From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

[cmutat17]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

So besides the K's being low, wheres the issue? You dont like seeing the overall number? The stats seem fine from what youre showing which is very limited. Colons ERA is actually really good. W-L is meaningless but seems realistic. Number of innings seems about right for both.

So the drop in over all from this limited amount of info doesnt translate to a players stats falling off a cliff just the meaningless overall number and estaic of that falling off a cliff..but people want more stats but base everything on overall? Im still very confused on what the issue is now.

I was expecting to see them with 6.0 ERAs and a million hits and no K's and everything tanking..seems like everything is ok though

You're right, aside from the W-L record being irrelevant the stats are realistic, but the rating drop is atrocious. Dickey and Colon are two of the most durable pitchers in baseball and suddenly after a year their overall drops from mid to low 80's to 67 each. The ratings mean everything in this game. It's what distinguishes between the good and the bad teams.

Youre right, I am ok with that..they will be 40+ retirement is a very strong possibility. I also dont have a problem with a decline in ratings if the stats arent tanking with them.

And no player is dropping 10-15 a month. Maybe 15-20 a year...but players arent droping 60-90 points a season, which is 10-15 a month

Go do your own simulation and at the end of the season go through every team and look for 35 and older players and try and convince me that that is a realistic drop-off.

[KBLover]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

It really matters. How is it not a problem if someone pitching like that is going to drop 10-15 every month

I want to see this.

Seriously - show a player who's dropped 15 points PER MONTH.

You're right, aside from the W-L record being irrelevant the stats are realistic, but the rating drop is atrocious. Dickey and Colon are two of the most durable pitchers in baseball and suddenly after a year their overall drops from mid to low 80's to 67 each. The ratings mean everything in this game. It's what distinguishes between the good and the bad teams.

And the ratings are what's having Colon and Dickey perform realistically.

Dickey's in the 60's only because of fielding and HR/9, which does nothing in "live" games (and if those are sim stats, it's apparently not hurting him there either).

In fact, if ratings were everything, how the heck did Colon post a 2.79 ERA with those /9 and pitch ratings?

And to whoever said that the AI will put 60's players in AA...I see 60's OVR players at the MLB level in my franchise. Depends on the club it seems.

[KBLover]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

Go do your own simulation and at the end of the season go through every team and look for 35 and older players and try and convince me that that is a realistic drop-off.

Here's 35+ yr old players in my Marlins franchise (currently in 2017), which was started in MLB14. I'm currently in early August in that season:

Here's some players (not going to list every 35+ aged player, but will sort by age to grab the oldest few) - all are at the MLB level unless noted. Some teams are young and don't have over 35 players. I do not do any 30-team control or other manipulation of CPU actions.

WAS:
1B LaRoche, 37 - no decline greater than -4, 65/B
SP Wainwright, 35 - no decline greater than -2 - still a 92/A player
1B Garritt Jones - no decline greater than -4 (and only in one rating), 73/C

CHN:
C John Baker, 36 - no decline greater than -2, 58/D (yes, he's in the majors)
C Luke Carlin, 36, AAA - no decline greater than -1, 60/D

CIN:
LF Jayson Werth, 37, no decline greater than -3, 73/A
2B Brandon Philips, 35, one -3, rest are -1, 85/B
C Brayan Pena, 35, no change at all (no pluses or minuses), 70/C

MIL:
CP Rafael Soriano, 37, -2's with a few -3's, 78/A
SP Eric Shoemaker, 35, -2s and -3s, 73/B

PIT:
CP Jason Grilli, 40, AA, a few -1's and a couple +1's, 60/A

STL:
2B Ben Zobrist, 35, mostly -1's, 87/B

ARZ:
LF Nelson Cruz, 36, -3's mostly, 74/B
RF Curtis Granderson, 35, mostly -1's, 84/B
SS Alexei Ramirez, 35, some -2's, some -1's, some no change, 80/B
RP Oliver Perez, 35, AAA, mostly -1's, 74/C
3B Kelly Johnson, 35, a few -1's (and he kicked my *** when we played Arizona...grrrr), 73/C
CP M. Delcarmen, 35, AAA, one +4, a lot of +2 and +3, 72/B

