Slow/incorrect animations...

[Pared]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I remember that video, but that video was at a different angle and also showed more poor logic in the baserunning area (which helps my point that the devs are responsible for most of this). I can see that I didnt have a 100% dead on angle, but I still dont feel like it was an angle that warranted the the stop and start motion (dont know what else to call it). it looks like my LF backhanded the ball (didnt see that at first) when he should have come around it a bit which is probably what caused that animation. the purpose of pre-loading is to get into the correct animation if you are "close" which I think in this case it was. also these issues dont seem to arise in early innings which is a head scratcher to me. Im definitely gonna keep an eye out for more and post more videos.

Definitely post more if you want to have a discussion about it. I don't know what you're trying to get at with the comment "the devs are responsible for most of this" based on the discussion but I guess that's just me.

Just know that the videos help more than the exaggerated written examples some used ever can.

3) Good point. We should get some faster throw animations from pick up catches.

We discussed this at length at Community Day. It must have just been an oversight. The animations where players bare-hand a ball and then pump before a throw were removed at one point but somehow made their way back in the game.

[Woodweaver]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

*SNIP*

We discussed this at length at Community Day. It must have just been an oversight. The animations where players bare-hand a ball and then pump before a throw were removed at one point but somehow made their way back in the game.

Yeah, it looks like faster ones were captured for the outfielders, but not the infielders (at least not every direction)...*sigh*. A trip to mo-cap should resolve it.

[spit_bubble]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

Saw this thread pop up again... Don't have the time to read through it all, but just wanted to give more feedback to the developing team who show up here from time to time...

A big issue I keep on seeing is poor footwork from infielders. Like I said earlier (or maybe it was another thread, I forget) there seems to be a lack of awareness on the play that needs to be made... And this isn't user error here, the bad animations and AI are in the game, plain and simple... They happen both when I'm fielding and when the CPU is fielding.

Example, last game I hit a chopper up the middle with Johnny Damon... The CPU controlled SS just gets to it before it goes through... I think it's gonna be a close play... But the SS takes an extra little hop before he throws and Damon beats the play...

Let me try to explain it a little better since I didn't save the replay... SS fields the ball, as he's coming up his right foot hits the ground... He straightens, plants his left foot, takes another step with his right and throws...

It's that last step that should be eliminated. Watch any pro infielder... Heck, even watch the college guys in Omaha this week, they will pretty much never take that extra step. Even on tough plays where they have to range one way or another, they will get rid of the ball like it's hot... It's ball to glove, right foot plant, and throw.

This problem appears maybe once every couple of games or so, sometimes more, sometimes less... On average it happens way too often. If I remember I'll save the video next time... But in the meantime I strongly suggest that you get rid of the majority of animations that have infielders taking extra steps and holding the ball for too long...

And next time you watch a game in real life watch the infielders and watch their feet... Even on routine plays you will usually see them get rid of the ball without any extra steps, because they've been trained to do it this way and it just becomes a habit.

So that's the infield... As for outfield, well...

[Pared]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

A trip to mo-cap should resolve it.

Doesn't it always?

At least they won't have to throw themselves all over the floor for this one.

-CUT-

There are PLENTY of times where the user will NOT hold the throw like a MLB player would because they "think they can make the out." There was even an example posted earlier about this.

This may be one of those times. Without video I can't say for sure.

[jd369]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I obviously dont know the answer to his so I have to ask, but how much experience do the folks doing the mo-caps have with playing baseball and fielding balls? if there isnt much experience or they have never played ball then they may not know the correct footwork anything even if you are athletic, if you havent played baseball before you probably wont know things like quick flips or what position to put yourself in as far as charging a ball, or my biggest pet peeve of something thats missing, first and third baseman side steps to get a force out when they are close to the bag instead of turning their whole body. things like that can be picked up from watching games on TV, but nothing beats actual experience in the field. if that happens to be the reason things arent as refined its as simple as hiring someone that has played ball.

also another question about mo capping. is there not software available to where you can mo cap from video? lets just say you see a web gem on sports center. can you not apply mo cap points to the video and then let the video play, thus setting up an animation for your game?

[Dogbarian]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

You know, looking at most of those videos, the ones where JD369 is complaining about a lob or late throw, I think it's from not preloading the throw. I have RTTS guys playing 3B and outfield, and once I learned to preload, I've made that charging in throw (in fact, my CF has laid out more than once in following through on making a hard charging throw home), and I've made those hard pegs to second base from third. I've made barehanded pickup-and-throws as well on infield dribblers, although can't remember if any of those have been from the pitcher.

