Fictional Rosters

[sluggbugg]

Re: Fictional Rosters

How much does defense raise the "overall bar"? I ask because I have played with every team and defensive ratings seem to be lower than avg for the big stars. If you watch the opening lineups before the game, the part where it shows the defensive positioning, in our roster you very seldom see a guy with a glove out beside his name. In the SCEA roster you will typically see a couple of gloves, not counting "gold" gloves, per team. Some of our second baseman, shortstops and center fielders in particular are probably lower than avg.

I haven't compared things to the SCEA roster like RM has so I'm just going on "feel" here. I will say though that I have absolutely no complaints of how the roster plays! It plays a great game of baseball. Im seeing good offense, good pitching outings and good defensive plays even if the ratings are a little "different".

I guess different doesn't necessarily mean bad.

Oh my god I'm turning into RM! That was a mini-wall of text!!!!

[statdude]

Re: Fictional Rosters

That possibly could effect how much the bar goes up. 0I'll see if I can play around with it after school today

[TripleThreat1973]

Re: Fictional Rosters

However, that subtle difference shows up more when you look at our position players. The SCEA roster, in the fantasy draft window, has several players with full "overall" bars and then several more players nearly at that level at every position. The fictional roster, on the other hand, had one player "William Griffin"--LF for the Orioles--that could be considered at that level of talent. For the position players, I was just going to bump up the talent of the top 10 to 15 players at each position not to replicate the ratings of the SCEA roster, but just to more closely approximate the sorts of players at the top in an SCEA roster.

That's what I was asking. I was just asking "how".

It would be interesting to see how much a player's bar jumps with "10 points" of the various rating categories. My guess is power and clutch increase the bar the most.

[sluggbugg]

Re: Fictional Rosters

That's what I was asking. I was just asking "how".

It would be interesting to see how much a player's bar jumps with "10 points" of the various rating categories. My guess is power and clutch increase the bar the most.

I would agree with this statement. I know clutch increases it a great deal both for pitchers and hitters.

I would also like to point out though that just like in NCAA Football, "Overall" can be "Overated" depending on what you need and like in a player. One rating can sometimes raise or lower an "overall" but that might not necessarily be the most important rating for the teams needs.

[WatchTheThrone]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Waiting soooo long for something like this! Thanks!

Downloading it right now from the vault.

edit- Wow so awesome! Just the other day I was doing a fantasy draft franchise with my Yankees and I drafted a bunch of created players, but now that this out I might as well start over.

Great stuff...Yankees are packed with a bunch of unknowns with potential who look interesting.

[statdude]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Also, we should work on pitch edits. We have submariners throwing 12-6 curves

[statdude]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Here is the breakdown for A OVR players and B OVR vs. the players on OSFM v4:
OSFM
SP:
A-22
B-93
Total-115

RP:
A-9
B-76
Total-85

CP
A-15
B-15
Total-30

C
A-2
B-9
Total-11

1B
A-7
B-16
Total-23

2B
A-5
B-16
Total-21

3B
A-6
B-9
Total-15

SS
A-6
B-9
Total-15

LF
A-5
B-20
Total-25

CF
A-4
B-21
Total-25

RF
A-9
B-21
Total-30

Fictional

SP
A-25
B-77
Total-102

RP
A-10
B-71
Total- 81

CP
A-20
B-27
Total 47

1B
A-1
B-10
Total 11

2B
A-0
B-16
Total 16

3B
A-1
B-4
Total 5

SS
A-2
B-7

LF
A-4
B-12
Total 16

CF
A-1
B-19
Total 20

RF
A-0
B-13
Total 13

Also, in a fantasy draft franchise, only one position player is picked while only 13 through the first 2 rounds. That is 78% pitchers in the first two rounds

[statdude]

Re: Fictional Rosters

as a 12-6. If you want it as a 9-3, ur best bet is a slider.

Like for example, the Angels best pitcher isn't a submarine, but a side arm guy and he throws a 12-6. We should change it to a slider or some other pitch that goes across. His pitches are 4sfb, 2sfb, 12-6, and ch. I would change to a 4sfb, 2sfb, sweeping curve or slurve, and ch.

