Reasonable crucifix fix

[FCB x Finlay]

Quote: Originally Posted by OPSPunk

I disagree and so does Ben Askren https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=fSavYKIEV40 Khabib also disagrees https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5P-N7L1qu8 BJJ is sort of an old school thing. A top BJJ guy better have really good striking to make it in the UFC. On the other hand there are guys who have very basic striking but can wrestle and can become top level guys (Blaydes, Covington, Usman, early Woodley, Cejudo, etc)

Where do they disagree with what i said regarding power shots and subs?

Khabib isnt a basic wrestler either sambo is a mix of judo and wrestling.

[OPSPunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by FCB x Finlay

Where do they disagree with what i said regarding power shots and subs? Khabib isnt a basic wrestler either sambo is a mix of judo and wrestling.

You must not have watched the full video. But Askren doesn't like mount or back mount because in it games the BJJ system of securing position so an opponent will go back and forth between those two spot to avoid a postition stabilization and thus avoids the strikes.

However in crucifix and back side control there real isn't anywhere to go. All positions become bad in that scenario. This is exactly how an Askren or Khabib fight plays out. The rain down punches from a pinning position (side control or crucifix) or riding position back side control (often with a base broken down)

Regarding Sambo...because they use grappling in the context of striking unlike BJJ. they prefer positions similar to the wrestling one.

[FCB x Finlay]

Quote: Originally Posted by OPSPunk

You must not have watched the full video. But Askren doesn't like mount or back mount because in it games the BJJ system of securing position so an opponent will go back and forth between those two spot to avoid a postition stabilization and thus avoids the strikes. However in crucifix and back side control there real isn't anywhere to go. All positions become bad in that scenario. This is exactly how an Askren or Khabib fight plays out. The rain down punches from a pinning position (side control or crucifix) or riding position back side control (often with a base broken down) Regarding Sambo...because they use grappling in the context of striking unlike BJJ. they prefer positions similar to the wrestling one.

Thats not disagreeing with what im saying. They are saying mount has higher chances of escape. Mount and back mount allows for harder shots due to being able to posture up and bring down heavier shots, and there are more/more chances of subs available.

[Ksearyback]

Quote: Originally Posted by OPSPunk

You must not have watched the full video. But Askren doesn't like mount or back mount because in it games the BJJ system of securing position so an opponent will go back and forth between those two spot to avoid a postition stabilization and thus avoids the strikes. However in crucifix and back side control there real isn't anywhere to go. All positions become bad in that scenario. This is exactly how an Askren or Khabib fight plays out. The rain down punches from a pinning position (side control or crucifix) or riding position back side control (often with a base broken down) Regarding Sambo...because they use grappling in the context of striking unlike BJJ. they prefer positions similar to the wrestling one.

I think you're looking at what works for these two unique and dynamic grapplers, and extrapolating onto all fighters.

These guys have figured out ways to control and damage their opponent in ways that best suit their many years of grappling experience.

Jacare's and Maia's passing game and mount and/or back-control aren't easily replicated, because they are the result of years of technique and practical experience. Similarly, Askren and Khabib's ability to control opponents from positions (like ride, half guard etc.) are small nuanced adaptations to an already high level skill-set.

In other words, I don't think the answer is so simple. Control and damage can come from most all of these positions. The variance in control and damage is more fighter dependent than position-dependent. Speaking globally about any of this is challenging, and likely to result in the inaccurate extrapolation of information unique to a certain person.

[OPSPunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ksearyback

I think you're looking at what works for these two unique and dynamic grapplers, and extrapolating onto all fighters. These guys have figured out ways to control and damage their opponent in ways that best suit their many years of grappling experience. Jacare's and Maia's passing game and mount and/or back-control aren't easily replicated, because they are the result of years of technique and practical experience. Similarly, Askren and Khabib's ability to control opponents from positions (like ride, half guard etc.) are small nuanced adaptations to an already high level skill-set. In other words, I don't think the answer is so simple. Control and damage can come from most all of these positions. The variance in control and damage is more fighter dependent than position-dependent. Speaking globally about any of this is challenging, and likely to result in the inaccurate extrapolation of information unique to a certain person.

I agree that guys are stronger in various positions. In this thread or another I said that gnp should be rated by position.

I disagree that it’s just a stylistic preference. Admittedly I have a wrestling bias, but I think the Askren Khabib style beats the Jacre vs Maia style. But I can no offer any fight evidence of this because I have never seen equally high level fighters at that style compete.

I can say that I have seen people escape back mount hooks in and top mount. It’s prettyrate I see someone get out of crucifix. And when I have there was some serious smashing before then

[FCB x Finlay]

Quote: Originally Posted by OPSPunk

I agree that guys are stronger in various positions. In this thread or another I said that gnp should be rated by position. I disagree that it’s just a stylistic preference. Admittedly I have a wrestling bias, but I think the Askren Khabib style beats the Jacre vs Maia style. But I can no offer any fight evidence of this because I have never seen equally high level fighters at that style compete. I can say that I have seen people escape back mount hooks in and top mount. It’s prettyrate I see someone get out of crucifix. And when I have there was some serious smashing before then

Wiedman and jake shields are a different style of bjj to demian

[OPSPunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by FCB x Finlay

Thats not disagreeing with what im saying. They are saying mount has higher chances of escape. Mount and back mount allows for harder shots due to being able to posture up and bring down heavier shots, and there are more/more chances of subs available.

Go watch jones vs Matushehko. I think crucfix is more devastating
1. It’s waaaay harder a position to escape
2. Strikes can be delivered with way more speed
3. Strikes can be delivered with no defense. You can block and deflect shots or even move to avoid in some cases in mount. You just eat crucifix shots

Back side control is way better than back mount for shots as you can post your leg to deliver more power.

[OPSPunk]

Quote: Originally Posted by FCB x Finlay

Wiedman and jake shields are a different style of bjj to demian

I agree I didn’t mention them. Both of those guys seem to follow the ban pyramid to mount. If you are referencing there wins over Maia. I think Weidmans size and superior striking played a bigger factor than grappling style. Tbh I never saw Shields vs Maia