I really, really want to like this game.

[Padgoi]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

Are you experiencing this? In all the years I've played this game I've never squared up and not hit the ball hard.

I'm not at liberty to say. I don't check the batter analysis as much as I should after the game.

[cts50]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

I really cant do much more than simply disagree with anyone who says physics dont matter in this game.

Timing, location, PCI placement, batter who is hitting, all play a massive role on the type of batted ball you get.

I mean, do you guys really think Pure Analog and Zone hitting were put into the game just for looks?

Perhaps you guys play with Direction hitting where there is no PCI being controlled by the user because I cannot understand how someone can believe that hitting is just random sequencing.

[cts50]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

The batter or location of the pitch should not matter if the pitch is squared up. A squared up well timed hit should result in a line drive. The trajectory and distance traveled will change depending on location in the zone and the hitter, but a squared up is still a line drive. It is illogical that squaring up a pitch in the zone results in anything but a line drive. A fly ball would indicate the batter was under the pitch and did not square it up. A ground ball would indicate the batter hitter on top of the ball and did not square it up.

The batter and location should absolutely 100% matter. It impacts the swing plane, and the ability of the hitter to hit for power/contact (meaning that better hitters are going to see more hits squared up and hit hard).

Squared up down in the zone is likely to be a grounder. Squared up high in the zone should be a fly ball.

Timing also plays a huge role there as well.


"A ground ball would indicate the batter hitter on top of the ball and did not square it up"

Go outside, have someone throw you a bunch of low pitches around your knees and below. Try to square the pitch up...when you do, the ball will end up as a grounder (unless you have ridiculous line drive power to the extent that you can square up a pitch that is a foot and a half off the ground and line drive the ball into the OF on such a low plane). A low pitch is going to stay low unless you get under it. Therefore, a "squared up" low pitch will be a grounder.

After you finish that, have your friend throw you some high pitches, just below your chest. If you square those pitches up, you will probably hit lazy flyballs unless you have ridiculous power that allows you to keep a line-drive at the same plane all the way into the OF.

[jackbquick]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

I really cant do much more than simply disagree with anyone who says physics dont matter in this game.

Timing, location, PCI placement, batter who is hitting, all play a massive role on the type of batted ball you get.

I mean, do you guys really think Pure Analog and Zone hitting were put into the game just for looks?

Perhaps you guys play with Direction hitting where there is no PCI being controlled by the user because I cannot understand how someone can believe that hitting is just random sequencing.

I didn't say physics didn't matter. In fact I said more times than not the game reflects physics, but you will find many cases where it does not.

If, with good timing, you've never seen a perfectly centered ball popped up or line drive when the ball is below the PCI or the ground ball when the ball is above the PCI, then you are simply not paying close enough attention to the swing feedback. The centered PCI popup I estimate happens every 4 or 5 games. They other two are very common and I can't get through a single game without seeing one these scenarios. Usually see it a couple times a game. There is no way these are not happening to you if you are using zone. Again, I encourage to start checking the swing feedback after each and every swing you make contact. It is not pure physics.

[Jr.]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

So what is the cursor for in the game? Looks?

If I turn on the PCI indicator, what makes that different than cursor hitting?

If I remember right, the PCI is a visualization of the likelihood of "squaring up" the pitch. Center of the PCI is the greatest likelihood of "squaring up" the ball, but not 100%. The further you get away from the center, the likelihood goes down.

This is why you can still make contact with a pitch, despite not having the PCI in the location of the pitch.

[nomo17k]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

If I remember right, the PCI is a visualization of the likelihood of "squaring up" the pitch. Center of the PCI is the greatest likelihood of "squaring up" the ball, but not 100%. The further you get away from the center, the likelihood goes down.

This is why you can still make contact with a pitch, despite not having the PCI in the location of the pitch.

I think that is correct, and another factor that makes the interpretation of PCI not as straightforward as mapping directly to the "barrel of the bat" is that it's not just a likelihood of making quality "physical" contact, but it also factors in player's Power attribute, which mostly affects the swing speed (and hence the exit speed of batted ball in general).

I think it was last year (MLB 14) when this change was introduced, but now the PCI is larger for a power hitter even when his Contact (and/or Vision) is low... even though Power attribute for the most part has nothing to do with hitter's ability to make contact. I remember B. Ma explained the change was made to have the PCI represent more the likelihood of batted balls becoming a hit. Power hitters have intrinsic advantage in that even when they make relatively poor contact, their batted balls travel faster (and possibly further) which make them easier to find holes on the field.

So even when a ball appears within the boundary of PCI and closer to the center *by looks,* depending on the hitter's attributes it may or may not directly represent the likelihood of making quality contact itself.

This change may have made it harder to interpret what PCI really represents... but to think the PCI as some sort of solid object that hits the ball is not a correct way to visualize what it represents.

[jackbquick]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

The batter and location should absolutely 100% matter. It impacts the swing plane, and the ability of the hitter to hit for power/contact (meaning that better hitters are going to see more hits squared up and hit hard).

Squared up down in the zone is likely to be a grounder. Squared up high in the zone should be a fly ball.

Timing also plays a huge role there as well.


