SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

[D13]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

How people come up with this stuff is so crazy lol. I just found it weird it never really got out there until today. At least on reddit or anything. But 1000 people doing it? Some have to be victims

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

exactly this some how was kept quiet for a month but the collections glitch lasted only 15 mins. something smells fishy.

[oski96]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

I noticed a few oddities in the marketplace in the 10 days


1. Trevor Rosenthal goes from 86-82. Yet his card fell maybe 2k. 6K to 4K.
2. Ervin Santana was suddenly selling for 1300 stubs all weekend (Fri-Mon)
3. Kevin Jepson was 2k Saturday & Sunday
4. Stanton was selling for 30K as of yesterday even after falling to 87
5. McCutchen was still over 20K yesterday after losing diamond status
6. Betances & Chapman cards as of yesterday were still 2K more than Miller even though Miller in Diamond

Those are not oddities:

Sets without high golds/diamonds always puts a premium on the highest cards in that set - even if they are silver. Seller know people need those cards to complete sets and thus, the market value remains high and not entirely connected to the card's rating.

For Stanton, that is easy. He just fell out of diamond in a particular week in which he seemed to have broken out of his slump. Even though he should have been downgraded weeks ago (per most people's opinion) he was not downgraded until this past week. Most buyers seem to focus too much on the current while forgetting market moves are done retrospectively. So, I am guessing the value remains high because people are over-optimistic that he will jump back up to diamond. Also, even though he is now gold, for the duration of this game, he was diamond - so his card remains rare for now.

Same with McCutchen.

Miller has always been low because his card has regularly been featured in the Captain's store.

[azstdogg]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

exactly this some how was kept quiet for a month but the collections glitch lasted only 15 mins. something smells fishy.

I agree. For 1000s of people to be doing this and it to be kept quiet seems weird. At the same time, if you gain 500K to 1 mill+, it's kind of hard not to notice the gains.

That said, I can think of a scenario (or two) where this might happen to capture an innocent victim, if the situation is in fact cancelling orders on PS4 and another device:

For those who aggressively play the market and wait for the Thursday night update and see a Diamond go Gold or Gold go Diamond, they probably want to sell/buy quickly. If they are managing multiple buy/sell offers they may be using another device and quickly cancelling when their orders are not the lowest/highest. Suppose they cancel on mobile while scrolling through their orders on PS4 and see the order still there, and they cancel it a 2nd time (or their mobile connection hangs for a few seconds and want to act quickly so they jump into the PS4 to do the same transaction). If they are flipping Diamonds, this could add up quickly.

Another could be 2+ people in a bidding war and trying to quickly outbid each other. Managing on a second device might make this easier. Or if you accidentally listed a card in the wrong buy/sell section and want to quickly cancel it before it's completed.

This might be a stretch, especially if those banned were doing it 30+ times. It's still kind of hard to not notice the gain. Though at the same time, if you know what the glitch was, why wouldn't you go big? 30 times for 500K is about 17K each time (about what a gold/diamond bid goes for). Unless there was a limit to the glitch or they were trying to fly under the radar (though 30+ attempts might draw a red flag as much as a single 500k attempt).

Again, I don't know exactly what the glitch was, but I would think more people would know about it and if they did, they'd go big (each transaction for 500K+), do it once or twice and be set with Stubs.

[elbomberoloco]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

I can understand your way of thinking to a point, but... When there's people that pay real money to buy stubs, and then on the other end there's people that knowingly exploit the game to acquire stubs by manipulating the marketplace, something has to be done. I mean if you're purposely putting in sell orders and cancelling them on multiple devices simultaneously to get refunded double the amount, you know what you're doing. You know that you're exploiting the game. You know that SDS doesn't want you to do this. From the look of twitter these people did this about 30 times each. Why should that be ok?

Again I'm not saying it's ok. But what I am definitely not ok with is Sony coming in and banning in the neighborhood of 1000's of accounts. The only warning being some generic corporate BS message coverage all basis in a forum most don't follow ? My concern is next week "the man" deems some other "glitch" like say the Yeti's a violation and bam done.

If I was running this there would have to be some acknowledgment of subpar programming, then I would send each user a message, removed the glitched currency (even if it causes a person a large negative balance) and call it a day.

Obviously the issue has not been fixed because the web page is still down to trade.

Also reading that some were banned because they bought below the quick sell value then quick sold for quick profit, not sure how Sony can justify this...that's market stupidity on the seller not really a glitch.

[elbomberoloco]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

exactly this some how was kept quiet for a month but the collections glitch lasted only 15 mins. something smells fishy.

In this day when everyone wants 15 min of fame and a youtube channel with followers, I'm not buying that 1500 people were practicing this and banned AND it was kept under wraps, obviously the collections glitch being a great case study...

