Destined to lose?

[wudl83]

Re: Destined to lose?

I don't care about what you think of me, to me it seems you are one of the biggest stirrers in this thread. I tried to give multiple examples of real life baseball and wanted to tell you all why one should not automatically think of comeback code or destiny when similar things occur ingame. And since you are picking every real example to pieces without a clear reason (well, maybe making trouble) I won't argue with you anymore.
When you are unable to accept that there are strange things ingame and to igorant to get my point, so be it.
When something in real life happens it seems to be okay. But something similar ingame is of course destiny and comeback code. Thank you, I had a good laugh. Blaming others is always easier. I get it. Nuff said.


EDIT:
Live: Pedro Strop in a bases-loaded jam for the Orioles right now with no outs. Maybe comeback code since he wasn't able to find the ball in the air?

EDIT2:
Ah, Aybar with a bases-clearing double and he wanted to stretch it into a triple, the 3B couldn't catch the ball and Aybar is also home. 6-4 LAA after being back 2-4. Destiny, comeback code. Wow. I think Bud Selig is involved.

EDIT3:
Uuuh, Pujols with a 2-run homerun. 8-4 after being back 2-4. I hope it won't happen ingame. Otherwise I would have to say it was caused by comeback code or destiny.

So, this was my last post in this thread. I think everything is said.

[Cavicchi]

Re: Destined to lose?

I never said there is a comeback code in this game.

You have enlightened us beyond your wildest dreams. Now all of us that either posted or looked in this thread know there are base-running mistakes and comebacks in real baseball, whoopee!

[Jordyn]

I don't care about what you think of me, to me it seems you are one of the biggest stirrers in this thread. I tried to give multiple examples of real life baseball and wanted to tell you all why one should not automatically think of comeback code or destiny when similar things occur ingame. And since you are picking every real example to pieces without a clear reason (well, maybe making trouble) I won't argue with you anymore.
When you are unable to accept that there are strange things ingame and to igorant to get my point, so be it.
When something in real life happens it seems to be okay. But something similar ingame is of course destiny and comeback code. Thank you, I had a good laugh. Blaming others is always easier. I get it. Nuff said.


EDIT:
Live: Pedro Strop in a bases-loaded jam for the Orioles right now with no outs. Maybe comeback code since he wasn't able to find the ball in the air?

EDIT2:
Ah, Aybar with a bases-clearing double and he wanted to stretch it into a triple, the 3B couldn't catch the ball and Aybar is also home. 6-4 LAA after being back 2-4. Destiny, comeback code. Wow. I think Bud Selig is involved.

EDIT3:
Uuuh, Pujols with a 2-run homerun. 8-4 after being back 2-4. I hope it won't happen ingame. Otherwise I would have to say it was caused by comeback code or destiny.

So, this was my last post in this thread. I think everything is said.

Now you're being foolish.

1. It doesn't happen every game.
2. It doesn't happen to just the CPU or just the user because the game cannot differentiate between the two.
3. If you really want to compare, then after the Angels took an 8-4 lead, the game probably would've allowed the opposing team to get back in it.
4. Lets agree to disagree because you seem way too closed-minded and set in your ways to even consider some type of malignant code being used. I base my interpretations of experience, not what the developers claim.

[rjackson]

Re: Destined to lose?

Hmm, the wudl vs. Cavicchi debate is a boring read and borderline flame war. 0 pts for you two.

Jordyn was frusted but has shown an open mind. 10 pts for you.

Nomo, your arguments were presented without subjectivity or aggressiveness. Your self-proclaimed nerdiness appears to be the biggest contributor to this thread. Maybe my own nerdiness results in a bias, but I award 100 points!!! Congrats, you have won this thread!

PS I'm nobody so this post matters as much as those points are truly worth.

PPS Nomo for moderator!!!

[nomo17k]

Re: Destined to lose?

Hmm, the wudl vs. Cavicchi debate is a boring read and borderline flame war. 0 pts for you two.

Jordyn was frusted but has shown an open mind. 10 pts for you.

Nomo, your arguments were presented without subjectivity or aggressiveness. Your self-proclaimed nerdiness appears to be the biggest contributor to this thread. Maybe my own nerdiness results in a bias, but I award 100 points!!! Congrats, you have won this thread!

PS I'm nobody so this post matters as much as those points are truly worth.

PPS Nomo for moderator!!!

