UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

[aholbert32]

This is kind of a different variation of the Wishlist thread. Basically the point of this thread is to help the devs identify the improvements that OSers need (meaning they wont buy the game without it) vs. the improvements/additions OSers want (meaning things they would love to see but will still consider buying the game if its not added).

The reality is that the devs only have a small amount of time for development and this could help them identify the things that this community feels should be at the top of the list.

One last thing: This is entirely personal and should be focused on what you want. This isnt really a thread for debate. For example, I think "universe mode" is more of a need than a want for me but I understand that others wont care about that. This isnt the thread to debate that. This the thread to state what is important to you.

[johnmangala]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Need: Mulitdirectional sprint (strafing/lateral sprint + linear sprint), Revamped grappling (aka something like TBS + mobile grappling), Timed leg kick checks (like body kicks now) open guard clinch, driving single, clinch logic, head fighting (sways in clinch/ground), true clinch range (head to head, shoulder to shoulder), etc.

Want: Better shifting/switching, square (neutral) stance, pawing/stiff arm, hand fighting, etc

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

This is kind of a different variation of the Wishlist thread. Basically the point of this thread is to help the devs identify the improvements that OSers need (meaning they wont buy the game without it) vs. the improvements/additions OSers want (meaning things they would love to see but will still consider buying the game if its not added).

The reality is that the devs only have a small amount of time for development and this could help them identify the things that this community feels should be at the top of the list.

One last thing: This is entirely personal and should be focused on what you want. This isnt really a thread for debate. For example, I think "universe mode" is more of a need than a want for me but I understand that others wont care about that. This isnt the thread to debate that. This the thread to state what is important to you.

Needs:

Gameplay
More power to strikes individually.
Better rock and health system.
Better movement and defensive abilities. Parrys, headmovement etc
Some fix to input delay.

Modes
Far far more in depth career mode with better character identity, needs to be able to KO people in one punch or submit people easily if that's there style, the rest is self explanatory.
UT needs scrapped and returned to UFC 2 with slight alterations.

Wants
More fighter individuality, bigger stat gaps, highlight fighter strengths/weaknesses more.
Better AI, continue the improvement we have gotten.
Better feedback options on the game itself and access to some community feedback, via number etc.
Combo system removal or upgrade.
Better grappling.

[bmlimo]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Needs:
-an at least decent career mode
-more sliders(striking speed, agressiviness, footwork speed, etc)
- online sim mode
- fix autotrack issues
- footwork changing movement speed not range
-reduce strikes range
- more stamina penalty on blocked strikes
-more vulnerability on block
- revamp all the grappling... there’s almost nothing good in this game system

Want:
- nerf knee elbow
- overhand not covering half octagon

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

One thing I wanted to remind you guys: The needs are MUST HAVES. Meaning that you will strongly consider not buying the game if that feature or improvement isnt added.

So if a "better rock system" is something that would keep you from buying the game if it isnt in....its a need. If its something that you would like to see but would still buy the game if it wasnt added...its a want.

[TheRizzzle]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Must have better CAF system and slots. I'm talking at least 50-100. And a randomized button for quality of life. Sometimes I just want a semi-realistic, not super powered but believable CAF that takes 10 minutes to make.

I have a feeling universe mode is still a pipe dream, so this would greatly increase my purchasing power. The roster is likely to see some overhaul as usual with people coming and going. Plenty of new fighters I'll be excited but just as many exiting the game where it might not feel like a net win.

I want universe mode, bordering on a need at this point simply because despite it likely not mattering, I don't know how to express my befuddled mind in any way other than voting with my $$$ to get them to put it in.

I understand that a combat sports game isn't exactly a traditional sports game, but IF IT IS A SPORTS GAME, it needs franchise mode and not just a single player career mode, just like every other sports title made that's worth a damn.



Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[TheRizzzle]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

P.S. we're all suckers and will probably buy this game regardless.

But I wanted to answer the question to the best of my abilities given the format.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

One thing I wanted to remind you guys: The needs are MUST HAVES. Meaning that you will strongly consider not buying the game if that feature or improvement isnt added.

