Destined to lose?

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Destined to lose?

? How about those who say " its just the randomness of baseball " and it goes both ways , win some lose some ?

But then I ask why ??? why so much fake or forced looking stuff that just doesnt add up with your mechanics on a swing or pitch ? and no its not comeback code but the mechanics are horrible compared to the outcomes at times like its overriding in sake of sim ( how it looks ) ?
I mean if the AI is randomly skewing possible outcomes both ways why not cut the BS programming and just let the gamer actually play a real role They can still make a exciting game with real sliders and player attributes without all the over programming or at least then just go straight sim off stats ! Jeez I'll take anything to lose that scripted feeling from this game .
Example : See this game isnt a true sim if you actually play the whole game and not sim , just look at all the blown closer saves stats in real life and then in SCEA game and SCEA is way overdone/ coded to be unstable for a reason !
and why ? One word built in Drama but when you play all pitches no sim its just ritualistic , tiresome and unrealistic which becomes boring and equals no fun game after game and if you dont wanna believe me look at the sales and even dwindling interest threads on MLB 13 because after 5 years of basically the same game play with tweaking each year to keep it unbalanced from the last and now some more visuals to make the gameplay seem more believable and thats it .

In closing I remember a SCEA member bragging years ago in a video " we want people when they see our game to think there watching a real baseball game " ! and that in fact is the real problem " WATCHING " when it should be " PLAYING "

lol...I'll give you credit for one thing. You are certainly persistent. Welcome back.

[G3no_11]

Re: Destined to lose?

? How about those who say " its just the randomness of baseball " and it goes both ways , win some lose some ?

But then I ask why ??? why so much fake or forced looking stuff that just doesnt add up with your mechanics on a swing or pitch ? and no its not comeback code but the mechanics are horrible compared to the outcomes at times like its overriding in sake of sim ( how it looks ) ?
I mean if the AI is randomly skewing possible outcomes both ways why not cut the BS programming and just let the gamer actually play a real role They can still make a exciting game with real sliders and player attributes without all the over programming or at least then just go straight sim off stats ! Jeez I'll take anything to lose that scripted feeling from this game .
Example : See this game isnt a true sim if you actually play the whole game and not sim , just look at all the blown closer saves stats in real life and then in SCEA game and SCEA is way overdone/ coded to be unstable for a reason !
and why ? One word built in Drama but when you play all pitches no sim its just ritualistic , tiresome and unrealistic which becomes boring and equals no fun game after game and if you dont wanna believe me look at the sales and even dwindling interest threads on MLB 13 because after 5 years of basically the same game play with tweaking each year to keep it unbalanced from the last and now some more visuals to make the gameplay seem more believable and thats it .

In closing I remember a SCEA member bragging years ago in a video " we want people when they see our game to think there watching a real baseball game " ! and that in fact is the real problem " WATCHING " when it should be " PLAYING "

Someone please tell me.... out of that entire quote, is there any factual statements? or even anything that can be discussed about in a civilized manner?

The only thing about that thread that has any sort of substance is in the last paragraph: "In closing"

As in this thread should be closed because at this point it is totally pointless.

[wudl83]

Re: Destined to lose?

? How about those who say " its just the randomness of baseball " and it goes both ways , win some lose some ?

But then I ask why ??? why so much fake or forced looking stuff that just doesnt add up with your mechanics on a swing or pitch ? and no its not comeback code but the mechanics are horrible compared to the outcomes at times like its overriding in sake of sim ( how it looks ) ?
I mean if the AI is randomly skewing possible outcomes both ways why not cut the BS programming and just let the gamer actually play a real role They can still make a exciting game with real sliders and player attributes without all the over programming or at least then just go straight sim off stats ! Jeez I'll take anything to lose that scripted feeling from this game .
Example : See this game isnt a true sim if you actually play the whole game and not sim , just look at all the blown closer saves stats in real life and then in SCEA game and SCEA is way overdone/ coded to be unstable for a reason !
and why ? One word built in Drama but when you play all pitches no sim its just ritualistic , tiresome and unrealistic which becomes boring and equals no fun game after game and if you dont wanna believe me look at the sales and even dwindling interest threads on MLB 13 because after 5 years of basically the same game play with tweaking each year to keep it unbalanced from the last and now some more visuals to make the gameplay seem more believable and thats it .

In closing I remember a SCEA member bragging years ago in a video " we want people when they see our game to think there watching a real baseball game " ! and that in fact is the real problem " WATCHING " when it should be " PLAYING "

I think you simply have no clue of programming or coding, am I right?

[geisterhome]

Re: Destined to lose?

That because it is cheating...

Also, your *feeling* is worth zero points in the world of is this statistically significant or not?

The Nationals, huh? They have some good pitchers. Any chance you were facing Strasburg, Gio, or Zimm? lol

And about not believing "bad luck of hard hit balls that are line outs"...check out the stat called BABIP. Some players can carry bad/good luck for years, far more than a 10-game sample.

lol man, i dont try to prove anything here. if you would pay a bit more attention youd have realised that i said it before, im really not that much into it to provide any statistical evidence, just here to chat a bit abt what im experiencing nothing more than that. the rest i leave for people like probably you who take things like my post too serious and have too much time and too little life on their hands...

