Compile a list of Known Attributes

[backbreaker]

From 1up article 06/18/07

Mr. 3rd down (completes 3rd down plays)
Break Away Burst (dodges defenders using an extra burst of energy)
Leadership Bonus (commands a team's attention)
Deception (pump fakes)

From LetterZ impression 06/15/07

Coffin Corner Self explanatory
Route God (exceptional at running routes)
Tough As Nails (Gets better as he gets hit)
Signal Stealer (QB's ability to read defense)

Add on if you know more.

[LBzrule]

Quote: Originally Posted by backbreaker

From 1up article 06/18/07 Mr. 3rd down (completes 3rd down plays) Break Away Burst (dodges defenders using an extra burst of energy) Leadership Bonus (commands a team's attention) Deception (pump fakes) From LetterZ impression 06/15/07 Coffin Corner Self explanatory Route God (exceptional at running routes) Tough As Nails (Gets better as he gets hit) Signal Stealer (QB's ability to read defense) Add on if you know more.

Loose Ball Magnet (GI article)
Scrambler (ugo article)
Clutch (ugo article)
Laser arm (ugo article)
Quick Feet
Scissor Kick

[Trevytrev11]

I understand the attributes, but am a bit confused of how exactly they will work in conjuction with the players abilities.

Say you are comparing Barry Sanders and Walter Payton. What is going to determine the difference in:
-their speed
-their ability to pass block
-break a tackle
-stiff arm
-juke
-avoid injury
-run the right route on a pass play
-catch a pass
-avoid fatigue
-etc.

(unless they are assigned an attribute for each category, it seems they may end up being indentical in a lot of categories)

From what I've read, their doesn't seem to be an attribute for each possible category and even if there is, what seperates the speed of two guys that are close in speed, but not equal? What seperates a guy who runs a 4.3 40 and a guy who runs a 4.4 or 4.5 40? If they are given some sort of "fleet feet" attribute, then does that mean they run at the exact same speed? If two players have the same attribute, does that make them equal in that ability or are there different levels of an attribute?

Say there is a kicking power attribute. Would two players with the same attribute have the exact same ability to kick a FG from a given point on the field?

What about players that don't have a given attribute, does that mean they are equal as well? Say you have to WR's who don't have "Mr. 3rd Down" attributes. Do they both then, by default, have the exact same ability (or inabliity) to make plays on 3rd down?

I don't mind the change and am excited to see how it works, but my concren with out ratings, is that non-described abilities will all default to the same rating, making a lot of players the exact same in a lot of different abilities, which are different in real life and they only stand out when their ability is being used.

Hopefully that makes sense.

On More example:
Elway, Marino and Young

Elway completed 56.9% of his passes, Marino 59.4% and Young 64.3%.

Is there going to be a seperate rating for each that will impact their respective accuracy? If not, will they share indentical accuracy?

What about their rushing ability? Marino 0.4 yds/game, Elway 14.5 and Yong 25 yds/game. Do Elway and Young both get some sort of scramble ability? And if so, what about a guy like Cunninham? What seperates the three of them?

[stantencza]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trevytrev11

I understand the attributes, but am a bit confused of how exactly they will work in conjuction with the players abilities. Say you are comparing Barry Sanders and Walter Payton. What is going to determine the difference in: -their speed -their ability to pass block -break a tackle -stiff arm -juke -avoid injury -run the right route -catch a pass -avoid fatigue -etc. From what I've read, their doesn't seem to be an attribute for each possible category and even if there is, what seperates the speed of two guys that are close in speed, but not equal? What seperates a guy who runs a 4.3 40 and a guy who runs a 4.4 or 4.5 40? What about players that don't have a given attribute, does that mean they are equal as well? Say you have to WR's who don't have "Mr. 3rd Down" attributes. Do they both then, by default, have the exact same ability to make plays on 3rd down? If two players have the same attribute, does that make them equal in that ability or are there different levels of an attribute? Say there is a kicking power attribute. Would two players with the same attribute have the exact same ability to kick a FG from a given point on the field? I don't mind the change, but my concren with out ratings, is that non-described abilities will all default to the same rating, making a lot of players stand out in a lot of different abilities, which are different in real life. Hopefully that makes sense.