COL:
RP Brian Gordon, A, 38, -4 Velocity, -1's and -2's otherwise, 55/D
LF Josh Hamilton, 35, -4 in DISC, rest -1s and -2s, 85/B
1B Justin Morneau, 35, no change to contact/power vs LHP, -1's/-2's elsewhere, 74 C

LAD:
C John Buck, 36, -3's mostly, 50/D (yes, he's in the majors as a backup)
LF Carl Crawford, 35, mostly no change, +1 in both Power ratings, 82/B
C A.J. Ellis, 35, -7 DISC, -5 Vision, -2's/-3's otherwise, 74/C

SD:
CP J. Papelbon, 36, -3's except in /9 ratings, 76/A
RF Chris Denorfia, 36, AAA, -1's and -2's, 73/B
RP Dale Thayer, 36, AAA, a -4, a -5, mostly -3, 63/C

SF:
CF Angel Pagan, 35, -3 in VIS/DISC/STA/BRA, -1's most everywhere else, 78/B - currently on DL
RP Jean Machi, 35, AAA, -1's and -2's, 73/C
RP Joe Thatcher, 35, a few -2's, otherwise not much, 69/C (btw, lower OVR than Machi, but in the majors...OVR isn't the only consideration)

BAL:
1B Mike Jacobs, 36, AAA, mostly no change with a couple +1 and +2 and -1, 70/B

BOS:
C A.J. Pierzynski, 40, mostly no change, 53/B
C David Ross, 39, primarily -3's, 57/B
1B Victor Martinez, 38, mostly -3's, 66/B
1B Mike Napoli, 35, mostly -1's except -3 in VIS/DISC, 84/B
SP Jake Peavy, 35, -4/-5/-6s, 75/C
SP Jorge De La Rosa, 35, mostly -2's, 68/D

NYY:
1B Albert Pujols, 37, mostly -3's and -4's, 75/B
RF Nori Aoki, 35, mostly -1's and -2's, 80/B
LF Nate McLouth, 35, mostly -2's and -3's, a couple -4's, 68/B

TOR:
LF Jose Bautista, 36, mostly -3's, 79/B - still a power threat - 29 HR in August
CP Casey Janseen, 35, -4 K/9, -1's and -2's elsewhere with some no changes, 81/A

CHA:
C Chris Stewart, 35, not much of anything, 65/D

CLE:
RF Ryan Raburn, 35, -2 Vision, not much else, 68/C

DET:
2B Mike Fontenot, 36, AAA, -2's mostly, 54/D

KC:
SP James Shields, 35, few -3's, few -2's, 86/B
2B Omar Infante, 35, -4 CON vsL, mostly -1's and -2's elsewhere, 81/B

MIN:
RP Nyjer Morgan, 36, -1's and -2's, except no change in /9 ratings, 71/C
RP Jared Burton, 35, see Nyjer Morgan, 78/B

OAK:
LF Willis Chan, 38, mostly -3's, 66/B
CF Jason Bourgeois, 35, AAA, mostly -3's, 71/C

SEA:
CF Endy Chavez, 39, mostly -3's, 55/C
SP H. Iwakuma, 35, mostly -2's, 82/B, currently on DL

TEX:
SP Scott Baker, 35, mostly -2's, some no change in /9 ratings, 78/B

HOU:
SP Chris Young, 37, -1's, -2's, -3's, 72/B
LF Jonny Gomes, 36, mostly -2's, 60/C



Honestly, I don't see a lot wrong anywhere in that list. There's some variation (probably due to training/coaching) and no giant drops, despite being in August. Whether this convinces you or not...*shrug* but it's what's happening in my franchise.

[thescottyglasgow]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

Yes sorry i meant per year not month.

