Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

[Bobhead]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

Perhaps we can ask for a larger range of some sliders.

Can you list which ones you want to see a broader range(if changed....it will still be the same bar...with broader space between the low and high points)

I'm not promising anything, but we can ask...that's what these threads are about!

M.K.
Knight165

Personally, there weren't really any sliders I found to not provide enough range. I think this can be answered pretty definitively by looking at slider sets. How many of them feature a 0 or 10 setting for anything? Looking at the most popular and common sets, not many. If one does not set the slider to 0 or 10, that shows there's no demand to exceed the maximums or minimums already in place. Even personally, there were only a small handful of sliders I ever really put on 0 or 10:

- Timing: I felt like 10 wasn't a big enough window in 2012. However, it's been definitively stated that the timing window is already being expanded for 2013, so this one is a moot point

- Fielder Speed: And this one I'm not even sure I needed it on. Some days, 0 wasn't slow enough, but other times I found myself hanging around 1 or 2. Knight and Nem would have to confirm, but Russell had a post a few weeks ago that I interpreted to mean that fielders will not retrieve balls as quickly this year, so it would seem this one is unnecessary also.

And that's it.

I would never ever argue against an option being implemented, since they are merely optional. If someone else wants expanded sliders that's definitely cool with me. However, with such a wide array of difficulty levels, on top of the slider range we already have, I frankly can't fathom how someone would be unable to tune the covered sliders to their liking.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

Perhaps we can ask for a larger range of some sliders.

Can you list which ones you want to see a broader range(if changed....it will still be the same bar...with broader space between the low and high points)

I'm not promising anything, but we can ask...that's what these threads are about!

M.K.
Knight165

Pitch speed and pitch control are two sliders I would like to see have more impact. I would also like a cpu plate discipline slider so we could fine-tune how often they chase pitches out of the zone. With no new sliders I am out of luck in that department. I didn't think that was much of an issue on fastballs last year but I did think it was an issue on the breaking stuff. I think breaking pitches overall need to be a little more risk/reward. You shouldn't have great command on them but the cpu should also chase a little more (and crush a hanging one over the heart of the plate).

[seanjeezy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

I don't know, I feel like the CPU will chase a realistic amount of pitches out of the zone with just a few tweaks... I dropped CPU contact by 2, timing by 1, and foul frequency by 1 and the results have been a realistic number of chases, not to mention the CPU takes quite a few strikes as well... And this is on legend difficulty. I'd say the bulk of my strikeouts come via the CPU chasing balls out of the zone.

My stance on pitch speed is as long as SCEA continues to give the option for pitch speed to mirror real life then I don't mind them broadening the range of the slider, just don't universally lower pitch speed please...

[nomo17k]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

Pitch speed and pitch control are two sliders I would like to see have more impact. I would also like a cpu plate discipline slider so we could fine-tune how often they chase pitches out of the zone. With no new sliders I am out of luck in that department. I didn't think that was much of an issue on fastballs last year but I did think it was an issue on the breaking stuff. I think breaking pitches overall need to be a little more risk/reward. You shouldn't have great command on them but the cpu should also chase a little more (and crush a hanging one over the heart of the plate).

Pitch control slider having the effect on making the pitcher command better or worse? I assume the latter...?

I'm also interested in having the option to tweak CPU plate discipline, since this is still a topic frequently discussed by people here... CPU not chasing enough pitches (though the overall number for Swing % I can confirm is very solid the last couple years... I think this has been improving every year... if CPU were to chase more pitches outside the strike zone, it needs to be compensated by CPU swinging less on pitches that are strikes to maintain the overall balance). One way to make CPU chase more is to pitch at a lower difficulty level though...

Bobhead raises a good point about the (no) need for expanding the effect... which I agree if the dev team really is very, very committed to presenting the game as simulation-style only game (which I prefer). But rudyjuly has a point as well.

I tend to think Pitch Speed slider is an entirely different category of slider than the rest. Personally, I think it has the most dominant effect on your success as a hitter. And from a simulation standpoint, the dev team is absolutely correct that pitch speed should not be lowered to the point where the gamer can have an unrealistically good plate discipline.... after all what makes hitting one of the most difficult action in all sports is that the pitch comes in very fast. But of course people have different reaction times and the optimal timing windows are different.

I'm curious if the dev team actually collects any data from games played by users to decide how much lower the game should go...

[nomo17k]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

I don't know, I feel like the CPU will chase a realistic amount of pitches out of the zone with just a few tweaks... I dropped CPU contact by 2, timing by 1, and foul frequency by 1 and the results have been a realistic number of chases, not to mention the CPU takes quite a few strikes as well... And this is on legend difficulty. I'd say the bulk of my strikeouts come via the CPU chasing balls out of the zone.

My stance on pitch speed is as long as SCEA continues to give the option for pitch speed to mirror real life then I don't mind them broadening the range of the slider, just don't universally lower pitch speed please...

Did you actually check the numbers (like O-Swing % and stuff)?

What I think I notice about chasing is that it depends on the pitch type....

I find fastball/changeup combo to give me the most realistic experience as far as fooling CPU hitters. I find CPU chases fastball and change-up quite realistically.

