2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

[joshopsu]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

I just got thru another sim with 1 team control (PHI) with ignore budget - ON (no payroll ceiling). After 2 offseasons, the Dec 2 overload of prospects into free agency is still prevalent. On Dec 3rd, a 25 year old with 1 year of MLB experience became a Type A free agent. This should not be happening.
I think it may have to do with renewal. Because when I go to renew a prospect or young players contract, the player ALMOST ALWAYS ASKS for more money than I am gonna give him. I offer a lowball contract (that of course the player is going to reject). This then enables me, as a human control, to sign the young player after Feb 15 (I think), to a salary that is at least 80% than the year prior.

MY THEORY: is that the CPU is not offering the lowball salary to renewal players. I think that the CPU gets "scared off" by what the player ASKS FOR, and subsequently releases the player into free agency by not offering a lowball. I would put money on it that this is the case to our glitch!


Also, some prospects with A potential and 0 MLB experience were also becoming free agents on Dec 3.

P.S. As the Phillies, I made offers to 95% of my roster to maintain status quo in the organization.

But we should stop calling this the 2013/2014 glitch because it's happening in the first offseason.

I would call it the young player renewal glitch...

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

It's not actually. IMO it's pretty simple. (I'm not saying simple to fix...but simple to see what seems to be happening.)
...and the more I see that Dec. 2nd date...the more I think that the A.I. is thinking it has the same amount of time to sign/offer younger players and upcoming FA's contracts as it did last year which was December 15th I believe.
The MLB changed it's exclusive signing date to 5 days and so did SCEA....but I think somehow...the CPU still sees it as 15. The date goes by....and FA's galore!

I would also like to see the CPU be a bit more aggressive overall in signings....but that's another day I would think.
To me it seems.....getting the arbitration....contract renewals and offers to the >6 year guys(generalizing)....is the fix for the most part. It opens up the rest of the signings.

The trading in 30 team control...seems like a straightforward deal as well. Have teams change their strategies as they do when you don't choose 30 team control.
That's pretty much it I think as far as the franchise issues.

M.K.
Knight165

Agreed!

[ktd1976]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

It's not actually. IMO it's pretty simple. (I'm not saying simple to fix...but simple to see what seems to be happening.)
...and the more I see that Dec. 2nd date...the more I think that the A.I. is thinking it has the same amount of time to sign/offer younger players and upcoming FA's contracts as it did last year which was December 15th I believe.
The MLB changed it's exclusive signing date to 5 days and so did SCEA....but I think somehow...the CPU still sees it as 15. The date goes by....and FA's galore!

I would also like to see the CPU be a bit more aggressive overall in signings....but that's another day I would think.
To me it seems.....getting the arbitration....contract renewals and offers to the >6 year guys(generalizing)....is the fix for the most part. It opens up the rest of the signings.

The trading in 30 team control...seems like a straightforward deal as well. Have teams change their strategies as they do when you don't choose 30 team control.
That's pretty much it I think as far as the franchise issues.

M.K.
Knight165

That isn't quite right, though.....In the game, the last day of "exclusive negotiating" is NOV 3rd....after that players become FA's....the DEC 2/3 thing is a whole different story....and I don't think that date has changed from last year (maybe I'm wrong)....

[Knight165]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

That isn't quite right, though.....In the game, the last day of "exclusive negotiating" is NOV 3rd....after that players become FA's....the DEC 2/3 thing is a whole different story....and I don't think that date has changed from last year (maybe I'm wrong)....

I wasn't looking at the game...just going by the dates you guys mentioned.
Well....the amount of days has changed....from 15 to 5......and the exclusive date is for offers I believe.
When does the actual FA period start?....
Are all the offers happening on day 1 of the exclusive?...I would think not...and if the CPU thinks it can continue to make offers in days 6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/14 and 15.....but they can't....I think that's causing some of the guys getting let go.
Of course we are all just speculating right now....

M.K.
Knight165

[Neolithic]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

After running a couple more sims, as far as I can tell, it's much like what josh just said. Teams don't handle the contract renewal stuff well.

Dec 2nd is a date that you have to offer ANY contract, 1 year, 1 dollar, just any contract at all in order to be able to use the contract renewal funtion after feb 15th.

The problem is, CPU teams get "scared off" by the contract demands of the better players that are subject to contract renewal. They then don't offer any contract, and subsequently lose them to FA as of Dec 3. The CPU doesn't realize it has control over those players, and can just offer them a lowball 1 year deal as a "retainer" of sorts until feb 15th and then renew their contracts.