[NEOPARADIGM]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

Around 2005 or so I remember avidly complaining about the NCAA franchise that there was NO WAY Baylor or TCU would surpass Texas in football prowess (because this was happening consistently in Dynasty mode). Well oh my my, look what happened. Crazy. - A comparison can be drawn to this discussion, I think. It's just silly to think that you have any idea what certain players will look like in 4-7 years.

In any event, if you pick out some players at random, 34 is indeed the number where things can really tail off. Being a Tigers fan, Carlos Guillen and Magglio Ordonez both shoot to mind: Guillen was an all-star at 32 then never played more than 81 games until retirement at 35, and Maggs went from hitting .363 with 28 HR and 139 RBI as a 33-year-old, was modestly productive as a 34-year-old (.317, 21HR, 103 RBI) and then over his last three seasons (35, 36, 37) his highest HR total was 12 and his highest RBI total was 59.

Just a quick two cents. Cheers.

[HozAndMoose]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

Aramis Ramirez increased from 81 to 82 in my franchise at 37.

[GruffyMcGuiness]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

Like, someone was just whining about Trout losing OVR points when he simmed out into his age 30 season...

Yeah, the best baseball player on the planet shouldn't regress at age 30. If anything, he should be a 105 overall by then.

[KBLover]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

Yeah, the best baseball player on the planet shouldn't regress at age 30. If anything, he should be a 105 overall by then.

Anything can happen, including things that "shouldn't" happen. Baseball can be funny that way.

Players are not immune to declining simply because they are currently the best.

[Smooth Pancakes]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

I'm trying to figure out why it's such a big deal that someone like R.A. Dickey is losing OVR points after a season. The dude is bloody 40 years old. He isn't the same guy who won the 2012 Cy Young. And it's obvious in real life. Went from 20-6 that year to 14-13 the following two seasons and 2-6 this year. His ERA has shot up too. If he's not dropping 10-15 OVR in the game, then something is wrong in my eyes.

Colón is 42. His stats should be dropping too. He too has seen more losses and a higher ERA since his All-Star season in 2013. At that age, with a clear decrease in stats and skill in real life, he too should be dropping each year he remains in the game.

[CujoMatty]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

I'm trying to figure out why it's such a big deal that someone like R.A. Dickey is losing OVR points after a season. The dude is bloody 40 years old. He isn't the same guy who won the 2012 Cy Young. And it's obvious in real life. Went from 20-6 that year to 14-13 the following two seasons and 2-6 this year. His ERA has shot up too. If he's not dropping 10-15 OVR in the game, then something is wrong in my eyes.

Colón is 42. His stats should be dropping too. He too has seen more losses and a higher ERA since his All-Star season in 2013. At that age, with a clear decrease in stats and skill in real life, he too should be dropping each year he remains in the game.

He drops from an 84 to a 70 by the all star break. If he dropped it after the season most of us wouldn't care. I've now had 2 years(mlb 14 and mlb 15) where dickey is useless by the all star break. I respect everyone's opinion but that doesn't seem right to me.

For your second point about Dickey I would argue that his jump from the nl where every 9th batter is a gimme and also that the AL team he happened to go to is in the AL east where alot of pitchers struggle would be a bigger culprit than his age. I have no doubt his age is a factor but it's not the only one and honestly probably not even the major reason.

[MLB Bob]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

He drops from an 84 to a 70 by the all star break. If he dropped it after the season most of us wouldn't care. I've now had 2 years(mlb 14 and mlb 15) where dickey is useless by the all star break. I respect everyone's opinion but that doesn't seem right to me.

For your second point about Dickey I would argue that his jump from the nl where every 9th batter is a gimme and also that the AL team he happened to go to is in the AL east where alot of pitchers struggle would be a bigger culprit than his age. I have no doubt his age is a factor but it's not the only one and honestly probably not even the major reason.