So if a "better rock system" is something that would keep you from buying the game if it isnt in....its a need. If its something that you would like to see but would still buy the game if it wasnt added...its a want.

I put it in short terms, didn't want to put a long post. I genuinely will consider not buying the next game if health, damage and rocks aren't addressed for standing and grappling gameplay.

[WarMMA]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Now first i'll state that i'm a hardcore fan as you already know, so there will never be a situation where I won't buy the game...I just love MMA that much. But for the sake of the topic, here goes...


NEEDS


1. Classic Fights Mode: Let us re-live and replay some of the greatest fights in UFC history.

2. A Deeper Practice/Tutorial Mode like Undisputed 3's: Let me choose the positions and senarios I want from a list and be able to go right to them. For example if I wanna go straight to mount and practice something, I should be able to just choose the mount position from a positions list and go straight there, as opposed to having to grapple my way there with the training dummy. Also for certain senarios, I should be able to set my training dummy to do what I want standing, in clinch and on the ground. Grappling and striking moves.

3. Universe Mode: I'm more of a versus gameplay guy so not a big one for me, but it would be pretty cool to have.



WANTS


1. Improved Clinch Grappling

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One of the biggest things I wish to see is a much improved clinch system...


Movement
Fighters should be walking, moving around more fluidly and not static.

More like this...

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And NOT like this...

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Clinch Control
Another thing that needs to be addressed is clinch control. Depending on clinch grapple stats, fighters should be easier/harder to move around. For example, a guy like Colby Covington (95 clinch grapple) should be able to move a guy like Kelvin Gastelum (89 clinch grapple) around easier. And for Gastelum, it should be harder for him to move Colby around in the clinch. Of course along with this, there should be other things that play a factor also, like the stamina of both fighters.


Momentum Transitions
With more fluid clinch movement, this opens up the doors for more possibilities like momentum transitions in the clinch. Much like irl, certain transitions in the clinch would be easier(faster) depending on direction of movement. For example, a fighter being pushed backward in the clinch should be more susceptible to shooting td's. Similarly, a fighter pushing their opponent backward in the clinch should be more susceptible to things like a judo throw/hip toss or even a double overhook throw...

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More TD Variety
I'd like to see more variety of throws in the clinch. More wrestling type throws in specific...especially from over/under. Things like inside/outside leg trips, lateral drops, judo throws from sub double unders, knee taps, ect...

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2. Rocked States on the Ground & Interactive TKO System

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Fighters should be able to get rocked on the ground after taking a certain amount of damage. Once rocked, they should enter an interactive tko state, where BOTH players have a few options. The defending fighter should be able to block strikes, sway from bottom to avoid them, try to catch them to regain posture control and they should also be able to deny transitions. The attacking fighter should be able to throw strikes, transition to a better position or go for finish the fight submissions.

THIS HAS GOT TO GO...

3. Chain Wrestling System

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How It's Implemented
The way I see chain wrestling being best implemented is through fighter perks, but I also see it being able to be done through the fighter grappling move lvls too. Like for example how fighters have stuff like bjj transitions, wrestling transitions, ect at certain levels. So you could have like chain wrestling transitions lvl 1-5. Anyway that would be a next good way to implement it, but lets say its done through perks for now. The perks would represent the lvl of chain wrestling. So you'll have the perk "chain wrestling" at lvl's 1-5. Each lvl would also represent the amount of chain transitions a fighter can attempt. So if a fighter has the chain wrestling perk at lvl 2 for example, he'll be able to attempt 2 chain transitions. And no that doesn't mean the defending fighter will have to defend 2 chain attempts, which brings me to how the system would work...



How It Works
A fighter with the chain wrestling perk will only be able to chain his attempts if the defenders denial isn't early or well timed. Each chain transition attempt will cost stamina. So just to be clear, anything not denied early/well timed (and thus late) allows another attempt for a fighter with chain wrestler perk. Straight up mis-timed denials will just lead to td's. So for example, lets say Khabib (who would have chain wrestler lvl 5 perk) shoots in on Conor and Conor denies late. Not denying early/well timed now puts Conor in a compromising position, where Khabib can try to chain into something else that Conor will have to defend again. Lets take a look at some visual examples...