It's odd, because, the CPU handles each individual part of the offseason fine. They make offers and arbitration offers to their own guys during the exclusive period, they continue to make FA offers, after the exclusive period. They use the contract renewal function after Feb 15th (just seems to be on players that don't want big deals and don't "scare" them off) The problem seems to be it's skill in using ALL of these functions as a complete offseason. Almost as if the CPU can't see the whole picture, and sees every contract renewal as just a straight up bid for a FA, instead of having the forethought to make a small retainer offer, in order to resign them after Feb 15th.

This is the underlying issue I think. And as Knight said, it's probably something simple to actually fix. It's all of this that we've been doing and digging through the under the hood code to find the way to properly fix it. Coming from someone who has experience in coding, I can have a problem, I can know exactly what the problem is, but, it's the making a proper coding fix that's the hard part. Hopefully SCEA has been on top of it, and will have something to say on the subject soon.

[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

Hustlin...

Great!

1 team control. Attach your one and only profile to 1 team, with lineups, training...everything set to auto.

In the franchise menu screen, set all budgets to off.

Sim the season and sim all drafts. Sim the Playoffs and advance to the offseason.

For this sim, advance one day at a time until the day after the exclusive negotiations period.

On this day, offer all players that are arbitration eligible AND contract renewable a default contract...the one the CPU automatically let's you offer. Sim the remainder of the offseason.

Once you reach spring, save a screen of the FA pool. Do this until the 2014 season.

Try to save often, incase we have questions on prospects, etc. Maybe a save at the beginning of the season, the beginning of the offseason, and the end of the offseason.

Just make your offers on this one day only, and allow the CPU to do the remaining offseason offers for you.

Hopefully this makes sense.

Thanks a lot man.

FYI...every one else, I'm curious to see if the days contracts are offered are the key here. The last tester offered them on day one. I want Hustlin to offer on day 6.

Is that okay?

Here are my FA's entering 2014

[Knight165]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

Okay....this is important....(with and without 30 team control)
1.-Are you guys seeing teams offer arbitration properly....?
2.-Are you guys seeing teams offer renewable contract players offers?
3.-Are they losing control of the young players as a cause of the above?
4.-Do you feel like the FA problem is a separate issue from the above or because of the above?

I haven't been testing like you guys but rather going off what you guys have been posting.

If you guys could post
-what you think the problem points are
-what you think needs to be done to remedy it(just the process...not the coding obviously)
Thanks!

M.K.
Knight165

[ktd1976]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

I wasn't looking at the game...just going by the dates you guys mentioned.
Well....the amount of days has changed....from 15 to 5......and the exclusive date is for offers I believe.
When does the actual FA period start?....
Are all the offers happening on day 1 of the exclusive?...I would think not...and if the CPU thinks it can continue to make offers in days 6/7/8/9/10/11/12/13/14 and 15.....but they can't....I think that's causing some of the guys getting let go.
Of course we are all just speculating right now....

M.K.
Knight165

Free agency begins the day after the last day of "exclusive negotiating" which is Nov 4th, I think. Teams have until Dec 2 to offer their "under 6 years exp.) players a contract, or offer arbitration. On Dec 3rd, any player not offered arbitration, or tendered a contract, becomes a free agent, effectively being "non-tendered." This appears to be what is happening. For whatever reason, the CPU is "non-tendering" these players. I don't think this time period has changed from last years game though....but I could be wrong on that.

[Knight165]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

Free agency begins the day after the last day of "exclusive negotiating" which is Nov 4th, I think. Teams have until Dec 2 to offer their "under 6 years exp.) players a contract, or offer arbitration. On Dec 3rd, any player not offered arbitration, or tendered a contract, becomes a free agent, effectively being "non-tendered." This appears to be what is happening. For whatever reason, the CPU is "non-tendering" these players. I don't think this time period has changed from last years game though....but I could be wrong on that.

Okay...that hasn't changed...correct.... JUST the exclusive period has.
Like I said...I'm not doing the actual testing right now...just following what you guys have been seeing....but I'm trying to get something comprehensive together.
Thanks.

M.k.
Knight165

[Neolithic]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

Quick thought:

I think the "band-aid" fix is to insert code that runs on Dec 2nd, and makes every CPU team go through their "contract renewable" flagged players, and if they haven't received an offer yet, offer a 1 yr/50k contract to them. This will act as the retainer offer. That will keep them out of the FA pool till at least spring training. Then you have to go into the AI Logic for deciding to renew contracts or not. One way is to just make it renew every available contract, or, narrow it to always renew A and B potential players no matter what on say Feb 28th. Using whatever under the hood logic there is now for anyone C potential or lower.

