Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

I would have been interested in recreating that same situation with Price, with manager hook at 0,1,2, or 3 just to see if that makes a difference and see if the AI would have left him in the game a little longer.

I do like Starter Stamina at 7 though. It seems to work well as pitchers begin to lose their stuff when they get around the 100 pitch mark.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

Nomo,

Do you have any new numbers with pitcher control at 7? Everything is looking great for me across the board except for walks. I'm seeing a few too many. 46 game sample and I'm at 3.8 per game overall. Once I switched to PC=7 it went to 3.67 per game. That is only over 18 games.

I know those are smaller samples than you provide, but it seems pitchers are having trouble finding the strike zone a lot. Especially frustrating when they have a big lead or a pitcher is at the plate. You see a lot of off speed pitches when the pitcher should be trying to fire fastballs into the strike zone.

I guess you see that in real life too though.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

Nomo,

Do you have any new numbers with pitcher control at 7? Everything is looking great for me across the board except for walks. I'm seeing a few too many. 46 game sample and I'm at 3.8 per game overall. Once I switched to PC=7 it went to 3.67 per game. That is only over 18 games.

I know those are smaller samples than you provide, but it seems pitchers are having trouble finding the strike zone a lot. Especially frustrating when they have a big lead or a pitcher is at the plate. You see a lot of off speed pitches when the pitcher should be trying to fire fastballs into the strike zone.

I guess you see that in real life too though.

Are you running games with a particular team?

I'm currently running AA games to see how the game balance is at that level, so I don't have the numbers for MLB games with Pitcher Control = 7. Walks are down there actually. Of course that's a combination of things, not just Pitcher Control...

Your walk number seems a tiny bit high compared to mine at PC = 10, but 3.5 - 3.6 isn't unreasonable; in fact low in 3.0s is relatively a new phenomenon with pitching becoming a bit more dominant lately.... With PC = 5, the walks were in that low range, so I wouldn't be concerned about it.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

Ok. Sounds good. Thanks. I'm not going to worry about it at the moment. I'm just playing right through every game on the Major League schedule...so no particular team.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

Ok. Sounds good. Thanks. I'm not going to worry about it at the moment. I'm just playing right through every game on the Major League schedule...so no particular team.

Actually the rest of sliders are also set similarly to my latest set, correct? Just curious if anything has actually been causing the walks to be a bit high for you.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

Yes. I'm pretty positive mine are exactly the same as yours for the games I've been watching. I think the only thing I have different is reliever stamina at 6, and base stealing at 8. The batter-pitcher confrontation is exactly the same.

I will say I managed a few games and I think I tend to intentionally walk more batters in late game situations than the AI does. That would only be couple more walks here or there to add to the average though.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

I think I'm going to bump pitcher control up to 8 and see if I notice any subtle difference.

I played out 2 games tonight that I watched closely. One was a game with Detroit and Boston where the starting pitchers pitched well. Only 4 walks total in the game both teams combined.

Then it was Atlanta and the Mets. Minor for the Braves started out struggling. Walked 4 batters in the first inning. The Braves ended up walking 7 men total in the game, while the Mets walked 4. One was an intentional walk.

Minor walked in a run in the first inning. Then later in the game the closer Kimbrel walked a run in too.

It seemed pitchers for both teams got to a lot of deep counts. A few times the batter bailed out the pitcher by swinging at 3-1 or even 3-0 counts.

I try not to read anything into one result, but I have seen this often where a starting pitcher or a new reliever coming in just can't find the zone. This is probably tied to the confidence stuff and the run surges in the first inning as well.

While having these lapses in control need to happen from time to time, I think the pitching overall just has a slight bit of a 'sloppy' feel.

This is really noticable in National League games with the pitcher batting. Many times it seems those at bats last longer than they should, in my opinion.

[thevaliantx]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

Some things that I'm noticing with this slider set are:

* too many throws from the outfield look more like lobs, throws to the plate aren't even close and with great outfielders runners should be thrown from time to time trying to steal

* cpu never tries to pick off the runners

* very few wild pitches, still too few passed balls

* only ONE hit-by-pitch in probably ten games or so using these sliders, HBP's are much more common than that in real life.

* not seeing any balls bounce off the bags, though gamers claim they see this happening with other sliders sets.

