Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

[miamikb2001]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Hey Nomo, I used your sliders last year in my MoM franchise for all 162 games. I put together a spreadsheet with all the stats that my players had over the season if you want it. No idea how relevant it would be, but I'd thought I'd offer it.



One thing that I noticed throughout the entire season in 2016 was an over reliance on Fastballs if a pitcher had it as their "X" pitch. This problem was compound even further when they would have a 4SFB as their "X" and a 2SFB as their "O". This would lead to pitchers essentially not wanting to throw their breaking balls and off speed pitches. I noticed this the most with Sonny Gray where he would not want to throw his CB or SL. Gray would throw his FB (4SFB and 2SFB) over 75% of all pitches.



I may have negated this effect a bit by swapping their "X" and "O" pitches to make sure a breaking pitch was their "X" pitch. I didn't do it for Gray, but I did for Kluber who had a similar problem. I made his "X" pitch a Slurve and "O" pitch a 4SFB. This led to Kluber relying on his Slurve more often, but not too much. There were games where he threw more Slurves than 4SFB, but Kluber made it up by throwing 2SFB as well. Essentially, it upped Kluber's Slurve up to real life usage %. It did not do it for every breaking ball and off speed pitch, but it did curb the high usage % of FBs.



Just some thoughts.

Big stat geek here lol!I would love to see your numbers for that season.


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[statdude]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Big stat geek here lol!I would love to see your numbers for that season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9g5453rklr...heet.xlsx?dl=0

As a note, I ended up doing a Fantasy Draft Franchise and I played with the Angels. All stats from the Angels were done in MoM apart from Liriano. He came over in a Trade Deadline deal. Also, the wRC+ formula was created with the idea that the sim engine used Park Factors. I recently have learned that they do not, but I haven't gone into changing them over. So once again, only the Angels have a correct wRC+. Other than that, wOBA for all players should be accurate as I used the basic wOBA scale from FanGraphs.

For the simulated games, I used Nomo's slider set with the SP/RP Stamina and CPU Manager Hook adjusted from Mike Lowe's recommendation to limit SP complete games.

Edit 1: Also, this was with the Hybrid Roster set from last year.
Edit 2: I forgot, but Mike Trout and Buster Posey both accomplished the Triple Crown in their respective leagues

[Aensland]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Hey Nomo, glad to see you're backing testing CPU vs. CPU. Been doing a little testing myself. It only covers 15 games, which is a small sample, but better than nothing, I suppose. Starting pitching rotation is rotated every game so 1-5 pitches. Slider settings are similar to yours with a few minor changes:

Contact 7
Power 3
Control 3
Consistency 7
Fastball Pitch Speed 10
Offspeed Pitch Speed 10
Fielding Errors Infield 8
Fielding Errors Outfield 6
Throwing Errors Outfield 8
Fielder Run Speed 3
Fielder Reaction 3
Fielder Arm Strength Infield 3
Fielder Arm Strength Outfield 3
Baserunner Steal Ability 10
Wind 0

Results were:

4.8 R per game
1.9 2B per game
0.1 3B per game
1.0 HR per game
0.5 SB per game
2.7 BB per game
7.3 K per game
0.8 GIDP per game
0.3 E per game

-Games tend to be tight and low scoring when 1-2 starters are pitching, and a couple blowouts happened on 4-5 starters, which looks encouraging.

-Home Run total surprised me TBH; I was expecting the HR per game avg. to be a lot higher, despite the nerf in slider settings. I even had one 14-10 slugfest where 9 homers were hit total. But that was followed with a 6-0 no-hitter game (go figure).

-Longest homer hit was 462ft by Josh Donaldson. I remember on default settings mid to lower HR power guys were flirting with 500ft bombs. Of course, guys like Brett Gardner could hit a 480ft bomb in the very next game.

-Very few errors.

-The inflated HR talks have been perhaps the biggest talk so far, but after a few games, I think the wild pitches are a bigger concern. I failed to record the number of WP but do remember they happen in just about every game, including one (Rockies vs. Brewers) where 5 were thrown. It appears just about any off-speed pitch in the dirt allows baserunners to advance. Not sure if fielder reaction time slider has any effect on that.

-Also forgot to mention, the CPU manager tends to pull the starting pitcher out too soon. There's been at least three games where the pitcher didn't give up a run and was still replaced in the 7th inning.