[Jason_19]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

I was banned and I did absolutely nothing to exploit the system in any way. No one has to blindly believe me. They could go through my transactions, calculate my stubs totals and verify that for themselves. I did use a web browser to attempt to buy and sell players a few times because I was watching baseball on TV and didn't want to miss any more of the game than I already had, but I never cancelled orders on two devices to make stubs. I didn't even know that was a thing until researching these bans yesterday. I didn't waste dozens of hours buying and selling to make stubs (with like 6 or 7 hundred pages of transactions) when I could have been doubling stubs for free by simply placing bids and cancelling orders. I wasted so much time on this for nothing now. I was still wasting time buying and selling up until I was banned. I was even still sitting on like 60 Michael Sanders cards and like 77 Adam Duvall cards in the hopes of them going gold. I was also still buying tins of good common cards to build my created player because I'm so mindful and stingy with my stubs. Why would I be doing that when I could be getting free stubs? As for any other exploits or cheesing, I have never even cheesed and I knew of no other exploits until doing a ton of research yesterday after being banned because I was banned. As for cheesing, I don't even like stealing with players who can and do actually steal when behind in a game because I feel like I'm cheating because stealing is so easy most of the time. I never cheese because I'm all about simulation/realism and having fun playing video games.

[azstdogg]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

In this day when everyone wants 15 min of fame and a youtube channel with followers, I'm not buying that 1500 people were practicing this and banned AND it was kept under wraps, obviously the collections glitch being a great case study...

Another weird thing is that so many people are challenging Ramone to re-check their PSN ID (https://twitter.com/Ramone_Russell/s...45291638161414) and claiming to be innocent. If they knowingly did this, why challenge it by offering up your PSN ID? I'd figure everyone banned would claim innocent, but if you knowingly took advantage why go to this step knowing they have evidence. I'd expect more general "I didn't cheat." comments and less, "Can you re-check me? Here's my PSN."

[StillFried]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

Another weird thing is that so many people are challenging Ramone to re-check their PSN ID (https://twitter.com/Ramone_Russell/s...45291638161414) and claiming to be innocent. If they knowingly did this, why challenge it by offering up your PSN ID? I'd figure everyone banned would claim innocent, but if you knowingly took advantage why go to this step knowing they have evidence. I'd expect more general "I didn't cheat." comments and less, "Can you re-check me? Here's my PSN."

I saw that. I also saw Ramone answer some of them with something along the lines of "You manipulated the market 31 times for a total of 3 million stubs" or "You're in the top 1% of the exploiters". Yet, they're still challenging him. If you keep telling yourself that you didn't do anything wrong, maybe you actually start believing it too. Ramone also mentioned that the bans can range from 1 day, to a week, month, or permanently depending on the severity of your offense. They have data to back up these bans. Hopefully the people who are "wrongfully banned" have the shorter versions. Perhaps there are some people with unjust bans, in all like hood those will be cleared up.

[Jason_19]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

I want someone at San Diego Studios to check my account and tell me what specifically I allegedly did. They could calculate my stubs totals to see that I wasn't doubling my stubs by cancelling orders on two screens. Why would I have been wasting countless hours buying and selling when I could have placed and canceled a single bid and doubled my usual 60,000-100,000 in stubs I usually use to try to buy and sell in trying to flip Dave Winfield, throwback Victor Martinez and a few other players? I spend like an hour to sometimes around 3 or 4 hours a day off and on sometimes just trying to make about 8-15,000 in stubs.

[oski96]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

I was banned and I did absolutely nothing to exploit the system in any way. No one has to blindly believe me. They could go through my transactions, calculate my stubs totals and verify that for themselves. I did use a web browser to attempt to but and sell players a few times because I was watching baseball on TV and didn't want to miss any more of the game than I already had, but I never cancelled orders on two devices to make stubs. I didn't even know that was a thing until researching these bans yesterday. I didn't waste dozens of hours buying and selling to make stubs (with like 6 or 7 hundred pages of transactions) when I could have been doubling stubs for free by simply placing bids and cancelling orders. I wasted so much time on this for nothing now. I was still wasting time buying and selling up until I was banned. I was even still sitting on like 60 Michael Sanders card and 77 Adam Duvall cards in the hopes of them going gold. I was also still buying tins of good common cards to build my created player because I'm so mindful and stingy with my stubs. Why would I be doing that when I could be getting free stubs? As for any other exploits or cheesing, I have never even cheesed and I knew of no other exploits until doing a ton of research yesterday after being banned because I was banned. I don't even like stealing with players who can and do actually steal when behind in a game because I feel like I'm cheating because stealing is so easy most of the time.