I only chime in on a topic like this because I still hope there's some good feedback come out of it. Most of the time it doesn't, like this thread has turned out.... but it happened a couple times in the past (on pitcher confidence/command system specifically) and I think if the devs notice discussions with substance (which this thread doesn't have), then I think it will improve the game for the better at some point... hopefully.

But that won't happen if we cannot even get the bottom line right!! What can the devs do, if you tell them "hey I don't give a **** about what you say... when CPU wants to get a hit, it will. When I'm up by a couple runs, it will catch up to me (or vice versa), regardless of what you actually coded in the game!!" I don't know what those people want. This is simply ludicrous, if not ludacris.




Some people think the game needs to force situations to happen to imitate real-life counterpart. This is actually false.... if a system is designed well, you don't have to force certain things to happen to "simulate the randomness of real-life event." All you need to do is to create a set of rules for events to happen (which is basically programming is all about), and the "game" will be played out, as if it happens in real life. If it doesn't, that means that set of rules isn't as well thought out as it could be.... which is entirely possible given that no sport game right now is a perfect representation of the real thing.

But by "not forcing situations", the devs have been saying that the set of rules they code in the game does not include a rule like "make XXX happen when one team is down." or "make Player Y not get a hit because his batting average is higher than realistic." That's just not how the game is doing things. That's what the devs are saying by "no situations are forced."


One of the reason why I keep insisting on this is that I quite often do use computers to simulate things for my day job (it's not for games)... so I have a fairly decent understanding of how to incorporate randomness into computer simulations. I had an extreme fortune of discussing some stuff with SCEA programmers in this year's Community Days event and I didn't see them doing anything fishy. In fact, I was very impressed by their authentic approach for coding elements of baseball in this game.

It's such a disservice to dismiss their work by simply saying "the game forces events" (which have been explicitly denied). Any issues with the game, we should be able to put forth better feedback than that crap. And I'm sure they are interested in hearing our legit feedback.


Unfortunately human brain is very good at recognizing patterns, in fact too good to the extent that even if there aren't really any pattern, the brain tends to recognize it as a pattern based on the person's bias in perception. That's just how our brain works... a good example is how sometimes there is a news about a stain which looks like virgin mary on clothes (or something like that).... and all those catholic people (no offense) who think a "miracle" happened end up giving prayers to the supposed re-appearance of virgin mary... that's how their brain work, but, on the other hand, for those who lack backgrounds as catholic or similar, it may remain a regular stain on a pair of dirty pants... you know what I mean??

Basically it's a similar story. *Everyone* can suffer from cherry picking evidence to their favor. But you don't have to do it with the game, when this much info has been revealed by the developers of the game themselves.


(I don't know why, but we haven't seen as many good game system related discussions this year as there had been in the past, have we. Wonder why...)

[THESHAMISASHAME]

Re: Destined to lose?

The developers admitted that the game cannot differentiate between user and CPU, so naturally you're going to see it happening on both sides. This doesn't make it right though. But what really irks me (which is what you guys don't seem to comprehend) is the WAY in which it happens. For example:

- Sac bunts turning into misplayed singles - if you say you've never seen this, you're lying or playing a different game. I see at LEAST one sac bunt turned into a misplayed single every single game.

- The overall success of bunts - this has been mentioned quite a few times on the boards.

- The CPU stringing 5-6 straight hits together - how often does this actually happen in real life? Rallies are usually started by 2-3 hits in an inning, not 6 consecutively (regardless of pitcher).

- Umpire squeezing zone - another thing that has been mentioned countless times on the boards are the inconsistent umpire zones, regardless of whether variable is on or off (I've tried both). What gets me is that their strike zone ALWAYS seems to change when one team is down by a few runs and starts making a comeback.

- Inopportune errors - errors happen, but they seem to happen frequently when one team is down by a few runs.

- Missed routine grounders - how many times have you seen a ground ball hit to a fielder that is misplayed or goes under the glove? Or how about when the grounder is caught but the fielder conveniently takes his time throwing the ball, even when preloading?

I don't mind losing, heck, I WANT to lose to increase the realism. But it's the MANNER in which I'm losing that really ruins the atmosphere of this game for me. I want the CPU to hit mistake pitches. In the game I was describing previously, I made a mistake pitch with Hughes and Swishes crushed it. I wasn't upset at all about that because it was MY fault, I threw a bad pitch. I want to lose because I'm outplayed, NOT because the CPU determined it was time for me to lose and created some boneheaded play. I openly admit that baseball is an unpredictable game and SCEA seems to have depicted that nicely in the game. However, it's what I described above that makes me feel the game needs vast improvements in the way the CPU generates rallies.

