What a shame

[ab541]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

I'm pretty sure EA UFC 3 has made more significant changes to the game than any sports game released this year, by any company. Do you disagree? If not, how can you devalue it by comparing it to an expansion pack.

Being in the software industry myself i can definitely appreciate the drastic development changes made to the striking system which i feel are super good step in the right direction and you and your team have done great job on the timescales. The game has definitely made huge changes to the systems involved on the feet unlike some other sports games which remain stagnant.

However let me now be brutally honest as a potential end user and a big MMA fan. It feels like 2 steps forward and then 2 steps back at times with the decisions made in developing this series, as the end goal is to create the most realistic and fun to play MMA game ever made. So why i ask are we adding new systems then removing things that don't make any sense to remove.

For example in the first game there was the ability to get the ref to actually physically separate the fighters if the player on the bottom did not intelligently defend himself, which was really cool. Then it was completely removed from the game, not tweaked but destroyed. This was a great feature and i really don't understand why this was removed as it added to the overall depth of the game.

Now fast forward to this iteration and many people are now upset that the KO's are not allowing follow up strikes, including myself. Why go to the trouble of making the KO's look great then remove a feature that added greatly to the finish. If its a preference between walk off animation and follow up strikes i bet my savings that the majority of people on the forums would pick the latter.

I was looking forward to buying this game but the 2 steps forward , 2 steps back approach puts people back on the fence. This is a lot of money for people to spend and we are all rightly annoyed at the decisions being made, as removing things for no logical explanation only hurts the fan-base and the depth of the game in the long run.

I wanted to keep it real and i hope that you can see this post and see where we are coming from when complaints like this are made. Maybe its above board to remove these things from the game, but its worth putting this out there because someone at EA needs to take notice.

Thanks & Regards
AB541

[GameplayDevUFC]

Quote: Originally Posted by ab541

Being in the software industry myself i can definitely appreciate the drastic development changes made to the striking system which i feel are super good step in the right direction and you and your team have done great job on the timescales. The game has definitely made huge changes to the systems involved on the feet unlike some other sports games which remain stagnant. However let me now be brutally honest as a potential end user and a big MMA fan. It feels like 2 steps forward and then 2 steps back at times with the decisions made in developing this series, as the end goal is to create the most realistic and fun to play MMA game ever made. So why i ask are we adding new systems then removing things that don't make any sense to remove. For example in the first game there was the ability to get the ref to actually physically separate the fighters if the player on the bottom did not intelligently defend himself, which was really cool. Then it was completely removed from the game, not tweaked but destroyed. This was a great feature and i really don't understand why this was removed as it added to the overall depth of the game. Now fast forward to this iteration and many people are now upset that the KO's are not allowing follow up strikes, including myself. Why go to the trouble of making the KO's look great then remove a feature that added greatly to the finish. If its a preference between walk off animation and follow up strikes i bet my savings that the majority of people on the forums would pick the latter. I was looking forward to buying this game but the 2 steps forward , 2 steps back approach puts people back on the fence. This is a lot of money for people to spend and we are all rightly annoyed at the decisions being made, as removing things for no logical explanation only hurts the fan-base and the depth of the game in the long run. I wanted to keep it real and i hope that you can see this post and see where we are coming from when complaints like this are made. Maybe its above board to remove these things from the game, but its worth putting this out there because someone at EA needs to take notice. Thanks & Regards AB541

Do you really think the number of steps forward with the striking is equal in the number of steps back (with the TKO finishes and standing KO changes)? Isn't it closer to 1000 steps forward and 2 steps back?

Regardless, the 11 undefended punch TKO system in UFC 1 wasn't removed, it was replaced with the arm damage meta for TKO finishes. There are two kinds of ground finishes. TKO's where the defender is still holding block but the ref stops the fight without an unconscious fighter, but instead of it being a flat number of strikes, it was done with block breakdown using arm damage. Full on KO's happen when the finishing strike lands with no block being held, and the fight goes limp.

A one to one replacement with a similar, more robust system.

If you don't like the new system that's cool. But it wasn't removed.

As for the KO's from standing, we got a lot of feedback on UFC 2 from consumers, critics (JRE) and the UFC themselves that beating on an unconscious opponent didn't represent the sport well.

So there was a deliberate decision to not allow the ability to dive on the opponent if it was a full on KO, if we didn't have ref interactions. We don't have ref interactions, because we didn't have to resources to put that in given the rest of the work we needed to do, so that was the decision that was made.

It's cool to disagree with that decision, but you can still jump on and finish your opponent if you get a KD of the most severe variety, so that moment still exists and wasn't removed completely.

So maybe 1000 steps forward and half a step back?

