Dear GC's

[iHazCode]

Every other thread is "this is spam" , "why is this so OP". Can we please look to increasing damage on all other areas instead of slowly nerfing everything.

From a software development standpoint I realize nerfing 1 item at a time is easier than buffing everything else, but I feel like we all should know where this is heading.

[fballturkey]

For real. If the online folks got the majority’s way by the time patches were done nothing would be dangerous anymore. Every time someone gets KOed they decide the game is unbalanced and want it nerfed.

[YourFatZebra]

I said this in the thread, that I believe you started, about online V offline tuning.

I find it strange that nearly every community around a game views patches in one of two ways.

1. Nerf everything to uselessness.

2. Buff everything to perfection.

I don't think either of those things are necessarily what usually happens when a game does what the players call a "Buff" or a "Nerf", it's just easier to simplify that when talking about it.

Small tweaks on an intricate level to fine tune the gameplay, that's what's needed. I think that's what we're getting too. Don't start jumping off the bridge just because GPD made adjustments to the OP body shots. I don't know why you'd even be upset about that to begin with, but stay on land friend. We aren't trying to nerf things out of usefulness, but we definitely shouldn't just be buffing **** to try and even out what's already stronger.

This ain't COD where the FAMAS is such a beast we just make everything else match it. It's not the same thing at all. You start jacking up damage of other stuff and you're just gonna ruin whatever balance there is in the damage system currently.

I have some faith in the dev team based on the way they're handling the current situations with the game. Just let it play out man. Buffing everything to god level is definitely not what we need, if you want to do that they have all sorts of sliders.

[iHazCode]

Quote: Originally Posted by YourFatZebra

I said this in the thread, that I believe you started, about online V offline tuning. I find it strange that nearly every community around a game views patches in one of two ways. 1. Nerf everything to uselessness. 2. Buff everything to perfection. I don't think either of those things are necessarily what usually happens when a game does what the players call a "Buff" or a "Nerf", it's just easier to simplify that when talking about it. Small tweaks on an intricate level to fine tune the gameplay, that's what's needed. I think that's what we're getting too. Don't start jumping off the bridge just because GPD made adjustments to the OP body shots. I don't know why you'd even be upset about that to begin with, but stay on land friend. We aren't trying to nerf things out of usefulness, but we definitely shouldn't just be buffing **** to try and even out what's already stronger. This ain't COD where the FAMAS is such a beast we just make everything else match it. It's not the same thing at all. You start jacking up damage of other stuff and you're just gonna ruin whatever balance there is in the damage system currently. I have some faith in the dev team based on the way they're handling the current situations with the game. Just let it play out man. Buffing everything to god level is definitely not what we need, if you want to do that they have all sorts of sliders.

For the sake of brevity I didn't spell out my point which I suppose I should have elaborated a bit though as it seems you've taken what I said entirely wrong.

My point is that, as far as damage realism is concerned, there are only a few areas that in my opinion are close to realistic. However 10 times out of 10, these are the same areas that people get frustrated with because in contrast to all the other strikes/techniques in the game they are truly OP.
I was trying to state that instead of looking at the most powerful strikes and tuning them down always (we have been doing this for nearly 5 years now with this franchise), maybe it's worth looking at things from the other direction. Since the same people complaining about things being OP, are more times than not the same people that want a more authentic damage and stamina meta.

In short my solution wasn't "buff everything", but with the terminology used on these forums I thought wording it like that would be most appropriate.

I too am a developer btw, and understand intimately the balance that goes into creating any types of software. However I try to live by the saying about doing the same thing, and expecting different results as well.

I trust this community and this team, I just feel that at the rate things are heading, I will see posts about "pillow fights" more and more 12 months from now. Tbh, I was playing with a friend the other day and he wanted to end the match and told me to finish him. He literally did not have the control in his hand, and I could hardly finish him, using the most powerful techniques in the game. It was pretty eye opening for me to be truthful..

Maybe it's that, maybe it's history. Most likely it's a combination of the two, but my take away was that the last thing this game needs right now are nerfs.

But alas, I also understand where your coming from, and yes I am using a broad stoke which taken too literally would be chaos.

[Solid_Altair]

I'm not understanding the context of this thread. Is this about the body punches nerf?

[GameplayDevUFC]

I am privy to analytics that you guys don't see.

Trust me, if we buff damage to the head in any way it needs to be done very carefully or we risk having no decisions in the game ever.

And that is something offline players would hate.

A lot of these "throw 100 overhand punches against someone who put down the controller" tests show that there's a problem with the overall design of the damage system in terms of mathcing reality perfectly, but they do not point to a problem with the current gameplay balance.

We tune for actual gameplay, not weird edge cases.

I'd like to get rid of the edge cases so people can't make silly videos, but not at the expense of the experience 99% of people are having while actually playing the game.

I hope that makes sense.

[fballturkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by GameplayDevUFC

I am privy to analytics that you guys don't see. Trust me, if we buff damage to the head in any way it needs to be done very carefully or we risk having no decisions in the game ever. And that is something offline players would hate. A lot of these "throw 100 overhand punches against someone who put down the controller" tests show that there's a problem with the overall design of the damage system in terms of mathcing reality perfectly, but they do not point to a problem with the current gameplay balance. We tune for actual gameplay, not weird edge cases. I'd like to get rid of the edge cases so people can't make silly videos, but not at the expense of the experience 99% of people are having while actually playing the game. I hope that makes sense.

If people fought with the reckless disregard for human life that people do in this game there would be no decisions in real life either.

Ideally if head damage were higher people would be more cautious in general (like in real life) which would paradoxically lead to more decisions, but in reality I'm pretty sure you're right that people would just press forward constantly anyway and every fight would end in the first three minutes.

I don't envy your all's job.

[iHazCode]

Yes that makes good sense.

I guess my lack of fully analyzing all the problems you've been wrestling with for the better part of a decade now says. Make the damage and stamina model extremely harsh. I could envision we'd see most matches not make it past the first few minutes of the first round for quite a while. Though in a blue sky world, my hope would be that players eventually learn to use footwork, and other tools such as clinches and intricate setups to play out the fight. Ultimately with the number of total strike falling off not only because the fight likely wouldn't last that long, but also because players would be pacing themselves in a way to get that "ideal" strike. A fantasy world where a few clean strikes in a round could be a big deal.

I realize that probably isn't realistic with how gamers approach things though. But to answer your question Solid, yeah the motive behind this post initially sparked by my thinking about making body strikes doing less damage. I did play one other MMA style game where it seemed damage really over the top in comparison. It frustrated me at times. Though on the other hand when I did get a nice strike or 3 in, it was a huge and memorable thing. That particular game was setup in a way where a head kick (or certainly two) almost always lead to the end of a fight.

I'm sure that's certainly not something for most as it can be really frustrating. But maybe we could get something like that as an option someday for freaks like me? Or at least to shut me up so I can realize how ridiculous that idea is haha (I'm joking).