Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Players always reach their potential, there's little chance of them ever busting. I think your underrating the system, go thru the game last year and see how many players got A overalls, many, if not most were not stars, just above average players.

Right. And shouldn't we be attempting to fix this issue rather than sweep it under the rug? Having a franchise filled with studs at every position doesn't sound like much fun.

IMO:

Baez - A
Soler - B+ or A-
Almora - B or B+
I felt like I should explain Almora. High floor, but his ceiling doesn't match. Should be a really good starter. Just not a perennial All-Star like I think the "A" ratings should be saved for.

We have to be diligent with these "A" ratings. Otherwise franchise mode will just become saturated with amazing players and we'll see players in their prime sitting in free agency, etc.

[seanjeezy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I'm pretty sure that's how yanks has it, we've discussed potential extensively and I currently have Baez as a straight A, Soler as an A/A-, and Almora as a B+.

Here's the thing though, there are always a few head scratchers in the stock roster, and even in the first update. Last year it was Yonder Alonso, Justin Smoak, etc. This is year its Chris Tillman, Steve Lombardozzi, and most likely a few more who are undeserving of A potentials. Do you honestly think that Soler and Almora won't have better careers than these guys?

Also, Knight has stated that the threshold for A's is approximately 60-70, including the A prospects who should already be in the game my list is sitting at 65, with only 20 something being above an A- and a handful above a straight A.

[jnavarro]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I think fans tend to underrate Almora because he doesn't have that one big "wow" tool. Scouts love him though and I think he is definitely an A-. A few scouts had him as the top player in last year's draft. The Cubs had him at the top of their board. The comparison that many make is Derek Jeter in centerfield. I'll take that any day and I think that certainly qualifies as a star. This is just my opinion and I don't plan to start an argument over it. I might get overruled on it and that is why we need these community discussions. I'm going to see what ksig (our resident professional scout) thinks about him.

[yanksdaniel99]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Right. And shouldn't we be attempting to fix this issue rather than sweep it under the rug? Having a franchise filled with studs at every position doesn't sound like much fun.

IMO:

Baez - A
Soler - B+ or A-
Almora - B or B+
I felt like I should explain Almora. High floor, but his ceiling doesn't match. Should be a really good starter. Just not a perennial All-Star like I think the "A" ratings should be saved for.

We have to be diligent with these "A" ratings. Otherwise franchise mode will just become saturated with amazing players and we'll see players in their prime sitting in free agency, etc.

It can't be fixed when we can't edit it. The original discussion Seanjezzy and I had was to limit the A specs to around 35-40, however after seeing guys like Tillman, Lombardozzi & a variety of others get A's, it made sense to us that certain borderline guys should be bumped up to A-'s an attempt to offset this issue.

Franchise isn't fun/realistic when Chris Tillman turns into Verlander & Lombardozzi turns into Cano.

[yanksdaniel99]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I think fans tend to underrate Almora because he doesn't have that one big "wow" tool. Scouts love him though and I think he is definitely an A-. A few scouts had him as the top player in last year's draft. The Cubs had him at the top of their board. The comparison that many make is Derek Jeter in centerfield. I'll take that any day and I think that certainly qualifies as a star. This is just my opinion and I don't plan to start an argument over it. I might get overruled on it and that is why we need these community discussions. I'm going to see what ksig (our resident professional scout) thinks about him.

I know last year for the draft, I had him as a B+. He had an ok short season, good contact, no walks, I'm totally ok with him as an A- if that's your call.

[seanjeezy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I think fans tend to underrate Almora because he doesn't have that one big "wow" tool. Scouts love him though and I think he is definitely an A-. A few scouts had him as the top player in last year's draft. The Cubs had him at the top of their board. The comparison that many make is Derek Jeter in centerfield. I'll take that any day and I think that certainly qualifies as a star. This is just my opinion and I don't plan to start an argument over it. I might get overruled on it and that is why we need these community discussions. I'm going to see what ksig (our resident professional scout) thinks about him.

I rated out Almora as a .295 hitter with 15-20 HR's and plus-plus D and he was a B+, the only way he sneaks into A- territory is with a greater power projection which is not likely...

[skow05]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

It can't be fixed when we can't edit it. The original discussion Seanjezzy and I had was to limit the A specs to around 35-40, however after seeing guys like Tillman, Lombardozzi & a variety of others get A's, it made sense to us that certain borderline guys should be bumped up to A-'s an attempt to offset this issue.

Franchise isn't fun/realistic when Chris Tillman turns into Verlander & Lombardozzi turns into Cano.

Totally understand that, I was mainly thinking about the prospects potential that we have a direct influence upon, not necessarily the over/under rating of existing SCEA player potentials.