Early Denials
An early or well timed denial by the defender will always lead to a sprawl by them...

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Late Denials
Any denial input not early/well timed will end up with the defender in a compromising position(where he has to defend again) and put an attacker with chain wrestling in a position where he can attempt a chain transition. Below we see Sakuraba shoot in for a single, which is denied late by Cro Cop. Because of the late denial, Sakuraba's chain wrestling is initiated and he is left in a position(still holding onto the single leg) where he can attempt to chain wrestle, while Cro Cop is stuck in a position where he has to defend again. Sakuraba chain transitions to a single leg finish, which Cro Cop doesn't defend and takes him down...

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Now remember depending on the perk lvl of chain wrestling a fighter has, they can attempt up to 5 chain transitions. However those chains only go on if the defender keeps denying late. If defender denies the initial td attempt or any chain transition attempt early or well timed, they'll escape.




Chain Wrestling Positions
Now for chain wrestling positions. These are positions the attacker and defender will end up in once a chain wrestling is initiated. Remember chain wrestling only initiates on late denials by the defender. So lets look at a few chain wrestling positions...


Single Leg Positions
Fighters will end up in these positions on late denied single leg attempts by the defender...

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Double leg Positions
Fighters will end up in these positions after a late denied double leg attempt

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These are just the base positions, but there would be more positions fighters could end up in based on which transition attempt was denied, where they are and how deep they are into the chain wrestling.



Chain Wrestling Transitions
So depending on the lvl of chain wrestling the fighter has, they'll be able to chain transition into various moves...

Single Leg Finish (from single leg position)

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Double Leg Finish (from double leg position)

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Double Leg Switch to Single Leg(from double leg position)

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Single Leg Switch to Double Leg(from single leg position)

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Double Under Clinch (from single leg & double leg positions)

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Switch to High Single Leg Trip (from single leg position)

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Drive to Cage (from single leg & double leg positions)

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Defenders Options
As the defender, once you're stuck in a chain wrestling position, your options are pretty limited. You can either transition to a break or defend the chain transition. Remember, what will make the chain wrestling effective is that these chain transitions will all be denied in different directions, making it a very precarious position to be in as the defender.


So not everything, just the basic stuff I invision for chain wrestling in the game. Really hope the devs are looking into it, as its something that could really open the flood gates for the td system and grappling.

4. Quick Shuffle for Circling/Cutting

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The Way it Works: So similar to the quick retreat(the new backward evasive movement we got in the recent patch), holding the two shoulder buttons and moving your fighter laterally will result in your fighter quickly shuffling to the desired side. And just like the quick retreat, this movement will have increased speed, keep your defenses up and will drain stamina. The general movement should look like this...

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Using the Quick Shuffle to Circle off or Cut off the Cage: So pretty much the main thing this movement can be used for is to circle off or to cut off the cage like irl. So as a fighter who's back is headed towards or against the cage, you can simply use the quick shuffle to escape and circle off to your left/right. Below we see Wonderboy gets a bit stuck by the cage and uses the quick shuffle along the cage to his right to relieve Woodleys pressure...

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In another scenario, we see both guys using it. Weidman lands a kick that backs Machida into the cage and Machida quickly shuffles to his right. Weidman responds with a quick shuffle of his own in that direction, cutting off the cage...

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Using Head Movement and Lunges with the Quick Shuffle:Along with using the quick shuffle to escape in a certain direction, you would also be able to tie head movement into it and lunge out of it. So for example, say you're stuck against the cage and begin quick shuffling to a side to escape. If your opponent charges in with a strike and you see it coming, you would be able to slip the strike with head movement (in all directions except back of course) while shuffling or lunge out of the shuffle in the desired direction. Below is a visual example of Woodley using head movement while quick shuffling, to slip a Wonderboy left straight...

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In another gif, we see Wonderboy shuffling to his right and quickly lunging out of it to his left to avoid a Hendricks right hand...

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Stats and the Quick Shuffle: Like most things, this movement will also be affected by fighters stats. So for example, Wonderboy will have a faster quick shuffle than say Maia, because of his higher footwork stat. Or Anderson Silva will have quicker slips out of the quick shuffle than DC does, because of his higher head movement stat.

