AI Bullpen Logic

[djflock]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Didn’t say it was an excuse, but just saying I know it’s more difficult than one would lead to believe. But I’m hoping they can update it so it matches more in line with current bullpen/lineup logic than what it was 15 years ago, which is what the game simulates.

lol I didn't mean to come off with any animosity towards to you. Just frustrated with having to manage every teams lineup if I dont want to play against every team constructing their lineup like the Big Red Machine.

[Cycloniac]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

lol I didn't mean to come off with any animosity towards to you. Just frustrated with having to manage every teams lineup if I dont want to play against every team constructing their lineup like the Big Red Machine.

Unfortunately, I think setting all lineups is just the way. But crossing my fingers it finally gets fixed for 25.

[kbusch22]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

It's beyond ridiculous that bullpen logic gets ignored year after year after year when we know SDS read these boards.

Kudos to people who found workarounds etc but I cannot normalize having to do all of this just to get the bullpen to function correctly. They can't be bailed out or have it be excused away when it's been nearly a decade of this.

[LegendKillerOne]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

It's beyond ridiculous that bullpen logic gets ignored year after year after year when we know SDS read these boards.

Kudos to people who found workarounds etc but I cannot normalize having to do all of this just to get the bullpen to function correctly. They can't be bailed out or have it be excused away when it's been nearly a decade of this.

I agree with the part about having to find work arounds. But maybe this year they worked on it

[Ghost Of The Year]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

It's beyond ridiculous that bullpen logic gets ignored year after year after year when we know SDS read these boards.

Kudos to people who found workarounds etc but I cannot normalize having to do all of this just to get the bullpen to function correctly. They can't be bailed out or have it be excused away when it's been nearly a decade of this.

Hopefully they didn't need to read any forum boards to know the logic is flawed. And whenever they get around to improving the logic, they can completely do away with closers, relievers and starters, and just call them all pitchers.

[canes21]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Hopefully they didn't need to read any forum boards to know the logic is flawed. And whenever they get around to improving the logic, they can completely do away with closers, relievers and starters, and just call them all pitchers.

Given how long this has been an issue it seems they need something to let them know the logic is flawed.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Given how long this has been an issue it seems they need something to let them know the logic is flawed.

They are well aware of the issue. The problem is how they fix it without breaking anything else while also taking into account all of the actual real life bullpen scenarios and logic. I think other priorities were higher on the list since while it doesn’t work the ideal way, it still works and they’d rather have that until they can fully fix all of the scenarios.

If they “fix” bullpen logic, they need to take into accurate manager tendencies, team usage rates, game scenario/inning (closer by committee, traditional closer, closer facing on the heart of the order), and a few other things. Then they also need to fix the batting order logic and team decision making for pinch hitters (which also need an upgrade anyway). So it’s not just fixing one problem, it’s fixing 10.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Last year kinda broke me lol. I got tired of having to control all 30 teams and handle all their lineups through the season. Sometimes it felt like I spent more time handling the CPU's lineup than actually playing the game.

This year I'm not doing all that.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[Cycloniac]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Last year kinda broke me lol. I got tired of having to control all 30 teams and handle all their lineups through the season. Sometimes it felt like I spent more time handling the CPU's lineup than actually playing the game.

This year I'm not doing all that.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

This is relatable. I didn't get far into my franchise because of this. It's so much work.

[jcar0725]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

This is relatable. I didn't get far into my franchise because of this. It's so much work.

30 team control is an amazing feature. You get out of it what you choose to put into it. If you want to micromanage every single detail of every team, you're going to burn yourself out. There really isn't a need to do all of that.

I use it to avoid the CPU from making dumb trades, having too many pitchers on their major league roster, or having a star player on their bench. That's it. Its adds about 30 seconds of time per game on average if I get a notification that a CPU team made a roster move.

[canes21]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

They are well aware of the issue. The problem is how they fix it without breaking anything else while also taking into account all of the actual real life bullpen scenarios and logic. I think other priorities were higher on the list since while it doesn’t work the ideal way, it still works and they’d rather have that until they can fully fix all of the scenarios.

If they “fix” bullpen logic, they need to take into accurate manager tendencies, team usage rates, game scenario/inning (closer by committee, traditional closer, closer facing on the heart of the order), and a few other things. Then they also need to fix the batting order logic and team decision making for pinch hitters (which also need an upgrade anyway). So it’s not just fixing one problem, it’s fixing 10.

What you're saying is the team that is over gameplay logic would have to improve gameplay logic? That's what we've been asking for for years. Managerial decisions by CPU controlled teams have been a major weakness with the gameplay for what feels like at least a decade at this point. Lineup construction, pitching staff construction, and in-game decision making have all been subpar for years and years now.

Whether it is an easy fix or not is irrelevant. This has been a problem for a very long time and fixing it is far from an unrealistic and impossible task. It's a AAA game that is priced at a AAA price. Given that, there are certain expectations that are placed on the game and in many areas SDS has met them. In others, they've not and it is completely fair to criticize them for that.

Your post feels more like a pity excuse post than an actual legitimate reason post, honestly, no offense intended. Imagine if I went to my CEO today and said sorry but I am not getting the financial statements out to the shareholders today. Reconciling some of the prior period adjustments is difficult and despite it being my job I don't feel like doing it. Maybe next year.

I'd get laughed at and then if I persisted with it, I'd be out of a job. It often feels like video game developers get held to a different standard than other occupations out there where whenever something is perceived as difficult we should just shrug our shoulders and forgive them for not doing part of their job to the expected quality as if they should only be asked to do easy tasks.

[soxfanbs91]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

Last year kinda broke me lol. I got tired of having to control all 30 teams and handle all their lineups through the season. Sometimes it felt like I spent more time handling the CPU's lineup than actually playing the game.

