Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

[pittguy2]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

That thread was talking about help with lack of strikeouts which I replied that a discussion in regards to lack of strikeouts was taking place here. I referred him here because we were discussing the excessive contact therefore leading to less strikeouts, which his issue would've been in line with.

Not once did I claim that help wasn't the point. In fact I even said that if we could find the culprit then we could possibly determine a fix via the user to combat it.

What I did say was you talking about needing to adjust sliders to get realistic stats over 162 games or how if SDS fixed this issue that another issue would come about, or when rebel was talking about other issues with hitting and the direction of the game, had nothing to do with the topic at hand and were better served elsewhere.

So you can accuse me of **** all you want, but the bottom line is that this thread was being taken off topic and turning into a discussion that had no business being in this thread.

I’m confused why you are so fired up countryboy.

I think we’re all seeing the issue you described, where it’s just too hard to strike the CPU out as they foul oft pitches they have no business fouling off and pretty much never swing and miss at pitches in the zone.

BUT, like you mentioned, the game is playing pretty well besides that.

With that in mind, it seems like discussion is naturally going to flow to either slider fixes or game balance.

Because if you want the strikeouts to increase, something else is going to change whether that’s sliders or by SDS, and who knows how that will impact the rest of the game.

I’m pretty frustrated right now because I want to pitch on Legend and enjoy the challenge but it’s just not realistic to strikeout like 2 guys a start, especially in today’s MLB. It’s almost to the point that I don’t even want to keep playing my franchise...

So why is that so off-topic? It just seems like a natural progression from the OP, as we all confirmed we were seeing similar things and naturally that’s going to lead to how it can be fixed.

I really don’t want to mess with sliders, I HATE messing with sliders. But I’m afraid that might be the only option.

[countryboy]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

I'm not going to continue to explain myself.

This is the current game that I'm playing. Thru 9 innings (we are going extras) out of 116 pitches, only 4 were missed, which is 3.4% of pitches. Just from this one game (where I've been paying more attention) it seems that the AI is making too much contact on both very early and very late timing.

I believe this contact is the reason for, well lack of swings & misses/strikeouts, but also why the hit totals stay in check because these swings that are put into play are weak thus leading to outs.

I guess the obvious move now would be to lower the timing slider and see if that makes a difference. I think for now, I'm going to continue to play out a few games where I'm paying closer attention to these swing types and see what the results are. If this feels a few games from now as it does now that its the culprit, then I may try adjusting the timing slider to see what that does for the issue and overall gameplay.

[Roscosuper]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

No because this isn't about not understanding the meter. This is about both the user and AI being able to make contact on pitches where the PCI is located significantly away from the location of the pitch.

OK, so when you're batting on Legend difficulty are you not striking out?

And how do you know where the CPU PCI is? Unless you mean the feedback which is not the exact location of the PCI but a calculation that includes swing timing and God knows what else.

[countryboy]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

OK, so when you're batting on Legend difficulty are you not striking out?

And how do you know where the CPU PCI is? Unless you mean the feedback which is not the exact location of the PCI but a calculation that includes swing timing and God knows what else.

Yes I'm striking out, but that doesn't mean that there aren't times where I'm making contact on pitches where my PCI placement is in a significantly different location than the pitch location.

The swing feedback. That is the only representation of where the PCI location was that I'm aware of. And unless something is different between the feedback between myself and the CPU, I think its a fair representation because it displays my swing feedback where I moved the PCI.

[bcruise]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Yes I'm striking out, but that doesn't mean that there aren't times where I'm making contact on pitches where my PCI placement is in a significantly different location than the pitch location.

The swing feedback. That is the only representation of where the PCI location was that I'm aware of. And unless something is different between the feedback between myself and the CPU, I think its a fair representation because it displays my swing feedback where I moved the PCI.

It's not the only representation - the PCI contact filter in batter/pitcher analysis shows it too. And usually they match up - for example if you see a ball that was centered on the PCI graphic, it's often going to be a 15 (max) on the PCI contact analysis. Or at least a number close to it. Timing has no bearing on that, so it can be a 15 even if it's a super early or late swing with no contact - as long it was squared up.

