Re: Blatant AI Cheating

[redsox4evur]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

There is an adaptive AI built into the game, right?

If the AI keeps doing the same thing throughout the game, the user will pick up on it and try to adjust, right? The opposite then would be true with an adaptive AI - if the user keeps doing the same thing, the AI will adjust.

This could definitely be one of the things. Like pitching you start to throw the same pitch in the same situation every time the AI is going to catch on to it. Like if you throw a fastball all the time in a 2-0 count. The AI is going to recognize that and adapt it.

[hock0413]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

Maybe the machines are rising up! First they beat us in video game baseball then take over the world. I for one am not going to take it, time to go off the grid!

[bcruise]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

This thread totally validates the " If this happened..." Thread.

I should probably put this example in that thread, but it's still related to this topic regardless. So....

Anyone watch the MIA-MIL game last night? The one where Conley had a no-hitter and got pulled, but still a combined no-no into the 9th?

Here's what happened in that inning:

Braun - K. 1 out

Lucroy - Duck snort base hit to right to break up the no - no (hate using that term because it's a Hawk-ism)

Carter - ground out to 3rd, 2 out

Presley - base hit, Lucroy scores. 6-1

Flores - Double, Presley scores. 6-2

Walsh - base hit, Flores scores. 6-3

AJ Ramos comes in to pitch

Nieuwenhuis - Walks

Santana - Walks, bases loaded

Villar - K. Marlins win 6-3.

The game went from 6-0 to 6-3 on 2 outs with not just the tying run, but the WINNING run at the plate, and all it would have taken at that point is one hung breaking ball and we might have had either a tie game or a Brewers win.

That's baseball. It's not an excuse. That's just the way this game is. Earlier in the year there was a day when 8 teams had comeback wins.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/174381704/bryce-harper-nationals-among-8-comeback-wins

Obviously the OP's example is a bug, and it's unfortunate that it happened in Conquest mode where there's no way to rectify it. That's not what I'm talking about here.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

...As far as momentum goes. it's something I don't believe in. It's a cheap cliche announcers use. What is momentum exactly? And what value does it really have? I get sick of a football announcer tell me a team has momentum after an interception, only to have that team fumble on the next play. Tell me how did that "momentum" help?

Obviously Big Mo isn't 100%, & probably not even 75%, but to deny that momentum exists at all is nonsense. When teams do capitalize on momentum, I firmly believe the most influential factor at play that causes momentum is psychological. It helps to have talent to go along with the mental edge but if you have two evenly matched players & one is able to put aside a previous mistake from his mind, he will perform better than the one who is attempting to play the next play while still preoccupied mentally from his previous errors.

[KBLover]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

As far as momentum goes. it's something I don't believe in. It's a cheap cliche announcers use. What is momentum exactly? And what value does it really have? I get sick of a football announcer tell me a team has momentum after an interception, only to have that team fumble on the next play. Tell me how did that "momentum" help?

Momentum, imo, is a shorthand expression attempting to encompass a team's emotional state, change in game state, and potential change in outcome in a single word.

A lot like how in stock trading, you'll hear things like "the stock is digesting it's gains" or "the bulls are getting exhausted" - those are shorthand expressions for what's REALLY happening.

Momentum guarantees nothing. It doesn't dictate anything. It is a POTENTIAL shift in game outcome either occurring or having a good chance to take place.

To use your example of a team getting a pick, the defensive team "gained the momentum" or "is shifting the momentum" by creating an event that could reverse (or start to reverse) the game outcome. Now if they fumble it away (literally, in the case of your example), so it goes. The other team "took the momentum right back", i.e., they shifted the change in game outcomes, the likely emotional state of the crowd/other team, etc. back towards their advantage.

In computer games, it is entirely possible to program "momentum" in as an abstraction. The Show might have this as well, and sort of "organically" creates this with the confidence system, and gives you a way for your pitcher to "catch his breath" with a mound visit.

(Incidentally, I seem to remember one year I read here where one of the functions of the consistency slider was to govern how much confidence changed...with higher = smaller changes...not sure if that's still true)

This is different than the idea of a "forced" comeback (i.e. comeback code...I've seen it in Madden before...The Show has NOTHING like that, imo). In The Show, a crack in door has to appear first. You can slam it back shut, they can force it open a little more, etc. Sometimes, you have to make a quick move, pulling a reliever you just put in after he hangs two pitches and throws another to the backstop, things like that.

