Slow/incorrect animations...

[Pared]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

This isn't a wishlist, jd. Let's not lose track.

[jd369]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

all suggestions about how to use and understand animations better. completely on track.

[Galvatron]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I don't think the "step on the bag" animation was triggered tho... or at least didn't finish. That animation is one that runs thru the bag, and releases the throw to 1B on the SS side of the bag. Looks like he was just gathering and planting to throw to 1B. Are you sure you held up/triangle when you fielded the ball?

Absolutely sure(triangle in this case). Immediately in fact. If you watch that very last step before the stop and throw, his left leg extends to where the base would be if he was in the correct spot, because there'd be no other reason for that extra step (I dont think he had that much momentum) I've seen this same animation triggered properly in this situation so I'm sure it is indeed the step on bag motion. I felt that this occurred because he was too close to the bag to make a lob, with Hairston the SS coming to a stop at 2nd and not able to make a catch animation, so the AI attempted to make Emaus take the out himself. Not a bad play or animation, but just a bit out of position to happen, a glitch perhaps.

[Pared]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

Not with animations, but rather how to understand how to play the game.

[Woodweaver]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I knew that was in there, woody. I know I've done it.

The only thing to really take from this is to perhaps eliminate the exaggerated "set" animations that occur from the lack of the game getting input from the player at the right time to pre-load. Cut the animations shorter and also include some fail animations, such as a bobble or error. Give the user more control in those situations where when the user messes up they KNOW they mess up. I see a lot of claims of bad animations but it is what happens when you miss your pre-load window - the currently one plays out and you're stuck.

I'm sure while this is a lot of work (sorry Chris!) it would also add to the control players want over the game.

Yes, some of those catch animations take a "while" to reach the "throw ready" or "set" branch. Currently, the way I handle a situation in which a "long" catch animation is being used and I have missed the "standard" branch is to hit the left analog stick toward my target and as soon as I start moving, try to throw again. This tactic results in an "on the run" throw, but it is only beneficial when you are stuck in a "really long" catch. Alternately, I will suck it up and do one of three things:

1) Hope for the best for the throw from the set position
2) Cancel the throw all together
3) Redirect to a new target if it makes situational sense

I do like the idea of including some sort of bobbling animation to indicate missing the branch though. Hmmm, on the list...

[Pared]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

From what I know about the system woody, I think the trimming of the animations that lead to throw ready would be a monumental change for the entire system.

While I don't know the number of animations you'd have to address (and it scares me to think about it) I do know that some of the fielding anim's take too many steps to get "set" and that's the root of this entire discussion.

Perhaps the speed of how quickly they play out can be addressed as well. I know I personally had a play last night where the catcher got out from his squat to field a bunt bare-handed and throw. The only problem is there was no "urgency" on this play so I can see how someone blames animations.

[Woodweaver]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

Absolutely sure(triangle in this case). Immediately in fact. If you watch that very last step before the stop and throw, his left leg extends to where the base would be if he was in the correct spot, because there'd be no other reason for that extra step (I dont think he had that much momentum) I've seen this same animation triggered properly in this situation so I'm sure it is indeed the step on bag motion. I felt that this occurred because he was too close to the bag to make a lob, with Hairston the SS coming to a stop at 2nd and not able to make a catch animation, so the AI attempted to make Emaus take the out himself. Not a bad play or animation, but just a bit out of position to happen, a glitch perhaps.

I can't say what is going on with the throw input from the video, but I can tell you that the second baseman did not use a "step on base" animation. That was just the end of the catch animation. He hit the "throw ready" branch and threw to 1B. I would guess one of three things happened:

1) Throw input (to 2B) was not registered for some reason
2) Throw input (to 2B) was cleared for some reason
3) Some sort of error in giving the throw input

Sorry, I can't be more helpful, but this one is pretty hard to diagnose from video alone.

[Woodweaver]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

From what I know about the system woody, I think the trimming of the animations that lead to throw ready would be a monumental change for the entire system.

While I don't know the number of animations you'd have to address (and it scares me to think about it) I do know that some of the fielding anim's take too many steps to get "set" and that's the root of this entire discussion.

Perhaps the speed of how quickly they play out can be addressed as well. I know I personally had a play last night where the catcher got out from his squat to field a bunt bare-handed and throw. The only problem is there was no "urgency" on this play so I can see how someone blames animations.

Yeah, the catcher/batter interaction on these types of plays opens up a whole other can of worms too.

[Galvatron]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

I can't say what is going on with the throw input from the video, but I can tell you that the second baseman did not use a "step on base" animation. That was just the end of the catch animation. He hit the "throw ready" branch and threw to 1B. I would guess one of three things happened:

1) Throw input (to 2B) was not registered for some reason
2) Throw input (to 2B) was cleared for some reason
3) Some sort of error in giving the throw input

Sorry, I can't be more helpful, but this one is pretty hard to disgnose from video alone.

Thanks anyway for the input. As soon as the play developed I immediately figured it was possibly #1, but after capturing the replay I then determined the wrong animation had occurred, at least it looked that way. Now that you've clarified it for me my speculation has to be #1 or #2, because I most definitely hit that triangle button, it's just too routine for me not to. (controller is also new so that's not a issue) Anyway thanks.