In fact, the PCI contact filter is the only way to check the quality of contact on Directional hitting (other than the eyeball test and the broad description that the swing analysis window gives). It shows that there's still a "PCI" system working under the hood.

[Drty_Windshield]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Just for clarification...what is the issue exactly?


contact: human too much / too little , cpu too much / too little ?
swings and misses: same as above ?
strikeouts: same as above ?


striking out the cpu: how ? looking, chasing or swing and miss ?


I'm still fine tuning my legend slider set but so far contact is on par for both human and cpu, swings and misses is on par for human but on the low end for the cpu, and strikeouts are on par for human and on par for cpu except that most of the cpu strikeouts, if not all of them, are from looking and chasing. Basically, the only glaring issue I'm seeing on my end is that the cpu rarely swings and misses in the zone and I haven't found a way to combat that without throwing everything else out of wack.

[bcruise]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Just for clarification...what is the issue exactly?


contact: human too much / too little , cpu too much / too little ?
swings and misses: same as above ?
strikeouts: same as above ?


striking out the cpu: how ? looking, chasing or swing and miss ?


I'm still fine tuning my legend slider set but so far contact is on par for both human and cpu, swings and misses is on par for human but on the low end for the cpu, and strikeouts are on par for human and on par for cpu except that most of the cpu strikeouts, if not all of them, are from looking and chasing. Basically, the only glaring issue I'm seeing on my end is that the cpu rarely swings and misses in the zone and I haven't found a way to combat that without throwing everything else out of wack.

I think there are two issues people are having, and they're both linked - Not getting the CPU to strike out enough, and the CPU making contact on (and usually fouling off) pitches that are well off of their PCI. The latter makes strikeouts harder to get.

People are seeing it to various degrees, which leads me to believe user skill, strategy and choice of difficulty all need to be factored in here. Personally I can get the CPU to chase and miss on Legend (varies WIDELY by pitcher), so while I do see the problem for myself, I'm not sure I want changes just yet.

[bcruise]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Man....we talk in here about being frustrated with swings we think should be weak/no contact, yet I just saw Jason Heyward hit a fastball up and clearly outside of the strike zone oppo into the Wrigley basket IRL. Pitches that used to be good (or at least not easily punishable) are mistakes in today's game.

Sometimes I wonder if we just analyze this stuff too much. Sorry, I know it's a little OT, just musing.

[Gagnon39]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Could not agree more. Every time I bring this up people just want to suggest how to pitch. I’ve played this game religiously since 2008 and every other baseball video game before that basically. Every year, without fail, I’m top ten in the league in strikeouts (for my own pitchers). I’m always the Cubs. This year is a different story, there’s no doubt about it. Currently I sit dead last in the NL. And I’m 29th in Majors. I currently have 158 team strikeouts in 22 games. The only team worse than me is the Detroit Tigers, not far behind with 149.

The most telling stat is the K/9 stat for pitchers. Yu Darvish, for example has a career K/9 near 11. In my game he currently has a K/9 around 7. It’s an issue.

The other issue I’m currently battling is that of hitting home runs. This is another stat that I’m almost always top ten in. This year, however, like my pitching... last in the NL, 29th in the Majors.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[MLPtxrangers77]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Could not agree more. Every time I bring this up people just want to suggest how to pitch. I’ve played this game religiously since 2008 and every other baseball video game before that basically. Every year, without fail, I’m top ten in the league in strikeouts (for my own pitchers). I’m always the Cubs. This year is a different story, there’s no doubt about it. Currently I sit dead last in the NL. And I’m 29th in Majors. I currently have 158 team strikeouts in 22 games. The only team worse than me is the Detroit Tigers, not far behind with 149.

The most telling stat is the K/9 stat for pitchers. Yu Darvish, for example has a career K/9 near 11. In my game he currently has a K/9 around 7. It’s an issue.

The other issue I’m currently battling is that of hitting home runs. This is another stat that I’m almost always top ten in. This year, however, like my pitching... last in the NL, 29th in the Majors.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I use the power swing button using zone hall of fame & it helped me quite a bit on hitting the long ball. As far as the topic I’m having hell getting the AI to strike out. But I’m having a blast with this game otherwise. Can’t wait to see what the show becomes oh PlayStation 5 in the future.

