Why are there no Classic versions of fighters?

[Find_the_Door]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

Really? From 00-08, Nog fought 30 different guys. Out of those guys, 4 were considered top level BJJ practitioners: Inoue, Werdum, Barnett and Mir. Fedor was a solid submission grappler but I wouldnt consider BJJ to be in "full force at the time". The majority were catch wrestlers, kickboxers or greco roman wrestlers. So I would argue that most of the people that Nog was facing were at a real disadvantage back then. This isnt like Maia dominating fighters today where the gap is smaller. I know he's your favorite guy but the truth is MMA was in a much different place in those days.

Werdum was one of the best in the world and Nogueira handled him in that match. Everyone was training and learning Jiu-Jitsu. To say that Nog was a product of era is patently false. A prime Minotauro would have immense success in today's heavyweight division.

To say Nogueira was the same fighter in 08' that he was in 03' is ridiculous. This has nothing to do with him being my favorite fighter it's just objective fact.

Everyone wants to down play his win over Werdum - bologna! Werdum was a world champ at the time and the fight was contested all over the place.

Nogueira Barnett is still some of the best Heavyweight grappling we've ever seen to this day. To say that these guys today would have a field day against either in their prime is so false.

Overeem seems to have ascended with time in this division - heck he was having trouble with the bums of Pride back then as a Middle weight and even jumped a weight class and has had a ton of success with today's fighters.

Sorry but the sport hasn't drastically changed, nor has it gotten that much better talent wise - if anything it's gotten worse in that aspect.

[sevcrane]

The best bjj practitioners fought in the 2000s
Marcelo garcia
Marcio cruz
Alexandre Ribeiro
Mario Sperry
André Galvão
Vítor Ribeiro
All the gracies

And id say everyweight division has evolved by so much except for the heavyweight division.

Mark kerr
Igor
Fedor
Nog
Cro cop

Can definitely last in the ufc in their primes in fighters like mark hunt etc are top 10

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by Find_the_Door

Werdum was one of the best in the world and Nogueira handled him in that match. Everyone was training and learning Jiu-Jitsu. To say that Nog was a product of era is patently false. A prime Minotauro would have immense success in today's heavyweight division. To say Nogueira was the same fighter in 08' that he was in 03' is ridiculous. This has nothing to do with him being my favorite fighter it's just objective fact. Everyone wants to down play his win over Werdum - bologna! Werdum was a world champ at the time and the fight was contested all over the place. Nogueira Barnett is still some of the best Heavyweight grappling we've ever seen to this day. To say that these guys today would have a field day against either in their prime is so false. Overeem seems to have ascended with time in this division - heck he was having trouble with the bums of Pride back then as a Middle weight and even jumped a weight class and has had a ton of success with today's fighters. Sorry but the sport hasn't drastically changed, nor has it gotten that much better talent wise - if anything it's gotten worse in that aspect.

You are arguing points I'm not making. I gave him credit for beating guys like Barnett and Werdum (even though Werdum wasnt as well rounded as he was when he won the UFC belt back then).

My point was that 26 of the 30 fighters he faced in his prime werent well rounded. They were one discipline fighters. Nog was more well rounded than they were and that played a role in his dominance.

Im not saying Nog in his prime would get run over by any of the current HW. With that said, I dont think he would be as dominant as he was. I feel the same way about Fedor too.

[sevcrane]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

You are arguing points I'm not making. I gave him credit for beating guys like Barnett and Werdum (even though Werdum wasnt as well rounded as he was when he won the UFC belt back then). My point was that 26 of the 30 fighters he faced in his prime werent well rounded. They were one discipline fighters. Nog was more well rounded than they were and that played a role in his dominance. Im not saying Nog in his prime would get run over by any of the current HW. With that said, I dont think he would be as dominant as he was. I feel the same way about Fedor too.

True but heavyweights today are not really well rounded either nog and fedor could very well have beaten stipe and be champions

[aholbert32]

Quote: Originally Posted by sevcrane

True but heavyweights today are not really well rounded either nog and fedor could very well have beaten stipe and be champions

I'd argue that Cain, Stipe, JDS and Werdum are very well rounded.

[Find_the_Door]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I'd argue that Cain, Stipe, JDS and Werdum are very well rounded.

Cain? He's got decent boxing and is a great wrestler that's really no different than Big Nog (decent boxing great Jiu-Jitsu).

Stipe is a very great technical striker but really isn't a dominating grappler (he holds his own). But Cro Cop was a more powerful striker without a good of footwork. Not a whole lot separating them.

JDS had a short stint of dominating as a power puncher but largely was exposed for not offering much in the clinch or on the mats.

Werdum evolved into a above average technical striker but has always been one of the greatest to ever do it on the mats. He's ultimately a specialist that found a striking style that suits him.


Not sure why people seems to think these current Heavyweights are world beaters. The division is extremely shallow on talent.

[sevcrane]

Quote: Originally Posted by aholbert32

I'd argue that Cain, Stipe, JDS and Werdum are very well rounded.

Overeem aswell good submissions and takedown defense

[Dave_S]

I'm talking about light heavyweights smashing Prime Nog. I'm sure there is a few middleweights that would as well.