Matt10's FIFA 15 Legendary Sliders

[Anavarro16]

Thanks reaper for answering. But I was just wondering if the patch changed much of the gameplay. If it didn' than I can use the updated sliders right??

[JoshC1977]

Matt...absolutely love the 11 beta set...I felt like I actually had a chance with the lowered marking; loved the pace of the game.

[FluffyTonka]

Quote: Originally Posted by Matt10

Fluffy - thanks for your insight, honestly. I just think Line Height is getting a misunderstanding from the majority here. I think, and I mean no offense, it's a misunderstanding of what this year's FIFA defensively is all about. It's all about man marking. There is no zonal marking. Period. So that's the basis of my findings. So take that into account with line height. What is line height @ 75, is actually like a 55 - why? Because the marker follows the man to a certain point. He will follow him backwards and follow him forwards as he receives the ball. That is what height does. Now, yet again, the value is being isolated. Height doesn't work without the proper length, acceleration, sprint speed and marking. Length in relation to 72-75 height, has to be to a point in which the strikers will reach the defensive back line. You can see this when on throw ins, they are not always open - but are "posted up" against the defender. This is when you know it's correct. Marking in relation to 72-75 height, has been the biggest obstacle. I've had marking relatively high throughout the sets. Now, @ 45 - it's perfect. Just enough space to mark - but it is the combo of line length + line height + line width that creates the urgency to make a tackle and post up against strikers. In addition to the marking setting, it also allows the defenders to drop back further than the marked man - thus creating the illusion of a lower line height. Line height in a zonal system is scary - like an offsides trap essentially. That's because you're not allowed to follow your man into the zone, you let him pass the line in hopes of a call. This is completely different than what this year's FIFA is about. FIFA 14? Absolutely no problem, I wouldn't have line height this high at all. The reason for this post is to clear the air on line height and shed some understanding of it. I wouldn't set it up that high if I didn't believe what it does. I was a LB, LM and striker in hs/college/pro and can respect all the interactions that are necessary to get this game to play where I want it to. This Version 11 - is so, so, so, close to what I'm looking for. Reaper is testing the same as well and I'm not seeing any exploits of the assumed high line settings. Hope you know this post isn't even directed towards just you, as your interaction and conversations have been invaluable - I just really want to clear the air on the "method" to my madness.

hey don't worry about me getting sensitive even if every word was directed at me. I just want the best possible game this can be, differing opinions and observations are bound to happen.

now, I'm not a stalker. but I have watched your twitch in the portal here for a few hours. And as an observer watching your games, as well as watching 3 or 4 live games per week (1 or 2 BPL, champions league, championship and the local league friday night game)

... one thing I can say about your games is, the majority of your goals and goal scoring chances come about from your high defensive line, and especially when your line gets broken.

your defenders are too slow to turn and pursue and pressure. doesn't seem to matter what team you play with either. possibly it's more legacy defending -- ie you can't shuffle around with L2 and block passing lanes to cut off the killer thru ball which unlocks your high lines. but more than likely imo it's because your defenders are siting too high in general play.

both your goals in your villa Vs arsenal game (i only watched until 1-1 when you equalised) came from speedy attackers -- Gabby and Sanchez -- getting behind plodding defenders -- senderos and mertesacker -- and having all kinds of space to be in on goal for the killer cross / final pass to an unmarked man. So many of your goals come about with an unmarked man receiving the final ball and beating the helpless keeper.

just count up the amount of long shots you see in your games. My games get 3 or 4 from me and 2 or 3 from the CPU per game. Those shots aren't coming in your settings because your defenders are standing right where the attackers could be shooting from. if your defenders were sitting deeper, attackers could shot from the box edges and just outside more often.

arsenal are absolutely exploitable in this game because mertesacker clogs the middle as the last line of defense with his 38 speed and 29 agility.

So even when you reduce marking to 45, mertesacker cannot close the hole from a good or even average through ball from sagging off his man mark.

gabby abused him on your goal you scored, even in the replays, mertesacker can't change direction quick enough, is dragged out of position and there are green acres of space in behind him. mertesacker needs to inside the 18 yard box where his enormous range block shots, tackle ball handlers and clears crosses and balls into the box with his headers.

at least if the line height is reduced to closer to what devs designed the game at 50 (default) on, there is the same amount of defenders with less space to defend equals it's harder to get behind them and score. ie more congestion means more players around mertesacker meaning they can cover for his slow wheels.

as far getting around the line lengths you then have to offset your high heights with ... you can individually set the strikers to come back and man mark on defense. this (imo) is much more important than setting a line with the sliders until you see the ST coming back to collect a defender when he's team isn't in possession.

maybe the CPU isn't exploiting the weakness and issues from the high lines, but me as the user, in a 15 minute half I find it possible to exploit teams with slow, un-agile CB's like arsenal and stoke with a high line.