I said similar months ago before I sold the game as I really enjoyed 13 but its not about winning or losing as it goes both ways BUT its THE HOW it happens that is really lacking year after year with little true interaction at key moments like I wasnt even playing if that makes sense .
I wouldnt even care if some unseen stat/formula said I must win or lose or my odds of winning were poor as long as it didnt feel forced , cheap or unearned .

[C_Bailey24]

Re: Destined to lose?

I wouldnt even care if some unseen stat/formula said I must win or lose or my odds of winning were poor as long as it didnt feel forced , cheap or unearned .

Yep i feel the same way. Had a game last night literally stolen from me. I'm Yanks vs Tigers. Going into the 8th inning i'm leading 7-1 (so that right there should silence the "obviously your pitching needs improving" crowd because i wouldn't be up by such a margin if i didn't mix speeds, location, etc) and like clockwork the wheels fall off. David Phelps, who pitched 2 scoreless innings after i took out Pettite gives up a 2 run HR. 7-3, no biggie. I bring in the lefty Logan to face Dirks, Peralta (who has a below avg contact rating against LH) and Avila. He gives up 1 more run before a mound visit and groundball get me out of the inning. Bottom of the 9th i bring in Robertson and he proceeds to give up a solo shot to Fielder. I had two strikes on Fielder and aimed my cursor up by his head and whadda ya know the pitch goes right down broadway for a no-doubter. Very convienent. It's 7-5 now and i bring in Mo Rivera. The same Mo Rivera who holds the career lead in saves, has basically all 90's or better for the important pitch ratings, and more or less throws one pitch and gets major league hitters out with it. Yeah him. Guess what? He can't throw a strike to save his life with any of his pitches much less the Cutter that's gonna earn him a Hall of Fame induction. 2 walks and a run scoring single later it's a 7-6 game. Mound visit. 3-2, 2 outs and i run a two-seamer in on Dirks hands and he hits a weak pop up into very shallow left field...Jeter turns to run for it, i guide him to the indicator to make what i think is the game ending catch and NOPE the jokes on me. He does a spin around animation in which he doesn't raise his glove and just stands there and lets the ball hit him in the leg. The ball rolls several feet away from him which allows the tying run to score. I would have recorded the replay but i was so annoyed i shut the game off.

Now some might say it was a tie game why not play it out but that's not the point. The point is i earned that victory and it was stolen in a very cheap way. I made good managerial moves, mound visits, and took my time with my pitching. It was only the 4th game of the franchise so i doubt the ole hot and cold streaks exscuse can apply here. I didn't start off every batter with a fastball low and away, use the same out pitch on two strike counts,i used defensive shifts, don,t use API and whatever else exscuse u wanna give this game. I was robbed and it was disgusting because it felt extremely forced. When u spend and hour or more playing this game and continue to have stuff like this happen it competely kills the fun factor and that's my biggest gripe with this game.

[THESHAMISASHAME]

Re: Destined to lose?

Yep i feel the same way. Had a game last night literally stolen from me. I'm Yanks vs Tigers. Going into the 8th inning i'm leading 7-1 (so that right there should silence the "obviously your pitching needs improving" crowd because i wouldn't be up by such a margin if i didn't mix speeds, location, etc) and like clockwork the wheels fall off. David Phelps, who pitched 2 scoreless innings after i took out Pettite gives up a 2 run HR. 7-3, no biggie. I bring in the lefty Logan to face Dirks, Peralta (who has a below avg contact rating against LH) and Avila. He gives up 1 more run before a mound visit and groundball get me out of the inning. Bottom of the 9th i bring in Robertson and he proceeds to give up a solo shot to Fielder. I had two strikes on Fielder and aimed my cursor up by his head and whadda ya know the pitch goes right down broadway for a no-doubter. Very convienent. It's 7-5 now and i bring in Mo Rivera. The same Mo Rivera who holds the career lead in saves, has basically all 90's or better for the important pitch ratings, and more or less throws one pitch and gets major league hitters out with it. Yeah him. Guess what? He can't throw a strike to save his life with any of his pitches much less the Cutter that's gonna earn him a Hall of Fame induction. 2 walks and a run scoring single later it's a 7-6 game. Mound visit. 3-2, 2 outs and i run a two-seamer in on Dirks hands and he hits a weak pop up into very shallow left field...Jeter turns to run for it, i guide him to the indicator to make what i think is the game ending catch and NOPE the jokes on me. He does a spin around animation in which he doesn't raise his glove and just stands there and lets the ball hit him in the leg. The ball rolls several feet away from him which allows the tying run to score. I would have recorded the replay but i was so annoyed i shut the game off.