Other times you can induce that GIDP, analogous to your pick -> fumble back example. They load the bases on me due to an error, a steal, a walk, a hit, but I get a GIDP...game over. They "were shifting the momentum", but I made a big pitch and ended the game.

Anyway, that, imo, is what is meant by "momentum". A team "has the momentum" if the game outcome is in or trending in their favor. If you've ever seen a WPA chart of a game and see the line consistently (or sharply) moving in one way or another...that's "momentum". It doesn't CAUSE anything (which is how I think it gets misused), but it's a shorthand expression for what has been happening or a significant shift in win outcome of the game.

[jada855]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

I would like to believe the game is not cheating or constantly putting only my Player Lock or RTTS player in clutch situations so that I can win the ball game.

Bummed I can't play anymore because of this issue! I tried to deal with it but I think I finally broke down!

P.S I am not the Twins in this game!

[bcruise]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

I would like to believe the game is not cheating or constantly putting only my Player Lock or RTTS player in clutch situations so that I can win the ball game.

Bummed I can't play anymore because of this issue! I tried to deal with it but I think I finally broke down!

P.S I am not the Twins in this game!

I'm not sure what you're getting at here....the game doesn't show the fast forward screen anymore in RTTS unless you press the Play-by-Play button (triangle) after your appearance. And since you can't do that before your first appearance (and yes, that needs to be an option, along with Game Watch), it's just fast-forwarding to your first appearance.

It's not cheating you. It's no different than it would be if the fast-forward screen showed 5 runs crossing the plate in the inning as it did in 15 and before, it's just faster. What about all the times it's scoreless coming up to your first AB?

[Spokker]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

I can't tell what the pitching was like from the earlier rallies in the game, so I can't comment on those. But to me, that 9th inning looked like baseball. There's always going to be some loss of control over the game's outcome if you play with QC on, and if that's going to make you upset if/when it costs you games, you might want to consider playing without it.

Not upset at all. I have zero gripes. I was laughing in my post about it and said that hard losses are a fact of life in baseball.

Yeah, at the end I got a 3-0 count with the bases loaded. I would have rather lost on a walkoff home run than a walkoff walk.

[jada855]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

I'm not sure what you're getting at here....the game doesn't show the fast forward screen anymore in RTTS unless you press the Play-by-Play button (triangle) after your appearance. And since you can't do that before your first appearance (and yes, that needs to be an option, along with Game Watch), it's just fast-forwarding to your first appearance.

It's not cheating you. It's no different than it would be if the fast-forward screen showed 5 runs crossing the plate in the inning as it did in 15 and before, it's just faster. What about all the times it's scoreless coming up to your first AB?

bcruise,

Thanks but I use Player Lock in Franchise mode so it skips to either my first at bat or first defensive play until I have the chance to select the game watch option. This happens at both home and away games for me.

The issue is more of coming up to the plate for my first appearance in the game and been down by 3-5 runs each time. The only way to see what happened is to pause the game and look at the game log option. Its not the most efficient way especially when I am trying to win games in Franchise mode runs are hard to come by.

My team is never ahead in the score when this happens.I have even tried stacking the roster e.g putting Bryce Harper and Miguel Cabrera on the Brewers and also stacking the Pitching Rotation with top names. The only time I've seen a 0-0 is when I played the game on the Beginner difficulty setting.

I do agree with you and that the game watch option needs to happen before the game starts. I felt this worked fine in 15 and at least made the game feel more organic as to what was going to happen on the field.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

I can't speak for anyone else but the way I look at it is this. The computer has an advantage over me and there is really nothing a developer can do about it. Let me explain.

I use zone analog to hit. Basically I'm looking for a pitch and location. If something comes I'm looking for I let er rip. So I actually hit better when the computer hits it's spots or throws logically. I don't know how many times the CPU hangs a curveball that I should yard but I don't because I'm not expecting it. The CPU doesn't have this disadvantage because it's a computer lol. i doesnt have to react to where the pitch is or time it right. It sees a meat pitch and hits it and probably hard. The computer is always going to have an advantage on capitalizing on mistakes. It has to.

