Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

[KingV2k3]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I believe: 4 fingers flashed/shaken = R1

If you have a fifth pitch shaking 4 fingers or 4 fingers then hand closed 4 again is asking for that pitch (pitch five R1). I could be wrong about the game but in softball if a girl I am catching has five pitches (*note) , I was taught the following.

1 = fastball
2 = usually rise ball
3 = change
4 = breaking ball
4 flashed twice or shaken = sinker or second style change

If you notice in the game sometimes they flash four/shake it. I think this is indicating pitch five. Because sometimes you get just a regular four called.
I could be completely wrong. This is just a thought as that would mirror exactly what I was taught as a catcher.

Also tapping the thigh is calling for the pitch that side but in the zone. Tapping the knee is pitch that side out of the zone. Or so it goes as I was taught. What it could mean in the game is low or high but that should not be the case as height should be determined by what the pitch is and where the catcher places their glove. Examples: A fastball could be either high or low and would not be called but known by glove placement. A change is always low!

AWESOME POST!

Right or wrong, I'm def going to incorporate the "4 fingers shaken" pitch selection and "thigh tap / knee tap" location suggestions into my play style...

I use the "clean screen" like A&S, so there's no flashing icon, etc...I read the catcher's signs...

Also:

I used to think that the clenched fist was for Pitch #5 OR possibly just a fastball thrown HARD...

Any thoughts on the clenched fist?

Thanks!!!

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

It is hard to say what amount of animation is pitch calling by the catcher and just cosmetic animation from the art department.

Like when a three say curve is called for a right handed pitcher. If the catcher taps left thigh then right, this would mean he wants it to start outside of the zone left and break across the plate into the zone.

I am pretty sure some of itis just animation though and these type calls are not being made. Yet, they do not seem to ever ask for something impossible. Example right hander throwing a slider tap right thight then left. This would mean start out of zone and break back in against the break. But they never ask for this. As far as I have seen, all catcher animated pitch calls can be followed.

Not sure what will happen if they are all followed but I will start a new franchise (not willing to risk it on my current one as we may make the playoffs) and let my catcher call all pitches and do what he asks according to my understanding of pitch calling.

If they call anything that is simply not possible, example calls that ask for a pitch to break the wrong way, it will confirm this is just animations. So, far all location asks are specific to pitch break and handedness but I have only the last say ten games really been watching more than just the number of fingers.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

AWESOME POST!

Right or wrong, I'm def going to incorporate the "4 fingers shaken" pitch selection and "thigh tap / knee tap" location suggestions into my play style...

Also:

I used to think that the clenched fist was for Pitch #5 OR possibly just a fastball thrown HARD...

Any thoughts on the clenched fist?

Thanks!!!

Welcome and let me know your results!

Clenched would seem like fifth pitch. But it seems more used when in fastball counts. It also is not called a lot but you may be onto something! Fifth pitch should be least called for pitch in theory. Also, sometimes they kinda shake the 3 which sort of confuses me. Many of them they point down with which could suggest location. Like a 1 then he motions down but keeps one held. I see it mostly when X is the sinker which kinda makes sense.

Again, I maybe am hoping they programed something into the game that might be way too advanced. Also, I did ask my catching coach on this and he told me pitch calling is not always universal and especially in the MLB. That said the programers could have gone with the most basic general used style.

I am pretty sure the thigh tap means keep it in the zone in game anyhow. Cause they only tap the knee asking for outside the zone when you are well ahead in the count, a chase situation.

I will test throwing hard fastballs when a fist. Also if we ever get the fist when a pitcher with no fifth pitch is on the mound we will know for sure. Because I have never had a four asked for when a pitcher with three pitcches was on the mound. I specifically watched for it because if it happened, well then the hand signs are just random animations... But so far nothing impossible like a four from someone who does not have it has occurd.