So, the animations are definitely in there. And if you are already preloading, maybe you are doing it too late, or not holding the throw correctly?

Addition - another thing I noticed, if you are still moving the left stick when you get to the ball, the fielder doesn't always settle into fielding position. My SS ran over/by a ball hit to his right this weekend because I was late reacting and then was still moving with the stick hard over when the ball got to me. He didn't even put his glove down.

[nomo17k]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

You know, looking at most of those videos, the ones where JD369 is complaining about a lob or late throw, I think it's from not preloading the throw. I have RTTS guys playing 3B and outfield, and once I learned to preload, I've made that charging in throw (in fact, my CF has laid out more than once in following through on making a hard charging throw home), and I've made those hard pegs to second base from third. I've made barehanded pickup-and-throws as well on infield dribblers, although can't remember if any of those have been from the pitcher.

So, the animations are definitely in there. And if you are already preloading, maybe you are doing it too late, or not holding the throw correctly?

No, lobbing is definitely there even if you preload well ahead of the time... CPU has the same problem. As Woodweaver wrote, it's something they'll be improving on.

[jd369]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

You know, looking at most of those videos, the ones where JD369 is complaining about a lob or late throw, I think it's from not preloading the throw. I have RTTS guys playing 3B and outfield, and once I learned to preload, I've made that charging in throw (in fact, my CF has laid out more than once in following through on making a hard charging throw home), and I've made those hard pegs to second base from third. I've made barehanded pickup-and-throws as well on infield dribblers, although can't remember if any of those have been from the pitcher.

So, the animations are definitely in there. And if you are already preloading, maybe you are doing it too late, or not holding the throw correctly?

Addition - another thing I noticed, if you are still moving the left stick when you get to the ball, the fielder doesn't always settle into fielding position. My SS ran over/by a ball hit to his right this weekend because I was late reacting and then was still moving with the stick hard over when the ball got to me. He didn't even put his glove down.

throws are definitely pre-loaded, I dont think you can pre-load a throw too late as long as you are have done it before the ball is in your glove. I almost never quick throw. I will test out the stick movement thing as well. I get good throws to the plate a lot, my gripe is you will never see a guy do what the LF did there and come to a complete stop.

[Woodweaver]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I obviously dont know the answer to his so I have to ask, but how much experience do the folks doing the mo-caps have with playing baseball and fielding balls? if there isnt much experience or they have never played ball then they may not know the correct footwork anything even if you are athletic, if you havent played baseball before you probably wont know things like quick flips or what position to put yourself in as far as charging a ball, or my biggest pet peeve of something thats missing, first and third baseman side steps to get a force out when they are close to the bag instead of turning their whole body. things like that can be picked up from watching games on TV, but nothing beats actual experience in the field. if that happens to be the reason things arent as refined its as simple as hiring someone that has played ball.

also another question about mo capping. is there not software available to where you can mo cap from video? lets just say you see a web gem on sports center. can you not apply mo cap points to the video and then let the video play, thus setting up an animation for your game?

There are a variety of mo-cap actors. We have had MLB players, minor league players, and college players in the studio.

There is a technique to capture animations from video. It is called rotoscoping. Without getting into technical details, suffice it to say that it is inferior to motion capture in most ways for sports games.

[jd369]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

There are a variety of mo-cap actors. We have had MLB players, minor league players, and college players in the studio.

There is a technique to capture animations from video. It is called rotoscoping. Without getting into technical details, suffice it to say that it is inferior to motion capture in most ways for sports games.

sweet. thanks for the info.

[jkra0512]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I always thought the lob came from the second baseman not getting to the bag on time, so he's forced to "lead" them.

[treyraq]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I think the bottom line here is that new animations would really be nice. A lot. I can't begin to imagine the hours and work needed to get some in the game, but I can tell you that that would freshen up the look and feel (=excitement/enjoyment) of the game.

Now, if you don't follow baseball, or you tend to casually watch games, fielders (and their motions) will tend to look similar regardless of size or ability. In The Show, you end up seeing fielders at certain positions performing the same motions. I understand that, okay shortstops are more agile than third basemen, so they perform more sliding, twirling, cross-body throws, whatever.

