Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

The dismissive attitude is really constructive...

Would you flip them? The more I read on Underwood, the more I like. So I wouldn't be inclined to disagree with you.

I have Blackburn at a B-/B and Underwood at a C+ (I had him at C+/B- for a bit, but decided to put him at C+ from the feedback in the thread so far). But Blackburn might deserve a B.

Actually looking back jnavarro had Underwood at a B+.

So you guys think Blackburn deserves a B and Underwood a B-? I might be too conservative with the potentials so let me know.

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

All I am saying is that there is more to Jackson than his strikeout rate, he does other things well like drawing walks. If you look closer yeah lately in AAA his OBP took a dive. Comparing him to Rizzo though (especially his two huge AAA seasons) doesn't change what Jackson is or what he has become recently. I shouldn't have compared him to Rizzo to say that Jackson does other things well. IN the direct comparison its obvious Rizzo is a better hitter in many ways, but they are two different players who play very different positions and do different things well.

For the prospects that have been mentioned, the single A players. Are there any that you guys wouldn't be sad to lose. I'm two over the 90 limit and trying to determine which ones to cut loose. I don't think there is going to be room for Daury Torrez for instance.

I'll try to post a list of the 90 players and their potentials later today and see what you guys think.

Looking forward to the list.

Even if you're a couple over it shouldn't be too big of a deal, my guess is that at least two roster spots will free up by the time OSFM is ready to release, so you might as well prepare them anyways.

Oh and according to Bleacher Nation (great Cubs site, check it out if you haven't) the Cubs reportedly have signed Cuban pitcher Armando Rivera, and he will start the season at Tennessee. Here's their take on him from last year when it was rumored the Cubs were initially interested:

"The Cubs are reportedly interested in another newly-eligible Cuban free agent, 23-year-old pitcher Armando Rivero. The right-handed power arm uses a three-pitch mix, and has a fastball that sits in the mid 90s, but reportedly reached the upper 90s in workouts last year. He was a closer in Cuba, and one of the better ones. At 6’3″ and 195 lbs, he’s certainly got the body of a power pitcher. Other teams said to be interested include the Yankees, White Sox, Dodgers, Mets, and Indians.

Given his advanced age, and role in the bullpen, Rivero is the kind of prospect who could move quickly up the farm system ladder.
Teams have been scouting Rivero for months, and, although he isn’t the prospect that Soler is (or even, perhaps, Gerardo Concepcion is), he’s still someone in whom plenty of teams have interest. We might hear more about him in the next two weeks."

As if you weren't having a hard enough time getting the roster to 90!

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

That is interesting.

If he is a legit prospect I'd be happy to include him over a lower rated single A player.

And if he is on the AA roster at the start of the season I don't see any reason why he couldn't be squeezed in.

These guys that do not make it into OSFM official can still be made my myself or if you guys want to make them. Then you can download them from the player vault. So like Daury Torrez, there is no reason he can't be created and put up on the vault to import into your personal OSFM roster.

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I have Blackburn at a B-/B and Underwood at a C+ (I had him at C+/B- for a bit, but decided to put him at C+ from the feedback in the thread so far). But Blackburn might deserve a B.

Actually looking back jnavarro had Underwood at a B+.

So you guys think Blackburn deserves a B and Underwood a B-? I might be too conservative with the potentials so let me know.

He's a difficult case imo, he's talented as all hell but has a lot of polish to accumulate.

If it were up to me I'd probably keep him in the C+/B- range, but it'd be difficult to argue with anyone putting him as a B+ because of his raw ability.

The Cubs have a lot of "moderate ceiling" pitching prospects. They are tough to grade out.

A little more on Duane Underwood from Luke at Bleacher Nation...

Where to watch him: Arizona or Boise
Wrigley Field ETA: 2016+
Projects as: Too raw to project

"When the Cubs drafted Underwood he was better described as a thrower, not a pitcher. His fastball often sat in the mid 90 to upper 90s, but some days he could not get it out of the 80s. His curve was good … when it worked. Location came and went. He flashed the potential to be something special, but then hid that potential behind a mask of inconsistencies.

It will likely take longer for the Cubs to craft Underwood into a pitcher than it will some of the other pitching prospects they selected last year, but Underwood may have the highest ceiling in that group. I expect him to spend some time in Boise this year, but don’t be surprised if he makes half a dozen more starts in Arizona first. "

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

That is interesting.

