Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

[A_Quiet_Pro]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

How does one hit this pitch? It seems like every game I play, the pitcher falls in love with the changeup, and it is impossible for me to pick up the difference between the changeup and fastball, leading a large number of strikeouts.

Any tips on hitting this pitch, or is changeups just OP?

Yeah, changeups in this game are crazy. Because the ball just doesn't fall like in previous iterations, it literally dies and drops. VERY tough to see that. (I know a lot of people dont like guess pitch, but this is one of the reasons I DO use it). If I correctly guess a low CH, all I do is see where the ball starts. If it's high enough, I just wait on it more and crush it... if it starts too low, I know it won't stay in the zone, so I lay off. (But then I do get pissed when it starts low, and doesn't drop as much as it should and stays a strike sometimes LOL). I'll be facing a pitcher and in the SAME game he'll throw a CH that drops a good 8 inches, then another one will only drop 3-4. It is very tough.

[MLB14]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

Yeah, changeups in this game are crazy. Because the ball just doesn't fall like in previous iterations, it literally dies and drops. VERY tough to see that. (I know a lot of people dont like guess pitch, but this is one of the reasons I DO use it). If I correctly guess a low CH, all I do is see where the ball starts. If it's high enough, I just wait on it more and crush it... if it starts too low, I know it won't stay in the zone, so I lay off. (But then I do get pissed when it starts low, and doesn't drop as much as it should and stays a strike sometimes LOL). I'll be facing a pitcher and in the SAME game he'll throw a CH that drops a good 8 inches, then another one will only drop 3-4. It is very tough.

Guess pitch penalizes you if you guess wrong though. That's why I don't use it. I prefer a pure result.

[HypoLuxa13]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

Guess pitch penalizes you if you guess wrong though. That's why I don't use it. I prefer a pure result.

I wish there was a better explanation of the rewards/penalties of the different Guess Pitch options. I try not to use it, but find myself turning it on more often than I'd like just to try and take some of the difficulty out of dealing with change ups. But I don't know what setting is best for a) actually getting help when guessing combined with b) not being penalized too much when guessing wrong.

[QuestGAV]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

So I'm noticing something significant as I'm going through doing pitch edits. I don't know if it was like this in previous editions of the game.

In real life, pitchers have a pretty wide range of both vertical and horizontal movement on their respective changeups according to Brooks. It looks like SCEA used some amalgamation of their vertical and horizontal movements to come up with a single movement rating for the pitch and weighted the two axes more or less evenly. It's suboptimal, but with one number to describe two different things happening that are more or less independent of each other I can see why they did it. Their ratings aren't very consistent with pitch F/X data but when I can see how they came up with their rating it appears they're at best equally rating Hmov and Vmov (with what looks like an emphasis on Hmov).

I created a guy that throws a change, a circle change, a splitter, vulcan change, and forkball. I threw a few dozen of each pitch at 5, 50, and 95 movement rating. As far as I can tell, the movement rating almost exclusively effects the ball's vertical movement. The "run" on the pitch appears to be relatively static regardless of the movement rating.

Because SCEA's movement rating is determined by movement on both axes but then represented in the Show as movement on just the vertical axis, changes with big horizontal run end up playing as changes with big vertical drop.

A few examples:
Tyler Clippard has a solid 6.3" Hmov and a very pedestrian 9.5" Vmov on his changeup (lower is better for Vmov). Somehow this earns him a 95 movement rating on his change from SCEA and his change in the Show has the floor fall out from underneath it.

Charlie Morton has a similar 6.1" Hmov and an impressive -0.9" Vmov rated as a 50 by SCEA. So his change that drops off the table IRL is very unremarkable in the show.

James Shields has a change with 7.7 Hmov and 4.3 Vmov. Rated as an 82 by SCEA.

Cole Hamels with 9.2 Hmov and 6.2 Vmov. 91 rating. Drops off the floor.

Jered Weaver with 5.6 Hmov and 8.8 Vmov. Gets a 74 rating.

Brandon League with 5.8 Hmov and -0.3 Vmov gets a 79.

So League and Weaver have in game changes that move similarly despite the fact that League's drops 8 inches more in real life. Hamels change in game drops crazily despite a relatively modest drop in real life compared to League.

