Full Minors Roster for '09

[Knight165]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

Hey Knight are you releasing the Dodgers this AM or will it be later 2nite? I was going to do a few test runs to get use to the offseason and will hold off until later if you are almost finished with them. Thanks man

Definitely later....I gotta leave for work soon.
Sorry.

M.K.
Knight165

[nmycon]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

the only problem is i dont think the AI really "knows" how the pitch moves...

it will throw a slider in a slider count, changeup in a changeup count, fastball when down in the count, therefore it may throw a sinker (which is supposed to recreate a sinking fastball's movement as you put it) but it behaves like a sinking fastball and stuff like that

so basically the CPU thinks it throwing the right thing but its not

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

Which ones did you download....?
I know those guys are on there and Keppinger has been moved.

As for the pitches...I'll let Razr & Co. expand on it.....but we are trying to get the pitchers in the game to be more representative of the way their pitches actually move in real life.
Don't get hung up on the name of the pitch.
Think of it like this....if I give you an orange...call it an orange...but it's really an apple....is that really what makes you happy? If I renamed the pitches to 4 Seamer...would that work for you?!
But that being said...I don't do the research on the pitchers....so I hope Razr comes in and elaborates.

Thanks..

M.K.
Knight165

Well here's what we did. We used www.60ft6in.com and Lindy's baseball preview magazine along with other sources to determine pitch types. The thing is with the whole fastball thing is that most pitchers in the majors have movement on their fastballs. Problem is that in the show 4 seam fastballs don't move at all so it is unrealistic for most pitchers to have them. So we did away with most 4 seamers unless the pitchers fastball was actually straight. For pitches like sliders depending on the downward break that they had we made them slurves. For curveballs we made them 12-6, Sweeping, or regular curveballs based on break. Everything is based on break on this set. If you see in a pitcher interview where a pitcher says he throws a slider but it breaks like a curveball no matter what that guy says he's getting a sweeping curve or slurve because that's what the break implies.

[Knight165]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

the only problem is i dont think the AI really "knows" how the pitch moves...

it will throw a slider in a slider count, changeup in a changeup count, fastball when down in the count, therefore it may throw a sinker (which is supposed to recreate a sinking fastball's movement as you put it) but it behaves like a sinking fastball and stuff like that

so basically the CPU thinks it throwing the right thing but its not

I'm not sure what you mean here.
We don't actually alter anything about the pitches...The CPU thinks it's throwing something...and it is.
The CPU doesn't know that a certain pitcher has a certain pitch.
I'm sorry, I'm just a little confused at what you are trying to say.

M.K.
Knight165

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

Just wondering, where did you find your scouting reports for players? Because I was looking at some of the changes you made on the pitches guys throw, and some of them don’t seem to be right. I’ll just use the Mets since I’m a Met fan. The biggest think you seemed to do is take anyone with a sinking fastball and simply make it a sinker, which I understand, but it stops these guys from ever pitching high, and some of them do so. So I as hoping you could tell me where you got them from so I can fix these guys. For example:

Pelfrey – You took away his straight fastball and made it a sinker, giving him nothing to throw high, he does have a straight fastball in his repertoire, his fastball really only sinks when he throws it low
Ollie – Scrapped his 4 seamer leaving only a 2 seamer (I think he does throw a 4 as well)
Livan – Got rid of his 4 seamer (he does throw one in addition to the sinker), made his 12-6 a plain curve (the 12-6 is more accurate IMHO), replaced his slider with a slurve (I actually like that), if you do want to take away his 4 seamer, you should at least add the ephus
Niese – Made his 12-6 a plain curve (not sure about that, I think the 12-6 is a bit better), made his runner and 2 seamer a 4 seamer and a cutter (don’t really understand that, he does have a pitch that tails away from him, whether it’s a 2 seamer or a runner), made his split a change (good move, better represents the velocity)
Redding – Made his 12-6 a curve and his slurve a slider (not sure I agree with either of those)
Figueroa – Change his fastball from 4 seams to 2 (not quite sure about that, I’ve seen it tail, cut, and go straight, so I’m not really sure what he should have, maybe a 4 and a 2?)
Parnell – Didn’t add his new splitter (understandably), scrapped his 4 seamer (don’t understand that at all, he does throw one, or at least he throws a straight fastball)
Stokes – Gave him a knuckler (I’ve never seen him throw that, I have seen him throw curves, which you took away)
Rodriguez – Scrapped his 2, not sure I understand that, and you made his slider a cutter when in reality it IS an extremely fast slider, not a cutter
Kunz, Green, Feliciano – Took away their fastballs leaving them sinkers, only one who I MIGHT understand that with is Green

I have noticed this as well with my Blue Jays pitchers... I know for a fact that Roy Halladay had his pitches messed with and to be honest they are COMPLETELY wrong... I think who ever was editing the pitchers pitches went a little overboard with the sinker pitch..

If you check out Halladay's pitches in your roster his "Go To" pitch is a sinker??? That couldn't be further from his actual pitch. His pitches should be as followed...