Like you, I go with pitch calling even if I am wrong about it. It makes the game fun and feel real. Never been shelled from it so far. Of course I sometimes shake them off. As real pitchers do, to the sorrow of us backstops.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

If you have a fifth pitch shaking 4 fingers or 4 fingers then hand closed 4 again is asking for that pitch (pitch five R1). I could be wrong about the game but in softball if a girl I am catching has five pitches (*note) , I was taught the following.

Are you female? I know you mentioned kids and things so perhaps you're a coach or a parent? Not that it matters in the slightest, I was just wondering because if OS (the best site ever) is lacking ONE thing, it's the female perspective on video games.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

Are you female? I know you mentioned kids and things so perhaps you're a coach or a parent? Not that it matters in the slightest, I was just wondering because if OS (the best site ever) is lacking ONE thing, it's the female perspective on video games.

No worries at all. I am a girl and play travelling, club and High School softball as a catcher and on occassion middleinfielder. But the older I get pretty much only catcher which is okay, though I sometimes miss practicing double plays and stuff.

I was just mentioning kids, as the University of Arizona Softball Camp is awesome for kids. As are any of the USA sponsored ones. I went every year until last. I was playing club travelling tournaments or would have went again. I think I can go this summer but I am 17 now and maybe am aged out. Plus will hoepfully play travelling ball again.

I kinda never tell people I am a girl because sometimes they think I do not really know baseball then. (0f course I have a ton to still learn regardless of gender, it is a game that takes a lifetime to understand in my opinion) But I really am a fanatic fan and go to lots of DBacks games since we moved to AZ. I stood Scouting guides and minor league and major league stats, it is a blast to be like yeah I recall Tulow when he was in AAA playing fall ball. My Dad has been taking me to spring training since I was too little to recall. Now we live here and go to as many games as possible. Also fall ball. Baseball/softball is kinda the only thing in life that makes sense to me.

I like other sports and video game wise play FIFA and some NBA 2k but stink it up at the basketball. The Show is by far my favorite and the only game I own on PS4. I used to play NCAA football dynasties with my pops but of course the game is no more.

Hopefully someday I can be a softball scout or coach (would prefer scouting). Obviously I would prefer baseball but not sure anyone would give a girl scout a shot. So, The Show is probably as close to the game as I will ever get besides spectating of course.

Thank you for being kind and also all others who at least give my thoughts the time to read them. I know when talking pitching in The Show, I am possibly hoping for advanced stuff that is simply not there. But it at least seems to be.

"You always get a special kick on opening day, no matter how many you go through. You look forward to it like a birthday party when you're a kid. You think something wonderful is going to happen."
Joe Dimaggio

Just like Joltin' Joe but only for me absolutely every game is like that....

p.s. maybe my posts are so long because I am a girl and talk a lot lol haha sorry if anyone is annoyed, I will try to keep them shorter.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

No worries at all. I am a girl and play travelling, club and High School softball as a catcher and on occassion middleinfielder. But the older I get pretty much only catcher which is okay, though I sometimes miss practicing double plays and stuff.

I was just mentioning kids, as the University of Arizona Softball Camp is awesome for kids. As are any of the USA sponsored ones. I went every year until last. I was playing club travelling tournaments or would have went again. I think I can go this summer but I am 17 now and maybe am aged out. Plus will hoepfully play travelling ball again.

I kinda never tell people I am a girl because sometimes they think I do not really know baseball then. (0f course I have a ton to still learn regardless of gender, it is a game that takes a lifetime to understand in my opinion) But I really am a fanatic fan and go to lots of DBacks games since we moved to AZ. I stood Scouting guides and minor league and major league stats, it is a blast to be like yeah I recall Tulow when he was in AAA playing fall ball. My Dad has been taking me to spring training since I was too little to recall. Now we live here and go to as many games as possible. Also fall ball. Baseball/softball is kinda the only thing in life that makes sense to me.

I like other sports and video game wise play FIFA and some NBA 2k but stink it up at the basketball. The Show is by far my favorite and the only game I own on PS4. I used to play NCAA football dynasties with my pops but of course the game is no more.

Hopefully someday I can be a softball scout or coach (would prefer scouting). Obviously I would prefer baseball but not sure anyone would give a girl scout a shot. So, The Show is probably as close to the game as I will ever get besides spectating of course.