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

... Basically I'm looking for a pitch and location. If something comes I'm looking for I let er rip. So I actually hit better when the computer hits it's spots or throws logically. I don't know how many times the CPU hangs a curveball that I should yard but I don't because I'm not expecting it.

If a player told a his hitting coach or manager this, IRL, i wonder how they would react.
If the CPU hangs a curve, you can't be so locked in that you don't take advantage of mistakes. You can't afford to. Same as IRL

[CujoMatty]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

If a player told a his hitting coach or manager this, IRL, i wonder how they would react.
If the CPU hangs a curve, you can't be so locked in that you don't take advantage of mistakes. You can't afford to. Same as IRL

Of course I try and take advantage of it but what I'm saying is with zone hitting it's easy to miss. guys miss meat pitches lots in real life too. The CPU isn't going to though. Honestly in key situations the CPU is going to hurt you 90 percent of the time if you miss your spots. where as i might have success 30 to 40 percent of ty he time. If you play zone hitting there's no way your going to have a 90 percent success rate. If your telling me that you play zone and strictly hit by following where the pitch goes intead of looking to pitches or spots and have a great deal of success than you have some seriously fantastic reflexes.

[countryboy]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

I've been playing since the show began..There has always been something fishy and I am convinced that there is..I have played too many games to know when I am being cheated

Despite what any developer says..They want to sell the game..Saying that there is a "comeback" code would completely trash sales..

So you believe that the devs are lying when they say there is no comeback code?


But the bigger question that I have is that if you feel the game is cheating you, why do you continue to buy it every year, especially if you believe that you're going to be cheated when playing? Why would you "waste" your money for what has got to be a frustrating experience?

[Jolly Roger]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

One time I was playing against the Cubs, up by 2 runs and pitching in the bottom of the 9th with two outs. I put a pitch down low out of the zone against Kyle Schwarber and he laid down a perfect drag bunt base hit down the third base line! I was like, "...the f...."

Then, Dexter Fowler hit a deep fly ball to center. My center fielder is positioned perfectly to make the catch but then, all of the sudden, a fan jumps out of the stands and tackles my center fielder! Like, dude! And it wasn't even just any fan, it was one with Ramone's face! And the umpiring crew didn't even call fan interference!

So now Schwarber and Fowler are on base. I only need one more out and Addison Russell is coming to the plate, so I've got to have this game in the bag. But then, I sh*t you not, Matt Vaskersian says "folks, in all my years of broadcasting I've never seen anything like this, but I'm getting information that during the 3rd inning, the Cubs traded for Mike Trout, who was then flown by private jet to Chicago and will now come into the game as a pinch hitter." C'MON MAN! C'MON! THIS IS CRAP!

I was NOT about to let this a**-hattery ruin my game, so I decided to just intentionally walk him. Too bad for me, because Trout scooted over in front of my catcher and jacked it over the fence! Walk off



Now I'm not sayin' that's comeback code, but....

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: Blatant AI Cheating

One time I was playing against the Cubs, up by 2 runs and pitching in the bottom of the 9th with two outs. I put a pitch down low out of the zone against Kyle Schwarber and he laid down a perfect drag bunt base hit down the third base line! I was like, "...the f...."

Then, Dexter Fowler hit a deep fly ball to center. My center fielder is positioned perfectly to make the catch but then, all of the sudden, a fan jumps out of the stands and tackles my center fielder! Like, dude! And it wasn't even just any fan, it was one with Ramone's face! And the umpiring crew didn't even call fan interference!

So now Schwarber and Fowler are on base. I only need one more out and Addison Russell is coming to the plate, so I've got to have this game in the bag. But then, I sh*t you not, Matt Vaskersian says "folks, in all my years of broadcasting I've never seen anything like this, but I'm getting information that during the 3rd inning, the Cubs traded for Mike Trout, who was then flown by private jet to Chicago and will now come into the game as a pinch hitter." C'MON MAN! C'MON! THIS IS CRAP!

I was NOT about to let this a**-hattery ruin my game, so I decided to just intentionally walk him. Too bad for me, because Trout scooted over in front of my catcher and jacked it over the fence! Walk off



Now I'm not sayin' that's comeback code, but....

The exact same thing happened to me, but I thought it was just a glitch/bug.