If he is a legit prospect I'd be happy to include him over a lower rated single A player.

And if he is on the AA roster at the start of the season I don't see any reason why he couldn't be squeezed in.

These guys that do not make it into OSFM official can still be made my myself or if you guys want to make them. Then you can download them from the player vault. So like Daury Torrez, there is no reason he can't be created and put up on the vault to import into your personal OSFM roster.

Yeah for sure, one of the great things about the "vaults" that SCEA provided for us. It takes like 30 seconds to download a player and import him into your own rosters. Pretty awesome stuff.

But yeah, Rivero sounds like a legit reliever prospect, I'd like to see it come in from another source as well to confirm it. He was just on the list of players going to Tennessee so they put two-and-two together. I'll let you know if I see anything.

although he isn’t the prospect that Soler is (or even, perhaps, Gerardo Concepcion is)

A prime example of how quickly the prospect landscape can change...lol

[hjgilber]

The dismissive attitude is really helpful...

Would you flip them? The more I read on Underwood, the more I like. So I wouldn't be inclined to disagree with you.

Sorry for the dismissive tone. Blackburn has a nice floor, but yeah he's C+ish to me, maybe a tiny bit better. Underwood is a B for sure, big ceiling.

Not a bad idea to flip them.

[hjgilber]

All I am saying is that there is more to Jackson than his strikeout rate, he does other things well like drawing walks. If you look closer yeah lately in AAA his OBP took a dive. Comparing him to Rizzo though (especially his two huge AAA seasons) doesn't change what Jackson is or what he has become recently. I shouldn't have compared him to Rizzo to say that Jackson does other things well. IN the direct comparison its obvious Rizzo is a better hitter in many ways, but they are two different players who play very different positions and do different things well.

For the prospects that have been mentioned, the single A players. Are there any that you guys wouldn't be sad to lose. I'm two over the 90 limit and trying to determine which ones to cut loose. I don't think there is going to be room for Daury Torrez for instance.

I'll try to post a list of the 90 players and their potentials later today and see what you guys think.

Still ignoring the age appropriate factor.

Rizzo does basically everything better. Jackson almost walks too much (I realize that's a funny thing to hear, but it's true), it's part of the problem with him. His hit tool isn't good enough for the level of patience he has, so he gets himself into a lot of deep, two strike counts which is counterproductive and leads to him striking out. If he had a better contact ability, the patience would be great, but it would probably benefit Jackson to be a little more aggressive and avoid more 2 strike counts.

Rizzo's on base ability is far more practical and useful. Rizzo does everything involving hitting better than Jackson.

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Sorry for the dismissive tone. Blackburn has a nice floor, but yeah he's C+ish to me, maybe a tiny bit better. Underwood is a B for sure, big ceiling.

Not a bad idea to flip them.

It's all good man, no worries.

I'll go with you on this one. His upside is undeniable.

I'm curious as to what potentials you would give the Cubs SP prospects? (other than Underwood and Blackburn) Like Johnson/Maples/Whitenack/Loux/Loosen/McNeil/Wells.

[jnavarro]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I'm curious as to what potentials you would give the Cubs SP prospects? (other than Underwood and Blackburn) Like Johnson/Maples/Whitenack/Loux/Loosen/McNeil/Wells.

I like Maples the best of that bunch. Solid B for him. Johnson B-, the others in the Cs. I think McNeil might surprise and become a big one but the isn't there yet. My favorite Cubs arm is Paniagua. The guy is awesome and should move fast. They gave him 1.5 million to sign. This is a guy who I feel will be top 50 next season. He hit 100 in the gun this winter but we need to see more of him.

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I like Maples the best of that bunch. Solid B for him. Johnson B-, the others in the Cs. I think McNeil might surprise and become a big one but the isn't there yet. My favorite Cubs arm is Paniagua. The guy is awesome and should move fast. They gave him 1.5 million to sign. This is a guy who I feel will be top 50 next season. He hit 100 in the gun this winter but we need to see more of him.

I knew I'd forget to list one of the more intriguing names!

Yeah the only thing I don't like about him is it seems unclear (from what I read) as to whether he projects as a SP or RP. That and his falsifying documents charges that caused the MLB to void his contract with the D-Backs and deny a contract agreement with the Yankees. But that's water under the bridge and only brings into question his age, there's a reason he keeps getting $1mil+ contract offers from organizations. So there's definitely talent there.

