted from anyone:

I had initially tried to set up the percentages for the search/kill decision to be a pretty hard one - that each was just about as good an option. Given that every one of the necros opted to search on Night 1 and all but one searched on nights 2 and 3, it seems like I probably needed to make the Kill option a little more attractive.

What percentages for the kill would have made the option of solo kill an equally good option? Or other conditions surrounding the kill? If someone decides to run a game with a similar mechanic, I would love for them to have some of the feedback from this game on these conditions.


I thought the balance was pretty good. I would have gone scan, kill, scan, kill, until I found a friend.

[Barkeep49]

Well I, personally, think the percentages, if anything, were already favorable for the necros. As it stood there was, on night 1, a 25% chance of randomly choosing another necro. Thus there was a 75% chance of choosing a human. Thus, if a necro had decided to go for a kill, the end results would look like this:
37.5% chance of killing a villager (75% chance of finding a villager; 50/50 chance of killing that villager)
37.5% chance of failing to kill a villager (75% chance of finding a villager; 50/50 chance of killing that villager)
18.75% chance of finding a necro and meeting each other
(25% chance of finding a necro, 75% chance that they recognize each other)
3.125% chance of finding a necro, attacking them, failing to kill them, but having the other person know that the person who attacked them was a necro, allowing them to connect the next night (25% chance of finding a necro, 25% chance of not realizing they were a necro, 50% chance of failing to kill them)
3.125% chance of killing a necro

It seems to me that the risk of killing a necro is low enough, and since only 3.125% points of finding another necro are sacrificed, with the aditional 37.5% chance of killing a villager, that killing every night instead of searching is the way to go in the current rule set.

[Fouts]

Great game, hoops. The prophecy role reminded me of the creature/wizard game where BrianD was the invulnerable wizard.

FWIW, I had no idea that Lathum was the prophecy. By reading the rules, it seemed obvious to me that only a good guy could summon an avatar. If Lathum had told me he was favored by the gods, I wouldn't have voted for myself and stayed around a couple more days. I'm sure he would rather keep favor of the gods, than have me around stirring up trouble. Looks like you guys had the right idea going after him.

Still sucks to be told you are in the game and log in to find 8 votes against you before you say anything. People like to dogpile even without a good reason.

After the game, I always find out that you guys are a lot better players than I give you credit for during the game. Well done.

[Barkeep49]

Fouts: You did an amazing job coming in. Hats off to you. I mean if you hadn't voted for yourself you'd have effectively closed an 8 vote deficit. Just a great job of persuasion.

[Fouts]

Fouts: You did an amazing job coming in. Hats off to you. I mean if you hadn't voted for yourself you'd have effectively closed an 8 vote deficit. Just a great job of persuasion.

Thanks, although I won't take credit for persuading people about Lathum. You guys had it right about him. If I weren't limited to a 3 day life, I wouldn't have voted for myself. I didn't see myself as a player, but more as a pawn for the good guys (including Lathum at the time).

[saldana]

Oh, man. I'm already dead for Pharaoh's sake! What'd I do.....

you didnt do anything, hoops forgot a small detail that would have saved your life....when i found out i was diseased, i asked him exactly when i would die, and if i would have enough time to craft another scarab. he told me i would die at the end of day 7, and since crafting was my day action, i would be able to make one. i asked what would happen to it if i made it, and he said it would pass to the pharaoh when i died....so, i made a scarab knowing i would be dead at the end of the day and you would get it with my possessions when i died.

The problem was, he forgot to tell you that I had it and it was now yours, and you got killed that night....so you could possibly have used it right away and not gotten whacked.

[Abe Sargent]

Ouch.

[path12]

so, i made a scarab knowing i would be dead at the end of the day and you would get it with my possessions when i died.

The problem was, he forgot to tell you that I had it and it was now yours, and you got killed that night....so you could possibly have used it right away and not gotten whacked.

I would have used it, too. Wonder if I had still been alive if Anxiety would have protected me last night.......

[hoopsguy]

Yep, I didn't realize I had missed it until results were already posted. Sorry to all parties involved for the screw-up.

[Vince]

Anxiety, I hope you don't think I'm accusing you of anything with my previous post (about how we win if you don't do what you did)...that's not it at all. Just an interesting observation.

Alan -- I'm curious if on/around day 2 you had suspicions of bulletsponge being a necromancer. I was nearly certain for the majority of that day that your use of the word 'bulletproof' was intentional.

The more I think about it, the more I like the game. Though at first blush I thought Lathum was too powerful, he did have a LOT of ground to make up. My men of the match:

Honorable Mention: Dubb -- He was right on the money, played true to his role, and did everything he could to help out the good guys from beginning to end.

Third Star: Fouts -- Coming into a game that was already three days and over a thousand posts old, Fouts had 8 votes against him before he made a single post. He did a fantastic job of playing his role to the hilt, and nearly pulled off the comeback of the century.

Second Star: Chubby -- This was seriously your first game? My lord. He was not only the baddest of the bad guys (well, the KNOWN bad guys), but he had nary a whit of real suspicion until day four or five, and there really was no one who seriously thought he was the head necromancer until AFTER it was revealed by hoopsguy. Phenomenal first effort.

First Star: Lathum -- What can I say that hasn't been said already? He was able to play both sides of against each other, garnering the trust of the good guys, while eliminating the bad guys fast enough so that they couldn't eliminate him. Truly an epic performance.

[Alan T]

Anxiety, I hope you don't think I'm accusing you of anything with my previous post (about how we win if you don't do what you did)...that's not it at all. Just an interesting observation.

Alan -- I'm curious if on/around day 2 you had suspicions of bulletsponge being a necromancer. I was nearly certain for the majority of that day that your use of the word 'bulletproof' was intentional.

The more I think about it, the more I like the game. Though at first blush I thought Lathum was too powerful, he did have a LOT of ground to make up. My men of the match:

Honorable Mention: Dubb -- He was right on the money, played true to his role, and did everything he could to help out the good guys from beginning to end.

Third Star: Fouts -- Coming into a game that was already three days and over a thousand posts old, Fouts had 8 votes against him before he made a single post. He did a fantastic job of playing his role to the hilt, and nearly pulled off the comeback of the century.

Second Star: Chubby -- This was seriously your first game? My lord. He was not only the baddest of the bad guys (well, the KNOWN bad guys), but he had nary a whit of real suspicion until day four or five, and there really was no one who seriously thought he was the head necromancer until AFTER it was revealed by hoopsguy. Phenomenal first effort.

First Star: Lathum -- What can I say that hasn't been said already? He was able to play both sides of against each other, garnering the trust of the good guys, while eliminating the bad guys fast enough so that they couldn't eliminate him. Truly an epic performance.

not intentional at all. First real feels for bullet that I had was when I first started accusing him of being an inconsistant new player (ie: not knowing basic game rules but knowing complex bad guy strategies)

[hoopsguy]

In addition to the guys mentioned by Vince, I also thought that Tyrith played a very good game as an ordinary villager. He was also right on the money with his play the whole way through despite not having any role knowledge to help him out.

[st.cronin]

I agree about Tyrith. He's quickly become one of the top ww players on this board.

[path12]

I agree about Tyrith. He's quickly become one of the top ww players on this board.

Couldn't agree more.

[Abe Sargent]

MEGANECROBUMP