[Rmiok222]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Could not agree more. Every time I bring this up people just want to suggest how to pitch. I’ve played this game religiously since 2008 and every other baseball video game before that basically. Every year, without fail, I’m top ten in the league in strikeouts (for my own pitchers). I’m always the Cubs. This year is a different story, there’s no doubt about it. Currently I sit dead last in the NL. And I’m 29th in Majors. I currently have 158 team strikeouts in 22 games. The only team worse than me is the Detroit Tigers, not far behind with 149.

The most telling stat is the K/9 stat for pitchers. Yu Darvish, for example has a career K/9 near 11. In my game he currently has a K/9 around 7. It’s an issue.

The other issue I’m currently battling is that of hitting home runs. This is another stat that I’m almost always top ten in. This year, however, like my pitching... last in the NL, 29th in the Majors.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I’m going to message you Gagnon


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[countryboy]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Well after my last post showing the swings and misses and only recording 2 strikeouts, I went to the team rankings page to see team stats. We have 209 strikeouts thru 31 games. That's an avg of 6.7 per game. I looked at the majors this year and the Rangers are in last in total strikeouts avg 7 per game. The Rays are at the top and they are averaging a little of 9 per game IRL. The Blue Jays are at the top of my franchise averaging about 9.5 per game.

After looking at that I realized that my stats aren't really that far off. I thought about the game I played and Wacha went down in the 2nd inning due to an injury so Tyler Lyons came in and threw until the 6th. He recorded one strikeout. Cimber had 0, Osuna had 1 and Rosenthal had 0.

But as I thought more, I thought about how I was so caught up in trying to determine this issue, that I was pitching differently, because I was trying to "gather data" instead of playing the game and utilizing the batter/pitcher analysis like I normally do. This is why I personally don't like adjusting sliders. I end up trying to gather data and "resolve the issue" instead of playing and enjoying.

So I decided to play the next game and forget about the "issue" and get back to playing.

I played the next game against the Pirates with Carlos Martinez on the mound and as a team we recorded 13 strikeouts. Martinez had 7, Hicks 3, Kiekhefer 1 and Rosenthal 2.

So I say that to say this. While I still think there is an issue with excessive contact being made on very early/very late swings and when the PCI is no where near the pitch location, thus leading to fewer swings and misses, thus potentially leading to fewer strikeouts, I think I'm just going to leave everything as is and just play.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

To answer the OPs question, yes. I posted about this a bunch of times and mentioned it in different threads (some sliders, some general gameplay).

I even opened a bug ticket on this. There is too much contact on Very Late and Very Early swings, even outside of the zone. As you mentioned, by contact I do not mean in play just some sort of contact.

As a result you live to see another pitch and eventually put the ball in play.
There needs to be more swings and misses, period.

Here is my original post from opening week: https://forums.operationsports.com/f...foul-tips.html

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

I'm not going to continue to explain myself.

This is the current game that I'm playing. Thru 9 innings (we are going extras) out of 116 pitches, only 4 were missed, which is 3.4% of pitches. Just from this one game (where I've been paying more attention) it seems that the AI is making too much contact on both very early and very late timing.

I believe this contact is the reason for, well lack of swings & misses/strikeouts, but also why the hit totals stay in check because these swings that are put into play are weak thus leading to outs.

I guess the obvious move now would be to lower the timing slider and see if that makes a difference. I think for now, I'm going to continue to play out a few games where I'm paying closer attention to these swing types and see what the results are. If this feels a few games from now as it does now that its the culprit, then I may try adjusting the timing slider to see what that does for the issue and overall gameplay.

Timing slider actually makes the issue worse! You will be Very Late and Very Early more often but STILL make contact. Behind the scenes, it seems like the plate vision is too big for all hitters.

As a result they are able to touch pitches that are either in front or behind the plate.

[Caulfield]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

had an epiphany, a moment of clarity lol
dont try to strike everybody out, strikeouts are boring. besides that, they're fascist. throw some groundballs, they're more democratic