But the feeling is different with curveball and some other pitches... especially the ones have vertical movement. When I create a pitcher who goes primarily with fastball/splitter combo, he is not capable fooling batters as much as the guy with fastball/changeup combo. So is with guys with curveball. IRL you can occasionally literally bounce those pitches to make hitters chase, resulting in dropped third-strikes, but I don't see them nearly as often in the game.

[seanjeezy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

Did you actually check the numbers (like O-Swing % and stuff)?

What I think I notice about chasing is that it depends on the pitch type....

I find fastball/changeup combo to give me the most realistic experience as far as fooling CPU hitters. I find CPU chases fastball and change-up quite realistically.

But the feeling is different with curveball and some other pitches... especially the ones have vertical movement. When I create a pitcher who goes primarily with fastball/splitter combo, he is not capable fooling batters as much as the guy with fastball/changeup combo. So is with guys with curveball. IRL you can occasionally literally bounce those pitches to make hitters chase, resulting in dropped third-strikes, but I don't see them nearly as often in the game.

I was talking about breaking pitches... If I'm using a pitcher whose primary off speed pitch is a slider or a curve, gg CPU lol.

The splitter is by far the hardest pitch to induce whiffs with (when it should be the opposite) but its not impossible. It's all about the method, and sequencing is second nature to me (being someone who pitched in college), but I'm pretty sure that I'm in the minority and therefore my results are in the minority... It's just like the max pitch speed thing, having actually faced pitchers who could throw 90+ mph, I consider max pitch speed and a small timing window (yes, I lower that too) to be normal...


All this talk has me itching to play a game, more to follow lol

Edit:

Well I just had a pretty crappy game with Felix Hernandez, but I'll post the pitch analysis anyway...

6 IP, 4 K, 111 pitches, 63% strikes - 31 4SB, 17 SNK, 18 CIR, 24 SL, 21 SCV

Of the 18 outs recorded, 12 were by breaking balls (5 sliders and 7 curves)

50 swings out of 111 pitches is a 45% swing %, his 2012 average was 47.4%

12 whiffs out of 111 pitches is a 10.8% swStr, his 2012 average was 10.6%

12 whiffs out of 50 swings is a 24% whiff rate, his 2012 average was 22.6%

15 pitches chased out of 50 swings is a 30% O-Swing %, his 2012 average was 34.1%

Of the 15 pitches chased, 7 were curves and 1 was a slider

3 of the 4 strikeouts came on breaking balls (2 curves, 1 slider)


Obviously this is only a one game sample, but the numbers line up pretty well. It would be cool to see plate discipline tracked over the course of a season, I'd like to see how the numbers line up...

[nemesis04]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

Personally, there weren't really any sliders I found to not provide enough range. I think this can be answered pretty definitively by looking at slider sets. How many of them feature a 0 or 10 setting for anything? Looking at the most popular and common sets, not many. If one does not set the slider to 0 or 10, that shows there's no demand to exceed the maximums or minimums already in place. Even personally, there were only a small handful of sliders I ever really put on 0 or 10:

One thing that needs to be mentioned in regards to sliders is a lot of times the default or starting point value changes from version to version. So a particular slider for example could have a default value which is +2 or -2 higher or lower then the previous version. These adjustments are based off of feedback and testing. I think that is one reason why you do not see a lot of slider sets at the extremes because they are constantly being re calibrated from year to year. I do agree that the range needs to be extended on certain ones and some need to be added.

[Bobhead]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

Yeah I'm not really in favor of expanding the sliders we already have, but I'm all for adding new sliders altogether, especially a plate discipline slider.

And I've actually tracked the O-swing percentages and stuff. Even with a reduced contact slider the CPU has trouble chasing and/or missing a realistic number of pitches.

And I agree about Pitch Speed. In my mind, I don't even group that with the sliders - it doesn't affect the balance of gameplay mechanics. It's more like a preference or difficulty option, and I can definitely see the merit in expanding the range.

[nemesis04]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

And I agree about Pitch Speed. In my mind, I don't even group that with the sliders - it doesn't affect the balance of gameplay mechanics. It's more like a preference or difficulty option, and I can definitely see the merit in expanding the range.

Actually it can affect game-play, that is why there is a counter balance system in place to make sure jumps off the bag and stealing do not get out of whack.

[tnixen]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

For manual fielding was charging a ball and throwing from the outfield improved any? It could just be me of course but a lot of times when I try and charge a ball with an outfielder he just fields it on one hop instead of charging and throwing on the run.

Its like the outfielder gets stuck in a animation and will not let me charge the ball.

[decga]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

To be honest I never have paid attention to him. I usually send runners based on what is happening in the field. I guess my question is are his hand motions really relevant to what is occurring on the field?

@ Nem: Yes and no. I know we the diamond to look at when the ball is hit to the outfield. We do know the speed of our runners that are on base.

Example: Playing at the Marlins new ballpark. Bonafacio is playing CF. Brian McCann on 1st. Freeman hits a 2B to gap between CF & RF. Just by watching ball and the CF doesn't have a strong arm. I send McCann home, but the 3B coach throws up the stop sign. I get gunned down at the plate, by the relay man. Which I should've known better.

