HUGE NEWS!!!

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I don't know the exact numbers, but ESPN didn't get outsold by the ridiculous 7-1 or 10-1 margins it did just two years ago. And if you're looking at just the XBox & PS2 sales numbers, the difference is a million or so in units. A SIGNIFICANT drop compared to two years ago. It's not just because the "same people that buy Madden continued to do so". If we were to go back to last August, I remember there being a lot of dissatisfaction and impatience among Madden fans on the game's lack of forward progress. EA wanted to protect it's market position and rather than doing it "on the field", by letting their game speak for itself, they have chosen to try to eliminate competition altogether - so that there's nothing for Madden to be compared to.

You know, two years ago, they didn't have the ESPN license.

Two years ago ESPN didn't have the presentation it does now.

Two years ago the price wasn't $20.

Point being, there were a lot of factors that increased sales this year, and to only say it's b/c people realized it was the "better game" is just silly. Not saying you did, but there are plenty making that claim here in this thread alone.

Looking at the NPD sales numbers last year for December ALONE:

PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 935,719
PS2 ESPN NFL 2K5 283,535

XBX MADDEN NFL 2005 302,994
XBX ESPN NFL 2K5 159,994

Combined that's:

MADDEN NFL 2005 1,238,713
ESPN NFL 2K5 443,529

While you're right, that's nowhere near 10-1, no one can honestly say the numbers for ESPN would be higher if the price was $49.99....

[NINJAK2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

You know, two years ago, they didn't have the ESPN license. Two years ago ESPN didn't have the presentation it does now. Two years ago the price wasn't $20. Point being, there were a lot of factors that increased sales this year, and to only say it's b/c people realized it was the "better game" is just silly. Not saying you did, but there are plenty making that claim here in this thread alone. Looking at the NPD sales numbers last year for December ALONE: PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 935,719 PS2 ESPN NFL 2K5 283,535 XBX MADDEN NFL 2005 302,994 XBX ESPN NFL 2K5 159,994 Combined that's: MADDEN NFL 2005 1,238,713 ESPN NFL 2K5 443,529 While you're right, that's nowhere near 10-1, no one can honestly say the numbers for ESPN would be higher if the price was $49.99....

Didn't Madden drop their price by 20 bones that month Pared or a month or two previously? If that's the case couldn't you say that Madden may not have moved that many units during that time if it weren't for the price drop?

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by NINJAK2

Didn't Madden drop their price by 20 bones that month Pared or a month or two previously? If that's the case couldn't you say that Madden may not have moved that many units during that time if it weren't for the price drop?

Aha young grasshopper... now we are thinking!

Can you not see how a lot of higher sales were directly correlated by the price? (The answer is yes, BTW) In years past, Madden STILL had those sales. But a big portion of Sega's jump in sales had to do with:

1) Name recognition
2) Price

Madden STILL outsold ESPN when the price was $49.99 vs. $20.... but again, price and the ESPN name had a lot more to do with giving people incentive to "try" the game, not b/c it was the "better game."

The two games were so close it's disgusting. But people make comments as if playing one vs. the other was like night and day... and that's not really a fair assessment.

[Afroman4ever]

Quote: Originally Posted by grunt

What I am saying that it does make a diffrence and I ahve both game also. Its less drops and it make the short and meduim passing game more effective. So, its cool to disagree. Peace

Sorry friend...we will have to agree to disagree...I've played in countless leagues and played many players in the Top 100 on ESPN and in all those games I may have seen one or two manual catches...No offense to CPU catchers but why manual catch when it makes not a lick of difference.

1. The control of the player while the ball is in midflight is awkward at best.
2. The player receiveing the ball is always in great position...So why move and/or manipulate him.
3. The CPU does a great job and rarely drops the ball.

I won't lie...I CPU catch exclusively on ESPN and am not ashamed to admit it...Not because I can't manuallly do it but because I see no reason to...I have very few drops, if any, and you literally do more harm than good when attempting a manual catch.

I'd simply like to see a game promote more manual user interaction instead of the point and click method of ESPN. I still like the game because its football smart but its not being able to do somethings manually that makes the game frustrating (i.e. Chasing ball carriers from behind).

