RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

[RAZRr1275]

I saw that some people were asking about this in the full minors thread and in other people's slider threads so instead of cluttering up threads I'm starting this one. In the the roster thread I suggested these

USER
Pitch control 1
Consistency 7

CPU
Control 5
Consistency 3
Strike Frequency 0
Manager Hook 4

and
Starter Stamina 5
Reliever Stamina 0 for both user and cpu

changes to go best with the OS Full minors roster pitch edits. This thread will serve as a thread for discussion about compatibility with other sets, and how effective these changes are. Please offer stats and test these out and report back in this thread. I am not and do not claim to be an experienced slider maker so if any of you guys want to chime in then feel free to do so also.

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

do you use classic or meter Razer ?

[HustlinOwl]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

Im still using Psycho's 3.2 with mixed results, but will play about 30 game before I make any decisions

[ltw0303cavs]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

ok so i was skeptical of these sliders because i use classic and with pitch control at one. Guess what i was wrong, i know you have to play 30 games or so but i used razers rosters with his sliders.Used Strasburg 6 innings 107 pitches and i still had a little energy left. So 6ip 3 hits 1 er 3 walks 8 ks. 58 percent strike pct. I did have trouble throwing breaking pitches for strikes but still i was never below 50 percent for any of my pitches.

[huskerfan4life]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

ok through my first game here's the pitching line I'm losing 2-1 because I'm a free swinger LOL
strasburg 7 ip 5 h 2 r 2 er 2 bb 7 so 2,57 era 102 pitches
halladay 9 ip 2 h 1 r 1 er o bb 11 so 1.00era 75 pitches

help i need help i swing at anything anyone give me tips please

by the way i lost 2-1

[crayzman]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

I'm a bit of a free swing but right now halladay has like 35 pitches through 4 and strasburg has 64 through 4 anyone got any tips on batting LOL

Halladay is a tough one as he's typically going to throw a lot of first pitch strikes with any pitch and then just miss outside the zone but still close enough where you think you should swing. What I do to work the count against any pitcher is typically watch strike one unless it's in the meat of the zone and then expand the strike zone. With one strike I'll swing for any strike that isn't on the edge of the strike zone. Two strikes, it's time to battle.

I'm not a great hitter by any means though lol, usually average around 2 walks a game with 8-9 K's.

As for staying on topic, I've bumped the CPU's starter stamina up to 7 because I've been finding in general that the CPU's starters were gassing out too quick for my liking. Like 60 pitches and having maybe a third (probably closer to a quarter) of their stamina left.

[Jgainsey]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

Just finished a 3 games series against the Cubs with Atlanta, and I think I'm going to have to make some adjustments. Aside from your slider suggestions, everything else was on CHD's HOF slider set. The only exception being that I was using HOF difficulty for hitting, not All Star.

Let me start with what worked well in this series... WALKS! This was the first time playing '10 where my ability to draw a walk felt almost perfect. I had to have averaged like 5 or 6 walks a game. It really adds a realistic dynamic to the game when your OBP isn't completely average driven.

The other thing I liked was the pitching on the users end. The stamina seemed to be fine on both ends, and pitch counts were good too. The first game had a little bit of a learning curve, but after that the control felt very good on HOF. I was walking my fair share of batters, and giving up enough mistake pitches as well.

The only problem was the offense on my end. At the end of the series my BA was .432, with 5 homers, and 29 RBIs. I think I ended up scoring a total of 31 runs. The Cub pitchers spent way too much time behind in the count, and it forced them to make a ton of bad 2-0/3-1 pitches. I've been hitting a little to well with HOF lately though, so I'm going to try out some things on Legend. Maybe that will help to curb my offense.

[abcabc]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

here's my most recent two games (exhibition) allstar pitching, veteran hitting, no guess pitch, classic pitching mode.

Both NYY vs Bos at NY, both Pettitte vs. Beckett

game1.
19 to 18 NYY. 18hits by NY, 19 by Bos.
Tex 3 HRs, Granderson, for other NY hitters w/ shots.