[Acebaldwin]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

Do you really think the number of steps forward with the striking is equal in the number of steps back (with the TKO finishes and standing KO changes)? Isn't it closer to 1000 steps forward and 2 steps back? Regardless, the 11 undefended punch TKO system in UFC 1 wasn't removed, it was replaced with the arm damage meta for TKO finishes. There are two kinds of ground finishes. TKO's where the defender is still holding block but the ref stops the fight without an unconscious fighter, but instead of it being a flat number of strikes, it was done with block breakdown using arm damage. Full on KO's happen when the finishing strike lands with no block being held, and the fight goes limp. A one to one replacement with a similar, more robust system. If you don't like the new system that's cool. But it wasn't removed. As for the KO's from standing, we got a lot of feedback on UFC 2 from consumers, critics (JRE) and the UFC themselves that beating on an unconscious opponent didn't represent the sport well. So there was a deliberate decision to not allow the ability to dive on the opponent if it was a full on KO, if we didn't have ref interactions. We don't have ref interactions, because we didn't have to resources to put that in given the rest of the work we needed to do, so that was the decision that was made. It's cool to disagree with that decision, but you can still jump on and finish your opponent if you get a KD of the most severe variety, so that moment still exists and wasn't removed completely. So maybe 1000 steps forward and half a step back?

UFC should take a look at some of the stoppage of Herb Dean or Yves Lavigne if they think it doesn't represent the sport. Hell, even without a referee you'd sometimes think it does a better job at it then these two at times.

I don't agree with the decision, but what can I do.

[Haz____]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

So maybe 1000 steps forward and half a step back?

Man, I have serious respect for you guys. I know you put your heart and soul into this game.. But that is quite the stretch IMO.



The "TKO" finish where your arms float in the air awkwardly and you lose control of your fighter looks and feels terrible.



How many iced out, clean, starched, walk away KOs do you see in MMA? Not many at alllll. Almost all of them are knowdowns with follow up punches.

[Acebaldwin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Haz____

Man, I have serious respect for you guys. I know you put your heart and soul into this game.. But that is quite the stretch IMO. The "TKO" finish where your arms float in the air awkwardly and you lose control of your fighter looks and feels terrible.

I think it looks good, it looks like someone that was caught while stretching their arms up to deflect punches or get a hold of the neck or arms. But it also looks like someone who's guard just got opened while being struck and close to be completely out of it. It could be way worse tbh.

[Serengeti1]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

As for the KO's from standing, we got a lot of feedback on UFC 2 from consumers, critics (JRE) and the UFC themselves that beating on an unconscious opponent didn't represent the sport well.

Lol. I knew that **** was removed because of Rogan's comment. Guarantee it wouldn't have been changed this time around otherwise. The thing is with this is it doesn't solve what triggered Rogan's response there. It was the fact that the guy wasn't moving at all and eating clean punches to the face.... Which you can still do now. In the finish the fight animations. If a guy isn't moving like that irl and getting punched in the face while sitting in the fetal position... as we all know... the fight is getting stopped lol. So by making this change they haven't fixed the problem. It helps but it's pretty much the tip of the iceberg.

There's quite a lot that needs doing to emulate realistic stoppages right now. Personally, it's not a priority of mine and I don't mind too much. A lot of it will be much easier to fix once referee interaction is put into the game.

[Solid_Altair]

Quote: Originally Posted by Serengeti95

Lol. I knew that **** was removed because of Rogan's comment. Guarantee it wouldn't have been changed this time around otherwise. The thing is with this is it doesn't solve what triggered Rogan's response there. It was the fact that the guy wasn't moving at all and eating clean punches to the face.... Which you can still do now. In the finish the fight animations. If a guy isn't moving like that irl and getting punched in the face while sitting in the fetal position... as we all know... the fight is getting stopped lol. So by making this change they haven't fixed the problem. It helps but it's pretty much the tip of the iceberg. There's quite a lot that needs doing to emulate realistic stoppages right now. Personally, it's not a priority of mine and I don't mind too much. A lot of it will be much easier to fix once referee interaction is put into the game.

I agree that FTF allows way too many punches.

[manliest_Man]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

As for the KO's from standing, we got a lot of feedback on UFC 2 from consumers, critics (JRE) and the UFC themselves that beating on an unconscious opponent didn't represent the sport well.

Ohhh Dang it i knew it! As soon as that dude had posted that JRE video that day on the Operation Sports Forums. I remember being really active in the forum during that time and i thought about posting JRE reacting to the game, but i remember thinking to myself "I won't post this, because i believe some Higher UP might see it in the forum and take JRE's criticism seriously when it comes brutality and referee allowing unconcious fighters to get hit while on the ground and they might consider removing it from the next game. I really like that aspect of the game i wanna see it improved but not completely removed."

But then somebody had to post it!

This is the video that someone had posted here:


Sadly that fear of mine has now come to fruition and I see someone took it into consideration...

I can't believe this is the actual reason it got removed...

Please bring it back to what it was, otherwise if still possible to patch it in later, have the referee pull you off the guy on the ground...

UFC Undisputed 3 felt the best when it comes to that unconcious fighter Ground and Pound Interaction. You'd seamlessly jump on top of them fluidly and throw 2-3 good fast shots and then the ref would force you off the opponent pretty quickly.


The Ground & Pound aspect after KOing the Opponent is definitely something that didn't look good in EA UFC 2(animation wise looked outdated/out of place day 1 it was out), it was something i expected to be improved visually, not completely removed... I didn't really care that it looked bad though, because i knew it was the price we had to pay for the new & random physics KO Mechanics(that were also removed from EA UFC 3, but thankfully are back after Beta Feedback)