I'm a McNeil believer as well, I'd love for him to get into the B-/B range potential wise but realize that the Cubs have a lot of fringe C+/B- guys so we can't be generous to them all.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I knew I'd forget to list one of the more intriguing names!

Yeah the only thing I don't like about him is it seems unclear (from what I read) as to whether he projects as a SP or RP. That and his falsifying documents charges that caused the MLB to void his contract with the D-Backs and deny a contract agreement with the Yankees. But that's water under the bridge and only brings into question his age, there's a reason he keeps getting $1mil+ contract offers from organizations. So there's definitely talent there.

I'm a McNeil believer as well, I'd love for him to get into the B-/B range potential wise but realize that the Cubs have a lot of fringe C+/B- guys so we can't be generous to them all.

As it is now I don't have McNeil on the 90 man roster. I have him in the reserve pile. I had to remove some of the lower level A players since seanjeezy said he wanted a 100% accurate AAA. That means some players that we might not be that high on as young prospects will be in the roster if that is the case.

I have Paniagua as a B, Maples as a B-/B and McNeil as a C+. Paniagua and Maples are on the 90 man roster.

For instance last year Authentic had players like Greg Rohan and Jay Jackson on the AAA roster. What could help me is if you guys had a solid idea of what the AAA roster might project to be. I have quite a few players on the AAA team, but with spring training going on who knows how many of those will be there by opening day, which is why I have the reserve pile.

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

As it is now I don't have McNeil on the 90 man roster. I have him in the reserve pile. I had to remove some of the lower level A players since seanjeezy said he wanted a 100% accurate AAA. That means some players that we might not be that high on as young prospects will be in the roster if that is the case.

I have Paniagua as a B, Maples as a B-/B and McNeil as a C+. Paniagua and Maples are on the 90 man roster.

For instance last year Authentic had players like Greg Rohan and Jay Jackson on the AAA roster. What could help me is if you guys had a solid idea of what the AAA roster might project to be. I have quite a few players on the AAA team, but with spring training going on who knows how many of those will be there by opening day, which is why I have the reserve pile.

Boooooo. Hiss. Boooooooooo.

lol jk man. I figured he was in trouble to not make the roster. Totally reasonable. I'll just create him myself or if you already did then I'll import him over whichever Iowa/Tennessee player I don't see having a role in my franchise.

BTW - Phil Rogers said that the Cubs signed RP Prospect Armando Rivero, while Carrie Muskat said no. So some mixed signals, but I think he'll be in the Cubs organization when the smoke clears. *Rumors are he is in Arizona and the deal being finalized is just pending a physical.

No clue on the Iowa roster yet. Probably any combination of these players:

SP

Nick Struck
Drew Carpenter
Brooks Raley
Chris Rusin
Arodys Vizcaino
Robert Whitenack
Jason Berken
Dallas Beeler
Yoanner Negrin
Marcello Carreno

RP

Alberto Cabrera
Michael Bowden
Rafael Dolis
Hisanori Takahashi
Esmailin Caridad
Jay Jackson
Marcus Hatley
Ty'Relle Harris
Casey Weathers
Marcos Mateo
Casey Coleman
Lendy Castillo
Blake Parker
Jensen Lewis
Cory Wade
Zach Putnam
Jaye Chapman
Dayan Diaz
Carlos Gutierrez

C

J.C. Boscan
Steve Clevenger

1B

Greg Rohan
Brad Nelson

SS

Edwin Maysonet

2B

Logan Watkins
Alberto Gonzalez

3B

Josh Vitters
Junior Lake

OF

Ty Wright
Jonathan Mota
Darnell McDonald
Brian Bogusevic
Dave Sappelt
Brett Jackson
Brent Lillibridge
Johermyn Chavez

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Take a look at Authentic's roster last year and you'll notice that he had a lot of the older AAA guys on it, which is in line with what seanjeezy said. So I feel that I should start from there, add in the players he had on AAA that are still in the Cubs organization.

Then get the basic AA roster. Then with the remaining slots add in the lower level players. But most of these are already in for sure. Soler, Almora, Vogelbach, Johnson, Maples, etc.

Its the guys like Dunston I am thinking of cutting, even though Authentic had him in last year I feel like there are better single A prospects to include at this point now. I'll post the entire list and you guys can give input on who should stay and who can go.

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Take a look at Authentic's roster last year and you'll notice that he had a lot of the older AAA guys on it, which is in line with what seanjeezy said. So I feel that I should start from there, add in the players he had on AAA that are still in the Cubs organization.