Now some might say it was a tie game why not play it out but that's not the point. The point is i earned that victory and it was stolen in a very cheap way. I made good managerial moves, mound visits, and took my time with my pitching. It was only the 4th game of the franchise so i doubt the ole hot and cold streaks exscuse can apply here. I didn't start off every batter with a fastball low and away, use the same out pitch on two strike counts,i used defensive shifts, don,t use API and whatever else exscuse u wanna give this game. I was robbed and it was disgusting because it felt extremely forced. When u spend and hour or more playing this game and continue to have stuff like this happen it competely kills the fun factor and that's my biggest gripe with this game.

Oh I cant stand the pitch location one on 0-2 lol no slider for randomness and I ask this for those who say it all evens out and you get some freebies just as much as you get screwed .
So how about just letting the user be the real intangible again win or lose as a option for those who wanna use it and they could even put a disclaimer not using it could effect sim results ?
PS: Pitcher Confidence with relievers is still to sensitive .

[3fiddy]

Re: Destined to lose?

Pretty much stopped our 3 user franchise 90 games in playing every game. 3 different teams. After playing / watching 200+ games we all knew when it was right and wrong. I have read the thread , played decades of baseball , and now back to watching it again. This is exactly how games fall apart but I think user input should be the majority/ determining factor. See you all next year.

[Jordyn]

Yep i feel the same way. Had a game last night literally stolen from me. I'm Yanks vs Tigers. Going into the 8th inning i'm leading 7-1 (so that right there should silence the "obviously your pitching needs improving" crowd because i wouldn't be up by such a margin if i didn't mix speeds, location, etc) and like clockwork the wheels fall off. David Phelps, who pitched 2 scoreless innings after i took out Pettite gives up a 2 run HR. 7-3, no biggie. I bring in the lefty Logan to face Dirks, Peralta (who has a below avg contact rating against LH) and Avila. He gives up 1 more run before a mound visit and groundball get me out of the inning. Bottom of the 9th i bring in Robertson and he proceeds to give up a solo shot to Fielder. I had two strikes on Fielder and aimed my cursor up by his head and whadda ya know the pitch goes right down broadway for a no-doubter. Very convienent. It's 7-5 now and i bring in Mo Rivera. The same Mo Rivera who holds the career lead in saves, has basically all 90's or better for the important pitch ratings, and more or less throws one pitch and gets major league hitters out with it. Yeah him. Guess what? He can't throw a strike to save his life with any of his pitches much less the Cutter that's gonna earn him a Hall of Fame induction. 2 walks and a run scoring single later it's a 7-6 game. Mound visit. 3-2, 2 outs and i run a two-seamer in on Dirks hands and he hits a weak pop up into very shallow left field...Jeter turns to run for it, i guide him to the indicator to make what i think is the game ending catch and NOPE the jokes on me. He does a spin around animation in which he doesn't raise his glove and just stands there and lets the ball hit him in the leg. The ball rolls several feet away from him which allows the tying run to score. I would have recorded the replay but i was so annoyed i shut the game off.

Now some might say it was a tie game why not play it out but that's not the point. The point is i earned that victory and it was stolen in a very cheap way. I made good managerial moves, mound visits, and took my time with my pitching. It was only the 4th game of the franchise so i doubt the ole hot and cold streaks exscuse can apply here. I didn't start off every batter with a fastball low and away, use the same out pitch on two strike counts,i used defensive shifts, don,t use API and whatever else exscuse u wanna give this game. I was robbed and it was disgusting because it felt extremely forced. When u spend and hour or more playing this game and continue to have stuff like this happen it competely kills the fun factor and that's my biggest gripe with this game.

And this post right here totally represents everything I feel about this year's iteration of the game. It's not the what, it's the how. The developers can say whatever they want, but when more than a slew of respected users notice the exact same thing, one must admit it holds some merit. We're not all imagining it and we're not all making coaching blunders. The facts are the game seems to force things in order to obtain realistic results and that in and of itself is the opposite of realism.

[Bunselpower32]

Re: Destined to lose?