Ugh. I think I have to rerate every changeup in the game because SCEA doesn't know horizontal from vertical.

[PhilliesFan13]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

So I'm noticing something significant as I'm going through doing pitch edits. I don't know if it was like this in previous editions of the game.

In real life, pitchers have a pretty wide range of both vertical and horizontal movement on their respective changeups according to Brooks. It looks like SCEA used some amalgamation of their vertical and horizontal movements to come up with a single movement rating for the pitch and weighted the two axes more or less evenly. It's suboptimal, but with one number to describe two different things happening that are more or less independent of each other I can see why they did it. Their ratings aren't very consistent with pitch F/X data but when I can see how they came up with their rating it appears they're at best equally rating Hmov and Vmov (with what looks like an emphasis on Hmov).

I created a guy that throws a change, a circle change, a splitter, vulcan change, and forkball. I threw a few dozen of each pitch at 5, 50, and 95 movement rating. As far as I can tell, the movement rating almost exclusively effects the ball's vertical movement. The "run" on the pitch appears to be relatively static regardless of the movement rating.

Because SCEA's movement rating is determined by movement on both axes but then represented in the Show as movement on just the vertical axis, changes with big horizontal run end up playing as changes with big vertical drop.

A few examples:
Tyler Clippard has a solid 6.3" Hmov and a very pedestrian 9.5" Vmov on his changeup (lower is better for Vmov). Somehow this earns him a 95 movement rating on his change from SCEA and his change in the Show has the floor fall out from underneath it.

Charlie Morton has a similar 6.1" Hmov and an impressive -0.9" Vmov rated as a 50 by SCEA. So his change that drops off the table IRL is very unremarkable in the show.

James Shields has a change with 7.7 Hmov and 4.3 Vmov. Rated as an 82 by SCEA.

Cole Hamels with 9.2 Hmov and 6.2 Vmov. 91 rating. Drops off the floor.

Jered Weaver with 5.6 Hmov and 8.8 Vmov. Gets a 74 rating.

Brandon League with 5.8 Hmov and -0.3 Vmov gets a 79.

So League and Weaver have in game changes that move similarly despite the fact that League's drops 8 inches more in real life. Hamels change in game drops crazily despite a relatively modest drop in real life compared to League.

Ugh. I think I have to rerate every changeup in the game because SCEA doesn't know horizontal from vertical.

Please post the changes if you do. Appreciated that last spreadsheet.

[bobloblah1980]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

Has there been ANY recognition from the guys over SDS about this? any plans to adjust the speed difference? Because this is brutal. I am not the best hitter in the world but until this year I have never had so many strikeouts the difference is way too much

[countryboy]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

Just out of curiousity, those who are having issues hitting the changeup, are you using quick counts?

I haven't had that much trouble, at least more than expected with changeups. Myself, I don't play with quick counts meaning I see every pitch. I struggled with pitches more in Spring Training than I have recently, as I believe that playing every game, seeing every pitch, I have adapted to the differences in pitches/breaks this year.

Another tip is that I believe that you really have to be "thinking/guessing" a pitch and react. I have not had so much fun hitting in a video baseball game than I am this year with the Show.

[QuestGAV]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

Just out of curiousity, those who are having issues hitting the changeup, are you using quick counts?

No, I use full counts.

[NewNapkin]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

I finally got the game today, and yeah, changeups are the devil this year. And for some reason, so are pitches in the dirt. I've developed really solid plate vision over the past couple of years in The Show, but I really have struggled so far.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

I finally got the game today, and yeah, changeups are the devil this year. And for some reason, so are pitches in the dirt. I've developed really solid plate vision over the past couple of years in The Show, but I really have struggled so far.

Glad you got the game and in my opinion you can in time adjust to the harder to hit pitches this year... After 100 games in franchise I hit as well as any year and like this years total experience way better than ever...

Mainly wanted to say that I love your avatar pic! My all time favourite pitcher and hope he is great for your Cubs!

[QuestGAV]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

Glad you got the game and in my opinion you can in time adjust to the harder to hit pitches this year... After 100 games in franchise I hit as well as any year and like this years total experience way better than ever...