* maybe too few strikeouts with great pitchers

Other than that, things look great. I was telling my wife this morning that the last time I played this many games in a season with a baseball game (I'm 20-15 with my Reds in MOM) was when I completed a season in Super Bases Loaded II, waaaaaaaayyyy back in the day ;-)

By the way, those were the days when I combed my hair back to try and keep it out of my face, now I just comb it forward to keep away the age ;-)

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

I think I'm going to bump pitcher control up to 8 and see if I notice any subtle difference.

I played out 2 games tonight that I watched closely. One was a game with Detroit and Boston where the starting pitchers pitched well. Only 4 walks total in the game both teams combined.

Then it was Atlanta and the Mets. Minor for the Braves started out struggling. Walked 4 batters in the first inning. The Braves ended up walking 7 men total in the game, while the Mets walked 4. One was an intentional walk.

Minor walked in a run in the first inning. Then later in the game the closer Kimbrel walked a run in too.

It seemed pitchers for both teams got to a lot of deep counts. A few times the batter bailed out the pitcher by swinging at 3-1 or even 3-0 counts.

I try not to read anything into one result, but I have seen this often where a starting pitcher or a new reliever coming in just can't find the zone. This is probably tied to the confidence stuff and the run surges in the first inning as well.

While having these lapses in control need to happen from time to time, I think the pitching overall just has a slight bit of a 'sloppy' feel.

This is really noticeable in National League games with the pitcher batting. Many times it seems those at bats last longer than they should, in my opinion.

I think it's a matter of opinion if the pitchers in general are "sloppier" than they are in real life, since (at least in my testing) the total number of walks are pretty much in line with the MLB ave.

But I do agree with your observation that pitchers just coming in tend to be erratic (i.e., confidence isn't where it should be at), and quite often so, and I agree that's largely why they tend to give up more runs in the 1st (starter), 6th (reliever relieving starter), and 9th (closer) innings in my initial testing.

My reason for bumping up Pitcher Control was to alleviate that. I think there's some evidence it did help, but not sure as to what the extent... But I can definitely say increasing Pitcher Control does reduce walks by pitchers throwing more strikes, so I'm not sure why you aren't seeing the same thing.

If you prefer tighter game, then you may also consider bringing Pitcher Consistency back to 5. Even with these sliders at default, you'll see around 2.5 - 3.0 walks, which is less than IRL but still realistic. In the Japanese league for example, that's about the average for the whole league.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

Some things that I'm noticing with this slider set are:

* too many throws from the outfield look more like lobs, throws to the plate aren't even close and with great outfielders runners should be thrown from time to time trying to steal I guess that's a compromise that I made by making throws from outfield generally weaker *for average outfielder.* I wish I could maintain the dynamic range (i.e., best arms can throw much better even if I lower the Fielder Arm Strength slider), but that's not how the slider works.


* cpu never tries to pick off the runners In pure CPU vs. CPU games they do. I think there may be a glitch or something in MoM...


* very few wild pitches, still too few passed balls Actually, passed balls are right in line with the MLB ave for a long time. Yes for fewer wild pitches than IRL. We could increase more by lowering Pitcher Consistency, but that will have a side effect of more walks and sloppier pitching (plus more hit by pitches), and I wouldn't like that...


* only ONE hit-by-pitch in probably ten games or so using these sliders, HBP's are much more common than that in real life. Ditto as above....


* not seeing any balls bounce off the bags, though gamers claim they see this happening with other sliders sets. You mean the batted ball hitting 1B, 2B, or 3B? I've seen this happen a couple times, so it does happen, but such an event shouldn't happen that often anyways... If it does, people will start complaining as they do for hits up in the middle hitting pitchers too often.


* maybe too few strikeouts with great pitchers I'd agree with this, but I want to see if this still is the case for this year's game. When K/9 and K-related ratings are maxed out, I'd like to see more whiffs. I couldn't do that in 11, but I'm yet to test it specifically this year.

But looking at the leader boards, there are several pitchers with K/9 > 9, so it's not like it's impossible to have decent strikeout pitchers.

On average, Ks are fine though. It's just that great strikeout pitchers aren't necessarily great at getting Ks, contact pitchers aren't getting a bit more Ks, etc. It's a dynamic range thing.