That's basically my story too. The only change is that I only used my computer to trade when my son was playing PS4. Otherwise, all my trades were on the PS4. I have thousands of pages of trades as well - I have spent hundreds of hours on the game (mostly playing, btw). If I knew of a shortcut, the hours I put in sure don't reflect it. I still had not completed all of my sets - I guess if I was cheating, I'm not very good at it.

[Beatles]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

I think that people here that were banned and did nothing wrong just need to be patient with the San Diego team while they iron everything out. That's how I would approach the situation anyway.

[Jason_19]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

That's basically my story too. The only change is that I only used my computer to trade when my son was playing PS4. Otherwise, all my trades were on the PS4. I have thousands of pages of trades as well - I have spent hundreds of hours on the game (mostly playing, btw). If I knew of a shortcut, the hours I put in sure don't reflect it. I still had not completed all of my sets - I guess if I was cheating, I'm not very good at it.

I know what you mean.

I also wanted to point out that I couldn't see myself having cancelled many orders online because there were only a few nights where I was trying to purchase players online (Winfield, throwback Adrian Gonzalez were a couple I can think of) and that was because I was trying to watch TV and I found players with a wide price gap from their purchase now price to the bid price. That is the easiest way to make stubs.

The pages in the market take so long to refresh on my computer browser, that I barely even made any transactions online. I definitely wasn't switching back and forth making orders on both so I don't even see how this happened, unless I placed an order online, got on my computer and saw that I was outbid and then cancelled that order. If I had went back to my PS4 and that order was still there and I cancelled that order, I would like to think that I would have noticed all the extra tokens (if on an order where you would obviously notice). If that did happen, maybe that was for lesser players and I didn't notice that. Why would I have done that intentionally though when I could easily have sold all of my diamonds in about 5-20 minutes to get a ton of stubs to then place and cancel 2 or 3 orders and get enough stubs to buy every single player who I would like to have including the ones I just sold to get enough stubs to be able to do that? Edit: I wouldn't even needed to have sold all of my diamond cards because I usually have about 60,000-105,000 stubs to work with (to buy and sell with). This is just so silly. I could have used that amount and placed 8-12 orders to get enough stubs to outright purchase every player I would like to have.

[oski96]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

I think that people here that were banned and did nothing wrong just need to be patient with the San Diego team while they iron everything out. That's how I would approach the situation anyway.

I have very little faith in that. SDS has already committed a PR disaster and the only way to mitigate it is to draw a line in the sand.

[srdclark]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

In this day when everyone wants 15 min of fame and a youtube channel with followers, I'm not buying that 1500 people were practicing this and banned AND it was kept under wraps, obviously the collections glitch being a great case study...

Those are two very different situations, however. The collection glitch was something anybody could find by opening the mission page. The amount one could gain was limited to one copy of each glitched card, at which point there is nothing to gain besides YouTube views.

The stub glitch (and I'm assuming for my argument that the glitch in question was based on double-cancelling orders on separate devices) was not something just anybody would discover. As has been mentioned, it took a really random occurrence with multiple steps to replicate and, while it technically could occur by accident, the user wouldn't notice in most cases. Those that did notice, and then pushed the exploit and ultimately repeated an optimized version of it (i.e., posting a 50k bid on a common, then double-cancelling, then performing this 30 times) would have a theoretically unlimited gain with an actual dollar amount. In fact, the only "limit" this exploit would have, would be for the exploit to be noticed. If noticed by "the public" it would risk destroying the market and devaluing the stub (so that commons really were worth 50k, for instance); if noticed by "the devs" it would risk stub removal at best, banning at worst.

So, in this case, the exploit relies on secrecy. This type of security issue can indeed be kept very secret, even on the internet. Let me give you a parallel example: after weeks of legal battle, media attacks and internet debate, the terrorist iPhone was unlocked by... a third party with an exploit that almost nobody (including Apple!) knew about.

Reading this, you are probably a bank customer, but you likely aren't aware of even a single occasion in which an exploit (through cross-site scripting, perhaps) was used to steal from the bank or from other customers; yet, it happens, and costs your bank (and their insurer) large sums each year. You are likely a Windows user, but you aren't aware of all of the exploits that were used prior to each Patch Tuesday, or all of the ones that started being used on the following Wednesday. This really is the world we live in, where even engaged customers don't know how fragile these systems really are, or how hard people work to get in and keep it quiet. As Last Week Tonight said about the iPhone, "Join us as we dance madly on the edge of a volcano."

[elbomberoloco]

Re: SDS ban hammer thousdans for exploit

srdclark I see your point but I'm not buying 1500 people keeping this quiet that is way too many for 2016...

In fact over the last week or so there have been random common players that spiked for no apparent reason, maybe that was from this...