[THESHAMISASHAME]

Re: Destined to lose?

I think you simply have no clue of programming or coding, am I right?

Maybe your correct but the gentleman below me does before someone swayed his opinion

That's why I personally am NOT denying that, at times, there's some "scripted" feeling on how things happen. I want that feeling to go away. In order for the devs to do something about it, however, we somehow need to understand why and where that feeling exactly come from, and not repeating the dead horse about how there is this code that forces situation one way or another.

Nomo why have you forsaken us ?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Destined to lose?

lol man, i dont try to prove anything here. if you would pay a bit more attention youd have realised that i said it before, im really not that much into it to provide any statistical evidence, just here to chat a bit abt what im experiencing nothing more than that. the rest i leave for people like probably you who take things like my post too serious and have too much time and too little life on their hands...

Not gonna touch that other than this is why I think this thread should've been closed days ago.

lol @ bolded part

Maybe your correct but the gentleman below me does before someone swayed his opinion



Nomo why have you forsaken us ?

How many times are you going to quote nomo's post? What's that 5 or 6 times so far?

[wudl83]

Re: Destined to lose?

Maybe your correct but the gentleman below me does before someone swayed his opinion

I only ask because you seem to think that it would be easy for the programmers to get rid of the code that is responsible for what you are pilloring. It comes down to the problem that you need a certain amount of randomness in a game because a game that is controlled by the player by 100% won't produce any kind of reality either. And when randomness (or probability) is coded into a game it is really difficult to code it in a way that there is little to no chance that sometimes (or in the eyes of someone else: too often) the probability will take over.

[AC]

Re: Destined to lose?

Nomo why have you forsaken us ?

I think you need to learn the difference between a 'feeling' and there actually being something there.

[THESHAMISASHAME]

Re: Destined to lose?

I only ask because you seem to think that it would be easy for the programmers to get rid of the code that is responsible for what you are pilloring. It comes down to the problem that you need a certain amount of randomness in a game because a game that is controlled by the player by 100% won't produce any kind of reality either. And when randomness (or probability) is coded into a game it is really difficult to code it in a way that there is little to no chance that sometimes (or in the eyes of someone else: too often) the probability will take over.

I understand the why but how it looks/feels mostly at key times is just so disappointing when you play EVERY pitch and just wonderful games and then as I said before its just so poorly done regardless of who it favors and as Nomo says " Scripted Feeling" it just wrecks the realism and immersion in the game llike I have no input so at that point why play as I might as well just watch or sim it .
Its Kinda like a big budget movie that starts wonderful but then has a cheap unfulfilling ending and MLB The Show is better than that dont you think ? .

That's why I personally am NOT denying that, at times, there's some "scripted" feeling on how things happen. I want that feeling to go away. In order for the devs to do something about it, however, we somehow need to understand why and where that feeling exactly come from, and not repeating the dead horse about how there is this code that forces situation one way or another.

I only keep quoting Nomo because hes 100% correct and I respect his opinion on this game more then anyone and because its exactly how I feel and why he changed his mind or forced to is ludacris .
I also believe you gotta be careful what you post on the internet because there are no do overs and once you post it you should own it , myself included .

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Destined to lose?

I understand the why but how it looks/feels mostly at key times is just so disappointing when you play EVERY pitch and just wonderful games and then as I said before its just so poorly done and as Nomo says " Scripted Feeling" it just wrecks the realism and immersion in the game .
Kinda like a big budget movie that starts wonderful but then ends with a cheap unfulfilling ending .

Almost everyone here plays every pitch. Not really understanding your distinction there. Some also do cpu vs cpu watching, but even they play a ton of games themselves. And even if they were only just watching, what makes you think they'd not see the "forced outcomes?" They'd still see the animations etc...

I only keep quoting Nomo because hes 100% correct and I respect his opinion on this game more then anyone and because its exactly how I feel .
I also believe you gotta be careful what you post on the internet because there are no do overs and once you post you should own it , myself included .

There's really no reason to quote that post over and over and over and over and over and over...........It actually seems a bit more like trolling to me, and probably everyone else actually. Especially when the OP had already repudiated the original statement. In my opinion, the original poster was just trying to see if he could find some common ground with the comeback code people and elevate the discussion, so he started trying to communicate using their "language." Then realized it was a mistake and said as much. I highly doubt that original quote you've quoted 6-7 times now was meant to make him a standard bearer of conspiracy codes in the Show. It's actually quite comical, because he's saying anything but what you think he's saying...

Bold.

Not that anyone really cares, but I'm done with this thread. Gonna do the grown-up thing for a change, lol. Kept seeing this thread pop up to the top and got sick of seeing it, so thought maybe getting it closed would stop that, but it's only backfired as now I'm commenting on a thread that shouldn't exist, or at least not in the form it does, and making this absurd thread more prominent.

To the rational people, I say

To the comeback code people, I say

[wudl83]

Re: Destined to lose?