5. Position Holding System on Ground

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How It Works
Firstly, the controls would be simple...block and hold the right stick left/right to hold position. Position holding will work hand in hand with the current system, so it will just be another option. You'll be able to hold position or deny at your own choice. Also if you're holding position, you'd be able to let go at any time to attempt a denial. Of course you'd have to be denying in time before the opponents transition goes through. The way I see this being implemented into the current EA UFC grappling system is by allowing it in certain positions only. Like more simple positions where we see guys trying to hold position irl. The upside to holding position is it will allow you to block any transition attempts. The downside is that blocking transitions with it won't grant GA like denials do and that it will also drain your short term stamina. Once your short term stamina drops below a certain threshold, transitions will automatically get through. This will make position holding more of a thing that has to be used strategically.



Positions It Could Be Used In
The positions I think holding can be used in are the more basic ones and the ones we see fighters try to hold and maintain irl.


Top Positions
Holding position from top would be able to be done postured down or after you break an opponents posture control.

DOM Full Guard: As you can see in the gif below, guy on top keeping his head/body down on the opponent to maintain pressure, stay heavy and hold position...

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DOM Half Guard: In gif A, we see a close up look at head & arm control, which is used a lot in half guard and side control to keep pressure on and hold opponents down to maintain position. Then in gif B, see how the top fighter passes to half guard and right away grabs that same head & arm control, to hold down the opponent and maintain his new position.

A

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B

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DOM Side Control
Just like in the half guard, head & arm control is used a lot in side control to keep pressure on opponents and maintain position. Below we see it being used by the guy on top to maintain control of his opponent...

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These are the three top positions I feel could use position holding. All other more difficult to hold top positions like mount, back mount, crucifix, ect would use strictly directional denials.


Bottom Positions
Now position holding would be more situational from bottom, as you'd only be able to do it when the top fighter's posture is down.

SUB Full Guard
Bottom fighter would use body locks or head&arm control from bottom to try and keep the top guy controlled...

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SUB Half Guard
Similar to the full guard, bottom fighter would use body locks or head&arm control to try and keep the top guy controlled...

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SUB Side Control
Now holding from side control bottom will work a bit differently. You'd only be able to block certain transitions in this position, as you can't really "hold" from here. It would let you put a knee up as the bottom fighter, blocking all transitions in the direction of your body. So that means it'll block mount transition, kimura, ect...

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SUB Full Mount
This should really only block posture up attempts by the DOM. We already have holding from mount bottom, but it doesn't really block the posture up attempts...its like one attempt and they get out.

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These are the bottom positions that I feel could use position holding. All other bottom positions would use strictly directional denials.





So those are my idea's on how position holding could work. Just some thoughts, as lots of players including myself, miss that aspect of the grappling from UD3 where it had that immersive feel of struggle and trying to control an opponent.

6. More Submissions & Submission Reversals

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Suloev Stretch

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Kimura from DOM Half Guard(would be cool if you could switch to straight armbar like in gif)

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Arm Triangle from DOM Side Control

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Arm Triangle from DOM Mount

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Flying Rear Naked Choke (Standing)

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Flying Guillotine Choke (Standing)

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Standing Guillotine Choke

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Darce Choke from DOM Sprawl

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Counter Darce Choke from DOM Half Guard Postured Up (reversal against SUB transition to underhook & sweep)

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Counter Darce Choke from DOM Side Control (reversal against SUB single leg/sprawl/getup transitions)

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Counter Guillotine from DOM Side Control (reversal against SUB single leg/sprawl/getup transitions)

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Counter Guillotine from SUB Cage Double/Single Leg (reversal against DOM cage double/single leg td's)

https://giant.gfycat.com/SkinnyMixedAlligatorgar.webm

7. More Grappling Transitions & Positions: I want to see more positions like the seated cage, quarterguard, butterfly guard, body triangle, back clinch against cage, upside down crucifix, ect. And more transitions like pulling guard from clinch, transition to knee on belly from side control, transition to butterfly guard from half guard, ect. Things have to be fleshed out more.


