Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I do not think that IF anything is happening, that it is along the lines of old school Ken Griffey Jr. baseball and the pitch is actually moving in the air. Rather I think that possibly some type of input is being accepted during the actual windup and prior to release. I think too many people in Armor's thread thought that this was mid-air ball control, which I absolutely agree would never be in this game.

I would agree though that in code there would be 3 things going on.
1. Pitch selection and location.
2. Wind up and any user input determined (amount of time holding down X for classic).
3. Take all that information along with the pitcher's information and throw it into the algorithm to determine where the ball ends up.

It is step 2 that I think something could possibly be going on, even the possibility that a single frame delay or something seemingly arbitrary is bleeding over from step 1 to 2 and when I get on the stick immediately after X it reads this input. The issue is, they have SO many variables going on (which is definitely a good thing), that it is very hard to tell what is happening. Confidence I feel plays a huge role, so even attempting to test these things it is nearly impossible to get identical situations with so many different variables coming into play.

Also, just something fun to add about the night/day game situation. If anyone can remember a couple years ago now when Josh Hamilton had insane night numbers, but struggled on sunny days because of those baby blue's, those are exactly the types of things that could get added and we never know about.

Obviously we can assume any exposed variable, like contact, power, speed, etc, are being used in algorithms and playing their role in determining results, but what other types of hidden influences could they possibly have (Josh Hamilton -5 contact on night games )? I have no clue how open SCEA is with this information, but I have worked on a competing baseball game and I know we had pieces of information that were not made public (an example being home games giving slight ratings boost to players or pitcher/batter matchups giving slight boosts to the determined "victor" of previous at bats on a per-game basis). It is these "hidden" factors, along with the sheer volume of the open ones, that make these games so dynamic, but also incredibly hard to truly determine what is going on.

With all that being said, this year's game is still the best baseball game I have ever played. Even if there is something there with this classic pitching (quite possibly even in all pitching methods if it is an issue between steps 1 and 2), just do not touch the stick after you throw the pitch. I have been doing this for a couple year's now as it felt like something was going on for me personally. Only reason I even got involved with this conversation was because a couple of other guys mentioned they also felt like something was there, and I was like "alright, maybe I am not crazy" ha.

You worked on a competitor's baseball game? Color me intrigued!

[ILiveForThis]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

glad that this thread is back. of course, as always, i am using classic pitching this year and (as always) am having a blast. the interface alone doesn't feel *much* different but i feel like some mechanical things are a bit different.

i'm still getting my first batch of games in (i play A LOT of different matchups before i start my franchise - call it my version of spring training) but everything has been statistically very, very good.

i'm all-in on quick counts this year - love the feature so, so much. i feel like i can still have that 'every at-bat is different' feeling even when quick counts is on and with the amount of 1-1 counts we get, i can still battle and grind with every pitch.

i've found more success this year with pitches OFF the plate when it comes to swings and misses but this also has came with a new found approach to pitching for me; commitment.

if the designated location is in, commit in. by that i mean, make sure that pitch GETS in and don't let it be anywhere else. you want that slider to bite off to the dirt/outer edge? give it that extra "20%" effort and make sure it gets over there. i've used less "taps" this year when pitching but that doesn't mean i don't use them either.

more on me later... glad y'all are here/back. here's too another year.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

glad that this thread is back. of course, as always, i am using classic pitching this year and (as always) am having a blast. the interface alone doesn't feel *much* different but i feel like some mechanical things are a bit different.

i'm still getting my first batch of games in (i play A LOT of different matchups before i start my franchise - call it my version of spring training) but everything has been statistically very, very good.

i'm all-in on quick counts this year - love the feature so, so much. i feel like i can still have that 'every at-bat is different' feeling even when quick counts is on and with the amount of 1-1 counts we get, i can still battle and grind with every pitch.

i've found more success this year with pitches OFF the plate when it comes to swings and misses but this also has came with a new found approach to pitching for me; commitment.

if the designated location is in, commit in. by that i mean, make sure that pitch GETS in and don't let it be anywhere else. you want that slider to bite off to the dirt/outer edge? give it that extra "20%" effort and make sure it gets over there. i've used less "taps" this year when pitching but that doesn't mean i don't use them either.

more on me later... glad y'all are here/back. here's too another year.

Welcome back, IL4T.

Not sure if you saw my thread over in general but how are your K's with QC's?