Then get the basic AA roster. Then with the remaining slots add in the lower level players. But most of these are already in for sure. Soler, Almora, Vogelbach, Johnson, Maples, etc.

Its the guys like Dunston I am thinking of cutting, even though Authentic had him in last year I feel like there are better single A prospects to include at this point now. I'll post the entire list and you guys can give input on who should stay and who can go.

Definitely so.

I was just joking around about McNeil. I know the circumstances you're working under, and providing a full AAA team is necessary.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

97 total players on working roster

Nothing here is final by any means so if you guys have opinions on potentials, who to cut, who to add, etc. I used the recommendations in this thread, various available scouting reports and authentic's ratings last year to determine these. Some players I rated higher than authentic and some lower, but I assume that is just from a year passing and players' stock rising and falling. Like most things these are opinion based, but I tried to look at at many opinions. The / players are the ones I'm still debating the most which way they should go. Or if you think I'm way off on anything let me know, this is my first year doing OSFM so the more help I can get the better.

These are the players I am doing equipment, stances, ratings, etc right now. But things can change and players can be added and taken away even when the roster is down to 90. I'm assuming things will change as opening day comes closer, especially with AAA.

And there are players that are likely to be on the AAA roster I don't have on this list. If they do look like they will be on the AAA roster I'll have to add them in as AAA should be 100%.

*= potential rating in MLB 13

Some of them I put in different ratings in case they should be remade.

MLB (27 players 2 DL)

Spoiler

Wellington Castillo C*
Dioner Navarro C*
Anthony Rizzo A*
Darwin Barney C*
Starlin Castro A*
Brent Lillibridge D*
Ian Stewart B*
Luis Valbuena B*
Alfonso Soriano A*
David DeJesus C*
Scott Hairston C*
Dave Sappelt C*
Nate Schierholtz C*

Jeff Samardzija C*
Edwin Jackson C*
Scott Feldman C*
Travis Wood B*
Carlos Villanueva B*
Matt Garza DL B*
Scott Baker DL B*

Carlos Marmol B*
James Russell B*
Shawn Camp B*
Michael Bowden C*
Alberto Cabrera C+/B- (B*)
Kyuji Fujikawa B-/B
H. Rondon R5 C

AAA (28 players)

Spoiler

Steve Clevenger C*
J.C. Boscan D*
Brad Nelson D+
Logan Watkins C+
Alberto Gonzalez D*
Junior Lake B
Edwin Maysonet D*
Josh Vitters C+/B- (A*)
Greg Rohan D+/C-
Ty Wright D/D+
Brian Bogusevic C*
Darnell McDonald C*
Brett Jackson B-/B (A*)

Jason Berken D*
Brooks Raley B
Arodys Vizcaino B+ (A-*)
Chris Rusin B*
Nick Struck C

Hisanori Takahasi B*
Rafael Dolis C*
Casey Coleman C*
Drew Carpenter D+/C- (D*)
Blake Parker C (B*)
Zach Putnam C*
Cory Wade C*
Jensen Lewis D
Casey Weathers D+
Jay Jackson C
Lendy Castillo C*

AA (23 players)

Spoiler

Michael Brenly C-
Justin Bour C
Ronald Torreyes C+/B-
Elliot Soto C
Christian Villanueva B-
Rubi Silva C-
Matt Szczur C+/B-
Jae-Hoon Ha C
Johermyn Chavez C-
Nelson Perez D+
Michael Burgess C-/C

Robert Whitenack C+/B-
Barrett Loux C+
Austin Kirk C-
Dae-Eun Rhee D/D+
Dallas Beeler C-

Trey McNutt C+/B-
Jaye Chapman D+(B*)
Dayan Diaz C
Tony Zych C
Marcus Hatley C
Jeffry Antigua C-/C

A (19 players)

Spoiler

Rafael Lopez C-
Dan Vogelbach B-/B
Gioskar Amaya C/C+
Javier Baez A
Marco Hernandez C
Arismendy Alacantara B-
Jeimer Candelario B-
Shawn Dunston Jr C
Albert Almora B+
Trey Martin C+/B-
Jorge Soler A-
Reggie Golden C

Pierce Johnson C+/B-
Dillon Maples B-/B
Paul Blackburn C+/B-
Duane Underwood B-/B
Juan Carlos Paniagua B
Matt Loosen C
Ryan McNeil C+