if you want to see cheese ... allow the CPU to get the ball deep into your third, when you eventually dispossess them, kick it out to your LB or RB, and cross field lobbed thru ball or early cross, and if your team has passing set to anything over say 56-57 and a fast winger you can spam this with a high line setting. You can exploit it with height at 50 ... at 60+ the long hookups just become more frequent. Once you perfect this art, you can win games 5-nil in the championship.

and that's where this game is at imo, balancing what would happen irl against what is possible with the game engine with regard to man marking, overpowered attackers dribbling with agility and turning backs around etc etc

it's why i think this game plays better, almost enthralling in its challenge, with the lower leagues ... it seems like the gap between defenders and attackers is offset and the playing field is more level/ balanced.

imo this version of fifa plays a good blend of challenging and realistic and computer game arcade happenings on the lower leagues with your settings minus the line setups you run with.

the defenders need all the help they can get in fifa 15. ie midfield congestion, lower line heights, deeper sitting CB's and using wingers and ST in the tactical setups to come back onto defense. with no zonal defense as you say, it's even more important the defenders lie deeper off the ball with low line heights and a narrow width & length.

just food for thought for the broader picture of an entire season.

I played an entire 46 game championship, and averaged around 2 goals while giving up just under 1.5 goals per game with lots of nil alls, one-nils and then lots of 3-nil, 4-1 types of blowouts.

at your line settings I played 10 games (with about V8.0 pre patch) and average goals per game jumped from 3 to over six. all identical settings bar line settings were the only slider change from my first season to my next.

just from your chelsea games I saw, you were giving up 3 goals with them and then scoring 1 or two yourself. imo that needs to come down to where chelsea are giving up 1 at most.

and that's where the inevitable tradeoff will have to come with fifa 15. do people want more realistic gameplay but with unrealistic stats, or more realistic stats with a heavily weighted game in the defender's favour?

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mr Hough

So do I use the above sliders matty ? You seem quite happy with them. Can't wait to use them on my new career Appreciate your hard work.

Yes, use the above ones. I've also updated in the OP.

Quote: Originally Posted by reaper31

I think I can speak for Matt when I say they are almost there. From what I have tried we are seeing some good things with the set...just fine tuning it a bit more and we all will be enjoying the game before you know it.

Thanks, reaper - especially for streaming as it makes me not feel crazy that I'm not the only one experiencing certain things. I've seen so much variety in the gameplay - it's refreshing. I think there is absolutely plenty of room to tweak, but I will say it will not be many values as I really feel good about a lot of them.

The one area I'm going to look at, after re-reading fluffy's post, is reconsider the line height. The combinations I have right now are really good - so if just adjusting line height could make or break it. I know what I'm looking for, so if any of you get to testing - here is what needs to remain:

1. Defensive line meeting the attackers - remember line height helps this significantly, they intercept passes more and force strikers to gain position first.

2. Transition (after a corner or a turnover in the defensive third, etc) where the ball goes to the striker...i don't want him to be able to cross the halfway line so easily. There should always be someone at least near him. You have to think like a coach - how pissed would you be if your defense let the opposing striker just cruise into your half?

3. Pass variety - I've already proven today that teams play differently when you force them to with line length. I've also proven that it doesn't matter what pass error - even 75 had plenty of long balls, please watch the Stoke City and Notts County matches for reference. I do not want to sacrifice this - and it will be if we mess with line length to compensate for line height.

4. Branching off of that, line length adjusted to higher (because one would assume line height would go down) means that the strikers would reach the defensive line, but you have the problem with the midfielders not dropping back to defend. This is where balance comes into play. Believe me, I've tried it @ Line Height of 10 and Length of 90 - there is literally no midfield. Even at zero marking (in hopes to remove the man marking), your CM/DM do not track back realistically. This is why the settings I have work so well because they track back and still have the capability to be challenged by the defensive line in transition.

Quote: Originally Posted by Anavarro16

Thanks reaper for answering. But I was just wondering if the patch changed much of the gameplay. If it didn' than I can use the updated sliders right??

It did. Over-marking and over aggressive CPU passing attack, including threaded through balls to make it "difficult". Version 11 Beta addresses these issues.

[reaper31]

Quote: Originally Posted by Anavarro16

Thanks reaper for answering. But I was just wondering if the patch changed much of the gameplay. If it didn' than I can use the updated sliders right??

Well Anavarro, yes the game play has changed, mostly noticeably on legendary but this new set is for SLOW speed settings while the version 9 ( before the pach) set was built around NORMAL game speed.

