PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

[WickedFastball]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

This was shot down. The running game is being built from the ground up, the entire game is not.

I thought they were talking about the PS3 version when they said they ripped out all the base running code?
And I was under the impression that the PS4 version was "from the ground up" is this really incorrect?
I can understand them porting over the stadiums and things like that though.

[mikelecrenski]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

Russell is really behind the times because I had my PS4 Dev kit back in 2008 to start making my indie b&w stick ball game. Has all the latest players and street stadiums. I feel it could blow the show out of the water!

[nemesis04]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

I thought they were talking about the PS3 version when they said they ripped out all the base running code?
And I was under the impression that the PS4 version was "from the ground up" is this really incorrect?
I can understand them porting over the stadiums and things like that though.

Stadiums are definitely something I do not see them porting over, all your graphics get redone especially with all the texturing the PS4 can handle. A lot of the under the hood type items like game logic, I could see being brought over.

[WickedFastball]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

Stadiums are definitely something I do not see them porting over, all your graphics get redone especially with all the texturing the PS4 can handle. A lot of the under the hood type items like game logic, I could see being brought over.

Thats the stuff I was hoping was going to be rewritten.
Either way, I don't think very much at all is really going to be carried over.

[nemesis04]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

Thats the stuff I was hoping was going to be rewritten.
Either way, I don't think very much at all is really going to be carried over.

Ok good to know!

[seanjeezy]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

With the PS4 having x86 architecture I could see the dev team working on PC initially and porting over when dev kits were handed out, especially with the PS4's "time to triangle" (aka porting speed) being 6x faster than that of the PS3 according to Mark Cerny.

Care to chime in Russell?

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

With the PS4 having x86 architecture I could see the dev team working on PC initially and porting over when dev kits were handed out, especially with the PS4's "time to triangle" (aka porting speed) being 6x faster than that of the PS3 according to Mark Cerny.



Care to chime in Russell?

I am not a programming expert, but I can tell you that cell or x86, both are worked on a PC initially.

Remember there are millions of lines of code that need to be ported, changed and manipulated from cell architecture to x86. I am guessing that, until dev kits are in hand and code is optimized and tested, doesn't matter anyway.

I am sure it is a giant task developing for a new system, especially for devs that are on yearly cycles.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[seanjeezy]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

I am not a programming expert, but I can tell you that cell or x86, both are worked on a PC initially.

Remember there are millions of lines of code that need to be ported, changed and manipulated from cell architecture to x86. I am guessing that, until dev kits are in hand and code is optimized and tested, doesn't matter anyway.

I am sure it is a giant task developing for a new system, especially for devs that are on yearly cycles.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm really hoping the change in architecture gave these guys the motivation to rip out all of the old code and start completely from scratch, or at the very least dump all of the code built around the CPU and memory limitations. After years of adding layer upon layer of code to the point where tweaking one line could break another I think its time for a fresh start.

[WickedFastball]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

I'm really hoping the change in architecture gave these guys the motivation to rip out all of the old code and start completely from scratch, or at the very least dump all of the code built around the CPU and memory limitations. After years of adding layer upon layer of code to the point where tweaking one line could break another I think its time for a fresh start.

Like Like Like
This is what I was saying earlier, no need for PS3 limitations.

[metsfan4life1]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

I strongly agree ^

[juicer420]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

I'm really hoping the change in architecture gave these guys the motivation to rip out all of the old code and start completely from scratch, or at the very least dump all of the code built around the CPU and memory limitations. After years of adding layer upon layer of code to the point where tweaking one line could break another I think its time for a fresh start.

I don't think there is a traditional CPU in the ps3. Cell processors are different. There is the PPE and SPEs in that architecture design. And basically, the instruction sets are different between Cell BE and x86. So in that sense, they have to change a lot. I'm not entirely sure if they have to start completely over or not, but I would assume they reuse what they can. The actual game code stuff probably remains largely intact. Like the game logic and physics stuff. The game engine itself is probably just being upgraded rather than overhauled.

With the game still a few months out, it would be cool (for us tech nerds) to hear about the development process and everything they had to do to take this game to next gen.

Anyone know what programming language they use for the Show? I'm assuming C++. Most games are written in some variation of C, right?

[Knight165]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

I'm really hoping the change in architecture gave these guys the motivation to rip out all of the old code and start completely from scratch, or at the very least dump all of the code built around the CPU and memory limitations. After years of adding layer upon layer of code to the point where tweaking one line could break another I think its time for a fresh start.

There is.....

Like Like Like
This is what I was saying earlier, no need for PS3 limitations.

absolutely no way....

I strongly agree ^

...this could have been accomplished with a new console release and the new title release so close.

YEARS of code in just over 1 cycle?

Nope.
(not even a reasonable line of thought)

That's reason enough right there for PS3 code to be in the PS4 version of the game.
(unless of course you are unreasonable...and then you will continue on this line...)

.....I thought it was kind of a given that the "ground up" meant graphics.
SCEA is always rewriting portions of the code and AI for improvements...but does anyone really think it needs a TOTAL rewrite?
I definitely do not.

M.K.
Knight165

[juicer420]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

There is.....



absolutely no way....



...this could have been accomplished with a new console release and the new title release so close.

YEARS of code in just over 1 cycle?