8. Actual Driving TD's & More TD Variety
We need to have td's that actually drive the opponent back and end in a td, shrug off, sprawl, clinch or against the cage. Would also like to see some different td animations for some fighters...right now everything looks the same.

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9. PRIDE FC: Almost forgot this one cuz I really don't see it happening, but thanks to 1212's post, I remembered. But I'd really like to see Pride show itself in this series at some point. To play as guys like Cro Cop, Big Nog, Coleman, Fedor, ect, in their primes and to cross the UFC guys over to fight under the pride ruleset in EA UFC would be great. Can't beat having the best of both worlds...

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10. Actual Prime Versions of Icon Fighters:

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We need prime versions of some of these icon fighters in not just stats, but their models too in their appropriate attire (vale tudo shorts) and all. Like a prime model Wanderlei, prime model Cro Cop, prime Big Nog, ect...not the old guys with prime stats.

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Well those are the things i'd like to see. As I stated above when I mentioned universe mode, i'm more of a versus gameplay guy, so my wants are gonna revolve around gameplay. As you can see some of these are my idea's and some are things from Undisputed 3. So not to poke at EA or anything, but I have said this many times...while THQ may not have been perfect or have the perfect gameplay, UFC Undisputed 3 set the perfect blueprint for what should be possible in a good AAA MMA game. If EA just simply add's what they had going on in UD3 along with their own brilliant idea's, they can't go wrong. I'm not talking how the systems worked, i'm talking about the things you could do. The positions, the transitions, ground sways, sub reversals, ect....all the above. Just follow the blueprint EA.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

One thing I wanted to remind you guys: The needs are MUST HAVES. Meaning that you will strongly consider not buying the game if that feature or improvement isnt added.

So if a "better rock system" is something that would keep you from buying the game if it isnt in....its a need. If its something that you would like to see but would still buy the game if it wasnt added...its a want.

Well you're asking pretty devout neckbeards who are highly invested in the series. Realistically speaking, the only way people here won't buy it is if it's the exact same game with number "4" on it.

From a more general perspective, I would imagine the following are top priorities.

1) Overhauled grappling
2) More meaningful offline modes/content
3) Bigger emphasis on CAFs on Ultimate Team

[MacAttack33]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Need: overhauled grappling - clinching and on the ground.

Wants: Better head movement in the standup, better controls for standup.

Improved AI for more fun offline.

Universe mode.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Need: More animations for both grappling and strikes. A lot more signature stances and techniques. Build upon what’s already there and add way more grappling positions.

In depth CAF. Tbh what keeps me invested in sports game is the ability to use updated rosters. The ability to add prospects and update the roster myself is a big deal.

In depth sliders with the ability to save them. Another big one that adds a ton of replay value for me. I hate the fact that we’re essentially forced to play ranked because the other modes are so bad.

Wants:
A universe /franchise mode would be the DREAM. Let us choose between controlling one fighter, controller a gym, or controlling an organization. There are other MMA simulation games out there that they could draw a lot of ideas from. Make everything fully customizable like 2k. I would literally preorder the game if this was confirmed.

The ability to edit the roster (ratings and tendencies)for offline play. BRUH if this was possible i’d be able to play the game year round until the next one comes out. I wouldnt care at all about tendencies or ratings since I could do them myself.

UT mode to go back to UFC 2 style. Who ever thought of the changes for UFC 3 UT needs to have several seats. They completely ruined a pretty fun mode.

[1212headkick]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Needs


Better footwork ( v step and l step shuffle step)
Better clinch
In depth tutorial and practice with a friend
More ground positions
Better blocking
Practice by by position
Esports events


Wants
Pride mode
Better career
Updated character models
New modes

[GamingPractitioner]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

maybe fix the tracking on some strikes

[RematchKing]

Re: UFC 4: Needs vs. Wants

Everything these guys have said and a 1:1 ratio if it isn’t already. I’d like to see drastically boosted frame rates as well.

I love this game, but there are some tactics that are really annoying and they come from the “META” that the rules of the game create. The Devs didn’t intend this, but some players noticed it and exploited it and it became known. There are many of these little “exploits”.