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

You worked on a competitor's baseball game? Color me intrigued!

NO ONE COMPETES WITH THE SHOW! NO ONE!

Kidding haha, I am curious also but was worried if it was not okay to ask.

This is strange but I am young enough that I have never played any other baseball game besides The Shows. (excluding arcade stuff, like on iPad) I was seven when the first one came out!

Anyone else use Baseball America Prospect Handbooks? I find them useful as top prospects from say 2012 to 2014 seem to be young rising players still. Plus just kinda cool to see a 2012 prospect now a full time big leaguer. They are priceless as a fan of the actaual game.

Also if anyone collects autographs let me know and we can exchange or I can hook you up if you are missing certain guys. Mostly guys who spring train in AZ or any young guys who played fall ball from 2009 to present. I attend tons and tons of spring training and get almost everyone who is willing to sign. Have everything from broken bats to balls, and batting gloves. If anyone has a Ken Jr game bat that is signed, I have a game used Posey bat (cracked but not broken with ball marks and all) signed by the whole World Series squad including base coaches I will trade for it. Bat is from 2012 but he still uses same weight and model. The signatures are from spring games and Dbacks games, the whole squad is on there but did not sign it at one sitting or during the series so different pens and stuff are used. Note it is harder and harder to get signed bats as some stadiums will not let you carry them in anymore.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

LOL! I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't ask!

Plenty of Devs and QA people from various products post on OS and of course they make this a much better place to belong to. Their insight is invaluable.

[Hanoble]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

LOL! I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't ask!

Plenty of Devs and QA people from various products post on OS and of course they make this a much better place to belong to. Their insight is invaluable.

Ha, there is no issue with asking. I worked on a RECENT competitor's title, it should not be too hard to decipher it from there with the state of baseball games (I will give you a hint, it starts with 2K ). It was a great experience for me professionally and being a huge sports fan I loved it, but I will admit that my free copies often times remained in wrapper or gifted in favor of The Show. One thing I will say is that Be a Pro mode in 2K games is head and shoulders above the "pro" modes other games are trying to do.

More than anything though, I mentioned it to better give insight as to how a bug like this could exist within The Show and remain there for years without even being noticed. I got the feeling from Armor's thread that people feeling like there was an issue were almost getting ganged up on and flat out told "NO, never you are wrong be quiet". I work in code databases of multiple projects daily (not on a sports title anymore though ), and people would be shocked at the number of bugs, known issues, legacy code, etc, that exist.

It is not a matter of people not caring, but more of just simply not enough time or resources to get everything perfect. Unfortunately, it is typical in this industry for one crunch to lead into another and a known issue you meant to fix gets knocked down the priority list until the post it note you wrote on is gone and entirely forgot about. Until of course a year, two, or three later when you stumble back on it and go "aha, I remember you old friend".

I cannot speak for other developers, but I have visited this site before, during, and after my time working on titles discussed here and I always found it very interesting what people would figure out, surmise, or just flat out mistake to be fact. I come here first and foremost as a sports fan and gamer (typically looking for some sliders or rosters (RIP NCAA)), but if I can lend my professional experience and help people here, I am certainly willing to do that.

[Jr.]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I'm glad you mentioned the strikezone/LS vibration because this is a very important part of the interface and your success/failure will rely on how you interact with the strikezone itself.

Aiming the cursor to a vibration point definitely impacts pitch accuracy. This is why I largely aim the ball in points of the zone that don't rumble a good chunk of the time. Player ratings will move the ball closer to the black/further in the zone on their own. Aiming to the corner too often (IE nibbling) will be your biggest downfall if you're not careful.

Now, once my confidence is up, all bets are off! At that point my control is so good that I can embarrass fools with perfectly placed pitches. Sometimes aiming the ball to the vibration points is very sound strategy so you have to kind of choose which approach is best for the situation at hand.

This is interesting. I've never noticed this, and I almost exclusively pitch on the edges of the strike zone.

It doesn't really make any sense to me why that would affect accuracy of the pitch. Obviously, you're going to throw more balls pitching on the edges, but I don't think the rate of error is any larger.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

This is interesting. I've never noticed this, and I almost exclusively pitch on the edges of the strike zone.

It doesn't really make any sense to me why that would affect accuracy of the pitch. Obviously, you're going to throw more balls pitching on the edges, but I don't think the rate of error is any larger.