But I agree. NOT FUN! lol

[js3512]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Players always reach their potential, there's little chance of them ever busting. I think your underrating the system, go thru the game last year and see how many players got A overalls, many, if not most were not stars, just above average players.

I thought I read somewhere that that has changed for this years game and that you'll have busts this year. Maybe I'm imagining it but I could swear I read/heard that in one of the numerous interviews with Russell the past few weeks.

[yanksdaniel99]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Totally understand that, I was mainly thinking about the prospects potential that we have a direct influence upon, not necessarily the over/under rating of existing SCEA player potentials.

But I agree. NOT FUN! lol

Right, we do out best to work with what we can, but at the same time, we try to correct the existing problems.

In a perfect world, this is what things SHOULD look like:

A - Stars, top 3-5 at position, aces
B - above average regulars, #2/3 starters etc
C - average regulars, #4 starters
D - AAAA guys, average bench bats etc.
F - minor league depth

This is what things ACTUALLY are

A - stars & above average regulars, #2/high #3 starters
B - regulars, #3/4 starters
C - bench guys
D & F - minor league depth

[yanksdaniel99]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I thought I read somewhere that that has changed for this years game and that you'll have busts this year. Maybe I'm imagining it but I could swear I read/heard that in one of the numerous interviews with Russell the past few weeks.

Not exactly, that's for the draft guys when scouting them.

There's no bust for already existing players, they change a +/- within a level grade but very rarely do actually letter grades change.

Take Almora for example, he gets a B9 (highest B+). If you develop him properly, he CAN turn into a A-.

[jnavarro]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Not exactly, that's for the draft guys when scouting them.

There's no bust for already existing players, they change a +/- within a level grade but very rarely do actually letter grades change.

Take Almora for example, he gets a B9 (highest B+). If you develop him properly, he CAN turn into a A-.

I suppose I could see that B9 for Almora. It gives him some room to grow. I did throw this question to ksig24 and I'll be interested to see what he thinks. He seems to always have a good handle but I've never heard him talk about Almora.

[MrOldboy]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I rated out Almora as a .295 hitter with 15-20 HR's and plus-plus D and he was a B+, the only way he sneaks into A- territory is with a greater power projection which is not likely...

That was exactly what I was thinking. His power projection doesn't justify an A rating to me. A very solid outfielder.

Like someone mentioned I think as a whole the A ratings should be given out less frequently. When the development in the game is such a sure thing you can't just give players and A because they have high potential because in the game it sounds like they will always reach it.

[ksig24]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

OK, Almora.

There is an awful lot to like about him. He has intangibles galore with an outstanding makeup. Scouts drool because the kid is so doggone humble and pretty much does what he is told. The fact that he was drafted where he was is indicative of several key factors. His tools may not be freakish, but he has all of them and if he adds to his frame with muscle, he surpasses the expectations statistically. His frame is really great to build upon. I think that if he adds the muscle, the strength will come and none of his tools suffer. His overall hit tool is a projected above average tool, but I would say currently its nothing more than a 5-55 which is fantastic for a player his age. Another thing is that he is a world class showcase player with outstanding success at those levels. Essentially when he was a soph and junior in HS he was facing D1 and future minor leaguers and holding his own. He is extremely advanced for his age. He also didnt get promoted to Boise for nothing. I dont see him being a Soler or Baez in terms of power. That actually brings me back to an old debacle that was going on in Scott's Roster Building Thread about Gallo and Baez. I have to say that the debate that was going on over there with the "name 20 prospects better than Baez." I would rank Baez in the top 20 easily right now. The kid has ridiculous hands and bad speed. 30 homers will be the norm for him when he hits his stride if he doesnt bust.

Ok, back to Almora. His ceiling is high, but his floor should be pretty close to his ceiling. Anyone calling him a sure thing really needs to refrain from this because its doing nothing more than setting someone up for failure. He is young and I see the Cubs taking their time with him regardless of his progression. The Cubbies have a lot to be excited about.

I could expound more about Almora and his approach and what I see of his hitting, but I am not all that in love with his mechanics. This however, means nothing.

I am not too up on the player progression of this years game yet so I will let Jeezy and Yanks chime in on that. I have player info, but not all this much comes into play with this game because of the garantee of players reaching their potential.

[jnavarro]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

Thanks for coming in and giving us that information ksig. I think this will help the roster builders figure him out.

[rjackson]

Re: Cubs Player Potential Discussion: 2013 OSFM roster

I agree with a lot of what has been said and see the point about Tillman/Lambordozzi/etc. I just wanted to throw another wrench into this--positional adjustments for the potential in the game. Almora is CF, right? If so, power is not really considered (I assume) until after defense, contact, and speed. Put him in RF then it probably goes power, contact, arm strength or something along those lines for example. So, does Almora's defense in CF, contact hitting, and speed warrant an A or a B or a B9?