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

How much does defense raise the "overall bar"? I ask because I have played with every team and defensive ratings seem to be lower than avg for the big stars. If you watch the opening lineups before the game, the part where it shows the defensive positioning, in our roster you very seldom see a guy with a glove out beside his name. In the SCEA roster you will typically see a couple of gloves, not counting "gold" gloves, per team. Some of our second baseman, shortstops and center fielders in particular are probably lower than avg.

I haven't compared things to the SCEA roster like RM has so I'm just going on "feel" here. I will say though that I have absolutely no complaints of how the roster plays! It plays a great game of baseball. Im seeing good offense, good pitching outings and good defensive plays even if the ratings are a little "different".

I guess different doesn't necessarily mean bad.

Oh my god I'm turning into RM! That was a mini-wall of text!!!!

I've only really looked at the top 15 first basemen, and when compared to Miguel Cabrera, Teixeira, Adrian Gonzalez, and so on, I moved up the defense where appropriate. But that's why I think keeping in mind averages, as well as the range of values for any given set of players, plus some idea of diversity and individual player type, all help to keep from going overboard on the edits.

I'm not saying this just to you SluggBugg, but just in general, it would be easy to think the players are too high or too low and go about blindly making increases or decreases to a bunch of players that might get things more screwed up than they were before.

I think TT's original spreadsheets had many more things right than there are things that need to be fixed.

TT would have to speak to this, but I figured the pitching deliveries were more or less randomized. So if there are submariners throwing 12-6 curves, the easier fix is probably just to change the delivery. Those things weren't written in stone.

I don't know how many side-arm/submarine pitchers there are in the majors, but I would imagine that if there is one per team in our league, that would be more than enough. Then you could certainly just go ahead and change whatever pitch types you think are necessary.

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

This. There are at least 10-15 full bar position players on the SCEA while we have one on the fiction. Also, the farm systems that I saw were pretty weak. You have the right amount of A's, but fall short with some of the B's that are not there.

I'm not surprised by this. On TT's original position player spreadsheet, there was a mix-up as to how many 'A' potential grades there were. He had the correct number of 'B's and 'C's. But what happened is that we didn't create all of the players listed, there were just too many on the spreadsheet. So in selecting only a certain number of players, while also trying to whittle down the number of 'A's, we ended up cutting out some of the B's. I made a potential grade breakdown chart for the teams based on the power rankings that TT used in the original spreadsheet. I also have counts of total 'A' 'B' and 'C' potentials there are in a normal SCEA roster. So I have an idea of how many 'B' and 'C' position players I'd like, but in order to get the finished roster out the door, so to speak, I just thought it looked close enough. The easiest fix is to just import generic 'B's and 'C's in place of some other generic players.

Also, one of the things I was going to look at was the number of players of different ages and another was the number of prospects in our league. If the ages were a little high (as there is some reason to believe, though I haven't confirmed it) I was going to solve both problems by turning some of the fictional players into prospects.

Although I should also add that since we have so many MLB ghost players that are supposed to retire quickly, part of my thinking about a lot of the potential grade numbers, as well as some other things, was just that I was planning on simulating a few seasons into the future, and hope that some of the numbers would just stabilize over time. Plus, with "ignore budgets" on, I figured a few extra potentials in any direction wouldn't cause too much trouble. I could be wrong, though.

[statdude]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I don't know how many side-arm/submarine pitchers there are in the majors, but I would imagine that if there is one per team in our league, that would be more than enough. Then you could certainly just go ahead and change whatever pitch types you think are necessary.

Kk 10 chars

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

That's what I was asking. I was just asking "how".

It would be interesting to see how much a player's bar jumps with "10 points" of the various rating categories. My guess is power and clutch increase the bar the most.

Sure, here is an example of an edit I've already made.