No guarantee here. But my opinion is that when say pitching low and away with a 2seamer, everyone is not Greg Maddux thus some have greater vibration when placing the pitch there indicating they may miss their spot. Vs. Aiming it just slightly down and away no vibration and then out of the zone crazy vibration.

In pitching practice with pitch icons on, it is obvious that some pitchers have a larger zero vibration pitch location. Also, try placing a curve inside the zone but top corner, it vibrates more than a slider placed out of the zone on break side.

All I know is vibration rate varies per pitcher and pitch and zone being aimed at, but all vibrate inside the zone. And of course all vibrate if aimed outside strike zone. 4seamer dead middle never vibrates and you can always hit the spot. To me this says vibration means possibility of missing, greater vibration greater possibility. This is just observation from hours upon hours in pitching practice.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

This is interesting. I've never noticed this, and I almost exclusively pitch on the edges of the strike zone.

It doesn't really make any sense to me why that would affect accuracy of the pitch. Obviously, you're going to throw more balls pitching on the edges, but I don't think the rate of error is any larger.

Thanks for the feedback.

My experience with the interface has resulted in a pretty clear picture that balls aimed outside of the vibration point are largely less reliable than ones aimed inside it, but this is an observation of mine which noting has has helped me succeed. Which is ultimately what this thread is about.

I started (and when I didn't I participated largely in) these threads because several years ago, I begged SCEA for a tutorial on how Classic Pitching worked because I was frustrated that an interface so simple could be such a huge enigma without any kind of tutorial or explanation of any kind being available.

So I praciticed and studied and made it a mission to share my observations to help others that were struggling just like I used to. Hint: Do a search on people mystified by Classic. There's a lot of them.

Being a former Community Day invitee, I should be more careful in labeling my observations as such and not label them as facts. I never had a chance to ask about this specific topic.

But I'm certain in what I'm seeing so I share these things with people as a PSA of sorts. But you are correct. This is my opinion and I easily could be wrong or at least proven as such.

Thanks for the note.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

No guarantee here. But my opinion is that when say pitching low and away with a 2seamer, everyone is not Greg Maddux thus some have greater vibration when placing the pitch there indicating they may miss their spot. Vs. Aiming it just slightly down and away no vibration and then out of the zone crazy vibration.

In pitching practice with pitch icons on, it is obvious that some pitchers have a larger zero vibration pitch location. Also, try placing a curve inside the zone but top corner, it vibrates more than a slider placed out of the zone on break side.

All I know is vibration rate varies per pitcher and pitch and zone being aimed at, but all vibrate inside the zone. And of course all vibrate if aimed outside strike zone. 4seamer dead middle never vibrates and you can always hit the spot. To me this says vibration means possibility of missing, greater vibration greater possibility. This is just observation from hours upon hours in pitching practice.

And to add to this, as well as my previous post, notice how the vibration points within the zone increase as your pitcher tires and his confidence and stamina decreases.

It pretty clearly to me indicates that pitches within the vibration are much harder to control but as I said, I'm willing to be proven wrong.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

Thanks for the feedback.

My experience with the interface has resulted in a pretty clear picture that balls aimed outside of the vibration point are largely less reliable than ones aimed inside it, but this is an observation of mine which noting has has helped me succeed. Which is ultimately what this thread is about.

I started (and when I didn't I participated largely in) these threads because several years ago, I begged SCEA for a tutorial on how Classic Pitching worked because I was frustrated that an interface so simple could be such a huge enigma without any kind of tutorial or explanation of any kind being available.

So I praciticed and studied and made it a mission to share my observations to help others that were struggling just like I used to. Hint: Do a search on people mystified by Classic. There's a lot of them.

Being a former Community Day invitee, I should be more careful in labeling my observations as such and not label them as facts. I never had a chance to ask about this specific topic.

But I'm certain in what I'm seeing so I share these things with people as a PSA of sorts. But you are correct. This is my opinion and I easily could be wrong or at least proven as such.

Thanks for the note.

I like you stayed silent for a long spell until recently. I now feel I found at least what works for me. The interface is not explained and I agree it takes tons of time to learn.

I too found that as you stated the low to no vibration locations shrink with fatigue and do to me seem to affect location consistency and accuracy.

One thing to note is slightly moving say a sweeping curve down and away places it on the lower corner black. So, good pitchers can hit the corners without vibration upon setting location.