[nomo17k]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

I was talking about breaking pitches... If I'm using a pitcher whose primary off speed pitch is a slider or a curve, gg CPU lol.

The splitter is by far the hardest pitch to induce whiffs with (when it should be the opposite) but its not impossible. It's all about the method, and sequencing is second nature to me (being someone who pitched in college), but I'm pretty sure that I'm in the minority and therefore my results are in the minority... It's just like the max pitch speed thing, having actually faced pitchers who could throw 90+ mph, I consider max pitch speed and a small timing window (yes, I lower that too) to be normal...


All this talk has me itching to play a game, more to follow lol

Edit:

Well I just had a pretty crappy game with Felix Hernandez, but I'll post the pitch analysis anyway...

6 IP, 4 K, 111 pitches, 63% strikes - 31 4SB, 17 SNK, 18 CIR, 24 SL, 21 SCV

Of the 18 outs recorded, 12 were by breaking balls (5 sliders and 7 curves)

50 swings out of 111 pitches is a 45% swing %, his 2012 average was 47.4%

12 whiffs out of 111 pitches is a 10.8% swStr, his 2012 average was 10.6%

12 whiffs out of 50 swings is a 24% whiff rate, his 2012 average was 22.6%

15 pitches chased out of 50 swings is a 30% O-Swing %, his 2012 average was 34.1%

Of the 15 pitches chased, 7 were curves and 1 was a slider

3 of the 4 strikeouts came on breaking balls (2 curves, 1 slider)


Obviously this is only a one game sample, but the numbers line up pretty well. It would be cool to see plate discipline tracked over the course of a season, I'd like to see how the numbers line up...

I actually remembered that we had a similar discussion earlier in the year, with some numbers to consider:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ipline-ai.html

This is a CD feedback thread so I shouldn't make it harder to sort out by continuing the discussion and hijacking the thread, but this is a point worth bringing up in the CD event, so I'll post the link for reference anyways. In short, I found that CPU chase % wasn't in line with the MLB ave., and that's one of few stats that I kept track that was quite off from real life numbers. Kinda stood out since most others are very much in line with real life numbers.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

I actually remembered that we had a similar discussion earlier in the year, with some numbers to consider:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ipline-ai.html

This is a CD feedback thread so I shouldn't make it harder to sort out by continuing the discussion and hijacking the thread, but this is a point worth bringing up in the CD event, so I'll post the link for reference anyways. In short, I found that CPU chase % wasn't in line with the MLB ave., and that's one of few stats that I kept track that was quite off from real life numbers. Kinda stood out since most others are very much in line with real life numbers.

But I think a bigger concern is how the game differentiates what type of balls to chase. It makes using splitters, forkballs, sinkers boring to use in game since you cant use them as intended. I can maybe recall 3 times I got a batter to chase on a splitter in the dirt and it was by accident. Since I don't expect the game to ever chase I was trying to throw it at the bottom of the zone.

I do agree that batters should chase more balls out of the zone in general, but I specifically want to see a drastic increase in balls swung at in the dirt first. That is the one aspect of this conversation that I dislike the most in the current game and would really love to see addressed.

[nuke_21]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

Q: Does Tim Hudson (in the game) throw like Tim Hudson in real life? In MLB 12, all his subtle nuances are accurate, but when it comes time to release the pitch he short-arms it (like alligator arms)

Q: Are outfield throws updated? In MLB 12, when outfielders throw the ball home they kind of girl-arm it. They need to get more body into the throw and have a better follow-through.

Q: Are fielder's reaction times more accurate when fielding the ball?

Q: Do runners always hustle on every grounder? In real life there is no way Players like Pujols or A-Rod are bustin' it down the line on every hit.

Q: Has outfielder run speed been adjusted? It seems like they are running at 100% all the time. (this affects balls hit into the gap and down the lines; taking away extra base hits)

[nomo17k]

Re: Community Day 2013 - Gameplay - Questions/Concerns/Inquiries

But I think a bigger concern is how the game differentiates what type of balls to chase. It makes using splitters, forkballs, sinkers boring to use in game since you cant use them as intended. I can maybe recall 3 times I got a batter to chase on a splitter in the dirt and it was by accident. Since I don't expect the game to ever chase I was trying to throw it at the bottom of the zone.

I do agree that batters should chase more balls out of the zone in general, but I specifically want to see a drastic increase in balls swung at in the dirt first. That is the one aspect of this conversation that I dislike the most in the current game and would really love to see addressed.

This is indeed all similar to my concern as well, so I'll try to look into it.

I enjoy watching/playing Ian Kennedy in the game since he has a decent fastball/(Vulcan) change combo which seems to make him a more effective strikeout pitcher in the game.... But when I create Dwight Gooden circa 1984 or Hideo Nomo circa 1995, I cannot make them as great strikeout artists as they were IRL... Both are essentially two-pitch pitchers, rising fastball and curveball (Gooden) / forkball (Nomo)... but since CPU doesn't chase pitches that drop off the strike zone as often, I have to come in the zone with fastball and/or breaking stuff that often hangs, which CPU often puts in play.