-CPU also replaces relievers too quickly. ex: CP Wade Davis allowed two base runners and the CPU didnt let him close the game out.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Loving that your back at Nomo.Definately agree WP are an issue no game killer but it'd be nice to get it lower for sure.Been working set and getting good results but i will definately do some testing with your's to see how they compare.

I'm actually not optimistic about this wild pitch issue being solvable by sliders adjustment at this point. It does not appear Pitcher Consistency slider has a strong enough effect on the wild pitch frequency, even at 10 now. For that matter the effect isn't showing up in hit-by-pitch either... WPs and HBPs aren't that frequent of events that the numbers might have not been stabilized, but if after 50 - 60 games and still don't see the result you expect... it's either that the slider isn't effective enough or something else is not quit right.

This should probably mentioned as a wishlist item for a patch...

I notice that a lot of the WP's are just balls in the dirt in front of the catcher or balls that don't roll very far and in real life a base runner would not run try to advance on... or be gunned down if they tried but, in this game, the runners are attempting to advance on almost all balls blocked in front of or around the catcher and are easily successful.

I know It would probably have effects on other aspects of the game but would base runner speed affect this problem area of the game???
Lower base runner spread my make the runner less apt to attempt to advance on these types of close to the catcher situation perhaps???

I would not want to use Runner Speed slider just to correct situation like this. It will have too much of other (unwanted) side effects.

But may be what's discussed in this thread is true:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...alls-dirt.html

and also runners probably take off too often on wild pitches.

But I actually suspect something really isn't working as intended on catcher's effectiveness on blocking pitches in the dirt. I wonder if the issue gets better if the Block attribute rating are set higher. If not, there might be a bug or something.

[miamikb2001]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

I'm actually not optimistic about this wild pitch issue being solvable by sliders adjustment at this point. It does not appear Pitcher Consistency slider has a strong enough effect on the wild pitch frequency, even at 10 now. For that matter the effect isn't showing up in hit-by-pitch either... WPs and HBPs aren't that frequent of events that the numbers might have not been stabilized, but if after 50 - 60 games and still don't see the result you expect... it's either that the slider isn't effective enough or something else is not quit right.



This should probably mentioned as a wishlist item for a patch...











I would not want to use Runner Speed slider just to correct situation like this. It will have too much of other (unwanted) side effects.



But may be what's discussed in this thread is true:



http://www.operationsports.com/forum...alls-dirt.html



and also runners probably take off too often on wild pitches.



But I actually suspect something really isn't working as intended on catcher's effectiveness on blocking pitches in the dirt. I wonder if the issue gets better if the Block attribute rating are set higher. If not, there might be a bug or something.

I agree and believe the wild pitch is definately something that hopefully can be patched.I have had games where it wasn't bad and also games like last night where i had 5 and it cost me the game Test chise but still lol


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[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Looking back at the first set I ran through I used your error sliders from last year.

Fld Errors In: 9
Fld Errors Out: 3
Thr Errors In: 5
Thr Errors Out :8

23 Games in committed 24 Errors (0.52) not bad. I did not check the replay vault on all of these but I did on a bunch. Most were of the infield ground ball variety which is good. Anyway just wanted to throw this your way if you hadn't checked the fielding sliders from last year on this years game.

So you do actually see infielders making errors on routine grounders and such?

I've jacked up Fielding Error for infielders to 10 since I'm not getting realistic amount of fielding errors yet... and I'm actually wondering if the slider is working properly. I've seen quite a few foul flies dropped by infielders in my current set (4/5), but I actually don't know I've seen typical fielding errors on grounders which I usually start seeing when I increase the slider.

I still need to increase the sample size to convince myself, but I don't exclude some possibility that something funky is going on on fielding (excessive wild pitches, infielders not making that many errors if true...).

I'm still hoping I'd be proven wrong though.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Hey Nomo, I used your sliders last year in my MoM franchise for all 162 games. I put together a spreadsheet with all the stats that my players had over the season if you want it. No idea how relevant it would be, but I'd thought I'd offer it.

That kinda things is always interesting to look at so please feel free to share... I ran all 4860 (162 * 30) games of CPU vs. CPU a couple years ago... the numbers were interesting to say the least.

