Directional Hitting Guide

[KBLover]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

Most MLB hitters hit the ball where it’s pitched. Sure they sit on pitches sometimes, but they also recognize and go with pitches as well.

Fangraphs shows most balls going up the middle or pull side. If it's true hitters go with the pitch then there must be a lot of inside pitching.

Looking at the 2017 heat map for pitches to RHB, it trends down and away...and most balls are pulled or up the middle, not oppo (40% Pull, 35% Mid, 25% Oppo).

Flipping the view to as L (meaning as a LHB), the same trend holds - mid to away.

The K/whiff rates now also makes me wonder how much recognizing and adjusting is going on.

For example: if I’m pressing in on the analog stick (trying to pull the ball) with a power guy, but when the pitch is released I see it’s going to be low and away but I don’t change my direction, will that not result in weak contact? It’s very difficult, as I’m sure most of us are aware, to pull the ball well on a pitch low and away. Does it happen, sometimes? Yeah, I’m sure. But not with regularity.

Not necessarily. Yes, it's difficult (hence why that's the counter play to a pull hitter), but not impossible.

In The Show, this is especially true if you have good timing. You're still on the ball, the pull influence will "pull" the direction towards the hitter's pull side. Also, if the ratings are strong enough, the hitter can get solid contact. Again, less likely, even in The Show, but not out of the question though your timing probably shouldn't be any earlier than Just Early.

But, of course, that's why working away and down is the counter play to a pull hitter and I don't think they "adjust their influence" IRL...given the K rates and the hit direction rates. After all, if a hitter's muscle memory is to just open up on a ball...best he can do is keep his hands back, which would be the equal to you aiming for Just Late timing with pull influence...which can be effective in The Show.

If I don't have two strikes, I'd just take the pitch. If I have two strikes, I'd likely try to fight it off unless I can recognize it's a ball. Heck, with two strikes and it's a DP situation, I might take it and hope I get the call unless it's a very obvious strike (1st and 2nd, especially...1st and 3rd, I'd probably try to hit a chopper or some slow roller that might not be two and get the man in from 3rd...in which case the pitcher might have just done me a favor).

JMO.

[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

So kB what directions do u usually hold when u aim

Fangraphs shows most balls going up the middle or pull side. If it's true hitters go with the pitch then there must be a lot of inside pitching.

Looking at the 2017 heat map for pitches to RHB, it trends down and away...and most balls are pulled or up the middle, not oppo (40% Pull, 35% Mid, 25% Oppo).

Flipping the view to as L (meaning as a LHB), the same trend holds - mid to away.

The K/whiff rates now also makes me wonder how much recognizing and adjusting is going on.





Not necessarily. Yes, it's difficult (hence why that's the counter play to a pull hitter), but not impossible.

In The Show, this is especially true if you have good timing. You're still on the ball, the pull influence will "pull" the direction towards the hitter's pull side. Also, if the ratings are strong enough, the hitter can get solid contact. Again, less likely, even in The Show, but not out of the question though your timing probably shouldn't be any earlier than Just Early.

But, of course, that's why working away and down is the counter play to a pull hitter and I don't think they "adjust their influence" IRL...given the K rates and the hit direction rates. After all, if a hitter's muscle memory is to just open up on a ball...best he can do is keep his hands back, which would be the equal to you aiming for Just Late timing with pull influence...which can be effective in The Show.

If I don't have two strikes, I'd just take the pitch. If I have two strikes, I'd likely try to fight it off unless I can recognize it's a ball. Heck, with two strikes and it's a DP situation, I might take it and hope I get the call unless it's a very obvious strike (1st and 2nd, especially...1st and 3rd, I'd probably try to hit a chopper or some slow roller that might not be two and get the man in from 3rd...in which case the pitcher might have just done me a favor).

JMO.

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

I posted this question on a different thread but I’ll ask it here as well because I’m curious.

If you always use direction and hold it prior to the pitch and throughout, doesn’t that lend itself to really bad contact and kind of make hitting unrealistic in regards to sitting on pitches. Most MLB hitters hit the ball where it’s pitched. Sure they sit on pitches sometimes, but they also recognize and go with pitches as well.

For example: if I’m pressing in on the analog stick (trying to pull the ball) with a power guy, but when the pitch is released I see it’s going to be low and away but I don’t change my direction, will that not result in weak contact? It’s very difficult, as I’m sure most of us are aware, to pull the ball well on a pitch low and away. Does it happen, sometimes? Yeah, I’m sure. But not with regularity.


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It's hard to take a generic example like that and give an accurate answer because that can change based on the batter and the exact location of the pitch.

If the pitch is well in the zone still and the batter is a strong pull hitter, not at all. In fact the batter has more leeway to get a good hit since they can be early without pulling the ball foul, and pulling increases the odds of good contact on early swings (I touch on this in the errors and omissions section).