This year I'm not doing all that.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

This is relatable. I didn't get far into my franchise because of this. It's so much work.

I feel this so much. Since a couple relievers end up with very minimal innings over the course of a full season, it almost makes sense to drop bullpens from 8 to 7 and carry an extra bench bat.

30 team control is an amazing feature. You get out of it what you choose to put into it. If you want to micromanage every single detail of every team, you're going to burn yourself out. There really isn't a need to do all of that.

I use it to avoid the CPU from making dumb trades, having too many pitchers on their major league roster, or having a star player on their bench. That's it. Its adds about 30 seconds of time per game on average if I get a notification that a CPU team made a roster move.

[jcar0725]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

What you're saying is the team that is over gameplay logic would have to improve gameplay logic? That's what we've been asking for for years. Managerial decisions by CPU controlled teams have been a major weakness with the gameplay for what feels like at least a decade at this point. Lineup construction, pitching staff construction, and in-game decision making have all been subpar for years and years now.

Whether it is an easy fix or not is irrelevant. This has been a problem for a very long time and fixing it is far from an unrealistic and impossible task. It's a AAA game that is priced at a AAA price. Given that, there are certain expectations that are placed on the game and in many areas SDS has met them. In others, they've not and it is completely fair to criticize them for that.

Your post feels more like a pity excuse post than an actual legitimate reason post, honestly, no offense intended. Imagine if I went to my CEO today and said sorry but I am not getting the financial statements out to the shareholders today. Reconciling some of the prior period adjustments is difficult and despite it being my job I don't feel like doing it. Maybe next year.

I'd get laughed at and then if I persisted with it, I'd be out of a job. It often feels like video game developers get held to a different standard than other occupations out there where whenever something is perceived as difficult we should just shrug our shoulders and forgive them for not doing part of their job to the expected quality as if they should only be asked to do easy tasks.

What if the CEO's are the ones making the final decisions on where the developers are spending their time, and how much time they are allowed to spend in those areas? You literally have zero clue how management and projects, fees, time management, and making a profit work. And you have zero clue what goes on inside the SDS studios when it comes to game development and making money for a company.

Every single sports game has warts, every one of them. Because they have X amount of time and resources to spend each year in game development. And they likely have someone telling them what they can and can't do. As much as I would LOVE the bullpen and lineup logic to be fixed, the hardcore franchise player who is upset about bullpen logic is NOT the core audience that makes money for this game, or any other sports game.

[djflock]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

What if the CEO's are the ones making the final decisions on where the developers are spending their time, and how much time they are allowed to spend in those areas? You literally have zero clue how management and projects, fees, time management, and making a profit work. And you have zero clue what goes on inside the SDS studios when it comes to game development and making money for a company.

Every single sports game has warts, every one of them. Because they have X amount of time and resources to spend each year in game development. And they likely have someone telling them what they can and can't do. As much as I would LOVE the bullpen and lineup logic to be fixed, the hardcore franchise player who is upset about bullpen logic is NOT the core audience that makes money for this game, or any other sports game.

I hate when you guys split hairs as far as blame goes. We do not know who is to blame at SDS for this broken legacy bullpen/lineup code that has been used for the last 8 years or so. It's also not important to try and pinpoint an individual. At the end of the day, SDS needs to improve this code. Whether it is the one person coding logic in franchise doing more or the CEO allocating more resources to do it. Either way, they still charge us the same $70.

[djflock]

Re: AI Bullpen Logic

What if the CEO's are the ones making the final decisions on where the developers are spending their time, and how much time they are allowed to spend in those areas? You literally have zero clue how management and projects, fees, time management, and making a profit work. And you have zero clue what goes on inside the SDS studios when it comes to game development and making money for a company.

Every single sports game has warts, every one of them. Because they have X amount of time and resources to spend each year in game development. And they likely have someone telling them what they can and can't do. As much as I would LOVE the bullpen and lineup logic to be fixed, the hardcore franchise player who is upset about bullpen logic is NOT the core audience that makes money for this game, or any other sports game.

They are well aware of the issue. The problem is how they fix it without breaking anything else while also taking into account all of the actual real life bullpen scenarios and logic. I think other priorities were higher on the list since while it doesn’t work the ideal way, it still works and they’d rather have that until they can fully fix all of the scenarios.

If they “fix” bullpen logic, they need to take into accurate manager tendencies, team usage rates, game scenario/inning (closer by committee, traditional closer, closer facing on the heart of the order), and a few other things. Then they also need to fix the batting order logic and team decision making for pinch hitters (which also need an upgrade anyway). So it’s not just fixing one problem, it’s fixing 10.

So I think you may be overcomplicating the problem. I want the bullpen logic fixed where , for the last 8 years, they only use "setup" men in the 8th inning when up 3 runs or less and them using solely the same LR over and over basically any inning before the 7th.

You kind of jumped to them coding every single manager with different logic. Im not even sure that's possible because even IRL, the personnel and other things factor into how any manager uses their bullpen. I just want some sort of variety because at this point, I can almost tell you exactly who they are and aren't going to use at all times because its the same logic, that doesn't make sense, for every team for the past 8 years.

Maybe they could get rid of the LRP spot and change how all teams use their setup man. Maybe they could add those trait things to players that maybe say "tired arm - this pitcher cant throw 3 games in row". TBH, I think them just randomizing what RP the cpu uses or just prioritizing the most rested R would have better results at this time.

And you are right, Someone that went to community day a couple years ago said they ARE aware of these issues and that they were having problems with editing legacy code. That's a reason but not a valid excuse to not touch broken logic for 8 years. While it may not be the current devs fault, someone def dropped the ball with building code, that doesn't work well, and would not be able to be edited for close 10 years.