[NINJAK2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

Aha young grasshopper... now we are thinking! Can you not see how a lot of higher sales were directly correlated by the price? (The answer is yes, BTW) In years past, Madden STILL had those sales. But a big portion of Sega's jump in sales had to do with: 1) Name recognition 2) Price Madden STILL outsold ESPN when the price was $49.99 vs. $20.... but again, price and the ESPN name had a lot more to do with giving people incentive to "try" the game, not b/c it was the "better game." The two games were so close it's disgusting. But people make comments as if playing one vs. the other was like night and day... and that's not really a fair assessment.

I think both games are good and both games have some issues. It is all about preference in regards to what issues are more detrimental to one's enjoyment of the game.

It is obvious that 2k5's price was a big factor in their increased sales this year. While it wasn't the sole reason, it certainly got people to pay them attention last year. On top of the game being cheap, it was also pretty darn good imo. There are plenty of titles that release at a low price tag, but that didn't guarantee good sales. I think this also speaks well for the success that 2k5 experienced.

[NINJAK2]

Quote: Originally Posted by Afroman4ever

Sorry friend...we will have to agree to disagree...I've played in countless leagues and played many players in the Top 100 on ESPN and in all those games I may have seen one or two manual catches...No offense to CPU catchers but why manual catch when it makes not a lick of difference. 1. The control of the player while the ball is in midflight is awkward at best. 2. The player receiveing the ball is always in great position...So why move and/or manipulate him. 3. The CPU does a great job and rarely drops the ball. I won't lie...I CPU catch exclusively on ESPN and am not ashamed to admit it...Not because I can't manuallly do it but because I see no reason to...I have very few drops, if any, and you literally do more harm than good when attempting a manual catch. I'd simply like to see a game promote more manual user interaction instead of the point and click method of ESPN. I still like the game because its football smart but its not being able to do somethings manually that makes the game frustrating (i.e. Chasing ball carriers from behind).

I understand now Afro but are you saying that manual catching in Madden is essential for success? If you don't switch to the receiver are you bound to watch the cpu miss another opportunity for a completion with a drop? I mean, do you want the CPU receivers to run bad routes or something? People would then complain about the stupid A.I. of the receivers. Are you saying you want the cpu catch rate be less successful if you don't switch and more beneficial if you do?

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by NINJAK2

I think both games are good and both games have some issues. It is all about preference in regards to what issues are more detrimental to one's enjoyment of the game.

Best quote there i've seen to sum up the "great debate" in these forums in a long while..

[Afroman4ever]

Quote: Originally Posted by NINJAK2

I understand now Afro but are you saying that manual catching in Madden is essential for success? If you don't switch to the receiver are you bound to watch the cpu miss another opportunity for a completion with a drop? I mean, do you want the CPU receivers to run bad routes or something? People would then complain about the stupid A.I. of the receivers. Are you saying you want the cpu catch rate be less successful if you don't switch and more beneficial if you do?

I'm not sure if you can recall Madden 2002 but that was probably IMO EA's last decent Madden..In Madden 2002..Manual catching was clearly the difference between the so so player, good player and great player. If you were able to manually catch the ball and adjust your routes with good stick control you seperated yourself from those ballers that now simply rely on the cpu to do it all for them. Madden 2002 was the last game where I actually practiced certain skills on O and D because it actually made a difference.

If you remember Madden 2002 you will also recall that the ball trajectory was nice in that if someone attempted to press cover you all day you could throw a fade and most importantly go aND MANUALLY GET IT...You could throw alot of different TOUCH passes. It wasn't automatic or money but you at least had an option as opposed to the constant press coverage that now simply dumbs down the game IMO. Now Madden has that line drive ball trajectory mess that simply is goofy to me. Not to mention press coverage is the norm which means no curls, hooks or intermediate routes other than the crossing routes. In the versions after 2002 they effed up the ball trajectory and made CPU catching more prevalent.

Again..I'm not gonna completely bash either game because IMO at the end of the day its about which game you can stomach the longest...I enjoyed ESPN more this year but thats not saying much because at this point ESPN kinda bores me and is simply missing that longevity factor I look for when playing a football game.

In terms of Manual catching I'm simply asking that the game be developed in a manner where there is a greater reward for manually doing things on your own. If a baller wants to cpu catch etc..Thats fine by me...Thats their perrogative but for those of us who want to spend time breaking down the mental aspect of the game as well as the stick control portion of the game there should be bigger/greater reward.

Example..If you and I know X's and O's equally as well the difference in who should win the game should almost always be the baller with better stick control and the ability to manually makeplays and/or enhance the effectiveness of a play.