Thank you for being kind and also all others who at least give my thoughts the time to read them. I know when talking pitching in The Show, I am possibly hoping for advanced stuff that is simply not there. But it at least seems to be.

"You always get a special kick on opening day, no matter how many you go through. You look forward to it like a birthday party when you're a kid. You think something wonderful is going to happen."
Joe Dimaggio

Just like Joltin' Joe but only for me absolutely every game is like that....

p.s. maybe my posts are so long because I am a girl and talk a lot lol haha sorry if anyone is annoyed, I will try to keep them shorter.

Thanks for the bio!

And please don't shorten your posts! As I said in the intro, this is pretty much an analysis thread that I prefer get tucked away in the slider area (for various reasons).

Questions, analysis, tips, tricks, insights on life, etc. It's all welcome here.

[Hanoble]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

Clenched would seem like fifth pitch. But it seems more used when in fastball counts. It also is not called a lot but you may be onto something! Fifth pitch should be least called for pitch in theory. Also, sometimes they kinda shake the 3 which sort of confuses me. Many of them they point down with which could suggest location. Like a 1 then he motions down but keeps one held. I see it mostly when X is the sinker which kinda makes sense.

Again, I maybe am hoping they programed something into the game that might be way too advanced. Also, I did ask my catching coach on this and he told me pitch calling is not always universal and especially in the MLB. That said the programers could have gone with the most basic general used style.

Hopefully someday I can be a softball scout or coach (would prefer scouting). Obviously I would prefer baseball but not sure anyone would give a girl scout a shot. So, The Show is probably as close to the game as I will ever get besides spectating of course.

I would almost guarantee the pitch call and location animations are linked with their respective pitches and calls, not simply random animations. One way to test it would be to turn on the API and note what the catcher calls and then hit R2 to actually see what he is calling for. At work so cannot do it myself, but I would be VERY surprised if the animations were not specific to pitch and location. I myself tend to not pay as much attention to the catcher as I probably should, I try to play very fast paced games though with fast play on to get through a couple seasons, but the little bit I have paid attention they seem to be realistic to me.

About being a woman scout someday, I would tell you the same as my own girls, go for it! I will not sit here and tell you the path will be easy or that some people will not instantly discredit you, but there is absolutely no reason why a woman cannot be every bit as talented as a scout/coach or any other type of evaluator/mentor as a man - ABSOLUTELY ZERO. It sounds like you already have a much more significant background and passion for the game than most people, that passion and drive alone will carry you further than most. Also, the landscape for women in sports has recently began to change. We have women athletes every bit as dominant as their male counterparts, women referees in major sports, and I would not be surprised if their were women scouts in the MLB. If it is your dream, you owe it to yourself to go for it!

[RoyceDa59]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I think this thread is becoming my favorite thread on the whole site, please everyone keep up these solid discussions and analysis, I am enjoying every bit of it!

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I would almost guarantee the pitch call and location animations are linked with their respective pitches and calls, not simply random animations. One way to test it would be to turn on the API and note what the catcher calls and then hit R2 to actually see what he is calling for. At work so cannot do it myself, but I would be VERY surprised if the animations were not specific to pitch and location. I myself tend to not pay as much attention to the catcher as I probably should, I try to play very fast paced games though with fast play on to get through a couple seasons, but the little bit I have paid attention they seem to be realistic to me.

About being a woman scout someday, I would tell you the same as my own girls, go for it! I will not sit here and tell you the path will be easy or that some people will not instantly discredit you, but there is absolutely no reason why a woman cannot be every bit as talented as a scout/coach or any other type of evaluator/mentor as a man - ABSOLUTELY ZERO. It sounds like you already have a much more significant background and passion for the game than most people, that passion and drive alone will carry you further than most. Also, the landscape for women in sports has recently began to change. We have women athletes every bit as dominant as their male counterparts, women referees in major sports, and I would not be surprised if their were women scouts in the MLB. If it is your dream, you owe it to yourself to go for it!