One thing that I noticed throughout the entire season in 2016 was an over reliance on Fastballs if a pitcher had it as their "X" pitch. This problem was compound even further when they would have a 4SFB as their "X" and a 2SFB as their "O". This would lead to pitchers essentially not wanting to throw their breaking balls and off speed pitches. I noticed this the most with Sonny Gray where he would not want to throw his CB or SL. Gray would throw his FB (4SFB and 2SFB) over 75% of all pitches.

I may have negated this effect a bit by swapping their "X" and "O" pitches to make sure a breaking pitch was their "X" pitch. I didn't do it for Gray, but I did for Kluber who had a similar problem. I made his "X" pitch a Slurve and "O" pitch a 4SFB. This led to Kluber relying on his Slurve more often, but not too much. There were games where he threw more Slurves than 4SFB, but Kluber made it up by throwing 2SFB as well. Essentially, it upped Kluber's Slurve up to real life usage %. It did not do it for every breaking ball and off speed pitch, but it did curb the high usage % of FBs.

Just some thoughts.

Yeah I think the game doesn't really have a mechanism to make pitchers throw pitch types at correct/real-life %s... Solely in view of frequency of pitches used, I think your approach may be the only way, to bring more frequently used pitches higher in the order of available pitches. But non-fastball types are still used less often regardless of the "primary" assignment. I wish there is some more granularity in affecting how CPU pitchers use their repertoire.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9g5453rklr...heet.xlsx?dl=0

It's interesting Kluber walked so few batters given he has a big curveball... especially if you tried to made him throw it more. I tend to find pitchers with curveball walk more in this game, since curveball is one of the toughest (if not toughest) to command in the game... I think the game kinda struggles to simulate pitchers with very high and low BB%.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Hey Nomo, glad to see you're backing testing CPU vs. CPU. Been doing a little testing myself. It only covers 15 games, which is a small sample, but better than nothing, I suppose. Starting pitching rotation is rotated every game so 1-5 pitches. Slider settings are similar to yours with a few minor changes:

...

Thanks for sharing the numbers. Always good to know what others are seeing to put things in perspective.

-Very few errors.

-The inflated HR talks have been perhaps the biggest talk so far, but after a few games, I think the wild pitches are a bigger concern. I failed to record the number of WP but do remember they happen in just about every game, including one (Rockies vs. Brewers) where 5 were thrown. It appears just about any off-speed pitch in the dirt allows baserunners to advance. Not sure if fielder reaction time slider has any effect on that.

...

I do think wild pitch will be the most nagging issue, especially because there doesn't seem to be a way to bring them down to a realistic level simply with slider adjustments so far.

I think HR distance (or more precisely, overly exaggerated hang time) is an issue, but I don't know if the developers decide it's something that should be patched (I hope it gets looked at...). But at least we can bring down the HR frequency to a realistic level with sliders (even if HR distance are not realistic).

I'm also curious if people are seeing fielding errors in the infield. I somehow haven't seen them as often as I normally do, especially when the Fielding Error slider is maxed out.

[My993C2]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

I'm also curious if people are seeing fielding errors in the infield. I somehow haven't seen them as often as I normally do, especially when the Fielding Error slider is maxed out.

Fielding infield errors are definitely down. I am only 5 days into my MoM season (I am one day ahead of the real world calendar), and so far every game on the calendar besides my 4 MoM games has been a Fast Play CPU vs CPU with QCs enabled game. Now I have not watched every one of these other CPU vs CPU games (I did watch a few to ensure the game play was somewhat realistic), but I have done a quick look at the box scores of every one of these other games once they are completed looking at runs, hits, base on balls, strike outs, who stole a base, who got caught stealing and yes errors to see if the results of my CPU vs CPU games fall within the same results one might see in a real world game. Now of course the results are mixed. Some games produce high numbers and other games lower numbers. But for sure the number of errors are down.

Regarding the wild pitches and passed balls. I am still seeing about the same number of rogue pitches, but I believe I am seeing less bases being taken since I upped the Pitcher Consistency a few clicks. Example, in my MoM game last night, one of my pitchers threw the ball into the dirt and my immediate reaction was "#### the base runner on 1st will now be on 2nd". But low and behold, the base runner (a moderately fast runner) did not take the bag. Perhaps it was just an placebo effect. Perhaps next time the base runner will take the base like all the other ones prior to changing the slider.