Arturo Valentin (ATL 1b) is either the highest or second highest overall rated first baseman on our fictional roster. Here are his pre-edit stats:

C/R = 77
C/L = 66
P/R = 99
P/L = 77
Pl. Vis. = 49
Pl. Disc. = 50
Clutch = 75
Dur. = 82
Spd = 44
Arm St = 40
Arm Acc = 40
React = 52
Fld = 55
BR Ab = 41
BR Agg = 59

I compared him to the numbers 1-5 (or so) first basemen on an SCEA spreadsheet, which were (excluding Pujols, since I didn't figure our first basemen necessarily ought to be held to such a standard) Cabrera, Adrian Gonzalez, Teixeira, and a couple others. Here are Gonzalez's stats (he's #4 in terms of overall rank) just for comparison:


C/R = 87
C/L = 77
P/R = 90
P/L = 70
Pl. Vis. = 58
Pl. Disc. = 95
Clutch = 92
Dur. = 98
Spd = 29
Arm St = 63
Arm Acc = 65
React = 82
Fld = 88
BR Ab = 3
BR Agg = 1

That's just to get a general sense. Of course, when I'm editing, I try to look at about 5 to 10 different players in the appropriate range and then only make changes with consideration for the kind of player I'm editing. I also don't make the same edits to each player, as in, "all players get +5 to plate discipline". I try to get a sense for, say, how many slugging 1B's have good plate discipline and then I adjust a few of the fictional players with already good discipline and just bump them up to what looks like the correct levels. It's really not an exact process, I'm keeping in mind lots of considerations and then adjusting by "feel" more or less.

Anyways, here are the adjustments I made to Arturo Valentin:

C/R = 87 (+10)
C/L = 86 (+20)
P/R = 99
P/L = 92 (+15)
Pl. Vis. = 49
Pl. Disc. = 70 (+20)
Clutch = 85 (+10)
Dur. = 87 (+5)
Spd = 44
Arm St = 71 (+31)
Arm Acc = 70 (+30)
React = 62 (+10)
Fld = 65 (+10)
BR Ab = 24 (-17)
BR Agg = 16 (-43)

That's just an example. With many of the other players, I either kept their splits the same or increased them a bit, I didn't do that to the contact or power ratings for Arturo since he's the number 1 or number 2 first baseman in the entire league. I knocked down his baserunning ratings to be more in line with speed, though I didn't do that to all of the first basemen. I didn't increase his plate vision at all, but I increased some for the others. He got a boost to his discipline, but not as high as some of the others (though I also decreased some of the others). Arturo got pretty good bumps to all of his fielding ratings because the best players at any position on the SCEA roster are both good hitters and fielders. There are probably 5 or 6 of the best overall first basemen in our league that are better fielders. There might be some other better defensive first basemen among the back-ups, but I haven't gotten that far.

Hopefully that provides some sense of what I'm doing, or how high the increases are for some of the top players.

RM

[raleigh mcclure]

Re: Fictional Rosters

I would agree with this statement. I know clutch increases it a great deal both for pitchers and hitters.

I would also like to point out though that just like in NCAA Football, "Overall" can be "Overated" depending on what you need and like in a player. One rating can sometimes raise or lower an "overall" but that might not necessarily be the most important rating for the teams needs.

I would agree with the comment about the problem with overall ratings. In this case, however, it was an indication of a discrepancy between the best players on the fictional roster and the SCEA roster. Or a discrepancy between fictional pitchers and batters, which is more important in terms of the balance of our roster.

You can especially see some of the ways that the overall ratings mislead when you see shortstops with 99 arm stg, arm acc, react, and fielding ratings, but because of a weak bat the overall bar looks like it belongs to a minor leaguer. Of course every team would like a great hitting shortstop, but as a manager I would be more than happy with a defensive stud hitting just above the Mendoza line. Though of course that's a debatable matter of preference. Anyways, lots to consider...

[sluggbugg]

Re: Fictional Rosters

Hey I'm a Braves fan so I love those adjustments to Arturo "Pee Wee'' Valentin but remember he hit like .312 43hr 119rbi with the initial ratings. Not bad for a 22yr old. What kinda numbers is he gonnna put up with those new ratings?

[sluggbugg]

Re: Fictional Rosters

James Rodriquez of the Angels won the Triple Crown in the first season with .337 52 151...What are his ratings? He's not a "full bar" guy, I know that.

Edit: I checked his ratings

R con 85
L Con 73
R Pow 79
L Pow 61
PV 65
PD 78
CL 79

I do some simming of franchise before I changed much.