If the pitch is right on the corner, then adjusting mid pitch MAY help a slight bit, but the most important factor is still going to be timing regardless, and you as a player are far better off focusing on timing then adjusting to the pitch. Using timing to adjust will yield far better dividends. Your player will adjust if your timing is good enough (most of the time, sometimes perfect inputs will still result in swing and misses).

You shouldn't get hung up on the actual direction you want the ball to go. Timing is by far the major factor in determining the direction the ball goes, influence is so minor it's to the point where it should be ignored in most situations (especially for AL players). Instead think of the influences as minor adjustments between the major power, normal, and contact swings.

My play testing also showed significantly worse results whenever I tried to adjust mid pitch. Maybe my results were skewed by bad luck, and I did do it a long time ago (well before the guide was ever posted) so it's possible I'm wrong about it, but I assure you my testing was extensive.

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[KBLover]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

So kB what directions do u usually hold when u aim

Depends on the situation, the hitter, the ratings involved, etc.

Give me a more complete scenario and I can give more specific answer.

Timing is by far the major factor in determining the direction the ball goes, influence is so minor it's to the point where it should be ignored in most situations (especially for AL players).

I don't go this far. I don't think influence's impact on direction and trajectory should be ignored.

Many times I "steer" a ball down the middle with good timing and influence where I would need to risk late timing with no influence. Likewise with pulling. Especially with low contact/vision (like Gallo) + higher K/9 pitcher where anything other than Good can risk a whiff.

[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

see this is the problem with me im not the best in hitting in mlb games never was. I was always better at pitching. so I use guess location and guess pitch so if I guess up and I guess right do I aim up I need something simple and they the computer do the rest that why I thought about zone hitting because u just have to pick a spot and just swing that it.

Depends on the situation, the hitter, the ratings involved, etc.

Give me a more complete scenario and I can give more specific answer.





I don't go this far. I don't think influence's impact on direction and trajectory should be ignored.

Many times I "steer" a ball down the middle with good timing and influence where I would need to risk late timing with no influence. Likewise with pulling. Especially with low contact/vision (like Gallo) + higher K/9 pitcher where anything other than Good can risk a whiff.

[KBLover]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

see this is the problem with me im not the best in hitting in mlb games never was. I was always better at pitching. so I use guess location and guess pitch so if I guess up and I guess right do I aim up I need something simple and they the computer do the rest that why I thought about zone hitting because u just have to pick a spot and just swing that it.

A straight simple rule?

Hmm...I'd pretty much condense it to this:

Over 85 power - up influence

Otherwise - down influence

Reasoning: Where I differ from TWW's thoughts is that down influence's ability to lower the launch angle on flyballs is significant, especially on pitches high in the zone. It keeps the hitter "swinging down" on the ball (they don't really swing down but that's the jargon), and in the zone can help "create" line drives or "low fly balls" that carry.

It can really help fly ball BABIP and since fly ball hits are often damaging, it can help an offense. I think it can protect mid and low power guys, letting them hit sinking liners that drop instead of cans of corn or loop liners than hang up enough to get caught. It can be the difference between a routine fly to left center by Bogaerts or a double/triple off the Monster.

For the elite top-shelf power guys, I could see selling out for fly balls and they have the strength and exit velocity to drive it even with a bit less-than-optimal launch angle. So, for them, going all out fly ball I can see making some sense, especially for the sake of simplicity.

[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

Bro thank you for this going to try it right now.

A straight simple rule?

Hmm...I'd pretty much condense it to this:

Over 85 power - up influence

Otherwise - down influence

Reasoning: Where I differ from TWW's thoughts is that down influence's ability to lower the launch angle on flyballs is significant, especially on pitches high in the zone. It keeps the hitter "swinging down" on the ball (they don't really swing down but that's the jargon), and in the zone can help "create" line drives or "low fly balls" that carry.

It can really help fly ball BABIP and since fly ball hits are often damaging, it can help an offense. I think it can protect mid and low power guys, letting them hit sinking liners that drop instead of cans of corn or loop liners than hang up enough to get caught. It can be the difference between a routine fly to left center by Bogaerts or a double/triple off the Monster.

For the elite top-shelf power guys, I could see selling out for fly balls and they have the strength and exit velocity to drive it even with a bit less-than-optimal launch angle. So, for them, going all out fly ball I can see making some sense, especially for the sake of simplicity.

[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

Another thing when do you swing for power and why am I hitting a lot of grounders is my timing off?

A straight simple rule?

