Coaching Tendencies Tempo & Defensive Pressure

[GiantYankee]

Quote: Originally Posted by eamuscatuli15

so, i'm getting that these ratings are great for realism but they need to be added to the right roster set? which set is that? is it the one currently being done for the ps3? need a little help in trying to figure out how to implement these changes into my game...

I didn't create these with a specific roster set in mind. I created these using a roster set that was made several seasons ago. I don't remember who made it. I would think that these should work with any roster set because it focuses on the style teams play. I.E. not every team playing fast.

[dnikafoeno]

This is still great! Everyone should add these settings.. may need to be updated a bit a couple new teams are averaging alot of FGA's but nonetheless

[BhamTiger]

I do have a question/concern about this. I edited all of the coach profiles with these settings (took about 1.5 hours to do it, but some music and beer helped get me through). I finished the first season of my open legacy last night and took a look at some stats before I went to bed. A few things concern me:

1. The highest-scoring team in season 1 was Memphis with 72 ppg. The lowest team was I-forget-who with just under 50 ppg. There were a few teams IRL last year that averaged over 80 ppg, so this seems a bit low.

2. The top-scoring player in the nation was some mid-major guy with 22-23 ppg. Again, this seems way low. Usually there is at least one player scoring almost 30 ppg almost every season.

So my question is, is this normal? Was I not supposed to edit the profiles outside of played games? I'm thinking of changing everyone back and switching the profiles before every game I play to get the played game stats, then switching the coach profile back. Is this correct, or am I supposed to live with the low numbers?

[itsbigmike]

Preemptive apology for this being so long.

Damn. Because I don't have 5+ posts (long, long time lurker), I can't post links yet. When I can, I'll post a link to the google doc's with the Tempo values I came up with.

*****

I haven't tested it or even input the tempo changes i just came up with into the game (haven't even turned on CH2k8 for like 4-5 months), but I just came up with some tempo ratings for teams.

What I did was take Ken Pomeroy's (Kenpom.com) tempo numbers (AdjT column) for 2008. Figured the average, the standard deviation and how far above/below each team was to the D1 average. Converted that to the 1-100 scale. Here's the spreadsheet.

I took how far a team was above/below the national mean and then multiplied by 10 and added 50.

Running through some examples: North Carolina averaged 74 possessions per game (per Ken Pomeroy's site linked above) and the national average was 66.9 with a standard deviation of 3.3. So, UNC was 2.0 deviations above average in tempo.

2*10 = 20
20 + 50 = 70

By this method, their tempo rating in the game would be a 70.

Again, i have no idea what results this yields. The top teams were Texas Southern at an 88 tempo rating, VMI at 87 and SE Missouri State at 77. The bottom three were Samford (20), Denver (21), and Delaware St. (22). No one else was under a 25.

Unfortunately, i don't get paid until the end of the week, so i can't access KenPom's numbers until then as he's recently moved to a subscription-based site. My plan is to do all of the ratings available for a coach profile/tendency.

Pressure: Again, it's been a while since I've played the game, but here's what I'm thinking: For things like defensive pressure, I'd use the method above, but what I'm thinking is some combination of:

Turnover% (percentage of defensive possessions a team forced a TO)
Shooting rates against (2P%, 3P%)
Foul Rate

My theory with all of the above is that aggressive defenses (most of which are likely man-to-man) are generally going to cause many more turnovers (and in turn rack up some more fouls than passive defenses).

Crash Boards: again use the same process for tempo only sub in defensive and offensive rebounding percentages. A team like Wisconsin isn't going to grab the same number of rebounds per game as a team like UNC because they aren't playing at the same tempo. For instance, scroll down (was going to post a link to a side-by-side comparison of UNC and Wisconsin but had to remove it) to the Offensive Rebounding part of this comparison. Wisconsin grabbed 9.7 offensive rebounds per game while UNC grabbed 11.4 oRPG. But, look at the line below. Wisconsin rebounded 28.6% of their own misses and UNC grabbed 29%. They were equal offensive rebounding teams, UNC just took more shots and piled up more chances to grab offensive rebounds. (This entire passage applies to things like turnover percentage as well; learn to love tempo-free basketball stats.)

I can use the average offensive/defensive rebounding percentages and the deviation to figure out who crashes the boards hard and in what direction.

Fast break ... this one I'm not entirely sure. Maybe defensive turnover percentage and number of a team's shots taken behind the arc?

Coming up with all of these values should be relatively easy. Just a matter of getting access to the data later in the week.

Again, if they actually work in the game as well as I'd like to think ... I don't know. Still, I think it's a better foundation than what's been proposed in my humble opinion.

