Question about Conference championship games.

[Solidice]

well Missouri dropped behind Kansas last year, despite beating them in head to head. the champ game shouldn't have count in the conference record(in the game), but the overall record broke the tie breaker it seems.

Missouri was 7-1 conference 11-2 overall(pre-bowl). Kansas was 7-1 conference 11-1 overall. Missouri beat Kansas, but Kansas is still listed ahead of Missouri on that ESPN site you listed.

looks like in your situation, it was the same thing, however there were more teams involved, so the loser of the Champ-game dropped farther.

[Craigsca]

mercalmd has it right. According to the Big 12 official site, the non-BCS bowls pick in the following order:

Cotton
Holiday
Gator (when it selects a Big 12 team)
Alamo
Sun (when the Gator does not take a Big 12 team)
Insight
Independence
Texas

While I do believe the game gets it wrong, and that it shouldn't count the championship game in the official conference standings, EA obviously has leeway because the Big 12 #2 doesn't officially go to Bowl X, #3 go to Bowl Y, etc. It's up to the various bowl committees to pick in the order given above.

[hoots711]

Quote: Originally Posted by Craigsca

mercalmd has it right. According to the Big 12 official site, the non-BCS bowls pick in the following order: Cotton Holiday Gator (when it selects a Big 12 team) Alamo Sun (when the Gator does not take a Big 12 team) Insight Independence Texas While I do believe the game gets it wrong, and that it shouldn't count the championship game in the official conference standings, EA obviously has leeway because the Big 12 #2 doesn't officially go to Bowl X, #3 go to Bowl Y, etc. It's up to the various bowl committees to pick in the order given above.

yes, i found the same information..

1... In no way shape or form do i think EA would or even could (if they tried) figure out how to have a bowl (the cotten bowl for example) iinvite someone other than the big 12 # 2.
2. In conference standings if you look at the whole conference Colorado is 5th over and if you look at the north now they are 3rd (6-3) behind 6-2 Uk and 6-2 KSu...

It isnt a bowl picking issue.. it is wether or not their confernce record in determing rank should be 6-2 or 6-3.

Frankly, i still dont know. KU finnishing ahead of Mizzou last year kinda throws a wrench into my theory... Maybe the championship game actually does count?

[hoots711]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/standings/2007/big12/index.html

ok... it appears the SI's ranking had Mizzou (7-1) 12-2 ranked ahead of Kansas (7-1) 12-1 which is different from espn.

So it appears we cant use either to base an answer off of.

Also, Mizzou played the cotten bowl after Oak got the auto bid and Kansas received an at large. So it doesnt tell us if Mizzou was considered the #2 or #3 by the bowl..

So i got nothin... Im surprised it is hard to find a solid answer on this.

[Skilltastrophy]

Conference Championships don't count in conference standings

it's that simple

the BCS is a seperate entity...they select at large teams based on their own criteria...it has nothing to do with conference standings beyond the conference championship

whoever was Colorado in this instance should have finished second in the Big 12 and recieved the bid to play in the Cotton Bowl ala Missouri last year

it's really that simple

the Kansas situation only happens when the BCS is involved...if the Orange Bowl would have selected a non-Big 12 team...say Arizona State or someone of that ilk...then Kansas would have played in the Holiday Bowl...Missouri would have still played in the Cotton Bowl.

[Skilltastrophy]

Actually...I'm slightly mistaken.

I'm right about the standings...Colorado should be considered the number two team. If it was simply determined by win-loss than Missouri would have finished behind Kansas last year, because Mizzou would have two losses. But that did not happen. Mizzou was awarded the Big 12 North title.

BUT...as far as bowl selection goes. The Big 12 strongly encourages the Bowls to follow pecking order and take them in line. And I think the game pretty much does that, because the reality would be too hard to program.

The reality is...the Bowls get to choose which Bowl eligible team they want to offer a bid too...and there's a pecking order. So, a team like Nebraska that travels well could theoretically play in a better bowl than a team that finishes ahead of them simply because that Bowl feels it will make more money if they invite Nebraska. Hence, the bowl system has always been unfair in that regard.

Here's the information on bowl pecking order from the Big 12's own site.

BOWL SELECTION ORDER
Again this season, the Big 12 has eight bowl slots guaranteed. The Conference is partnered with nine bowls. However the arrangement with the Gator Bowl is for it to select a Big 12 team twice over a four-year period. In the two years in which the Gator does not select a Big 12 team, the Sun Bowl will.
Following is the selection order:
BCS
Cotton
Holiday
Gator (when it selects a Big 12 team)
Alamo
Sun (when the Gator does not take a Big 12 team)
Insight
Independence
Texas

[hoots711]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skilltastrophy

Conference Championships don't count in conference standings it's that simple the BCS is a seperate entity...they select at large teams based on their own criteria...it has nothing to do with conference standings beyond the conference championship whoever was Colorado in this instance should have finished second in the Big 12 and recieved the bid to play in the Cotton Bowl ala Missouri last year it's really that simple the Kansas situation only happens when the BCS is involved...if the Orange Bowl would have selected a non-Big 12 team...say Arizona State or someone of that ilk...then Kansas would have played in the Holiday Bowl...Missouri would have still played in the Cotton Bowl.

so the fact that after the championship game Colorado was listed as #5 o/a in the big 12 and #3 in the north 10-3 (6-3) shows us the game is incorrect?

A team should never have more than 8 conference games listed?

[hoots711]

Quote: Originally Posted by Skilltastrophy

Actually...I'm slightly mistaken. I'm right about the standings...Colorado should be considered the number two team. If it was simply determined by win-loss than Missouri would have finished behind Kansas last year, because Mizzou would have two losses. But that did not happen. Mizzou was awarded the Big 12 North title.

ok.. im more confused..

http://statistics.ncaafootball.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=ncaa-football&page=cfoot/conf/big12/standings.aspx?season=2007,sc=AF,conf=Big%2012

This is (i believe) the official ncaa rankings for the big 12.

It has Kansas 7-1 12-1 ahead of mizzou 7-1 12-2...

Mizzou won the north, lost to OU and then was ranked below Kansas.

With these ranking wouldnt kansas have been invited to the cotton bowl assuming they didnt get an at large?

I cant believe there isnt hard documentation on this somewhere easily found???