#1 - Four-Seam fastball which he can throw in the mid 90s.
#2 - Two-Seam (sinking) fastball which he throws at 92-94 MPH.
#3 - Curveball which he throws around 77 MPH.
#4 - Cutter which he throws at 90-92 MPH.
#5 - Change-Up which he throws at around 77-80 MPH.

Now I hope this didn't come accross as bashing your rosters or whoever edited the pitchers, because I still like your set a lot! I just got a little annoyed when I had to quit my game because I seen a sinker in Roy's arsenal, then realised I'd have to edit all his pitches back to a more accurate representation... Also this is not the only Jays pitcher who has this problem...

LOL, unfortunately it seems there's a lot of this going around. I think the main problem is these websites that are being used are not all on the same page with respect to posting a particular pitcher's repertoire. Some say split, some say fork. Some say sinker, some say 2-seam. I spent a while fixing the Red Sox. I mean to not give Daisuke a 4-seam or a 2-seam is ridiculous. I know he uses a lot of pitches, but to use a cutter over a 4-seam or 2-seam is beyond me. Okajima throws a forkball and not a spit, it's what they call his "Okie Dokie." Lester threw a "one-seam" quite a bit last year, which is essentially a 2-seam with one finger. Ultimately that pitch has sink, so Lester really needs a 2-seam in his repertoire. And I'm still unsure what the "Running FB" does. If someone could explain that it would be great. I assumed that it was a pitch only thrown up the zone. Josh Beckett also throws a circle change and not just a regular change. Now I do agree with some, but not all. I know some of u are gonna laugh at this suggestion but Wikipedia actually does a pretty great job with pitches and speed. They also explain a lot of times where a player learned the particular pitch and so on. Give it a try you'd be surprised how spot on a lot of it is. Later

I have noticed the same thing with pitchers in the Reds organization...not a single pitcher in the rotation throws a 4-seamer...I think Micah Owings pitchers, along with Cueto are right on...however Aaron Harang, Arroyo, and Volquez have been messed up a little...(using Lindy's baseball preview mag as a reference, plus watching the pitchers myself)

It would help a lot if you guys actually brought this up when I was asking about it. I might do some of these. I'll have to look into them.

the only problem is i dont think the AI really "knows" how the pitch moves...

it will throw a slider in a slider count, changeup in a changeup count, fastball when down in the count, therefore it may throw a sinker (which is supposed to recreate a sinking fastball's movement as you put it) but it behaves like a sinking fastball and stuff like that

so basically the CPU thinks it throwing the right thing but its not

I really don't get what your saying. If you could expand on it that would be great.

[GoBucs09]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

Well here's what we did. We used www.60ft6in.com and Lindy's baseball preview magazine along with other sources to determine pitch types. The thing is with the whole fastball thing is that most pitchers in the majors have movement on their fastballs. Problem is that in the show 4 seam fastballs don't move at all so it is unrealistic for most pitchers to have them. So we did away with most 4 seamers unless the pitchers fastball was actually straight. For pitches like sliders depending on the downward break that they had we made them slurves. For curveballs we made them 12-6, Sweeping, or regular curveballs based on break. Everything is based on break on this set. If you see in a pitcher interview where a pitcher says he throws a slider but it breaks like a curveball no matter what that guy says he's getting a sweeping curve or slurve because that's what the break implies.

Sounds like this should make hitting (even) more challenging.

[Whitesox]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

the only problem is i dont think the AI really "knows" how the pitch moves...

it will throw a slider in a slider count, changeup in a changeup count, fastball when down in the count, therefore it may throw a sinker (which is supposed to recreate a sinking fastball's movement as you put it) but it behaves like a sinking fastball and stuff like that

so basically the CPU thinks it throwing the right thing but its not

I think what he means is that it will mess up the pitching logic. For example if someone throws a fastball in real life that has movement, and you make it a sinker in game it might be treated differently by the A.I. than a fastball would.

I think that's what he is saying, but he is the only one that knows for sure.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

I think what he means is that it will mess up the pitching logic. For example if someone throws a fastball in real life that has movement, and you make it a sinker in game it might be treated differently by the A.I. than a fastball would.

I think that's what he is saying, but he is the only one that knows for sure.

Oh I see. Yes a sinker would mean that the guy is more inclined to throw low. But the CPU has put some sinkers high on me and it was stil lhard to hit. I can throw sinkers high too and they will be hard to hit.

Sounds like this should make hitting (even) more challenging.

That's one of the goals.

[DubTrey1]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

Well here's what we did. We used www.60ft6in.com and Lindy's baseball preview magazine along with other sources to determine pitch types. The thing is with the whole fastball thing is that most pitchers in the majors have movement on their fastballs. Problem is that in the show 4 seam fastballs don't move at all so it is unrealistic for most pitchers to have them. So we did away with most 4 seamers unless the pitchers fastball was actually straight. For pitches like sliders depending on the downward break that they had we made them slurves. For curveballs we made them 12-6, Sweeping, or regular curveballs based on break. Everything is based on break on this set. If you see in a pitcher interview where a pitcher says he throws a slider but it breaks like a curveball no matter what that guy says he's getting a sweeping curve or slurve because that's what the break implies.