Mainly wanted to say that I love your avatar pic! My all time favourite pitcher and hope he is great for your Cubs!

For what it's worth I don't think your other post was too negative, some of us are struggling but it's still worthwhile to know it's not universal.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

For what it's worth I don't think your other post was too negative, some of us are struggling but it's still worthwhile to know it's not universal.

Thanks, I want to reword it and make sure it comes across better. Also shorten it haha as sometimes less is more. Was worried I came across know it all like or saying I was great at the game.

It is more dificult this year and for me anything above All-Star hitting is not fun and frustrating. I also use timing directional hitting - zone hitting it may be way harder, analog seems about the same as I have tried that some.

I have had some hitting slumps in my first season. And it is definately more difficult this year than last to hit certain pitches. The game is a challenge, key is keeping the challenge and not getting to a frustration area or where we have a team batting average below .200. I would be beyond frustrated if striking out like twelve times a game and hitting below .200 for a season. I may have had stretches where the average was in the low twos but not for more than a series.

That strange spot where a game is tough and where it is rage worthy is hard to locate. A ton of video games never come close and it is so frustrating when one must play a game on a non challenging difficulty or want to throw your controller at the screen. In FIFA I have had moments of explicit language and rage that make Wayne Rooney seem calm and collected at even his worse

Thanks again for letting me know and the encouragement! Also, Go Celtics! Go Sox! I am a lifetime huge Sox fan, was born in Boston area.

[Keirik]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

To me, its still moreso that far too many pitchers in this game even have a change in their arsenal and rarel are any of them mediocre in nature.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

I agree that more pitchers should have a mediocre change up...

Just thought of something. I adjusted to this years game and hit pretty much the same as past years. But I changed the batting view and use a different one than ever before. In my opinion some batting views are almost impossible to use. After using the same view from 09-14 this year had to change it. Try some out because some you can see the break and speed a whole lot easier than others in my opinion anyhow. For me I like to see the whole batter but the larger the pitcher the easier to hit. My brother uses a super zoomed in view... Just a thought. Again what I used to use is really hard to use this year..

Have those of you having really bad problems with change ups and strike outs tried different batting views?

Just an idea...

[PhilliesFan13]

Re: Okay, we have to talk about it. Changeups.

I agree that more pitchers should have a mediocre change up...

Just thought of something. I adjusted to this years game and hit pretty much the same as past years. But I changed the batting view and use a different one than ever before. In my opinion some batting views are almost impossible to use. After using the same view from 09-14 this year had to change it. Try some out because some you can see the break and speed a whole lot easier than others in my opinion anyhow. For me I like to see the whole batter but the larger the pitcher the easier to hit. My brother uses a super zoomed in view... Just a thought. Again what I used to use is really hard to use this year..

Have those of you having really bad problems with change ups and strike outs tried different batting views?

Just an idea...

My team batting average is still only .190 through 16 games. I am getting grayer by the game and I am only 30. I am seriously getting to the point of not playing this anymore I am that frustrated. Why torture myself with something that is giving me a 0% fun factor right now?

Thanks, I want to reword it and make sure it comes across better. Also shorten it haha as sometimes less is more. Was worried I came across know it all like or saying I was great at the game.

It is more dificult this year and for me anything above All-Star hitting is not fun and frustrating. I also use timing directional hitting - zone hitting it may be way harder, analog seems about the same as I have tried that some.

I have had some hitting slumps in my first season. And it is definately more difficult this year than last to hit certain pitches. The game is a challenge, key is keeping the challenge and not getting to a frustration area or where we have a team batting average below .200. I would be beyond frustrated if striking out like twelve times a game and hitting below .200 for a season. I may have had stretches where the average was in the low twos but not for more than a series.

That strange spot where a game is tough and where it is rage worthy is hard to locate. A ton of video games never come close and it is so frustrating when one must play a game on a non challenging difficulty or want to throw your controller at the screen. In FIFA I have had moments of explicit language and rage that make Wayne Rooney seem calm and collected at even his worse

Thanks again for letting me know and the encouragement! Also, Go Celtics! Go Sox! I am a lifetime huge Sox fan, was born in Boston area.