To me the biggest and only way to understand this vibration location stuff is practicing with classic pitch and then trail pitch icons set on. (I play franchise without the pitching icons on because I like the greater challenge) Then one knows exactly where the vibration begins. Again some guys can put a pitch in a low outside corner and others can not without a slight vibration.

Hero, I believe you have this dead on in how you explained it. As soon as reading your posts on this, it was like yep that is what happens and the way to explain it.

I would be sceptical of this except every pitcher is different and the vibration within the zone varies and fatigue affects the no vibration zone size. Also none of this means a pitcher can not hit a location dead on even if it is placed in a vibration location. They are just less consistent in doing so. And of course some pitch types obviously miss locations more than other type pitches.

Like Hero just my opinion and what works for me. The less velocity and location vibration the better early innings go. Of course once confidence fills and if a lead is had things change. And obviously changing up locations matters, just like real life predictabillity in pitching is bad for a pitcher. Exluding maybe Rivera's cutter and Wainwright's curve. Some pitches are so nasty the catcher could call for it with a blow-horn and most mortals could not hit it.

All ball players may not be mere mortals though, as once said in regard to The Say Hey Kid.
"The first thing one must come to realise about him (Willie Mays), is that he actually exists."

[KingV2k3]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I have always used Classic Pitching in consort with API: Default on All Star...

On that level, you go with the catcher's call on pitch and side of the plate location...but the "virtual glove" that shows exact desired location is invisible...it only shows up on the lower levels...

Any other takers on this approach?

Do you think that the API Catcher's call gives an advantage to the HUM controlled pitcher?

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I have always used Classic Pitching in consort with API: Default on All Star...

On that level, you go with the catcher's call on pitch and side of the plate location...but the "virtual glove" that shows exact desired location is invisible...it only shows up on the lower levels...

Any other takers on this approach?

Do you think that the API Catcher's call gives an advantage to the HUM controlled pitcher?

I play All-Star as well and go by catchers hand singles. I do sometimes "shake him off" when it just seems another pitch maybe is better.

I think the API is pretty useful. Like you I play with the "virtual glove" not visible as it seems to take away from the game. I do have some tips if anyone wants to turn API off and still let catcher call your game.

They are not certainties just what I have expierienced. I will find them and post them shortly.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I keep the API on and use the suggestions probably 90+% of the time. I can't really say if it makes the game easier or not. I guess it depends on how good you are at calling your own game.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

Like many I play with pitch calling off. This takes away the glove icon and pitch selection flash.

The catcher however, still uses finger calls and sometimes taps a thigh or knee asking for a pitch on that side. Or his glove indicating keep it in the zone. (My opinions not set facts)

As Armor and Swords noted
1 finger = X
2 fingers = O
3 fingers =△
4 fingers = ▢

I believe:
4 fingers flashed/shaken = R1

If you have a fifth pitch shaking 4 fingers or 4 fingers then hand closed 4 again is asking for that pitch (pitch five R1). I could be wrong about the game but in softball if a girl I am catching has five pitches (*note) , I was taught the following.

1 = fastball
2 = usually rise ball
3 = change
4 = breaking ball
4 flashed twice or shaken = sinker or second style change

This is because you NEVER EVER should use your thumb calling pitches as it can be used to indicate location. Though it is simply not used at all in The Show., which is as it should really be.

If you notice in the game sometimes they flash four/shake it. I think this is indicating pitch five. Because sometimes you get just a regular four called.
I could be completely wrong. This is just a thought as that would mirror exactly what I was taught as a catcher. Though again I play softball and all catchers do not use the exact same calls. Though what I listed is pretty standard and was same from USA youth camp and University of Arizona Camp (Jennie Finch was there and if have kids in AZ it is the best softball camp ever!) and my High School team coaches do it the same.

Also tapping the thigh is calling for the pitch that side but in the zone. Tapping the knee is pitch that side out of the zone. Or so it goes as I was taught. What it could mean in the game is low or high but that should not be the case as height should be determined by what the pitch is and where the catcher places their glove. Examples: A fastball could be either high or low and would not be called but known by glove placement. A change is always low!
Since you pick a spot in game the glove placement is determined by you. Thus I believe thigh is that side in zone, knee is that side out of zone attempting to get hitter to chase, just as we do it in U19 softabll.

Again I am not certain about all this just what I think and what would seem to make sense from my quest (hours and hours of just practicing and trying things) to have the best pitching rotation possible.