Other than that, things look great. I was telling my wife this morning that the last time I played this many games in a season with a baseball game (I'm 20-15 with my Reds in MOM) was when I completed a season in Super Bases Loaded II, waaaaaaaayyyy back in the day ;-)

By the way, those were the days when I combed my hair back to try and keep it out of my face, now I just comb it forward to keep away the age ;-) Well I'm thinking of shaving all the way to fight a similar aging process.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

I think it's a matter of opinion if the pitchers in general are "sloppier" than they are in real life, since (at least in my testing) the total number of walks are pretty much in line with the MLB ave.

But I do agree with your observation that pitchers just coming in tend to be erratic (i.e., confidence isn't where it should be at), and quite often so, and I agree that's largely why they tend to give up more runs in the 1st (starter), 6th (reliever relieving starter), and 9th (closer) innings in my initial testing.

My reason for bumping up Pitcher Control was to alleviate that. I think there's some evidence it did help, but not sure as to what the extent... But I can definitely say increasing Pitcher Control does reduce walks by pitchers throwing more strikes, so I'm not sure why you aren't seeing the same thing.

If you prefer tighter game, then you may also consider bringing Pitcher Consistency back to 5. Even with these sliders at default, you'll see around 2.5 - 3.0 walks, which is less than IRL but still realistic. In the Japanese league for example, that's about the average for the whole league.

I think I am getting more into a 'personal preference' thing with the Pitcher Control. I think I tend to want to see more of a lower scoring game, than a high scoring affair. The steroid era really bothered me.

I don't want things to get too out of line stats wise though.

I almost mentioned in my previous post that I knew we had dropped Pitcher Consistency to 4, so I'm glad you brought that up.

Overall, I think this game looks so realistic, that you tend to watch it like you are watching a real baseball game.

While the stats don't really back me up, I think a lot of times I just think to myself "Man, this pitcher can't find the strike zone!".

I think it is most noticable when a pitcher is at the plate or a team has a larger lead. Realistically, you would really just focus on throwing strikes in these situations, as opposed to trying to nibble the corners.

Maybe the AI doesn't really know the difference in those situations though.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

...

While the stats don't really back me up, I think a lot of times I just think to myself "Man, this pitcher can't find the strike zone!".

I think it is most noticable when a pitcher is at the plate or a team has a larger lead. Realistically, you would really just focus on throwing strikes in these situations, as opposed to trying to nibble the corners.

Maybe the AI doesn't really know the difference in those situations though.

I think that might be true... that AI manager/pitcher probably isn't (micro)managing based on the situation as much as it could. Against a pitcher hitting, he doesn't have to nibble as much as he does right now...

But you should also remember our habit to remember what's memorable... Walking a pitcher is so bad that as soon as a pitcher start falling behind, you go "oh man... throw strikes!!" and if it ends up in a 4- or 5-pitch walk, we tend to remember and magnify the situation, while 8/9 out of 10 times the pitcher isn't getting on base.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

I think that might be true... that AI manager/pitcher probably isn't (micro)managing based on the situation as much as it could. Against a pitcher hitting, he doesn't have to nibble as much as he does right now...

But you should also remember our habit to remember what's memorable... Walking a pitcher is so bad that as soon as a pitcher start falling behind, you go "oh man... throw strikes!!" and if it ends up in a 4- or 5-pitch walk, we tend to remember and magnify the situation, while 8/9 out of 10 times the pitcher isn't getting on base.

You are absolutely right about remembering those memorable moments. That's why we always need to look back at the stats.

For some reason, my walks have been slightly up, so I guess that's what pointed me in the direction anyway. I'm going to bump pitcher control up to 8 and keep everything else as is for a bit. I should be able to get in quite a few games over the weekend.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

You are absolutely right about remembering those memorable moments. That's why we always need to look back at the stats.

For some reason, my walks have been slightly up, so I guess that's what pointed me in the direction anyway. I'm going to bump pitcher control up to 8 and keep everything else as is for a bit. I should be able to get in quite a few games over the weekend.

Yeah, please let me know if the walks stay up or not.

[mbarr403]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 12 Version]

I'm impressed by the effort you've put into these. Kudos!

Is this set available for download from the Vault?