"A ground ball would indicate the batter hitter on top of the ball and did not square it up"

Go outside, have someone throw you a bunch of low pitches around your knees and below. Try to square the pitch up...when you do, the ball will end up as a grounder (unless you have ridiculous line drive power to the extent that you can square up a pitch that is a foot and a half off the ground and line drive the ball into the OF on such a low plane). A low pitch is going to stay low unless you get under it. Therefore, a "squared up" low pitch will be a grounder.

After you finish that, have your friend throw you some high pitches, just below your chest. If you square those pitches up, you will probably hit lazy flyballs unless you have ridiculous power that allows you to keep a line-drive at the same plane all the way into the OF.

Do you really believe that major league hitters can't and don't hit line drives on low and high pitches?

It doesn't take ridiculous power to line a knee high fast ball into the gap. Unless we are talking about six year olds, ground ball vs line drive has nothing to do with power. It is nothing more than putting the barrel on the center of the baseball with decent mechanics which every major league hitter has. This is where swing plane, which you mention above, comes into play. The swing plane is different depending on location. Any pitch in the strike zone can be barreled up to produce a line drive.

Being a video game either swing plane has to be assumed to always be correct or it is tied into PCI placement. Should it be tied into PCI placement, then it can't be a factor because I centered the PCI on ball.

[jackbquick]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

I think that is correct, and another factor that makes the interpretation of PCI not as straightforward as mapping directly to the "barrel of the bat" is that it's not just a likelihood of making quality "physical" contact, but it also factors in player's Power attribute, which mostly affects the swing speed (and hence the exit speed of batted ball in general).

I think it was last year (MLB 14) when this change was introduced, but now the PCI is larger for a power hitter even when his Contact (and/or Vision) is low... even though Power attribute for the most part has nothing to do with hitter's ability to make contact. I remember B. Ma explained the change was made to have the PCI represent more the likelihood of batted balls becoming a hit. Power hitters have intrinsic advantage in that even when they make relatively poor contact, their batted balls travel faster (and possibly further) which make them easier to find holes on the field.

So even when a ball appears within the boundary of PCI and closer to the center *by looks,* depending on the hitter's attributes it may or may not directly represent the likelihood of making quality contact itself.

This change may have made it harder to interpret what PCI really represents... but to think the PCI as some sort of solid object that hits the ball is not a correct way to visualize what it represents.

Excellent, now that we have confirmation that we do not have real physics can we discuss why we do not have real physics.

[Jr.]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

Excellent, now that we have confirmation that we do not have real physics can we discuss why we do not have real physics.

That's not necessarily true. I don't think it's possible to implement real physics that takes into account the visual of a ball striking a bat. What the game does it calculate the quality of contact (based on ratings of hitter and pitcher, and swing type (early, good, late)) and give the physics of the reaction based on that.. not based on anything visual (ball/bat contact).

[nomo17k]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

Excellent, now that we have confirmation that we do not have real physics can we discuss why we do not have real physics.

Why does what I wrote lead to the game lacking real physics?

Being a game and not an academic simulation of real world, any game would *model* certain types of physics by some sort of probabilistic models instead of carrying out full-blown physics models, and there really is nothing wrong with doing that...

If there is anything that we could fruitfully discuss, then it should be about whether the game is realistically modeling real-life baseball or not, and whether the underlying mechanism actually uses real physics or not isn't all that important.

At least for the part of game where physics can be really complicated (like hitter swinging a bat and the bat making contact with the pitch with various spin, etc.), I personally think it is only sufficient if things are simulated "realistically enough given limitations."

[Jr.]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

I will say, however, that the game struggles in regards to physics on ground balls down the line. I've seen numerous ground balls down the 3B line that actually move toward the LFer, rather than toward foul territory, after passing 3B.

I've also seen ground balls down the 3B line that start foul and come back fair. While this could happen, it shouldn't happen like it does in the game.

[Steven78]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

And those same balls down the line die way too soon instead of rolling to the wall like they should.

[cts50]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

Wow, lots of interesting stuff from nomo17k and Jr.

Thanks for the information.

[cts50]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

Do you really believe that major league hitters can't and don't hit line drives on low and high pitches?

It doesn't take ridiculous power to line a knee high fast ball into the gap. Unless we are talking about six year olds, ground ball vs line drive has nothing to do with power. It is nothing more than putting the barrel on the center of the baseball with decent mechanics which every major league hitter has. This is where swing plane, which you mention above, comes into play. The swing plane is different depending on location. Any pitch in the strike zone can be barreled up to produce a line drive.

Being a video game either swing plane has to be assumed to always be correct or it is tied into PCI placement. Should it be tied into PCI placement, then it can't be a factor because I centered the PCI on ball.

You did not respond to my post properly. You left out details and it does not appear that you read it thoroughly enough.

[jackbquick]

Re: I really, really want to like this game.

You did not respond to my post properly. You left out details and it does not appear that you read it thoroughly enough.

I'm not sure what you want me to respond to. I've read through your post. If you think I'm misunderstanding something or would like to specifically address something, please do point it out.

The issue I'm raising is that while the game responds as expected the majority of time, there is a percentage of the time it does not respond as expected.

I disagree with your thoughts regarding low and high pitches being squared up producing ground balls or fly balls and as there is plenty of evidence in major league baseball to contrary. My first hand experience is also contrary to your statements and I had very average power in college. But this could be a case that we are each trying to make two entirely different and unrelated points.