I think this is the correct approach Razr. Most MLB guys have some sort of break on all of their fastball - etc. So I would say what you are doing is right on...

[Oilersfan94]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

It would help a lot if you guys actually brought this up when I was asking about it. I might do some of these. I'll have to look into them.




I really don't get what your saying. If you could expand on it that would be great.

Just to give my 2 cents on Halladay, as another Jays fan I see him quite a bit. And honestly, he doesn't throw a 4 seam fastball often at all. Thats how he's so good at getting guys out, everything he throws has movement. If they had the 4-seam movement rating actually work I would say to throw it in there as well just to have another breaking fastball, but with that attribute having no effect I think these guys did a good job trying to resemble the real life movement of pitches.

Plus, its not hard to just re-edit a guy yourself after the release if the name/movement of the pitch is bothering you.

[markpmitch]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

I believe your answer is yes. If I remember/read correctly. Knight and Co. will release a set where they don't touch any attributes or pitch types. Whatever SCEA gave them that is what they will have.

thanks... i hope that's the case because hitting is already challenging enough for me... I just lost 1-0 in 19 innings. I'm def looking forward to the rosters, but I don't need anymore batting hurdles... ugh

[Whitesox]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

I think this is the correct approach Razr. Most MLB guys have some sort of break on all of their fastball - etc. So I would say what you are doing is right on...

I agree, I love what you are doing with the pitch edits. Its great to see that you are taking the break into account. Great job

[callmetaternuts]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

Im fine with the pitch edits as long as they mirror the real life repetoire of the pitcher. I dont care what a pitch is called, but i want it to act like it does for real (which has been done).

Like Knight said, I dont care what they call it, they can call it a change up, screwball, forkball, but if it moves like a cutter, i want it to move like a cutter in the game

[RAZRr1275]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

Okay I'm going to try to go through most of the things that you guys suggested and let you know why it made it in or missed the cut.


Pelfrey - I'm actually changing that today. It was on my list of changes.

Ollie - I would do it but there isn't any room. I gave him some funky stuff for my next one. He should be pretty confusing to face. If his control is on.

Livan - Gave him a 12-6. Sinker stays with no 4 seam because he doesn't throw one. I've never seen him throw a fastball that had less than 6-7 inches of break.

Niese - Gave him his runner back and a 12-6. Cutter stays.

Redding - Looked at some game footage and he gets the slurve back. I'll give him the 12-6 too

Figueroa - I'll give him either a running fastball or a cutter so that he'll have more different types of movement

Parnell - Has movement on his fastball so 2 seamer stays

Stokes - Knuckle Curve stays

Rodriguez -No idea who your talking about. K-Rod doesn't have anything close to what you just said he did in the roster

Feliciano and Green - Huge break on their fastballs. No way it stays straight

Kunz - Same as above

Halladay - Huge fastball break every time. Since he has room though I'll give him a 2-seamer in addition to his sinker, cutter, curveball, and changeup

Dice-K - He's a tricky one. There are certain pitchers that throw a tone of stuff and for those guys I try to make them as abnormal and hard to face as possible which means more breaking stuff. He's staying.

Okajima - Forkball is in

Beckett - He has a circle change already

Lester - Running fastball breaks opposite of cutter. I'll look into this "1 seamer"

[Whitesox]

Re: Full Minors Roster for '09

Okay I'm going to try to go through most of the things that you guys suggested and let you know why it made it in or missed the cut.


Pelfrey - I'm actually changing that today. It was on my list of changes.

Ollie - I would do it but there isn't any room. I gave him some funky stuff for my next one. He should be pretty confusing to face. If his control is on.

Livan - Gave him a 12-6. Sinker stays with no 4 seam because he doesn't throw one. I've never seen him throw a fastball that had less than 6-7 inches of break.

Niese - Gave him his runner back and a 12-6. Cutter stays.

Redding - Looked at some game footage and he gets the slurve back. I'll give him the 12-6 too

Figueroa - I'll give him either a running fastball or a cutter so that he'll have more different types of movement

Parnell - Has movement on his fastball so 2 seamer stays

Stokes - Knuckle Curve stays

Rodriguez -No idea who your talking about. K-Rod doesn't have anything close to what you just said he did in the roster

Feliciano and Green - Huge break on their fastballs. No way it stays straight

Kunz - Same as above

Halladay - Huge fastball break every time. Since he has room though I'll give him a 2-seamer in addition to his sinker, cutter, curveball, and changeup

Dice-K - He's a tricky one. There are certain pitchers that throw a tone of stuff and for those guys I try to make them as abnormal and hard to face as possible which means more breaking stuff. He's staying.

Okajima - Forkball is in

Beckett - He has a circle change already

Lester - Running fastball breaks opposite of cutter. I'll look into this "1 seamer"

Great stuff, I love how you make pitchers like Dice-k as crazy as possible