Nobody quite seems to know exactly how the ratings system will actually work. What you're arguing makes sense, however.

[fatman242]

Quote: Originally Posted by LBzrule

Loose Ball Magnet (GI article) Scrambler (ugo article) Clutch (ugo article) Laser arm (ugo article) Quick Feet Scissor Kick

all attributes aren't created equal either. If I was to create a player, I could make him broze but give him "Break Away Burst" instead of a throw-away one like "loose ball magnet". In other words making effective broze players without wasting abilities on rare situations/.

[Trevytrev11]

Quote: Originally Posted by fatman242

all attributes aren't created equal either. If I was to create a player, I could make him broze but give him "Break Away Burst" instead of a throw-away one like "loose ball magnet". In other words making effective broze players without wasting abilities on rare situations/.

Yeah, but what if you want to make a guy who is extremely fast, but who doesn't posess great hands? Does making a guy gold improve every ability and force him to have good hands?

Like you said, no one is quite sure and I guess it will be a wait and see approach, but from first impressions, it seems like this either has to be extremely well thought out or could become a bit of a mess.

[fatman242]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trevytrev11

Yeah, but what if you want to make a guy who is extremely fast, but who doesn't posess great hands? Does making a guy gold improve every ability and force him to have good hands? Like you said, no one is quite sure and I guess it will be a wait and see approach, but from first impressions, it seems like this either has to be extremely well thought out or could become a bit of a mess.

I was thinking that too, but the people who played it for a while grew to like the new system better than the old numbers one - even some podcast guy who is bias towards madden.

It could go in a few different directions too - like others have mentioned like yourself, are all wide recievers w/o a special attribute equal speed? One podcaster mentioned that elway has 6 or so special abilities etc. I guess gold get ~6 and broze probably like 2 or 3 or whatever, so I'm guessing there will be more generic ones directed towards 'speed', but will they be scaled>??

I mean you would think 'rocket' ismail would be faster sans special attributes than other wr's

[Trevytrev11]

Quote: Originally Posted by fatman242

I mean you would think 'rocket' ismail would be faster sans special attributes than other wr's

I really hope he is. Attributes are great, but players differentiate themselves from others by more than just a handful of basic attributes.

My biggest fear with this system is that Player A is Player B is Player C with maybe one different ability and the players begin to feel like "specialized clones" instead of individual players.

While I'm not convinced this is a better or worse system, to me the logic behind numbers made sense to me. The problem may have been that they weren't used effectivly.

A number for speed makes sense if based on some sort scale. A 99 Speed is a 4.2 40, a 90 Speed is a 4.3 40, a 80 Speed is a 4.4 40, etc. And every fraction of a second is somewhere in between. The new system feels like "Gold Speedster" is one speed, "Silver Speedster" is another and nobody runs in between. So if you had 10 guys racing (5 gold and 5 silver) all 5 golds would finish at the same time, all 5 silver would finish at the same time. The same would happen with 5 99's and 5 90-'s, but at least there is the ability to be slightly slower at a 98 or a 97, which would be the difference of winning a race by a small margin.

And while numbers might not make sense in all categories, I think they make sense in most (running speed, jumping ability, throwing strength or accuracy, etc) as they can be based on some scale that is then programmed into the game to reach results. Maybe I'm just so used to it, that it's all I know. But the logic makes sense. The actual numbers can be based on and scaled to statistics, where as the new one could, but it seems like it's just based on opinions of players (he was clutch in his career, so he gets a blanket "Clutch" rating. And if they are based on stat's, then the scale appears too be much to broad with out enough "inbetween" area where either a player is fast, average or slow and not kind of fast or slightly above average, etc.