First, the advice is great and thank you! Will definately not give up and it is nice to see people so positive and supporting. You and Hero both.

Second, crap!!!!! I had not thought about that the animations totally have to be connected as if you had API on and played on say Rookie level it would look totally stupid to have the catcher physically calling (animation) one thing and the visual icons saying something else.

In a second I will quickly test it. Practice mode will work for this. Then make a solid list of what The Show uses as pitch calling. I am embareassed that I did not realise this was so easy to do. Can find out what every animation means without any doubt! Since the API exists then of course the catcher is calling pitches.

Since they do not hide signals when runners are on second. I am sure of this as animations are never multiple calls, the list will be simple. The API never places balls beyond the black(to my knowledge) but pitch counts can confirm if the catcher wants some in zone and some out of it.

Give me a few hours as I want the sample size to be several hundred pitches.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

First, the advice is great and thank you! Will definately not give up and it is nice to see people so positive and supporting. You and Hero both.

Second, crap!!!!! I had not thought about that the animations totally have to be connected as if you had API on and played on say Rookie level it would look totally stupid to have the catcher physically calling (animation) one thing and the visual icons saying something else.

In a second I will quickly test it. Practice mode will work for this. Then make a solid list of what The Show uses as pitch calling. I am embareassed that I did not realise this was so easy to do. Can find out what every animation means without any doubt! Since the API exists then of course the catcher is calling pitches.

Since they do not hide signals when runners are on second. I am sure of this as animations are never multiple calls, the list will be simple. The API never places balls beyond the black(to my knowledge) but pitch counts can confirm if the catcher wants some in zone and some out of it.

Give me a few hours as I want the sample size to be several hundred pitches.

Nice. Keep us posted.

The API will call for balls off the plate this year. I think it has for awhile but it seems to me they've increased its likelihood for 15. A few years ago, if I recall correctly, it didn't happen at all.

[bcruise]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

Nice. Keep us posted.

The API will call for balls off the plate this year. I think it has for awhile but it seems to me they've increased its likelihood for 15. A few years ago, if I recall correctly, it didn't happen at all.

Yeah, I think this is just an on-screen extension of how the game's pitching AI strategy operates this year as opposed to previous ones. It's no accident that I've seen a lot more 2-0's and 1-1's than 0-2's this year - the CPU definitely nibbles a lot more this time around. And API probably uses that same logic.

[Jr.]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

Catching up a bit as there has been a lot of action since my last post.

Quick question, is there any way to turn off the catcher's mitt while on Dynamic Difficulty? I hate that it shows up, but I've never seen an option to have it off, but API still on. I want the catcher to give signs, I just don't want that glove to show up.

Back to my first post, about throwing pitches in the zone and a higher likelihood of "hitting" the spot.. is it that you're hitting the exact location, or that you're considering "hitting the spot" as throwing a strike?

Again, if you're aiming inside the strike zone, the amount of error that can occur and still be a strike is larger than if you're aiming on the corners/edge of the zone. On the edge, you may miss at the same rate as aiming in the zone, but you're throwing balls because that error is more likely to move the pitch out of the zone, rather than missing but still being in the strike zone.

Does that make sense?

Like others, I don't have anything but a few years of personal experience and observation. I just know that I pitch on the corners as much as possible and it doesn't seem like my pitchers are any less accurate, but the misses end up as balls more often (for obvious reasons).

Fantastic discussion, though.

I would almost guarantee the pitch call and location animations are linked with their respective pitches and calls, not simply random animations. One way to test it would be to turn on the API and note what the catcher calls and then hit R2 to actually see what he is calling for. At work so cannot do it myself, but I would be VERY surprised if the animations were not specific to pitch and location. I myself tend to not pay as much attention to the catcher as I probably should, I try to play very fast paced games though with fast play on to get through a couple seasons, but the little bit I have paid attention they seem to be realistic to me.

On the catcher's signs, they are linked to the pitches. So 1 is the X pitch, 2 is O, 3 is Triangle, 4 is Square, and Wiggle (4 fingers slightly moving) is R1.