Game was 7 to 1 NYY and by the 3rd, and Pettitte was holding it down, survived about 3 walks up to the 3rd, but he was running out of gas (energy) by the 4th. I felt the game was gonna crack, like one of 'those' where you score big, thus the CPU scores big, and then the end is a one run final. And that's what happened.

Pulled him after he walked 2 more in his final inning, the forth inning, and his confidence was about 30% and I had already visited the mound. Finished w/ 4 2/3 innings, low confidence and low energy... this was about 88 pitches... the announcer said 'that was a Reagan era fastball'....

Anyway, Beckett got knocked out of the game early because of all the HRs he gave up. Boston took the lead after my mopup guy Aceves couldn't hold for Pettitte. In the end I won by 1 run in extra innings.

game2.
9 to 8 NYY. also, 1 run difference. Hits were whatever NY had, Bos had 1 more. (Similar makeup to my first game, huh.)

Tex 3run homerun.
Arod triple. Bos hit a grandslam off Pettitte.

Beckett was around 75pitches, got knocked out of the game. 33% energy left, that was 6th inning...

Here's what I see w/ Pettitte. His energy bar was gone before the 93rd pitch. This time it happened at the 6th inning. 7hits, 7runs (from grandslam), 3 walks think. I pulled him somewhere within the 6th inning because his 4seam was only 84mph. his cutter, less than that. and he was hittable.

In real life, he's supposed to go 100-105 pitches and still have at least a 88mph fastball and some feel for what he's doing. My feeling was by just a mere 90pitches, I was just using him to see how much batting practice he would survive...

I went immediately to the sliders and bumped up the stamina up +2 bars, but it didnt up his energy... maybe that slider isn't applicable for a pitcher already on the mound dunno.

[coreyhartsdaughter]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

I'm having a hard time understanding where people are getting the 100 pitch/9 inning number...

...Most quality starts of 6-7 innings will be just under 100 pitches, more so if they're striking guys out or averaging realistic BB/9 or H/9 stat.

Here's the formula developed for estimating pitch counts:

3.3 x PA + 1.5 x SO + 2.2 x BB = estimate pitch count.

Test. Since everyone has a Stratsburg boner, here's his line verse Cleveland:

23 batters faced (3.3 x 23 = 75.9) + 8 K's (8 x 1.5 = 12) + 5 BB (5 x 2.2 = 11) = 98.9

He finished 5 innings with 95 pitches...

My point, saying 'I need to throw 100 pitches' is one thing, but those 100 pitches may only get you to the 5th or 6th and you SHOULD be gassed. The focus should be on fixing what will get you realistic K/9, H/9 and BB/9 numbers, not ensuring a pitcher can get to 100 pitches and perform admirably.

[abcabc]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

if your post was in response to my research... my last two paragraphs tried to put it in plain terms. the 'feel' of pettitte's effectiveness caps off at 90 pitches. i don't care how many innings it takes to get to 90 right now in my testing. It seems to be the case that in this game, when a pitcher's energy bar is empty, the guy's stuff falls off a cliff... especially when this particular pitcher's stuff in real life is as he describes himself 'a grinder'... maybe this type of pitcher cannot be translated into attributes well. He doesnt have any 'plus' pitches so when he gets to 90 pitches so far in my tests he's hittable, alarmingly more than he is after 90 pitches in real life. The guy gets outs in real life and maintains effectiveness / mph to 110 pitches... They don't let him go much more than that... but it feels like 95 pitches in this game now, could be him in real life after a theoretical 125 pitches... (I noticed his clutch rating was reduced by over 10% btw. not saying his SCEA was necessarily warranted or what the heck clutch does for a player in this game.)

my next tests will be after bumping the slider bar up 2 notches from what i had it at. I've been using psycho's all year.

And no complaints about Beckett's outing... was reporting his outings that is all. my next tests are for me to be Boston, vs NYY w/ the same set up, and see how long the CPU controls Pettitte, and I, Beckett... though I've never used Beckett, even in '09.

[RogueHominid]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

Im still using Psycho's 3.2 with mixed results, but will play about 30 game before I make any decisions

I ran with these as well and the issue I was having was that with his set and the extra movement on every pitch, opposing pitchers became masters of paining the black and very rarely caught any plate at all.

