Quantum Theory and ESPN Football 2K5

[MagicUser]

There seem to be a number of people that are having trouble with the Franchise/GM AI in this years game. Most claim that it is unrealistic. For me this raises the question the question, "What is real?"

I mean does realistic mean "highly probable" as in a game is realistic if things occur as they probably would in real life? Does that mean that it should not be possible for the game AI that have never been done in the NFL? To use an example I have seen on the boards today, is it realistic for TO to be traded for D.Brees? It does not seem likely to me, but it does not seem like impossible madness- I can imagine it happening without my brain exploding. Trading Farve for Grossman? Is that crazy or just a possible but silly thing to do. I mean Grossman is younger....etc.

Miyamoto has a semi-famous theory of game design based around the idea of the Game World- the idea (as I remember it) that the best games create a consistent world in which the player can participate. I like this theory and I think it, in part, explains why sports games are so darn popular. They came with a "world" which most potential players are already know. The World of Professional Football, The World of MLB, The World of College Football, etc. But here is the problem- everybody sees a slightly different World of Professional Football than everybody else. We have different experiences with the sport, have seen different things, etc. Something one person would consider "unreal" and "impossible" may well have actually occurred in real life, but before that person's time. Another person , who has knowledge of this "unreal" occurrence might not find it "unreal" at all but rather "unlike". A third person with a still different vision of the game may find the occurrence "likely" or common place.


When a new sports game is released, and we hear something like "this will be the most realistic sports game ever" or "this is the best SIMULATION of football, ever" we all get excited. We assume that things will play out in the game exactly as we THINK they play out in reality. Since we all have different ideas of what exactly "real" is, some or all of us are going to be disappointed because something just is not going to feel right.

I think it is not possible to create a realistic football game (or any other sports title) because there is no one, single model of "real" to follow. The complex web of subtle and not so subtle forces that go into any decision (like a trade between two teams) can not be rendered as easily as a football uniform. For example, if the Trade AI in any of the last year's basketball games had traded Shaq to Miami for Grant, Odom and Butler, how much complaining would there have been about bad Trading AI? You just don't trade Shaq. Even profession sports reporters where saying "You just don't trade Shaq". Well he was traded. And traded for reasons (personal, emotional) that just aren't programmed into our sports titles. We can't get that real.

But we want the real. How many hours do many of us spend, making rosters and editing uniforms and tweaking sliders and figuring out the perfect sim quarter length to get "realistic" stats...all for nothing I think. A few years ago I adopted a different attitude towards sports games (after spending the better part of two full days editing Madden rosters on my PS1). I call it the Quantum Theory of Sports Gaming. When I got ESPN 2K5 I assumed it represents an alternate universe that is very similar to the real NFL, but isn't. Kind of like the show Sliders. Whatever the roster cut-off date for the game is I assume that is where the alternate world spun off, and where my gaming starts. So I don't bother with roster insanity for the sake of aping reality. The way I figure it after I start a Franchise and play or sim one game my Franchise is already unrealistic, unless some how it produces results identical to what happened (or will happen) when the game is really played. It is not going to happen, so why bother?

I am interested to hear what each of you think is the "least realistic" thing you have seen in ESPN NFL2K5 this year. I am also interested in hearing how many people agree that it is not realistic....but the bottom line is we all need to wake up to the fact that things are going to occur in the game which we find bizarre. You can either deal with, remembering that is a game, not the NFL, or you can just wait for "the perfect football gaming experience". Just don't hold your breath.

[Bacardi151]

Damn that almost made me cry.

I agree 100%. There is no one right way. And unfortunately people want a game to take in all types of variables which simply cannot be crunched and calculated into a stat.

I have been using your "theory" for years now. I have the real human season playing out in the real world. I want to see how my alternate universe plays out.

I can understand the strange turn of events when one team has 2 of the top qb's in the league on their team, but you still have to remember its a game. I cant count the number of wacked out things i have seen in games the last 20+ years.

Sometimes it's nice to have things a little crazy.

[wayne23]

Nice post Magicuser.

[Rocky]

I'm confused

[Skyboxer]

Very Nice post...

[mgoblue]

great post MagicUser

I really enjoyed reading that, and I agree with you 100%. Made me think a bit too, which is always good

[RoyalBoyle78]

good post man, but I don't think you know what real is or at least close to it, sorry.
First of all trades every day in the NFL don't happen and THEY NEVER WILL, so there is one for you, and another thing no one expects there Franchise to go just as there real NFL team in real Life, but make its rules as real life should be, and trading after every week in the NFL just does not happen. We all know this is a game and you can't have everything as real as The REAl NFL but just don't let bone head moves like this happen, because these types of moves would NEVER happen in real life. So yeah some of us would like the trade thing to be better, but im keeping it REAL so should you. SEGA/VC screwed up on this part of the game no matter what you think, thats how I see it, so lets stop trying to defend this era in the game and like I said keep it real, cause im keeping it real

[backbreaker]

Thanks Magic, thats the way I approach it as well. And, this is the reason I never chime in on impression threads.