I understand the why but how it looks/feels mostly at key times is just so disappointing when you play EVERY pitch and just wonderful games and then as I said before its just so poorly done regardless of who it favors and as Nomo says " Scripted Feeling" it just wrecks the realism and immersion in the game llike I have no input so at that point why play as I might as well just watch or sim it .
Its Kinda like a big budget movie that starts wonderful but then ends with a cheap unfulfilling ending and MLB The Show is better than that dont you think ?

To be honest I don't know of any sports game (team games) which doesn't somehow produce this "scripted feeling" or however you wanna call it. Key is mainly how far you let the feeling come to yourself.
There is so much randomness and craziness in any sport in reality that the only chance the programmers have to get it into games is to play around with probabilities and chances. And because those probabilities are what they are (probabilities) they probably will take place or won't take place. And because of those probabilities being probabilities they probably will take place too rarely or too often, always depending on the opinion of the certain player. Because of those probabilities it sometimes may seem to be a forced outcome.
And again, this is out there in every sports game that I know and I know many of them. So if it would be easy to implement then all programmers would be idiots. I know that you aren't saying that but I wanted to state this conclusion nonetheless.
The programmers have to take into account many different things regarding players:
1) Nearly all players want as much realism as possible.
2) Not all players play the game as much as others do.
3) There may be some players that play the occasional game 2-3 times per week and they want reality.
4) There may be some players that play 2-3 games per day and want reality.
5) There are different skill levels involved.
6) Some guys will play poorly and so the game code will have to "help" them to get a little bit of realism because otherwise their poor play won't allow any realism.
7) Some guys will play very good and so the game will have to "force" them into certain situations because otherwise they won't see any randomness at all.
8) There may be guys which have a certain skill level and mastered some aspects of the game but are unaware that their slider set doesn't fit their skill level. Because of that the game will have to "force" them into situations, too.

I think there are flaws that have to be addressed. Maybe then the game wouldn't look so scripted for some guys.

But as I said it all comes down to the player in the end. If you take it too serious you will suffer. In the end it's only a game. I don't think that there are any chances that there will something like a perfect copy of reality in a sports game in the foreseeable future.

[Cavicchi]

Re: Destined to lose?

I only ask because you seem to think that it would be easy for the programmers to get rid of the code that is responsible for what you are pilloring. It comes down to the problem that you need a certain amount of randomness in a game because a game that is controlled by the player by 100% won't produce any kind of reality either. And when randomness (or probability) is coded into a game it is really difficult to code it in a way that there is little to no chance that sometimes (or in the eyes of someone else: too often) the probability will take over.

If they want reality, why must all pitchers have at least 3 pitch types?

[wudl83]

Re: Destined to lose?

If they want reality, why must all pitchers have at least 3 pitch types?

You already got an answer for this question, didn't you? To get away with the 3 pitch types as a general guideline they would have to delete the guess pitch system as a whole or restructure it completely.

You are picking particular minor issues and seem not to see the whole picture. Ratings and things like this have been a major point of criticism in sports games since they were implemented. Reason is a) they can't be based on obvious principles that determine those ratings (e.g. when you base them on statistics from reality you have to consider different ballparks, opponents,... - when some guys produce the same stats it does not mean that they are equally good) and b) they are interfering different parts of the game (e.g. in the Show the guess pitch system or in zhe 2k series the way how the pitches go green/yellow/red). Besides that there are always guys who don't agree to certain ratings and want the numbers to be changed.

EDIT:
This doesn't mean that I don't agree to your opinion, but I see the reasoning behind it. And I don't think that someone giving up 2 HR on an 81 rating or having 3 pitches when he has only 2 in reality is a major issue although it is really not ideal.

[Cavicchi]

Re: Destined to lose?

You already got an answer for this question, didn't you? To get away with the 3 pitch types as a general guideline they would have to delete the guess pitch system as a whole or restructure it completely.

You are picking particular minor issues and seem not to see the whole picture. Ratings and things like this have been a major point of criticism in sports games since they were implemented. Reason is a) they can't be based on obvious principles that determine those ratings (e.g. when you base them on statistics from reality you have to consider different ballparks, opponents,... - when some guys produce the same stats it does not mean that they are equally good) and b) they are interfering different parts of the game (e.g. in the Show the guess pitch system or in 2k series the way how the pitches go green/yellow/red). Besides that there are always guys who don't agree to certain ratings and want to the numbers to be changed.

EDIT:
This doesn't mean that I don't agree to your opinion, but I see the reasoning behind it. And I don't think that someone giving up 2 HR on an 81 rating or having 3 pitches when he has only 2 in reality is a major issue although it is really not ideal.

Regarding Medlen, he gives up home runs in every game! I mentioned 2 in one game but that's just a tiny piece of the puzzle.

So the "fact" guess pitch is why they don't adhere to reality tells me their main concern is not realism.

[bp4baseball]

Re: Destined to lose?

Regarding Medlen, he gives up home runs in every game! I mentioned 2 in one game but that's just a tiny piece of the puzzle.

So the "fact" guess pitch is why they don't adhere to reality tells me their main concern is not realism.

They concern themselves with a balance between realism and accessibility. If they made it as hard as real life, few people would be able to bat above .100. Would that be fun?