Just played a string of games in franchise mode. I haven't gone back and read a bunch of posts, but it seems I am experiencing the same thing everyone else is. Except for me it isn't really "Destined to Lose", but "Destined to Immediately Tie." It never fails, as soon as I tie it up, the CPU always, always ties it up in the following inning. And some of it is timely hitting/guys being due. I can't complain about guys hitting strikes. But a lot of times it will be a glitchy thing that does it.

And the pitching, I will make beautiful pitches, lots of times they are balls, and the CPU will drive them. Until the game is tied. I have multiple times just for kicks thrown nothing but fastballs down the middle to the guy following the game tying hit. Never has he hit the ball remotely hard. No matter if he's the pitcher or Ryan Braun.

I mean, I'm still winning games, and I like that the CPU is showing life, but lets not make it this obvious. Just now I played a game that all I needed to do was throw to first to get an out to send it to the 12th with men left at 1st and 3rd. The CPU tried a hit and run, I queued up a throw with the catcher, he hits a hard grounder to short, so the SS now has a full throw meter to 2nd. Long before Tulo catches the ball, I canceled the throw and chose 1st base. Except the game didn't. It not only forced me to throw to 2nd, completely overriding its normal programming, but it gave me an animation that was just long enough to keep Tulo from getting the out. Game over, I lose. Its this stuff that I'm getting so sick of. If I want to lose more games, I'll turn up the sliders, which I do on a regular basis as I get better. If I don't want to, then don't force me. I understand that sometimes teams are just hot, and there's nothing the other team can do, but its not as if Tulo's arm stops working. Don't start ignoring normal programming just for the sake of this "realism", because this game is getting less and less real the more I play it.

[Bluejaysfan65]

Re: Destined to lose?

The Mariners just scored six runs against me with two outs in the ninth....

[RangersCruz]

Re: Destined to lose?

Reading some of these i think you guys need to change your difficulty and whatever you're using for pitching

[BoomerHB52]

Re: Destined to lose?

Just played a string of games in franchise mode. I haven't gone back and read a bunch of posts, but it seems I am experiencing the same thing everyone else is. Except for me it isn't really "Destined to Lose", but "Destined to Immediately Tie." It never fails, as soon as I tie it up, the CPU always, always ties it up in the following inning. And some of it is timely hitting/guys being due. I can't complain about guys hitting strikes. But a lot of times it will be a glitchy thing that does it.

And the pitching, I will make beautiful pitches, lots of times they are balls, and the CPU will drive them. Until the game is tied. I have multiple times just for kicks thrown nothing but fastballs down the middle to the guy following the game tying hit. Never has he hit the ball remotely hard. No matter if he's the pitcher or Ryan Braun.

I mean, I'm still winning games, and I like that the CPU is showing life, but lets not make it this obvious. Just now I played a game that all I needed to do was throw to first to get an out to send it to the 12th with men left at 1st and 3rd. The CPU tried a hit and run, I queued up a throw with the catcher, he hits a hard grounder to short, so the SS now has a full throw meter to 2nd. Long before Tulo catches the ball, I canceled the throw and chose 1st base. Except the game didn't. It not only forced me to throw to 2nd, completely overriding its normal programming, but it gave me an animation that was just long enough to keep Tulo from getting the out. Game over, I lose. Its this stuff that I'm getting so sick of. If I want to lose more games, I'll turn up the sliders, which I do on a regular basis as I get better. If I don't want to, then don't force me. I understand that sometimes teams are just hot, and there's nothing the other team can do, but its not as if Tulo's arm stops working. Don't start ignoring normal programming just for the sake of this "realism", because this game is getting less and less real the more I play it.

There have been a couple of games I've played where literally, both, the cpu and I score at least a run every inning. For example, they get 2 runs in the top of the first, and I inmediately tie it or go ahead, then in the top of the second they do the same. Tie it or go ahead and then I come and the same. Its a frustrating but cool for me lol

[vinny_pizza]

Just played a games where I felt no matter what I did I was going to lose. Up 2-0 in my Nats franchise, Miami goes on a singles spree and ties it at 2 in the 7th. In the 8th I go up 3-2, top 9 double and a bloop, 3-3. Enter top 10, two singles and a double, I'm down now 4-3 thinking son of a blown game. Granderson weakly grounds to second, but the wait a minute, a double off the cf wall by moss and we have life. Next batter Eric Chavez is down in the count, then bang, fastball crushed to CF onto the grassy hill... Walk off!!! Nats win! A little human comeback code

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