Illustrated guide to why NCAA 10 will be broken yet again...

[Moostache]

Let me start by saying that while I respect the efforts that the NCAA team has made over the years in improving their offering, I simply see too many things that remain unadressed after YEARS of harping on it from myself or many, many other people to really believe that they understand what the problems are.

I am under no illusions that this thread can change that, but I do hope that it offers a bit of illumination to some people, or provides some entertainment to others...I just really, really want to see these issues fixed at some point; and I am not seeing it in the videos released thus far for NCAA Football 10...

Let's start with the obvious...the main default camera angle for gameplay. This simply put has not changed at all since the days of Bill Walsh College Football on the Sega Genesis! It is beyond stale - and while some previous last gen versions allowed you a choice of camera angles, the next-gen 07/08/09 offerings have not. Now, we have heard about Camera Lock for NCAA 10, and that sounds promising...



If I could play the QB position (or maybe the HB position) from the above camera angle, the game may have some more life...especially if I could use these angle in online games...however, I get the feeling that like so many other features over the years, Player Lock is going to be an offline only offering. Maybe I am wrong...maybe we CAN use this feature online and offline to give the game more legs and make it feel less dated and less like "last year's game with new rosters and a few worthless features like SS"...maybe...BUT, even if we CAN do THAT, even if we get 22 unique camera angles (which we won't) and even if those camera angles make the game play totally differently at times (which it won't), we STILL will be left with the following two major game killers:

1) Total lack of negative consequences for running a QB out of the pocket...even if that pocket is formed with better OL-DL animations on the screen!

2) Total lack of real-world physics and physical limitations on player movements when user-controlled (example will be on defense, but this applies universally - QB play, HB running, WR catching, DB coverage. LB gap coverage, etc., etc.).

Let's start with a look at an example of why the OL-DL interaction improvement by itself cannot save NCAA 10.



This formation show the D-line lining up in an obvious pass defense (4th and 8...which is nice to see the -10 for sportsmanship...I hope that goes UP every time someone does it in the same game, so the first time could be -10, the second time could be -20 and so). The ends are clearly showing pass rush by lining up outside the Tackles and the MLB is faking a blitz as well...



At the snap, aside from a lightning quick QB drop, everything looks pretty good...the OT's are engaged in the DE's and the LDE even appears to be "winning" his battle by steering the OT back towards the QB, which becomes clearly evident here:



Now, everything starts to break down and the game is looking an awful lot like NCAA 2009 after this. That DE who is collapsing the pocket on the left side should be reaching for the QB, should be providing the kind of pressure that football coaches crave - he should be disrupting the hell out of this play and forcing the QB to step up and away to the right...but NO! In this example (taken from the EA Sports NCAA Football 10 site itself), the QB is actually able to slowly loop outside of the DE!!! Not only that, but he opens up passing lanes to just about every receiver on the play in the process. Here is what the field view looks like after this nifty little trick (which has been a staple of online play forever):



Instead of forcing the QB to the right, the game simply allows him to escape the pocket to the LEFT! Directly past an oncoming DE! Instead of having to get the ball out through the traffic of the DT's - where a raised hand often results in a batted pass, instead of having to move TOWARDS the opposite DE and putting pressure on the ENTIRE O-line to do their job for a successful play, what we get is simply more of the same...a QB that can magically escape the pocket, has to face no negative consequences for doing so and gets to see open passing lanes in the process.


If this seriously worked, EVERY college coach and EVERY high school coach and EVERY QB coach across the country would be instructing QBs to play this way!!! I defy the developers to find ANY reputable coaches that would purposefully instruct their QB to play like this...to avoid staying in the pocket and staying with his protections in favor of scrambling to the outside as a first choice! This is a fundamental disconnect between the way the game plays (and HAS played for years on end) and the way the sport actually works! This is not news...people have been screaming about this since before their were internet forums dedicated to the game!

[BBkobe87]

I applaud you for this post, this really illustrates that their is still a problem with the pocket logic from EA. That QB should have stood no chance once he was that close to the DE. EA needs to incorporate something where the offensive lineman can not hold their blocks for so long, especially when backing up into their own quarterback. good post

[Moostache]

Apologies for the bad form of replying to my own post...part one was getting very long and I have a dicey internet connection today...