It's not the perfect fix, but it would essentially keep players under control of their team for 6 years of MLB service time (at least in the case of A and B potential prospects, which generally is true, barring major catastrophic injury or wild circumstanct, teams give those kind of prospects every chance to succeed, rarely cutting them or letting them go before they lose absolute control over them)

that's how I would fix it, but I don't know anything about how they wrote their code or how it runs under the hood. This is just my observations from the outside.

[ktd1976]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

Okay....this is important....(with and without 30 team control)
1.-Are you guys seeing teams offer arbitration properly....?
2.-Are you guys seeing teams offer renewable contract players offers?
3.-Are they losing control of the young players as a cause of the above?
4.-Do you feel like the FA problem is a separate issue from the above or because of the above?

I haven't been testing like you guys but rather going off what you guys have been posting.

If you guys could post
-what you think the problem points are
-what you think needs to be done to remedy it(just the process...not the coding obviously)
Thanks!

M.K.
Knight165

this is with 30 team control, one human profile, all the rest to auto, except training which I leave Manual for everyone.
1. Yes and no....I have seen the CPU offer arbitration to players, but if they do this DURING the exclusive 5 day period, when that period ends, the offer disappears..making it as though the player wasn't offered arbitration. (this is true for human teams as well)

2. I don't believe the CPU is offering "renewable contract players" offers, at least in the later years, for whatever reason, causing them to be non-tendered, when they should be tendered contracts.

3. YES

4. I think the star players in free agency bug is a direct result of the good younger players hitting the market, demanding huge contracts, getting signed to those contracts, and thus eating up budget space, causing these "star" free agents to go unsigned.

what needs to be done, is fix the glitch that makes arbitration offers disappear after the exclusive period. And fix it so the CPU teams (in 30 team control) make arbitration offers, and tender contracts to the "renewable contract players" thus keeping their contracts reasonable for the first 6 years.....allowing budget room to sign the star free agents.

[Knight165]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

HO;
Did you do the same with 30 team control?...but just making the offers to one(your) team?
I wonder if it's similar....cause that looks good.

Oh...and that RF in the last screen.
HE LOOKS AWESOME AND HANDSOME!
(look at that...same initials as me!)

M.K.
Knight165

[HustlinOwl]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

HO;
Did you do the same with 30 team control?...but just making the offers to one(your) team?
I wonder if it's similar....cause that looks good.

Oh...and that RF in the last screen.
HE LOOKS AWESOME AND HANDSOME!
(look at that...same initials as me!)

M.K.
Knight165

did not. Was single team control with ignore budgets on

[tabarnes19_SDS]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

Okay....this is important....(with and without 30 team control)
1.-Are you guys seeing teams offer arbitration properly....?
No. Teams do not offer arbitration for all players. Especially ones with less that 6 years service. Most established vets Type A free agents are not offered arb yet the cpu recieves compensation.

2.-Are you guys seeing teams offer renewable contract players offers?
Some. Many times what happens is players not on 40, prospects are not renewed or even offered by cpu. These players are cut loose, become FA and recieve substantially more money.

3.-Are they losing control of the young players as a cause of the above?
Yes

4.-Do you feel like the FA problem is a separate issue from the above or because of the above?
I feel it is because of the above with one caveat....I also feel the Free Agent list is tied in. Reason being is so many free agents are signed off the list, newly drafted players come in and there is no place for players any more.


I haven't been testing like you guys but rather going off what you guys have been posting.

If you guys could post
-what you think the problem points are
-what you think needs to be done to remedy it(just the process...not the coding obviously)
Thanks!

I think the simplest solution is for the cpu to automatically offer/renew all players under 6 years service time. As long as they are
a. a ML player
b. An A, B, C player under age 25

All players that are above C should be offered arb the first 6 years of ML service time.

M.K.
Knight165

This is what I think for what it's worth.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: 2013 Franchise Issue Explained (With Pics)

Knight, 30 team trade logic is much like last year's. Single team trade logic has the 'new' logic that Ramone mentioned.

Guys, the exclusive negations period ends 5 days after the end of the season. Not a specific date...as far as I can tell.

Hustlin, I just skimmed through the screens, so I didn't review all the potentials (my battery is dying)...but it would appear that starting negotiations, even with one team, and no budgets, kept 'known stars' out of FA...or...

Did Neo get that too when he offered on day one (not day 6)? I'll have to review these two tests tomorrow...dang battery.