Finally, I don't believe there is a slider setting for this. But another problem area that seems to effect MoM games (not sure about CPU vs CPU games) is the base runner either ignoring the 3B coach or the 3B coach giving the base runner bad advice. But I am seeing more guys being thrown at home plate on plays that are not even close than I have in previous years.

Don't get me wrong, I am still loving the game. But there might be three problem areas of the game.

1) Bases taken on wild pitches and passed balls.
2) Lower number of infield errors.
3) High number of outs at home plate on plays where the runner should have held up.

Some other people also say the high number of HRs is a problem. But the funny thing is, yesterday I saw an article about how the number of HRs in the real world was up in 2016.

[tgreer]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

I agree with the 3 "problems". Noticing less errors on the infield as well but not to the degree you guys are. Maybe at Fielder Error IF set at 9 or 10 it will come up close to avg for you guys over time. Noticed right off the bat there were too many outs at home. When i changed Arm Strength IF and OF to 4 for awhile it seemed to help some. IMO 4 Arm Strength plays out better then 5. You will see a few more IF hits (helps batting avg. as well) and the relays from the OF are not as crisp or fast. It is good to be able to bounce ideas back and forth to you guys. Lets get this thing "nailed" down so we can PLAY BALL

[Aensland]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

3) High number of outs at home plate on plays where the runner should have held up.

Been noticing that myself but wasn't sure whether to mention since my testing was such a small sample. It was actually one of the reasons I lowered OF arm strength to 3 as well. Despite the adjustment, runners are still being thrown out at home. Looks to be more of an issue where baserunners are too aggressive as opposed to OF arm strength. It's killed rallies on several occasions, which hurts an already often struggling CPU offense.

[My993C2]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

Been noticing that myself but wasn't sure whether to mention since my testing was such a small sample. It was actually one of the reasons I lowered OF arm strength to 3 as well. Despite the adjustment, runners are still being thrown out at home. Looks to be more of an issue where baserunners are too aggressive as opposed to OF arm strength. It's killed rallies on several occasions, which hurts an already often struggling CPU offense.

When the base runner is out by a step or two, that is fine. It happens in the real world games all the time. I renewed my MLB.TV membership and have been watching real world games all week and there has been plenty of guys thrown out at the plate. But the problem with this game is when you can count several seconds after the catcher has the ball and before the tag is made to know something is wrong and I suspect only a patch in the code will fix it because the runners are not stopping at 3B when they should be stopped. Unfortunately I can't see it being addressed this year. But the game maker has fixed a number of MoM and CPU vs CPU issues from previous years. So I guess all we can do is make sure the game makers are aware of the problem and cross our fingers than it gets fixed at some point in time.

It's a great game. But it still has some warts.

[forme95]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

I'm actually not optimistic about this wild pitch issue being solvable by sliders adjustment at this point. It does not appear Pitcher Consistency slider has a strong enough effect on the wild pitch frequency, even at 10 now. For that matter the effect isn't showing up in hit-by-pitch either... WPs and HBPs aren't that frequent of events that the numbers might have not been stabilized, but if after 50 - 60 games and still don't see the result you expect... it's either that the slider isn't effective enough or something else is not quit right.

This should probably mentioned as a wishlist item for a patch...





I would not want to use Runner Speed slider just to correct situation like this. It will have too much of other (unwanted) side effects.

But may be what's discussed in this thread is true:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...alls-dirt.html

and also runners probably take off too often on wild pitches.

But I actually suspect something really isn't working as intended on catcher's effectiveness on blocking pitches in the dirt. I wonder if the issue gets better if the Block attribute rating are set higher. If not, there might be a bug or something.

I just had a "WP", a 20 speed runner on 1st and the ball literally drops on the plate and the guy makes it to 2nd.

I wonder if lowering infield errors may help, if upping consistancy doesnt help it?

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 17 Version]

I just had a "WP", a 20 speed runner on 1st and the ball literally drops on the plate and the guy makes it to 2nd.

I wonder if lowering infield errors may help, if upping consistancy doesnt help it?

As far as I know, only Pitcher Consistency slider is effective in controlling WPs (and HPBs for that matter). Blocking attribute could be edited as well, but that's something of last resort if you are into editing...

I don't think fielding sliders/attributes have anything to do with wild pitches (not that they shouldn't, but I haven't seen enough evidence that they do).