Part One was about: Total lack of negative consequences for running a QB out of the pocket...even if that pocket is formed with better OL-DL animations on the screen!

And with all further apologies to The Rocky Horror Picture Show, Part Two will cover: Total lack of real-world physics and physical limitations on player movements when user-controlled (example will be on defense, but this applies universally - QB play, HB running, WR catching, DB coverage. LB gap coverage, etc., etc.).



This problem has been around almost as long as the QB pocket issues - the god-like abilities of user-controlled players to defy physics and cover more ground than humanly possible. In this example we will follow the MLB for USC, but this applies equally to the use of CB's, SS's, FS's, OLB's, WR's, RB's etc....essentially, this lack of physical momentum creates supermen who destroy the game's suspension of disbelief and make players keenly aware of the fact that it is a videogame.

It also eviscerates the fun-factor of playing against another person and attempting to use strategy to defeat them. If I can convince my opponent to run his MLB out of the play chasing a TE or RB across the formation while a WR comes back on a drag or slant the opposite direction, then I SHOULD get a huge play against him! He should NOT be free to roam the field with impugnity and "stick skills" to take away the offense. And on the flip side, I should NOT be able to use pure stick manipulation on offense to make user catches and scrambles that defy gravity and physics as well!



You can see this phenomenon here...once the LB commits to the left on the snap, he should be in serious trouble trying to cover the center of the field or the RB coming on the angle route - his weight is now against him and his momentum is carrying him away from a sharp change of direction...but of course, that is not what happens in NCAA or previous Madden games. In NCAA 10 footage, you can clearly see the LB simply make the warp-speed adjustment and get into position on the RB....



As if the FIRST warp was not bad enough, as the play progresses, the LB now sees that he is out of position to cover the middle (AGAIN...he should have been there throughout the whole play without running around like a chicken with its head cut off in the first place) and makes a SECOND warp-speed adjustment to come back to the slant route heading across the field...



Clearly, anyone who watches a lot of football, has played any football or coached any football knows that the slant route against a player commited to the wrong direction is DEADLY!!! The Super Bowl TD pass to Larry Fitzgerald that almost won it for the Cardinals is a perfect example...the defense cannot afford to be running around the field in multiple directions unless the player is blitzing...in coverage? HELL NO!!!

In NCAA 10 (as in 07/08/09 and the earlier versions as well), there is no price to pay for guessing wrong! You can take a player and run around in the wrong direction and still recover to make plays that you should have no right even being NEAR the play....



This is simply unacceptable if EA wants to make a more realistic game. Until these core issues are fixed, all the window dressing and animations and blending technology in the world cannot make these games play anything more like real football or anything less like what online and head-to-head players are used to seeing for YEARS....

Hey, the other fact of the matter is that games like Call of Duty or Halo don't ever really change their core experience either...as a distinct minority (a person who wants a more limited and simulation experience in his football games) I may just have to accept the fact that this is what we have...to paraphrase Rummy..."you don't play NCAA with the game you wish you had, you play NCAA with the game you have..."

[berad88]

I think you guys should play the finished product before being so critical on screen shots.

[prowler]

ib4l

[rudyjuly2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Moostache

Let's start with the obvious...the main default camera angle for gameplay. This simply put has not changed at all since the days of Bill Walsh College Football on the Sega Genesis! It is beyond stale - and while some previous last gen versions allowed you a choice of camera angles, the next-gen 07/08/09 offerings have not. Now, we have heard about Camera Lock for NCAA 10, and that sounds promising...

They did overhaul the gameplay camera for NCAA 10. It's been posted numerous times. It zooms out more and to the primary receivers as well.

[Moostache]

Quote: Originally Posted by rudyjuly2

They did overhaul the gameplay camera for NCAA 10. It's been posted numerous times. It zooms out more and to the primary receivers as well.

Zooming out MORE is exactly the wrong direction to go!

I don't want to play from a blimp-style camera angle that makes the player models look even tinier and less detailed!

The point of making my original statement was to illustrate that the existing default camera - which the gameplay footage was taken of in the video on EA's site - is STILL the same as ever, from above and behind the QB as a kind of offensive coordinator in the sky...

[Moostache]

Quote: Originally Posted by berad88

I think you guys should play the finished product before being so critical on screen shots.

The screenshots are illustrations taken from video of actual gameplay...http://ncaafootball.easports.com/media.action