[bcruise]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

Catching up a bit as there has been a lot of action since my last post.

Quick question, is there any way to turn off the catcher's mitt while on Dynamic Difficulty? I hate that it shows up, but I've never seen an option to have it off, but API still on. I want the catcher to give signs, I just don't want that glove to show up.

Back to my first post, about throwing pitches in the zone and a higher likelihood of "hitting" the spot.. is it that you're hitting the exact location, or that you're considering "hitting the spot" as throwing a strike?

Again, if you're aiming inside the strike zone, the amount of error that can occur and still be a strike is larger than if you're aiming on the corners/edge of the zone. On the edge, you may miss at the same rate as aiming in the zone, but you're throwing balls because that error is more likely to move the pitch out of the zone, rather than missing but still being in the strike zone.

Does that make sense?

Like others, I don't have anything but a few years of personal experience and observation. I just know that I pitch on the corners as much as possible and it doesn't seem like my pitchers are any less accurate, but the misses end up as balls more often (for obvious reasons).

Fantastic discussion, though.

On the catcher's mitt/API question, turning it to default will turn the mitt and highlighted pitch off IF you're at All-Star pitching difficulty level or above on Dynamic. There's no other way around that if you're on Veteran+ or lower, but if you're pitching from a behind-the-pitcher view you can turn API off completely and still read the catcher's hand signals for what pitch it's calling. Personally, this is the route I'd take if you still want the catcher to call the game, but don't want an exact target.


As for the rest, I'd say I agree with your line of thinking - that mistake pitches still happen no matter where the pitch is aimed, but the effect is amplified when the miss occurs on a pitch that is aimed nearer to the heart of the plate. If you aim further outside, a bad accuracy pitch is much less likely to be hung over the middle and potentially get hit hard.

No matter which method of pitching I'm using, that fact ALWAYS plays into my pitch selection and strategy.

[Jr.]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

On the catcher's mitt/API question, turning it to default will turn the mitt and highlighted pitch off IF you're at All-Star pitching difficulty level or above on Dynamic. There's no other way around that if you're on Veteran+ or lower, but if you're pitching from a behind-the-pitcher view you can turn API off completely and still read the catcher's hand signals for what pitch it's calling. Personally, this is the route I'd take if you still want the catcher to call the game, but don't want an exact target.


As for the rest, I'd say I agree with your line of thinking - that mistake pitches still happen no matter where the pitch is aimed, but the effect is amplified when the miss occurs on a pitch that is aimed nearer to the heart of the plate. If you aim further outside, a bad accuracy pitch is much less likely to be hung over the middle and potentially get hit hard.

No matter which method of pitching I'm using, that fact ALWAYS plays into my pitch selection and strategy.

Thank you much for that info. For some reason I was of the idea that when you turned that API off, the catcher stopped giving signs, so I never even tried it.

And we're the same in that line of thinking of pitch location.

[SpritePuck]

Re: Classic Pitching Questions and Discussion Thread 2015

I play with All-Star with Armor&Swords sliders API off but still use catchers signs.

Here is my understanding of reading catchers signs. You can do this with API off and have them call your game. You will need to somewhat pick your spots but the catcher often gives you a side or lets you know if he wants it up in the zone.

Using API to confirm pitch signs I have found the following. I used Ten different top pitchers with different pitches and number of pitches in practice mode to test this:
They each faced 9 batters twice, for 18 batters total. For total of 180 batters faced. I should have counted pitches but did not. Tried to go big counts though.
Difficulty:
ALL-STAR
API set ON - to see what the sign went with

Pitchers used:

Kershaw
Lester
Price
Bumgarner
Kluber
Wainwright
Cueto
Lackey (sorry a huge Sox fan, I know he is old and not an ace anymore)
Kimbrel
Chapman

Things to note:
Never did I receive a flashed four for a pitcher that only has four pitches.
Never did I receive a break call for a pitch with wrong or no break.
Never did I receive a thigh tap but API placement on wrong side.
Never did I receive a sign for one number when API asked for another.
Never did a standard four sign by catcher indicate the #5 R1 pitch API flash.