However, it's my opinion that almost all shortstops perform the same motions, with just the frequency altered by ability. Almost all third basemen motions look identical. Almost all...etc.

If SCEA could somehow manage to implement a fielder's size (or build) and therefore their agility/throwing strength together with their fielding ability into their animations, perhaps some more authentic, and "personalized" defensive animations would result. I don't mean for individual players, but for different player models.

I just mean that a Dustin Pedroia should have more agile and athletic animations than someone like Jeff Kent when he was still playing at 40.
We should be able to see some flashy animations from guys like Alex Gonzalez. Offense has always received the love with personalized stances--defense can be just as exciting.

If NBA games can do it with player models, it can be done. It just needs to be developed.

And even if play like this is still a ways out, at least some flat out new animations for the current The Show engine would suffice. A lot more 'truer' animations with less things like players tap-dancing, lollygagging, and those ridiculous infielder slides.

*smiley*

[treyraq]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

A big issue I keep on seeing is poor footwork from infielders. Like I said earlier (or maybe it was another thread, I forget) there seems to be a lack of awareness on the play that needs to be made... And this isn't user error here, the bad animations and AI are in the game, plain and simple... They happen both when I'm fielding and when the CPU is fielding.

This problem appears maybe once every couple of games or so, sometimes more, sometimes less... On average it happens way too often. If I remember I'll save the video next time... But in the meantime I strongly suggest that you get rid of the majority of animations that have infielders taking extra steps and holding the ball for too long...

And next time you watch a game in real life watch the infielders and watch their feet... Even on routine plays you will usually see them get rid of the ball without any extra steps, because they've been trained to do it this way and it just becomes a habit.

So that's the infield... As for outfield, well...

Bingo
.

[ChernoTheInferno]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I just have one request: PLEASE cut down on the outfielder tumbling to the ground animations. They happen, but not at the insane frequency as in The Show 11. Easily the least realistic part of outfield play. It happens pretty much almost every game I've ever played in The Show 11. It's ridiculous. In my CF RttS every game I'm backing up Ryan Sweeney and Michael Taylor tumbling in RF (they alternate). Even when I'm hitting it happens way too much. This does not happen in baseball nearly as often as it does in The Show 11.

[Russell_SCEA]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I think the bottom line here is that new animations would really be nice. A lot. I can't begin to imagine the hours and work needed to get some in the game, but I can tell you that that would freshen up the look and feel (=excitement/enjoyment) of the game.

Now, if you don't follow baseball, or you tend to casually watch games, fielders (and their motions) will tend to look similar regardless of size or ability. In The Show, you end up seeing fielders at certain positions performing the same motions. I understand that, okay shortstops are more agile than third basemen, so they perform more sliding, twirling, cross-body throws, whatever.

However, it's my opinion that almost all shortstops perform the same motions, with just the frequency altered by ability. Almost all third basemen motions look identical. Almost all...etc.

If SCEA could somehow manage to implement a fielder's size (or build) and therefore their agility/throwing strength together with their fielding ability into their animations, perhaps some more authentic, and "personalized" defensive animations would result. I don't mean for individual players, but for different player models.

I just mean that a Dustin Pedroia should have more agile and athletic animations than someone like Jeff Kent when he was still playing at 40.
We should be able to see some flashy animations from guys like Alex Gonzalez. Offense has always received the love with personalized stances--defense can be just as exciting.

If NBA games can do it with player models, it can be done. It just needs to be developed.

And even if play like this is still a ways out, at least some flat out new animations for the current The Show engine would suffice. A lot more 'truer' animations with less things like players tap-dancing, lollygagging, and those ridiculous infielder slides.

*smiley*

I think the bottom line here is that new animations would really be nice.

Our catalog of animations is over 30,000 now. Every year hundreds more or added.

If SCEA could somehow manage to implement a fielder's size (or build) and therefore their agility/throwing strength together with their fielding ability into their animations, perhaps some more authentic, and "personalized" defensive animations would result. I don't mean for individual players, but for different player models.

I just mean that a Dustin Pedroia should have more agile and athletic animations than someone like Jeff Kent when he was still playing at 40.
We should be able to see some flashy animations from guys like Alex Gonzalez. Offense has always received the love with personalized stances--defense can be just as exciting.

Player models don't really have anything to do with animations. However the game already takes into account a players fielding, throw accuracy, throw power, speed, and reaction rating. When the game decides what animations will play.