The Biggest Flaw with Recruiting

[ghettoqball]

Quote: Originally Posted by trioptionGator

Accidentally posted this on the Sliders thread, but I've noticed a potential major problem with recruiting: Kickers and punters are basically awful. Basically, if you look at a recruiting class, most of the specialists have C- or lower in KPW and KAC. I simmed through a season quickly and, sure enough, most punters and kickers from the first recruiting class came in with KPW and KAC in the 60s. Or worse. Colorado signed a kicker prospect with 40 KPW and 41 KAC. Why not just put in any random player at kicker at that point? The problem is that these ratings are way, way out of whack with the default rosters. Only 6 kickers and 1 punter had KPW less than 70 on the default rosters. But in dynasty, nearly every recruit is coming in at under 70. Has anyone else noticed this? There is a solution which is just to create a bunch of special teams prospects, but that's a lot of effort. If I'm not imagining this, I hope that EA is aware.

It's weird that you say that, because I signed a 2 star kicker last night who came in at 71 overall. I didn't check to see what his kick power or accuracy were though. I noticed his speed was like 80 though (lol), so i wonder if his kicking does suck and maybe that skewed his rating...

[trioptionGator]

Quote: Originally Posted by ghettoqball

It's weird that you say that, because I signed a 2 star kicker last night who came in at 71 overall. I didn't check to see what his kick power or accuracy were though. I noticed his speed was like 80 though (lol), so i wonder if his kicking does suck and maybe that skewed his rating...

Wow, that is weird. What factors are influencing kicker/punter ratings? Scanning through a random recruiting class, I noticed a kicker with "D" KPW and "D+" KAC rated behind a guy with "C" KPW and KAC. I wonder what's going on here.

[Mtneer08]

Quote: Originally Posted by UnderRatedCoast

My beef isn't with just the speed, it's with the "big 3" so to speak. Speed, Agility, and Acceleration. My rule of thumb for recruiting skill players (at least in the past) is that they needed to be at least B+ in all 3 categories or they aren't being recruited. I've searched the entire recruiting class in both my OD and regular dynasty, and haven't seen a single player who fits that bill. There are guys with A SPD and B+ AGI, but their ACC will be C+. Nobody wants a RB with C+ ACC, no matter how fast his top speed is. The guys look like the old Madden generated draft classes.

Its not so realistic the way you say because of how rare it is in real life to be great at all three of those skill categories. Take Noel Devine for example...his skill type comes around once in every 5-10 years but even he runs a 4.45, yet has some of the best acceleration and agility you will ever see. His speed after 20 yards isn't all that great though.

[BernieWilliams]

I think the biggest problems are the lack of consistency with movement ratings(i.e. 94 speed, 72 agility, 82 acceleration for a top tier runningback) and lack of progression in awareness. Seniors that are rated in the high 90s shouldn't have awareness in the 50s and 60s.

[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by DorianDonP

You are TOTALLY off base because you 1. skimmed the post or 2. Just want to make a point that I never made. Comparing the rate at which you grow/get faster when you are 12 to a 18 year old is laughable, at best. Players are clocked every year, and freshman DO NOT drastically improve their speed. As my post said, sure it can improve some (40 times, cones, shuttles, etc can improve each year a little) but that should only be expressed by 3-4 points maximum in a video game. Mark Ingram is a 4.5 guy as a freshman and senior. Ted Ginn is a 4.3 guy as a freshman and senior. College and high school 40 times are pretty unreliable, since they differ so drastically when players test for the combine (they tend to get slower, if those times are taken literally). But you wont find 4.6 guys turning into 4.3 guys in college, or should it happen in a video game. When you recruit a player, you know who is a speed demon/track star, who has decent speed, and who won't ever be a fast guy. No amount of training, makes someone drastically faster on the football field (training to run track or shave time by learning how to sprint is another topic). In a video game, speed and acceleration of freshman should stay relatively close to their starting attributes throughout their career. If someone goes from 86 speed to 90 speed, that it should mean that they had a great potential rating. Acceleration should have the highest rate of progression, maybe even as high as 6 points over a career for a potential guy of 99. But for most players? 1-3 points at best. Especially since most college players get bigger during their career, most of their speed training is so they keep their speed while adding on muscle. That is how it is in college.

Athletes do get faster during their time in college; and in some cases the increase in speed is very significant. What's laughable is the thought that speed doesn't increase. I understand that track and field is a different sport, but in it speed is what is being measured. The NCAA record for the 100m is around 9.95 and I think the American Record is 9.69, set by a late twenties Tyson Gay. That is pretty significant.

Also, the underlined statement is one of the most mis-understood myths about athleticism and speed. Muscles make you move! The bigger the muscle (as a generality, not 100%), the greater the force produced (thus the faster then individual). Muscle (the right type) does not slow you down, it makes you faster!

Lastly, if you believe that measurables (10 and 20 yard starts along with the 40) are not tracked, and if you believe that players and strength coaches are not held accountable for improvements, then you are sadly mistaken.

I am not sure how much of an improvement should be seen in video game speed ratings, I'm not really sure how the ratings are configured, but I do know that most players should improve if you want it to mirror reality. In actuality, the biggest improvents in speed are by the slower players. Its common for a kid to come in running 5.6 or 5.7 and leave running 4.9 or 5.0; kids that come in running high 4.4's, might leave running low 4.4's or high 4.3's; but the point is that they do get faster, and there are 4.6 kids that leave as 4.3's, I've seen it.

One more thing and I'll shut up, combine times are pretty much a joke, because it still is relying on human error, the watch is started by a guy, not by a machine. Every scout is timing those guys themselves, because they trust their watch the most. If the NFL wanted to really get accurate times on these players, then they would go to using a touch pad at the start.

[UnderRatedCoast]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mtneer08

Its not so realistic the way you say because of how rare it is in real life to be great at all three of those skill categories. Take Noel Devine for example...his skill type comes around once in every 5-10 years but even he runs a 4.45, yet has some of the best acceleration and agility you will ever see. His speed after 20 yards isn't all that great though.

It's actually very realistic. What you're talking about is a guy who is A+ in all of those categories. No, we don't see a ton of guys like that every year. But the NCAA is full of guys who are 91,92,93 in all of those categories (at least comparatively to how the default rosters are set). Every major team has at least a couple of these guys on the roster. So either the default roster should be edited to reflect how the recruits are set up, or the recruits need to be changed to reflect how the default rosters are set up.