Catching signs for calling pitches:

1 finger = X
2 fingers = O
3 fingers = △
4 fingers = ▢
* Flashed 4 = R1
** closed clenched fist = hard fastball (only one I am not 100% sure of)

* He wiggles them quick and then holds four. In game it is not mistakeable!
In softball we call it a flashed sign (may have an official baseball name). We recently started calling it twinkle fingers. Cause from the rubber it looks like a star twinkle. Partially from tape on fingers, which is there to ensure pitcher sees fingers. A 2 thrown when a 3 is called for is not only possibly a huge hit but also very tough to catch.

** About closed/clenched fist
The closed fist has yet for me to occur *in practice. In game it seems to come in fastball counts. Two thoughts occur, it is either a glitch, which I doubt, or a hard fastball. I did for a while think #5 R1 was a possibility but I have since received the sign with a closer that has only three pitches. Thus my guess is it means bring the gas laddy! *But since I never have had it with API displayed I am guessing. I have ruled it out as #5 as that for me has always been a flashed four, plus the closer with only three pitches received it.

Locations:
The quick explanation of how catchers call in The Show
Last place touched is side wanted.
Knee is out of zone.
Thigh is in the zone.

listed somewhat in order of most occurring here they are:

- Sign held long and fades down is standard pitch call.
Could be anywhere.
This is the standard pitch sign.

- Quick sign
Up in the zone. Top third of strike zone or out of zone up.
It is very much noticeably faster than other signs. Most often the 1 but sometimes other numbers. Sign quick motion down then he sets. No indication of where he wants it left or right wise, just up. Could be up and in or up and out. Seems count determined and batter hot zone may also be taken into account as to if inside or out.
*all pitches wanted up in the zone do not get a quick sign but all quick signs are wanted up in the zone. I hope that makes sense

The more specific more rare signs:
Some pitchers get these more than others and which are most common varies by pitcher. Lefties with Cutters get thigh taps a ton to direction of the break.

- Sign with a non glove leg squeeze (move) in toward hand, he kinda taps the thigh with sign (can tell with multiple finger signs he touches thigh, with one it looks like just leg movement)- *right leg as all catchers have glove on left hand
in zone non glove side
* his right leg, so your left zone
(sometimes this means pitch must be started out of zone and break back in)
he kinda squeezes his legs in but non glove leg moves in way more than glove side... once you notice it, you will not miss it!

- Sign then thigh
in zone thigh side that is tapped
(again could mean start out of zone to get pitch in zone on side called for)

- Sign then knee then same side thigh
start out of zone and break back in on side tapped
(like a backdoor slider)

- Sign then thigh then other thigh
break across the plate but stay in zone toward *second indication
* the second thigh he tapped

- Sign then knee then opposite thigh
start out of zone and break in toward thigh tap side
(sweeping curve mostly is all that works with this, everything else ends fairly middle zone, the call is very rare)

- Sign then knee
out of zone knee side (a chase pitch)

- Sign thigh then knee
start thigh side and break out knee side

Note guys with 2seamers and sinkers for X the #1 pitch sometimes the API wants it up in the zone, so the catcher calls for them. I believe this is an error as the number one pitch is usually a 4 seam fastball. I would never throw any 2seam pitch up there unless it has more horizontal movement and is breaking out of the zone. Actually, I just would never do it. A 2seamer up in the zone is a souvenir for some fan with bleacher seats.

I was extremely happy to learn the catchers use a standard pitch calling system that is used by USA Junior softball and I assume baseball. Kinda cool how much is in this game and how accurate they made it. I truly believe you could learn the mental side of baseball from The Show. Of course the muscle memory may not be quite so easy.

As George V. Higgins once penned,
"The seductiveness of baseball is that almost everyone with an abiding interest in it knows exactly how it should be played. And secretly believes that he could do it, if only God had seen fit to make him just a little bit less clumsy."