[GiantYankee]

Quote: Originally Posted by BhamTiger

I do have a question/concern about this. I edited all of the coach profiles with these settings (took about 1.5 hours to do it, but some music and beer helped get me through). I finished the first season of my open legacy last night and took a look at some stats before I went to bed. A few things concern me: 1. The highest-scoring team in season 1 was Memphis with 72 ppg. The lowest team was I-forget-who with just under 50 ppg. There were a few teams IRL last year that averaged over 80 ppg, so this seems a bit low. 2. The top-scoring player in the nation was some mid-major guy with 22-23 ppg. Again, this seems way low. Usually there is at least one player scoring almost 30 ppg almost every season. So my question is, is this normal? Was I not supposed to edit the profiles outside of played games? I'm thinking of changing everyone back and switching the profiles before every game I play to get the played game stats, then switching the coach profile back. Is this correct, or am I supposed to live with the low numbers?

I never did season long testing. I did hours of testing on a game by game basis. That's where I saw improvement. I haven't updated the newer rosters that I have downloaded ad yet, but hopefully in the next couple of weeks I can and I will run a couple season sims and report back. Did you set sim for 20 mins?

Quote: Originally Posted by itsbigmike

Again, if they actually work in the game as well as I'd like to think ... I don't know. Still, I think it's a better foundation than what's been proposed in my humble opinion.

I honestly can't say what's a better foundation or what's not, but I know that these edits have improved the diversity of play between teams. My main concern was that every team seemed to play the same. Please test your theory and post results. I'm up for anything that improves the game.

[GiantYankee]

Quote: Originally Posted by dnikafoeno

This is still great! Everyone should add these settings.. may need to be updated a bit a couple new teams are averaging alot of FGA's but nonetheless

Thanks for the feedback. I did these back in Jan so I wouldn't be surprised if there are some changes.

[BhamTiger]

Quote: Originally Posted by GiantYankee

I never did season long testing. I did hours of testing on a game by game basis. That's where I saw improvement. I haven't updated the newer rosters that I have downloaded ad yet, but hopefully in the next couple of weeks I can and I will run a couple season sims and report back. Did you set sim for 20 mins?

Yes, I play all games at 20 mins and sim length is also 20 mins.

I went back and added 5 clicks to every team's tempo and defensive pressure. I just couldn't stomach the thought of no teams scoring 80 ppg and no players averaging over 21-22 ppg.

So far in season 2 my team is averaging 73 field goal attempts per game. VMI last year averaged 68-69 field goal attempts per game, so this is not too far off. This is with max offensive tempo, game speed max and player speed at zero. The players still look like they're running in slow motion to me, but I guess I have to compromise somewhere.

I guess I'll also just have to live with fast teams. I hate the slow play style anyway. Wisconsin makes me fall asleep every time they play. My biggest concern now is the low FG%. Most games my team struggles to break 40%. I'm not sure what I can do about that without adjusting sliders. It might just be a result of the game engine being wonky.

[Suntan Superman]

I have my own version of this (I used KenPom as well, and the same generic setup as bigmike), however, I'm still struggling with field goal percentage. I actually love Wisconsin's slow style of play, and have implemented it into almost every team I've coached on the game. While I feel accomplished having coached a team that all year only allowed opponents to shoot 38%, it kind of rings hollow when the national fg% is hovering around 42. I coach mode almost every game, and right now my season by season totals are as follows

0708 W. Illinois 45.2 PPG, 38% FG; 51.1 OPPG, 44%
0809 W. Illinois 51.2 PPG, 42% FG; 50.1 OPPG 42%
0910 W. Illinois 52.2 PPG 44% FG; 49.4 OPPG 38%
1011 W. Illinois 61.4 PPG 48% FG; 51.8 OPPG 33%
1112 W. Illinois 62.9 PPG 48% FG; 50.0 OPPG 31%
1213 W. Illinois 58.7 PPG 42% FG; 37.7 OPPG 23%
1314 W. Illinois 56.1 PPG 48% FG; 41.2 OPPG 28%

Now, to fully appreciate these numbers, I ran a 0 tempo offense, and an 85 pressure defense all of these years, one thing however changed as I changed the defensive pressure settings and that's 3PT%, with the press to high teams hovered around the 18-20% mark in 3PT, however with it down around 15, they were hitting 26-28% 3PT.

I'm not entirely sure how sim stats work with regards to offensive tempo/def pressure, as I once played a game W. Illinois @ Wisconsin, and we lost 85-83, this is with the Badgers at 5 and 50, and me at 0 and 85.