[Matt10]

Quote: Originally Posted by FluffyTonka

hey don't worry about me getting sensitive even if every word was directed at me. I just want the best possible game this can be, differing opinions and observations are bound to happen. now, I'm not a stalker. but I have watched your twitch in the portal here for a few hours. And as an observer watching your games, as well as watching 3 or 4 live games per week (1 or 2 BPL, champions league, championship and the local league friday night game) ... one thing I can say about your games is, the majority of your goals and goal scoring chances come about from your high defensive line, and especially when your line gets broken. your defenders are too slow to turn and pursue and pressure. doesn't seem to matter what team you play with either. possibly it's more legacy defending -- ie you can't shuffle around with L2 and block passing lanes to cut off the killer thru ball which unlocks your high lines. but more than likely imo it's because your defenders are siting too high in general play. both your goals in your villa Vs arsenal game (i only watched until 1-1 when you equalised) came from speedy attackers -- Gabby and Sanchez -- getting behind plodding defenders -- senderos and mertesacker -- and having all kinds of space to be in on goal for the killer cross / final pass to an umakred man. So many of your goals come about with an unmarked man receiving the final ball and beating the helpless keeper. just count up the amount of long shots you see in your games. My games get 3 or 4 from me and 2 or 3 from the CPU per game. Those shots aren't coming in your settings because your defenders are standing right where the attackers could be shooting from. arsenal are absolutely exploitable in this game because mertesacker clogs the middle as the last line of defense with his 38 speed and 29 agility. So even when you reduce marking to 45, mertesacker cannot close the hole from a good or even average through ball from sagging off his man mark. gabby abused him on your goal you score, even in the replays, mertesacker can change direction quick enough, is dragged out of position and there are green acres of space in behind him. at least if the line height is reduced to closer to what devs designed the game at 50 (default) on, there is the same amount of defenders with less space to defend equals it's harder to get behind them and score. ie more congestion means more players around mertesacker meaning they can cover for his slow wheels. as far getting around the line lengths you then have to offset your high heights with ... you can individually set the strikers to come back and man mark on defense. this (imo) is much more important than setting a line with the sliders until you see the ST coming back to collect a defender when he's team isn't in possession. maybe the CPU isn't exploiting the weakness and issues from the high lines, but me as the user, in a 15 minute half I find it possible to exploit teams with slow, un-agile CB's like arsenal and stoke with a high line. if you want to see cheese ... allow the CPU to get the ball deep into your third, when you eventually dispossess them, kick it out to your LB or RB, and cross field lobbed thru ball or early cross, and if your team has passing set to anything over say 56-57 and a fast winger you can spam this with a high line setting. You can exploit it with height at 50 ... at 60+ the long hookups just become more frequent. Once you perfect this art, you can win games 5-nil in the championship. and that's where this game is at imo, balancing what would happen irl against what is possible with the game engine with regard to man marking, overpowered attackers dribbling with agility and turning backs around etc etc it's why i think this game plays better, almost enthralling in its challenge, with the lower leagues ... it seems like the gap between defenders and attackers is offset and the playing field is more level/ balanced. imo this version of fifa plays a good blend of challenging and realistic and computer game arcade happenings on the lower leagues with your settings minus the line setups you run with. the defenders need all the help they can get in fifa 15. ie midfield congestion, lower line heights, deeper sitting CB's and using wingers and ST in the tactical setups to come back onto defense. with no zonal defense as you say, it's even more important the defenders lie deeper off the ball with low line heights and a narrow width & length. just food for thought for the broader picture of an entire season. I played an entire 46 game championship, and averaged around 2 goals while giving up just under 1.5 goals per game with lots of nil alls, one-nils and then lots of 3-nil, 4-1 types of blowouts. at your line settings I played 10 games (with about V8.0 pre patch) and average goals per game jumped from 3 to over six. all identical settings bar line settings were the only slider change from my first season to my next. just from your chelsea games I saw, you were giving up 3 goals with them and then scoring 1 or two yourself. imo that needs to come down to where chelsea are giving up 1 at most. and that's where the inevitable tradeoff will have to come with fifa 15. do people want more realistic gameplay but with unrealistic stats, or more realistic stats with a heavily weighted game in the defender's favour?

All completely different than the settings posted right now. The acceleration discrepancy alone overrides these issues. I understand the need to prove a point, but you can't use footage from previous days. For example the Chelsea matches were played with a 1. Low sprint speed testing 2. Low line height 3. high line height. 4. low line length 5. high line length. 6. high line width 7. high marking. .....the list continues on.

Every single value change makes a difference, even something as little as pass error (which none of those were used at 75). Also acceleration and sprint speed make all the difference.

I could go on, Fluffy. I appreciate you trying the sliders and given me super valuable feedback. LIke I said in the previous post I'm considering the line height because your input has grown on me - but you know I'm stubborn about what I'm looking for. I know I won't settle though, and I know when I'm actually playing full matches like I did today - it's on the right track. Just wait and see - and don't judge this book by its cover - you'll start missing out on some seriously fun gameplay

[FluffyTonka]

one absolute strength the defenders have this year is closing down attackers and blocking shots on goal from inside their own box and clearing air balls into the box with headers and athletic volley clearances.

the speed and flow of your games is excellent, and its something I cant replicate with my line setting testing I've done.

if we could somehow get your speed and flow and range of CPU play into the balancing act of making defenders not so exploitable it'd be as perfect as we can get without personally altering code.

I feel like when i'm watching your twitch, that it's so close to real football, we just need to move all the players back (evenly, and this is the key that I can't unlock no matter what I try) 15 yards.

[FluffyTonka]

hey I just realised you're back to slow on legendary! you just convinced me to try normal, and I've been getting use to it and loving it. lol.