Hmm...I'd pretty much condense it to this:

Over 85 power - up influence

Otherwise - down influence

Reasoning: Where I differ from TWW's thoughts is that down influence's ability to lower the launch angle on flyballs is significant, especially on pitches high in the zone. It keeps the hitter "swinging down" on the ball (they don't really swing down but that's the jargon), and in the zone can help "create" line drives or "low fly balls" that carry.

It can really help fly ball BABIP and since fly ball hits are often damaging, it can help an offense. I think it can protect mid and low power guys, letting them hit sinking liners that drop instead of cans of corn or loop liners than hang up enough to get caught. It can be the difference between a routine fly to left center by Bogaerts or a double/triple off the Monster.

For the elite top-shelf power guys, I could see selling out for fly balls and they have the strength and exit velocity to drive it even with a bit less-than-optimal launch angle. So, for them, going all out fly ball I can see making some sense, especially for the sake of simplicity.

[KBLover]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

Another thing when do you swing for power and why am I hitting a lot of grounders is my timing off?

Power swing, usually for player with high contact and good power. I don't use influence a lot of times when I do power swings, just aim for solid timing. If I do, it's usually down influence - try for hard liners and if he gets it on the barrel, it can still go out anyway.

Also, with power swing, I only do it when I have the advantage in the count. This is because I want a pitch middlish and slightly down (like coming across just above the line where center-center square and center-low square). High pitches, you can pop up a bit easy on power swing and low you might rip a hard grounder, which can be fine unless DP situation where it's risky.

With count advantage, you can just spit on it and it's 2-1, 3-1 and you're still fine.

The only exception with the pitcher. I always power swing with him if I'm not bunting. I call it the Bartolo Colon approach.

[VTWiseGuy]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

Hey............

[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

Thank you so much I got 11 hits because of you.

Power swing, usually for player with high contact and good power. I don't use influence a lot of times when I do power swings, just aim for solid timing. If I do, it's usually down influence - try for hard liners and if he gets it on the barrel, it can still go out anyway.

Also, with power swing, I only do it when I have the advantage in the count. This is because I want a pitch middlish and slightly down (like coming across just above the line where center-center square and center-low square). High pitches, you can pop up a bit easy on power swing and low you might rip a hard grounder, which can be fine unless DP situation where it's risky.

With count advantage, you can just spit on it and it's 2-1, 3-1 and you're still fine.

The only exception with the pitcher. I always power swing with him if I'm not bunting. I call it the Bartolo Colon approach.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

My play testing also showed significantly worse results whenever I tried to adjust mid pitch. Maybe my results were skewed by bad luck, and I did do it a long time ago (well before the guide was ever posted) so it's possible I'm wrong about it, but I assure you my testing was extensive.

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I’ve spent countless hours with this game over many years, using both zone and directional hitting. And I have to say that there should be no difference whatsoever between holding a direction throughout a pitch (before its released until contact) as opposed to sitting centered and moving the stick when the pitch is in the air (adjusting while the ball is traveling). Especially if you’re saying that direction only has a minor influence. If timing is the key (which I agree it is) then we should be able to just adjust to the pitch.



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[Gagnon39]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

It could very well be coincidence, or could very well not be, but this last game I played was the best I’ve ever hit. I concentrated on just pull and push swings (pressing only right or left) and not at all up or down. I crushed the ball. I had 12 total hits, including 4 doubles and a home run. It was like a different game. Hopefully it wasn’t just a one-time fluke.


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[COMMISSIONERHBK9]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

I’m going to try this no power just regular right

It could very well be coincidence, or could very well not be, but this last game I played was the best I’ve ever hit. I concentrated on just pull and push swings (pressing only right or left) and not at all up or down. I crushed the ball. I had 12 total hits, including 4 doubles and a home run. It was like a different game. Hopefully it wasn’t just a one-time fluke.


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[Gagnon39]

Re: Directional Hitting Guide

I’m curious what situations generally create the best situations for you guys to hit balls past the outfielders in the gaps for doubles. I’ve been sticking with directional hitting this year, as opposed to my normal flip-flopping between zone and directional. However, I’m almost at the All-Star break and while my big bats like Bryant, Rizzo and Schwarber are doing okay, my other hitters have abysmal batting averages. I think Baez is now hitting below .220, Zobrist is .230 at best, Heyward in the .230’s, etc.

I just can’t hit with these guys and it becomes increasingly frustrating. I notice that I really have trouble driving the ball into the gaps.

I’m curious for those getting good results in this area, what are you doing? Are you pushing up and to the right/left? As in the 1 o’clock and 11 o’clock positions? Or just pushing left or right? I’ve had a few games here and there where I’ve had great results, but in general they are few and far between. I took timing up one notch for a few games and absolutely destroyed the ball to the point where I felt like I was cheating. Especially in my 14-0 drubbing over the Cardinals.


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