Nope.
(not even a reasonable line of thought)

That's reason enough right there for PS3 code to be in the PS4 version of the game.
(unless of course you are unreasonable...and then you will continue on this line...)

.....I thought it was kind of a given that the "ground up" meant graphics.
SCEA is always rewriting portions of the code and AI for improvements...but does anyone really think it needs a TOTAL rewrite?
I definitely do not.

M.K.
Knight165

I don't either. This game is great and it would be a step backwards if they started over.

My assumption is that anything involved in how the machines operate and how the game operates on the machine, i.e. the change in architecture, has to be redesigned in some capacity. Everything else is either being ported over or being upgraded.

Like Russell said in the announcement trailer, the restraints are off and they can put everything they wanted to add in the PS3 on the PS4. If they started over, we would be lucky if they were able to make MLB 14 half as great as MLB 13.

[seanjeezy]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

There is.....



absolutely no way....



...this could have been accomplished with a new console release and the new title release so close.

YEARS of code in just over 1 cycle?

Nope.
(not even a reasonable line of thought)

That's reason enough right there for PS3 code to be in the PS4 version of the game.
(unless of course you are unreasonable...and then you will continue on this line...)

.....I thought it was kind of a given that the "ground up" meant graphics.
SCEA is always rewriting portions of the code and AI for improvements...but does anyone really think it needs a TOTAL rewrite?
I definitely do not.

M.K.
Knight165

Honestly I disagree with everything you just said Knight, and you know that I usually agree with you 100%. Basically the way I see it is that the current code is written in a way so that it takes full advantage of the PS3 and its "uniqueness". All of the tricks and shortcuts devs had to use will not longer be necessary. It would be one thing if the PS4 was just a PS3 with better specs but its not, its a completely different architecture that's main selling point is its ease of use. What might've taken years to build up on the PS3 could take months on PS4, there are articles out there mentioning devs getting builds up and running in a few weeks(!). And to me that is one of the more standout features of the hardware, less time spent fiddling around with the graphics engine means more time spent on the meat and potatoes, aka A.I. and physics.

Also, you might say otherwise but there is absolutely no way the dev team has only spent one cycle on the PS4 version. According to Cerny the hardware was finalized two years ago, and I'd find it hard to believe the devs wouldn't have at least started tinkering around with some new ideas at that point.

Maybe complete overhaul was the wrong choice of words, but anything less than major would be a little disappointing to me... The start of a new generation is the perfect time to make a big splash, otherwise if not now, when?

I don't either. This game is great and it would be a step backwards if they started over.

My assumption is that anything involved in how the machines operate and how the game operates on the machine, i.e. the change in architecture, has to be redesigned in some capacity. Everything else is either being ported over or being upgraded.

Like Russell said in the announcement trailer, the restraints are off and they can put everything they wanted to add in the PS3 on the PS4. If they started over, we would be lucky if they were able to make MLB 14 half as great as MLB 13.

This right here is what I was trying to get at, and one of my main points of contention is that piling on more code might be an acceptable short term fix, but in the long run it turns into a cluttered mess. How many times have we heard "Its not as simple as adding/removing X, it will break the game." How many times has Russell mentioned "we just ripped out X and started from scratch." SCEA SD has very talented programmers, why wouldn't they rip out giant blocks of complex code and streamline them to take advantage of the new hardware? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Of course keep the stuff that works, just redo the stuff that's covered in band-aids (Franchise mode, cough cough).

[metsfan4life1]

Re: PS4 Discussion (MLB The Show 14)

Honestly I disagree with everything you just said Knight, and you know that I usually agree with you 100%. Basically the way I see it is that the current code is written in a way so that it takes full advantage of the PS3 and its "uniqueness". All of the tricks and shortcuts devs had to use will not longer be necessary. It would be one thing if the PS4 was just a PS3 with better specs but its not, its a completely different architecture that's main selling point is its ease of use. What might've taken years to build up on the PS3 could take months on PS4, there are articles out there mentioning devs getting builds up and running in a few weeks(!). And to me that is one of the more standout features of the hardware, less time spent fiddling around with the graphics engine means more time spent on the meat and potatoes, aka A.I. and physics.

Also, you might say otherwise but there is absolutely no way the dev team has only spent one cycle on the PS4 version. According to Cerny the hardware was finalized two years ago, and I'd find it hard to believe the devs wouldn't have at least started tinkering around with some new ideas at that point.

Maybe complete overhaul was the wrong choice of words, but anything less than major would be a little disappointing to me... The start of a new generation is the perfect time to make a big splash, otherwise if not now, when?



This right here is what I was trying to get at, and one of my main points of contention is that piling on more code might be an acceptable short term fix, but in the long run it turns into a cluttered mess. How many times have we heard "Its not as simple as adding/removing X, it will break the game." How many times has Russell mentioned "we just ripped out X and started from scratch." SCEA SD has very talented programmers, why wouldn't they rip out giant blocks of complex code and streamline them to take advantage of the new hardware? Seems like a no-brainer to me. Of course keep the stuff that works, just get redo the stuff that's covered in band-aids (Franchise mode, cough cough).

I agree with you. Sadly, a lot of people do not speak up in here. And if they do, everyone jumps down their throats or just over rides the post.