When you say Dickey became useless you mean his stats in game were terrible? skyrocket ERA, no K's, walk everyone? Cause no one has stated that. What are his stats after the all star break compared to before?

[CujoMatty]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

When you say Dickey became useless you mean his stats in game were terrible? skyrocket ERA, no K's, walk everyone? Cause no one has stated that. What are his stats after the all star break compared to before?

I was 5-2 with a 2.39 Era when his ratings really started tanking. At the all star break he was 5-6 with a mid 4 Era. K's dropped a little but ive never really used dickey as a strike out pitcher. I pitch for contact more with him. I would definetly say that the hits went from routine grounders and easy flyballs to alot more hard hits to the gaps as well as way more hrs after his ratings dropped. The big problem with Dickey is because he isn't really a strike out pitcher in this game that it really turned into a huck and pray situation with him once his h/9 ratings dropped significantly. That's what I mean by useless. His other 2 pitches being a low 80s fastball and a below average change up are no good in any situation really. The cpu easily adapts and reacts to his other pitches and their speeds rendering them pointless quite frankly. Other than that Walks didn't change but that's a different matter. It's way too easy to control the knuckle ball in this game.

I tried putting him in the bullpen but he's really not a very good option. Im not real big on my relievers being pitch to contact type guys. I was going to bury him in the minors and forget about him and honestly not even so much because of his stats or ratings but because I personally just can't pitch with him anymore. He gets rocked and the huck and pray method isn't very fun. But what actually happened is I decided to start again with willards revision roster. I'm giving dickey another go but it's too early to tell. He's had 2 starts in my new franchise and he's won both giving up 3 runs combined.

[JayD]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

For a temporary fix you could always look what ratings drop in the manage roster section and then bump them back up to what they were before.

[kevin_bondra]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

I was 5-2 with a 2.39 Era when his ratings really started tanking. At the all star break he was 5-6 with a mid 4 Era. K's dropped a little but ive never really used dickey as a strike out pitcher. I pitch for contact more with him. I would definetly say that the hits went from routine grounders and easy flyballs to alot more hard hits to the gaps as well as way more hrs after his ratings dropped. The big problem with Dickey is because he isn't really a strike out pitcher in this game that it really turned into a huck and pray situation with him once his h/9 ratings dropped significantly. That's what I mean by useless. His other 2 pitches being a low 80s fastball and a below average change up are no good in any situation really. The cpu easily adapts and reacts to his other pitches and their speeds rendering them pointless quite frankly. Other than that Walks didn't change but that's a different matter. It's way too easy to control the knuckle ball in this game.

I tried putting him in the bullpen but he's really not a very good option. Im not real big on my relievers being pitch to contact type guys. I was going to bury him in the minors and forget about him and honestly not even so much because of his stats or ratings but because I personally just can't pitch with him anymore. He gets rocked and the huck and pray method isn't very fun. But what actually happened is I decided to start again with willards revision roster. I'm giving dickey another go but it's too early to tell. He's had 2 starts in my new franchise and he's won both giving up 3 runs combined.

Pretty sure this is EXACTLY what's happening in real life. Not sure how many Jays games you watch, but he is NOT the same pitcher anymore. If the Jays had someone else, RA would likely not be in the rotation anymore. Estrada is outpitching RA this year, so how is it so hard to believe this to happen in game?

[thescottyglasgow]

Re: From a 92 rating to 74 just because he's 34??

Pretty sure this is EXACTLY what's happening in real life. Not sure how many Jays games you watch, but he is NOT the same pitcher anymore. If the Jays had someone else, RA would likely not be in the rotation anymore. Estrada is outpitching RA this year, so how is it so hard to believe this to happen in game?

We are not talking about in real life though. In his franchise he was not pitching like that. Dickey in real life could go on a good 6-8 game run and get a ratings boost in this game, but that is not even a possibility in the franchise mode which I guess is more my point. I do not care about it being dickey or whoever, I just have a problem with it seeming to be set in stone what is going to happen and there is nothing the players performance or your training can do about it.