[treyraq]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

The short answer to your question is "yes" possibly at some point. There are many technological, resource, and temporal limitations that developers face that you are just not aware which make implementation of ideas (even great ones) not viable at any given moment. Trust me, ideas like this one and many, many others are considered every year. As developers, we must weigh the benefits and limitations and prioritize. But, that means there is always room for improvement!

It's always good to hear suggestions, but keep in mind that just because things seem simple in concept does not always make them easy or practical to implement.

I appreciate your response as well as Russel's.

I'll be the first to say that I don't think any of what I or other supporters suggest seems easy or viable at any given moment. I realize that major changes in a platform might take an entire console generation. We are very privileged to have the ability to communicate with you guys even though 75% of it might come across as whining or criticism.
And as we represent the voice of your fanbase, you are privileged as well.

I'm also aware the tone of comments can and very often slip beyond pleasant.
Hopefully you guys as artists and creators don't let it get to you, for the most part, and take it as inspiration.

Personally, I wouldn't be commenting if I didn't simply want to see the best available game of my favorite sport become even better and more enjoyable.

[Bobhead]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

A little late, but I turn 3rd-to-1st double plays almost regularly (because I feel getting the lead runner is always more important than possibly getting 2 outs somewhere else, but that's another story), so I can assure you that they are definitely possible. You can argue that it's because I'm not using default sliders (because I know someone is going to say this), but the ones I use give the baserunners an advantage in speed, so I'd actually be making them easier to turn if I used all-default sliders.

Maybe I'm alone here, but in my mind, at the end of the day, balance is all that really matters in a sports game. It's not so much that I'm excessively irritated by the weird and inappropriate animations, it is more that I'm excessively irritated because the AI is programmed to always throw at exactly the perfect time, always trigger the appropriate branch animation, never overrun bases or balls, etc.., so that all these "mini-issues" end up just compiling into something that simply gives the AI an uncompensated advantage .

To occasionally "force" the AI to commit these sorts of execution "errors," the ones that are currently exclusive to us mere humans, would make this issue a lot less disruptive and frustrating, certainly to the point where I wouldn't really mind at all. Perhaps I'm the only one who feels this way, but that is my 2 cents.

[jd369]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

A little late, but I turn 3rd-to-1st double plays almost regularly (because I feel getting the lead runner is always more important than possibly getting 2 outs somewhere else, but that's another story), so I can assure you that they are definitely possible. You can argue that it's because I'm not using default sliders (because I know someone is going to say this), but the ones I use give the baserunners an advantage in speed, so I'd actually be making them easier to turn if I used all-default sliders.

Anyway if I had to pick one thing to complain about amid all the fielding animations and branching and all of this stuff, it would be that the CPU never makes these sorts of "mistakes." At the end of the day, balance is all that really matters.

Yes better animations are always appreciated bla bla bla, but if future games simply had something that caused the AI to "forget" to pre-load a throw, or to overrun a bag, and all this other stuff that human users are bound to encounter, it would make the game 200% better, and make this issue a lot less of an issue.

Please post a video. I want to see what kind of 5-3 DP you are turning. I think I have turned one ever, but it wasnt a fundamental one like you will see on television. I would love to see the videos of the animations so I can possibly try and trigger these.

[thaSLAB]

Yes, some of those catch animations take a "while" to reach the "throw ready" or "set" branch. Currently, the way I handle a situation in which a "long" catch animations is being used and I have missed the "standard" branch is to hit the left analog stick toward my target and as soon as I start moving, try to throw again. This tactic results in an "on the run" throw, but it is only beneficial when you are stuck in a "really long" catch. Alternately, I will suck it up and do one of three things:

1) Hope for the best for the throw from the set position
2) Cancel the throw all together
3) Redirect to a new target if it makes situational sense

I do like the idea of including some sort of bobbling animation to indicate missing the branch though. Hmmm, on the list...

Yeah this is what I was trying to explain earlier Woodweaver... if I see a guy going into a long animation, I use the left stick to "shake him out of it", so to speak.

A bobble animation would definitely be a great indicator animation too.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[spit_bubble]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

...Example, last game I hit a chopper up the middle with Johnny Damon... The CPU controlled SS just gets to it before it goes through... I think it's gonna be a close play... But the SS takes an extra little hop before he throws and Damon beats the play...

Let me try to explain it a little better since I didn't save the replay...

Got a video this time... Of almost the exact same play. Again, this is the CPU fielding here. If this has been covered already, please excuse... I haven't read through the whole thread.

<embed src="http://img8.imageshack.us/flvplayer.swf?f=Mjvu" width="640" height="380" allowFullScreen="true" wmode="transparent" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"/>

Really, it just looks like he's going into the "routine play" animation at the end there... With that little extra hop that allows the runner to beat the play. It's this "routine play" animation that I see the most misplaced, at times where it should be more of a "gotta get rid of the ball quick if I want to throw out the runner" animation.

When using the throw meter I seemed to trigger a lot of these misplaced animations. Yeah you could say user error, but really there wasn't a lot of room for error when using the throw meter, so turning it off has made fielding much less of a pain.

[jd369]

Re: Slow/incorrect animations...

anyone have the video of the 5-3 or 3-6 tag DP? I tried to pull one off in practice and it wouldnt even let em run to the bag using the button. must be an in game only option.