If that set is gonna be used, I'd think CPU control and consistency would have to come down.

[RAZRr1275]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

do you use classic or meter Razer ?

Classic

Halladay is a tough one as he's typically going to throw a lot of first pitch strikes with any pitch and then just miss outside the zone but still close enough where you think you should swing. What I do to work the count against any pitcher is typically watch strike one unless it's in the meat of the zone and then expand the strike zone. With one strike I'll swing for any strike that isn't on the edge of the strike zone. Two strikes, it's time to battle.

I'm not a great hitter by any means though lol, usually average around 2 walks a game with 8-9 K's.

As for staying on topic, I've bumped the CPU's starter stamina up to 7 because I've been finding in general that the CPU's starters were gassing out too quick for my liking. Like 60 pitches and having maybe a third (probably closer to a quarter) of their stamina left.

If you don't mind could you post some numbers with cpu stamina at 7 just for comparison?

if your post was in response to my research... my last two paragraphs tried to put it in plain terms. the 'feel' of pettitte's effectiveness caps off at 90 pitches. i don't care how many innings it takes to get to 90 right now in my testing. It seems to be the case that in this game, when a pitcher's energy bar is empty, the guy's stuff falls off a cliff... especially when this particular pitcher's stuff in real life is as he describes himself 'a grinder'... maybe this type of pitcher cannot be translated into attributes well. He doesnt have any 'plus' pitches so when he gets to 90 pitches so far in my tests he's hittable, alarmingly more than he is after 90 pitches in real life. The guy gets outs in real life and maintains effectiveness / mph to 110 pitches... They don't let him go much more than that... but it feels like 95 pitches in this game now, could be him in real life after a theoretical 125 pitches... (I noticed his clutch rating was reduced by over 10% btw. not saying his SCEA was necessarily warranted or what the heck clutch does for a player in this game.)

my next tests will be after bumping the slider bar up 2 notches from what i had it at. I've been using psycho's all year.

And no complaints about Beckett's outing... was reporting his outings that is all. my next tests are for me to be Boston, vs NYY w/ the same set up, and see how long the CPU controls Pettitte, and I, Beckett... though I've never used Beckett, even in '09.

Yes he is a "grinder" but that irl is down to his willpower. He has the ability to go and make good pitches when he's entirely gassed. I've left that up to you in game. You could go 115 pitches in game with him. You just have to be more careful and work for it just as a pitcher would in real life.


Sidenote: For guys using 7 stamina can you post your stats also but specify what your using in something like this

Test Game - Bos vs NYY
Stamina: 5 User 7 CPU

and go from there just so that it's easier to sort data

Thanks

[RAZRr1275]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

I ran with these as well and the issue I was having was that with his set and the extra movement on every pitch, opposing pitchers became masters of paining the black and very rarely caught any plate at all.

If that set is gonna be used, I'd think CPU control and consistency would have to come down.

Yup, that's why I lowered them in my set. Pitchers have too much control on default with these and I wanted to make it more of a risk reward thing. You have larger break and a way higher chance for a K if your impatient but also a greater chance for walks which I found absent previously

[RAZRr1275]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

I'm finding this to be true as well, that's why I really like your cpu pitch settings - I'm starting to get 4-5 walks a game if I'm patient, although at the same time hitting can be much more challenging. on default I could usually sit on a straight fastball with 3-1 but with these that's not necessarily the case, so now my offensive output seems to be much more realistic. but like others here I find the user pitch settings less successful since my pitchers also seem to be getting gased a bit too early (also after 60-70 pitches or so). at the same time, my pitchers' ball-strike ratio is definitely more realistic than it was, it just seems like my pitcher gets gassed if he has just one somewhat shaky inning...

Have you tried upping stamina to 7?

[tbbucsfan001]

Re: RAZRr1275's Slider Suggestions for Full Minors Discussion

I played with these settings and the rest were on TNKNGM's sliders on All-Star with classic pitching. Tim Lincecum got pulled with 84 pitches, but he gave up back-to-back home runs. And John Maine got pulled with 81 pitches, and he was pitching a gem. I was using the Cardinals in both games.